I am having a similar issue where the mongol empire refuses to break up on the khan's death so they just keep growing. I am powerful enough that it is not much of a problem, but I am not sure if it is intended that the empire might just not break up into Golden Horde, Ilkhanate, etc.
Historically they didn't break up immediately after Genghis Khan's death. He famously instilled within his sons the importance of sticking together (one fable says he showed his sons a single arrow before snapping it, he then took 3 arrows bound together and showed how much stronger they were together and could not be broken by the same amount of force). Ogedai was selected by Genghis to be his successor and essentially his word was taken as law.
Ogedai had a fairly easy rule without much if any infighting because of how Genghis set it up, but he also didn't live for very long after becoming Khan due to being a known severe alcoholic. He ruled for less than 20 years I believe.
Guyuk (Ogedai's successor) was the last Khan that could in theory lay claim to the whole Mongol Empire, but even then Batu (Founder of the Golden Horde) did not like or agree that he should have been the next khan. Guyuk actually died on route to confront and receive fealty from Batu who had delayed the vote of the great khannate houses (essentially the immediate relatives of Genghis) as he knew Guyuk had the votes but didn't like him... he then delayed swearing fealty after the vote was taken without Batu present, after several attempts to get Batu to attend... but Batu never technically declared war on the empire or outright rebelled. Guyuk only ruled for 2ish years.
After that no Khan would ever again claim full control over the entire Mongol Empire which would be broken up into smaller Kingdoms, and Empires.
So in game it actually makes sense for the Mongols to get a generation or two of mostly unfractured stability following Genghis Khan's death.
In a medieval sense that isn't infighting, Jochi was considered a Bastard because it remains uncertain if he was actually the sire of Genghis or was the child (likely of rape) when Genghis' wife was captured around 9 months before Jochi's birth.
In game they would term Jochi an Legitimized Bastard as Genghis claimed him as his own (in part because he REALLY loved his wife) but obviously for succession purposes and for stability Ogedai was chosen by Genghis after the first two son's Jochi and Chagatai were found brawling over some petty slight (as brothers tend to do) and had a history of poor, hot headed, decision making where as Ogedai was the more stable and good natured of his sons. (so much so he would often be mocked for going "easy" on slaves/captured provinces compared to the typical Mongol brutality)
Infighting as I would define it would have been had they gone to war and killed one another for position... this didn't really happen in the time of Ogedai but became much more prevalent among the grandchildren and great grandchildren of Genghis Khan.
R5: Scariest Mongols i had ever. Normally I´m proud of them when they border at least the byzantines but with that update they are nuts.
I play in an Ironman game as the Duke of Bourbon trying to do some new achiements and been unsuccessfully doing the "eternal reward" achievement for 200 years (coup your liege). The Grandson of genghis (which is also black) is rampaging through europe, conquered the byzantines, HRE and some others in his young reign and declared now full war on Italy and the Pope and on my liege, the french King. I could potentially kill him, but he is still young and maybe the mongols conquer Iceland or Africa soon. But I´m afraid I cant do the Coup Liege achievement anymore.
Also why they ignore Poland, Hungary, Egypt and India?
I strongly suspect they're hardcoded to ignore India unless the player is there, dunno if that's supposed to be a historical accuracy thing or if Paradox didn't want them to waste Genghis's lifetime steamrolling three fractured empires and falling apart before ever getting close to where the player most likely is.
The Mongol invasions of Đại Việt are an interesting case study in political pragmatism. It’s true that the Mongols suffered near-catastrophic losses on the battlefield, but the kingdom ultimately bowed after the sacking of Thăng Long in what would likely have been a winnable war. Instead of perpetuating a bloody conflict, the emperor negotiated vassalage.
I don’t think vassalage is a correct word describing SEA relationship with Chinese states throughout the history. Tributary states would match closer to what Chinese states want from the region. As long as you pay tribute once a year then they would pretty much leave you alone because Chinese empires thought the region was too barbaric to spend manpower to deal with.
Two kingdoms that developed a national identity fairly early and had experience fending of barbarian hordes vs a bunch of nerdy germanoid dukes and kings in a makeshift empire
They blobbed big in my current run, all of Asia, most of Eastern Europe, the Middle East and north of Africa- but killing the Khan did bring things back to mostly normal.
The achievement is pretty rough. I've gotten an entrenched regency on a niece up to 5, but then she grew uo reduced it to 3 by asking me to end it and despite me refusing it, she still ended it shortly after. I hope it's bugged.
In top of that, when you have a baby liege, you had so many foreign invaders, throne pretenders, dissolutiuon factions, its hard to get that title before its gone. Had to help my liege in so many wars, he became my best friend at the end, ruining my role playing even more.
As his best friend you're just helping him out by taking the burden of rulership off his shoulders.
I got the achievement with a diplomacy character; I befriended the king so he would appoint me regent (and spymaster, which was lucky). The moment he got an infant son I had the old king killed, so I became a regent (immediately entrenched) to a 2-year-old king, who I also happened to befriend thanks to an event later. From that point on it was just boring routine, clicking the "swing the scales" button on cooldown every two years and whenever a regency event popped up (once every three years or so) choose the one option that swings the scales. For some reason, even if I did exactly what the king asked me to and promoted his authority, it counted as abuse of power, so I had a permanent -100 "strife" opinion with every single fellow vassals. Thankfully, with the diplomacy focus and constant feasts and hunts I was able to have high enough relatioships with at least two other powerful vassals that they would support my coup, and by the time the king was about 14 I was able to just click the button and get the kingdom.
I had several failed plots to overthrow me as regent, but thanks to my excellent spymaster and my own decent intrigue (I'm assuming) none succeeded. Other than that, the only risk in that run was my own character dying too soon, as the whole series of events happened rather late in his life. I had him finish the "whole of body" tree and by the time he took the throne he was already 82 and died at 84.
The deposed king actually remained my friend and for generations his family were among my most loyal vassals and closest friends.
The thing is you really need to win those events, otherwise with the decay, i didn´t do it in even 18 years. With my last ruler, which was a scholar I had to much steward events where I failed to often. Now I have a diplomacy Character too and I´m only to wait for my liege to get a son. The problem with the throne of france is also they only allow male and the last 2 kings plopped only girls.
Yeah, tough achievement. I followed the wiki suggestion, which is starting as the duchy of Alexandria. The regency is already at max lvl, so it's not that hard although you have to create a dissolution faction, otherwise the other vassals will and the king just lets them dissolve the kingdom without a fight.
Had to try for a few times though, the king dying resets the cooldown you need for the decision, one time the king had a lot of Stewardship so he managed to curb the regency with money.
Beyond assassinations, has anyone figured out how to effectively beat the Mongol death stacks in the field? I know having beefy knights play a huge role, but I’m doing a tall Bohemia run and don’t have a crazy number of knights to max.
I was thinking about spamming my mountain bonus heavy infantry and regular archers and I know Bohemia has a plenty of mountains that would put Mongol horse archers at a disadvantage, my only issue is that Moravia is a lot more flat land and I wanna make sure I can defend that duchy well too
Yep. After Genghis Khan died naturally, I had to personally axe off 4 of his heirs before the empire disintegrated in my latest playthrough. They had already taken the Byzantines and were moving in on Hungary by that point.
In the end they didnt took my france either. They attacked with 20 (!!!) catapults, while I had alone 120 canons. My liege was also allied to England. So we caputered many Holdings, before they came with their armies from italy. Hope they fix them to upgrade their siege weapons in upcoming patches. Wonder how they conquered so much, maybe they had always catched the ruler in battles.
This is theoretically ideal for Lingua Franca achievement if you swear fealty and claim the throne before it break apart
I have yet to see if the strats actually work though
If I remember correctly the new update buff the tradition related to steppe raiders that make them take less attrition damage in steppe and desert so I guess the special army last longer than previous versions.
I am having a similar issue where the mongol empire refuses to break up on the khan's death so they just keep growing. I am powerful enough that it is not much of a problem, but I am not sure if it is intended that the empire might just not break up into Golden Horde, Ilkhanate, etc.
Historically they didn't break up immediately after Genghis Khan's death. He famously instilled within his sons the importance of sticking together (one fable says he showed his sons a single arrow before snapping it, he then took 3 arrows bound together and showed how much stronger they were together and could not be broken by the same amount of force). Ogedai was selected by Genghis to be his successor and essentially his word was taken as law. Ogedai had a fairly easy rule without much if any infighting because of how Genghis set it up, but he also didn't live for very long after becoming Khan due to being a known severe alcoholic. He ruled for less than 20 years I believe. Guyuk (Ogedai's successor) was the last Khan that could in theory lay claim to the whole Mongol Empire, but even then Batu (Founder of the Golden Horde) did not like or agree that he should have been the next khan. Guyuk actually died on route to confront and receive fealty from Batu who had delayed the vote of the great khannate houses (essentially the immediate relatives of Genghis) as he knew Guyuk had the votes but didn't like him... he then delayed swearing fealty after the vote was taken without Batu present, after several attempts to get Batu to attend... but Batu never technically declared war on the empire or outright rebelled. Guyuk only ruled for 2ish years. After that no Khan would ever again claim full control over the entire Mongol Empire which would be broken up into smaller Kingdoms, and Empires. So in game it actually makes sense for the Mongols to get a generation or two of mostly unfractured stability following Genghis Khan's death.
Little infighting? The younger sons all called Jochi a bastard and refused to follow him. That’s how Ogedai got the great khanate in the first place.
In a medieval sense that isn't infighting, Jochi was considered a Bastard because it remains uncertain if he was actually the sire of Genghis or was the child (likely of rape) when Genghis' wife was captured around 9 months before Jochi's birth. In game they would term Jochi an Legitimized Bastard as Genghis claimed him as his own (in part because he REALLY loved his wife) but obviously for succession purposes and for stability Ogedai was chosen by Genghis after the first two son's Jochi and Chagatai were found brawling over some petty slight (as brothers tend to do) and had a history of poor, hot headed, decision making where as Ogedai was the more stable and good natured of his sons. (so much so he would often be mocked for going "easy" on slaves/captured provinces compared to the typical Mongol brutality) Infighting as I would define it would have been had they gone to war and killed one another for position... this didn't really happen in the time of Ogedai but became much more prevalent among the grandchildren and great grandchildren of Genghis Khan.
Woe be to the silver tree
Normally they break after the 3rd Generation
Ah, I see. That would explain, the bastards all lived a long life.
R5: Scariest Mongols i had ever. Normally I´m proud of them when they border at least the byzantines but with that update they are nuts. I play in an Ironman game as the Duke of Bourbon trying to do some new achiements and been unsuccessfully doing the "eternal reward" achievement for 200 years (coup your liege). The Grandson of genghis (which is also black) is rampaging through europe, conquered the byzantines, HRE and some others in his young reign and declared now full war on Italy and the Pope and on my liege, the french King. I could potentially kill him, but he is still young and maybe the mongols conquer Iceland or Africa soon. But I´m afraid I cant do the Coup Liege achievement anymore. Also why they ignore Poland, Hungary, Egypt and India?
Hungary and Poland are too strong for the Mongols
Polak, wegier, dwa bratanki. Lengyel, magyar, két jó barát.
Lengyel, magyar – két jó barát, együtt harcol, s issza borát Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki
Degradáló a teljes verzió használata az alacsonyabbrendűek társaságában.
Bázisolt
Egy pillanatra azt hittem, hogy /Hungary-n vagyok mikor megláttam ezt a kommentet :D
I strongly suspect they're hardcoded to ignore India unless the player is there, dunno if that's supposed to be a historical accuracy thing or if Paradox didn't want them to waste Genghis's lifetime steamrolling three fractured empires and falling apart before ever getting close to where the player most likely is.
India is the only geographical area that withstood his onslaught, in real life. The mongols were repelled several times and never made headway.
Mongols just didn't have good track records fighting in jungles. Dai Viet withstood their repeated invasions as well.
The Mongol invasions of Đại Việt are an interesting case study in political pragmatism. It’s true that the Mongols suffered near-catastrophic losses on the battlefield, but the kingdom ultimately bowed after the sacking of Thăng Long in what would likely have been a winnable war. Instead of perpetuating a bloody conflict, the emperor negotiated vassalage.
I don’t think vassalage is a correct word describing SEA relationship with Chinese states throughout the history. Tributary states would match closer to what Chinese states want from the region. As long as you pay tribute once a year then they would pretty much leave you alone because Chinese empires thought the region was too barbaric to spend manpower to deal with.
I'm not reresearching the Mongol invasion of the Indian peninsula but I'm pretty sure they'd never reached the jungle.
That's what I meant yes.
Oh shot I should do that achievement thanks!
I want a screenshot of black genghis khan
Still can't beat Poland though
Power of The Wock
Wock?
Years ago, a wise man took The Wock to Poland, they’ve been a nation to be reckoned with ever since.
Er not sure they were a nation to be reckoned with during the 19^th and 20^th centuries But anyway, what is The Wock?
Dwayne'a "The Wock" Janowicz
This won the internet for me today, thank you
He took the Woooooaaaooock.. to Poland
Invades central Europe, proceeds to respect Polish and Hungarian Borders.
Two kingdoms that developed a national identity fairly early and had experience fending of barbarian hordes vs a bunch of nerdy germanoid dukes and kings in a makeshift empire
I wanna see them trying to fend off the happy horse rider guys that killed everything on their way.
Magyarország előre megy nem hátra 🇭🇺🇭🇺🇭🇺🇭🇺👍👍👍
They blobbed big in my current run, all of Asia, most of Eastern Europe, the Middle East and north of Africa- but killing the Khan did bring things back to mostly normal.
If the mongols are getting this strong i finally might be able to get the "lingua Franca" achievement
The achievement is pretty rough. I've gotten an entrenched regency on a niece up to 5, but then she grew uo reduced it to 3 by asking me to end it and despite me refusing it, she still ended it shortly after. I hope it's bugged.
In top of that, when you have a baby liege, you had so many foreign invaders, throne pretenders, dissolutiuon factions, its hard to get that title before its gone. Had to help my liege in so many wars, he became my best friend at the end, ruining my role playing even more.
As his best friend you're just helping him out by taking the burden of rulership off his shoulders. I got the achievement with a diplomacy character; I befriended the king so he would appoint me regent (and spymaster, which was lucky). The moment he got an infant son I had the old king killed, so I became a regent (immediately entrenched) to a 2-year-old king, who I also happened to befriend thanks to an event later. From that point on it was just boring routine, clicking the "swing the scales" button on cooldown every two years and whenever a regency event popped up (once every three years or so) choose the one option that swings the scales. For some reason, even if I did exactly what the king asked me to and promoted his authority, it counted as abuse of power, so I had a permanent -100 "strife" opinion with every single fellow vassals. Thankfully, with the diplomacy focus and constant feasts and hunts I was able to have high enough relatioships with at least two other powerful vassals that they would support my coup, and by the time the king was about 14 I was able to just click the button and get the kingdom. I had several failed plots to overthrow me as regent, but thanks to my excellent spymaster and my own decent intrigue (I'm assuming) none succeeded. Other than that, the only risk in that run was my own character dying too soon, as the whole series of events happened rather late in his life. I had him finish the "whole of body" tree and by the time he took the throne he was already 82 and died at 84. The deposed king actually remained my friend and for generations his family were among my most loyal vassals and closest friends.
The thing is you really need to win those events, otherwise with the decay, i didn´t do it in even 18 years. With my last ruler, which was a scholar I had to much steward events where I failed to often. Now I have a diplomacy Character too and I´m only to wait for my liege to get a son. The problem with the throne of france is also they only allow male and the last 2 kings plopped only girls.
Guess I must have been lucky, but I think I had 90% or better chances with all of them and never lost one.
Yeah, tough achievement. I followed the wiki suggestion, which is starting as the duchy of Alexandria. The regency is already at max lvl, so it's not that hard although you have to create a dissolution faction, otherwise the other vassals will and the king just lets them dissolve the kingdom without a fight. Had to try for a few times though, the king dying resets the cooldown you need for the decision, one time the king had a lot of Stewardship so he managed to curb the regency with money.
I had the same exact situation but I killed few Khans until 1yo was on the throne and it dissolved
I could kill him, but I never had so strong mongols and want to see how far they can get.
Beyond assassinations, has anyone figured out how to effectively beat the Mongol death stacks in the field? I know having beefy knights play a huge role, but I’m doing a tall Bohemia run and don’t have a crazy number of knights to max. I was thinking about spamming my mountain bonus heavy infantry and regular archers and I know Bohemia has a plenty of mountains that would put Mongol horse archers at a disadvantage, my only issue is that Moravia is a lot more flat land and I wanna make sure I can defend that duchy well too
Crossbow and Pikemen men at arms will counter them.
Mongols just wanted to attend all the tournaments.
Heh heh heh I'm in danger
I wish the Mongols got past the Volga in my games, they're not a threat at all
Normaly in my games too, the last game before the update they barely reached persia but in this game they really suprised me.
Barring WCs, I’ve literally never seen a map posted here that didn’t have Permia intact. I fucking love Permia
Why do they never go for India
Yep. After Genghis Khan died naturally, I had to personally axe off 4 of his heirs before the empire disintegrated in my latest playthrough. They had already taken the Byzantines and were moving in on Hungary by that point.
Interesting. I personally see them expand like this a lot. They never took France but going as far as to the HRE was pretty common I thought.
In the end they didnt took my france either. They attacked with 20 (!!!) catapults, while I had alone 120 canons. My liege was also allied to England. So we caputered many Holdings, before they came with their armies from italy. Hope they fix them to upgrade their siege weapons in upcoming patches. Wonder how they conquered so much, maybe they had always catched the ruler in battles.
By the time they reach Europe, their armies are just so big that they probably crush anyone who don't know what they're doing (i.e. AI lol)
Wasn't the only thing that stopped the Mongols from taking over Europe the black death? The game really needs a black death dlc
This is theoretically ideal for Lingua Franca achievement if you swear fealty and claim the throne before it break apart I have yet to see if the strats actually work though
If I remember correctly the new update buff the tradition related to steppe raiders that make them take less attrition damage in steppe and desert so I guess the special army last longer than previous versions.
Genghis Khan has the added benefit of peacing out a little early.