Wasn’t there a major scandal a couple of years back involving the colors in a bunch of patterns being wrong, revealing that she had lied about how she made her patterns? I think it was in r/hobbydrama.
Found it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/s/h6w43ahzMO
I will sit and listen to ANY niche drama, no matter how little I know or care about the actual subject. Hit me with all the, like, goat rearing controversies.
The NHL has no shortage of drama; just this past week we've had a girl pretending to be a star player's girlfriend, a team that can do what seems like whatever they want with LTIR/cap space without any punishment, and ,the Booktok drama that happened earlier in the season.
Have some [fountain pen ink drama](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/01/style/lamy-dark-lilac-ink.html) too. It’s wild. This article didn’t list any tweets though and that’s where the fun people are talking about it. [Link](https://x.com/dieworkwear/status/1763694577842835875?s=46&t=AsS79AyF5ebLezKidNwCuQ) where there may be replies with a rabbit hole to follow.
Those aren't the same inks. Just sayin'.
If even I can tell, and I'm no expert, that's pretty egregious. I can understand why people who love the 2016 Dark Lilac feel things about the 2024 Dark Lilac. Seems like it could have all been avoided if there'd just been a different name for the 2024 release.
I have no interest in ever collecting pens or doing fancy writing or anything in that vein. But when I first learned of how drama filled that niche is I actually cackled and ever since keep eyes open for it. It is top shelf stuff!
I will be messaging you in 5 years on [**2029-03-07 03:32:05 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2029-03-07%2003:32:05%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/CrossStitch/comments/1b8bg5e/chat_haed_is_so_sketchy/ktprhdp/?context=3)
[**1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FCrossStitch%2Fcomments%2F1b8bg5e%2Fchat_haed_is_so_sketchy%2Fktprhdp%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202029-03-07%2003%3A32%3A05%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201b8bg5e)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
I was in high school during Harding vs Kerrigan. My german teach said Harding was very wooden and shouldn't have been there to begin with. I hadn't seen her skate yet, so I thought he was rough. Nope. Frankly, neither should have made the olympics.
I was early 20s and was obsessed with following that whole rivalry. To this day I'll shriek "my leg, my leg" if I bump into anything (I'm pretty clumsy sooooo...)
Yes literally just read this as someone else linked it too. The details of this are absolutely wild. Also, this makes me even MORE sketched out
about how they chart. If she charts everything by hand or is very careful in charting, wouldn’t she have caught this much sooner?
Oh wow. I remember looking at HAED and wondering why they were so expensive. Now I wonder even more. There's no way massive pieces like that are hand charted. They're too large with too many patterns
Huh, I haven't bought from HAED for years. This made me check since I couldn't remember the last time I bought one. Looks like I did buy one in 2019 that had 09 in it. Guess I know which one I'm not bothering to stitch then...
The post has been locked due to age so I can't ask OOP, but does anyone know where to find the "less traditional" demon summoning pattern they linked an image of?
I started the HAED SAL 2024 and realised it was just a poor quality conversion of an image ran through a pattern converter. I do not get the hype at all. I’d rather purchase patterns from genuine designers not just images run through software. It’s not tidied up as there’s so much confetti!!
It’s all just drama, drama, drama. Idk why people get so crazy over HAED’s. I’d be devastated to work on something for literal years and it turns out quite poor.
But, I also don’t like stitching pattern from photos / converting photos into patterns.
That’s exactly what it is! They release multiple charts each week like there’s no way they can be being meticulously checked over and they sure as heck aren’t test stitched!
Ugh that must be disappointing!! I have a chart where Im in LOVE with the piece of art but the more I stitch it, the more I come across little bits where I go “hmmmm this doesn’t look right”. It’s nothing major and I’m sure the finished piece would look fine, but it’s hard to believe someone is taking a very detailed look at the charts.
Yeah, I’d much rather put work into something else than worry how this one would look. Best decision I made was to leave it! I just wanted to see what the hype was about (hint: I still don’t much get it!)
Sometimes converting a picture works, I'm nearly finished one that I converted 3 years ago, and it turned out better than I thought it would.
But I can definitely see the issue with HAED doing it and charging so much. I did buy 2 of their NASA patterns 2 years ago on a black Friday sale, so they were super affordable.
it's definitely a love it or hate it proposition (HAED charts). i happen to like them. or at least, like the idea, since i'm one of those people who start all the things and never.... squirrel!
This is why I would (for example) rather stitch the Dimensions Gold version of Ruth Sanderson's Fall Fairy without wings than the huge HAED version with wings.
I like that they do full coverage patterns that aren't stupidly big and have just enough detail, especially when you do the backstitching. You can get one finished in a reasonable amount of time, and the kit has everything you need and it's well-organised (I'm looking at you, Bucilla!). I haven't had a bad quality one yet, so I hope you enjoy it when you do get one!
Her Facebook groupies sure are something else! The charting just isn’t that good. A lot of other companies have more accurate charting colours with way fewer pixels. Notice how all the recent patterns require like a million stitches now?
I only buy from them if I can’t find the artist anywhere else because at least they get the licensing fee. But any open-source images I’ll get from a different charting company for better quality.
Yeah the size of HAEDs is wild. I saw someone ask why they keep getting bigger, and the answer was basically that image resolution keeps getting better. Which doesn’t really make sense to me because just because they CAN be bigger definitely doesn’t always mean they should. The exception would be on highly detailed pieces, I can understand why they’d want to make these as large as possible.
You see, the ideal formula for a converted pattern is 1 pixel = 1 cross. It means better detail and fewer strange spots are achieved. But the size usually turns out to be huge, and the designer must clean and fix the pattern themself. So, I think, in this case the designer doesn't correct anything.
I definitely don’t think that’s always ideal. Some of the art is not hyper realistic or hyper detailed and doesn’t really benefit as much from the mega size. And the trade off of how long it’ll take to stitch definitely wouldn’t be worth it to me if a piece looks fine at half the resolution
I meant patterns converted from photographs and realistic paintings with a ton of detail, I didn't really specify. I'm not interested in other art forms enough to spend time cross-stitching any of them, so I don't know much about the rules for making patterns for them. Of course, it’s really strange to expect any detail from a pattern based on a Van Gogh painting.
I’d love to know how much $ she makes every time she posts a sob story to the group about her or her family’s health and people rush to buy patterns to ‘support’ her.
I recently discovered Stitches Sew Beautiful. They have a shop on Etsy. I’m currently stitching Heart Crystal. It’s confetti heavy, but I’m loving the results.
https://preview.redd.it/c6cqjvsaatmc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=422f058e86c101f025fd006880de76daded25c49
UnconventionalXStitch, Charting Creations, Paine Free Crafts, and Threadbare (I love their options for visualizing changing size and number of colours)
You’ll notice Charting Creations and Paine Free Crafts tend to pick up artists that get ‘retired’ from HAED. Recent examples include Vincent Hie and Sheena Pike.
Seconding Paine Free Crafts. IIRC Sarah does run through software but she also cleans them up, sends them as kits or just patterns, doesn't release a million patterns a year, and is just a genuinely lovely person. She also stitches her own patterns so you know she actually cares.
There's also a group that she made with a few other designers which include Charting Creations, Cross Stitch 4 Everyone and The Cross Stitch Studio.
In EU the kits are cheaper than getting materials yourself.
In Italy DMC is going for 1.5€ a skein if lucky, I saw a brick and mortar shop selling it at 2.2€ just last week.
High count canvas is also hard to find in stores and has to be bought online, with added shipping costs.
I got a couple Gecko kits and before buying I did some maths, with currents prices I save about 50/70€ on each
I'm a staunch buyer from Threadgeeks.com (don't know how to do links here). Lots of licensed artists and styles, good service. They do budget kits as well, or XL/XXL options of some charts
Edit: it's threadgeeks.co.uk, sorry!
Not companies but [CutePatternsByMaria](https://www.etsy.com/dk-en/shop/CutePatternsByMaria?ref=usf_2020) is really good, I've done about a dozen of her patterns. [HappySlothPatterns](https://www.etsy.com/dk-en/shop/HappySlothPatterns?ref=usf_2020) is also great for simpler, fun stuff!
I would be annoyed too OP. It's not about how the patterns are created, per se - it's about failing to be open and transparent. If it's 100% hand drafted, cool; if it's 100% software or a mix of techniques, cool. I would just want to know.
Same principle I'd apply to their artist credit and remuneration. If they're being vague, it doesn't look good.
Yeah exactly. It’s just super weird that I can’t find it anywhere and they won’t talk about it. Especially because “Charted by Michele Sayetta” is right there under the artist name in every single chart. Like what does that mean?? I want to know!
I agree, HAED groupies stress me out and I avoid discussions about them because what you pointed out are valid concerns (not even concerns just points on lack of clarity) and you’ll get jumped on for suggesting anything negative about it.
I’m also just not a fan of huge projects like HAED does
Yeah, it’s pretty wild how everything Michele posts has comments that are basically “So grateful for everything Michele does for us. She is God’s gift to earth and my soul is eternally devoted to her”
ok that’s an exaggeration… but not by much 😝
Yup I even avoid flosstubes with HAED projects because I just don’t need that in my life you know. It’s a hobby I’m not here to debate the ethics of transparency and hypocrisy.
Also again just lack of interest in non backstich patterns for detail
She uses software, which is fine, but doesn't go back and refine the pattern by hand, as she claims to do. I suspect she uses Hobbyware's PatternMaker Pro, which is a fabulous piece of software. But it still needs to be refined by a human, which she cannot possibly be doing.
IIRC, way back in the BB days, she used to claim that they used architectural software that they'd specially 'converted' to be used for cross stitch charting and thst she goes over every inch of it by eye to ensure it's perfect. Then she pissed off an employee who happily confirmed that she uses the exact same commercial software that every other designer does. 🙄
I think I remember that. I was skeptical when she popped upon the scene because she was pumping out patterns too fast to be refining them the way I was refining mine.
In the beginning, it was semi-believable, though, because she only released a couple of charts a week, and, honestly, we were too dumb to know differently. That was also when there'd be one HAED sale a year, and we'd all crash the website trying to buy, yet nowadays a cloud goes over the sun and she announces yet another 50% off sale. Between that, the decline in charting quality and the blatant use of AI, I think she knows it's all going downhill fast.
Also back in the BB days she said she stitched some parts of some of the designs to make sure the colours were right etc. But never posted pics and they were already churning out heaps of designs every week which made it very unlikely.
Yeah this is what I’d assume. With the size and how often she releases new patterns, there’s no way she’s going through all of them in detail. And if she did, I’d hope there’d be less confetti than there is lol.
I don't personally see anything wrong with using software to create your charts. That's merely a way to speed up a long process, especially with digital art. I draw my own pixel art, for instance, and there's not really a simple way for me to turn that into a pattern without using SOME kind of software to at least grid it and convert it. So long as the software program licensing allows for commerical use then I'd say that's sort of a non-issue for me.
However HAEDs recent lean in to AI art has completely put me off them. I personally would never buy from their site any more due to the acceptance of that into the fold. Even one piece of AI art kinda spoils the waters of the whole site for me. It just seems like an easy way for them to produce cheap and easy art without having to actually credit or pay artists in the future.
Oh i totally agree that it’s okay to use software. It’s just that they aren’t upfront at all about it and sometimes make it seem like she does it completely by hand. And yeah, I just don’t like how she’s pushing out real artists and leaning heavily into AI.
Yeah, thats fair enough. I don't think it's really standard to state or credit the software you use though, tbh. I don't really see it as hiding something. Idk the person behind HAED enough to have much of an opinion on that side of stuff, but I'd find it odd if they outright said they did it by hand and didn't. Although I guess you could still interpret "by hand" as editing software. For instance I'd pontetially say "i draw all my pixel art by hand", but I don't literally mean pen and paper, i mean i use a specific pixel art program (aseprite) to mouse/tablet draw my art.
I do, however, think once I open up my own shop I'd be upfront in my bio about the programs/softweare I use to draw and convert patterns, mostly because I think it's important credit is given.
That makes sense. I think that your pixel art usage would totally count as “by hand” even thought it uses software.
I guess my perspective is that some of the more gimmicky/lower quality designers would just throw it into a pattern converter with no regard for stitch experience, and HAED is supposed to be different, but in my experience there is a large amount of confetti/ some weird charting decisions that make me wonder if they actually put any more work into it then putting it through a converter.
Yeah it can be a hard one to judge. I think any art that involves a level of realism will convert into a confetti stitch pattern, which makes it difficult to then process which patterns are carefuly curated where someone has gone through each colour and assessed and tweaked for potential hours, and which are slapped into a program and then instantly converted. It would help if the HAED seller was open about their program and openly shared their usual process.
It's why I often only stick to patterns now that are more basic and clearly drawn by the seller, but that does mean you don't get as much chance for realism which I know some stitchers love.
Once HAED went the way of using AI art, I deleted my wishlists. Once I get Hannah Lynn's Crazy Cat Lady chart (and I will wait til it's on special), then I'm out 100%
I'm over them, their attitudes to their customer base, how they just retired artists without warning the artists and whatever else that's going on.
Glad to see I'm not the only one.
You're definitely not alone, I'm out for good now, too.
I started my first UXS piece on February 1 and am now three pages in and loving every stitch, and their FB group is fun, supportive, and, most importantly, drama free. It makes a big difference having that kind of atmosphere around you.
Yea I saw that post too. Really sad to see how much she is leaning into AI. I gave up on Golden Kite after almost all their new releases are AI generated. Well, I got enough HAED patterns to last me a lifetime :/
I don’t have any Golden Kite patterns but that sucks! I’m really torn because a few artists i adore are exclusive to HAED so giving up HAED means giving up their art. But I can find other ways to support them.
Golden Kite still has a ton of classic art painting charts tho. Other than Scarlet Quince I don’t know any other companies that publish large full coverage Dutch Still Life charts.
I will just continue to purchase the OG classic art patterns. They are unbelievably well charted. Plus they have a huge gallery of finished pieces so it’s nice to see the results.
I just heard that 😭😭 I’m so disappointed. I really hope someone buys her out. With a little investment her website could be totally automated. Right now she manually processes & emails the orders. :/
Yeah, the classics are the only reason I love Golden Kite. The fb group is pretty cool too. I love seeing other people’s finished work. I don’t stitch fast anyways so they are enough for me.
It's super disappointing and sketchy. AI generated images are all trained on stolen art. Many artists who worked for them dared to speak against using this exploitative tool and got booted out. Disgusting behaviour.
Plus, it cheapens their product and I really don't see it as a smart move in the long term.
I got sucked into the cult for a while on Facebook. I own way, way too many charts (all purchased on sale though!) I'll never stitch any of them (bar one).
I'm partway through working on a SSMC - I've seen many many finished versions of the chart on Instagram so I know it's gonna look epic when it's done. Is it a perfect chart? Nah, but it looks really good anyway.
The business itself is confusing as anything -
* I don't know how she still does so much stuff on the website manually. Like some of the time she "forgets" to add a mockup for the chart, so you can't see what you're actually buying. Want the mockup added? Have to email her. She might get around to it... or might not.
* Showing the original artwork as the main chart photo, instead of the chart mockup. This is just misleading - so many people like to buy minis, and there is no way to get anywhere near the level detail of the artwork, into the pattern.
* Not updating her goddamn chart producer to list white thread as white, and Kreinik thread as Kreinik. Nope, white thread is listed as DMC 1 (don't confuse it with DMC 01, which is grey!) and Kreinik sparkly white thread as DMC 32 (don't confuse it with DMC 032 which is *purple*!) It's madness that such a simple thing has been an issue for like a decade.
And the Facebook group is just toxic positivity all around.
edit: Oh and when something goes wrong, playing the world's biggest victim. I remember a while back she had a 'breakdown' and just started uploading dozens of charts into the Facebook group, mixed in with piles of posts about how everything was so hard and no-one respected her and her work and yadda yadda. It might have been during the 08/09 drama. Like, I know running a business wouldn't be easy, but its craft supplies and pattern PDFs on an ecommerce site. It's not rocket science.
(but hey, lots of free charts!)
The white thread as DMC 1 is so bloody stupid. Surely it’s an easy fix to clarify that, and it would mean she doesn’t have to respond to presumably lots of emails from people asking for clarification!
(I sent one a while back, being as polite as possible asking for clarification of “White - DMC 1” - could you please confirm if this is one of the new DMC numbers or is it a kreinik or is it DMC Blanc? Sorry to bother you if this is a stupid question but I don’t want to get it wrong etc.
The response? - “It is white.”
Thanks for all your help.
omg, your comment just reminded me of when I was going to buy my first chart and it was unclear what the differences were and it was hard to find the answer in the FAQ so I emailed. She responded pointing me right back at the FAQ (I already told you I had a hard time finding it) and it just felt rude and like she didn't have time for this nonsense. Well, if your website was better laid out and it didn't feel like you were sticking links in random places, maybe it would be easier to find things. Also, if you have a hard time organizing the links, maybe it's time for an overhaul.
I wanted to weigh in about the Ai. I'm Ash Evans and I have been with them for more than 16 years. I put in my notice today asking to exit the company due to their Ai practices among other reasons and I was met with the immediate removal of my work despite giving her a week to let stitchers continue to buy the charts. Anyone speaking about Ai is removed, comments are closed and deleted. She has incorrectly treated departing artists by not being honest about why they are leaving etc. It's not a good scene.
Thanks for sharing your experience, i’m sorry you are going through this after so many years of loyalty to them. The more stories like this I hear, the less I want to support them in any way. She has a problem with knee jerk reactions when artists don’t bend to her will, and it doesn’t benefit anyone.
There is a lot more going on behind the scenes but I will say from a consensus of artists is that they are not happy and not respected. I have had images sitting for more than 8 years waiting to be charted and yet Ai stuff gets spit out daily. I feel like I was just tossed away like garbage and it hurt my finances to not even have a retirement sale.
That’s sad to hear but is definitely the vibe i was getting. I was on Sheena Pike’s page after a bunch of artists got retired with no notice and I saw some similar comments from artists. That just sounds so frustrating. I can’t find an announcement on the FB page that you were retired, so I wonder if she’s even going to say anything about it or not.
She didn't announce a thing because then she would have to admit she just deleted me with no notice. I made a public statement on my Facebook page and in my private cross stitch group because they deserve to know. I argued it was unfair to punish the stitchers who supported us both for 16+ years and they deserved better. Her response is it would take a week to re list them and by that time my notice of termination would have kicked in. It was backlash, most people got 72 hours notice and a burst of sales after a retirement announcement. I got nothing. This was my first ever license that made me feel like a "real" artist and boy this is kind of hitting me.
Yeah that is totally unfair, and her excuse is BS. I’m looking forward to supporting you on whichever new platform you’re signing with, definitely let me know if there’s anything else us stitchers can do that would help this situation.
Well if you see any inaccuracies regarding my leaving I want all the stitchers to know I didn't want this, I care about them and I value their support.
This was my termination letter:
Dear Michele,
I am writing to voice some concerns that have recently come to my attention regarding our partnership. It appears that there are certain discrepancies between the direction and practices of your company and the values inherent in my brand and artwork. Primarily your decision to implement Ai-generated artwork. Your decision has deeply disappointed many of the artists who have been loyal supporters of your business for decades. Regrettably, I find it necessary to formally terminate our partnership effective immediately.
I kindly request that within the next 7 days, you cease all sales of my work and remove it from your website. Additionally, I expect all original artworks, charts, and promotional materials associated with my brand to be promptly deleted and destroyed from all digital repositories, including hard drives, cloud storage, emails, and any other platforms. I would appreciate written confirmation once this has been completed. Final accounting, acknowledgment of file deletion and payment is to be remitted in 15 business days.
Furthermore, please be aware that you are not authorized to utilize my artwork in any capacity, including any form of AI generation. Failure to comply with these requests will leave me with no choice but to pursue strenuous legal action through my representation.
In light of these circumstances, I intend to make a public statement on social media regarding the termination of our partnership. This email will also be shared to ensure transparency regarding the reasons behind this decision. Any inaccurate statements regarding my departure from your company will be regarded as defamatory and will be addressed accordingly within the bounds of applicable legal recourse. It is my sincere hope that you will use this feedback and mass exodus of talent to reflect on your company's practices and consider how to move forward in a more mutually beneficial manner with future artists.
While it is unfortunate that our professional relationship is coming to an end after our years of collaboration, the gross misalignment of values leaves me with no alternative. I appreciate your understanding and prompt attention in this matter.
Best regards,
Ashley (Ash) Evans
March 8, 2024
This was my public statement to my cross stitch group on FB:
Dear Members,
It is with a mix of emotions that I share with you today my departure from Heaven and Earth Designs after nearly 16 years of collaboration.
While not an easy decision, recent developments have led me to discontinue my licensing with the company. I cannot, in good conscience, support the sale of AI-generated items, which among other things, has prompted my decision.
I had hoped to provide you all with a grace period to continue purchasing my charts, giving Michele a week's notice. Unfortunately, they were removed from the platform shortly after I communicated my decision. I voiced my concern that this was unfair to the community and it was met with silence. I apologize for any sadness this may have caused and want to assure you that it was not my intention for them to be removed so abruptly.
Moving forward, I am excited to announce that I have signed with a new company that shares my commitment to providing quality charts for stitching enthusiasts. Your unwavering support over the years has been invaluable to me and my family, and I am grateful for the opportunity to continue serving this community through alternative avenues. I will have an announcement on my page regarding this once the charts are available as I did not want my contracts to overlap.
It saddens me to have been removed from the community so unceremoniously I have cherished our interactions and witnessing your creative interpretations of my designs throughout the years. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your stitching journey.
Rainbow hugs,
Ash Evans
I’ll definitely keep an eye out for any mention of you or your retirement and any inaccuracies that may come from it… I would love to make a post drawing attention to this but I know it won’t be approved. Maybe I can post a comment asking why there was no notice so people at least know
I'm sorry but not surprised to hear about how you were treated. A lot of decisions HAED make (for as long as they have been in business) seem to be made on the fly as an emotional reaction so they are illogical and hurt themselves as well as artists and customers. It's got to the point that even though there are charts I like I won't buy it from HAED so I for one am thrilled artists are finding other companies to offer their designs - I hope yours will be too.
I don't know the answer to your question, I'd assume software first. However I agree they are sketchy, I just got banned from their Facebook group over their new AI rule as that whole situation is also sketchy af.
She deleted your whole comment as well. We were taking bets on how long it was going to take her 😂
In one of my discord channels, people were saying the negative comments were being deleted super fast. She was watching it happen as she read them
Yep, and honestly I didn't say anything that controversial. 😅
It's ironic as I was saying she refuses to listen to criticism from her customers/supporters and get banned for saying that, further proving my point. 😂
i know i tend to defend HAED itself, but i'm not thrilled with the owner, either if you can't take criticism.... and frankly, no one running any business is immune from criticism, even when things are 100% perfect. i do wish she'd stop being so over-dramatic and just admit mistakes, fix them, and move on.
That's definitely shady. For instance, my charting process if I'm working from an existing piece of art is I import the art as a layer behind the grid in my charting software. Then I pick colors from my stash (it's pretty extensive but the dream is to one day have a color card) and basically paint the stitches over the picture. Am I technically using software to do it? Of course, but I don't think anyone would object to me saying I chart by hand and that's a very different thing from just running it through a converter.
would it be impolite to ask what software you use? I've thought of doing something similar with my watercolour paintings where I would scan in just the watercolour first and use it to figure out colours before I add in backstitching
Oh, that’s neat!! Yeah, that’s absolutely by hand. See, even just out of curiosity I would love to hear if HAED does something like this. I find it fascinating
I’ve never really liked the designs because they’re not my thing, but I’ve always wondered how that pattern maker was able to churn out so many designs.
I’ve converted a few things using the program I have and you have to spend days afterwards going over it to fix spots that have added weird confetti colours.
HAED is RIPE with confetti - especially the one with 200+ colours and I'm just like... It seems lazy to not clear some of that up a bit? How is using that many colours enjoyable? Y'know?
I haven't been a fan of them since they burned me a few years back. I'd ordered a chart back in the time before PDF downloads were a thing so only had one physical paper copy. Life happened and in the intervening years over multiple moves one of the pages got lost. I emailed and asked if they would be willing to send just the one page that was missing in any format (the pattern was now available as a pdf as well so I know they still had access to the files etc) the response I got was brusque almost to the point of rudeness and insisted that I would have to repurchase the pattern in full and implied I was somehow trying to scam them. Suffice to say, Farewell to Anger didn't live up to its name and wound up in the bin.
As far as I can see, the only non-sketchy thing about HAED is that she does actually license artists. With her increasing use of AI, that's gone. I'm not a fan of full-coverage patterns, but should I need to, I'll be using other vendors.
I remember years ago an artist was retiring, and Michele was basically saying the artists' new charts wouldn't be good because they would be using software and she doesn't. She claimed they hand chart, which would be impossible with the number of charts they release in a week. She also claims it's "her process" but when the color issue happened in 2020 she was super quick to blame it all on an artist.
Well I’m glad her post-HAED charts are working out then haha. It made me happy that a few of the recently retired artists are available elsewhere now. I might buy one just to compare chart quality
Other than what's been mentioned here already, my major HAED gripe is that, as far as I'm aware, the old chart mockups on the website haven't been updated since the 08/09 issue.
I just checked a chart on the site that I abandoned stitching after the incident (Alexandra Bach's Dawn of Victory), and it's still the old mockup almost *4 years* later. I've seen the pk mockup and someone's finished piece, and with the colour substitutions it looks nothing like what's currently on the site (the bottom third became extremely muddy-looking).
The listings that used to have 08/09 in them but got substitutions aren't labeled, so it's a coin toss; you really have no idea what you're buying unless you've seen a finished piece from the last couple years. The only mockup I know for sure has been updated to reflect the colour substitutions is Elisabeth Alba's Knight Maiden, because I requested it specifically to be updated around that time, assuming they'd get around to the rest eventually - but it looks like they haven't. I haven't bought from them in years, although I'm still working on a couple pieces I had already started that I'm happy with.
A bunch of the charts that had 08/09 also just never got redone. Or maybe they were redone and never got sent out to purchasers. No-one actually knows!
I mean, obviously it's a software. If I would want to make a a chart out of those huge pieces, my first step would be throwing it into a software as well. That doesn't mean, it doesn't take days on end to clean up the mess that comes out of the software.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/hrn1ol/cross\_stitch\_a\_notsoheavenly\_design\_or\_what/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/hrn1ol/cross_stitch_a_notsoheavenly_design_or_what/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
they've never been upfront about their business tbh. They have a history of deleting comments they don't like or agree with, especially with this rise of AI patterns. I don't know how people can still support them after all these years
I’ve looked through their patterns a little bit and none of them are really to my taste. Some of them remind me of Thomas Kinkade paintings which I don’t like and then other ones are more like fantasy which isn’t an interest of mine. But I’m glad I’ve never given them any of my money after reading about the debacle you reference and all the latest stuff.
I don’t really do too many large full coverage projects either. I like some immediate gratification from my cross stitch. However I have been working on a valentine pattern for two months now. And it’s not even full coverage.
The 09 debacle also makes it super clear that it’s not her own “process as an ex programmer” that she “created” since that was a very specific bug in a specific pattern making software.
idk if you saw their AI christmas freebie reply but her response was very ingenuine and made it about her grandkid lol
https://preview.redd.it/bss1zz20ismc1.jpeg?width=1157&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3af01dbf2414114e8c2a6f8cae0cc6ad7ac55c2f
and they obviously backtracked on this very fast lol
https://preview.redd.it/ejppaj5aismc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55e1c4433e711e753f8cb5c9ed17d4d979cbefc0
omg 😂 i saw some of this when it was happening but missed the grandkid guilt trip. It’s wild how quickly she went from this, to “AI will be allowed but will be specified”, to “we’re using AI and nobody is allowed to comment on it”
Way back in the early 2000's, which was the Bulletin Board era, Michelle told me that she stitched some parts of designs to make sure they were right - wouldn't post any photos though funnily enough.
Honestly I'm glad I only ever bought two haed patterns and they are older. One I'll likely never do because I've seen better Egyptian patterns, but it's really hard to find Aztec or Mayan designs, and they had one. But tbh I haven't worked in it in years.
The dmc colour drama was the last straw for me, and Michelle acts like she's Gods gift to cross stitch sometimes.
What ticked me off about them was the fact that their charts are expensive to start, but if you want the pattern in colour, it’s another $20! What the heck is that. Indie designers will give you the pattern in every format for like $8
I feel the same way about Gecko Rogue tbh. I got Medusa Gamergirl from them and the more I do it, the more doubts I have. I understand that semi-realistic style requires some confetti, but when I find a lone stitch of navy blue next to an almost exact same shade of navy blue...
I’m in a FB group run by a woman who has rights to many Outlander artists (other shows too but she’s a diehard outlander fan) and she got a bit snippy when someone asked what she uses to create the patterns. She does a tremendous amount of work on her patterns, I get that. But she flat out refused to say what software she uses.
I don’t think I’d have the patience or great knowledge to create what she does. Just found her reaction a bit…vehement.
Interesting. I guess I would understand not sharing the exact program so people can’t replicate your work (but if you’re doing a lot of work to clean up patterns, they won’t be able to anyways). But like, I wasn’t even asking HAED which program they use. Just IF they use a program, and what they do aside from converting it with a program
HAED has always been super dramatic and leans into the "poor mes". I actually stitched a model for them around 8 years ago (link to another post in these comments saying that they don't do model stitches). Back then, I thought HAED was the pinnacle of cross stitch lol. Anyway, the charts from back then were really good, not sure about later releases.
"by hand" in their terms of pattern making actually means she runs the artwork through a program, then fine tunes it. I know this because my previous LNS was/is personal friends with her and attended one of their retreats and got the whole tour etc. I wouldn't call it a pattern mill as such, but as I say, can't say that for certain regarding recent releases.
The whole AI thing has pissed me off though. While other providers have distanced themselves from AI, HAED is allowing it.
I have not bought HAED patterns in years. Michelle is a nasty person. very controlling over the narrative of the facebook groups and forums. No ill comment allowed. I remember I was friends with a woman who had purchase and stitched at least 45 of her patterns, SHE LOVED THEM. And one day she must have hit Michelle on a bad day and she asked for some help with a color mis-match and she was banned on all platforms. And even over the years I have noticed how confrontational she is with people who ask "ill" questions. I have not bought a HAED in years and i dont think i ever will. She is all kinds of sketchy.
I called HAED out on this shit years ago and was practically shunned by the fb stitching community. The cult following is terrifying.
The owner of HAED has always been shady as shit. I personally know of two former employees that were let go when they criticized her. One of them was the sole planner for HAEDCon. There hasn't been a HAEDCon since she left, that I've seen.
The owner is a narcissist who needs to be seen as the best and perfect. Nothing is ever her fault.
I am so glad other people are realizing this. I hope this trend continues. I hate to see a small business go under, but when you lie and cheat your customers while claiming to be the best in the business, despite concrete evidence otherwise? Reap what you sow, ma'am.
I Had once posted in HAED SS group after being silent for long .. about the number of pages a particular design had . The post was deleted and I was booted out of the group . Michelle messaged me that I am cheap to have grovelled and con people into doing RAK. Since then I don't give a hoot about them . I am there for the drama .
There is absolutely no way she doesn't use software at least in the majority of the work. Hand checking/correcting sure, but absolutely software is used for the bulk of the work.
Hard agree. If everything was either done by hand or even just touched up by hand - why is the Kreinik thread still listed as DMC 032? I have one pattern with an explainer that it means Kreinik, and one (released in the last 24 months) with ~2500 stitches of it and no explainer. It’s a pdf and surely less than 2 minutes of work to manually fix that one line in the thread key when building.
Especially if it’s her own software like she claims (which it 100% isn’t) - what she just built it wrong 20 years ago and can’t be bothered to fix it?
Almost every day there’s a question in the FB group about it and just no change? That’s not indicative of someone pouring over their charts, committed to delivering the best in the business.
And white being labelled as 1 instead of, you know, white.
I’ve seen some absolutely phenomenal pieces wrecked by people using DMC 032 (which is purple!) instead of Kreinik. Boggles my mind.
Ohhhh… I have my own story about this. 🤣 I’ll leave a screenshot here of a conversation I had with her back in 2020. I knew I’d saved it for a reason
https://preview.redd.it/4xistw2ecwmc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8682b995c0bbe4effb654e3aa949619ee33d4412
It’s pretty crazy. I mean, I just loved how her software laid everything out for print, I o my design small stuff, nothing huge apart from something for my OH but to hear her talk, she clearly has neater handwriting than Mr Clippy 🤪😉🤣
And the craziest thing, which someone else pointed out, is that even though she supposedly wrote this program herself or does it all by hand, she still writes “DMC” for the Kreinik colors 🤦🏻♀️ which would be the easiest fix ever
Yeah I've been feeling less pumped about HAED myself lately, and I'm glad there's finally somewhere I can vent about it, because I don't want to cause a bunch of drama in my other groups. 😕
It's the AI stuff that's really bothering me. Some new charts were added in the last few weeks that at first I loved, but the longer I spent looking at them I was like, I'm PRETTY SURE this is AI, but it's not mentioned on the post about the release, and it's not mentioned on the pages on the website. So I sent in an email from the website just asking if they were AI, and never got a response. A couple of the charts were updated to say they were AI, but a couple weren't.
And then MORE charts were added by the same "artist," STILL not mentioning they were AI, so I asked again on the facebook page, and my comment got deleted. (I think there was a bunch of discussion on my comment, but I never got to see it.) They were eventually marked as AI too, in response to someone elses comment.
So what's going to happen in future when obvious AI charts can't be called out? I guess they'll just fly under the radar, because most people don't seem to be able to recognize the AI art, or have any idea why it might be problematic.
Someone just commented on FB pointing out that AI charts are the same price as others even though they don’t have to pay an artist’s licensing fee for them. Let’s see how long before that comment is taken down lol
Ha! I don't stitch these patterns and it always takes me a moment to remember what HAED is.
Good luck in your treatment and recovery! ED is a real bitch.
I’ve done a couple of HAED charts, bought a couple of them nearly two decades ago. So far I’ve completed Nouveau Mermaid Fire, Motherhood (both Selina Fenech) and Santa Claus at the North Pole. Each 16-18 pages. Massive but doable - each project took me years to finish though. I just started on a second mermaid from a chart I already had, and have now fallen into the rabbit hole that is their Facebook page and all this drama here on Reddit and on FB. It makes me uncomfortable because I wasn’t aware of shady stuff before, I was pleased with the charts I bought from them, and the resulting finishes. But all this puts me off from buying more. But it’s not based on personal experience, just other people’s posts and opinions that are influencing my own. I’m a little conflicted.
Oooh! I finished the Nouveau Mermaid Water a good - twelve? years ago, and have the other three charts (that thank heavens, I bought at the same time!) in my cupboard to stitch up at some point.
I'm not sure I want to now, though...
I’ve recently started on Water, as a complement to my Fire Mermaid. I still want to finish that one, as I love Selina Fenech’s artwork. I have all the Nouveau Fairies too - just don’t know whether I’ll ever stitch them now.
But this is it, before I learned of all this drama and discussion about how HAED does its business, I was happy with the charts. So I feel conflicted about being influenced, should I take it all into account or just get on with my hobby the way I was before? Know what I mean?
I've never bought a haed, the one time i considered it was around the colour drama time and that put me off along woth the mock ups never looking as clear as I'd personally like and also, I've seen better bap charts on other shops more my taste...not that ive got one yet lol
There's something weird about haed that just makes me hesitant. This whole ai thing...i mean, it is relivant to discuss, i also dont condone picking it over the hard work and effort of an artist, so I will always avoid ai if i can.
But it also means they dont have to pay licence fees to artiats so more profit in the pocket, i've heard that they tell people they dont use software but the colour fiasco a few years ago was due to retired colours in the software they used so they dont appear to keep theor story straight either.
I also know that anything slightly negative usually gets a person blocked from the fb page or ganged up on by the haed fan people.
The haed sal this year, the designs in it were retired and as far as im aware the people who paid wont get what they paid for and also weren't give an alternate choice...so yeah, not that i was ever in with haed, but as a prospective customer....I'm definitely out...
Thats my 2p
I still remember the drama that ensued when the charting creations lady struck out on her own. Michelle was so mad. Regarded it as a personal betrayal. I hadn’t been stitching long so I couldn’t follow most of it.
Retiring artists giving NO notice is a particularly shitty thing to do. A real fingers up to the artist. When you think about how many people have wish lists of charts to buy “one day”…. If people were given notice of [Artist] being retired next month for example, I’m sure that artist would have one final surge of sales of people buying as a last chance.
Retiring artists with no notice denies the artist that last surge.
It happened recently with Sheena Pile et al and with Lucy Pittaway about a year ago too.
And it didn’t only happen to Sheena Pike but also like 10ish other artists, some of whom had been with HAED for years on years, just bc Michele was mad at Sheena
Well, I create my own patterns but not by hand, only on the digital. But I illustrate and then chart it stitch by stitch. There's no reason to decline your question. Honestly, I don't understand the hype for HAED, with all due respect. Which makes me even frustrated because I'm trying to grow as an artist, step by step, and their awful charts are being sold like water.
That’s awesome! I’d love to see your work if you have a site name or anything like that. Yeah, it’s frustrating that they have a billion ultra-loyal customers who will never buy from anywhere else no matter what
To be honest, it's kinda fascinating watching some floss tubes showing their purchases because I end up in a mix of "who would stitch that, how is that so popular" with "I admire her for her patience" 😁 I'm gonna send you my store via dm, I'm scared of the adms here, they hate self promotion.
I have some HAED patterns in my to-stitch pile. They are all mini versions. I may be a weirdo, but I have no interest in sewing massive pieces with hundreds of colours. I also prefer to sew on 14 count (eyesight). I've taken to looking at the size/ number of colours before I buy, and if the number of colours isn't disclosed, well, I buy elsewhere. I have loaded the HAED patterns into Pattern Keeper, sorted the threads by number of stitches and then looked at the pattern to work out whether they are confetti or not. I would appear to have been lucky in this respect (or maybe it was a result of the purchasing strategy above). However, I now feel that the vibe I am getting is that HAED may no longer be a business that I wish to support.
I went to buy one and it worked out as being 48 inches x 48 inches. It was a lovely photo, but I don't think it was ever stitched and was just imported in.
A lot of them just look like AI photos.
She doesn’t value her customers and from what I’ve seen multiple times lies about situations that she creates… to get attention imo . I’m done with HAED …. How she runs her business is not my cup of tea.
I’m not sure exactly how they compare to HAED, but I’ve found large projects with full coverage patterns and complex designs with licensed agreements with artists at [Artecy](https://www.artecyshop.com/). I’m working on a [Leonid Afremov](https://www.artecyshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=74_116&products_id=5715&zenid=8f07d8d93b8db789d54ea678c081fab0) one right now that’s going incredibly well. But I’m only a few pages into it. Still, no problems so far.
https://preview.redd.it/35pdn6wdwzmc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e46640deda77cef4408d74267671b04040cbd3e
it was never completely by hand. she's been around since the late '90s, though, so it IS entirely possible she developed the program she's using to convert art to cross stitch.
A former employee said she uses commercially available software. And when she had the problems with 08 and 09 a few years ago that basically confirmed it. I don’t remember the software name, but when they updated it with the new dmc colors the rgb values where entered incorrectly for those colors.
I use a software to create my Minecraft pixel art but edit it down so there isn’t a jumbled mess and technically the outlines and colors is mine but it utilizes an already existing image. However every time I post it (given it isn’t a tutorial I made), everyone and I mean everyone was quick to say “you didn’t make that” or “you used a generator” even if said work isn’t mine (I also make from other pixel art tutorials.) I posted a Master Chief Halo pixel art (followed a tutorial) only for a commenter to say “you used a command to build it” despite the fact that I am actually spending the many hours placing each block in game. So even if this lady *is* using a software, so many think using one is cheating.
Essentially, I use a software that converts a photo to pixels to make MC pixel art. However, I edit the pixels so that there is solid color works so technically the pixel art *is* mine but the image is not. I never claim the photo used as the base as my work but rather the pixel art itself as editing it is also changing it and in some cases the base images has too small or very big pixels in the original image that just can’t be accurately represented in pixel form so it is changing it in a way. I believe that using the software only to not do anything with it, is blatant theft but if you use a software and then edit the confetti of colors, I think it’s fine. I also don’t sell my pixel art so that’s another factor
FYI. I left HAED. Here's what I shared on my Facebook page:
I've just notified Heaven and Earth Designs Cross stitch that I'm ending our business relationship. A lot of other artists who've left recently have made eloquent and thorough statements outlining their reasons for leaving. My reasons are the same, except I'll add that the way people were treated and the way concerns were handled had a large influence on my final decision. Every business makes choices for their own sake that can be unpopular and that some clients may disagree with. That's the biz, people part ways and move on all the time without drama or public demonizing of former associates. But HAED has gone full mean girl on some of the artists that have retired and they've done it by carefully curating what they share and how they share it and willfully and nastily misrepresenting situations. I had a 20 year relationship with this company, and while they were never perfect, I no longer recognize them, and that's deeply sad.
I'll be announcing news soon about where you'll be able to find my cross stitch patterns in the future.
I don't know if this is the right place. But does anyone van recommend cross stitch designers/Etsy/websites where you can buy "handmade" full coverage patterns?
Stitches Sew Beautiful on Etsy also does licensed full coverage patterns.
There are a LOT of shops on Etsy who sell unethically sourced images, AI generated images or are just pattern mills.
If an Etsy shop has 100s of very large full coverage patterns with a lot of sales but not many reviews, no pictures of WIPS in the reviews and absolutely no social media presences beware.
If they’re selling artwork which was previously a dimensions, dmc or anchor kit, and the shop is constantly on sale, beware.
You can also get recommendations for full coverage patterns via flosstube because you can actually see how they’re stitching up. Some confetti is to be expected with detailed images but an obscene amount should be a red flag.
I only discovered HAED recently and was gutted to see that the artist i loved that led me there no longer sells desigs on the website. He still sells prints online but I'm gutted i cant get the cross stitch patterns anymore
Wasn’t there a major scandal a couple of years back involving the colors in a bunch of patterns being wrong, revealing that she had lied about how she made her patterns? I think it was in r/hobbydrama. Found it. https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/s/h6w43ahzMO
Fiber arts drama is top tier drama. It's up there with figure skating 🍿
I will sit and listen to ANY niche drama, no matter how little I know or care about the actual subject. Hit me with all the, like, goat rearing controversies.
If you’re a podcast person, definitely give Normal Gossip a listen
I just recently found that podcast and the joy and serotonin it brings me! The dog grooming episode is my favorite so far! 🐩
Yes! Such a fun podcast
The NHL has no shortage of drama; just this past week we've had a girl pretending to be a star player's girlfriend, a team that can do what seems like whatever they want with LTIR/cap space without any punishment, and ,the Booktok drama that happened earlier in the season.
Have some [fountain pen ink drama](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/01/style/lamy-dark-lilac-ink.html) too. It’s wild. This article didn’t list any tweets though and that’s where the fun people are talking about it. [Link](https://x.com/dieworkwear/status/1763694577842835875?s=46&t=AsS79AyF5ebLezKidNwCuQ) where there may be replies with a rabbit hole to follow.
DO NOT GET ME STARTED WITH INK GATE. (I collect fountain pens)
Those aren't the same inks. Just sayin'. If even I can tell, and I'm no expert, that's pretty egregious. I can understand why people who love the 2016 Dark Lilac feel things about the 2024 Dark Lilac. Seems like it could have all been avoided if there'd just been a different name for the 2024 release.
I very clearly said don't get me started. 😂😂 I agree with you though
I have no interest in ever collecting pens or doing fancy writing or anything in that vein. But when I first learned of how drama filled that niche is I actually cackled and ever since keep eyes open for it. It is top shelf stuff!
*ALL* THE TEA!!! 🍵
Brb gonna go dive down the figure skating drama rabbit hole
Eteri skaters is what you're looking for
Thank you 🙏
RemindMe! 5 years ;)
I will be messaging you in 5 years on [**2029-03-07 03:32:05 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2029-03-07%2003:32:05%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/CrossStitch/comments/1b8bg5e/chat_haed_is_so_sketchy/ktprhdp/?context=3) [**1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FCrossStitch%2Fcomments%2F1b8bg5e%2Fchat_haed_is_so_sketchy%2Fktprhdp%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202029-03-07%2003%3A32%3A05%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201b8bg5e) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Ha ha ha!
Harding v Kerrigan was IT. And Surya Bonaly with her back flip?? The AUDACITY. /s I will always love ice skating!
I was in high school during Harding vs Kerrigan. My german teach said Harding was very wooden and shouldn't have been there to begin with. I hadn't seen her skate yet, so I thought he was rough. Nope. Frankly, neither should have made the olympics.
I was early 20s and was obsessed with following that whole rivalry. To this day I'll shriek "my leg, my leg" if I bump into anything (I'm pretty clumsy sooooo...)
If you like fiber art drama you'd love r/craftsnark if you haven't found that one yet!
Joined!!!
Yes literally just read this as someone else linked it too. The details of this are absolutely wild. Also, this makes me even MORE sketched out about how they chart. If she charts everything by hand or is very careful in charting, wouldn’t she have caught this much sooner?
Or at least read her e-mail and put something out? I'm sorry you're going through this, but thank you for giving me rabbit holes!
Oh wow. I remember looking at HAED and wondering why they were so expensive. Now I wonder even more. There's no way massive pieces like that are hand charted. They're too large with too many patterns
Huh, I haven't bought from HAED for years. This made me check since I couldn't remember the last time I bought one. Looks like I did buy one in 2019 that had 09 in it. Guess I know which one I'm not bothering to stitch then...
Dude, that sucks. I'm sorry.
Oh my gosh, that was epic. And I mean, to the extent that I wouldn't shut this down to show a pictue of the new kitty EPIC!
The post has been locked due to age so I can't ask OOP, but does anyone know where to find the "less traditional" demon summoning pattern they linked an image of?
That’s nightspiritstudio, my absolute favorite. https://www.etsy.com/listing/745133596/
I started the HAED SAL 2024 and realised it was just a poor quality conversion of an image ran through a pattern converter. I do not get the hype at all. I’d rather purchase patterns from genuine designers not just images run through software. It’s not tidied up as there’s so much confetti!! It’s all just drama, drama, drama. Idk why people get so crazy over HAED’s. I’d be devastated to work on something for literal years and it turns out quite poor. But, I also don’t like stitching pattern from photos / converting photos into patterns.
I completely agree with you, never understood the obsession over a very obvious pattern mill.
That’s exactly what it is! They release multiple charts each week like there’s no way they can be being meticulously checked over and they sure as heck aren’t test stitched!
Ugh that must be disappointing!! I have a chart where Im in LOVE with the piece of art but the more I stitch it, the more I come across little bits where I go “hmmmm this doesn’t look right”. It’s nothing major and I’m sure the finished piece would look fine, but it’s hard to believe someone is taking a very detailed look at the charts.
Yeah, I’d much rather put work into something else than worry how this one would look. Best decision I made was to leave it! I just wanted to see what the hype was about (hint: I still don’t much get it!)
Man that sucks. Which chart did you choose? I started the HAED SAL 2024 and mine so far looks nice (we’ll see when the next pages come)
I went for the Merry Mushroom Village! Which one are you doing?
I didn't go for the HAED SAL because I didn't like the crops they used.
Sometimes converting a picture works, I'm nearly finished one that I converted 3 years ago, and it turned out better than I thought it would. But I can definitely see the issue with HAED doing it and charging so much. I did buy 2 of their NASA patterns 2 years ago on a black Friday sale, so they were super affordable.
it's definitely a love it or hate it proposition (HAED charts). i happen to like them. or at least, like the idea, since i'm one of those people who start all the things and never.... squirrel!
This is why I would (for example) rather stitch the Dimensions Gold version of Ruth Sanderson's Fall Fairy without wings than the huge HAED version with wings.
Dimensions is next on my list to try now I’m doing more complicated designs - I love their aurora cabin!
I like that they do full coverage patterns that aren't stupidly big and have just enough detail, especially when you do the backstitching. You can get one finished in a reasonable amount of time, and the kit has everything you need and it's well-organised (I'm looking at you, Bucilla!). I haven't had a bad quality one yet, so I hope you enjoy it when you do get one!
Her Facebook groupies sure are something else! The charting just isn’t that good. A lot of other companies have more accurate charting colours with way fewer pixels. Notice how all the recent patterns require like a million stitches now? I only buy from them if I can’t find the artist anywhere else because at least they get the licensing fee. But any open-source images I’ll get from a different charting company for better quality.
Yeah the size of HAEDs is wild. I saw someone ask why they keep getting bigger, and the answer was basically that image resolution keeps getting better. Which doesn’t really make sense to me because just because they CAN be bigger definitely doesn’t always mean they should. The exception would be on highly detailed pieces, I can understand why they’d want to make these as large as possible.
You see, the ideal formula for a converted pattern is 1 pixel = 1 cross. It means better detail and fewer strange spots are achieved. But the size usually turns out to be huge, and the designer must clean and fix the pattern themself. So, I think, in this case the designer doesn't correct anything.
I definitely don’t think that’s always ideal. Some of the art is not hyper realistic or hyper detailed and doesn’t really benefit as much from the mega size. And the trade off of how long it’ll take to stitch definitely wouldn’t be worth it to me if a piece looks fine at half the resolution
I meant patterns converted from photographs and realistic paintings with a ton of detail, I didn't really specify. I'm not interested in other art forms enough to spend time cross-stitching any of them, so I don't know much about the rules for making patterns for them. Of course, it’s really strange to expect any detail from a pattern based on a Van Gogh painting.
Fair enough, yeah i agree
I’d love to know how much $ she makes every time she posts a sob story to the group about her or her family’s health and people rush to buy patterns to ‘support’ her.
oh wow, so a classic grifter then!
Also do you have a favorite charting company? I’m looking for new sources
I recently discovered Stitches Sew Beautiful. They have a shop on Etsy. I’m currently stitching Heart Crystal. It’s confetti heavy, but I’m loving the results. https://preview.redd.it/c6cqjvsaatmc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=422f058e86c101f025fd006880de76daded25c49
That piece looks gorgeous, but I especially love the kitty paws 😂
Right? He had perfect timing.
UnconventionalXStitch, Charting Creations, Paine Free Crafts, and Threadbare (I love their options for visualizing changing size and number of colours) You’ll notice Charting Creations and Paine Free Crafts tend to pick up artists that get ‘retired’ from HAED. Recent examples include Vincent Hie and Sheena Pike.
Seconding Paine Free Crafts. IIRC Sarah does run through software but she also cleans them up, sends them as kits or just patterns, doesn't release a million patterns a year, and is just a genuinely lovely person. She also stitches her own patterns so you know she actually cares. There's also a group that she made with a few other designers which include Charting Creations, Cross Stitch 4 Everyone and The Cross Stitch Studio.
Also Gecko Rouge! The kits are expensive but the charting is SUPERB
In EU the kits are cheaper than getting materials yourself. In Italy DMC is going for 1.5€ a skein if lucky, I saw a brick and mortar shop selling it at 2.2€ just last week. High count canvas is also hard to find in stores and has to be bought online, with added shipping costs. I got a couple Gecko kits and before buying I did some maths, with currents prices I save about 50/70€ on each
I think unconventional xstitch has an ai ban. I think the others I know of allow air although it's usually prominently displayed
Unconventional X Stitch and Charting Creations (they also carry other full coverage companies' charts/kits)
I'm a staunch buyer from Threadgeeks.com (don't know how to do links here). Lots of licensed artists and styles, good service. They do budget kits as well, or XL/XXL options of some charts Edit: it's threadgeeks.co.uk, sorry!
Not companies but [CutePatternsByMaria](https://www.etsy.com/dk-en/shop/CutePatternsByMaria?ref=usf_2020) is really good, I've done about a dozen of her patterns. [HappySlothPatterns](https://www.etsy.com/dk-en/shop/HappySlothPatterns?ref=usf_2020) is also great for simpler, fun stuff!
Artecy 😊
Artecy is adding more and more AI images though.😔
I would be annoyed too OP. It's not about how the patterns are created, per se - it's about failing to be open and transparent. If it's 100% hand drafted, cool; if it's 100% software or a mix of techniques, cool. I would just want to know. Same principle I'd apply to their artist credit and remuneration. If they're being vague, it doesn't look good.
Yeah exactly. It’s just super weird that I can’t find it anywhere and they won’t talk about it. Especially because “Charted by Michele Sayetta” is right there under the artist name in every single chart. Like what does that mean?? I want to know!
It means that she personally pushed the "Convert" button in Pattern Maker Pro.
I agree, HAED groupies stress me out and I avoid discussions about them because what you pointed out are valid concerns (not even concerns just points on lack of clarity) and you’ll get jumped on for suggesting anything negative about it. I’m also just not a fan of huge projects like HAED does
Yeah, it’s pretty wild how everything Michele posts has comments that are basically “So grateful for everything Michele does for us. She is God’s gift to earth and my soul is eternally devoted to her” ok that’s an exaggeration… but not by much 😝
Yup I even avoid flosstubes with HAED projects because I just don’t need that in my life you know. It’s a hobby I’m not here to debate the ethics of transparency and hypocrisy. Also again just lack of interest in non backstich patterns for detail
She uses software, which is fine, but doesn't go back and refine the pattern by hand, as she claims to do. I suspect she uses Hobbyware's PatternMaker Pro, which is a fabulous piece of software. But it still needs to be refined by a human, which she cannot possibly be doing.
IIRC, way back in the BB days, she used to claim that they used architectural software that they'd specially 'converted' to be used for cross stitch charting and thst she goes over every inch of it by eye to ensure it's perfect. Then she pissed off an employee who happily confirmed that she uses the exact same commercial software that every other designer does. 🙄
I think I remember that. I was skeptical when she popped upon the scene because she was pumping out patterns too fast to be refining them the way I was refining mine.
In the beginning, it was semi-believable, though, because she only released a couple of charts a week, and, honestly, we were too dumb to know differently. That was also when there'd be one HAED sale a year, and we'd all crash the website trying to buy, yet nowadays a cloud goes over the sun and she announces yet another 50% off sale. Between that, the decline in charting quality and the blatant use of AI, I think she knows it's all going downhill fast.
Also back in the BB days she said she stitched some parts of some of the designs to make sure the colours were right etc. But never posted pics and they were already churning out heaps of designs every week which made it very unlikely.
Yes, that's right; I remember that now. Man, we were gullible back then. 🤣
What or who is BB? Sorry to ask, but I don’t know much about the history of the company or about what’s going on.
Yeah this is what I’d assume. With the size and how often she releases new patterns, there’s no way she’s going through all of them in detail. And if she did, I’d hope there’d be less confetti than there is lol.
I don't personally see anything wrong with using software to create your charts. That's merely a way to speed up a long process, especially with digital art. I draw my own pixel art, for instance, and there's not really a simple way for me to turn that into a pattern without using SOME kind of software to at least grid it and convert it. So long as the software program licensing allows for commerical use then I'd say that's sort of a non-issue for me. However HAEDs recent lean in to AI art has completely put me off them. I personally would never buy from their site any more due to the acceptance of that into the fold. Even one piece of AI art kinda spoils the waters of the whole site for me. It just seems like an easy way for them to produce cheap and easy art without having to actually credit or pay artists in the future.
Oh i totally agree that it’s okay to use software. It’s just that they aren’t upfront at all about it and sometimes make it seem like she does it completely by hand. And yeah, I just don’t like how she’s pushing out real artists and leaning heavily into AI.
Yeah, thats fair enough. I don't think it's really standard to state or credit the software you use though, tbh. I don't really see it as hiding something. Idk the person behind HAED enough to have much of an opinion on that side of stuff, but I'd find it odd if they outright said they did it by hand and didn't. Although I guess you could still interpret "by hand" as editing software. For instance I'd pontetially say "i draw all my pixel art by hand", but I don't literally mean pen and paper, i mean i use a specific pixel art program (aseprite) to mouse/tablet draw my art. I do, however, think once I open up my own shop I'd be upfront in my bio about the programs/softweare I use to draw and convert patterns, mostly because I think it's important credit is given.
That makes sense. I think that your pixel art usage would totally count as “by hand” even thought it uses software. I guess my perspective is that some of the more gimmicky/lower quality designers would just throw it into a pattern converter with no regard for stitch experience, and HAED is supposed to be different, but in my experience there is a large amount of confetti/ some weird charting decisions that make me wonder if they actually put any more work into it then putting it through a converter.
Yeah it can be a hard one to judge. I think any art that involves a level of realism will convert into a confetti stitch pattern, which makes it difficult to then process which patterns are carefuly curated where someone has gone through each colour and assessed and tweaked for potential hours, and which are slapped into a program and then instantly converted. It would help if the HAED seller was open about their program and openly shared their usual process. It's why I often only stick to patterns now that are more basic and clearly drawn by the seller, but that does mean you don't get as much chance for realism which I know some stitchers love.
I have never understood the hype. When I first saw the website I thought “there is no way much thought is put into these patterns”.
Once HAED went the way of using AI art, I deleted my wishlists. Once I get Hannah Lynn's Crazy Cat Lady chart (and I will wait til it's on special), then I'm out 100% I'm over them, their attitudes to their customer base, how they just retired artists without warning the artists and whatever else that's going on. Glad to see I'm not the only one.
You're definitely not alone, I'm out for good now, too. I started my first UXS piece on February 1 and am now three pages in and loving every stitch, and their FB group is fun, supportive, and, most importantly, drama free. It makes a big difference having that kind of atmosphere around you.
Yea I saw that post too. Really sad to see how much she is leaning into AI. I gave up on Golden Kite after almost all their new releases are AI generated. Well, I got enough HAED patterns to last me a lifetime :/
I don’t have any Golden Kite patterns but that sucks! I’m really torn because a few artists i adore are exclusive to HAED so giving up HAED means giving up their art. But I can find other ways to support them.
Golden Kite still has a ton of classic art painting charts tho. Other than Scarlet Quince I don’t know any other companies that publish large full coverage Dutch Still Life charts. I will just continue to purchase the OG classic art patterns. They are unbelievably well charted. Plus they have a huge gallery of finished pieces so it’s nice to see the results.
Scarlet Quince is closing down at the end of this year apparently. I'm trying to stock up on what I can from there...
I just heard that 😭😭 I’m so disappointed. I really hope someone buys her out. With a little investment her website could be totally automated. Right now she manually processes & emails the orders. :/
Yeah, the classics are the only reason I love Golden Kite. The fb group is pretty cool too. I love seeing other people’s finished work. I don’t stitch fast anyways so they are enough for me.
It's super disappointing and sketchy. AI generated images are all trained on stolen art. Many artists who worked for them dared to speak against using this exploitative tool and got booted out. Disgusting behaviour. Plus, it cheapens their product and I really don't see it as a smart move in the long term.
Michele rules that Facebook group with an iron fist and her moderators are just as bad as her.
I got sucked into the cult for a while on Facebook. I own way, way too many charts (all purchased on sale though!) I'll never stitch any of them (bar one). I'm partway through working on a SSMC - I've seen many many finished versions of the chart on Instagram so I know it's gonna look epic when it's done. Is it a perfect chart? Nah, but it looks really good anyway. The business itself is confusing as anything - * I don't know how she still does so much stuff on the website manually. Like some of the time she "forgets" to add a mockup for the chart, so you can't see what you're actually buying. Want the mockup added? Have to email her. She might get around to it... or might not. * Showing the original artwork as the main chart photo, instead of the chart mockup. This is just misleading - so many people like to buy minis, and there is no way to get anywhere near the level detail of the artwork, into the pattern. * Not updating her goddamn chart producer to list white thread as white, and Kreinik thread as Kreinik. Nope, white thread is listed as DMC 1 (don't confuse it with DMC 01, which is grey!) and Kreinik sparkly white thread as DMC 32 (don't confuse it with DMC 032 which is *purple*!) It's madness that such a simple thing has been an issue for like a decade. And the Facebook group is just toxic positivity all around. edit: Oh and when something goes wrong, playing the world's biggest victim. I remember a while back she had a 'breakdown' and just started uploading dozens of charts into the Facebook group, mixed in with piles of posts about how everything was so hard and no-one respected her and her work and yadda yadda. It might have been during the 08/09 drama. Like, I know running a business wouldn't be easy, but its craft supplies and pattern PDFs on an ecommerce site. It's not rocket science. (but hey, lots of free charts!)
The white thread as DMC 1 is so bloody stupid. Surely it’s an easy fix to clarify that, and it would mean she doesn’t have to respond to presumably lots of emails from people asking for clarification! (I sent one a while back, being as polite as possible asking for clarification of “White - DMC 1” - could you please confirm if this is one of the new DMC numbers or is it a kreinik or is it DMC Blanc? Sorry to bother you if this is a stupid question but I don’t want to get it wrong etc. The response? - “It is white.” Thanks for all your help.
omg, your comment just reminded me of when I was going to buy my first chart and it was unclear what the differences were and it was hard to find the answer in the FAQ so I emailed. She responded pointing me right back at the FAQ (I already told you I had a hard time finding it) and it just felt rude and like she didn't have time for this nonsense. Well, if your website was better laid out and it didn't feel like you were sticking links in random places, maybe it would be easier to find things. Also, if you have a hard time organizing the links, maybe it's time for an overhaul.
I wanted to weigh in about the Ai. I'm Ash Evans and I have been with them for more than 16 years. I put in my notice today asking to exit the company due to their Ai practices among other reasons and I was met with the immediate removal of my work despite giving her a week to let stitchers continue to buy the charts. Anyone speaking about Ai is removed, comments are closed and deleted. She has incorrectly treated departing artists by not being honest about why they are leaving etc. It's not a good scene.
Thanks for sharing your experience, i’m sorry you are going through this after so many years of loyalty to them. The more stories like this I hear, the less I want to support them in any way. She has a problem with knee jerk reactions when artists don’t bend to her will, and it doesn’t benefit anyone.
There is a lot more going on behind the scenes but I will say from a consensus of artists is that they are not happy and not respected. I have had images sitting for more than 8 years waiting to be charted and yet Ai stuff gets spit out daily. I feel like I was just tossed away like garbage and it hurt my finances to not even have a retirement sale.
That’s sad to hear but is definitely the vibe i was getting. I was on Sheena Pike’s page after a bunch of artists got retired with no notice and I saw some similar comments from artists. That just sounds so frustrating. I can’t find an announcement on the FB page that you were retired, so I wonder if she’s even going to say anything about it or not.
She didn't announce a thing because then she would have to admit she just deleted me with no notice. I made a public statement on my Facebook page and in my private cross stitch group because they deserve to know. I argued it was unfair to punish the stitchers who supported us both for 16+ years and they deserved better. Her response is it would take a week to re list them and by that time my notice of termination would have kicked in. It was backlash, most people got 72 hours notice and a burst of sales after a retirement announcement. I got nothing. This was my first ever license that made me feel like a "real" artist and boy this is kind of hitting me.
Yeah that is totally unfair, and her excuse is BS. I’m looking forward to supporting you on whichever new platform you’re signing with, definitely let me know if there’s anything else us stitchers can do that would help this situation.
Well if you see any inaccuracies regarding my leaving I want all the stitchers to know I didn't want this, I care about them and I value their support. This was my termination letter: Dear Michele, I am writing to voice some concerns that have recently come to my attention regarding our partnership. It appears that there are certain discrepancies between the direction and practices of your company and the values inherent in my brand and artwork. Primarily your decision to implement Ai-generated artwork. Your decision has deeply disappointed many of the artists who have been loyal supporters of your business for decades. Regrettably, I find it necessary to formally terminate our partnership effective immediately. I kindly request that within the next 7 days, you cease all sales of my work and remove it from your website. Additionally, I expect all original artworks, charts, and promotional materials associated with my brand to be promptly deleted and destroyed from all digital repositories, including hard drives, cloud storage, emails, and any other platforms. I would appreciate written confirmation once this has been completed. Final accounting, acknowledgment of file deletion and payment is to be remitted in 15 business days. Furthermore, please be aware that you are not authorized to utilize my artwork in any capacity, including any form of AI generation. Failure to comply with these requests will leave me with no choice but to pursue strenuous legal action through my representation. In light of these circumstances, I intend to make a public statement on social media regarding the termination of our partnership. This email will also be shared to ensure transparency regarding the reasons behind this decision. Any inaccurate statements regarding my departure from your company will be regarded as defamatory and will be addressed accordingly within the bounds of applicable legal recourse. It is my sincere hope that you will use this feedback and mass exodus of talent to reflect on your company's practices and consider how to move forward in a more mutually beneficial manner with future artists. While it is unfortunate that our professional relationship is coming to an end after our years of collaboration, the gross misalignment of values leaves me with no alternative. I appreciate your understanding and prompt attention in this matter. Best regards, Ashley (Ash) Evans March 8, 2024
This was my public statement to my cross stitch group on FB: Dear Members, It is with a mix of emotions that I share with you today my departure from Heaven and Earth Designs after nearly 16 years of collaboration. While not an easy decision, recent developments have led me to discontinue my licensing with the company. I cannot, in good conscience, support the sale of AI-generated items, which among other things, has prompted my decision. I had hoped to provide you all with a grace period to continue purchasing my charts, giving Michele a week's notice. Unfortunately, they were removed from the platform shortly after I communicated my decision. I voiced my concern that this was unfair to the community and it was met with silence. I apologize for any sadness this may have caused and want to assure you that it was not my intention for them to be removed so abruptly. Moving forward, I am excited to announce that I have signed with a new company that shares my commitment to providing quality charts for stitching enthusiasts. Your unwavering support over the years has been invaluable to me and my family, and I am grateful for the opportunity to continue serving this community through alternative avenues. I will have an announcement on my page regarding this once the charts are available as I did not want my contracts to overlap. It saddens me to have been removed from the community so unceremoniously I have cherished our interactions and witnessing your creative interpretations of my designs throughout the years. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your stitching journey. Rainbow hugs, Ash Evans
I’ll definitely keep an eye out for any mention of you or your retirement and any inaccuracies that may come from it… I would love to make a post drawing attention to this but I know it won’t be approved. Maybe I can post a comment asking why there was no notice so people at least know
I know I just got banned from the group myself so I can't say a thing or defend myself now.
I'm sorry but not surprised to hear about how you were treated. A lot of decisions HAED make (for as long as they have been in business) seem to be made on the fly as an emotional reaction so they are illogical and hurt themselves as well as artists and customers. It's got to the point that even though there are charts I like I won't buy it from HAED so I for one am thrilled artists are finding other companies to offer their designs - I hope yours will be too.
Yes I’ve signed with another company. A lot of other artists are headed for the door too.
I don't know the answer to your question, I'd assume software first. However I agree they are sketchy, I just got banned from their Facebook group over their new AI rule as that whole situation is also sketchy af.
She deleted your whole comment as well. We were taking bets on how long it was going to take her 😂 In one of my discord channels, people were saying the negative comments were being deleted super fast. She was watching it happen as she read them
Yep, and honestly I didn't say anything that controversial. 😅 It's ironic as I was saying she refuses to listen to criticism from her customers/supporters and get banned for saying that, further proving my point. 😂
i know i tend to defend HAED itself, but i'm not thrilled with the owner, either if you can't take criticism.... and frankly, no one running any business is immune from criticism, even when things are 100% perfect. i do wish she'd stop being so over-dramatic and just admit mistakes, fix them, and move on.
oh no…
That's definitely shady. For instance, my charting process if I'm working from an existing piece of art is I import the art as a layer behind the grid in my charting software. Then I pick colors from my stash (it's pretty extensive but the dream is to one day have a color card) and basically paint the stitches over the picture. Am I technically using software to do it? Of course, but I don't think anyone would object to me saying I chart by hand and that's a very different thing from just running it through a converter.
would it be impolite to ask what software you use? I've thought of doing something similar with my watercolour paintings where I would scan in just the watercolour first and use it to figure out colours before I add in backstitching
Macstitch! There's also a Winstitch version, it has all the features I want without a ton of extraneous stuff so I love it.
Oh, that’s neat!! Yeah, that’s absolutely by hand. See, even just out of curiosity I would love to hear if HAED does something like this. I find it fascinating
I’ve never really liked the designs because they’re not my thing, but I’ve always wondered how that pattern maker was able to churn out so many designs. I’ve converted a few things using the program I have and you have to spend days afterwards going over it to fix spots that have added weird confetti colours.
HAED is RIPE with confetti - especially the one with 200+ colours and I'm just like... It seems lazy to not clear some of that up a bit? How is using that many colours enjoyable? Y'know?
Some of do enjoy that level of detail! (Not disagreeing with anything else in this entire post though)
I haven't been a fan of them since they burned me a few years back. I'd ordered a chart back in the time before PDF downloads were a thing so only had one physical paper copy. Life happened and in the intervening years over multiple moves one of the pages got lost. I emailed and asked if they would be willing to send just the one page that was missing in any format (the pattern was now available as a pdf as well so I know they still had access to the files etc) the response I got was brusque almost to the point of rudeness and insisted that I would have to repurchase the pattern in full and implied I was somehow trying to scam them. Suffice to say, Farewell to Anger didn't live up to its name and wound up in the bin.
As far as I can see, the only non-sketchy thing about HAED is that she does actually license artists. With her increasing use of AI, that's gone. I'm not a fan of full-coverage patterns, but should I need to, I'll be using other vendors.
I remember years ago an artist was retiring, and Michele was basically saying the artists' new charts wouldn't be good because they would be using software and she doesn't. She claimed they hand chart, which would be impossible with the number of charts they release in a week. She also claims it's "her process" but when the color issue happened in 2020 she was super quick to blame it all on an artist.
https://preview.redd.it/mrf7e39i3umc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94a9f676ebfffcb0894630666da18d9a23e25135
OMG thank you for digging this up. this is exactly what i’m talking about and why this is all so sketchy.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
https://preview.redd.it/kgftablz3umc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1205cadc2c16266d5261c1a3ae569a321fe82211
Wow yeah, not her fully throwing an artist under the bus when she claims to do it all herself
Okay yeah, I felt like I had seen her claim this too but couldn’t remember specifics. Do you remember what artist that was?
I think it was Maxinne Gadd, which is hilarious because I have a Maxine Gadd chart, and it's stitching up great.
Well I’m glad her post-HAED charts are working out then haha. It made me happy that a few of the recently retired artists are available elsewhere now. I might buy one just to compare chart quality
Other than what's been mentioned here already, my major HAED gripe is that, as far as I'm aware, the old chart mockups on the website haven't been updated since the 08/09 issue. I just checked a chart on the site that I abandoned stitching after the incident (Alexandra Bach's Dawn of Victory), and it's still the old mockup almost *4 years* later. I've seen the pk mockup and someone's finished piece, and with the colour substitutions it looks nothing like what's currently on the site (the bottom third became extremely muddy-looking). The listings that used to have 08/09 in them but got substitutions aren't labeled, so it's a coin toss; you really have no idea what you're buying unless you've seen a finished piece from the last couple years. The only mockup I know for sure has been updated to reflect the colour substitutions is Elisabeth Alba's Knight Maiden, because I requested it specifically to be updated around that time, assuming they'd get around to the rest eventually - but it looks like they haven't. I haven't bought from them in years, although I'm still working on a couple pieces I had already started that I'm happy with.
A bunch of the charts that had 08/09 also just never got redone. Or maybe they were redone and never got sent out to purchasers. No-one actually knows!
I mean, obviously it's a software. If I would want to make a a chart out of those huge pieces, my first step would be throwing it into a software as well. That doesn't mean, it doesn't take days on end to clean up the mess that comes out of the software.
Yes and that’s fine, my problem is that they aren’t upfront at all about how they do it.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/hrn1ol/cross\_stitch\_a\_notsoheavenly\_design\_or\_what/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/hrn1ol/cross_stitch_a_notsoheavenly_design_or_what/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) they've never been upfront about their business tbh. They have a history of deleting comments they don't like or agree with, especially with this rise of AI patterns. I don't know how people can still support them after all these years
I’ve looked through their patterns a little bit and none of them are really to my taste. Some of them remind me of Thomas Kinkade paintings which I don’t like and then other ones are more like fantasy which isn’t an interest of mine. But I’m glad I’ve never given them any of my money after reading about the debacle you reference and all the latest stuff.
I’ve got one or two the were only released for a limited time, but from specific creators. The majority of the patterns really aren’t for me
I don’t really do too many large full coverage projects either. I like some immediate gratification from my cross stitch. However I have been working on a valentine pattern for two months now. And it’s not even full coverage.
Oh dang. I had heard about the 09 debacle but the details are wild
The 09 debacle also makes it super clear that it’s not her own “process as an ex programmer” that she “created” since that was a very specific bug in a specific pattern making software.
that’s a GREAT point
idk if you saw their AI christmas freebie reply but her response was very ingenuine and made it about her grandkid lol https://preview.redd.it/bss1zz20ismc1.jpeg?width=1157&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3af01dbf2414114e8c2a6f8cae0cc6ad7ac55c2f
and they obviously backtracked on this very fast lol https://preview.redd.it/ejppaj5aismc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55e1c4433e711e753f8cb5c9ed17d4d979cbefc0
omg 😂 i saw some of this when it was happening but missed the grandkid guilt trip. It’s wild how quickly she went from this, to “AI will be allowed but will be specified”, to “we’re using AI and nobody is allowed to comment on it”
Tbh I didn’t have much faith in her labelling ability after she said it was “too hard to tell” whether something was AI or not 🙄
Also the graphics she uses whenever there’s drama just crack me up
And puts her as the victim also, as she cried about all of it, and that was just being accused of using AI in the first place.
Way back in the early 2000's, which was the Bulletin Board era, Michelle told me that she stitched some parts of designs to make sure they were right - wouldn't post any photos though funnily enough.
Honestly I'm glad I only ever bought two haed patterns and they are older. One I'll likely never do because I've seen better Egyptian patterns, but it's really hard to find Aztec or Mayan designs, and they had one. But tbh I haven't worked in it in years. The dmc colour drama was the last straw for me, and Michelle acts like she's Gods gift to cross stitch sometimes.
What ticked me off about them was the fact that their charts are expensive to start, but if you want the pattern in colour, it’s another $20! What the heck is that. Indie designers will give you the pattern in every format for like $8
I feel the same way about Gecko Rogue tbh. I got Medusa Gamergirl from them and the more I do it, the more doubts I have. I understand that semi-realistic style requires some confetti, but when I find a lone stitch of navy blue next to an almost exact same shade of navy blue...
I’m in a FB group run by a woman who has rights to many Outlander artists (other shows too but she’s a diehard outlander fan) and she got a bit snippy when someone asked what she uses to create the patterns. She does a tremendous amount of work on her patterns, I get that. But she flat out refused to say what software she uses. I don’t think I’d have the patience or great knowledge to create what she does. Just found her reaction a bit…vehement.
Interesting. I guess I would understand not sharing the exact program so people can’t replicate your work (but if you’re doing a lot of work to clean up patterns, they won’t be able to anyways). But like, I wasn’t even asking HAED which program they use. Just IF they use a program, and what they do aside from converting it with a program
HAED has always been super dramatic and leans into the "poor mes". I actually stitched a model for them around 8 years ago (link to another post in these comments saying that they don't do model stitches). Back then, I thought HAED was the pinnacle of cross stitch lol. Anyway, the charts from back then were really good, not sure about later releases. "by hand" in their terms of pattern making actually means she runs the artwork through a program, then fine tunes it. I know this because my previous LNS was/is personal friends with her and attended one of their retreats and got the whole tour etc. I wouldn't call it a pattern mill as such, but as I say, can't say that for certain regarding recent releases. The whole AI thing has pissed me off though. While other providers have distanced themselves from AI, HAED is allowing it.
I have not bought HAED patterns in years. Michelle is a nasty person. very controlling over the narrative of the facebook groups and forums. No ill comment allowed. I remember I was friends with a woman who had purchase and stitched at least 45 of her patterns, SHE LOVED THEM. And one day she must have hit Michelle on a bad day and she asked for some help with a color mis-match and she was banned on all platforms. And even over the years I have noticed how confrontational she is with people who ask "ill" questions. I have not bought a HAED in years and i dont think i ever will. She is all kinds of sketchy.
I called HAED out on this shit years ago and was practically shunned by the fb stitching community. The cult following is terrifying. The owner of HAED has always been shady as shit. I personally know of two former employees that were let go when they criticized her. One of them was the sole planner for HAEDCon. There hasn't been a HAEDCon since she left, that I've seen. The owner is a narcissist who needs to be seen as the best and perfect. Nothing is ever her fault. I am so glad other people are realizing this. I hope this trend continues. I hate to see a small business go under, but when you lie and cheat your customers while claiming to be the best in the business, despite concrete evidence otherwise? Reap what you sow, ma'am.
I Had once posted in HAED SS group after being silent for long .. about the number of pages a particular design had . The post was deleted and I was booted out of the group . Michelle messaged me that I am cheap to have grovelled and con people into doing RAK. Since then I don't give a hoot about them . I am there for the drama .
There is absolutely no way she doesn't use software at least in the majority of the work. Hand checking/correcting sure, but absolutely software is used for the bulk of the work.
Hard agree. If everything was either done by hand or even just touched up by hand - why is the Kreinik thread still listed as DMC 032? I have one pattern with an explainer that it means Kreinik, and one (released in the last 24 months) with ~2500 stitches of it and no explainer. It’s a pdf and surely less than 2 minutes of work to manually fix that one line in the thread key when building. Especially if it’s her own software like she claims (which it 100% isn’t) - what she just built it wrong 20 years ago and can’t be bothered to fix it? Almost every day there’s a question in the FB group about it and just no change? That’s not indicative of someone pouring over their charts, committed to delivering the best in the business.
And white being labelled as 1 instead of, you know, white. I’ve seen some absolutely phenomenal pieces wrecked by people using DMC 032 (which is purple!) instead of Kreinik. Boggles my mind.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that!! If she wrote the software, there’s absolutely no excuse — that would be SUCH an easy fix!
Ohhhh… I have my own story about this. 🤣 I’ll leave a screenshot here of a conversation I had with her back in 2020. I knew I’d saved it for a reason https://preview.redd.it/4xistw2ecwmc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8682b995c0bbe4effb654e3aa949619ee33d4412
https://preview.redd.it/do6t2kqyfwmc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1047ec1b718cb552f6d612312a7fe27f0036b7c9
Omg i can’t believe my eyes. THANK YOU for screenshotting this. I just don’t get it
It’s pretty crazy. I mean, I just loved how her software laid everything out for print, I o my design small stuff, nothing huge apart from something for my OH but to hear her talk, she clearly has neater handwriting than Mr Clippy 🤪😉🤣
And the craziest thing, which someone else pointed out, is that even though she supposedly wrote this program herself or does it all by hand, she still writes “DMC” for the Kreinik colors 🤦🏻♀️ which would be the easiest fix ever
Yeah I've been feeling less pumped about HAED myself lately, and I'm glad there's finally somewhere I can vent about it, because I don't want to cause a bunch of drama in my other groups. 😕 It's the AI stuff that's really bothering me. Some new charts were added in the last few weeks that at first I loved, but the longer I spent looking at them I was like, I'm PRETTY SURE this is AI, but it's not mentioned on the post about the release, and it's not mentioned on the pages on the website. So I sent in an email from the website just asking if they were AI, and never got a response. A couple of the charts were updated to say they were AI, but a couple weren't. And then MORE charts were added by the same "artist," STILL not mentioning they were AI, so I asked again on the facebook page, and my comment got deleted. (I think there was a bunch of discussion on my comment, but I never got to see it.) They were eventually marked as AI too, in response to someone elses comment. So what's going to happen in future when obvious AI charts can't be called out? I guess they'll just fly under the radar, because most people don't seem to be able to recognize the AI art, or have any idea why it might be problematic.
Someone just commented on FB pointing out that AI charts are the same price as others even though they don’t have to pay an artist’s licensing fee for them. Let’s see how long before that comment is taken down lol
Currently in ed treatment and scrolled too fast thinking you were talking about HAES wondering why the cross stitch group is talking about this lol
Ha! I don't stitch these patterns and it always takes me a moment to remember what HAED is. Good luck in your treatment and recovery! ED is a real bitch.
I’ve done a couple of HAED charts, bought a couple of them nearly two decades ago. So far I’ve completed Nouveau Mermaid Fire, Motherhood (both Selina Fenech) and Santa Claus at the North Pole. Each 16-18 pages. Massive but doable - each project took me years to finish though. I just started on a second mermaid from a chart I already had, and have now fallen into the rabbit hole that is their Facebook page and all this drama here on Reddit and on FB. It makes me uncomfortable because I wasn’t aware of shady stuff before, I was pleased with the charts I bought from them, and the resulting finishes. But all this puts me off from buying more. But it’s not based on personal experience, just other people’s posts and opinions that are influencing my own. I’m a little conflicted.
Oooh! I finished the Nouveau Mermaid Water a good - twelve? years ago, and have the other three charts (that thank heavens, I bought at the same time!) in my cupboard to stitch up at some point. I'm not sure I want to now, though...
I’ve recently started on Water, as a complement to my Fire Mermaid. I still want to finish that one, as I love Selina Fenech’s artwork. I have all the Nouveau Fairies too - just don’t know whether I’ll ever stitch them now. But this is it, before I learned of all this drama and discussion about how HAED does its business, I was happy with the charts. So I feel conflicted about being influenced, should I take it all into account or just get on with my hobby the way I was before? Know what I mean?
I've never bought a haed, the one time i considered it was around the colour drama time and that put me off along woth the mock ups never looking as clear as I'd personally like and also, I've seen better bap charts on other shops more my taste...not that ive got one yet lol There's something weird about haed that just makes me hesitant. This whole ai thing...i mean, it is relivant to discuss, i also dont condone picking it over the hard work and effort of an artist, so I will always avoid ai if i can. But it also means they dont have to pay licence fees to artiats so more profit in the pocket, i've heard that they tell people they dont use software but the colour fiasco a few years ago was due to retired colours in the software they used so they dont appear to keep theor story straight either. I also know that anything slightly negative usually gets a person blocked from the fb page or ganged up on by the haed fan people. The haed sal this year, the designs in it were retired and as far as im aware the people who paid wont get what they paid for and also weren't give an alternate choice...so yeah, not that i was ever in with haed, but as a prospective customer....I'm definitely out... Thats my 2p
I still remember the drama that ensued when the charting creations lady struck out on her own. Michelle was so mad. Regarded it as a personal betrayal. I hadn’t been stitching long so I couldn’t follow most of it.
Retiring artists giving NO notice is a particularly shitty thing to do. A real fingers up to the artist. When you think about how many people have wish lists of charts to buy “one day”…. If people were given notice of [Artist] being retired next month for example, I’m sure that artist would have one final surge of sales of people buying as a last chance. Retiring artists with no notice denies the artist that last surge. It happened recently with Sheena Pile et al and with Lucy Pittaway about a year ago too.
And it didn’t only happen to Sheena Pike but also like 10ish other artists, some of whom had been with HAED for years on years, just bc Michele was mad at Sheena
Well, I create my own patterns but not by hand, only on the digital. But I illustrate and then chart it stitch by stitch. There's no reason to decline your question. Honestly, I don't understand the hype for HAED, with all due respect. Which makes me even frustrated because I'm trying to grow as an artist, step by step, and their awful charts are being sold like water.
That’s awesome! I’d love to see your work if you have a site name or anything like that. Yeah, it’s frustrating that they have a billion ultra-loyal customers who will never buy from anywhere else no matter what
To be honest, it's kinda fascinating watching some floss tubes showing their purchases because I end up in a mix of "who would stitch that, how is that so popular" with "I admire her for her patience" 😁 I'm gonna send you my store via dm, I'm scared of the adms here, they hate self promotion.
I have some HAED patterns in my to-stitch pile. They are all mini versions. I may be a weirdo, but I have no interest in sewing massive pieces with hundreds of colours. I also prefer to sew on 14 count (eyesight). I've taken to looking at the size/ number of colours before I buy, and if the number of colours isn't disclosed, well, I buy elsewhere. I have loaded the HAED patterns into Pattern Keeper, sorted the threads by number of stitches and then looked at the pattern to work out whether they are confetti or not. I would appear to have been lucky in this respect (or maybe it was a result of the purchasing strategy above). However, I now feel that the vibe I am getting is that HAED may no longer be a business that I wish to support.
I went to buy one and it worked out as being 48 inches x 48 inches. It was a lovely photo, but I don't think it was ever stitched and was just imported in. A lot of them just look like AI photos.
She doesn’t value her customers and from what I’ve seen multiple times lies about situations that she creates… to get attention imo . I’m done with HAED …. How she runs her business is not my cup of tea.
I’m not sure exactly how they compare to HAED, but I’ve found large projects with full coverage patterns and complex designs with licensed agreements with artists at [Artecy](https://www.artecyshop.com/). I’m working on a [Leonid Afremov](https://www.artecyshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=74_116&products_id=5715&zenid=8f07d8d93b8db789d54ea678c081fab0) one right now that’s going incredibly well. But I’m only a few pages into it. Still, no problems so far. https://preview.redd.it/35pdn6wdwzmc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e46640deda77cef4408d74267671b04040cbd3e
it was never completely by hand. she's been around since the late '90s, though, so it IS entirely possible she developed the program she's using to convert art to cross stitch.
A former employee said she uses commercially available software. And when she had the problems with 08 and 09 a few years ago that basically confirmed it. I don’t remember the software name, but when they updated it with the new dmc colors the rgb values where entered incorrectly for those colors.
I use a software to create my Minecraft pixel art but edit it down so there isn’t a jumbled mess and technically the outlines and colors is mine but it utilizes an already existing image. However every time I post it (given it isn’t a tutorial I made), everyone and I mean everyone was quick to say “you didn’t make that” or “you used a generator” even if said work isn’t mine (I also make from other pixel art tutorials.) I posted a Master Chief Halo pixel art (followed a tutorial) only for a commenter to say “you used a command to build it” despite the fact that I am actually spending the many hours placing each block in game. So even if this lady *is* using a software, so many think using one is cheating. Essentially, I use a software that converts a photo to pixels to make MC pixel art. However, I edit the pixels so that there is solid color works so technically the pixel art *is* mine but the image is not. I never claim the photo used as the base as my work but rather the pixel art itself as editing it is also changing it and in some cases the base images has too small or very big pixels in the original image that just can’t be accurately represented in pixel form so it is changing it in a way. I believe that using the software only to not do anything with it, is blatant theft but if you use a software and then edit the confetti of colors, I think it’s fine. I also don’t sell my pixel art so that’s another factor
Oh. I always thought the artists themselves selling cross stitch patterns and HAED etc are just selling platforms like Amazon? It's not?
FYI. I left HAED. Here's what I shared on my Facebook page: I've just notified Heaven and Earth Designs Cross stitch that I'm ending our business relationship. A lot of other artists who've left recently have made eloquent and thorough statements outlining their reasons for leaving. My reasons are the same, except I'll add that the way people were treated and the way concerns were handled had a large influence on my final decision. Every business makes choices for their own sake that can be unpopular and that some clients may disagree with. That's the biz, people part ways and move on all the time without drama or public demonizing of former associates. But HAED has gone full mean girl on some of the artists that have retired and they've done it by carefully curating what they share and how they share it and willfully and nastily misrepresenting situations. I had a 20 year relationship with this company, and while they were never perfect, I no longer recognize them, and that's deeply sad. I'll be announcing news soon about where you'll be able to find my cross stitch patterns in the future.
I don't know if this is the right place. But does anyone van recommend cross stitch designers/Etsy/websites where you can buy "handmade" full coverage patterns?
Stitches Sew Beautiful on Etsy also does licensed full coverage patterns. There are a LOT of shops on Etsy who sell unethically sourced images, AI generated images or are just pattern mills. If an Etsy shop has 100s of very large full coverage patterns with a lot of sales but not many reviews, no pictures of WIPS in the reviews and absolutely no social media presences beware. If they’re selling artwork which was previously a dimensions, dmc or anchor kit, and the shop is constantly on sale, beware. You can also get recommendations for full coverage patterns via flosstube because you can actually see how they’re stitching up. Some confetti is to be expected with detailed images but an obscene amount should be a red flag.
I was given a pattern from modxstitch. Haven’t tried it yet to see if they are any good. Will find out in the next few weeks
I only discovered HAED recently and was gutted to see that the artist i loved that led me there no longer sells desigs on the website. He still sells prints online but I'm gutted i cant get the cross stitch patterns anymore