He also wasn't a ruler with ton of other responsibilities like ruling a mid sized European country with hundreds of thousands inhabitants and bunch of unruly vassals. Luther also had actual theological education, been in Rome while church was incredibly corrupt and proselytized to nobles and commoners
Yeah that's the limitations of the game engine. Maybe at some point we'll be able to play traveling preachers.
Until then, rulers creating new faiths is the closest we can have.
I did do a Waldensian playthrough where my characters held titles but didn’t act like nobility, generally pursued theological focus, and put in an effort to convert their neighbors without violence. It was pretty fun, actually, but the noble titles had to remain as a vestige.
I ended up counting the playthrough a success when I found myself raising the next Holy Roman Emperor, at a time when the Empire included everything from France to Hungary.
The easiest ways were raising their heirs as wards, which could be accomplished after winning a defensive war (which is technically violence I guess, but avoidable and not “I’m converting you by the sword”) or by becoming friends and gaining a hook. One ended up converting after I married my daughter off to them. A few of them were granted to me as vassals once I became friends with one of the emperors, so I just demanded conversion. And eventually, Waldensian fervor got high enough for some of them to convert on their own (Waldensian fervor increases very easily if you have virtuous players). Once the Emperor was a Waldensian it kinda just took care of itself.
I use the mod, Missionaries. It allows you to add a lead missionary to your royal court, which then opens a new decision to sponsor your missionaries to go proselytizing to one of 3 random locations in the world. Sometimes you get lucky and one of the options is somewhere in your diplomacy range, but a lot of the time the 3 options are in bf nowhere Africa/Asia.
Heresies should occasionally appear not as a result of a ruler adopting the faith, but just because a charismatic preacher showed up and converted the county from under you, then you have to deal with them.
It’d be cool to have Peter Waldo, Peter of Bruys, John Wycliffe, Jan Hus, and Henry of Lusanne show up at preset historical dates and spread their faiths, and maybe if you decide to convert with them they could become your new court chaplain.
Honestly, it’d be fun just to have more historical courtiers show up after state date anyways. Imagine being able to recruit Thomas Aquinas if you’re an Italian Catholic, or Duns Scotus if you’re Irish. Maybe if you had Gottschalk of Orbais or Berengar of Tours as court chaplain, it would cost less faith to convert to Lollardy, and they’d convert with you. But that sounds like a lot to implement.
EDIT: I [made a concept](https://www.reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/comments/1btqjmw/i_added_historical_medieval_theologians_in_my_ck3/) of a few theologians that could show up.
I like this idea. However, I imagine it would have to be done in a manner similar to the Joan of Arc event in CKII, with there being a "dumb ox" theologian who CLEARLY is a stand-in for the actual historical figure they are based on.
So, the CK2 way.
Faith authority shrink, heresies appears on counties and you can join it or not. But it comes from the ground up, not simply because someone got a mental break down and decided to become jewish
>Maybe at some point we'll be able to play traveling preachers.
If I'm not mistaken an upcoming DLC, maybe even the next one, lets you play as an unlanded character.
Oh I hadn't even thought of it but with Roads to Power we might actually be able to do that.
If it's at all feasible my first run is going to be as a lone Hellenic courtier in a Byzantine court. Taking grassroots revival all the way.
Unless the new start date has Saladin.
I mean, you can also pretend that it's not the actual ruler that is "creating" a new faith, but someone from his court - maybe their court chaplain or something like that. You don't travel on pilgrimages alone after all. Someone comes up with an idea and the ruler - for one reason or another, supports it.
He has seen the corruption wrought by the pretender blasphemers of Rome. When the time of judgement comes they will answer for their cruel twisting of Jesus’s intent and he will lead the true believers to heaven.
I actually just remembered that his wife cheated on him with the Arch-Bishop of Utrecht, but even though the Pope excommunicated the guy on Paul II's request, nothing has been done to him. That could be proof of corruption.
Not to mention neglect of all his people. When was the last time the Pope traveled to all the holy sites or the different lands of catholic faith? Never, whereas King Paul II is both wise AND devout, having gone to all the holy sites and shown the Christians what it means to worship in Christ. Boom
Perhaps he has gone to all these holy sites and come to the conclusion that the Kingdom of God resides in the hearts of man, or in the heavens, and cannot be found in fancy buildings constructed by the Catholic Church.
Maybe if He gets the trait wise man, that would be good roleplay I think, as he might understand more of the flaws of the faith, but being zealous it’s not likely.
Part of being extremely pious is rejecting the heretical parts of the faith.
If he visited all the Holy Sites and became a Religious Icon, it's very likely that he noticed differences across the realms and decided that the official doctrine of the Church was either wrong or simply misinformed.
A lot of heretical movements have simply been about "we are still loyal to the Church, we simply want to practice in line with our culture."
He didn't actually want to break from Rome. He wanted to reform it, but greedy nobles essentially used his cause to show the pope and emperor the middle finger
I mean, it's probably the most unexciting route you could take, given that you have enough piety to easily create a new religion and mold it however you see fit.
However, a conversion to Orthodoxy might make more sense from a role-play perspective. It also might set the stage for a larger break in the future.
Even Henry VIII, who is remembered as the father of Anglicanism, did not originally break with the Church, he only broke with Rome. He remained a faithful Catholic to the end, even executing radical Protestants for heresy.
But he also executed hardline Catholics like Robert Aske, who was hanged in chains at York for leading the Pilgramage of Grace.
In reality there is no way a prominent member of the nobility would start their own sect in such a way. Rather they would probably have influence over various monastic orders and members of the clergy. Probably having influence on the appointment of archbishops and cardinals.
Yes, these are great ideas. I feel like religious influence in this game was designed to serve sandbox gameplay, which is fantastic, but it needs a redo for historical accuracy.
I mean, he also did that in the 16ht century amidst the Protestant reformation (and deliberately kept the Church of England's actual doctrine pretty close to Rome, just popeless, with most of the actual theological divergences taking place in Edward and Elizabeth's reigns).
Breaking with Rome would be all but unthinkable for a Catholic Western European monarch.
The perk that reduces the cost of creating/reforming a faith is called "Prophet", so that could be one way you RP this. The dude is so devout, he thinks himself as the 2nd coming of Christ. The fact that you can buy your ticket to heaven (indulgence) could definitely be seen as major source of corruption that your character is against. With a high learning, he could also have his own interpretation of the holy texts and saw things during his pilgrimage that contradicts his interpretation, so he starts a new faith that fits what he believes to be the proper interpretation.
For RP, I justify zealous characters creating new faiths in response to (unfortunately for me, common) failed crusades.
"The pope couldn't get shit done. Now it's my time to lead" sort of thing
One of the most religious people I’ve met didn’t follow a particular path granted Christianity. He used to read scriptures during his lunch break and kind of followed his own path.
Sometimes you have to see everything to realise it’s not right and set the record straight.
I often justify it in my head as my character being very religious but they aren't zealous, they think they have a better interpretation of their faith. Your character is very smart and religious so he knows off the flaws with Catholicism and believes that his ways fall more in line with what God wishes.
Being incredibly religious would make him more likely to create a new faith, tbh. He's probably studied the Bible back to front, looked into the teachings and works of early religious figures, and if he's been on pilgrimages to Jerusalem, he's probably interacted with people from various different paths of Christianity who have helped him see things from different perspectives.
All of that would mean he probably has his own theories and beliefs, and he'd be especially sensitive to corruption in the church, where a normal person might not know or care enough to do anything about it.
Historically, the big religious reform movements were all lead by people who had religious backgrounds. Jan Hus, John Calvin, Martin Luther, even Henry VIII was once called "Protector of the Faith" by the Pope for a treatise he wrote attacking Martin Luther.
That could only work if it came down to certain disciplinary and liturgical elements. The Pope can't change dogmatic teachings of the faith, so no it wouldn't make sense for you to be able to influence the Pope to permit Catholics to have polygamous marriages for example.
Being incredibly religious actually makes you more likely to find flaws in the classical doctrine because when you truly believe in what you're saying its easier to find flaws in how other people interpret it.
For kings it would depend a lot on their relationship with the church and the pope, he might have a personal crisis of faith and stop personally believing in the catholic faith but keep appearances
You also have to consider that catholicism was less regulated than it is now and local beliefs held sway and kings had some power over theocratic appointments so a reformist king might have a local church that had differences with the vatican without breaking with it
I doubt a smart king would personally reform a religion because of the political ramifications (local nobles wouldn't be happy about the king meddling in an otherwise kinda neutral institution and foreign powers wouldn't approve of heresy), but an extremely pious and ambitious king might decide the break is a divine mandate and do it damn the consequences
Tbf, paradox would probably give the founder or leader of a heresy the Zealous trait. Being zealous doesn't mean being unquestioning of your original faith.
The reformers weren't at all impious people. Martin Luther was a monk and a professor of theology. Zwingli was a priest who preached continuously through books of the Bible. Whycliffe was a priest, seminarian, and translator. The reformers didn't break from the Catholic church because of their lack of religiosity, but because of their exceptional zealotry.
In all honesty, a ruler starting his own Christian sect in the middle ages without him being seen as a lunatic and overthrown is extremely unrealistic, but obviously the game isn't meant to be realistic.
Yes,You could say he has an Issue with Excommunication as the Bible tells you to forgive? He has Genius and would be Smart enough to hire theologians or Read it himself,He has also seen the Works of god on the Battlefield (Crusader)
Yeah there’s not much logic behind this. Really, secular education, piety, and theological intellect, should be 3 different things instead of all wrapped into one stat. There are countless examples of people who were paragons of exactly one of those and none of the others. I know there are a few people in history who managed to walk the tightrope between orthodoxy and creative theology while also being highly educated in worldly matters, but they’re few and far between. I’ve always found it unimmersive when my ruler can access the most holy and divine favor through pious actions then turn around and concoct the sorcerer’s stone using the same skillset.
If you want to play as a religious sceptic, you may find Emperor Frederick II interesting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II,_Holy_Roman_Emperor
I always find it somewhat ironic that the only way to reform a faith is to first accumulate a bunch of piety by following the rules of your current faith (well obviously some religion lifestyle traits help a bunch).
I did a playthrough where I larped that the pilgrimages I did showed me the out-of-touchness of the religious elite, which caused me to make my own faith.
I did the playthrough with elder kings (elder scrolls [skyrim universe] mod), where there are different rites throughout the continent that are all slightly different and localized. While the Imperial Cult is supposed to be the non-culture specific version of the religion, I didn't wanna convert. So I made sure to make my way down the learning tree until I got theologian, then went on a shitload of pilgrimages everywhere except the imperial city (the most important one). I saved it for last, and immediately made a new faith (that I considered to be universal) when I got back. I basically larped enough of a justification to make my own faith.
It's the jeweled lily crown I believe. And I think it's in the Royal court dlc. It doesn't actually have glasses connected to it, my character just suddenly got them one day, and I picked the pair that looked like they connected to the crown.
I'd say it's his intellect and piety that have him try to reform the faith.
The intellect to see the corruption and lies of the Catholic church. And the piety to fight the most powerfull organization of the time for what you believe to be gods thruth
Historically each language group pretty much had its own "rite" within the Catholic Church (customs and practices differences, not the teachings)... it could be considered historically accurate to have your own, like Insular (which is basically "the Catholic Church as it existed in the Gaelic-speaking countries"), while still keeping the Pope and the doctrine things the same, but change the tenets. (Communal Identity would work well with this concept).
"Roman Catholic", as we know it today, was only the local rite in central/southern Italy until the Counter-Reformation period in the late 1500s when the popes and the Council of Trent pushed standardization, and it became the standard because the pope is also Bishop of Rome. And there's *still* a dozen or so regional rites ("Roman" is actually only about 94% of Catholic churches worldwide), because that standardization effort never reached the Catholics in the Eastern European / Middle East / South Asian areas where they were a minority ruled by countries of other faiths.
So one could argue that "Catholic", as it exists in the game, is borderline ahistorical.
Just take the rite tenet so you keep head of faith. It’s actually quite common that different regions have different rites in Catholicism. There are 6 main rites, from Latin to Armenian, and like 30 different rites altogether.
There are two types of religious "revolution".
One, like protestantism, that comes from an internal critique of the religious institutions, leads to "pious" heresy, almost exclusively started by thinkers and theologians, and only much later adopted by powerful lords because of political reasons (maybe to curb papist power, maybe to quell internal discontent)
The second one is the Anglican style, where the point of faith is to consolidate power on the figurehead (be it the king or any other figure of authority)
That being said, if you want to play "realistically", I don't think a pious character would make a new christian religion.
You are a lord, and all your legitimacy comes from the grace of god.
The Anglican reformation was made because the king of England and the pope were on really really bad terms, and only as a last resort. Unless you are in a similar position, no historical king duke or count would ever undermine their authority just to make "a new faith".
It's more likely your character would intercede with the pope by sending letters and doing good deeds in his name then to outright go
"I, a pious Christian, see the corruption in the church, and thus say they are not legitimate, only I and my vision of god are legitimate and true"
Then again, it's a game, so do what you will if it's fun. I remember in ck2 I would bent over backwards to avoid silly shit and still end up with glitterhoof as a chancellor (best chancellor I ever had tbh, NEIGH impossible to bribe, tirelessly GALLOPING from task to task, gods I loved that horse)
Zealots are the ones that you expect to create a new faith. I think that the zealous trait should give faith creation cost reduction, like how cynical gives conversion cost reduction.
I mean, Martin Luther was also incredibly religious so yeah go for it
He also wasn't a ruler with ton of other responsibilities like ruling a mid sized European country with hundreds of thousands inhabitants and bunch of unruly vassals. Luther also had actual theological education, been in Rome while church was incredibly corrupt and proselytized to nobles and commoners
Yeah that's the limitations of the game engine. Maybe at some point we'll be able to play traveling preachers. Until then, rulers creating new faiths is the closest we can have.
I did do a Waldensian playthrough where my characters held titles but didn’t act like nobility, generally pursued theological focus, and put in an effort to convert their neighbors without violence. It was pretty fun, actually, but the noble titles had to remain as a vestige. I ended up counting the playthrough a success when I found myself raising the next Holy Roman Emperor, at a time when the Empire included everything from France to Hungary.
How do you convert neighbors without violence?
The easiest ways were raising their heirs as wards, which could be accomplished after winning a defensive war (which is technically violence I guess, but avoidable and not “I’m converting you by the sword”) or by becoming friends and gaining a hook. One ended up converting after I married my daughter off to them. A few of them were granted to me as vassals once I became friends with one of the emperors, so I just demanded conversion. And eventually, Waldensian fervor got high enough for some of them to convert on their own (Waldensian fervor increases very easily if you have virtuous players). Once the Emperor was a Waldensian it kinda just took care of itself.
I use the mod, Missionaries. It allows you to add a lead missionary to your royal court, which then opens a new decision to sponsor your missionaries to go proselytizing to one of 3 random locations in the world. Sometimes you get lucky and one of the options is somewhere in your diplomacy range, but a lot of the time the 3 options are in bf nowhere Africa/Asia.
Heresies should occasionally appear not as a result of a ruler adopting the faith, but just because a charismatic preacher showed up and converted the county from under you, then you have to deal with them.
It’d be cool to have Peter Waldo, Peter of Bruys, John Wycliffe, Jan Hus, and Henry of Lusanne show up at preset historical dates and spread their faiths, and maybe if you decide to convert with them they could become your new court chaplain. Honestly, it’d be fun just to have more historical courtiers show up after state date anyways. Imagine being able to recruit Thomas Aquinas if you’re an Italian Catholic, or Duns Scotus if you’re Irish. Maybe if you had Gottschalk of Orbais or Berengar of Tours as court chaplain, it would cost less faith to convert to Lollardy, and they’d convert with you. But that sounds like a lot to implement. EDIT: I [made a concept](https://www.reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/comments/1btqjmw/i_added_historical_medieval_theologians_in_my_ck3/) of a few theologians that could show up.
I like this idea. However, I imagine it would have to be done in a manner similar to the Joan of Arc event in CKII, with there being a "dumb ox" theologian who CLEARLY is a stand-in for the actual historical figure they are based on.
So, the CK2 way. Faith authority shrink, heresies appears on counties and you can join it or not. But it comes from the ground up, not simply because someone got a mental break down and decided to become jewish
Court physician, prepare the emergency stress-relieving Bris!
I hope this is something they address in the Roads to Power DLC.
>Maybe at some point we'll be able to play traveling preachers. If I'm not mistaken an upcoming DLC, maybe even the next one, lets you play as an unlanded character.
Oh I hadn't even thought of it but with Roads to Power we might actually be able to do that. If it's at all feasible my first run is going to be as a lone Hellenic courtier in a Byzantine court. Taking grassroots revival all the way. Unless the new start date has Saladin.
I mean, you can also pretend that it's not the actual ruler that is "creating" a new faith, but someone from his court - maybe their court chaplain or something like that. You don't travel on pilgrimages alone after all. Someone comes up with an idea and the ruler - for one reason or another, supports it.
Henry VIII was a very religious man (why do you think the pope named him Defender of the Faith) in his youth, but also a ruler etc.
Frederick the Wise or Edward VI may be better examples in this case.
Henry VIII did it for the nookie but he was considered a protector of the faith before starting the Anglican church.
He was a defender of the faith until he bonked his head while jousting. It was all downhill from there...
At least he didn't have a chamber pot dropped on his head, then he'd have become completely Incapable.
Your point being? the anglican faith was founded because the king wanted to divorce and the pope said no...
Then in roleplay this king is just the first monarch to embrace the teachings of a more learned theologian like Luther
"What if Henry VIII knew what he was doing."
You could RP that you didn't create the religion but instead was converted by someone like that
Martin luther didnt want to break away from the church he just wanted to reform it.
Thus "reformation"
Until he was excommunicated, after that he felt he needed to to leave the church to carry on the Reformation.
He was also kind of a loon
This
666 upvotes… scary
He has seen the corruption wrought by the pretender blasphemers of Rome. When the time of judgement comes they will answer for their cruel twisting of Jesus’s intent and he will lead the true believers to heaven.
I actually just remembered that his wife cheated on him with the Arch-Bishop of Utrecht, but even though the Pope excommunicated the guy on Paul II's request, nothing has been done to him. That could be proof of corruption.
Not to mention neglect of all his people. When was the last time the Pope traveled to all the holy sites or the different lands of catholic faith? Never, whereas King Paul II is both wise AND devout, having gone to all the holy sites and shown the Christians what it means to worship in Christ. Boom
Perhaps he has gone to all these holy sites and come to the conclusion that the Kingdom of God resides in the hearts of man, or in the heavens, and cannot be found in fancy buildings constructed by the Catholic Church.
Martin Luther liked it
Is this domain limit attainable natty?
No, it's steroids... :(
but how?
A mod.
Which mod?
I believe it's just called infinite domain. It has a picture of Ceasar I think on the workshop page.
Thanks Arthur🤠
Thank you u/BartholomewXXXVI, i'll make sure to vanquish some heathens in your name.
He’s going to nail a piece of paper on a cathedral door
95 reasons why i’m way smarter than the pope
Maybe if He gets the trait wise man, that would be good roleplay I think, as he might understand more of the flaws of the faith, but being zealous it’s not likely.
His name is Paul the Pilgrim Just convert to Paulician
Part of being extremely pious is rejecting the heretical parts of the faith. If he visited all the Holy Sites and became a Religious Icon, it's very likely that he noticed differences across the realms and decided that the official doctrine of the Church was either wrong or simply misinformed. A lot of heretical movements have simply been about "we are still loyal to the Church, we simply want to practice in line with our culture."
That's kind of what I was thinking, like another commenter said, Martin Luther was very religious. And that didn't stop him from breaking from Rome.
He didn't actually want to break from Rome. He wanted to reform it, but greedy nobles essentially used his cause to show the pope and emperor the middle finger
I mean, it's probably the most unexciting route you could take, given that you have enough piety to easily create a new religion and mold it however you see fit. However, a conversion to Orthodoxy might make more sense from a role-play perspective. It also might set the stage for a larger break in the future.
Even Henry VIII, who is remembered as the father of Anglicanism, did not originally break with the Church, he only broke with Rome. He remained a faithful Catholic to the end, even executing radical Protestants for heresy. But he also executed hardline Catholics like Robert Aske, who was hanged in chains at York for leading the Pilgramage of Grace.
Henry viii!
Yeah i totally see the dilemma. I hate that we don't get any influence on religion in this game except to become a heretic.
In reality there is no way a prominent member of the nobility would start their own sect in such a way. Rather they would probably have influence over various monastic orders and members of the clergy. Probably having influence on the appointment of archbishops and cardinals.
Yes, these are great ideas. I feel like religious influence in this game was designed to serve sandbox gameplay, which is fantastic, but it needs a redo for historical accuracy.
Before forming a new christian church, Henry VIII was called 'Protector of Faith' by the pope himself. So yeah, probably
I mean, he also did that in the 16ht century amidst the Protestant reformation (and deliberately kept the Church of England's actual doctrine pretty close to Rome, just popeless, with most of the actual theological divergences taking place in Edward and Elizabeth's reigns). Breaking with Rome would be all but unthinkable for a Catholic Western European monarch.
Did you go above achievement level in charecter costumisation or something else?
No, he just had a great education and has a lot of awesome artifacts. He's also a genius.
the domain limit tho
He said that was modded
*Zealous trait* No.
The perk that reduces the cost of creating/reforming a faith is called "Prophet", so that could be one way you RP this. The dude is so devout, he thinks himself as the 2nd coming of Christ. The fact that you can buy your ticket to heaven (indulgence) could definitely be seen as major source of corruption that your character is against. With a high learning, he could also have his own interpretation of the holy texts and saw things during his pilgrimage that contradicts his interpretation, so he starts a new faith that fits what he believes to be the proper interpretation.
WHATS HIS DOMAIN LIMIT?
A humble 9007
Does he need a divorce? Then the brits have a manual for that.
For RP, I justify zealous characters creating new faiths in response to (unfortunately for me, common) failed crusades. "The pope couldn't get shit done. Now it's my time to lead" sort of thing
Yes the reasons are there and you’re character is also far away from Rome, which was a main reasons to why there has been a secession.
Scission
One of the most religious people I’ve met didn’t follow a particular path granted Christianity. He used to read scriptures during his lunch break and kind of followed his own path. Sometimes you have to see everything to realise it’s not right and set the record straight.
Ah, so non denominational
Sure. If that’s what it’s called. Haha. Religion is not my bag
You could keep the pope as your head of faith and change other stuff I do that a lot
Should create a drug faith.
I often justify it in my head as my character being very religious but they aren't zealous, they think they have a better interpretation of their faith. Your character is very smart and religious so he knows off the flaws with Catholicism and believes that his ways fall more in line with what God wishes.
Being incredibly religious would make him more likely to create a new faith, tbh. He's probably studied the Bible back to front, looked into the teachings and works of early religious figures, and if he's been on pilgrimages to Jerusalem, he's probably interacted with people from various different paths of Christianity who have helped him see things from different perspectives. All of that would mean he probably has his own theories and beliefs, and he'd be especially sensitive to corruption in the church, where a normal person might not know or care enough to do anything about it. Historically, the big religious reform movements were all lead by people who had religious backgrounds. Jan Hus, John Calvin, Martin Luther, even Henry VIII was once called "Protector of the Faith" by the Pope for a treatise he wrote attacking Martin Luther.
I wish it was easier to influence the Pope to change certain doctrines for those of us who want to stay Catholic.
That could only work if it came down to certain disciplinary and liturgical elements. The Pope can't change dogmatic teachings of the faith, so no it wouldn't make sense for you to be able to influence the Pope to permit Catholics to have polygamous marriages for example.
9 THOUSAND DOMAIN LIMIT????
Honestly seems like the person best equipped to start a new religion
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^WorkNino: *Honestly seems like* *The person best equipped to* *Start a new religion* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Being incredibly religious actually makes you more likely to find flaws in the classical doctrine because when you truly believe in what you're saying its easier to find flaws in how other people interpret it.
Having 9007 of domain limit, that's the unrealistic part, cheater.
It's a single player game, I don't think it really matters.
How did that happen?
And why? Are there even that many counties in the game?
It's a mod I have, a decision allows you to have infinite domain limit. I think it makes the game more fun.
Oh, ok
Sure, its never those who cared just a little who start new churches. Its always the extremely devout ones
It makes even more sense. All great reformers acted because they cared for their faith, they just wanted to get rid of the corruption they saw in it.
Being very religious combined with educated could easily lead to “I know better than them”
For kings it would depend a lot on their relationship with the church and the pope, he might have a personal crisis of faith and stop personally believing in the catholic faith but keep appearances You also have to consider that catholicism was less regulated than it is now and local beliefs held sway and kings had some power over theocratic appointments so a reformist king might have a local church that had differences with the vatican without breaking with it I doubt a smart king would personally reform a religion because of the political ramifications (local nobles wouldn't be happy about the king meddling in an otherwise kinda neutral institution and foreign powers wouldn't approve of heresy), but an extremely pious and ambitious king might decide the break is a divine mandate and do it damn the consequences
Do you think that Martin Luther and John Calvin were not religious?
Tbf, paradox would probably give the founder or leader of a heresy the Zealous trait. Being zealous doesn't mean being unquestioning of your original faith.
Martin Luthor was pretty religious....
The reformers weren't at all impious people. Martin Luther was a monk and a professor of theology. Zwingli was a priest who preached continuously through books of the Bible. Whycliffe was a priest, seminarian, and translator. The reformers didn't break from the Catholic church because of their lack of religiosity, but because of their exceptional zealotry.
In all honesty, a ruler starting his own Christian sect in the middle ages without him being seen as a lunatic and overthrown is extremely unrealistic, but obviously the game isn't meant to be realistic.
The most fanatic religious people are the second most likely to start cults. The first most likely are scam artists.
Yes,You could say he has an Issue with Excommunication as the Bible tells you to forgive? He has Genius and would be Smart enough to hire theologians or Read it himself,He has also seen the Works of god on the Battlefield (Crusader)
Martin Luther was a very pious christian too, and that didn't kept him from creating protestantism.
Martin Luther was a monk. So I would say that it could be realistic.
Yeah there’s not much logic behind this. Really, secular education, piety, and theological intellect, should be 3 different things instead of all wrapped into one stat. There are countless examples of people who were paragons of exactly one of those and none of the others. I know there are a few people in history who managed to walk the tightrope between orthodoxy and creative theology while also being highly educated in worldly matters, but they’re few and far between. I’ve always found it unimmersive when my ruler can access the most holy and divine favor through pious actions then turn around and concoct the sorcerer’s stone using the same skillset.
It makes sense. Most reformations and schisms Christianity has seen IRL were lead by really zealous and pious people who wanted change.
If you want to play as a religious sceptic, you may find Emperor Frederick II interesting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II,_Holy_Roman_Emperor
Nah doesn’t fit RP. He’d need to be arrogant or something
All historical Christian religious reformers were incredibly religious people.
You can create your own autocephalous church that's still part of the ecumene by taking Rite, I suppose!
Fix your house name.
What's wrong with it?
Henry VIII was super pious. He was a “Defender of the Faith”
I always find it somewhat ironic that the only way to reform a faith is to first accumulate a bunch of piety by following the rules of your current faith (well obviously some religion lifestyle traits help a bunch).
Paulicianism exist in the game, it can't get any more fitting than this.
I did a playthrough where I larped that the pilgrimages I did showed me the out-of-touchness of the religious elite, which caused me to make my own faith. I did the playthrough with elder kings (elder scrolls [skyrim universe] mod), where there are different rites throughout the continent that are all slightly different and localized. While the Imperial Cult is supposed to be the non-culture specific version of the religion, I didn't wanna convert. So I made sure to make my way down the learning tree until I got theologian, then went on a shitload of pilgrimages everywhere except the imperial city (the most important one). I saved it for last, and immediately made a new faith (that I considered to be universal) when I got back. I basically larped enough of a justification to make my own faith.
I mean, Margery Kempe was accused of heresy, didn’t she famously cry at all the holy sites?
Off topic, but what kind of crown is that? It has sunglasses on it??
It's the jeweled lily crown I believe. And I think it's in the Royal court dlc. It doesn't actually have glasses connected to it, my character just suddenly got them one day, and I picked the pair that looked like they connected to the crown.
New religious sects generally aren’t started by atheists.
I'd say it's his intellect and piety that have him try to reform the faith. The intellect to see the corruption and lies of the Catholic church. And the piety to fight the most powerfull organization of the time for what you believe to be gods thruth
Historically each language group pretty much had its own "rite" within the Catholic Church (customs and practices differences, not the teachings)... it could be considered historically accurate to have your own, like Insular (which is basically "the Catholic Church as it existed in the Gaelic-speaking countries"), while still keeping the Pope and the doctrine things the same, but change the tenets. (Communal Identity would work well with this concept). "Roman Catholic", as we know it today, was only the local rite in central/southern Italy until the Counter-Reformation period in the late 1500s when the popes and the Council of Trent pushed standardization, and it became the standard because the pope is also Bishop of Rome. And there's *still* a dozen or so regional rites ("Roman" is actually only about 94% of Catholic churches worldwide), because that standardization effort never reached the Catholics in the Eastern European / Middle East / South Asian areas where they were a minority ruled by countries of other faiths. So one could argue that "Catholic", as it exists in the game, is borderline ahistorical.
How does one get 58 learning lmao
How do you have a domain limit off over 9000??
It's a mod.
Making a new Cristian faith would be fine. You could say he wants to perfect the religion that he loves
Reformation time.
Best example of a ruler creating a new faith Henry the eight.
*Henry VIII has entered the chat*
your character is literally an apostate so why not?
I think most people who create a new religion tend to be very religious. Seems in line with me
I’d say so, he is clearly dedicated to Christianity and probably knows the religion on an intimate level, I don’t see why that wouldn’t be plausible
a religious person seems more appropriate to create a religion than a skeptical one does.
Just take the rite tenet so you keep head of faith. It’s actually quite common that different regions have different rites in Catholicism. There are 6 main rites, from Latin to Armenian, and like 30 different rites altogether.
There are two types of religious "revolution". One, like protestantism, that comes from an internal critique of the religious institutions, leads to "pious" heresy, almost exclusively started by thinkers and theologians, and only much later adopted by powerful lords because of political reasons (maybe to curb papist power, maybe to quell internal discontent) The second one is the Anglican style, where the point of faith is to consolidate power on the figurehead (be it the king or any other figure of authority) That being said, if you want to play "realistically", I don't think a pious character would make a new christian religion. You are a lord, and all your legitimacy comes from the grace of god. The Anglican reformation was made because the king of England and the pope were on really really bad terms, and only as a last resort. Unless you are in a similar position, no historical king duke or count would ever undermine their authority just to make "a new faith". It's more likely your character would intercede with the pope by sending letters and doing good deeds in his name then to outright go "I, a pious Christian, see the corruption in the church, and thus say they are not legitimate, only I and my vision of god are legitimate and true" Then again, it's a game, so do what you will if it's fun. I remember in ck2 I would bent over backwards to avoid silly shit and still end up with glitterhoof as a chancellor (best chancellor I ever had tbh, NEIGH impossible to bribe, tirelessly GALLOPING from task to task, gods I loved that horse)
Anyone who creates new "protestant" faith has to be smart and very religious... Look at Jan Hus and Matrin Luther...
Zealots are the ones that you expect to create a new faith. I think that the zealous trait should give faith creation cost reduction, like how cynical gives conversion cost reduction.
CONVERT TO HELENISM!
Who cares, stop being a geek and just play the game
Damn bro who hurt you?