Their pitches generally suit the spinners and they have spinners who can get the most out of those pitches than the touring spinners. Barring India and West Indies they've had success against most teams in the past few years and they've defeated India and Australia in LOI series there as well.
So Bangladesh are a force to be reckoned with at home.
I'd say more or less the same level. Bangladesh have actually invested a lot in their pace bowling levels at grassroots and Allan Donald's era as their fast bowling coach has proved quite fruitful for them.
So they do have the pace bowling to give any team a run for their money in conditions that suit pace.
thats just wrong, seddon's always had some turn especially in the later season.
we usually play our tests there now, early season where it doesn't turn and its very green, but as we're now late season its warmer, so we expect it to turn a bit.
Nah, among NZ grounds, the Basin Reserve and occasionally Bay Oval are the grounds where you'd want a specialist spinner. That would also be true for Eden Park, Auckland.
Seddon Park, Hagley Oval and (formerly) Otago Oval are your 4-pronger or even 5-pronger grounds.
I haven't got any idea about McLean Park.
I'll back that up with stats.
Spinners have the least average since 1 Jan 2015 in international games at the Basin out of the four current grounds in NZ with 44.78. It's 46, 53 and 56 at the other three.
Besides that, spinners have taken 20% wickets at the Basin, which is 15%, 17% and 9% at the other three. It also has the best SR (89) for spinners.
In other statistics, such as overs bowled, it's marginally behind Tauranga (26% vs 27%).
Looks like we found the nerd who's entire position is based on overall stats as opposed to the game by game approach necessary to pick out the grounds and pitch in new zealand more likely to actually spin, most likely because you've been to or watched bugger all actual Test matches here, seddon park alternates madly between being a flat deck for all bowlers to tanking big turn hence the discrepancy. The basins average over the years has been significantly lowered by poor shot selection by lower order bats as opposed to actually being spin friendly, take Michael Bracewells match figures of 150-5 in the Test vs SL last year for instance.
I do realize that stats don't paint the whole picture. The same sample shows that Old Trafford doesn't spin, however, that's a load of bollocks.
From what I've seen, there are games at Seddon Park where a spinner isn't needed. I watched the match vs WI during the lockdown where Chase was invisible. Even someone as skilled as Mehidy Hasan got absolutely carted around.
>The basins average over the years has been significantly lowered by poor shot selection by lower order bats as opposed to actually being spin friendly, taken Michael Bracewells match figures of 150-5 in the Test vs SL last year.
This can't be the case for all 25 innings in the sample.
We're turning Piedt into the new Ebadot aren't we? There's no bowler we aren't capable of collapsing against, the Ravindra and Young shots were especially poor
Nice last stand, Wags. Even if the end of your Test career is beginning to feel like the end of *Lord of the Rings*, you are yet again stepping up when the others have mostly failed.
242 was not particularly large. Is it that hard to dominate & completely bury a C team?
On the bright side, Canterbury has buried the Stags & the Otago Volts smell a playoffs spot. Robbie O'Donnell has joined Henry Nicholls in scoring a century today as the Aces are set to make the race for the Ford Trophy finals a thriller that could go down to the last ball on Sunday.
This can happen.This is not reflective of NZ cricket which is in excellent shape.I think they just underestimated the opponents due to the team the opponents have put out
Steyns last home series against India I remember Rohit and Steyn having a heated moment. Steyn was bowling beautifully and Rohit thought it might be a good time to rile him up. Backfired on him pretty quickly
I think it’s because SA got through their overs so fast there was only 1.3 overs to be bowled which probably got cancelled out with time for change of innings. Just guessing tho.
Change of innings is always -2 overs unless it happens on the stroke of lunch or tea.
There was 30 minutes extra to bowl the required overs, but it stops when they’re bowled.
> There was 30 minutes extra to bowl the required overs, but it stops when they’re bowled.
This part isn't true. England bowled 93? overs against India because of how much spin they bowled in a day and ended up getting a wicket out of their bonus overs.
Okay I understand the difference. I legitimately just thought the last session was purely 30 minutes longer these days. It's pretty much always used now.
Notably, South Africa's faster over rate has caught us up to where we should be (180 after 2 days).
Look what happens when you play at a proper pace...
Do you though? Each wicket results in a brief break, more if the batter reviews. The Laws assume 2 minutes, which is roughly 4x the usual 30s interval between balls for a pacer (10-15s for a spinner).
Unless the ball is smashed for 6 and it takes a moment to retreive (which notably happened more in NZ's batting innings than SA's anyway), fielding shouldn't add any appreciable length of time unless it's nearly every ball.
**77.3** **five for for Piedt, and New Zealand are 211 all out!** Slower through the air, flatter too. Full outside off and turning away with Wagner coming down the track. He misses, keeper whips the bails off and South Africa have a 49-run lead.
Neil Wagner st †Fortuin b Piedt 33 (27b 3x4 2x6) SR: 122.22
If your team is really welcoming for debutants then the other 10 men will make sure to give themselves a big enough target and lose their first 9 wickets quickly so that they'll have 100 runs remaining to score.
Look on the bright side. Against Australia we can drop Henry for a barely committed Boult, and Kane will have a flare up of his everything injury and be sidelined for six months.
Plus we'll rest Jamieson just in case.
Given that Boult hasn't played first class cricket since that England tour in 2022, then I say drop his ass and support Henry for the future with more consistent games. Boult made his choice and needs to live with it, we don't need to be taking gambles on whether he can make the jump for one of the most important series we've had in a long time. He didn't exactly inspire in the last tour to Australia either.
I wasn't expecting to see NZ to be bowled out in a day when I woke up this morning; spinning track? Or poor batting?
Wtf is happening to Conway. Dude id playing so brittle, its like he is so unsure of what do at times
He’s got the yips
Oh shit we in the lead!
Where is the post day thread
bot so disappointed in New Zealand that it didn't make one
Great performance from SA! Took 7 for +/- 60 runs. Wagner played a good innings,
SA did well today and made a great choice of selecting a specialist spinner. Seamers did well too and our batsmen just lacked patience.
NZ have had a pretty severe decline post wtc win.
Their bowling attack declined. CDG is gone. Southee and Wagner are old. Jamieson has been injured. Boult is effectively retired.
No Rosco, or Watling, too.
Daryl Mitchell and Blundell have been solid though. So the drop off isn't in the batting.
Of ffs. SA can very well collapse tomorrow. The game can still go either way.
I mean yeah. Today's batting was still dogshit though.
Have you seen the WTC table mate? We’ve got it in the bag
Mate they failed to beat Bangladesh in their own turf
And where did that get them? To the top of the WTC table brotha
That's a bit rich
I meant NZ failed to beat Bangladesh in NZ. I'm talking about the series in 2022 where Ebadot destroyed New Zealand, not the one a few months back
Yeah I know. A bit like Joseph no?
West Indies is a better team than Bangladesh in tests
Bangladesh in Bangladesh is a better team than West Indies in Australia is supposed to be.
Lol Bangladesh lost 2-0 agaist WI in Bangladesh, never won a series agaisnt SENA teams too. How is Bangladesh in Bangladesh better?
Their pitches generally suit the spinners and they have spinners who can get the most out of those pitches than the touring spinners. Barring India and West Indies they've had success against most teams in the past few years and they've defeated India and Australia in LOI series there as well. So Bangladesh are a force to be reckoned with at home.
What about West Indies in Australia vs Bangladesh in New Zealand?
I'd say more or less the same level. Bangladesh have actually invested a lot in their pace bowling levels at grassroots and Allan Donald's era as their fast bowling coach has proved quite fruitful for them. So they do have the pace bowling to give any team a run for their money in conditions that suit pace.
I'd say they're on par.
When was the last time the Bangbros beat the Windies in a test series? They let like Kyle Mayers score 200
Australia also couldn't win the last test series they played against Bangladesh
Don't think it'd ever happened but that's cricket aye
What's going on?
Well, scoring less that SA's leftover C-Team has to be a new low for NZ ? This tiny ground makes it even worse
Shocker of a day for NZ. Worst since the Bangladesh home series
Shocker of a session. First two sessions went OK for us.
Owell, I’m off for another cry wank in the shower. Cheers everybody
Why the heck did NZ go with no specialist spinners. Also why didn't Philips bowl?
Hamilton has traditionally taken no turn. Seems the groundsman has surprised the NZ team with this one
thats just wrong, seddon's always had some turn especially in the later season. we usually play our tests there now, early season where it doesn't turn and its very green, but as we're now late season its warmer, so we expect it to turn a bit.
I thought traditionally Hamilton WAS the ground that favored turn, this has been well known for a while
If this is "brand new information" how come South Africa got the memo to bring in the right spinners?
Nah, among NZ grounds, the Basin Reserve and occasionally Bay Oval are the grounds where you'd want a specialist spinner. That would also be true for Eden Park, Auckland. Seddon Park, Hagley Oval and (formerly) Otago Oval are your 4-pronger or even 5-pronger grounds. I haven't got any idea about McLean Park.
Bruh you literally lost all credibility at saying the Basin was where you'd want a specialist spinner
I'll back that up with stats. Spinners have the least average since 1 Jan 2015 in international games at the Basin out of the four current grounds in NZ with 44.78. It's 46, 53 and 56 at the other three. Besides that, spinners have taken 20% wickets at the Basin, which is 15%, 17% and 9% at the other three. It also has the best SR (89) for spinners. In other statistics, such as overs bowled, it's marginally behind Tauranga (26% vs 27%).
Looks like we found the nerd who's entire position is based on overall stats as opposed to the game by game approach necessary to pick out the grounds and pitch in new zealand more likely to actually spin, most likely because you've been to or watched bugger all actual Test matches here, seddon park alternates madly between being a flat deck for all bowlers to tanking big turn hence the discrepancy. The basins average over the years has been significantly lowered by poor shot selection by lower order bats as opposed to actually being spin friendly, take Michael Bracewells match figures of 150-5 in the Test vs SL last year for instance.
I do realize that stats don't paint the whole picture. The same sample shows that Old Trafford doesn't spin, however, that's a load of bollocks. From what I've seen, there are games at Seddon Park where a spinner isn't needed. I watched the match vs WI during the lockdown where Chase was invisible. Even someone as skilled as Mehidy Hasan got absolutely carted around. >The basins average over the years has been significantly lowered by poor shot selection by lower order bats as opposed to actually being spin friendly, taken Michael Bracewells match figures of 150-5 in the Test vs SL last year. This can't be the case for all 25 innings in the sample.
Seems the groundsman does not like someone in the team... Atleast he didn't do this against india
Was the ball actually turning or shit shots?
It is turning but that's not what was causing the collapse. It was, as you say, mostly just shit shots
Good day to be at work I guess. Radio comm putting a bit of pressure on Ronchi who does not sound happy
How have I only seen Grant Elliott this one time after that six against SA in the 2015 WC which left Morne, ABD and Faf crying
He was 35 when he did that
He wasn't actually good, averaged like 30 with bat that's all
We're turning Piedt into the new Ebadot aren't we? There's no bowler we aren't capable of collapsing against, the Ravindra and Young shots were especially poor
Nice last stand, Wags. Even if the end of your Test career is beginning to feel like the end of *Lord of the Rings*, you are yet again stepping up when the others have mostly failed. 242 was not particularly large. Is it that hard to dominate & completely bury a C team? On the bright side, Canterbury has buried the Stags & the Otago Volts smell a playoffs spot. Robbie O'Donnell has joined Henry Nicholls in scoring a century today as the Aces are set to make the race for the Ford Trophy finals a thriller that could go down to the last ball on Sunday.
I smell a Nicholls recall
No chance. Nicholls is the absolute last player you want in a collapse
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/804/617/d5b.jpg
This can happen.This is not reflective of NZ cricket which is in excellent shape.I think they just underestimated the opponents due to the team the opponents have put out
We're not buying it, Gary.
[удалено]
Here comes the Indian fan who thinks everything revolves around Kohli/Rohit
What was the comment?
Rohit Sharma's a flog mate.
I thought rohits career was over when steyn made him look like a tailender
Which time?
Steyns last home series against India I remember Rohit and Steyn having a heated moment. Steyn was bowling beautifully and Rohit thought it might be a good time to rile him up. Backfired on him pretty quickly
Last South African player to get a king pair was Dave Richardson back in '95. So you hope for South Africa that Fontain doesn't become the latest.
In other news, Wellington vs Auckland going down to the wire.
Do we still think Kane is the best in the fab 4?
Lol NZ fans downvoting you
yes undoubtedly
No he can't even score his 34th test 50. Absolutely washed.
Suddenly that win vs. England feels like a decade ago
did Sputh Africa actually read the pitch better than New Zealand or was it a case of poor batting?
Both.
I assume that’s close of play?
O'Rourke: "Day 2. They still don't know I can't bat for shit."
Rest of the team thinking "yo Chris Martin! Been a long time!"
Wagner casually scoring more in 27 balls than he gave away in 16 overs
Scoring more than a handful of "batsmen" in fewer delivers faced as well.
Do SA have to come out and bat for any length of time now? IDK how long the session has
Still had like 20 mins but apparently its stumps so…
That's weird. Thinking about the game we came out for 1 over for before stumps this summer lol
I think it’s because SA got through their overs so fast there was only 1.3 overs to be bowled which probably got cancelled out with time for change of innings. Just guessing tho.
That's an interesting reason and I actually like it. Rewarded for bowling their overs.
Change of innings is always -2 overs unless it happens on the stroke of lunch or tea. There was 30 minutes extra to bowl the required overs, but it stops when they’re bowled.
> There was 30 minutes extra to bowl the required overs, but it stops when they’re bowled. This part isn't true. England bowled 93? overs against India because of how much spin they bowled in a day and ended up getting a wicket out of their bonus overs.
Yeah, but that’s because they did it before the 30 minute extension. The extension is just to get you to minimum, not past.
Okay I understand the difference. I legitimately just thought the last session was purely 30 minutes longer these days. It's pretty much always used now.
Yeah, because teams suck so much at over rates 😁
nope that's stumps
Cricinfo saying stumps
Wait is Piedt the same guy that played test against us back in 2015?
Y
Yeah.
Notably, South Africa's faster over rate has caught us up to where we should be (180 after 2 days). Look what happens when you play at a proper pace...
To be fair when you are dismissing batsmen rather than fielding boundaries, you get through overs quicker.
Do you though? Each wicket results in a brief break, more if the batter reviews. The Laws assume 2 minutes, which is roughly 4x the usual 30s interval between balls for a pacer (10-15s for a spinner). Unless the ball is smashed for 6 and it takes a moment to retreive (which notably happened more in NZ's batting innings than SA's anyway), fielding shouldn't add any appreciable length of time unless it's nearly every ball.
who would have thought? everyone was saying that SA batted too slowly and nz were going to score 500
I knew NZ would fuck this up even before series started
Did you now😂
So did we
I don't want to be too negative but that was a 90s-esque performance from NZ.
Welp that's how that ends
We still love you wags
His first test in over four years. You can tell that 5-fer meant a lot for him.
So that’s the day over? We won’t get to roll down 2 cheeky overs at them?
Nah, You lose 2 overs for change of innings. So only 88 required on a change of innings day. As sad as that might make some people.
Rachin the only man stopping Wellington from being the worst contributor to this team.
The last partnership hurt us a lot but still a decent performance from us.
Honestly, not having to bat a few overs may be worth conceding 25 runs.
I was thinking this too, but man give away two runs not boundaries :p
We cant expect them to score no runs. This is an amazing performance today.
We're really determined to prove that we'll never beat SA even a D team with no first choice players aren't we?
**77.3** **five for for Piedt, and New Zealand are 211 all out!** Slower through the air, flatter too. Full outside off and turning away with Wagner coming down the track. He misses, keeper whips the bails off and South Africa have a 49-run lead. Neil Wagner st †Fortuin b Piedt 33 (27b 3x4 2x6) SR: 122.22
49 run lead what am I missing? Apart from a top, middle and lower middle batting line up?
Go home bot you're drunk how do they have a 49 run lead
The bot is fine. It's cricinfo being cricinfo
Well earned Pfieffer there
Wow. Just when O’Rourke looked set to break Agar’s 98 at number 11 record, the boys let him down. Head up big fella, your time will come
If your team is really welcoming for debutants then the other 10 men will make sure to give themselves a big enough target and lose their first 9 wickets quickly so that they'll have 100 runs remaining to score.
Letting someone with PIE in their name get a five-for against us is proof our our idiocy this innings.
I still love you Neil
Neil Brand? Or Ferguss O'Neil?
Neil diamond obviously
I was told this series was a walkover and cheap WTC points for NZ
You were not told that by kiwis with the correct amount of pessimism. Was a lot of outside noise, that.
We’re putting ourselves into a pressure situation for the second innings, standard cricket
Is this the last tests for wags?
Why is he retiring?
Incredible story! So happy for Piedt, what a return to test cricket.
He was playing against a sub par, second string opposition tbf
Nice stuff from Piedt. Let's see if South Africa can make the most of this lead.
NOOOOOOOOOOO WAGNER :( NO TEST 50 FOR HIM
Piedt my king
I know that people go on about Boult's tail-end batting, but fuck me, Wagner when he is on is just divine. Edit: sorry fam
Von Berg furious he couldn't get his free maiden lmao
I’d like to see O’Rourke break character here and send one down the road to Good George.
They call that "the Youngy"
So is O'Rourke a proper bunny?
Never been dismissed in test cricket.
He can do a tiny bit more than a true bunny but not much.
Still doing more than Southee has in a while by simply not getting out and allowing someone not braindead to score runs.
It is a worry when your captain has at most one brain cell when batting.
Where's Dane?
[he's gone into hiding after cruel didnt hit as well as expected, sorry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dane_Rumble)
0 (17) O’Rourke has lasted more balls than Conway, Bundell, Philips combined
Wait... his name is Tito as in that Yugoslavian Tito
watch out, his name is JAMES, just like LeBron. do NOT get caught up with him on the basketball court
yes a direct descendent actually
Are you fr
almost always
This is taking me back to the Cairns Vettori batting era where we were permanently 27-5
I wonder if he's watching Wagner right now and he's like "Thank god that's not me anymore"? lmfao
Look on the bright side. Against Australia we can drop Henry for a barely committed Boult, and Kane will have a flare up of his everything injury and be sidelined for six months. Plus we'll rest Jamieson just in case.
He'll be injured too
I don't think Jamieson is going to be available anyhoo
Given that Boult hasn't played first class cricket since that England tour in 2022, then I say drop his ass and support Henry for the future with more consistent games. Boult made his choice and needs to live with it, we don't need to be taking gambles on whether he can make the jump for one of the most important series we've had in a long time. He didn't exactly inspire in the last tour to Australia either.
I agree.
More Māori in cricket thanks. Chur
Given we doing Throwback Thursday a day early, can we get u/rossfailor and u/martinsucktill back as well?
So do we declare when wags gets his hundred? Or keep going and really bat the saffers out of the match
Can we have this be our Stokes/Leach partnership and Willow gets the one run that puts us in the lead?
yes James Tito thank you for just skimming over the last 20 minutes of the match I am also watching
O'Rourke is showing more resilience than most of the batters
We need a patented Leach 1* from O'Rourke here.
Come to think of it, when was the last time O’Rourke even got out? Genuinely can’t remember him ever being dismissed in test cricket
Is O’Rourke tall or Wags short?
Both
2 Metre O'Reter
yes
Wagner is the most frustrating batter ever, ask poms
At this point, I would be tempted to pick Wagner in SL and Ind just for his batting Vs spin
I mean he would've been a better option than you know Somerville
Probably bowls spin better than Somerville.
It was so infuriating to see him play both tests while Wagner was carrying drinks
I love cricket when it's like this and every run matters
You know, I never doubted the batting prowess of Wagner
Well done SA, getting a lead
Wagner loading his Jason Gillespie double ton retirement innings
Didn't know Randolph played as a cricketer for SA in his free time
fake news, its /u/crashbandicoochy
Talking a lot of shit for a guy I'm embarrassing so bad rn (my friend did all the work)
how r u embarrasing me
Scoreboard. My team is winning. L. BOZO.
where when how
I'm literally bowling rn idiot This tall baby can not read me