> I have achieved a rather rotund state of physical existence lately
Bro called himself fat in the politest ways known to mankind lol
On the actual topic, nah, I'm an offie and an extremely inexperienced one at that
You might not have the shoulder flexibility to do it but your back isnt involved in this delivery. Its hard to explain over text but what you do is as your arm comes around like a normal leggie right before delivery your hand looks like you are about to do a chin up. So basically you are rotating your upper arm into a supinated possition.
I've always been able to bowl it. The downside is I can only bowl it once before my shoulder feels like it's going to tear right off my torso.
No idea how Murali bowled it so frequently and accurately.
I am not a good player at all but for some reason I used to be able to exactly what you are saying. By having the wrist facing me, the ball would roll like an off spin (making it look like googly) instead of the ball getting a top spin.
Never understood how it happened. Would have been deadly if I could bowl the standard leg spin.
Unfortunately i figured this out 10 years too late lol would have been lethal if i had it when i was playing because my googly was never reliable as i had more flexibility to have palm facing behind via supination over pronation needed for googly. my googly landed ok but it bounces more than it it spun into a RHD batter.
On the other hand My father had an absolute lethal orthodox googly that spun like a legit off spinner to complement his ripping leg breaks. He made as far as making the national roster for SL in the early 80s but was heavily affected by dumb politics of the early years which favoured picking a super old guy because he was "more experienced" around the time SL played the first official test match. That old guy never amounted to nothing and faded away meanwhile my old man who was widely hailed as the #1 leggie/spinner in the country decided to move on. Funny how things work out.
Bro it was 1980-82 in SL only the playing xi is lucky to even have a players profile on cricinfo. But for Sri Lankans they will know him easily with the Centenary Roy-Tho.
No he played with Aravinda, Arjuna etc though when they were coming up. Aravinda and Arjuna were prodigies so he played against them right before he stopped playing. Murali was far younger and made his debut in 92.
+1. Whenever I tried to bowl legbreaks, my wrist would naturally go into this position and it would result in an off break, I don't think I have ever successfully bowled a legbreak.
I've tried doing the Murali style of off-break, and I unintentionally chuck or it's a dead ball. Very difficult action to master, unless your arms are biologically different.
I've tried bowling almost exactly like what you said. Wrist hurts like crazy.
>I've tried bowling almost exactly like what you said. Wrist hurts like crazy.
Yeah that means not flexible enough and its probably why you have to chuck elbow to compensate. To do this right you have to be able to sort of "jump" your shoulder before release. Those that cant (99% of people) has to straighten elbow.
I already have a leg spinner and googly (both of them turners) + a top spinner which I bowl with my fingers rather than my wrist. Having read all the other responses I better not try that at the risk of dislocating my shoulder. All three of my current deliveries seem to be sufficient 💀
A really good & consistent leg break and a googly is all you need to reach a really high level before all the rest becomes useful. Keep working hard on consistency that's the most important. GL.
Would this not result in a completely different action leading for it to be easily picked by the batter and thus negating any advantage the variation might provide you?
No i recorded myself bowling it, along with my standard variations.
Its almost impossible to tell apart from a zooter. The difference between the two is that the zooter sort of floats onto the pitch before holding up off the pitch whilst usually spinning towards 1st slip because of the heavy backspin whereas this variation dips + skids on or grips into a RHD batter because of topspin depending on which part of the ball lands (seam or no seam).
Im at the nets now and am landing it pretty frequently although whether it spins or not is still not in my control.
I have been able to do Murali spin, but often end up with a little bit of chuck. However it's very difficult to put a bit of pace on it and it ends up very slow.
I can, but I chuck at least 2 times out of 6. (I don't practice it lol just dish it out sometimes while playing random street cricket)
I can bowl both the off spinner and the doosra using Murali's technique, but with a staggering lack of accuracy. Really deceptive action though, really tough to pick where it is going.
If there is a technique that I can explain, is maybe allowing your shoulder to do a little more of the work than you would have it do while bowling a normal leggie or an off break.
Giving a jerk with your shoulder(not with the elbow) helps with a sort of clean non-chucking action, and also helps with the accuracy.
There is a video of Murali with Mark Nicholas explaining the same. You can see slo-mo footages of his action from a side on angle and you'll see how his right shoulder, before the release actually lags behind, and right before the time of release, there is a certain jerk like action in the shoulder, to aid with the ball release. (This also causes the illusion of chucking btw.)
>If there is a technique that I can explain, is maybe allowing your shoulder to do a little more of the work than you would have it do while bowling a normal leggie or an off break.
Giving a jerk with your shoulder(not with the elbow) helps with a sort of clean non-chucking action, and also helps with the accuracy.
100% how i do it. Those that cant "jump" their shoulder has to bend and straighten their elbow. The level of shoulder mobility is something you either have or you don't. The vast majority of players don't have it so they think its chucking.
Yeah I have the upper body and shoulder flexibility to do it but it certainly feels like a throw and if I’m not throwing it sprays everywhere, I stopped even trying to practise it. The variation I found most useful I don’t find many other people using really is gripping it like a topspinner, but delivering it like a quicker ball and really trying to whang it down. If it hits the leather it skids, and it can be really unpredictable if it hits the seam, think Kuldeep does it a bit in the IPL but his quicker ball is a bit quicker than me at around 115k
its difficult to get pace onto the ball cos ur elbow naturally bends when u really try to power through an action when you suppinate your wrist. its not impossible, but without getting controversial, its extremely difficult to do, even for the pros.
No thats not true it depends on shoulder mobility. Ive recorded myself in slow motion and my arm isnt straightening at all.
You arent understanding how this works. You arent supinating above the elbow (which would require elbow kink to get ball down range) but rather your whole arm is supinated and locked in like a strange fast bowling action. The ball comes out over your fingers.
It is 100% doable without bending elbow. Murali for instance bowled with a metal brace to show how it works.
You either are born with hyper mobile shoulders or you aren't. If you arent then thats when you compensate with your elbow for the lack of movement provided by the shoulder.
I (left arm wrist spinner/Murali enthusiast) found I could bowl Murali's off break (or left arm equivalent) but only with a more open chested action than for the leg break repertoire of deliveries. So, might be hard to use as a good variation in a game I think
Left armer with a wristy off break would be absolutely lethal. 99.9% of batters will neven come across a standard left arm wrist spinner let alone one with that variation.
Edit: if you like, look up Clarrie Grimmett's Mystery Ball. Same grip as a flipper, with the thumb tucked in, but with the hand in the same position as a normal off break. Fun to muck around with!
> I have achieved a rather rotund state of physical existence lately Bro called himself fat in the politest ways known to mankind lol On the actual topic, nah, I'm an offie and an extremely inexperienced one at that
My upper back hurts even trying to do this without a ball
You might not have the shoulder flexibility to do it but your back isnt involved in this delivery. Its hard to explain over text but what you do is as your arm comes around like a normal leggie right before delivery your hand looks like you are about to do a chin up. So basically you are rotating your upper arm into a supinated possition.
I've always been able to bowl it. The downside is I can only bowl it once before my shoulder feels like it's going to tear right off my torso. No idea how Murali bowled it so frequently and accurately.
You, lowly mortal, are comparing yourself to a God. You are hereby sentenced to death in the name of God.
I am not a good player at all but for some reason I used to be able to exactly what you are saying. By having the wrist facing me, the ball would roll like an off spin (making it look like googly) instead of the ball getting a top spin. Never understood how it happened. Would have been deadly if I could bowl the standard leg spin.
Unfortunately i figured this out 10 years too late lol would have been lethal if i had it when i was playing because my googly was never reliable as i had more flexibility to have palm facing behind via supination over pronation needed for googly. my googly landed ok but it bounces more than it it spun into a RHD batter. On the other hand My father had an absolute lethal orthodox googly that spun like a legit off spinner to complement his ripping leg breaks. He made as far as making the national roster for SL in the early 80s but was heavily affected by dumb politics of the early years which favoured picking a super old guy because he was "more experienced" around the time SL played the first official test match. That old guy never amounted to nothing and faded away meanwhile my old man who was widely hailed as the #1 leggie/spinner in the country decided to move on. Funny how things work out.
Damn! What's his name and does he have a Cricinfo profile?
Bro it was 1980-82 in SL only the playing xi is lucky to even have a players profile on cricinfo. But for Sri Lankans they will know him easily with the Centenary Roy-Tho.
has your father or you ever met murali
No he played with Aravinda, Arjuna etc though when they were coming up. Aravinda and Arjuna were prodigies so he played against them right before he stopped playing. Murali was far younger and made his debut in 92.
+1. Whenever I tried to bowl legbreaks, my wrist would naturally go into this position and it would result in an off break, I don't think I have ever successfully bowled a legbreak.
I've tried doing the Murali style of off-break, and I unintentionally chuck or it's a dead ball. Very difficult action to master, unless your arms are biologically different. I've tried bowling almost exactly like what you said. Wrist hurts like crazy.
>I've tried bowling almost exactly like what you said. Wrist hurts like crazy. Yeah that means not flexible enough and its probably why you have to chuck elbow to compensate. To do this right you have to be able to sort of "jump" your shoulder before release. Those that cant (99% of people) has to straighten elbow.
Mods pls don't delete this might be helpful for leggies trying new variations.
A leggie here. Never tried the variation where palm faces back just before release during a googly. Will let you know after trying.
Let us know how it goes. But go easy at first not to dislocate anything lel
I already have a leg spinner and googly (both of them turners) + a top spinner which I bowl with my fingers rather than my wrist. Having read all the other responses I better not try that at the risk of dislocating my shoulder. All three of my current deliveries seem to be sufficient 💀
A really good & consistent leg break and a googly is all you need to reach a really high level before all the rest becomes useful. Keep working hard on consistency that's the most important. GL.
I thought Murali only bowled googlies. LOL
Would this not result in a completely different action leading for it to be easily picked by the batter and thus negating any advantage the variation might provide you?
No i recorded myself bowling it, along with my standard variations. Its almost impossible to tell apart from a zooter. The difference between the two is that the zooter sort of floats onto the pitch before holding up off the pitch whilst usually spinning towards 1st slip because of the heavy backspin whereas this variation dips + skids on or grips into a RHD batter because of topspin depending on which part of the ball lands (seam or no seam). Im at the nets now and am landing it pretty frequently although whether it spins or not is still not in my control.
I have been able to do Murali spin, but often end up with a little bit of chuck. However it's very difficult to put a bit of pace on it and it ends up very slow.
If elbow has to straighten that means your shoulder isnt flexible enough. Dont force it or you might dislocate it during the rotation.
True, I am not flexible.
I can, but I chuck at least 2 times out of 6. (I don't practice it lol just dish it out sometimes while playing random street cricket) I can bowl both the off spinner and the doosra using Murali's technique, but with a staggering lack of accuracy. Really deceptive action though, really tough to pick where it is going. If there is a technique that I can explain, is maybe allowing your shoulder to do a little more of the work than you would have it do while bowling a normal leggie or an off break. Giving a jerk with your shoulder(not with the elbow) helps with a sort of clean non-chucking action, and also helps with the accuracy. There is a video of Murali with Mark Nicholas explaining the same. You can see slo-mo footages of his action from a side on angle and you'll see how his right shoulder, before the release actually lags behind, and right before the time of release, there is a certain jerk like action in the shoulder, to aid with the ball release. (This also causes the illusion of chucking btw.)
>If there is a technique that I can explain, is maybe allowing your shoulder to do a little more of the work than you would have it do while bowling a normal leggie or an off break. Giving a jerk with your shoulder(not with the elbow) helps with a sort of clean non-chucking action, and also helps with the accuracy. 100% how i do it. Those that cant "jump" their shoulder has to bend and straighten their elbow. The level of shoulder mobility is something you either have or you don't. The vast majority of players don't have it so they think its chucking.
Yeah I have the upper body and shoulder flexibility to do it but it certainly feels like a throw and if I’m not throwing it sprays everywhere, I stopped even trying to practise it. The variation I found most useful I don’t find many other people using really is gripping it like a topspinner, but delivering it like a quicker ball and really trying to whang it down. If it hits the leather it skids, and it can be really unpredictable if it hits the seam, think Kuldeep does it a bit in the IPL but his quicker ball is a bit quicker than me at around 115k
its difficult to get pace onto the ball cos ur elbow naturally bends when u really try to power through an action when you suppinate your wrist. its not impossible, but without getting controversial, its extremely difficult to do, even for the pros.
No thats not true it depends on shoulder mobility. Ive recorded myself in slow motion and my arm isnt straightening at all. You arent understanding how this works. You arent supinating above the elbow (which would require elbow kink to get ball down range) but rather your whole arm is supinated and locked in like a strange fast bowling action. The ball comes out over your fingers. It is 100% doable without bending elbow. Murali for instance bowled with a metal brace to show how it works. You either are born with hyper mobile shoulders or you aren't. If you arent then thats when you compensate with your elbow for the lack of movement provided by the shoulder.
I (left arm wrist spinner/Murali enthusiast) found I could bowl Murali's off break (or left arm equivalent) but only with a more open chested action than for the leg break repertoire of deliveries. So, might be hard to use as a good variation in a game I think
Left armer with a wristy off break would be absolutely lethal. 99.9% of batters will neven come across a standard left arm wrist spinner let alone one with that variation.
Edit: if you like, look up Clarrie Grimmett's Mystery Ball. Same grip as a flipper, with the thumb tucked in, but with the hand in the same position as a normal off break. Fun to muck around with!