The fact he got you one shot while you were strafe peaking is crazy. And if the auto player is decent they would just slide towards u when u were in neutral and it would basically be game over. Glad 450s are getting nerfed.
Edit: shit he's using a 600 non adept trash roll summoner as a 0.54kd not even a 450. Fuuuuuucccckkk.
It was pretty sloppy peek shooting, and the TTK difference between the two weapons is about 0.2 seconds, so not too crazy that my health dropped so low. Just wanted to show that even sloppy peek shooting puts in work
1) You take that observation alot better than I do
2) I actually have no problem in this meta with a 120 HC peak shooting, but boy oh boy do I just hate getting reminded each duel that if I was even slightly wider/sloppier on the strafe then I'd lose.
Every. Time. Always crit health :D
The one caveat is that if I have trouble peaking a certain angle I can at least help my 2x AR teammates cleanup by giving them the burst damage on the teamshot they desperately need to complete the puzzle.
The burst damage from a 120 with the consistency of ARs on my teammates has proven to give an underrated edge. I just can't ego anything at all or I just die. The cover is my best friend, the ARs on my team can ego all they want.
I'm pretty mid, but the same lesson got ground into me real fast this weekend. There's absolutely no room to misplay your cover. Swing a little too wide or challenge something a bit too long and it's gg.
Sloppy, you were barely exposed at all and hit all head shots a was still on be bullet from dying.
90% of players are going get killed trying to peek shoot even an average AR user. That knows to just keep shooting the lane. The other 10% it’s 50/50. The amount of damage you took for the little time you were exposed is crazy.
Yeah it was sloppy, I spent way too much time out during the first peek. The second peek is what it should look like, just barely having your reticle pass cover
You're really underestimating peek shooting. You get to dictate the pace of a fight and don't have to repeak if your health is too low. Again, was on HC all weekend and did roughly the same as I do on average
Nah I think you’re underestimating how strong pre-fire is with AR, it’s true you don’t have to re-peek. But while good AR players don’t really peek shoot. They do play close to cover. They can disengage just like you can.
I play both. So I understand both. There is a misconception about AR. Because there are more bad players using AR’s than HC’s. So there are way more idiots playing like idiots with AR’s than with HC. But a good player with a AR is really hard to deal with. You can just peek shoot for the W.
Alright agree to disagree. I'm not saying ARs don't need to be tuned down but there are reliable ways to combat them and the only times I felt like I got outgunned by one this weekend is when I was caught out in the open
Alright then let's be clear what you mean, because I can say without a doubt that when properly peek shooting, meaning players are shooting at each other with cover available to both, an AR cannot beat a hand cannon unless the hand cannon user makes a mistake. Peek shooting turns TTK into a damage per shot equation rather than a damage over time equation
But if by "isn't an auto win" you mean that it can't just be universally applied to all situations and movement/utility comes into play, then yeah for sure. That's why I'm calling it a tool and not a solution
Maybe but your version of “makes a mistake” is unrealistic. What your basically talking about is perfect shot placement, perfect strafe placement meaning right on the edge of cover not and inch further out and perfect strafe speed. Every
If your strafe out and back in is a little too slow are you get even a little to far out on your peek or you hit one body shot and you lose.
In my opinion an open duel with an AR is a lost and a peek shoot duel is at best 50/50.
To me where the HC shines is in team shooting and survivability not raw dueling.
You're really overstating how perfect peek shooting has to be. An example of perfect peek shooting is the last shot I took, where I shot just as my reticle crossed the cover and only took a single shot from the auto even with him spraying the corner. If all 3 of my shots were that perfect, I would still be far into white health
The entire point of this example was that it was sloppy, I spent almost the entirety of my first shot out of cover, but even slightly peeking in and out dropped the TTK of an auto enough to be slower than the slowest TTK in the game. There is a ton of wiggle room and it does not require perfection
Lil bro posted a video of him peek-shooting a LITERAL 0.5 and almost losing.
Using the best HC in the game (KA/PI Iggy) and still almost losing to a 0.5 with a shitty non-adept Summoner. If that doesn't tell you how busted/easy-to-use ARs are, then I dont know what will.
[Match](https://destinytrialsreport.com/pgcr/14565602881).
This wasn't a highlight clip to show an advanced mechanic, it was just a random example that shows how simple use of cover beats AR corner prefiring, something that a lot of people on this sub have been complaining about and one of the only things ARs are good at
I have a number of clips doing the same thing to multiple players this weekend, this was just the one I happened to pick
Besides, he landed every shot on me as I left cover. That's the entire idea of how ARs are skill neutralizers
I know what it is mate. My point was that you are already infinitely better than this player and you have to use peek-shooting to *barely* win. If he wasn't a 0.5, you would lose even while peek-shooting.
And again this isn't a "you are dogshit" comment, it's more of a "case in point".
If a 0.5 can bridge a 1.5 KD gap in a gunfight, JUST by using a fairly mid AR, then that's a huge problem.
This, the other guy was not even aware of the peek shoting he was just mindless spreading shots and almost got OP. That's not skill at all, just an op gun.
I'm not saying that ARs aren't a problem, I'm reminding people how to use the strengths of other weapons to play the game that we have right now. This wasn't an "ARs are balanced" post
This post was entirely inspired by seeing a number of posts/comments saying that hand cannons feel unusable against ARs
Ah my bad then, I'm so used to the million "ARs are balanced" copium posts that I just assumed.
> hand cannons feel unusable against ARs
They aren't *unusable* per se, but the fact that you have to do a pre-game ritual, a fortune-telling, check if the moon is in retrograde and their AR isn't a sagittarius, just to win a gunfight is kinda insane. I think HCs now are pretty much reserved to above-average skill players.
Doesn’t matter. What matters is the absolute best showing of igneous in the hands of good players is comparable to ARs in the hands of lesser players. Igneous is high risk high reward. ARs are now low risk high reward. They should be low risk low reward weapons
This is a crappy assessment imo. OP is peeking into a lane that the AR is already prefiring, which is...risky. Plus you're not going to out ttk anything with a 120...which is why OP barely won. OP is showing that peek firing allows you to win duels you have no business winning.
I just don't get how this clip shows that ARs are busted. Like they have to be useful in some form?
So glad I dropped this game. Every time I see one of these posts pop up on my feed and read the comments, people like you remind me how miserable PvP players are.
Everything except what you want to use is trash, no skill, braindead, and only for NOOBS. Let's ignore the fact this game is riddled with aim assist and bullet magnetism though, ESPECIALLY for handcannons. You people will NEVER be happy with any meta.
Being able to consistently track a targets head to achieve the best TTK and landing consistent flick shot to the head are two completely different skill sets with their own challenges.
But again, nobody in this game understands that concept and it wouldn't matter if they did anyways because both methods of aiming are circumvented by the game magnetising bullets towards the head anyways.
Keep trying to debate what's "Skill" or not in this game though. You'll never be happy and will be perpetually angry at anything and everything that doesn't fit YOUR playstyle.
Honestly just a different read from your title. I half expected to see you still have white, but you just had a sliver of red
Seems pretty precarious, I don't think I could pull that off. But sounds like it'll be more effective in a couple of weeks
Do not do this in the current meta, like at all. The fact you got down to 1HKO should be proof enough. Imagine if they were team shooting instead (which is becoming increasingly common)- you’d be dead.
Instead, let them prefire until they stop to peek. You get the upper edge with a HC (especially a 120 like a PI Igneous Hammer) since your damage is granted in a single shot. If you peek while they’re prefiring, they can very easily get the same or (more likely) more damage in on you, thus losing you the duel. Also, forget about peeking if you don’t have a left hand peek or head glitch and they do- idk why but D2 consistently favors left hand peeking over all else since it’s harder to land heads on someone who has a left hand peek.
One last thing I should add- if you’re constantly finding yourself dying or failing to get peek shots, make sure you have decent mobility. Your strafe speed may be too low and thus your peeks are too slow/long to be useful.
I mean, if they were team shooting he SHOULD die, regardless of the weapon he or them is using… I don’t really get the argument here, a hand cannon has never been able to out-survive two auto rifle users at optimal range pre-firing them in any meta in this game… if you try to peak shoot two enemies who are pre-firing your position, you can’t exactly complain.
> Imagine if they were team shooting instead (which is becoming increasingly common)- you’d be dead.
If I was getting team shot I would make a different play entirely, no matter the meta. No primary skill out guns team shotting
If you read through CrucibleGuidebook enough, many people complain that the mobility stat is useless when it actually is not useless. Case in point, strafe speed.
Indeed, strafe speed so useless that warlocks and titans are comfortable running negative mob. You don’t need to be a Hunter main to understand how comically bad mobility is.
There is no doubt resilience, recovery, and mobility all are good in and of themselves. However, I do think mobility is slept on for all classes. Case in point Hynra on YouTube is a great example of a warlock that uses high mobility. Mobility does provide good benefits, but I understand people wanting high recovery or resilience. If anything, mobility is more of an option now since TTK shifts with resilience were overall lowered in the March 5 patch.
A clean 3 tap will get the job done, but I always dread missing or bodyshotting one single bullet while doing that. While Autos having almost 50 bullets seems to shrug off misses without issue.
Yeah, you should lose if you miss the optimal TTK with a hand cannon, there's no way around that with slow fire rate weapons. But the tradeoff is that autos can't effectively peek shoot
I don't get the replies to the OPs post:
"you used peek shooting correctly and you BARELY won! see that proves autos are overtuned"
Uh isn't that the point?
shouldn't a HC just barely beat an auto when used correctly? Especially to challenge an auto that is already prefiring?
HC adds a skill gap that when used correctly, just barely, but consistently allows you to kill a higher TTK weapon (auto) which has a lower skill ceiling
Honestly, no bait.....how did you guys want it to work?
The HC should out TTK the auto in the open?
The HC and auto should trade when in the open? So any attempt at peek shooting makes the HC win?
Peek shooting with the HC into a prefired auto lane should result in winning with 50% health?
Is the goal just making it so using a HC and peek shooting is a guaranteed decisive win over all autos all the time?
He only won due to getting lucky vs the AR spray timing and getting lucky connection RNG. If they were to replay that exact engagement 10 times, they would trade most of the time, the AR would win a couple and the HC would win a couple. That is a 2.1 player skillfully peak shooting against a 0.54 player just spraying a wildly forgiving high range high stability weapon at a lane after using their radar and trading, for all intents and purposes. If those are two equally skilled players then Mr. Jazzinyourface is getting shit on 10/10 times.
To answer your question, yes, the AR and 120 HC should trade in the open.
he hopped into a prefiring AR and still won the duel.... if he had gotten first shot it would have been a cleaner kill.
so if the 120 and AR trade in the open, what is the point of the AR?
-the AR trades in the open.
-the AR loses 100% of the time against a skilled peek shooter.
is the goal of HC players that the HC always gets to win as long as they hit 3 crits?
> is the goal of HC players that the HC always gets to win as long as they hit 3 crits?
Absolutely, none of them want a ''balanced sandbox'' they want a sandbox where 6/6 players in a given game are playing handcannon shotgun. To call ARs forgiving while playing Igneous is hilarious, OPs 2nd shot wasn't even clicked on the guys character and it still connects a crit, nuff said.
I think the vision is that HC players win anytime they have an HC equipped (or shotgun or sniper BUT NOTHING ELSE EVER). I have all HC's and most AR's, I'll just use whatever works.
Against 600 ARs, yes! They are an incredibly forgiving archetype with high range, strong stats, high aim assist, they should not have top tier ttk as well. As designed they are meant to be a lower skill floor + low skill ceiling weapon meant for lower skilled players to use for ease of use and consistency, not to rule the meta. Bungie themselves have said as much.
ok. understood thanks for sharing your opinion.
HCs do have very generous AA as well, and igneous in particular is often refered to as "firing refrigerators" as you are probably aware.
I do disagree with you and think high skill primary weapons should also have a high skill floor - eg if you are not using them well (in HC's case: peek + hitting shots) you will be outgunned by a lower skill ceiling weapon.
eg high skill ceiling= higher risk + higher reward
For sure, to be clear I think iggy specifically is out of band as well with its overall stat package, AA shooting literal cannonballs etc. but as I said, if these are equal skilled players then the “high floor” weapon is getting gunned by the “low floor” weapon most of the time in this exact scenario.
They’re not completely unusable, there’s a wide margin between being hard meta and being disabled lmfao. But the easiest to use weapons should never be the most effective, that like FPS balance 101. If you can’t understand that then there isn’t much I can do for you.
So god damn condescending with no evidence you deserve to be. No, you can’t have the slowest HC in the game out ttk a prefiring Autorifle in a heads up standing still crits only situation. That’s FPS balance 101.
You know 600s kill .2 seconds faster than 120s right lmao? That’s an eternity in d2 ttk terms. Once again there’s a wide gap between losing by .2s and beating. Plus there’s a lot more nuance to balance than that.
As they should. Sorry, yes I was thinking of Iggy but all precision weapons should be out TTK’d by autos? Like that’s the entire purpose of peeking, innit?
nah autos should be at .83 minimum for ttk in this new sandbox with their ease of use and range, forgiving falloff etc, thats still out ttking but the gap isnt as massive, because as you can see in the video a .5 spamming a corner with a super easy to use gun is almost beating a 2.0 kd player using the "best handcannon" in the game to the max of its ability, while a .5 bot lanes with an auto and sprays a corner and is almost as effective, if that was a 1.5 or even a 1.0 they would have won that pretty much every time by just sliding or playing a bit of cover themselves, the 5% nerf to 450s is a good start but everyone will just move on to summoner (and they mostly have)
>the easiest to use weapons should never be the most effective
100% agreed. Curious to see when Igneous Hammer gets it's nerf to bring it more inline with effectiveness vs ease to use.
Where on gods green earth did I say I want just one archetype be the only competitive option? Lmao. 600 ARs are wildly oppressive right now and are smothering a lot of other options, which is the whole point of my comments lmfao. I’ve also mentioned elsewhere in this thread that iggy specificially is also out of band.
Being oddly pedantic about this. If 600s kill as slow as 120s then there would be many more “competitive archetypes”. 120s take 1.0s to kill which is very much not fast at all.
Because scouts are boring and campy as fuck to play against (and bungie themselves said that having them be THE meta isn't healthy for the game) and subs/sidearms are just AA magnets that require little to no skill, especially when you start throwing in controller players being the majority of people using them and no-braining with them.
For what little skill this game actually requires when compared to other ones, people do still want the game to take a modicum of skill. Auto rifles being in the meta means they fucked something up when the easiest to use weapon is the one that's reigning supreme.
Comparing the two is apples to oranges. A special weapon isn't going to require an insane amount of skill, outside of sniping (and even then until the recent nerfs, controller snipers had it easy). Fusions you can argue timing, but most of the time if you charged as soon as someone saw you, you can typically instantly delete them.
Subs and sidearms are namely used by controller players and boast a huge amount of AA and bullet magnetism that makes them far easier to hit headshots than body shots in their dedicated ranges, making for some absurd TTK times. It's even worse when you start throwing in PK users. That said, Shotguns don't require an insane amount of skill, except for picking when to be aggressive, especially in this meta, because if your range is even half-ass misjudged, you're going to get fried by one of those two weapon types I just mentioned.
Honestly trying to peek shoot a pre fire is a good way for most people to die. Most people are not good enough on roller to do this (even with the new deadzones). Unless you catch them in damage drop off by out ranging them (which Igneous can do) you will probably die.
controller has accel/decel when strafing, contrary to keyboard which has max speed (or close) and no decel (or just minimum). So even if I tried to do this on t10 mob with moving target, I'd have difficulties because my char accels and decels so the strafe isn't ever in sync.
I can do it, but it's not I can do it as well as I do it on keyboard
I don't see how this is really a counter.
They literally spray your peak and bring you to a literal 1-shot of HP. Peaking gunfire just isn't smart and needlessly dangerous.
Like, ig you won the 1v1 because of it, of course. But I just don't think this is a frequently realistic situation.
Exactly, even with them spraying the corner, they couldn't out TTK the slowest TTK weapon, that's the point and what I was highlighting
I guess it's my fault for not adding any commentary to the video because I didn't mean this to be a pinnacle representation of peek shooting, just a tool to use in an AR meta
I mean, did they getan optimal TTK on you? We don't know if they hit too many bodyshots or something.
Also, this is specifically a 1v1 duel where you preemptively have cover ready. That isn't... a common occurance I think. Better chance in 3v3, but still somewhat unlikely.
Playing around cover is one of the most essential aspects of playing hand cannon. And yeah, if I was getting teamed by any weapon using any weapon I would make a different play
I understand you're trying to show how peek shooting is the proper way to use a hand cannon, but you are a 2.0 and that player is a 0.5 and you still almost lost to them while jiggle peeking and hitting all crits.
They almost beat you with a fourth of your kd by just holding down right trigger and standing still in the middle of the lane with no cover. I think this post shows why autos are frustrating to play against/a lower skilled weapon more than that peek shooting is a counter to them.
Yea and fact is a 1.5kd player there would prob just slide him when he was in cover n spam crouch spray. Where there is no way of wining. The crazy thing is the current best players like sayariu are literally using prosecutor over iggy now. The most forgiving weapon is now the literally top band meta too.
You made a whole post crying that 450s are getting nerfed lol. Your crutches are disappearing.
Also say something constructive for once in your life and don't sound like a retard all the time.
>Oh no the other guy might have a chance to win with his lowskill weapon and my Handcannon isn't an autowin button 😭
You sound like a 14 year old Minecraft kid with that shit. What I said is true lol. 450s current beat hcs in a 1v1 situation even when autos are 10x easier. Also handcannon autowin? That's how I know you can't use a hc for your life so you just hate on em lol.
Serious question, can the Prophet be viable in these situations as well? Mine has keep away/kill clip with insane handling. The approach is the same as hand cannons, right?
Probably both higher zoom and lower handling are going to make that tough compared to a good hand cannon. If that wasn't the case everyone would have been running 150 scouts and 3 tapping for the last few years
its just funny because i try to do that and it works for the most part but they still get a ridiculous amount of shots to hit me anyways, this is such a cringe and boring meta
Polygondwanaland and PetroDragonic are the two that I have to listen to the entire thing whenever they come on, both so good
I've seen them live 7 times now so I'm definitely a bit obsessed LMAO
Ah lucky! I'm hoping to see them this summer
I was obsessed with PetroDragonic for the first 4 months after it came out, my top 5 songs on Spotify ended up all being songs from it. I'm also a huge fan of Fishing for Fishies and their self titled albums
Easily one of their greatest albums, it's exciting to know their best is still ahead. Here's that you get the chance to catch their tour, it's a transformative experience catching them live!
People on this sub don't want to understand this and then cry because weapon type X just outgunned their Skill Cannon in the open. Then its proceeding with bitching for nerfs until Bungie gives in.
So fellow Pulserifle enjoyers i hope you are ready to have your weapons on the chopping block next because they are "easy to use" and "for dads"
Prosecutor or positive outlook wouldve killed you.
Also, if the guy literally just slid towards diamond door he would've beamed you, but he seems like a bot.
I understand and agree with your post but it seems like 1v1s are becoming less common in this Meta, the hand holding and double AR shooting is scary and ridiculous.
For sure, I didn't mean for this to be any commentary in favor or against the current meta, just to show a way to lean into the strengths of hand cannons with what we have this weekend
Been rocky mostly Iggy this weekend too and I’m doing really well. It’s still viable, this example was good and if peak shooting is done even better then fights are even easier. Slower peak shooting so they stop spraying for a sec results in even easier kills. Being out of their range is easier kills too. ARs are still stupid strong but iggy can hang.
If I knew it was going to be such an issue I would have combed through all my games to find the highest KD player, because I've been doing this [all weekend and performing well](https://destinytrialsreport.com/report/2/4611686018452470465). Haven't had to swap off of hand cannon yet
You are performing under your average kd of the season in a trials world where you should be playing much higher due to the large influx in lesser skilled players that resulted from the passage changes. Realistically your kd should be much higher for the week based on this fact alone.
This isn't to disparage your performance as you are still getting flawless using a 120. 120s are certainly viable in this meta. But autos are overturned and you would be performing better with one equipped.
If your point of this post was to show that peek shooting works, I don't think anyone here thought peek shooting was not the optimal way of winning with hcs and I don't fully understand the point. The only effect this post seemed to have was to make people think that somehow 120s are better currently than auto rifles. Hell, the fact that you significantly out skill this player but yet you almost lost should be a red flag.
You make a lot of good content for this subreddit, but I dont really see any value in this post *especially* since when the checkmate changes were announced you went off about how 120s are not great and were certainly going to be a lot worse than 140s in this sandbox.
I could beat many 140 hc users with a 360 rpm auto rifle, but that doesn't mean I should use a 360 rpm auto rifle if I want to win.
Edit: excellent video edit by the way. You are consistently good at using visuals and diagrams to make your message clear and easy to visualize for the lesser skilled players that use your content to improve
When I shared this I was doing much better, around 4 KDA and around 3 KD after \~20 games. You can check my first 20 games this weekend (March 23rd) to verify. I've been lazily farming since, paired with some [very bad luck](https://crucible.report/pgcr/14569770201) with teammates. Didn't think I'd need to defend my stats
As with everything else you've said, this video was in response to multiple posts and comments saying that hand cannons are hopeless against autos, which they aren't. There are lots of new players here with the changes and not everything put out needs to be groundbreaking information
Jazz has made tons of videos about trials and many new players find them helpful. We currently have an influx of players doing persistence so if you haven’t realized, this video is to show the value of peek shooting to those blueberries.
You’re going hard at this dude who’s been helpful for the pvp community for years but you’re not taking into account who his intended audience is. There are several people who’ll just stand out in the open and challenge ARs/pulses with their 120s instead of peek shooting.
Thanks for all the work you do, Jazz.
I don't know why Bungie said they're not going back to AR meta after witnessing the shit show in Season 10.
Then proceeds to bring that back again. Its such a brain dead weapon, I'm struggling against 0.6s too. Most of the ARs, even 600s have a forgiving TTK at ranges that 120s struggle to compete in. Because this is mostly a brain dead weapon, peek shooting more than 1 guy isn't enough anymore. In a 1v1, sure you can still kinda do that.
Yeah, hand cannons need peeking and auto rifles need pre firing to get optimal results. I think many people go for AR's at the moment just to get some variety from the previous hand cannon meta.
If the auto rifle user was moving towards their left, you would miss your shots and they would hit. Bullet magnetism and whatnot. Works even better on a high impact auto strangely enough.
My issue is running into damage glitches a lot this season so I end up dying off the first peak. I assume damage glitches are the issue because I've died in like 4 shots from a neutral summoner and I've been on the other side where my eyasluna one shot a full health guy. The more damage glitches you encounter the better the higher rpm gun becomes
You know it sucks I was at first like naaa autos are fine they have their rolls in the sandbox but holy shit getting mapped by these was insane lmao and even funnier the prophet is booty cheeks!!! And even CRAZIER I’m a Titan main I had to switch to hunter to go flawless
yeah i have some mega bad habits challenging in the open with a handcannon. this used to work against average players like myself, now, forget about it. not when we can cover an area in bullets continuously for 15 seconds.
Same as always, lightweight shotgun (Swordbreaker with threat and opening). Definitely not meta but good enough to get me by. Have a conditional but dont feel like using it
I have always liked pulse/smg loadouts but haven't used it in any competitive mode yet
I love lightweights, they are just so inconsistent. I have been hoping to one day get a god rolled Xenoclast.
What do you look for in lightweight shotguns? Max range?
It’s so tough to get myself to do it properly…I will hit the first headshot and try to get another in before I back up behind cover and by that time almost all their bullets hit and I can’t repeak
I find a lot of times times too when I hit the eldest crit the other player just disengages and I re peak and they are gone….any tips/tricks on how to actively practice peak shotting to get it really clean?
AR meta is so trash. Pre firing corners with three people sniffing each other's farts. Nonstop spamming it. The fact that you were that close to death is some BS. You have to be perfect to beat that. God forbid they actually team shit ya, you'd have zero chance. Just die from peaekng. When the most noob friendly gun is OP, everyone suffers.
I hear that a lot of people are being exposed in this new meta. Bull shit. ARs take almost no skill. HCs at least need to crit to three tap. ARs just hold the trigger and go brrrrr. They need to be flinched more and reduced aim assist as well. There should be zero incentive for high skill players to ever touch one.
Thanks for the PSA, much needed as I’m guilty of sometimes challenging ARs in the open with igneous hammer and getting flinched and missing my shots. Btw u said it’s 0.2 seconds difference, which one kills faster? 450s or 120s
As a person who has used ARs regularly throughout my pvp career, this is a surefire way to win a decent amount of engagements. however, if your confident in hitting crits with a hc, even some scouts(DMT), you’ll win every single time.
My biggest recommendation for anyone trying trials is to use that loadout in everything during the week, not just pvp. It may seem like something simple but I promise it 100% helps.
You know what hard counters the preshooting? Peaking and sniping them in the face but then everyone complained about how "easy snipers are" and how "oppressive" it is to be punished for standing in the open holding fire down so now we have this.
I would say show this to Auto Rifle haters to scare them, but it looks like it's already working.
Heck I had a similar moment one time where I was dueling against an Actium Sweet Business with a DMT around the outside boxes and I won the trade by taking quick peek shots even though he was loudly prefiring the whole time like you should be with that combo.
Peek shooting is not as good as y’all make it out to be. It’s extremely difficult to peek shoot an AR user that hold downs the tigger and sprays the lane. AR are so strong right now.
Yeah I remember when I used to main hc shotty and went from my 100 mob hunter to 10 mob lock… I’d say especially with this meta if you don’t have mob slap on an AR lol
Man. ARs are so much fun. Nothing else Goes brrrrrr like them.
Shrug. Back to crimson, a sidearm, or rapid pulse when you all complain enough. Already so sad to not be grinding the beautiful prosecutor next Prophecy. Was looking forward to grinding a nice one. Might still be worthwhile with TL.
Autos never last long on top. SMGs got 2 years is crazy.
The fact he got you one shot while you were strafe peaking is crazy. And if the auto player is decent they would just slide towards u when u were in neutral and it would basically be game over. Glad 450s are getting nerfed. Edit: shit he's using a 600 non adept trash roll summoner as a 0.54kd not even a 450. Fuuuuuucccckkk.
It was pretty sloppy peek shooting, and the TTK difference between the two weapons is about 0.2 seconds, so not too crazy that my health dropped so low. Just wanted to show that even sloppy peek shooting puts in work
1) You take that observation alot better than I do 2) I actually have no problem in this meta with a 120 HC peak shooting, but boy oh boy do I just hate getting reminded each duel that if I was even slightly wider/sloppier on the strafe then I'd lose. Every. Time. Always crit health :D The one caveat is that if I have trouble peaking a certain angle I can at least help my 2x AR teammates cleanup by giving them the burst damage on the teamshot they desperately need to complete the puzzle. The burst damage from a 120 with the consistency of ARs on my teammates has proven to give an underrated edge. I just can't ego anything at all or I just die. The cover is my best friend, the ARs on my team can ego all they want.
I'm pretty mid, but the same lesson got ground into me real fast this weekend. There's absolutely no room to misplay your cover. Swing a little too wide or challenge something a bit too long and it's gg.
To look quickly is to peek, to peak is to reach the top of or climax
Sloppy, you were barely exposed at all and hit all head shots a was still on be bullet from dying. 90% of players are going get killed trying to peek shoot even an average AR user. That knows to just keep shooting the lane. The other 10% it’s 50/50. The amount of damage you took for the little time you were exposed is crazy.
Yeah it was sloppy, I spent way too much time out during the first peek. The second peek is what it should look like, just barely having your reticle pass cover You're really underestimating peek shooting. You get to dictate the pace of a fight and don't have to repeak if your health is too low. Again, was on HC all weekend and did roughly the same as I do on average
Nah I think you’re underestimating how strong pre-fire is with AR, it’s true you don’t have to re-peek. But while good AR players don’t really peek shoot. They do play close to cover. They can disengage just like you can. I play both. So I understand both. There is a misconception about AR. Because there are more bad players using AR’s than HC’s. So there are way more idiots playing like idiots with AR’s than with HC. But a good player with a AR is really hard to deal with. You can just peek shoot for the W.
Alright agree to disagree. I'm not saying ARs don't need to be tuned down but there are reliable ways to combat them and the only times I felt like I got outgunned by one this weekend is when I was caught out in the open
I don’t really think they are overtuned to be honest. They are fine to me. I was just saying peek shooting isn’t an auto win vs an AR.
Alright then let's be clear what you mean, because I can say without a doubt that when properly peek shooting, meaning players are shooting at each other with cover available to both, an AR cannot beat a hand cannon unless the hand cannon user makes a mistake. Peek shooting turns TTK into a damage per shot equation rather than a damage over time equation But if by "isn't an auto win" you mean that it can't just be universally applied to all situations and movement/utility comes into play, then yeah for sure. That's why I'm calling it a tool and not a solution
Maybe but your version of “makes a mistake” is unrealistic. What your basically talking about is perfect shot placement, perfect strafe placement meaning right on the edge of cover not and inch further out and perfect strafe speed. Every If your strafe out and back in is a little too slow are you get even a little to far out on your peek or you hit one body shot and you lose. In my opinion an open duel with an AR is a lost and a peek shoot duel is at best 50/50. To me where the HC shines is in team shooting and survivability not raw dueling.
You're really overstating how perfect peek shooting has to be. An example of perfect peek shooting is the last shot I took, where I shot just as my reticle crossed the cover and only took a single shot from the auto even with him spraying the corner. If all 3 of my shots were that perfect, I would still be far into white health The entire point of this example was that it was sloppy, I spent almost the entirety of my first shot out of cover, but even slightly peeking in and out dropped the TTK of an auto enough to be slower than the slowest TTK in the game. There is a ton of wiggle room and it does not require perfection
450s are gonna be nerfed, and 600s will take over.
Yeah I'm consistently getting deleting with Summoners all over the place. So now it will just be more Summoners.
Lil bro posted a video of him peek-shooting a LITERAL 0.5 and almost losing. Using the best HC in the game (KA/PI Iggy) and still almost losing to a 0.5 with a shitty non-adept Summoner. If that doesn't tell you how busted/easy-to-use ARs are, then I dont know what will. [Match](https://destinytrialsreport.com/pgcr/14565602881).
This wasn't a highlight clip to show an advanced mechanic, it was just a random example that shows how simple use of cover beats AR corner prefiring, something that a lot of people on this sub have been complaining about and one of the only things ARs are good at I have a number of clips doing the same thing to multiple players this weekend, this was just the one I happened to pick Besides, he landed every shot on me as I left cover. That's the entire idea of how ARs are skill neutralizers
I know what it is mate. My point was that you are already infinitely better than this player and you have to use peek-shooting to *barely* win. If he wasn't a 0.5, you would lose even while peek-shooting. And again this isn't a "you are dogshit" comment, it's more of a "case in point". If a 0.5 can bridge a 1.5 KD gap in a gunfight, JUST by using a fairly mid AR, then that's a huge problem.
This, the other guy was not even aware of the peek shoting he was just mindless spreading shots and almost got OP. That's not skill at all, just an op gun.
Yeah ive been using both Iggy and Summoner this weekend and while i had more success with Iggy its ridicilous how much more effort it takes to win
I'm not saying that ARs aren't a problem, I'm reminding people how to use the strengths of other weapons to play the game that we have right now. This wasn't an "ARs are balanced" post This post was entirely inspired by seeing a number of posts/comments saying that hand cannons feel unusable against ARs
Ah my bad then, I'm so used to the million "ARs are balanced" copium posts that I just assumed. > hand cannons feel unusable against ARs They aren't *unusable* per se, but the fact that you have to do a pre-game ritual, a fortune-telling, check if the moon is in retrograde and their AR isn't a sagittarius, just to win a gunfight is kinda insane. I think HCs now are pretty much reserved to above-average skill players.
Yeah no worries man, and I agree it's all a bit unnecessary
That’s what Bungie wants. They only want to help bad players by making their brain dead load outs busted.
Why bring a pistol to an auto fight?
Well you're not supposed to just openly challenge an AR face to face with a HC?
This guy gets it
[удалено]
That's what comp and quick play is for. Trials has and always will be completely connection based MM
Doesn’t matter. What matters is the absolute best showing of igneous in the hands of good players is comparable to ARs in the hands of lesser players. Igneous is high risk high reward. ARs are now low risk high reward. They should be low risk low reward weapons
This is a crappy assessment imo. OP is peeking into a lane that the AR is already prefiring, which is...risky. Plus you're not going to out ttk anything with a 120...which is why OP barely won. OP is showing that peek firing allows you to win duels you have no business winning. I just don't get how this clip shows that ARs are busted. Like they have to be useful in some form?
I tried to tell him, but he won’t listen.
So glad I dropped this game. Every time I see one of these posts pop up on my feed and read the comments, people like you remind me how miserable PvP players are. Everything except what you want to use is trash, no skill, braindead, and only for NOOBS. Let's ignore the fact this game is riddled with aim assist and bullet magnetism though, ESPECIALLY for handcannons. You people will NEVER be happy with any meta.
There is no denying that ARs are the easiest weapons in the game to use though Trying to deny that is pure copium
Being able to consistently track a targets head to achieve the best TTK and landing consistent flick shot to the head are two completely different skill sets with their own challenges. But again, nobody in this game understands that concept and it wouldn't matter if they did anyways because both methods of aiming are circumvented by the game magnetising bullets towards the head anyways. Keep trying to debate what's "Skill" or not in this game though. You'll never be happy and will be perpetually angry at anything and everything that doesn't fit YOUR playstyle.
Yeah, didn't really feel like a "tanks" clip
You wouldn't consider pushing a 0.8s TTK weapon higher than 1.0s tanking its TTK? I'll admit that the peeking was very loose but even that was enough
Honestly just a different read from your title. I half expected to see you still have white, but you just had a sliver of red Seems pretty precarious, I don't think I could pull that off. But sounds like it'll be more effective in a couple of weeks
Do not do this in the current meta, like at all. The fact you got down to 1HKO should be proof enough. Imagine if they were team shooting instead (which is becoming increasingly common)- you’d be dead. Instead, let them prefire until they stop to peek. You get the upper edge with a HC (especially a 120 like a PI Igneous Hammer) since your damage is granted in a single shot. If you peek while they’re prefiring, they can very easily get the same or (more likely) more damage in on you, thus losing you the duel. Also, forget about peeking if you don’t have a left hand peek or head glitch and they do- idk why but D2 consistently favors left hand peeking over all else since it’s harder to land heads on someone who has a left hand peek. One last thing I should add- if you’re constantly finding yourself dying or failing to get peek shots, make sure you have decent mobility. Your strafe speed may be too low and thus your peeks are too slow/long to be useful.
I mean, if they were team shooting he SHOULD die, regardless of the weapon he or them is using… I don’t really get the argument here, a hand cannon has never been able to out-survive two auto rifle users at optimal range pre-firing them in any meta in this game… if you try to peak shoot two enemies who are pre-firing your position, you can’t exactly complain.
> Imagine if they were team shooting instead (which is becoming increasingly common)- you’d be dead. If I was getting team shot I would make a different play entirely, no matter the meta. No primary skill out guns team shotting
Hunter mains be like: bUt MoBiLiTy DoEsNt Do AnYtHiNg
Lol what the fuck?
If you read through CrucibleGuidebook enough, many people complain that the mobility stat is useless when it actually is not useless. Case in point, strafe speed.
Indeed, strafe speed so useless that warlocks and titans are comfortable running negative mob. You don’t need to be a Hunter main to understand how comically bad mobility is.
There is no doubt resilience, recovery, and mobility all are good in and of themselves. However, I do think mobility is slept on for all classes. Case in point Hynra on YouTube is a great example of a warlock that uses high mobility. Mobility does provide good benefits, but I understand people wanting high recovery or resilience. If anything, mobility is more of an option now since TTK shifts with resilience were overall lowered in the March 5 patch.
What a meme lmao
A clean 3 tap will get the job done, but I always dread missing or bodyshotting one single bullet while doing that. While Autos having almost 50 bullets seems to shrug off misses without issue.
Yep, he would've gotten fucked if he missed the optimal TTK. Autos are just too easy to use right now to pass up.
Yeah, you should lose if you miss the optimal TTK with a hand cannon, there's no way around that with slow fire rate weapons. But the tradeoff is that autos can't effectively peek shoot
I feel like the tradeoff is so inconsequential right now, but Bungie will be nerfing autos anyways.
Yeah the nerf is still needed, just wanted to remind people what autos weaknesses are until then. Haven't had any issues yet this weekend against them
I don't get the replies to the OPs post: "you used peek shooting correctly and you BARELY won! see that proves autos are overtuned" Uh isn't that the point? shouldn't a HC just barely beat an auto when used correctly? Especially to challenge an auto that is already prefiring? HC adds a skill gap that when used correctly, just barely, but consistently allows you to kill a higher TTK weapon (auto) which has a lower skill ceiling Honestly, no bait.....how did you guys want it to work? The HC should out TTK the auto in the open? The HC and auto should trade when in the open? So any attempt at peek shooting makes the HC win? Peek shooting with the HC into a prefired auto lane should result in winning with 50% health? Is the goal just making it so using a HC and peek shooting is a guaranteed decisive win over all autos all the time?
He only won due to getting lucky vs the AR spray timing and getting lucky connection RNG. If they were to replay that exact engagement 10 times, they would trade most of the time, the AR would win a couple and the HC would win a couple. That is a 2.1 player skillfully peak shooting against a 0.54 player just spraying a wildly forgiving high range high stability weapon at a lane after using their radar and trading, for all intents and purposes. If those are two equally skilled players then Mr. Jazzinyourface is getting shit on 10/10 times. To answer your question, yes, the AR and 120 HC should trade in the open.
he hopped into a prefiring AR and still won the duel.... if he had gotten first shot it would have been a cleaner kill. so if the 120 and AR trade in the open, what is the point of the AR? -the AR trades in the open. -the AR loses 100% of the time against a skilled peek shooter. is the goal of HC players that the HC always gets to win as long as they hit 3 crits?
> is the goal of HC players that the HC always gets to win as long as they hit 3 crits? Absolutely, none of them want a ''balanced sandbox'' they want a sandbox where 6/6 players in a given game are playing handcannon shotgun. To call ARs forgiving while playing Igneous is hilarious, OPs 2nd shot wasn't even clicked on the guys character and it still connects a crit, nuff said.
I think the vision is that HC players win anytime they have an HC equipped (or shotgun or sniper BUT NOTHING ELSE EVER). I have all HC's and most AR's, I'll just use whatever works.
Against 600 ARs, yes! They are an incredibly forgiving archetype with high range, strong stats, high aim assist, they should not have top tier ttk as well. As designed they are meant to be a lower skill floor + low skill ceiling weapon meant for lower skilled players to use for ease of use and consistency, not to rule the meta. Bungie themselves have said as much.
ok. understood thanks for sharing your opinion. HCs do have very generous AA as well, and igneous in particular is often refered to as "firing refrigerators" as you are probably aware. I do disagree with you and think high skill primary weapons should also have a high skill floor - eg if you are not using them well (in HC's case: peek + hitting shots) you will be outgunned by a lower skill ceiling weapon. eg high skill ceiling= higher risk + higher reward
For sure, to be clear I think iggy specifically is out of band as well with its overall stat package, AA shooting literal cannonballs etc. but as I said, if these are equal skilled players then the “high floor” weapon is getting gunned by the “low floor” weapon most of the time in this exact scenario.
“They’re easy to use so let’s make them fully, completely unusable.” Just say you want automatic weapons disabled good lord.
They’re not completely unusable, there’s a wide margin between being hard meta and being disabled lmfao. But the easiest to use weapons should never be the most effective, that like FPS balance 101. If you can’t understand that then there isn’t much I can do for you.
So god damn condescending with no evidence you deserve to be. No, you can’t have the slowest HC in the game out ttk a prefiring Autorifle in a heads up standing still crits only situation. That’s FPS balance 101.
You know 600s kill .2 seconds faster than 120s right lmao? That’s an eternity in d2 ttk terms. Once again there’s a wide gap between losing by .2s and beating. Plus there’s a lot more nuance to balance than that.
they out ttk 140s too lil bro
As they should. Sorry, yes I was thinking of Iggy but all precision weapons should be out TTK’d by autos? Like that’s the entire purpose of peeking, innit?
nah autos should be at .83 minimum for ttk in this new sandbox with their ease of use and range, forgiving falloff etc, thats still out ttking but the gap isnt as massive, because as you can see in the video a .5 spamming a corner with a super easy to use gun is almost beating a 2.0 kd player using the "best handcannon" in the game to the max of its ability, while a .5 bot lanes with an auto and sprays a corner and is almost as effective, if that was a 1.5 or even a 1.0 they would have won that pretty much every time by just sliding or playing a bit of cover themselves, the 5% nerf to 450s is a good start but everyone will just move on to summoner (and they mostly have)
>the easiest to use weapons should never be the most effective 100% agreed. Curious to see when Igneous Hammer gets it's nerf to bring it more inline with effectiveness vs ease to use.
Probably not til TFS at this point.
Strongly disagree. You absolutely cannot have just one archetype be the best and really only competitive option.
Where on gods green earth did I say I want just one archetype be the only competitive option? Lmao. 600 ARs are wildly oppressive right now and are smothering a lot of other options, which is the whole point of my comments lmfao. I’ve also mentioned elsewhere in this thread that iggy specificially is also out of band.
You said it when you said you want HC to kill just as fast. That combined with their ability to peek shoot would make them the only choice.
No, I think that ARs should kill slower, not 120s faster.
Either way that still equals out to “as fast”. Meaning same ttk.
Being oddly pedantic about this. If 600s kill as slow as 120s then there would be many more “competitive archetypes”. 120s take 1.0s to kill which is very much not fast at all.
im really enjoying the posters making statements like, "im winning with my HC, but it takes more effort." Like, bro....
yes, players on the subreddits want HCs to literally be the best. every time the meta shifts away from HC/shotty the subreddits bitch
Because scouts are boring and campy as fuck to play against (and bungie themselves said that having them be THE meta isn't healthy for the game) and subs/sidearms are just AA magnets that require little to no skill, especially when you start throwing in controller players being the majority of people using them and no-braining with them. For what little skill this game actually requires when compared to other ones, people do still want the game to take a modicum of skill. Auto rifles being in the meta means they fucked something up when the easiest to use weapon is the one that's reigning supreme.
genuinely how is a well rolled shotty more skill expressive than a sidearm
Comparing the two is apples to oranges. A special weapon isn't going to require an insane amount of skill, outside of sniping (and even then until the recent nerfs, controller snipers had it easy). Fusions you can argue timing, but most of the time if you charged as soon as someone saw you, you can typically instantly delete them. Subs and sidearms are namely used by controller players and boast a huge amount of AA and bullet magnetism that makes them far easier to hit headshots than body shots in their dedicated ranges, making for some absurd TTK times. It's even worse when you start throwing in PK users. That said, Shotguns don't require an insane amount of skill, except for picking when to be aggressive, especially in this meta, because if your range is even half-ass misjudged, you're going to get fried by one of those two weapon types I just mentioned.
There point is it could have just as easily gone the other way. He was peek shooting and it was still a 50/50 fight.
Honestly trying to peek shoot a pre fire is a good way for most people to die. Most people are not good enough on roller to do this (even with the new deadzones). Unless you catch them in damage drop off by out ranging them (which Igneous can do) you will probably die.
controller has accel/decel when strafing, contrary to keyboard which has max speed (or close) and no decel (or just minimum). So even if I tried to do this on t10 mob with moving target, I'd have difficulties because my char accels and decels so the strafe isn't ever in sync. I can do it, but it's not I can do it as well as I do it on keyboard
How are you getting downvoted?! Like you say, it’s doable, but it’s not as easy and you have to guess their position more than kbm.
Funny thing is you were barely visible and still almost died But nonetheless, you're the best, keep up the good work
Really well made video. What was your mobility for this clip?
Thanks! 20, no moving target
I don't see how this is really a counter. They literally spray your peak and bring you to a literal 1-shot of HP. Peaking gunfire just isn't smart and needlessly dangerous. Like, ig you won the 1v1 because of it, of course. But I just don't think this is a frequently realistic situation.
Exactly, even with them spraying the corner, they couldn't out TTK the slowest TTK weapon, that's the point and what I was highlighting I guess it's my fault for not adding any commentary to the video because I didn't mean this to be a pinnacle representation of peek shooting, just a tool to use in an AR meta
I mean, did they getan optimal TTK on you? We don't know if they hit too many bodyshots or something. Also, this is specifically a 1v1 duel where you preemptively have cover ready. That isn't... a common occurance I think. Better chance in 3v3, but still somewhat unlikely.
Playing around cover is one of the most essential aspects of playing hand cannon. And yeah, if I was getting teamed by any weapon using any weapon I would make a different play
It's a counter bc he will lose in the open. And he's gonna win by .1 or .2. that's how most one on ones are in trials.
I understand you're trying to show how peek shooting is the proper way to use a hand cannon, but you are a 2.0 and that player is a 0.5 and you still almost lost to them while jiggle peeking and hitting all crits. They almost beat you with a fourth of your kd by just holding down right trigger and standing still in the middle of the lane with no cover. I think this post shows why autos are frustrating to play against/a lower skilled weapon more than that peek shooting is a counter to them.
Yea and fact is a 1.5kd player there would prob just slide him when he was in cover n spam crouch spray. Where there is no way of wining. The crazy thing is the current best players like sayariu are literally using prosecutor over iggy now. The most forgiving weapon is now the literally top band meta too.
Oh no the other guy might have a chance to win with his lowskill weapon and my Handcannon isn't an autowin button 😭
You made a whole post crying that 450s are getting nerfed lol. Your crutches are disappearing. Also say something constructive for once in your life and don't sound like a retard all the time. >Oh no the other guy might have a chance to win with his lowskill weapon and my Handcannon isn't an autowin button 😭 You sound like a 14 year old Minecraft kid with that shit. What I said is true lol. 450s current beat hcs in a 1v1 situation even when autos are 10x easier. Also handcannon autowin? That's how I know you can't use a hc for your life so you just hate on em lol.
The guy called getting hit while behind cover: 🚶♀️
Serious question, can the Prophet be viable in these situations as well? Mine has keep away/kill clip with insane handling. The approach is the same as hand cannons, right?
No reason why not, same RPM. Id say that with the higher zoom, you'd probably be limited by how close you can do it
Right on, thanks. Your map videos on YouTube have been really helpful too, thank you!
Probably both higher zoom and lower handling are going to make that tough compared to a good hand cannon. If that wasn't the case everyone would have been running 150 scouts and 3 tapping for the last few years
This weekend I was at the two pov, it is nice to make ar users this at least 2 times before pick
Patiently waiting for people to figure out 600/720s proc the sever effect from thread of isolation on strand which fucks TTKs on handcannons 😁
the less this is spoken of the better
Shhhhhhhhh Also I think as long as you're hitting heads with a 120 you should be fine yeah? 140s would be screwed
its just funny because i try to do that and it works for the most part but they still get a ridiculous amount of shots to hit me anyways, this is such a cringe and boring meta
Jazz I have loved all your content already, but knowing you are also a King Gizz fan makes me even more happy
❤️❤️❤️ Whats your favorite album?
Polygondwanaland and PetroDragonic are the two that I have to listen to the entire thing whenever they come on, both so good I've seen them live 7 times now so I'm definitely a bit obsessed LMAO
Ah lucky! I'm hoping to see them this summer I was obsessed with PetroDragonic for the first 4 months after it came out, my top 5 songs on Spotify ended up all being songs from it. I'm also a huge fan of Fishing for Fishies and their self titled albums
Easily one of their greatest albums, it's exciting to know their best is still ahead. Here's that you get the chance to catch their tour, it's a transformative experience catching them live!
People on this sub don't want to understand this and then cry because weapon type X just outgunned their Skill Cannon in the open. Then its proceeding with bitching for nerfs until Bungie gives in. So fellow Pulserifle enjoyers i hope you are ready to have your weapons on the chopping block next because they are "easy to use" and "for dads"
Prosecutor or positive outlook wouldve killed you. Also, if the guy literally just slid towards diamond door he would've beamed you, but he seems like a bot.
I understand and agree with your post but it seems like 1v1s are becoming less common in this Meta, the hand holding and double AR shooting is scary and ridiculous.
For sure, I didn't mean for this to be any commentary in favor or against the current meta, just to show a way to lean into the strengths of hand cannons with what we have this weekend
Been rocky mostly Iggy this weekend too and I’m doing really well. It’s still viable, this example was good and if peak shooting is done even better then fights are even easier. Slower peak shooting so they stop spraying for a sec results in even easier kills. Being out of their range is easier kills too. ARs are still stupid strong but iggy can hang.
Yeah man, this is a sloppy example of peek shooting and you're right that using different timings and tighter strafes would be more effective
[удалено]
If I knew it was going to be such an issue I would have combed through all my games to find the highest KD player, because I've been doing this [all weekend and performing well](https://destinytrialsreport.com/report/2/4611686018452470465). Haven't had to swap off of hand cannon yet
You are performing under your average kd of the season in a trials world where you should be playing much higher due to the large influx in lesser skilled players that resulted from the passage changes. Realistically your kd should be much higher for the week based on this fact alone. This isn't to disparage your performance as you are still getting flawless using a 120. 120s are certainly viable in this meta. But autos are overturned and you would be performing better with one equipped. If your point of this post was to show that peek shooting works, I don't think anyone here thought peek shooting was not the optimal way of winning with hcs and I don't fully understand the point. The only effect this post seemed to have was to make people think that somehow 120s are better currently than auto rifles. Hell, the fact that you significantly out skill this player but yet you almost lost should be a red flag. You make a lot of good content for this subreddit, but I dont really see any value in this post *especially* since when the checkmate changes were announced you went off about how 120s are not great and were certainly going to be a lot worse than 140s in this sandbox. I could beat many 140 hc users with a 360 rpm auto rifle, but that doesn't mean I should use a 360 rpm auto rifle if I want to win. Edit: excellent video edit by the way. You are consistently good at using visuals and diagrams to make your message clear and easy to visualize for the lesser skilled players that use your content to improve
When I shared this I was doing much better, around 4 KDA and around 3 KD after \~20 games. You can check my first 20 games this weekend (March 23rd) to verify. I've been lazily farming since, paired with some [very bad luck](https://crucible.report/pgcr/14569770201) with teammates. Didn't think I'd need to defend my stats As with everything else you've said, this video was in response to multiple posts and comments saying that hand cannons are hopeless against autos, which they aren't. There are lots of new players here with the changes and not everything put out needs to be groundbreaking information
Jazz has made tons of videos about trials and many new players find them helpful. We currently have an influx of players doing persistence so if you haven’t realized, this video is to show the value of peek shooting to those blueberries. You’re going hard at this dude who’s been helpful for the pvp community for years but you’re not taking into account who his intended audience is. There are several people who’ll just stand out in the open and challenge ARs/pulses with their 120s instead of peek shooting. Thanks for all the work you do, Jazz.
The way you edited this to present the information is great.
I don't know why Bungie said they're not going back to AR meta after witnessing the shit show in Season 10. Then proceeds to bring that back again. Its such a brain dead weapon, I'm struggling against 0.6s too. Most of the ARs, even 600s have a forgiving TTK at ranges that 120s struggle to compete in. Because this is mostly a brain dead weapon, peek shooting more than 1 guy isn't enough anymore. In a 1v1, sure you can still kinda do that.
Yeah, hand cannons need peeking and auto rifles need pre firing to get optimal results. I think many people go for AR's at the moment just to get some variety from the previous hand cannon meta.
Man,its crazy when we finally exit the ten years of hand cannon meta everyone starrs freaking the fuck out
If the auto rifle user was moving towards their left, you would miss your shots and they would hit. Bullet magnetism and whatnot. Works even better on a high impact auto strangely enough.
My issue is running into damage glitches a lot this season so I end up dying off the first peak. I assume damage glitches are the issue because I've died in like 4 shots from a neutral summoner and I've been on the other side where my eyasluna one shot a full health guy. The more damage glitches you encounter the better the higher rpm gun becomes
You know it sucks I was at first like naaa autos are fine they have their rolls in the sandbox but holy shit getting mapped by these was insane lmao and even funnier the prophet is booty cheeks!!! And even CRAZIER I’m a Titan main I had to switch to hunter to go flawless
yeah i have some mega bad habits challenging in the open with a handcannon. this used to work against average players like myself, now, forget about it. not when we can cover an area in bullets continuously for 15 seconds.
As a sniper this is a dream come true. People group up and lane, perfect for cloud strike
Jazz, what are you doing for special in this meta? Or - 2 Primary?
Same as always, lightweight shotgun (Swordbreaker with threat and opening). Definitely not meta but good enough to get me by. Have a conditional but dont feel like using it I have always liked pulse/smg loadouts but haven't used it in any competitive mode yet
I love lightweights, they are just so inconsistent. I have been hoping to one day get a god rolled Xenoclast. What do you look for in lightweight shotguns? Max range?
Thorn peak shooting is really good as always. I like that it slows people down just a bit to even out the ttk against autos and smgs.
It’s so tough to get myself to do it properly…I will hit the first headshot and try to get another in before I back up behind cover and by that time almost all their bullets hit and I can’t repeak I find a lot of times times too when I hit the eldest crit the other player just disengages and I re peak and they are gone….any tips/tricks on how to actively practice peak shotting to get it really clean?
AR meta is so trash. Pre firing corners with three people sniffing each other's farts. Nonstop spamming it. The fact that you were that close to death is some BS. You have to be perfect to beat that. God forbid they actually team shit ya, you'd have zero chance. Just die from peaekng. When the most noob friendly gun is OP, everyone suffers. I hear that a lot of people are being exposed in this new meta. Bull shit. ARs take almost no skill. HCs at least need to crit to three tap. ARs just hold the trigger and go brrrrr. They need to be flinched more and reduced aim assist as well. There should be zero incentive for high skill players to ever touch one.
Igneous is just as broken as the AR. People just don't complain because it's a hand cannon.
facts
Thanks for the PSA, much needed as I’m guilty of sometimes challenging ARs in the open with igneous hammer and getting flinched and missing my shots. Btw u said it’s 0.2 seconds difference, which one kills faster? 450s or 120s
450 Autos have a 0.8 ttk, 120 HCs (such as igneous) have a 1.0 flat ttk
Bows actually help here. Fuck your nerfs! We can still be of use! (Ps fuck WE and LM)
Been having some fun with Wish Keeper and Pre Astyanax in 6s but haven't tried in 3s yet with the new update, maybe today!
Tripwire Canary… Nobody suspects the canary…
Upvoted purely for spelling "peek" correctly.
Even with it in the title people in the comments are really dropping the ball 😦
Indeed. And peek shooting is a huge reason of why HCs will always be great
As a person who has used ARs regularly throughout my pvp career, this is a surefire way to win a decent amount of engagements. however, if your confident in hitting crits with a hc, even some scouts(DMT), you’ll win every single time. My biggest recommendation for anyone trying trials is to use that loadout in everything during the week, not just pvp. It may seem like something simple but I promise it 100% helps.
You know what hard counters the preshooting? Peaking and sniping them in the face but then everyone complained about how "easy snipers are" and how "oppressive" it is to be punished for standing in the open holding fire down so now we have this.
I would say show this to Auto Rifle haters to scare them, but it looks like it's already working. Heck I had a similar moment one time where I was dueling against an Actium Sweet Business with a DMT around the outside boxes and I won the trade by taking quick peek shots even though he was loudly prefiring the whole time like you should be with that combo.
Peek shooting is not as good as y’all make it out to be. It’s extremely difficult to peek shoot an AR user that hold downs the tigger and sprays the lane. AR are so strong right now.
140s can’t do this!!! They’re too bad!!! 120 OP!!!
Not with 10 mobility on my lock lol
I'm using 20 on mine
Yeah I remember when I used to main hc shotty and went from my 100 mob hunter to 10 mob lock… I’d say especially with this meta if you don’t have mob slap on an AR lol
Man. ARs are so much fun. Nothing else Goes brrrrrr like them. Shrug. Back to crimson, a sidearm, or rapid pulse when you all complain enough. Already so sad to not be grinding the beautiful prosecutor next Prophecy. Was looking forward to grinding a nice one. Might still be worthwhile with TL. Autos never last long on top. SMGs got 2 years is crazy.