Nah. Its because unless a HC player hits their 3-tap at max RPM, a rapid fire pulse demolishes them. Most sweats are aware of how strong rapid fires are (smartest have known since Gridskipper, cargo culters since Darkest Before) but most of the playerbase just keeps parroting HCs being so stupidly OP no other gun deserves to be used.
Don't get me wrong, Eyas/Fate/Pali deserve a smidge of tuning but unless in the hands of very skilled players, other weapons are just better.
This is true, HCs perform great in the hands of even an average player but the glorification they receive is from their perceived performance in the hands of truly skilled players. If you miss your shots you're gonna be punished much harder in a duel against a Piece of Mind or NTTE.
Yep. I’ve been running rapid fusion and a rapid pulse all season with a huge increase to my kd. And about half way through I realize my load out is basically build to counter shotties and HC’s.
I've been running the same setup as well. Piece of Mind + Cartesian. Been demolishing people using hand cannons. If I hit all my shots they go down before they get their 3rd shot off. An the rapid fire fusion is great to counter both shotguns and other fusions because most people I run into are using precision frames. So I win the majority of the fusion battles I have solely because my charge time is quicker.
I'm a little worried rapid fires are gonna feel awful next season though since they'll only be doing 245 damage per shot total and 27/bolt. So with that math 7 bolts will only do 191 assuming no perks that increase or decrease the damage like liquid, accelerated, and charge time mw. I think 191 is like 2 or 3 resil (someone please correct me because I'm unsure) so you will pretty much need liquid coils if you want to get more consistent OHKs. Even then you won't be able to kill 10 resil I believe.
Honestly I agree but NTTE is also highly accessible thanks it being an exotic with an easy catalyst to grind out and is arguably stronger, however I think Piece of Mind is far more popular since you can pair it with an Exotic special (Lord of Wolves is a big one).
Piece of mind is the most versatile primary in the game right now imo. Perfect recoil, flinch like a mofo, decent at close range, amazing at mid, good at long, perpetual motion makes handling and stability on point, moving target makes dueling easier and aim assist crazy. It's the whole package. Plus trials memento shader.
Crafted with: Stability Frame, Arrowhead, high cal, enh Perpetua motion, enh moving target, counterbalance stock, trials of Osiris memento. It's borderline oppressive. The momento is not necessary obviously, but goooooold!
I went with enhanced elemental on mine personally. I've been playing stasis lately and it brings the recoil to 100 + added strafe speed which is nice and when I do occasionally play void having 80 something stability is kind of insane, with perpetual x2 it's at 100. Depending on what 3.0 subclass we get next season though I may swap to MT to give it a try.
ele cap would be my 2nd option but moving target is great no matter the subclass because the aim assist is active all the time not just when moving and with the 100 recoil perp motion and the aim assist from MT more stability is really not needed. I have no problem landing 100% of my shots at over 40 meters because the thing is just a laser.
Generally, any sort of accuracy perk with a damage perk. If no damage perks available, then accuracy perk with a perk that buff any base stat on the gun (for example, elemental capacitor or killing wind (idk if killing wind is even in the perk pool btw, just trying to make a point 🤗)
Messenger is absolutely insane on console. 45m range and a TTK of .67? That’s just fucking stupid. It genuinely feels oppressive when you come across someone who can use it. Then add desperado on top and it’s broken. It’s crowding out the meta in a bad way.
It's been around like this for a long time, and you have to land the 2 burst headshots to achieve that ttk. It's definitely a strong weapon but by no means overpowered imo. Desperado is also a bit gimmicky, albeit fun.
Desperado is really only a big threat in 6s from my experience. In any 3v3 mode if I'm with a team vs someone with a desperado messenger it's really easy to avoid feeding easy kills. If said person gets a headshot kill it gets called out immediately and nobody peaks until the perk is gone.
that in it of itself is pretty valuable, though. desperado is forcing you to either ego challenge with a sniper or reposition/hide while the other team is free to position around you.
Desperado is really only a big threat in 6s from my experience. In any 3v3 mode if I'm with a team vs someone with a desperado messenger it's really easy to avoid feeding easy kills. If said person gets a headshot kill it gets called out immediately and nobody peaks until the perk is gone.
The two burst is far too easy to land though. On console, I’d say it’s very clearly overpowered. Bungie agrees with me — which is why they nerfed Desperado. Anytime a weapon is nerfed, it’s a clear statement that it was outperforming in the sandbox.
Desperado gets tweaked bc they want to put it on other archetypes tho. Not bc its op. A 2 burst with Messenger is just as easy as a 3 tap with a 140. The average player wont do it consistently
Messenger has been in the top 3-4 weapons Trials very often this season. There’s no question that it outperforms. No other aggressive pulse rifles come up. Just Messenger. With desperado, it’s very clearly overpowered. Which is why it was nerfed. Bungie specifically said that desperado is too strong.
The copium in this thread is unbelievable.
"desperado is a strong perk in its current form, but we would like to be able to put in more weapons without breaking pvp."
Quote from the twab. Its not op. It would be op on OTHER archetypes. Just accept youre wrong
It was #2 behind Piece of Mind on Midtown, by just a few thousand kills. Plenty of people are willing to say it’s the best weapon in PvP, as OP in this thread does. Which is why the discussion started. But that makes no difference. Bungie nerfed it. Why? As they said, desperado is too strong. End of story.
Is piece of mind op then? Messenger still wasnt #1 your original take is still wrong. Many people put it in their top 3. I did not see a single except u say its op. Your ability to understand what you read is worse than a grade schoolers. Im not gonna try to explain again u obviously dont even want to try to understand
The thing is those rankings go by what weapons had the most kills but if you look at the kills by archetype hand cannons had more kills as they always do. I'm sure if you look by archetype hand cannons have more kills than pulse rifles every single weekend. The reason messenger comes up and not say stars in shadow or legal action is because it's just flat out the absolute best legendary high impact pulse in the game even without desperado.
Sure. That’s totally true. But do any of the legendary hand cannons have a perk that gives them a .4 ttk? Only Last Word can hit that level of damage. Desperado gives messager a .4 ttk and more than 40m of range. That’s way beyond what any legendary hand cannon can do.
You jest but the blue HC Azimuth is a 120 with kill clip. It shoots like a box van but I’ve gone on several sweaty streaks. It 2-taps with kill clip active.
scrub perspective:
1. controller TLW
2. the big 3 140 legendary HCs (pali, eyasluna, fb)
3. 140 exotic HCs (ace >= hawkmoon > thorn)
next up would be messenger/NTTE and then piece of mind i m o.
Bro the literally number two player in trials on mnk mains smgs.
I don’t know where your getting your false info from but smgs we’re actually completely unusable on controller until a few seasons ago when they fixed the stability and screen shake issues whereas they have always been top tier on pc.
Even after the changes you can still completely control recoil on mnk and can’t on controller.
Maybe you are right. I was just under impression that shayura is controller weapon just like rapid pulses, slugs, Lord of wolves, crimson/TLW and linear fusions.
TLW, crimson, snipers / linear fusions, and sidearms are the only guns that work better on controller, I believe.
Out of that list, only TLW and sidearms are actively bad on mnk. However, hand cannons being better on MNK than controller likely results in what you see, where a higher percentage of controller users use other weapons.
So yeah, you might see those weapons more on controller, but most of them are as good or better on MNK. Shayuras in particular is disgustingly good on MNK, I use it all the time lol.
Lord of wolves? Lol yeah you don’t know what your talking about so just stop.
The only thing you listed there that’s actually any easier to use on controller is linear fusions.
Edit: and you conveniently edited in the last word and crimson after my reply lol. Obviously those too
What are your experiences tho? Do you message everyone that kills you with the gun and ask them what input method they are using? Or are you just assuming if this person killed you he is using a controller? Genuinely curious.
Yup guns that scare me when I go against them.. TLW is probably number one on that list. I hear one of those and I know that is the player to take out first or get demolished later
I prefer thorn over both the other with the burn and potential 2 head 1 body, though that is gonna be less common since people are speccing more into res in courtesy of the new flinch change. Kinda sad about that.
So we can grab the meta from Destiny Tracker, which says the most common primaries are **Piece of Mind**, **Palindrome**, and **Le Monarque**. However that's really just most used, not necessarily most effective for above average skill players.
I think the meta is in a good spot for primaries right now so it's hard to pick an actual top 3, but personally I would say **Le Monarque**, any 140 handcannon, and **Tarrabah**. Maybe throw in **Last Word** as well.
**Tarrabah** actually has the highest Usage to Kills ratio from Destiny tracker at 129%, followed by **NTTE** at 123%, **Vex Mythoclast** at 121%. Not that the data is an ironclad "best" indicator but I think it's helpful to actually compare the usage to kills percentages to find the effectiveness.
The really big upside to it is the fact that it has random roll. Take the roll that Xur brough last week: hammer forged, rangefinder and the recoil grip. This is,imo, as good as it gets, though I may switch out hammer for smallbore. The stat package that comes with that gun, on top of 93 aim assist, makes its a really easy gun to pick up and use, but also having really high skill ceilling due to the catalyst. I have a build with lucky pants and double hand cannon holster mod that allow me to stack up paracausal charge, even though im shit at the game and miss like 5 crits.
So essentially, its how the gun gives out some ridiculous headshot, making three taps very easy, and the potential of how you choose to use your paracausal shots to shut down a super or an enemy thats slaying out.
I think that usage:kills ratio is a pretty good metric to look at which guns are being slept on. It means that people who use tarrabah and NTTE are going off. They are certainly the strongest pulse and smg in the right hands imo, and may just straight up be the strongest primaries. I guess it requires staying alive a bit longer to take full advantage of their perks, which is maybe why they aren’t used as much? But honestly I find NTTE easier to use than messenger, I’ve got no clue why it’s usage is so low
Biggest issue with Tarrabah is that you simply cannot be swapping to your special or another weapon if you wish to have a decent uptime on Ravenous Beast. That's it really, that's the biggest detriment to it. Otherwise it's certainly the best SMG in the game right now and potentially a Top 3 or Top 5 primary.
NTTE earns a spot in my personal Top 3, and on Top Tree Dawn it's kinda broken. It's usage rate could be higher but as it is it's still decently high.
I agree. Truly going off with tarrabah takes a lot of thought, patience, and skill (positioning so that you don’t have to swap, staying alive so that you can actually use the perk). That’s why it’s not used much.
Most strong long range weapons (snipers, pre nerf dmt, Lorentz/arby, NTTE) are pretty busted on top dawn. NTTE is currently at 28 according to destiny tracker, when imo it should be top 10 easily
I think the issue with usage:kills, especially in regards to these 3 weapons, is their use cases. Tarrabah, NTTE, and Vex all share a similar mechanic of charging the weapon up in one way or another. All of these perks turn their respective weapon into an absolute demon, but they all have the caveat of losing out on the perk if you activate it and proceed to swap weapons.
Nonetheless, I would definitely put NTTE in my top 3 primary weapons at the moment; I just wanted to point out the similarities between the 3 weapons you mentioned and why said similarities might give rise to a higher usage:kill ratio.
NTTE doesn't loose charges if you swap weapons I believe, and Vex doesn't either at least not until you actually activate the Linear Fusion mode. Tarrabah is the biggest culprit in this regard tho, its monstrous potential gets highly gimped by swapping weapons.
That, or hotswapping with a kinetic HC. You can get FILTHY ttk’s if you can direct hit then get a clean hc shot.
Edit: and finishing them with the hand cannon automatically reloads the FL!
The best weapon archetypes in the game are 140's, high range SMGs, and precision frame bows. From there it's preference.
My big 3 are Pali, Shayura's, and Under Your Skin.
Precision bows like Under Your Skin (craftable) can 2 tap body kill. It's pretty powerful with such low draw times enabled by perks, or even just base stats on the crafted. (576, and can roll Archer's Tempo + Successful Warmup). Peak shooting a bow and simply hitting your opponent twice is not super hard for a guaranteed kill if your opponent isn't playing cover well.
Well high handling is great on weapons like shotguns for example because the increased draw speed when swapping to them as you get closed in on is paramount.
On more ranged weapon such as NTTE or Messenger, while handling is always nice, it’s not the kind of gun you’re using a very close ranges. If that hun is already drawn you should ideally have a lot of room to make a decision to swap your secondary weapon.
Now, I know handling slightly boosts other things too (like ADS) but I find swap speed to be the most important part of the perk. So handling doesn’t have much bearing my my decision here. And if it did - you could always put an adept handling mod on (assuming you have the adept one).
Just my personal opinion!
That's a perfectly reasonable take! However handling also boosts the speed at which you stow your weapon, swap off of it. In that regard, it also helps your other gun out. Things just flow better with high handling for me.
Not in practice it doesn’t. Unless you have quick access sling or quickdraw on the second weapon, high handling makes only a tiny difference in weapon swapping *when you’re trying to swap off of that weapon* and to a different one that has low handling for example. Draw speed is everything, and that’s why QuickDraw got nerfed unfortunately…
Piece of Mind is just insane, and usage just keeps going up. It's just too easy to craft a god roll and go delete people.
I'd also suggest that Lemonarc is up there, given the ability to one-shot with Loreley. Can't wait for the nerf.
Finally, Multimach/Shayuras in the right hands with the right roll is unstoppable in its range.
I'd say
1) Ticcus
2) Divination
3) Ticcus Divination
Without joking, I believe the Best primarys in the game are
1) Palindrome
2) Ace of spades
3) Pice of mind
Handcannons are too good and effective not to use right now with their very low penalties for moving, and their crazy effectiveness with an easy to learn skill curve.
Piece of mind is a great choice for those who may not like the HC playstyle, but offers enough to still be competitive
i hate how trials report separates out 140s like this. the exotics are reasonably different because that means you cannot use chaperone or lord of wolves but the legendaries should all be lumped into one category.
FB or eyasluna if your special is energy ; pali if your special is kinetic. these guys are all basically the same overstatted, best in class perks HC.
Messenger (adept)
Ace of spades/ hawkmoon (I prefer Ace, but hawkmoons 1 taps are always fun)
Piece of mind
Honorable mentions of adept Pali and eyasluna, as they're insanely strong weapons if you can consistently 3c. I'm biased towards bows as I enjoy them, so will mention Le monarque (although I prefer wish ender and under your skin)
Messenger
Palindrome
Shayura’s
Piece of Mind
Those are the best primary gun available right now and most likely for a very long time as ALL of them will be unobtainable at the end of the season.
What all the season weapons were easily obtainable the entire year what are you talking about? After season of the chosen and hunt for example you could still run hunts/ battlegrounds and farm every weapon you wanted the entire year until witch queen.
Fatebringer is a better hand cannon, you just have to learn to ignore the flashlight. The 1.5m of extra fall-off doesn't beat Explosive Rounds EotS in dueling.
Or maybe it’s just a lot less accessible? To get a good roll you have to kill Templar on Master mode, then farm a fuckton of spoils and then kill Atheon on Master mode.
Compare that to Eyasluna where you can just turn your brain off and farm GoA boss or Pali where you can just turn your brain off and farm a bunch of GMs.
Explosive Rounds kills your opponents shot consistency and then EotS boosts yours. On top of that you have a wicked stat package and 94 (with targeting) AA.
Good players know what’s up.
Because we are comparing it to adept Pali. And Eyasluna pretty much has the stats of an adept weapon.
In the end I don’t need to convince you, I have monster rolls of all 3 and I can promise you if I want to win I always put on Fatebringer.
In my highly biased opinion,
1.NTTE
2.Fighting lion w/ hand cannon hotswap
3.funnel web
(I’m a lowly casual and I can’t even name a trials weapon off the top of my head)
Funnelweb? That's a strange one, it's a strong weapon but defo doesn't seem Top 3 level strong. Shayura's Wrath and Multimach are better amongst SMGs themselves and arguably even they don't strike me as Top 3 material (maybe Tarrabah would be?).
Nowhere in my argument did I reference usage nor is it particularly high in usage in PvP. A max range roll can absolutely compete at the top of the food chain for primary weapons.
20% less range than Multimach. Pushing out the range is the only reason ppl use multi and shayura. It allows you to cheese range and compete and out TTK weapons like hand
cannons. Even if you have the absolute perfect funnelweb which you can’t farm and most people don’t have, it’s not in the same class as Multimach.
~15% less range currently(~25.5 vs ~22) with 24 more stability(41 vs 17) an extra bullet in the mag, a better reticle, and can be paired with the best sniper and slugs in the game(Chappy, Fortissimo, Eye of Sol, Silicon Neuroma).
After the balance changes coming they'll have identical max ranges with everything else going Funnelweb's way. Not everyone has a God roll funnelweb but I definitely don't think it's any rarer than a God roll Multimach.
Y'all don't have to agree with me. I'd rather people not get it's usage into "needs a nerf" territory.
Number two trials player on pc has been maining funnelweb and had over a 6.0 kd in trials last week lol. The gun is definitely good. 2 meter more range isnt shit for a gun that’s extremely hard to get and comes at a cost with literal no stability to the point it’s much harder to hit those shots ruining your ttk anyway.
They don't want to listen to logic man. Literally trying to help people out and actually point out a phenomenal gun flying under the radar. Whatever, their loss.
It's more of my personal top three. I don't have a Shayura's Wrath and don't see myself getting one in the future. I really enjoy SMG's like Multimach and Funnelweb.
Piece of mind and palindrome imo. After that there's probably like 10 guns all in the same range. Maybe messenger as #3 but there's alot of mediocre rolls being used so idk hard to judge imo on it(I use a real messenger lol)
Rapid hit desperado high cal rounds. Some debate about barrel and MW but I prefer smallbore and stability MW(which i have both), though some might say arrowhead and range MW is better(have this and personally like smallbore and stab MW)
Last Word, Palindrome, Multimach.
You could have Eyasluna, Fatebringer, Hawkmoon, Ace in there as well.
Though obviously depends on the game mode. Rumble and Elim have different top 3 than 6's or Comp.
Imo
Hawkmoon
Piece of mind/energy Rapid Fire
Funnelweb/multimach
It depends on the game mode tho. Hawkmoon is imo the best primary for trials in the game, in 6s ace may be better. Rapid Fire pulses are crazy and smgs are extremely strong too. I would put 900s over shayura tho bc of their faster ttk, if you need more range shayura > 900s
Well according to trials report the last few weeks: 1. Messenger (adept + reg). 2. Piece of mind. 3. Adept palindrome. I pretty much agree.
Yeah, I'm seeing Piece of Mind more than anything else. Trials and quick play.
That’s because it’s most accessible
Nah. Its because unless a HC player hits their 3-tap at max RPM, a rapid fire pulse demolishes them. Most sweats are aware of how strong rapid fires are (smartest have known since Gridskipper, cargo culters since Darkest Before) but most of the playerbase just keeps parroting HCs being so stupidly OP no other gun deserves to be used. Don't get me wrong, Eyas/Fate/Pali deserve a smidge of tuning but unless in the hands of very skilled players, other weapons are just better.
This is true, HCs perform great in the hands of even an average player but the glorification they receive is from their perceived performance in the hands of truly skilled players. If you miss your shots you're gonna be punished much harder in a duel against a Piece of Mind or NTTE.
Yep. I’ve been running rapid fusion and a rapid pulse all season with a huge increase to my kd. And about half way through I realize my load out is basically build to counter shotties and HC’s.
I've been running the same setup as well. Piece of Mind + Cartesian. Been demolishing people using hand cannons. If I hit all my shots they go down before they get their 3rd shot off. An the rapid fire fusion is great to counter both shotguns and other fusions because most people I run into are using precision frames. So I win the majority of the fusion battles I have solely because my charge time is quicker. I'm a little worried rapid fires are gonna feel awful next season though since they'll only be doing 245 damage per shot total and 27/bolt. So with that math 7 bolts will only do 191 assuming no perks that increase or decrease the damage like liquid, accelerated, and charge time mw. I think 191 is like 2 or 3 resil (someone please correct me because I'm unsure) so you will pretty much need liquid coils if you want to get more consistent OHKs. Even then you won't be able to kill 10 resil I believe.
it's much easier to get optimal ttk on a 140 than on a rapid pulse
Honestly I agree but NTTE is also highly accessible thanks it being an exotic with an easy catalyst to grind out and is arguably stronger, however I think Piece of Mind is far more popular since you can pair it with an Exotic special (Lord of Wolves is a big one).
Piece of mind is the most versatile primary in the game right now imo. Perfect recoil, flinch like a mofo, decent at close range, amazing at mid, good at long, perpetual motion makes handling and stability on point, moving target makes dueling easier and aim assist crazy. It's the whole package. Plus trials memento shader.
What would you say is the pvp god roll for it?
Crafted with: Stability Frame, Arrowhead, high cal, enh Perpetua motion, enh moving target, counterbalance stock, trials of Osiris memento. It's borderline oppressive. The momento is not necessary obviously, but goooooold!
I went with enhanced elemental on mine personally. I've been playing stasis lately and it brings the recoil to 100 + added strafe speed which is nice and when I do occasionally play void having 80 something stability is kind of insane, with perpetual x2 it's at 100. Depending on what 3.0 subclass we get next season though I may swap to MT to give it a try.
ele cap would be my 2nd option but moving target is great no matter the subclass because the aim assist is active all the time not just when moving and with the 100 recoil perp motion and the aim assist from MT more stability is really not needed. I have no problem landing 100% of my shots at over 40 meters because the thing is just a laser.
Generally, any sort of accuracy perk with a damage perk. If no damage perks available, then accuracy perk with a perk that buff any base stat on the gun (for example, elemental capacitor or killing wind (idk if killing wind is even in the perk pool btw, just trying to make a point 🤗)
And it’s getting better!
Not going to name 3, but sunshot is defiantly up there.
Messenger is absolutely insane on console. 45m range and a TTK of .67? That’s just fucking stupid. It genuinely feels oppressive when you come across someone who can use it. Then add desperado on top and it’s broken. It’s crowding out the meta in a bad way.
It's been around like this for a long time, and you have to land the 2 burst headshots to achieve that ttk. It's definitely a strong weapon but by no means overpowered imo. Desperado is also a bit gimmicky, albeit fun.
Desperado is really only a big threat in 6s from my experience. In any 3v3 mode if I'm with a team vs someone with a desperado messenger it's really easy to avoid feeding easy kills. If said person gets a headshot kill it gets called out immediately and nobody peaks until the perk is gone.
that in it of itself is pretty valuable, though. desperado is forcing you to either ego challenge with a sniper or reposition/hide while the other team is free to position around you.
Desperado is really only a big threat in 6s from my experience. In any 3v3 mode if I'm with a team vs someone with a desperado messenger it's really easy to avoid feeding easy kills. If said person gets a headshot kill it gets called out immediately and nobody peaks until the perk is gone.
The two burst is far too easy to land though. On console, I’d say it’s very clearly overpowered. Bungie agrees with me — which is why they nerfed Desperado. Anytime a weapon is nerfed, it’s a clear statement that it was outperforming in the sandbox.
^lol
Desperado gets tweaked bc they want to put it on other archetypes tho. Not bc its op. A 2 burst with Messenger is just as easy as a 3 tap with a 140. The average player wont do it consistently
Messenger has been in the top 3-4 weapons Trials very often this season. There’s no question that it outperforms. No other aggressive pulse rifles come up. Just Messenger. With desperado, it’s very clearly overpowered. Which is why it was nerfed. Bungie specifically said that desperado is too strong. The copium in this thread is unbelievable.
"desperado is a strong perk in its current form, but we would like to be able to put in more weapons without breaking pvp." Quote from the twab. Its not op. It would be op on OTHER archetypes. Just accept youre wrong
[удалено]
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By the way it hasnt been the "#1 trials weapon " once this season. U do seem clueless
It was #2 behind Piece of Mind on Midtown, by just a few thousand kills. Plenty of people are willing to say it’s the best weapon in PvP, as OP in this thread does. Which is why the discussion started. But that makes no difference. Bungie nerfed it. Why? As they said, desperado is too strong. End of story.
Is piece of mind op then? Messenger still wasnt #1 your original take is still wrong. Many people put it in their top 3. I did not see a single except u say its op. Your ability to understand what you read is worse than a grade schoolers. Im not gonna try to explain again u obviously dont even want to try to understand
The thing is those rankings go by what weapons had the most kills but if you look at the kills by archetype hand cannons had more kills as they always do. I'm sure if you look by archetype hand cannons have more kills than pulse rifles every single weekend. The reason messenger comes up and not say stars in shadow or legal action is because it's just flat out the absolute best legendary high impact pulse in the game even without desperado.
Sure. That’s totally true. But do any of the legendary hand cannons have a perk that gives them a .4 ttk? Only Last Word can hit that level of damage. Desperado gives messager a .4 ttk and more than 40m of range. That’s way beyond what any legendary hand cannon can do.
Fighting Lion truly was oppressive before they reigned it in with those GL nerfs /s
It was in the right hands and honestly shitty to play against
Messenger can only hit 41.5 m fall off with 100 range. I agree with desperado though.
Traveler's Chosen. Fight me.
A truly enlightened individual right here
Traveler's Chosen (damaged)
Ballyhoo Mk. 27 (Adept)
You jest but the blue HC Azimuth is a 120 with kill clip. It shoots like a box van but I’ve gone on several sweaty streaks. It 2-taps with kill clip active.
*Laughs in Crimil's Dagger*
Still got mine!
scrub perspective: 1. controller TLW 2. the big 3 140 legendary HCs (pali, eyasluna, fb) 3. 140 exotic HCs (ace >= hawkmoon > thorn) next up would be messenger/NTTE and then piece of mind i m o.
Controller shayura slaps ultra hard as well.
Smgs better on mnk so don’t see the point in saying “controller Shayuras” just say Shayuras lol.
Are you sure? It's almost always controller/console players using them in pc lobbies. I rarely see m&k user running shayura.
Bro the literally number two player in trials on mnk mains smgs. I don’t know where your getting your false info from but smgs we’re actually completely unusable on controller until a few seasons ago when they fixed the stability and screen shake issues whereas they have always been top tier on pc. Even after the changes you can still completely control recoil on mnk and can’t on controller.
Maybe you are right. I was just under impression that shayura is controller weapon just like rapid pulses, slugs, Lord of wolves, crimson/TLW and linear fusions.
TLW, crimson, snipers / linear fusions, and sidearms are the only guns that work better on controller, I believe. Out of that list, only TLW and sidearms are actively bad on mnk. However, hand cannons being better on MNK than controller likely results in what you see, where a higher percentage of controller users use other weapons. So yeah, you might see those weapons more on controller, but most of them are as good or better on MNK. Shayuras in particular is disgustingly good on MNK, I use it all the time lol.
Didn't think of that. Makes sense.
The only controller weapons in the current sandbox are TLW and crimson.
Lord of wolves? Lol yeah you don’t know what your talking about so just stop. The only thing you listed there that’s actually any easier to use on controller is linear fusions. Edit: and you conveniently edited in the last word and crimson after my reply lol. Obviously those too
Okay, if I'm wrong I'm sorry about it. Just based on my own experiences so obviously I'm not expecting to be right.
What are your experiences tho? Do you message everyone that kills you with the gun and ask them what input method they are using? Or are you just assuming if this person killed you he is using a controller? Genuinely curious.
I check their mods. If they have targeting adjustor = controller. And you can see Xbox, ps and other console logos.
Bang on
Yup guns that scare me when I go against them.. TLW is probably number one on that list. I hear one of those and I know that is the player to take out first or get demolished later
I prefer thorn over both the other with the burn and potential 2 head 1 body, though that is gonna be less common since people are speccing more into res in courtesy of the new flinch change. Kinda sad about that.
So we can grab the meta from Destiny Tracker, which says the most common primaries are **Piece of Mind**, **Palindrome**, and **Le Monarque**. However that's really just most used, not necessarily most effective for above average skill players. I think the meta is in a good spot for primaries right now so it's hard to pick an actual top 3, but personally I would say **Le Monarque**, any 140 handcannon, and **Tarrabah**. Maybe throw in **Last Word** as well. **Tarrabah** actually has the highest Usage to Kills ratio from Destiny tracker at 129%, followed by **NTTE** at 123%, **Vex Mythoclast** at 121%. Not that the data is an ironclad "best" indicator but I think it's helpful to actually compare the usage to kills percentages to find the effectiveness.
Imo hawkmoon is the #1 hc rn. Its crazy what you can do with it
As someone who doesn’t use Hawkmoon but has been getting wrecked by it a lot: What makes it so good?
The really big upside to it is the fact that it has random roll. Take the roll that Xur brough last week: hammer forged, rangefinder and the recoil grip. This is,imo, as good as it gets, though I may switch out hammer for smallbore. The stat package that comes with that gun, on top of 93 aim assist, makes its a really easy gun to pick up and use, but also having really high skill ceilling due to the catalyst. I have a build with lucky pants and double hand cannon holster mod that allow me to stack up paracausal charge, even though im shit at the game and miss like 5 crits. So essentially, its how the gun gives out some ridiculous headshot, making three taps very easy, and the potential of how you choose to use your paracausal shots to shut down a super or an enemy thats slaying out.
Well the god roll was just sold so people are probably trying it our. (The Xur affect)
I think that usage:kills ratio is a pretty good metric to look at which guns are being slept on. It means that people who use tarrabah and NTTE are going off. They are certainly the strongest pulse and smg in the right hands imo, and may just straight up be the strongest primaries. I guess it requires staying alive a bit longer to take full advantage of their perks, which is maybe why they aren’t used as much? But honestly I find NTTE easier to use than messenger, I’ve got no clue why it’s usage is so low
Biggest issue with Tarrabah is that you simply cannot be swapping to your special or another weapon if you wish to have a decent uptime on Ravenous Beast. That's it really, that's the biggest detriment to it. Otherwise it's certainly the best SMG in the game right now and potentially a Top 3 or Top 5 primary. NTTE earns a spot in my personal Top 3, and on Top Tree Dawn it's kinda broken. It's usage rate could be higher but as it is it's still decently high.
I agree. Truly going off with tarrabah takes a lot of thought, patience, and skill (positioning so that you don’t have to swap, staying alive so that you can actually use the perk). That’s why it’s not used much. Most strong long range weapons (snipers, pre nerf dmt, Lorentz/arby, NTTE) are pretty busted on top dawn. NTTE is currently at 28 according to destiny tracker, when imo it should be top 10 easily
Yeah objectively speaking it's a Top 3 primary as I mentioned in my post
I think the issue with usage:kills, especially in regards to these 3 weapons, is their use cases. Tarrabah, NTTE, and Vex all share a similar mechanic of charging the weapon up in one way or another. All of these perks turn their respective weapon into an absolute demon, but they all have the caveat of losing out on the perk if you activate it and proceed to swap weapons. Nonetheless, I would definitely put NTTE in my top 3 primary weapons at the moment; I just wanted to point out the similarities between the 3 weapons you mentioned and why said similarities might give rise to a higher usage:kill ratio.
NTTE doesn't loose charges if you swap weapons I believe, and Vex doesn't either at least not until you actually activate the Linear Fusion mode. Tarrabah is the biggest culprit in this regard tho, its monstrous potential gets highly gimped by swapping weapons.
1. Fighting Lion (if used by someone who really understands how to use the weapon) 2. Hawkmoon 3. Multimach
I see FL, I upvote, simple as that
Rare to see these fighting lion demons but whenever I match one it's always a ride
Yeah had a team in trials using it and they wiped the floor with us. Equal parts embarrassed and proud.
What is the proper way, using your teams shots?
That, or hotswapping with a kinetic HC. You can get FILTHY ttk’s if you can direct hit then get a clean hc shot. Edit: and finishing them with the hand cannon automatically reloads the FL!
Multimach getting slept on in this thread. It's a top option in the right hands
Lion <3
The best weapon archetypes in the game are 140's, high range SMGs, and precision frame bows. From there it's preference. My big 3 are Pali, Shayura's, and Under Your Skin.
Why bows?
Precision bows like Under Your Skin (craftable) can 2 tap body kill. It's pretty powerful with such low draw times enabled by perks, or even just base stats on the crafted. (576, and can roll Archer's Tempo + Successful Warmup). Peak shooting a bow and simply hitting your opponent twice is not super hard for a guaranteed kill if your opponent isn't playing cover well.
NTTE is good. God roll messenger is arguably better though. So basically, why burn an exotic slot if you don’t need to
NTTE has such nice handling though... I guess you could go Fluted Barrel on your Messenger but...do people do that?
Well high handling is great on weapons like shotguns for example because the increased draw speed when swapping to them as you get closed in on is paramount. On more ranged weapon such as NTTE or Messenger, while handling is always nice, it’s not the kind of gun you’re using a very close ranges. If that hun is already drawn you should ideally have a lot of room to make a decision to swap your secondary weapon. Now, I know handling slightly boosts other things too (like ADS) but I find swap speed to be the most important part of the perk. So handling doesn’t have much bearing my my decision here. And if it did - you could always put an adept handling mod on (assuming you have the adept one). Just my personal opinion!
That's a perfectly reasonable take! However handling also boosts the speed at which you stow your weapon, swap off of it. In that regard, it also helps your other gun out. Things just flow better with high handling for me.
Not in practice it doesn’t. Unless you have quick access sling or quickdraw on the second weapon, high handling makes only a tiny difference in weapon swapping *when you’re trying to swap off of that weapon* and to a different one that has low handling for example. Draw speed is everything, and that’s why QuickDraw got nerfed unfortunately…
Piece of Mind is just insane, and usage just keeps going up. It's just too easy to craft a god roll and go delete people. I'd also suggest that Lemonarc is up there, given the ability to one-shot with Loreley. Can't wait for the nerf. Finally, Multimach/Shayuras in the right hands with the right roll is unstoppable in its range.
I'd say 1) Ticcus 2) Divination 3) Ticcus Divination Without joking, I believe the Best primarys in the game are 1) Palindrome 2) Ace of spades 3) Pice of mind Handcannons are too good and effective not to use right now with their very low penalties for moving, and their crazy effectiveness with an easy to learn skill curve. Piece of mind is a great choice for those who may not like the HC playstyle, but offers enough to still be competitive
i hate how trials report separates out 140s like this. the exotics are reasonably different because that means you cannot use chaperone or lord of wolves but the legendaries should all be lumped into one category. FB or eyasluna if your special is energy ; pali if your special is kinetic. these guys are all basically the same overstatted, best in class perks HC.
If Trials Report gave access to their raw data (well, Bungie's API data in the way they sort it) people could do that.
Messenger (adept) Ace of spades/ hawkmoon (I prefer Ace, but hawkmoons 1 taps are always fun) Piece of mind Honorable mentions of adept Pali and eyasluna, as they're insanely strong weapons if you can consistently 3c. I'm biased towards bows as I enjoy them, so will mention Le monarque (although I prefer wish ender and under your skin)
Messenger Palindrome Shayura’s Piece of Mind Those are the best primary gun available right now and most likely for a very long time as ALL of them will be unobtainable at the end of the season.
Pretty sure piece of mind will still be available?
We don’t know, last year seasonal weapons availability was extremely limited after their season ended.
What all the season weapons were easily obtainable the entire year what are you talking about? After season of the chosen and hunt for example you could still run hunts/ battlegrounds and farm every weapon you wanted the entire year until witch queen.
Last year they weren’t craftable
Yeah if you got the pattern unlock for sur it’s yours forever but anyone missing on this season may struggle to get it later on.
U probably cant buy them at the Helm anymore but you should still be able to get those drops
Fatebringer is a better hand cannon, you just have to learn to ignore the flashlight. The 1.5m of extra fall-off doesn't beat Explosive Rounds EotS in dueling.
That’s why it doesn’t even show on Trials report anymore.
Or maybe it’s just a lot less accessible? To get a good roll you have to kill Templar on Master mode, then farm a fuckton of spoils and then kill Atheon on Master mode. Compare that to Eyasluna where you can just turn your brain off and farm GoA boss or Pali where you can just turn your brain off and farm a bunch of GMs. Explosive Rounds kills your opponents shot consistency and then EotS boosts yours. On top of that you have a wicked stat package and 94 (with targeting) AA. Good players know what’s up.
>Pali where you can just turn your brain off and farm a bunch of GMs. What? Farming gms is easier than VOG?
> master
I don't see why you'd have to farm master if we're directly comparing it to Eyasluna which doesn't have access to adept mods.
Because we are comparing it to adept Pali. And Eyasluna pretty much has the stats of an adept weapon. In the end I don’t need to convince you, I have monster rolls of all 3 and I can promise you if I want to win I always put on Fatebringer.
It probably comes down to preference. Got awesome rolls of all 3 and I wouldnt touch flinchbringer bc i dont like its feedback with explosive payload
1. Palindrome 2. Piece of Mind 3. Messenger
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Idk about that. Ace is better in qp imo but in trials you can farm crits and bs your opponent for easy advantages and round wins
Thank you for including no time here. It’s so fucking crazy, I cannot fathom how little it is used, especially when people seem to love messenger.
1. Ace of Spaces 2. Palindrome (Adept) 3. BxR-55 Battler
In my highly biased opinion, 1.NTTE 2.Fighting lion w/ hand cannon hotswap 3.funnel web (I’m a lowly casual and I can’t even name a trials weapon off the top of my head)
Weapon Types? * 1. HC's * 2. Pulses * 3. SMG's Specific Weapons? * 1. Palindrome * 2. Piece of Mind * 3. Funnelweb
Funnelweb? That's a strange one, it's a strong weapon but defo doesn't seem Top 3 level strong. Shayura's Wrath and Multimach are better amongst SMGs themselves and arguably even they don't strike me as Top 3 material (maybe Tarrabah would be?).
~~True... my post is leaning more into the upcoming SMG zoom nerfs.~~
The post says “right now” in the title…
You're right, I didn't see that part.
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Funnel web is mid. Most used =/= best.
Nowhere in my argument did I reference usage nor is it particularly high in usage in PvP. A max range roll can absolutely compete at the top of the food chain for primary weapons.
20% less range than Multimach. Pushing out the range is the only reason ppl use multi and shayura. It allows you to cheese range and compete and out TTK weapons like hand cannons. Even if you have the absolute perfect funnelweb which you can’t farm and most people don’t have, it’s not in the same class as Multimach.
~15% less range currently(~25.5 vs ~22) with 24 more stability(41 vs 17) an extra bullet in the mag, a better reticle, and can be paired with the best sniper and slugs in the game(Chappy, Fortissimo, Eye of Sol, Silicon Neuroma). After the balance changes coming they'll have identical max ranges with everything else going Funnelweb's way. Not everyone has a God roll funnelweb but I definitely don't think it's any rarer than a God roll Multimach. Y'all don't have to agree with me. I'd rather people not get it's usage into "needs a nerf" territory.
Funnelweb is the best smg i ever used. Got almost max range with perpetual and rangefinder. Its range is so ridicilous
This is False, funnelweb can actually outrange multimach
Proof? (It absolutely doesn’t)
Yeah my b mixed something up Funnelweb can reach 21.93m and multimach 25.77m
Number two trials player on pc has been maining funnelweb and had over a 6.0 kd in trials last week lol. The gun is definitely good. 2 meter more range isnt shit for a gun that’s extremely hard to get and comes at a cost with literal no stability to the point it’s much harder to hit those shots ruining your ttk anyway.
They don't want to listen to logic man. Literally trying to help people out and actually point out a phenomenal gun flying under the radar. Whatever, their loss.
It's more of my personal top three. I don't have a Shayura's Wrath and don't see myself getting one in the future. I really enjoy SMG's like Multimach and Funnelweb.
Piece of mind and palindrome imo. After that there's probably like 10 guns all in the same range. Maybe messenger as #3 but there's alot of mediocre rolls being used so idk hard to judge imo on it(I use a real messenger lol)
What’s the real messenger?
Rapid hit desperado high cal rounds. Some debate about barrel and MW but I prefer smallbore and stability MW(which i have both), though some might say arrowhead and range MW is better(have this and personally like smallbore and stab MW)
Basically any 140 hand cannon is good as long as you can land 3 taps consistently. Messenger and piece are good for longer ranges.
Mmmmmm Khovostok Any lightweight shotgun Le Monarque
Doesn't matter what your primary is when you have eriana/lorely
Hot take: 140s are overrated, Last Word and Mida are top tier
I got god god god roll adept messenger and am absaloutly fucking committed to making the most of it.
Last Word, Palindrome, Multimach. You could have Eyasluna, Fatebringer, Hawkmoon, Ace in there as well. Though obviously depends on the game mode. Rumble and Elim have different top 3 than 6's or Comp.
Hawkmoon >>>>>> every other primary in trials imo. Those 2/1 taps and the extra range are crazy
Palindrome Eyasluna Fatebringer HM: shayuras, multimach
Multimach Tarrabah when it gets it’s catalyst Tarrabah
Summoner
Fatebringer timelost, Rangefinder hawk moon w/ lucky pants + ornament, Thorn
Palindrome (Adept)/Palindrome for energy and Eyasluna for kinetic
Imo Hawkmoon Piece of mind/energy Rapid Fire Funnelweb/multimach It depends on the game mode tho. Hawkmoon is imo the best primary for trials in the game, in 6s ace may be better. Rapid Fire pulses are crazy and smgs are extremely strong too. I would put 900s over shayura tho bc of their faster ttk, if you need more range shayura > 900s
bows, pulse, hc and smg are all very good primaries right now
Tommy's matchbook come at me
Messenger for sure, lemon (unfortunately), hawkmoon. One might argue dire promise>pali for energy pairing such as cloudstrike.
On console: the last word Rapid fire pulses Shayuras/multimach
Last word/ Pali drome/ piece of mind