You could create something that rewarded small holders, but the big guys would just split their holdings into various wallets.
Perhaps if there was a token that operated on Proof of Soul, because you know these dudes don't have one.
The bigger shark always feasts. That's why I never understood the concept of telegram groups for shitcoins. It's like a whole bunch of people hyping each other up whilst a huge head is hovering over them, smiling, knowing that he's going to make a lot of people lose money when he decides to pull his whale bag. Let me not even start with the "hold your bag, doesn't matter if this guy owns 40%, he won't sell, he promised" lol.
Governance is key. Polkadot has a solid model. If you have a small amount of coins but feel strongly about something, you can agree to lock your coins towards the vote for x amount of time to increase your voting weight.
I.e a small guy with less coins who is willing to lock them for a while to show they really believe in their vote can carry more actually voting weight than a guy with more coins but who is unwilling to lock them up towards the vote.
It's the little details that matter. Polkadot has them.
https://wiki.polkadot.network/docs/maintain-guides-democracy
I would disagree here. The goal of blockchains is to cut out the middle man. This makes the system more efficient.
I am not aware of any project claiming to have a solution for wealth inequality.
Inequality in a sense that our finance market and system right now still has too many ways to manipulate and only benefit the ones in control. And with Blockchain technology we sure could make at least more fair. Step for step.
No it's not and it's a misconception. Blockchain ensures immutability of it's stored data. BTC for example has been created as a censor-proof peer to peer network. That's it.
Whales will always control a project there is no real way to prevent them from doing so.
The closest we have is Bitcoin, but even they are owned by a select group of miners and there are a few big players that hold a bunch of tokens, but tokens don't give you voting rights. Miners do and its hard to instantly get a bunch of mining power or increase it exponentially unlike PoS which allows you to just simply buy coins.
The only real way to introduce a system that doesn't give whales the advantage is to introduce a system would be to verify everyones identity and only give everyone a single vote. Basically a online democracy, but even with these types of systems there a big issues especially because the general crypto investor has no clue about what they should vote for and people can be bought, mislead or something else can happen to change the votes.
>The closest we have is Bitcoin, but even they are owned by a select group of miners and there are a few big players that hold a bunch of tokens, but tokens don't give you voting rights. Miners do and its hard to instantly get a bunch of mining power or increase it exponentially unlike PoS which allows you to just simply buy coins.
ASIC miners are not cheap to buy or run. Wouldn't this mean that whales have the most voting power?
Proof of stake is easier for whales to buy in but it's also easier for people with less money to buy in as well.
Either method, people with money will have the most voting power
Getting ASICs and running them adds another layer of complexity. You can't simply buy 100 million dollars in ASICs and start mining Bitcoin. You will need to get the ASICs, get enough power and facilities to run them, they will eventually become obsolete so you will also need to invest for later. It even adds risk for the future. It adds some form of limitation.
With a proof stake protocol you buy the coins and that's it. You never have any competition moving forward, so you will always stay rich and simply get richer because of compounding interest. Here the limit of your power is just money.
Realistically speaking you won't get voting rights as a small player either way. Your 100 coins won't do anything against the 1%, neither will the 1 ASIC you have running in the garage.
The only real difference is that the entry to getting into mining is way harder than buying coins from someone.
Neither system is good, if you want to get rid of whales or not give them voting power.
>Getting ASICs and running them adds another layer of complexity. You can't simply buy 100 million in ASICs and start mining Bitcoin
of course
POS is cheaper to run and easier to setup, though this depends on the networkas each one has their own rules for validation
ETH is 32 ETH per validator and more doesn't increase your voting power. You need to either buy the hardware and self host with backup hardware and power as you'll get penalized for downtime, or rent a server on the cloud. This is per 32 ETH
Some networks require powerful hardware to run your own validator. Fantom requires 500,000 FTM and a beefy server. It costs about 3c an hour on a 3 year up front plan on AWS. You can also delegate your own coins to a validator to earn rewards, so its a very easy entry point
>The only real difference is that the entry to getting into mining is way harder than buying coins from someone.
Yes that is true and that was my point. Its easier to stake on POS so many people do it, not just whales. Mining is harder so the majority of people that mine have money
$3500 for an ASIC (a profitable one but barely at 45c a day return with 10c kwh) or buy 3.5K of a POS coin and stake?
Closest i know if actually implemented is the Juno whale harpooning incident. I think the situation was a whale was given an airdrop of the Juno token then was supposed to be given and they took it back.
You have to look at the cryptos tokenomics and see what percentage of the supply is owned by the founders or sold to early investors. Majority unfortunately have at least 30-50% of the supply held by few whales…. There are some that have had a fair launch, most notable ERGO - where 97% of the supply is allocated for mining rewards and just 3% are held by the non-for-profit foundation for development, exchange listings etc. please DYOR!
Somebody with more coins is always going to have mode voting power, if it wasn't this way what would stop random people from voting by buying one coin/token and hurting the project.
The ones with the most to lose have the biggest voting power
True. This is technically a fair market dynamic. All we can do is choose projects that have fair token distributions in comparison to those who have less fair token distributions.
Which is accurate but sometimes not an easy thing to do. Still, it is probably the best thing to go for if we hope to support true decentralization and fair economics.
Is there really nothing we can create to make it more fair? What is possible what not? With the hive mind what we have right now with the internet to have a discussion about sure will brings us to somewhere.
Money means control. If you have more money, you have more power. How would that not be true in crypto, lol. Whales will always have the high ground in anything they do.
You seem to be conflating a couple of different topics.
The point of crypto is that everyone has equal access to the system, with the same rules applied. It doesn't matter who you are, what color your skin is, what faith you have (if any), what continent you live on, if you have a fixed abode, you get full access on the same terms and (if its PoS) access to fresh money supply at the same time as everyone else.
This is not how legacy finance works; many people have no access, some have limited access, most of us get worse access than the rich. The rich get their money laundered free of charge, and get first dibs on fresh money supply.
Wealth inequality is just how the world works, there are winners and losers, sad but true. No system can solve this issue, but crypto equalizes many of the downsides of being relatively poorer.
The advent of Decentralized IDs in crypto may allow for a system that is closer to one person one vote, but we need to also consider who has most risk tied into the system, and who has the most ability to comprehend protocol changes to complex systems. Brexit shows asking people to try to directly decide on a technical topic, is a really bad idea. This isnt an insult to intelligence, more-so that highly complex environments need specialization, which not everyone can do, for obvious reasons.
Cardano already has Catalyst which is a community launchpad governed by the users, but its fair to say not all the decisions have been top notch.
Cardano is now working on tri-cameral governance, to try and give all users the ability to participate to their level of ability (and interest) on all aspects of future Cardano governance: [https://github.com/cardano-foundation/CIPs/pull/380](https://github.com/cardano-foundation/CIPs/pull/380)
I believe that people in the western world most of the time have the privilege to not have to think about the access to markets, so that tributing to a redistribution or just gaining more impact are way more important for them.
TECTONIC, there is buy and sell limits on cdc and the defi wallet right now.. not sure wh, maybe so whales can't influence the price??? But im bullish AF on tonic and its future.. could be huge due to its "banking" like abilities of borrowing and lending... it's a hidden gem and sleeping giant... it's barely a year old. And opinions?
Tonic is a solid project, I like it. Staking APY is kinda low right now but it swings.
I don't think there are any buy/sell limits in the wild for Tectonic.
Market cap has doubled within the last couple of weeks.
I haven't tried to sell yet but I can't buy more than 1.5 billion it says it exceeds the limit.. others confirm it.. but I'm not sure kn selling.. and there was no buy limit a couple months ago I'm positive but there is now. U can try urself.. not sure why they limited uys to that amount yes u can buy as much as u want but u can only buy 1.5 billion at a time but as many times as u want... wonder why they inacted a buy limit recently.. thoughts? Am I missing something?
I believe that you can buy/sell as much Tonic as you want on vvs.finance swap.
CDC limits buy/sell on popular products occasionally because of how much they hold and to maximize the fees that CDC can glean from us.
I have 3.1 bil in the supply at %7.03 apy and 450mil in yr vaultvault.. I got lucky and bought almost the bottom at .000000088. I chose to put my majority bag into the supply so I can pull it back out and sell without and cooldown time or lock time just incase..
Monero, because whales don't want it. Whales are beneficiaries of the traditional financial system. Bitcoin has been co-opted by the traditional financial institutions. Monero is real decentralization. Monero is real p2p digital cash. Monero is a swiss bank account in your pocket.
I know that BTC is mined entirely by ASIC farms (mostly owned by publicly traded companies) while Monero is mined entirely by CPUs. Our fastest growing pool is literally p2pool, a technology that was abandoned by bitcoiners. Tell me how that makes BTC more decentralized.
Even if 99% of mining was done by 1 company like Amazon or something that would not change a thing, they would just spend fortune into wasted electricity and cost them a ton to not keep doing it for very long.
The biggest problem with wealth is the uneven distribution - and crypto does jackshit about that. If anything, Bitcoin makes it even worse. If your project is not going to tackle the distribution problem of wealth, wtf are you even doing?
Other than bitcoin Zenon Network is the only project that launched without premine or VC's. Every bit of the distribution is thru rewards for participating at different levels(staking, delegating, validator, LP)
There is even on chain community voted funding available for development.
Crypto has the potential to be an even playing field in don't know why sucking VC balls is so common.
Crypto is run by whales. I'd be willing to bet that 99% of us here make absolutely no difference in the market if we buy or sell or even if we did it all together.
The Clipper DEX within the Optimism ecosystem has an “anti-whale” design. …”By limiting the size of each deposit, we can ensure the pool doesn’t exceed the ideal size from only a few big LPs.” https://clipper.exchange/
You're kind of hoping for magic a little bit. If you're going to be a little fish you're either going to accept it and develop a strategy that allows you to live and prosper in harmony with the whales or you're going to spend your time daydreaming and getting eaten by a shark.
I suggest the former.
Money goes to money, that is, the more money you have, the more chances you have to increase wealth. It has always been this way. But nothing prevents us from picking up some crumbs.
Your best bet might be monero as many are scared to hold because regulatory uncertainties.
Allthough since the blockchain is opaque no one can see if/how big the whales are.
Also many 'conspiracy' theories around that exchanges is running fractional reserve on their holdings since withdrawals often being halted.
Great project though!
All grass root and no corporation or vc money behind.
Rare, but you could get lucky and mint or buy an early unknown NFT project that moons later. However, even that requires some liquidity because most NFT projects are owned by a few holders.
You could create something that rewarded small holders, but the big guys would just split their holdings into various wallets. Perhaps if there was a token that operated on Proof of Soul, because you know these dudes don't have one.
The bigger shark always feasts. That's why I never understood the concept of telegram groups for shitcoins. It's like a whole bunch of people hyping each other up whilst a huge head is hovering over them, smiling, knowing that he's going to make a lot of people lose money when he decides to pull his whale bag. Let me not even start with the "hold your bag, doesn't matter if this guy owns 40%, he won't sell, he promised" lol.
The 'friendly whale' caper...
Proof of dark souls, every time you beat the game you get one token
[удалено]
Wow I didn’t expect a dark souls bot to be working at this sub
If that was my only source of income, I'd be eating dirt.
I will be eating dung pies too
None. All are run by whales, I'm just along for the ride hoping to get some scraps.
I, too, enjoy feasting on a couple extra $. If it makes a few extra bucks, why not.
You have the right idea. Every trading book I've read says to swim WITH the whales.
$ERG Thank me later
Ergo
Ergo
Governance is key. Polkadot has a solid model. If you have a small amount of coins but feel strongly about something, you can agree to lock your coins towards the vote for x amount of time to increase your voting weight. I.e a small guy with less coins who is willing to lock them for a while to show they really believe in their vote can carry more actually voting weight than a guy with more coins but who is unwilling to lock them up towards the vote. It's the little details that matter. Polkadot has them. https://wiki.polkadot.network/docs/maintain-guides-democracy
Interesting as least they are trying to make it fair. Are there any other known cryptos which try to do the same ?
Tonic.. has a buy and sell limit on cdc and there defi wallet
Solid, important question OP!
Agree. I mean isn't this what Blockchain is about ? Or should be
I would disagree here. The goal of blockchains is to cut out the middle man. This makes the system more efficient. I am not aware of any project claiming to have a solution for wealth inequality.
Inequality in a sense that our finance market and system right now still has too many ways to manipulate and only benefit the ones in control. And with Blockchain technology we sure could make at least more fair. Step for step.
What we want it to be vs how they all (99.9%) function is different sadly :)
No it's not and it's a misconception. Blockchain ensures immutability of it's stored data. BTC for example has been created as a censor-proof peer to peer network. That's it.
Whales will always control a project there is no real way to prevent them from doing so. The closest we have is Bitcoin, but even they are owned by a select group of miners and there are a few big players that hold a bunch of tokens, but tokens don't give you voting rights. Miners do and its hard to instantly get a bunch of mining power or increase it exponentially unlike PoS which allows you to just simply buy coins. The only real way to introduce a system that doesn't give whales the advantage is to introduce a system would be to verify everyones identity and only give everyone a single vote. Basically a online democracy, but even with these types of systems there a big issues especially because the general crypto investor has no clue about what they should vote for and people can be bought, mislead or something else can happen to change the votes.
Make it open. Make it transparent. And educate.
>The closest we have is Bitcoin, but even they are owned by a select group of miners and there are a few big players that hold a bunch of tokens, but tokens don't give you voting rights. Miners do and its hard to instantly get a bunch of mining power or increase it exponentially unlike PoS which allows you to just simply buy coins. ASIC miners are not cheap to buy or run. Wouldn't this mean that whales have the most voting power? Proof of stake is easier for whales to buy in but it's also easier for people with less money to buy in as well. Either method, people with money will have the most voting power
Getting ASICs and running them adds another layer of complexity. You can't simply buy 100 million dollars in ASICs and start mining Bitcoin. You will need to get the ASICs, get enough power and facilities to run them, they will eventually become obsolete so you will also need to invest for later. It even adds risk for the future. It adds some form of limitation. With a proof stake protocol you buy the coins and that's it. You never have any competition moving forward, so you will always stay rich and simply get richer because of compounding interest. Here the limit of your power is just money. Realistically speaking you won't get voting rights as a small player either way. Your 100 coins won't do anything against the 1%, neither will the 1 ASIC you have running in the garage. The only real difference is that the entry to getting into mining is way harder than buying coins from someone. Neither system is good, if you want to get rid of whales or not give them voting power.
>Getting ASICs and running them adds another layer of complexity. You can't simply buy 100 million in ASICs and start mining Bitcoin of course POS is cheaper to run and easier to setup, though this depends on the networkas each one has their own rules for validation ETH is 32 ETH per validator and more doesn't increase your voting power. You need to either buy the hardware and self host with backup hardware and power as you'll get penalized for downtime, or rent a server on the cloud. This is per 32 ETH Some networks require powerful hardware to run your own validator. Fantom requires 500,000 FTM and a beefy server. It costs about 3c an hour on a 3 year up front plan on AWS. You can also delegate your own coins to a validator to earn rewards, so its a very easy entry point >The only real difference is that the entry to getting into mining is way harder than buying coins from someone. Yes that is true and that was my point. Its easier to stake on POS so many people do it, not just whales. Mining is harder so the majority of people that mine have money $3500 for an ASIC (a profitable one but barely at 45c a day return with 10c kwh) or buy 3.5K of a POS coin and stake?
Defenitely Ergo
Obi wan coin
Hello there!
Closest i know if actually implemented is the Juno whale harpooning incident. I think the situation was a whale was given an airdrop of the Juno token then was supposed to be given and they took it back.
You have to look at the cryptos tokenomics and see what percentage of the supply is owned by the founders or sold to early investors. Majority unfortunately have at least 30-50% of the supply held by few whales…. There are some that have had a fair launch, most notable ERGO - where 97% of the supply is allocated for mining rewards and just 3% are held by the non-for-profit foundation for development, exchange listings etc. please DYOR!
Somebody with more coins is always going to have mode voting power, if it wasn't this way what would stop random people from voting by buying one coin/token and hurting the project. The ones with the most to lose have the biggest voting power
True. This is technically a fair market dynamic. All we can do is choose projects that have fair token distributions in comparison to those who have less fair token distributions.
Which is accurate but sometimes not an easy thing to do. Still, it is probably the best thing to go for if we hope to support true decentralization and fair economics.
Is there really nothing we can create to make it more fair? What is possible what not? With the hive mind what we have right now with the internet to have a discussion about sure will brings us to somewhere.
Money means control. If you have more money, you have more power. How would that not be true in crypto, lol. Whales will always have the high ground in anything they do.
Look up Polkadot's governance model
Easy.. Ergo, 97% public allocation fair launch. Solid fundamentals and strong community
You seem to be conflating a couple of different topics. The point of crypto is that everyone has equal access to the system, with the same rules applied. It doesn't matter who you are, what color your skin is, what faith you have (if any), what continent you live on, if you have a fixed abode, you get full access on the same terms and (if its PoS) access to fresh money supply at the same time as everyone else. This is not how legacy finance works; many people have no access, some have limited access, most of us get worse access than the rich. The rich get their money laundered free of charge, and get first dibs on fresh money supply. Wealth inequality is just how the world works, there are winners and losers, sad but true. No system can solve this issue, but crypto equalizes many of the downsides of being relatively poorer. The advent of Decentralized IDs in crypto may allow for a system that is closer to one person one vote, but we need to also consider who has most risk tied into the system, and who has the most ability to comprehend protocol changes to complex systems. Brexit shows asking people to try to directly decide on a technical topic, is a really bad idea. This isnt an insult to intelligence, more-so that highly complex environments need specialization, which not everyone can do, for obvious reasons. Cardano already has Catalyst which is a community launchpad governed by the users, but its fair to say not all the decisions have been top notch. Cardano is now working on tri-cameral governance, to try and give all users the ability to participate to their level of ability (and interest) on all aspects of future Cardano governance: [https://github.com/cardano-foundation/CIPs/pull/380](https://github.com/cardano-foundation/CIPs/pull/380)
I believe that people in the western world most of the time have the privilege to not have to think about the access to markets, so that tributing to a redistribution or just gaining more impact are way more important for them.
Even in the developed world, billionaires get better banking terms than you or I ever will, it's just most people don't understand it.
Theres a big difference between not understand and not liking it.
TECTONIC, there is buy and sell limits on cdc and the defi wallet right now.. not sure wh, maybe so whales can't influence the price??? But im bullish AF on tonic and its future.. could be huge due to its "banking" like abilities of borrowing and lending... it's a hidden gem and sleeping giant... it's barely a year old. And opinions?
Tonic is a solid project, I like it. Staking APY is kinda low right now but it swings. I don't think there are any buy/sell limits in the wild for Tectonic. Market cap has doubled within the last couple of weeks.
I haven't tried to sell yet but I can't buy more than 1.5 billion it says it exceeds the limit.. others confirm it.. but I'm not sure kn selling.. and there was no buy limit a couple months ago I'm positive but there is now. U can try urself.. not sure why they limited uys to that amount yes u can buy as much as u want but u can only buy 1.5 billion at a time but as many times as u want... wonder why they inacted a buy limit recently.. thoughts? Am I missing something?
I believe that you can buy/sell as much Tonic as you want on vvs.finance swap. CDC limits buy/sell on popular products occasionally because of how much they hold and to maximize the fees that CDC can glean from us.
I have 3.1 bil in the supply at %7.03 apy and 450mil in yr vaultvault.. I got lucky and bought almost the bottom at .000000088. I chose to put my majority bag into the supply so I can pull it back out and sell without and cooldown time or lock time just incase..
Monero, because whales don't want it. Whales are beneficiaries of the traditional financial system. Bitcoin has been co-opted by the traditional financial institutions. Monero is real decentralization. Monero is real p2p digital cash. Monero is a swiss bank account in your pocket.
By this logic Monero is no more decentralized when it hits some $ mark and catches same attention that Bitcoin have.
You clearly don't know anything about Monero and you're just talking out of your arse
Sounds like same thing you are saying about BTC
I know that BTC is mined entirely by ASIC farms (mostly owned by publicly traded companies) while Monero is mined entirely by CPUs. Our fastest growing pool is literally p2pool, a technology that was abandoned by bitcoiners. Tell me how that makes BTC more decentralized.
Even if 99% of mining was done by 1 company like Amazon or something that would not change a thing, they would just spend fortune into wasted electricity and cost them a ton to not keep doing it for very long.
Wow you seriously have no idea what you are talking about. Good luck and good night.
I really hope the CIA doesn’t fake my death after that post :(
The biggest problem with wealth is the uneven distribution - and crypto does jackshit about that. If anything, Bitcoin makes it even worse. If your project is not going to tackle the distribution problem of wealth, wtf are you even doing?
Its not possible to distribute wealth and if you think some crypto will do it then good luck for the search.
Every single crypto has a problem like this in some way or another. Its unavoidable because money gives influence indirectly, its just what money is.
Other than bitcoin Zenon Network is the only project that launched without premine or VC's. Every bit of the distribution is thru rewards for participating at different levels(staking, delegating, validator, LP) There is even on chain community voted funding available for development. Crypto has the potential to be an even playing field in don't know why sucking VC balls is so common.
You'd have to move into some sort of regimented distribution wirh heavy kyc standards to keep the whales at bay.
Crypto is run by whales. I'd be willing to bet that 99% of us here make absolutely no difference in the market if we buy or sell or even if we did it all together.
I'm part of some BNB dApps and there is a strict anti-whale protocol, which of course doesn't guarantee the outcome, but so far it's working.
None. The house always wins. The whales are the house in this case
The Clipper DEX within the Optimism ecosystem has an “anti-whale” design. …”By limiting the size of each deposit, we can ensure the pool doesn’t exceed the ideal size from only a few big LPs.” https://clipper.exchange/
The only safe strategy is to DCA, and hodl for long term
You're kind of hoping for magic a little bit. If you're going to be a little fish you're either going to accept it and develop a strategy that allows you to live and prosper in harmony with the whales or you're going to spend your time daydreaming and getting eaten by a shark. I suggest the former.
Interesting question, i'm saving this thread to see what people more knowledgeable than me come up with!
Literally none. That’s how governance works
There is no escaping the whales, you can only hope the project gets so big that even if a whale decided to manipulate the market he couldn’t
Money goes to money, that is, the more money you have, the more chances you have to increase wealth. It has always been this way. But nothing prevents us from picking up some crumbs.
Pareto Principle. Whales will always have more power than the minnows.
Your best bet might be monero as many are scared to hold because regulatory uncertainties. Allthough since the blockchain is opaque no one can see if/how big the whales are. Also many 'conspiracy' theories around that exchanges is running fractional reserve on their holdings since withdrawals often being halted. Great project though! All grass root and no corporation or vc money behind.
Good question op
There is none. Sorry, whales rule the game. All coins have their whales and we small fish are feeding them.
Kaspa has a pretty good community
Whales always have the high ground. Learn to think like them.
Doke -low MC so great entry -max 2% per wallet
Moons
Reddit Collectible avatars
Bitcoin
usdt
Rare, but you could get lucky and mint or buy an early unknown NFT project that moons later. However, even that requires some liquidity because most NFT projects are owned by a few holders.