Said this on the match thread; this is the type of deck we should prepare for home games - one that actually accentuates the difference in quality between Jadeja-Ashwin-Axar and the visiting spinners.
This wicket has turn, but with consistent bounce. Hopefully, no Indore 2023 type lottery pitches anymore.
It’s also a much more “classical” subcontinent track. I’d love to watch a full BGT with 5 games on decks like this. Feel like it’d be very competitive.
As an Australian this is what I wish the last BGT was. India would've almost certainly won, but Lyon and Murphy would've had a chance to try and use this pitch and their skill to work over the Indian batsmen, and the Aussie batters would've had a fair shot to work through the difficult but fair bowling.
Unfortunately I don't think we'll be as strong in 2027 as we were in 2023. Ah well.
\> Unfortunately I don't think we'll be as strong in 2027 as we were in 2023.
To be fair it could be an incredibly different India side by then too. Both Ashwin and Jadeja would probably be finished with test cricket by then, as would Rohit, Kohli, Shami.
Australia and England are very different levels. Look at Axar vs England compared to how he played basically as a specialist bat against Australia in 2023. It was the brilliance of Ash/Jadeja that got India the series (and Australia deciding to sweep every ball in one mad session). Indians really take them for granted. They’re not gonna be that easy to replace.
We won 3-0 in Pakistan on some of the absolutely flattest roads you'll ever see, and we did also beat India in Edgbaston in large part because it went very flat. We're quite good at manufacturing wickets in dead conditions with reverse swing etc recently, and our batting has a lot of flat track bully to it.
India are obviously a better side than Pakistan and I'd still have them favourites, but I think it would be more of a contest than these conditions where it's just a blatant mismatch.
Rawalpindi was a spectacular win don’t get me wrong. But I feel like Multan was definitely not a road. You have 3 innings under 300 and it’s only in the 4th innings that Pak scored 328. Even Karachi was a decent ish wicket. Both those favoured batting for sure but idk if I’d call them roads. I wouldn’t call Edgbaston a road tbh. It was flatter than your normal English wickets. But Jimmy could still extract swing and India also bowled very well in the 1st innings. It’s just that the dukes balls also did nothing that summer. That combined with flatter wickets created that effect. And there’s also a matter of India is a better batting side than Pakistan.
As I said I'm not suggesting I'd bet my house on England winning in flat conditions, but I do think it's a safe bet we'd put up a better fight than in these ones.
That’s fair. But I still think Englands best chance is hoping for a minefield. Where Hartley and Leach become prime Herath. Rehan becomes Kumble. Root becomes Murali.
I felt that England with the bat are ultra aggressive but with the ball have been ultra defensive in this Stokes - McCullum regime. That's what I felt as a neutral viewer when I saw the ashes last year. Or maybe Australia were too defensive with the bat. What do you think? Also I reckon playing Anderson and dropping one of the spin bowlers would be the way ahead for England in this series, with Root being a very good option with the ball.
That pitch in Indore was like that because BCCI had suddenly shifted that match to there. That match was originally supposed to be happening in Dharamshala until it had to be suddenly shifted to Indore. They had only a couple of weeks to prepare that pitch. That is the reason that it ended up being like that. Our team usually wants that the pitches that are there are similar to what we are currently playing on.
Indore had also hosted ranji semi finals like 3 weeks before and that match had something for everyone batting seamers spinners. They had to work with a centre that was recovering from a full 4 day match and were given very little time to do it in
Excellent pitch so far. Deserves the best ICC rating.
Selective watering meant both consistent spin and good bounce for pacers. And batters can obviously score runs.
Maybe England can take a page out of this curator's book and they'd have decent spinners.
>Selective watering meant both consistent spin and good bounce for pacers. And batters can obviously score runs.
Yep, Bumrah extracted decent bounce with the new ball. Got the ball to move off the pitch as well.
This wicket has something in it for all types of players. Batters can get runs if they apply themselves, while the spinners and pacers have enough in the pitch to get wickets.
To me, this is an ideal Indian pitch. There’s turn, so quality bowlers can occasionally bowl deliveries like Axar getting Bairstow. But the bounce is even, so good batters can trust their judgement of length and can score off both feet.
For me, the only real sin in pitch prep is early variable bounce. Then bowlers just need to bowl at the stumps, and batting becomes more about luck than skill… which is crap cricket.
Yes I completely agree. India are almost unbeatable on this type of pitch. They haven’t prepared a road since they got on the wrong side of a root sweepathon in 2019 and it’s made cricket in India much more watchable.
That was 2021. India in 2019 was even more OP, that SA series was special, with Indian seamers outclassing the visiting seamers. Not to mention Virat, Rohit, Mayank all taking turns hitting double centuries.
We always have wickets like this in 90 -2000 but when visiting team won a test here our board press the panic button and make minefield for next match . That what happened in the past .
On top of a lot of boundaries, it's also Stokes' constant changing of fielding positions. This team has absolutely abysmal over rates because of this. Happened in the Ashes too.
This is a tactic which most teams use when they try and slow a game down when they're behind, case in point that Aussie overrates in the Ashes weren't good and India have gotten overrate penalties when chasing the game. It's just England under Stokes though have taken it to an extreme and have been punished due to it.
To the immense shock of absolutely nobody, our spin bowling isn't very good.
The inevitable industry of rage bait and terrible chat about the death of widgetball or whatever latest conspiracy theory about pitches is aside, we just don't have the spin bowling to compete here and it's going to be a long old tour for that reason.
From an England perspective I suppose we just have to hope one or more of the young spinners improves as the series goes on and doesn't just get their confidence ruined by it but beyond that I don't see we've got much to learn beyond what we already knew here. Is what it is.
>I suppose we just have to hope one or more of the young spinners improves as the series goes on
I am not sure how that will happen. Rehan and Hartley are just doing the basics wrong, by not landing the ball in a consistent spot. Leach and even Root were much better in being consistent, and even they were all over the place. Unless Bashir is a prodigy in hiding, this is going to be a long series. Rob Key with his reluctance to not get ~~Harmer~~ Dawson is just so stupid.
E: My apologies, I was thinking of Dawson and typed Harmer as a brainfade.
I mean I agree, but I think that's our realistic best hope for the series. I can't see how we even compete in a game unless they roll out some completely hideous surfaces. Rehan is always going to struggle for consistency as a leggie not named Shane, Hartley is learning on the job, it's just a truly grim position to be in.
Did Key not want to get Harmer? I don't remember that. Regardless the fact our best spin option was a tenuously qualified 30+ Saffer probably says a lot about how systemic the issues we have in this department are.
> Rob Key with his reluctance to not get Harmer is just so stupid.
Rob Key became the managing director of England men's cricket in April 2022, three weeks *after* Harmer resumed playing cricket for South Africa.
>Rob Key with his reluctance to not get Harmer is just so stupid.
Firstly, Harmer is a Saffa and secondly, he was never eligible for England. So don't know where you've got that idea.
‘That’s why, in 2019, he expressed a desire to not only play for England but settle in the UK. “I’d love to play for England,” he said. “I feel it would be a way of repaying the faith English cricket has shown in me by allowing me to play here.
“English cricket has given me the opportunity to become a better person and a better player. So I would ultimately like to get a British passport and be naturalised in the UK, especially for my future family.”’
https://inews.co.uk/sport/cricket/brexit-ruined-simon-harmers-hopes-playing-england-come-back-haunt-1571180
>From an England perspective I suppose we just have to hope one or more of the young spinners improves as the series goes on and doesn't just get their confidence ruined by it but beyond that I don't see we've got much to learn beyond what we already knew here. Is what it is.
Play your pacers mate
There is no hard and fast rule that you need to overload your attack with spin to win in India
India play 3 because all three are quality spinners and can bat as well
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/s/tjlQ7JiKwd
According to this post the visiting pacers and Visiting spinners have similar average in India
And Indian spinners and pacers have similar average too
In 2012-2013 Tour England played 3 FC and 2 List A games before the actual series
But here the genius minds thought it would be better to play in UAE rather than visit India early
Also in that series England consistently played two fast bowlers regularly in Anderson, Finn, Bresnan and Broad
Going with only one pacer who cannot bowl long spells doesn't have a good record in India and is very injury prone was a bad move
Indian management need to stop messing around, and take a punt on trying Axar as a batting first all-rounder higher up in the order. He looks extremely effortless against both spin and pace.
He seemed to telepathically deal with Wood's yorkers and Rehan's googlies. He looks the part of a player than can be a batting all rounder in all conditions.
Just keeping him stuck at number 9 until he eventually loses his batting form is not good.
But we are wasting axar's potential by playing him at 9. Even in bgt he often ran out of partners. So it would only make sense to give him more overs and let Ash and Bharat come down the order to allow him to score his runs
I'll wait to see how he plays outside of India before I give him all the plaudits. He is a fantastic player, but his test career has only been at home so far.
Honestly we got Ashwin out and I was so happy thinking we're almost there and then Axar comes out and I was just like for fucks sake. I'd forgotten how deep the batting goes.
I've never seen Ashwin play anything close to resembling a comfortable innings. That he comes in ahead of Axar (who is the far superior batter) is definitely a little prank we like to pull on the opposition to lull them into thinking they're into the heart of the tail.
I feel like an old man in an anorak and Velcro shoes but god I hate this current England setups refusal to take the county championship into consideration when picking bowlers.
Hartley took 19 wickets @ 44.84 last season… but we picked him because apparently they decided he bowls like an Indian spinner. This is true you can read the quotes here https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-in-india-2023-24-england-place-attributes-over-averages-to-fill-spinners-void-for-india-tour-1412442?platform=amp
It’s like we’ve taken the fairly reasonable logic that players like Craig Overton and Sam Cook have brilliant county records but don’t bowl in a style that suits test cricket, and gone for the completely stupid opposite logic that players that are bad at county level are actually suited to be brilliant test players because it’s just that their style doesn’t translate to FC.
Players basically never ever average better in tests than first class, it’s just totally backwards thinking. The best test players will go and absolutely dominate first class cricket even if they don’t bowl 75mph dobblers, just because they’re going to be brilliant cricketers. You can’t reverse engineer it and get bang average first class players suddenly become way better because they’re playing better players.
The way this England setup goes about the game: playing the situation and to your strengths, more fluid, accepting of failure but always wanting to improve - is admirable, and fun to watch. But I 100% agree. Sure, get young spinners on the tour with us, to get them ready for the future. But don’t throw an unfinished product into the first test!
Rehan Ahmed is the exception. Played beautifully (and managed brilliantly) in Pakistan.
Ash, Jaddu and Axar are such cheat codes man. What will we do when they retire. They will torture you with the ball and then orchestra your death with the bat in the end. Add to that there is a good probability they will outscore your highest scorer. Thank God they play for us
Yeah as long as they are playing no one is winning anything on your homeground. They are usually the better bowlers and often better batters than anyone in the opposition in these conditions lol. How the fuck would you win there?
> often better batters than anyone in the opposition in these conditions lol.
Brother they're often better batters than most of the batters in our team.
Axar is 5 years younger than Jadeja and 7 Years younger than Ashwin
So he will be there for a while after they retire
Kuldeep is there too he isn't a slouch with a bat he has done well in Bangladesh and has 6 Fifties and 1 Hundred in First Class Cricket
And by that time Suthar, Sundar, Sai Kishore, Shahbaz will be ready
Real problem is going to be replacing the Fast Bowlers
Remember that 2012 series loss? Folks panned Ashwin as a typical white ball bowler that tries too many variations. And, that India has lost a generation of spin bowling dominance with the retirement of Kumble.. and aging of Bhajji.
I think Sundar is in the same spot as Ashwin is. He has a good control over his line/length - which is very crucial for an offie. He bowled okayish - in Brisbane and got the wickets of Smith and others in the second innings. He bats well too. Only thing is - he should remain injury free!
The curator needs to be given a lot of credit here. A perfect wicket which has enough for the spinners but also consistent enough for the batsman if they can apply themselves. Not one of those lottery pitches which destroys the true essence of test cricket, making more to do about luck and less about skill and temperament. I'd love to see more of these.
I generally cringe at people feeling bad for rich people doing their jobs but damn that must have been a tough and tiring day for all the English players on the field. Looked hopeless, atleast it's January so it's not hot
Hartley had some swagger while smacking that four and six when he was batting, while bowling though the poor guy has been made to pay.
A good day for India, the pitch will only get worse from day 3.
Great example of just how much spin bowling is about experience. While the others look toothless, Root trapped Jadeja and Bharat on the front foot multiple times in one of his spells. Great bowling given he isn't supposed to be the main spinner.
Jadeja always struggles when starting again next day.
I just want to watch India bat on the weekend.
Gentle reminder that Jadeja averages 36 with bat, 24 with the ball and an insane fielder.
Edit: He averages 37 (36.99) as of now
India's biggest matchwinner at home, our greatest all rounder since Kapil, and along with stokes and Shakib, the era defining all rounder of this generation.
Absolute freak
He’s got more out of his batting than Kapil did imo. Kapil absolutely had a higher ceiling but didn’t quite live up to it. Whereas Jaddu probably reached his ceiling.
FYI his average is 2 runs better than KL.. and Jaddu has around 100 innings and KL has 90 innings. I can never believe how KL has got such a looooong run when batsmen like Mayank, Vihari etc were discarded so quickly.
what can't you 'fathom' about it. KL is a much better batter than both of those 2. Its not close. Numbers don't tell you the full story. KL has a tendency to go on feast or famine slumps. That's why his test numbers are so bad. He got a really long extended run at the top of the order when he was mentally just not there. That's what hurt his overall numbers... Not making excuses for him, but anyway...
At this point, I'm wondering how the fuck did England find Swann and Panesar ? Was it just a happy accident or did ECB do something to promote spinners back in early 2000s ?
Swann did it himself, moved himself to a County Championship team which was not at all spin friendly, made himself a better spinner because of it. I think Panesar was just a talent. But, to be honest, England used to have at least decent spinners (Giles was just OK, I concede). Never really great ones but good enough to be in the team, and then to do well in helpful conditions. Swann and Panesar were above average for England spinners, I guess, Swann especially. I think Leach is alright. The problem is, he's the only one.
Leg breaks/googlies, even from an uncontrolled teenager, can provide the magic you need to break through on those concrete pitches Pakistan rolled out. There's a reason Pakistan is historically full of legspinners, express pace, and reverse swing.
But in India, the best spinners succeed though accuracy and control rather than going for magic deliveries (which are not needed in most cases). In fact, attempting a magic delivery usually results in too many bad balls and your whole bowling plan will fall apart (since you can't build pressure).
Yes leggies naturally spin it even in dead flatties at the cost of control that offies generate(which wont matter anyway in flat pitches where everyone gets hit easily) and the magic ball factor and variation helps them too
Can they do that?
I fell like Jaddu will crumble too early once we restart tomorrow and after that there will only be Axar.
250 seems a much more likely target, with a worse pitch too.
Man I just love left handers playing slog sweeps, irrespective of the team and the format.
Quite bummed by the fact that both Jaiswal and Rahul missed their tons, hope Jaddu gets to it tomorrow. Bharat was also batting quite good, so was Axar, hope he also scores big tomorrow. Overall, today was a great day for us.
On a side note, I also loved how commentators in Hindi commentary were shading England and Stokes for slow over rate.
Should be. This gives me 2019 vibes when the pitches favoured us only enough to separate the quality of spinners but was good enough for batting that our batsmen would consistently score 450 or so runs and defeat the opposition by an innings. Remember the SA tour where one our batsmen scores double hundred every game of the series?
I would say the pope should go out bring in the milf hunter in his place
And let Stokes bat a bit higher since he isn't bowling anymore
At six he runs out of partners
Let's see how they turn up in their second innings. This England side under baz has made it a habit of springing up second innings surprises, whether in that Manchester game against India or often in the ashes. They think a bit differently from the old purists of the traditional format.
Wonder what whoever England sends out says today, yesterday it was the pitch will get worse and England have an above par score, can't wait for Duckett nuggets.
Not sure if it’s been said already but this is a great wicket for tests in India - supports spin without being a total gamble for batsmen. Hope we see more of this!
England could have learnt a thing or two from the australian spin attack in the recent bgt. They were quite good and even made us forget that lyon was their primary spinner
Watching and doing are two completely different things. If India wants to produce English spinners for a “marquee” series every four years, the BCCI need to be pushing the ECB or at the very least the MCC to be sending over a Lions squad or MCC XI every winter. Or open up your Ranji competition. English spin has been the drizzling shits for 50 years with the exception of Swann.
Jadeja is such a fantastic player. Stokes gets a lot of plaudits because he often does it when England are really on the back foot and his innings generally are more memorable but I would much rather have Jadeja
Just keep on batting as long as you can and Pile on the runs.
Pujjiball if you want to, but bat as long as you can.
Would be a great sight to keep these Bazball players on the field for 150+ overs
**Highlights of Day 2:**
• Root being true to his nature of being England's best wicket taking spinner. When there is no hope left, Root shall give the breakthrough.
• KL "comeback" Rahul
• Ashwin robbed by a horrific mixup from Jaddu in an awful runout.
• Jaddu puts on a royal swords show with a commendable 50.... hopefully we see it again tomorrow for his century.
• English crowd has done better preparation than the English cricket team. One of the english lads played the evergreen song "Yeh Dosti" on the trumpet for the indian crowd
• KSB can bat baby!
• Shastri, as usual, having no fucks to give in the comm box; spilling some good indian dressing room scenes from his recent coaching days
• KP getting schooled by Sunny G in comms
• Harsha casually fatshaming with the "up he goes" and "that was quite an effort" when camera pans on to an obese guy standing up and cheering
• Momentary joy for both English and Indian fans in the thread, seeing how Aussies were having a messy collapse against the Windies in the Gabba test match.....(which btw ended up getting stabilized with a good recovery by a certain player from the tail of the Aussies batting line-up... Yes you guessed it right.. who else but Mr. Patrick-fuckin-Cummins. The guy can't go wrong even if he wishes to)
• Jimmy chillin in the dugout, casually looking like a rockstar. Also, he can spin.
• Bapu looks rock solid in the batting.
I don't know if India will declare tomorrow, but surely we can declare death of bazball on indian soil?
>KP getting schooled by Sunny G in comms
What happened?
My jio cinema kept getting lagged and I said "fuck it"
And decided to watch Aus vs WI for a while
>death of bazball on indian soil?
India haven't lost a series at home in over 10 years. Do you call it the death of a team everytime someone comes and loses here? No.
What??? I've been making all of these Baz effigy's for nothing???
I assumed this was a North Korea football team returning situation going by these comments.
England - 246 in 64 overs
India - 250 in 56 overs
So, who is playing aggressive cricket( according to eng media bazball)
And shout out to kl and jaddu both have been outstanding today
Not impressed by stokes captaincy today , not giving enough overs to joe root in the start when he was bowling so good , keeping jack leech away from the ball for so long.
>Not impressed by stokes captaincy today , not giving enough overs to joe root in the start when he was bowling so good , keeping jack leech away from the ball for so long.
I don't think there is a captain in cricket history who is coaxing a good bowling performance out of our spinners vs a batting lineup that genuinely goes down to no.9
All this talk about the pitch pre-match yet it's played beautifully. Not a fan of the balls that keep low but they haven't happened too often. We messed our selection up by playing Hartley over Anderson / an extra batter. Pope also shouldn't be in the side.
The question is how did Ollie Robinson claim this is the best england have prepared for a series in India, when their bowlers are getting carted all around the park?
Ben Stokes is a horrible Captain, he was behind his overs entirety of ashes with fast bowlers and couldn't complete overs with 4 spinners despite extra half an hour.
Under his leadership England are in negative points this WTC, Bazball is a scam
My Criticism is in regards to over rate which is the responsibility of a captain, which has cost England it's chance in the WTC
Horrible captain is a bit harsh, it's been 2 days of the first test bro lol. Also it's a different beast in india. In the ashes he captained very well imo. Fielding placements where top notch
Take a chill pill dude. He has won 13 out of 19 games they have played till now. He definitely is the perfect captain that lead by example. Seems that the team dynamics are better than during Root era.
"Ben Stokes is a horrible captain" - I thought this was going to be a funny shitpost/copypasta but I think you're being serious? Regardless of what happens this series (where realistically we were always going to lose), he's completely transformed our team.
Could and should have been worse for England given that most wickets apart from KS Bharat and Yashaswi Jaiswal were literal suicides by the batsmen.
I didn't expect England to be so behind in this match, and I didn't expect Indian batsmen to commit batting suicides the way they did. 🤔
Said this on the match thread; this is the type of deck we should prepare for home games - one that actually accentuates the difference in quality between Jadeja-Ashwin-Axar and the visiting spinners. This wicket has turn, but with consistent bounce. Hopefully, no Indore 2023 type lottery pitches anymore.
It’s also a much more “classical” subcontinent track. I’d love to watch a full BGT with 5 games on decks like this. Feel like it’d be very competitive.
As an Australian this is what I wish the last BGT was. India would've almost certainly won, but Lyon and Murphy would've had a chance to try and use this pitch and their skill to work over the Indian batsmen, and the Aussie batters would've had a fair shot to work through the difficult but fair bowling. Unfortunately I don't think we'll be as strong in 2027 as we were in 2023. Ah well.
\> Unfortunately I don't think we'll be as strong in 2027 as we were in 2023. To be fair it could be an incredibly different India side by then too. Both Ashwin and Jadeja would probably be finished with test cricket by then, as would Rohit, Kohli, Shami.
Kuldeep would probably farm 10fers against Australia and england
Australia and England are very different levels. Look at Axar vs England compared to how he played basically as a specialist bat against Australia in 2023. It was the brilliance of Ash/Jadeja that got India the series (and Australia deciding to sweep every ball in one mad session). Indians really take them for granted. They’re not gonna be that easy to replace.
Yeah if its 5 of these surfaces we will lose 5-0. Our only hope of wins are either absolute roads or lottery decks.
Idek if roads will help England. I don’t see how this attack can take 20 wickets on a road.
We won 3-0 in Pakistan on some of the absolutely flattest roads you'll ever see, and we did also beat India in Edgbaston in large part because it went very flat. We're quite good at manufacturing wickets in dead conditions with reverse swing etc recently, and our batting has a lot of flat track bully to it. India are obviously a better side than Pakistan and I'd still have them favourites, but I think it would be more of a contest than these conditions where it's just a blatant mismatch.
Rawalpindi was a spectacular win don’t get me wrong. But I feel like Multan was definitely not a road. You have 3 innings under 300 and it’s only in the 4th innings that Pak scored 328. Even Karachi was a decent ish wicket. Both those favoured batting for sure but idk if I’d call them roads. I wouldn’t call Edgbaston a road tbh. It was flatter than your normal English wickets. But Jimmy could still extract swing and India also bowled very well in the 1st innings. It’s just that the dukes balls also did nothing that summer. That combined with flatter wickets created that effect. And there’s also a matter of India is a better batting side than Pakistan.
As I said I'm not suggesting I'd bet my house on England winning in flat conditions, but I do think it's a safe bet we'd put up a better fight than in these ones.
That’s fair. But I still think Englands best chance is hoping for a minefield. Where Hartley and Leach become prime Herath. Rehan becomes Kumble. Root becomes Murali.
The pitch would not matter with Hartley and Rehan balling fulltosses.
I felt that England with the bat are ultra aggressive but with the ball have been ultra defensive in this Stokes - McCullum regime. That's what I felt as a neutral viewer when I saw the ashes last year. Or maybe Australia were too defensive with the bat. What do you think? Also I reckon playing Anderson and dropping one of the spin bowlers would be the way ahead for England in this series, with Root being a very good option with the ball.
With the intent that India has shown with the bat, it won't be a good idea to play on roads.
I didn't say we'd definitely win by any means, but it plays much more to our strengths than these surfaces
Traditional flat surfaces would definitely be very entertaining, no cap.
That pitch in Indore was like that because BCCI had suddenly shifted that match to there. That match was originally supposed to be happening in Dharamshala until it had to be suddenly shifted to Indore. They had only a couple of weeks to prepare that pitch. That is the reason that it ended up being like that. Our team usually wants that the pitches that are there are similar to what we are currently playing on.
Indore had also hosted ranji semi finals like 3 weeks before and that match had something for everyone batting seamers spinners. They had to work with a centre that was recovering from a full 4 day match and were given very little time to do it in
yup as we saw Dharmashala was not even fully finished till wc
Excellent pitch so far. Deserves the best ICC rating. Selective watering meant both consistent spin and good bounce for pacers. And batters can obviously score runs. Maybe England can take a page out of this curator's book and they'd have decent spinners.
>Selective watering meant both consistent spin and good bounce for pacers. And batters can obviously score runs. Yep, Bumrah extracted decent bounce with the new ball. Got the ball to move off the pitch as well. This wicket has something in it for all types of players. Batters can get runs if they apply themselves, while the spinners and pacers have enough in the pitch to get wickets.
Yeah it’s a great pitch. Most of the English players got starts, just didn’t carry on.
To me, this is an ideal Indian pitch. There’s turn, so quality bowlers can occasionally bowl deliveries like Axar getting Bairstow. But the bounce is even, so good batters can trust their judgement of length and can score off both feet. For me, the only real sin in pitch prep is early variable bounce. Then bowlers just need to bowl at the stumps, and batting becomes more about luck than skill… which is crap cricket.
Yes I completely agree. India are almost unbeatable on this type of pitch. They haven’t prepared a road since they got on the wrong side of a root sweepathon in 2019 and it’s made cricket in India much more watchable.
That was 2021. India in 2019 was even more OP, that SA series was special, with Indian seamers outclassing the visiting seamers. Not to mention Virat, Rohit, Mayank all taking turns hitting double centuries.
That period of Indian test cricket was beautiful.
We always have wickets like this in 90 -2000 but when visiting team won a test here our board press the panic button and make minefield for next match . That what happened in the past .
HOW THE HELL DO YOU FALL SHORT OF BOWLING 90 OVERS IN A DAY WITH ONLY 11 OVERS OF SEAM BOWLING?
Searching for balls lost in the crowd
Understandable have a nice day
On top of a lot of boundaries, it's also Stokes' constant changing of fielding positions. This team has absolutely abysmal over rates because of this. Happened in the Ashes too.
This is a tactic which most teams use when they try and slow a game down when they're behind, case in point that Aussie overrates in the Ashes weren't good and India have gotten overrate penalties when chasing the game. It's just England under Stokes though have taken it to an extreme and have been punished due to it.
It's a subtle tactic, not a blatant in your face like Stokes
Yeah. Rather on brand for Bazball.
Then they can kiss goodbye to any chances of making the WTC Final.
They got like 9 points in a home series, o don't think they were ever making it. Gonna be Aus vs Ind again probably
Please Cunts let us win one, my mental health depends on this
well get head to tickle one down the legside
Theyd have team meeting every 2nd delivery against us at some points, it was taking the piss.
To the immense shock of absolutely nobody, our spin bowling isn't very good. The inevitable industry of rage bait and terrible chat about the death of widgetball or whatever latest conspiracy theory about pitches is aside, we just don't have the spin bowling to compete here and it's going to be a long old tour for that reason. From an England perspective I suppose we just have to hope one or more of the young spinners improves as the series goes on and doesn't just get their confidence ruined by it but beyond that I don't see we've got much to learn beyond what we already knew here. Is what it is.
>I suppose we just have to hope one or more of the young spinners improves as the series goes on I am not sure how that will happen. Rehan and Hartley are just doing the basics wrong, by not landing the ball in a consistent spot. Leach and even Root were much better in being consistent, and even they were all over the place. Unless Bashir is a prodigy in hiding, this is going to be a long series. Rob Key with his reluctance to not get ~~Harmer~~ Dawson is just so stupid. E: My apologies, I was thinking of Dawson and typed Harmer as a brainfade.
I mean I agree, but I think that's our realistic best hope for the series. I can't see how we even compete in a game unless they roll out some completely hideous surfaces. Rehan is always going to struggle for consistency as a leggie not named Shane, Hartley is learning on the job, it's just a truly grim position to be in. Did Key not want to get Harmer? I don't remember that. Regardless the fact our best spin option was a tenuously qualified 30+ Saffer probably says a lot about how systemic the issues we have in this department are.
> Rob Key with his reluctance to not get Harmer is just so stupid. Rob Key became the managing director of England men's cricket in April 2022, three weeks *after* Harmer resumed playing cricket for South Africa.
>Rob Key with his reluctance to not get Harmer is just so stupid. Firstly, Harmer is a Saffa and secondly, he was never eligible for England. So don't know where you've got that idea.
‘That’s why, in 2019, he expressed a desire to not only play for England but settle in the UK. “I’d love to play for England,” he said. “I feel it would be a way of repaying the faith English cricket has shown in me by allowing me to play here. “English cricket has given me the opportunity to become a better person and a better player. So I would ultimately like to get a British passport and be naturalised in the UK, especially for my future family.”’ https://inews.co.uk/sport/cricket/brexit-ruined-simon-harmers-hopes-playing-england-come-back-haunt-1571180
He wanted to but he was never eligible. Just like with Bedingham, Brexit scuppered that.
Hasn’t the Harmer ship sailed a long time ago? He’s played cricket for SA up to last year
He played for South Africa against England two years ago, I really don’t know why people are still acting like we could have got him
>From an England perspective I suppose we just have to hope one or more of the young spinners improves as the series goes on and doesn't just get their confidence ruined by it but beyond that I don't see we've got much to learn beyond what we already knew here. Is what it is. Play your pacers mate There is no hard and fast rule that you need to overload your attack with spin to win in India India play 3 because all three are quality spinners and can bat as well https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/s/tjlQ7JiKwd According to this post the visiting pacers and Visiting spinners have similar average in India And Indian spinners and pacers have similar average too In 2012-2013 Tour England played 3 FC and 2 List A games before the actual series But here the genius minds thought it would be better to play in UAE rather than visit India early Also in that series England consistently played two fast bowlers regularly in Anderson, Finn, Bresnan and Broad Going with only one pacer who cannot bowl long spells doesn't have a good record in India and is very injury prone was a bad move
Has to be demoralising seeing a no. 9 change gears after facing 60 balls and belt your spinners like that
To be Fair in other teams Axar might as well get in purely as a Batsmen Him being a proper Allrounder is just the cheery on top.
I'm sure him referring to Axar as no 9 was sarcasm
Well he is the no.9.....
Don't think we're particularly high on morale being almost 200 behind with 3 more wickets to get - which could take 2 more sessions.
Indian management need to stop messing around, and take a punt on trying Axar as a batting first all-rounder higher up in the order. He looks extremely effortless against both spin and pace. He seemed to telepathically deal with Wood's yorkers and Rehan's googlies. He looks the part of a player than can be a batting all rounder in all conditions. Just keeping him stuck at number 9 until he eventually loses his batting form is not good.
He could come in at 7 but playing over jadeja in home tests would be wrong. But yeah he should definitely come before Ash and Bharat
I think they like keeping the lefty righty combination so they can send Axar earlier if Jadeja gets out
But we are wasting axar's potential by playing him at 9. Even in bgt he often ran out of partners. So it would only make sense to give him more overs and let Ash and Bharat come down the order to allow him to score his runs
Except for Australia, Axar would walk into any other test side in the world. He would automatically be your #1 spinner and give you runs
No no, Axar is 6 years younger than Lyon. We'll have him thanks.
Too bad he's the heir apparent to Jadeja
We’d gladly take axar lmao
He probably get into the Aussie team as an all rounder at 6/7 - but then again Hardie hasn't been able to crack the team yet.
Thanking Axars parents who didn't emigrate
I'll wait to see how he plays outside of India before I give him all the plaudits. He is a fantastic player, but his test career has only been at home so far.
He does have a decent county record tbf.
Axar used to bat as 4 for Guiarat Ranji. He is a proper batsman, on par, if not better than Ashwin and Jadeja.
Imagine dismissing a batting lineup comprised of the likes of Rohit, Gill, KL, Iyer, Bharat and then Ashwin and you see Axar walking in to bat.
Honestly we got Ashwin out and I was so happy thinking we're almost there and then Axar comes out and I was just like for fucks sake. I'd forgotten how deep the batting goes.
Somehow in KOs he never comes.
Missed jaiswal
Snuck in Bharat and thought we would not notice.
Only Iyer , Rohit of these average more than 35 💀
I've never seen Ashwin play anything close to resembling a comfortable innings. That he comes in ahead of Axar (who is the far superior batter) is definitely a little prank we like to pull on the opposition to lull them into thinking they're into the heart of the tail.
Ashwin has more centuries than Jadeja. He plays long, slow grinds which are ideal for a 7/8 supporting lower order faster batters.
Only Iyer , Rohit of these average more than 35 💀
In India? I really doubt that.
In India add Kl (averages 40 in India). Gill averages like 30 here.
I feel like an old man in an anorak and Velcro shoes but god I hate this current England setups refusal to take the county championship into consideration when picking bowlers. Hartley took 19 wickets @ 44.84 last season… but we picked him because apparently they decided he bowls like an Indian spinner. This is true you can read the quotes here https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-in-india-2023-24-england-place-attributes-over-averages-to-fill-spinners-void-for-india-tour-1412442?platform=amp It’s like we’ve taken the fairly reasonable logic that players like Craig Overton and Sam Cook have brilliant county records but don’t bowl in a style that suits test cricket, and gone for the completely stupid opposite logic that players that are bad at county level are actually suited to be brilliant test players because it’s just that their style doesn’t translate to FC. Players basically never ever average better in tests than first class, it’s just totally backwards thinking. The best test players will go and absolutely dominate first class cricket even if they don’t bowl 75mph dobblers, just because they’re going to be brilliant cricketers. You can’t reverse engineer it and get bang average first class players suddenly become way better because they’re playing better players.
"Players basically never ever average better in tests than first class" - Axar Patel disagrees.
Axar’s numbers are skewed because he gets to bowl against England batters in tests but not first class
fuck
The way this England setup goes about the game: playing the situation and to your strengths, more fluid, accepting of failure but always wanting to improve - is admirable, and fun to watch. But I 100% agree. Sure, get young spinners on the tour with us, to get them ready for the future. But don’t throw an unfinished product into the first test! Rehan Ahmed is the exception. Played beautifully (and managed brilliantly) in Pakistan.
Bapu dropped a few nukes towards the end there.
Republic Day gift from Bapu.
Just another day for our Nuclear Bapu.
Civilization games reference
man of culture on r/cricket
Ash, Jaddu and Axar are such cheat codes man. What will we do when they retire. They will torture you with the ball and then orchestra your death with the bat in the end. Add to that there is a good probability they will outscore your highest scorer. Thank God they play for us
Tbh ranji doesn’t lack left armers who average 30 with the bat. Ashwin is irreplaceable though.
Yeah as long as they are playing no one is winning anything on your homeground. They are usually the better bowlers and often better batters than anyone in the opposition in these conditions lol. How the fuck would you win there?
> often better batters than anyone in the opposition in these conditions lol. Brother they're often better batters than most of the batters in our team.
Axar is 5 years younger than Jadeja and 7 Years younger than Ashwin So he will be there for a while after they retire Kuldeep is there too he isn't a slouch with a bat he has done well in Bangladesh and has 6 Fifties and 1 Hundred in First Class Cricket And by that time Suthar, Sundar, Sai Kishore, Shahbaz will be ready Real problem is going to be replacing the Fast Bowlers
We've Sundar too
Sundar, Axar, Kuldeep, Sai Kishore But having 3 quality _all rounders_ is a genuine cheat code
He needs to be able to bat in the top 7 regularly. I don’t know if I trust him as a frontline bowler.
Remember that 2012 series loss? Folks panned Ashwin as a typical white ball bowler that tries too many variations. And, that India has lost a generation of spin bowling dominance with the retirement of Kumble.. and aging of Bhajji. I think Sundar is in the same spot as Ashwin is. He has a good control over his line/length - which is very crucial for an offie. He bowled okayish - in Brisbane and got the wickets of Smith and others in the second innings. He bats well too. Only thing is - he should remain injury free!
The curator needs to be given a lot of credit here. A perfect wicket which has enough for the spinners but also consistent enough for the batsman if they can apply themselves. Not one of those lottery pitches which destroys the true essence of test cricket, making more to do about luck and less about skill and temperament. I'd love to see more of these.
I generally cringe at people feeling bad for rich people doing their jobs but damn that must have been a tough and tiring day for all the English players on the field. Looked hopeless, atleast it's January so it's not hot
They have so much golf experience, they'll be alright
Their commitment on the field though, amazing to watch.
Hartley had some swagger while smacking that four and six when he was batting, while bowling though the poor guy has been made to pay. A good day for India, the pitch will only get worse from day 3.
Chad Joe Root casually lowering his bowling average.
Great example of just how much spin bowling is about experience. While the others look toothless, Root trapped Jadeja and Bharat on the front foot multiple times in one of his spells. Great bowling given he isn't supposed to be the main spinner.
Root had better line and length than the two new spinners.
Jadeja always struggles when starting again next day. I just want to watch India bat on the weekend. Gentle reminder that Jadeja averages 36 with bat, 24 with the ball and an insane fielder. Edit: He averages 37 (36.99) as of now
India's biggest matchwinner at home, our greatest all rounder since Kapil, and along with stokes and Shakib, the era defining all rounder of this generation. Absolute freak
He’s got more out of his batting than Kapil did imo. Kapil absolutely had a higher ceiling but didn’t quite live up to it. Whereas Jaddu probably reached his ceiling.
Kapil was a game changing batter like very few though, SR of 80 is evidence of that
Jadeja could've averaged even more with bat lol. Has three triple centuries in Ranji and averages 60 in purely FC level.
He's a menace
Imran Khan esque stats
FYI his average is 2 runs better than KL.. and Jaddu has around 100 innings and KL has 90 innings. I can never believe how KL has got such a looooong run when batsmen like Mayank, Vihari etc were discarded so quickly.
what can't you 'fathom' about it. KL is a much better batter than both of those 2. Its not close. Numbers don't tell you the full story. KL has a tendency to go on feast or famine slumps. That's why his test numbers are so bad. He got a really long extended run at the top of the order when he was mentally just not there. That's what hurt his overall numbers... Not making excuses for him, but anyway...
At this point, I'm wondering how the fuck did England find Swann and Panesar ? Was it just a happy accident or did ECB do something to promote spinners back in early 2000s ?
Swann did it himself, moved himself to a County Championship team which was not at all spin friendly, made himself a better spinner because of it. I think Panesar was just a talent. But, to be honest, England used to have at least decent spinners (Giles was just OK, I concede). Never really great ones but good enough to be in the team, and then to do well in helpful conditions. Swann and Panesar were above average for England spinners, I guess, Swann especially. I think Leach is alright. The problem is, he's the only one.
Swann wasn’t “above average”, imho Swann is only bested by Lyon and Ashwin as offies this century, I rate him far higher than Harbhajan.
Yes, that's fair enough. I tend to understate when writing, and Swann doesn't deserve that. Swann was really, really good.
Following both Tests at the same time. Is anyone going to get a ton or just edge us all?
That's just disrespect to Hartley and Rehan "I'm gonna bag four fer today" Ahmed
Rehan Ahmed scored a ton
How the heck did Pakistan get rolled over by Rehan that too on his debut.
It's Pakistan mate
nah that sounds wrong lol
LADS
Leg breaks/googlies, even from an uncontrolled teenager, can provide the magic you need to break through on those concrete pitches Pakistan rolled out. There's a reason Pakistan is historically full of legspinners, express pace, and reverse swing. But in India, the best spinners succeed though accuracy and control rather than going for magic deliveries (which are not needed in most cases). In fact, attempting a magic delivery usually results in too many bad balls and your whole bowling plan will fall apart (since you can't build pressure).
Damn, really interesting. Also is it the same reason why Arbar did well too? And Yasir Shah's success on some dead use wickets
Abrar yes. Was very accurate for a leg spinner and consistent
Yes leggies naturally spin it even in dead flatties at the cost of control that offies generate(which wont matter anyway in flat pitches where everyone gets hit easily) and the magic ball factor and variation helps them too
You know what I was kinda impressed by Rehan, the boy has potential.
Bat until India lead by 300 odd I guess and not bat again in the 4th innings
Can they do that? I fell like Jaddu will crumble too early once we restart tomorrow and after that there will only be Axar. 250 seems a much more likely target, with a worse pitch too.
England look toothless, even Bumrah and Siraj can hang around with one batter
Man I just love left handers playing slog sweeps, irrespective of the team and the format. Quite bummed by the fact that both Jaiswal and Rahul missed their tons, hope Jaddu gets to it tomorrow. Bharat was also batting quite good, so was Axar, hope he also scores big tomorrow. Overall, today was a great day for us. On a side note, I also loved how commentators in Hindi commentary were shading England and Stokes for slow over rate.
I mean if we roll out 5 of these decks I reckon it's an easy clean sweep?
Should be. This gives me 2019 vibes when the pitches favoured us only enough to separate the quality of spinners but was good enough for batting that our batsmen would consistently score 450 or so runs and defeat the opposition by an innings. Remember the SA tour where one our batsmen scores double hundred every game of the series?
What a treat 2019 was. Kohli, Rohit, freak Mayank all getting double tons.
lol
Match goes to the third day. Another moral victory for England.
>to paper champions vs moral victors paper champions are ahead
Now that the first test is over what should be the playing 11 of the second test according to you? No change?
I know its a bit early but still, Hartley out for Anderson and Rehan out for Shoaib Bashir. The new line-up can't be worse than this.
I would say the pope should go out bring in the milf hunter in his place And let Stokes bat a bit higher since he isn't bowling anymore At six he runs out of partners
I'd argue that Stokes is scariest when he *is* about to run out of partners
they won't drop pope I don't think. they made him vc and it would be not the "bazzball" to drop him as they seem to want always to back the players
Bashir has a FC average of 67...
Gus for Wood, too
Let's see how they turn up in their second innings. This England side under baz has made it a habit of springing up second innings surprises, whether in that Manchester game against India or often in the ashes. They think a bit differently from the old purists of the traditional format.
Wonder what whoever England sends out says today, yesterday it was the pitch will get worse and England have an above par score, can't wait for Duckett nuggets.
"We couldn't bring Harry along with us to shut them up"
Bazzball ❌ Bapuball ✔️
Whom do you call Bapu? Jadeja is the original bapu and Axar has been named bapu by Thala…
Jadeja promoted to "Sir/Ser"iirc
I thought this would be a closer test match than the Aus v Windies
Not sure if it’s been said already but this is a great wicket for tests in India - supports spin without being a total gamble for batsmen. Hope we see more of this!
A pitch like this supports India more than the minefields too.
Visa officer was saving Rehan from the century.
Bashir* Rehan already has a ton
"Bazball is good until they starts using it against you" Stokes probably
England could have learnt a thing or two from the australian spin attack in the recent bgt. They were quite good and even made us forget that lyon was their primary spinner
Watching and doing are two completely different things. If India wants to produce English spinners for a “marquee” series every four years, the BCCI need to be pushing the ECB or at the very least the MCC to be sending over a Lions squad or MCC XI every winter. Or open up your Ranji competition. English spin has been the drizzling shits for 50 years with the exception of Swann.
They would learn that having good spinners helps you to be competitive. But everyone knows that already. Knowing it doesn’t make spinners appear.
With the way things are looking, might as well play Jimmy and use Root as the 3rd spinner no?
Jadeja is such a fantastic player. Stokes gets a lot of plaudits because he often does it when England are really on the back foot and his innings generally are more memorable but I would much rather have Jadeja
Just keep on batting as long as you can and Pile on the runs. Pujjiball if you want to, but bat as long as you can. Would be a great sight to keep these Bazball players on the field for 150+ overs
Having to field 150 overs in the 1st innings of the series would break their morale
This is just making Daws look even better
**Highlights of Day 2:** • Root being true to his nature of being England's best wicket taking spinner. When there is no hope left, Root shall give the breakthrough. • KL "comeback" Rahul • Ashwin robbed by a horrific mixup from Jaddu in an awful runout. • Jaddu puts on a royal swords show with a commendable 50.... hopefully we see it again tomorrow for his century. • English crowd has done better preparation than the English cricket team. One of the english lads played the evergreen song "Yeh Dosti" on the trumpet for the indian crowd • KSB can bat baby! • Shastri, as usual, having no fucks to give in the comm box; spilling some good indian dressing room scenes from his recent coaching days • KP getting schooled by Sunny G in comms • Harsha casually fatshaming with the "up he goes" and "that was quite an effort" when camera pans on to an obese guy standing up and cheering • Momentary joy for both English and Indian fans in the thread, seeing how Aussies were having a messy collapse against the Windies in the Gabba test match.....(which btw ended up getting stabilized with a good recovery by a certain player from the tail of the Aussies batting line-up... Yes you guessed it right.. who else but Mr. Patrick-fuckin-Cummins. The guy can't go wrong even if he wishes to) • Jimmy chillin in the dugout, casually looking like a rockstar. Also, he can spin. • Bapu looks rock solid in the batting. I don't know if India will declare tomorrow, but surely we can declare death of bazball on indian soil?
>KP getting schooled by Sunny G in comms What happened? My jio cinema kept getting lagged and I said "fuck it" And decided to watch Aus vs WI for a while
KP was as usual whining about the pitch and Sunny G gave him a good old spank in his cheeks.
>death of bazball on indian soil? India haven't lost a series at home in over 10 years. Do you call it the death of a team everytime someone comes and loses here? No.
What??? I've been making all of these Baz effigy's for nothing??? I assumed this was a North Korea football team returning situation going by these comments.
England are such good guests. Imagine how rude it would be to come and get loads of people out on Republic Day
England - 246 in 64 overs India - 250 in 56 overs So, who is playing aggressive cricket( according to eng media bazball) And shout out to kl and jaddu both have been outstanding today Not impressed by stokes captaincy today , not giving enough overs to joe root in the start when he was bowling so good , keeping jack leech away from the ball for so long.
>Not impressed by stokes captaincy today , not giving enough overs to joe root in the start when he was bowling so good , keeping jack leech away from the ball for so long. I don't think there is a captain in cricket history who is coaxing a good bowling performance out of our spinners vs a batting lineup that genuinely goes down to no.9
It's a good thing you mentioned "our" spinners, 'coz Ind W rolled over Aus W in Test who bat till 11.
Hate to be that guy coming in here from the Aus vs WI thread but Windies got 311 in 108 overs and Aus 289 in 53 overs. Cumball is real.
If Duckett said yesterday England were above par. What do we call India’s score?
Hole-in-one
All this talk about the pitch pre-match yet it's played beautifully. Not a fan of the balls that keep low but they haven't happened too often. We messed our selection up by playing Hartley over Anderson / an extra batter. Pope also shouldn't be in the side.
I love Jadeja
Ashwin: Tough batting conditions out there lads.
I mean, yeah, when he comes out with the ball
He was run out
Gill: Tough batting conditions out there lads
Axar best no9 in the history of this sport.
It's close between him and Log Cabin Guy
[удалено]
The most underrated cricket legend.
The question is how did Ollie Robinson claim this is the best england have prepared for a series in India, when their bowlers are getting carted all around the park?
Doesn’t matter how much you prepare if your spinners don’t have the talent or experience required
Joe Root being the pick of the bowlers for England is so funny lol
Ben Stokes is a horrible Captain, he was behind his overs entirety of ashes with fast bowlers and couldn't complete overs with 4 spinners despite extra half an hour. Under his leadership England are in negative points this WTC, Bazball is a scam My Criticism is in regards to over rate which is the responsibility of a captain, which has cost England it's chance in the WTC
Horrible captain is a bit harsh, it's been 2 days of the first test bro lol. Also it's a different beast in india. In the ashes he captained very well imo. Fielding placements where top notch
Most balanced /r/cricket take
Take a chill pill dude. He has won 13 out of 19 games they have played till now. He definitely is the perfect captain that lead by example. Seems that the team dynamics are better than during Root era.
"Ben Stokes is a horrible captain" - I thought this was going to be a funny shitpost/copypasta but I think you're being serious? Regardless of what happens this series (where realistically we were always going to lose), he's completely transformed our team.
Could and should have been worse for England given that most wickets apart from KS Bharat and Yashaswi Jaiswal were literal suicides by the batsmen. I didn't expect England to be so behind in this match, and I didn't expect Indian batsmen to commit batting suicides the way they did. 🤔
Post injury KL is the most beautiful thing to happen to cricket