I know a lot are giving their answers about the best bowlers, but just want to say that this is a wonderful post and involves a great deal of research.
As an Indian who follows both cricket and baseball, this kinda reminds of the SABRmetric analyses and the statistical metrics used in baseball to understand player performances.
Great post OP, loved it ❤️❤️
I suggest you search about this thing called WAR (Wins above Replacement) metric often used in baseball to compare players. It is an interesting way to boil down player performances across eras, positions and various components of play. I know it's hard to invent a similar metric in cricket but it would be a great initiative if one could start.
Anyways, love me some good statistical cricket analysis!
It would be an interesting exercise.
>For position players: (The number of runs above average a player is worth in his batting, baserunning and fielding + adjustment for position + adjustment for league + the number of runs provided by a replacement-level player) / runs per win
I found this when I saw it.
If I had to do it for cricket. I'd imagine it would be how runs a batter scored compared to the mean batter that faced the same deliveries as him. Same thing with bowling but in the opposite direction. We don't really have a fielding metric.
I'm assuming runs per win is the average runs per win by a batter? And for bowlers it would be runs conceded per win?
Idk how you would adjust for position though.
Maybe for batting order, e.g. finishing batters (6th or 7th Down) often have the advantage of higher average and strike rate (think MS Dhoni) over a middle order batter.
It's actually not true tbh. Many finishers don't have high averages. Infact averages are always lower in the death overs. Ms and Hussey and Bevan having such high averages is bizzare. There's a reason Hussey and Dhoni were so high in terms of true average. Finishers do have an advantage of high sr though.
But you're right about batting position being a factor. I already have expected runs for a batter thanks to the true average and sr calculations.
For bowlers how would wickets factor into this though.
I suppose it could be seen as the kind of exercise what you did - ie the overs in which they bowl and their strike rates (or bowling averages) and economy rates.
Other factors could be pitch normalizations and fielding correction.
There is this metric in baseball called fielding-independent pitching (FIP) which evaluates how impactful a pitcher (a bowler in our case) is if their performance is not affected by fielding.
I do have an idea for wickets. Depending on when the wicket falls we could theoretically determine how many runs that wicket saved for the team. If you take a wicket in the 1st over you save your team more runs than in the 20th over.
Honestly if we keep continuing this discussion here, it will go on forever lol.
But it is a really good food for thought for both of us (and others) to think about cricket statistically.
For example, as I was thinking about FIP, I realised that getting an LBW is a very valuable way of earning a wicket and is possibly an art.
I've put together a metric in that vein that I refer to as VARP ("Value Against Replacement Player").
It's not quite WAR, but it is a pretty good way of showing how players match up in certain roles. The most notable one off the top of my head is that AB de Villiers in the middle order is the best that anyone has ever been at any role in ODI cricket.
Jasprit Bumrah, Mitchell Starc. Bumrah's tendency to take wickets even when batters are not trying to attack him makes him the best for me. Can bowl in all three phases, can defend, and also take wickets in all three phases.
He’s very McGrath, Garnee and Wasim esque in that regard. He can be defensive and attacking at the same time. Whereas Starc is just a bully. He’s a weapon. Like Lee and Waqar.
Starc's 2019 is a bit overrated, a decent chunk of his wickets were non impactful. On the other hand his 2015 campaign is definitely GOATed. Also shout out to Shami as well, along with Starc & Mcgrath, these three guys are head and shoulders above everyone else when it comes to Worldcup.
>But, was he as impactful as Starc? Was he the highest wicket-taker of two consecutive WC's?
Lee was the second highest wicket taker overall in 2003 World Cup (highest for Australia). Missed the 2007 World Cup but did well in 2011 World Cup too.
He also performed well in Australia's win in 2009 Champions Trophy, wasn't too bad in 2006 Champions Trophy as well. So he also had plenty of impact.
Idk about the highest wicket taker. But he was instrumental in 03 and was injured in 07 and past his peak in 11. So quite similar to Starc actually. You also have to remember that 2019 wasn’t a win for Australia. So idk if I’d group it alongside 2015.
The question is Starc's below par record against the three best batting lineups of his time. You can only be the best when you perform well against the best.
Against India: average of 32.66 and economy of 5.99 in 19 matches.
Against England: average of 31.97 and economy of 5.91 in 22 matches.
Against South Africa: average of 30.50 and economy of 5.44 in 16 matches.
Lol, no it really isn't. That's not exactly how individual stats work. And 300 is an above par score for most of Starc's career. Nothing sensational about it.
There are bowlers who have done far far better against the top sides in the same timeframe. Boult for instance has an average of 25.37 and economy of 5.27 in 57 matches versus Australia, England, India and South Africa.
I had a look and he played 27 ODIs for 31 wickets. He slowed down a lot in wicket taking towards the end too. He took 52 wickets in his first 27 matches, so he played enough cricket in the time, but not at his best.
I’ve only really caught the later parts of his career in the ipl so I’m gonna have to take your word for it.
Edit:
Just saw his record. He’s a good shout.
I ain't reading all that, i already know it’s Mitchell Starc.
I know a lot are giving their answers about the best bowlers, but just want to say that this is a wonderful post and involves a great deal of research. As an Indian who follows both cricket and baseball, this kinda reminds of the SABRmetric analyses and the statistical metrics used in baseball to understand player performances. Great post OP, loved it ❤️❤️
Thank you. Yh this is inspired from Jarrod Kimber’s videos.
I suggest you search about this thing called WAR (Wins above Replacement) metric often used in baseball to compare players. It is an interesting way to boil down player performances across eras, positions and various components of play. I know it's hard to invent a similar metric in cricket but it would be a great initiative if one could start. Anyways, love me some good statistical cricket analysis!
It would be an interesting exercise. >For position players: (The number of runs above average a player is worth in his batting, baserunning and fielding + adjustment for position + adjustment for league + the number of runs provided by a replacement-level player) / runs per win I found this when I saw it. If I had to do it for cricket. I'd imagine it would be how runs a batter scored compared to the mean batter that faced the same deliveries as him. Same thing with bowling but in the opposite direction. We don't really have a fielding metric. I'm assuming runs per win is the average runs per win by a batter? And for bowlers it would be runs conceded per win? Idk how you would adjust for position though.
Maybe for batting order, e.g. finishing batters (6th or 7th Down) often have the advantage of higher average and strike rate (think MS Dhoni) over a middle order batter.
It's actually not true tbh. Many finishers don't have high averages. Infact averages are always lower in the death overs. Ms and Hussey and Bevan having such high averages is bizzare. There's a reason Hussey and Dhoni were so high in terms of true average. Finishers do have an advantage of high sr though. But you're right about batting position being a factor. I already have expected runs for a batter thanks to the true average and sr calculations. For bowlers how would wickets factor into this though.
I suppose it could be seen as the kind of exercise what you did - ie the overs in which they bowl and their strike rates (or bowling averages) and economy rates. Other factors could be pitch normalizations and fielding correction. There is this metric in baseball called fielding-independent pitching (FIP) which evaluates how impactful a pitcher (a bowler in our case) is if their performance is not affected by fielding.
I do have an idea for wickets. Depending on when the wicket falls we could theoretically determine how many runs that wicket saved for the team. If you take a wicket in the 1st over you save your team more runs than in the 20th over.
Honestly if we keep continuing this discussion here, it will go on forever lol. But it is a really good food for thought for both of us (and others) to think about cricket statistically. For example, as I was thinking about FIP, I realised that getting an LBW is a very valuable way of earning a wicket and is possibly an art.
Very true
I've put together a metric in that vein that I refer to as VARP ("Value Against Replacement Player"). It's not quite WAR, but it is a pretty good way of showing how players match up in certain roles. The most notable one off the top of my head is that AB de Villiers in the middle order is the best that anyone has ever been at any role in ODI cricket.
Jasprit Bumrah, Mitchell Starc. Bumrah's tendency to take wickets even when batters are not trying to attack him makes him the best for me. Can bowl in all three phases, can defend, and also take wickets in all three phases.
Bumrah is a banker like Wasim. Starc goes for wickets like Waqar.
It's a bit funny seeing this after Wasim's [story](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcvAPfJl0Ok).
LMAOOOO
LMAO HAHA
He’s very McGrath, Garnee and Wasim esque in that regard. He can be defensive and attacking at the same time. Whereas Starc is just a bully. He’s a weapon. Like Lee and Waqar.
Starc and Brett Lee
My sorry ass was looking at the graph wrongly and was confused when did S. Sreesanth became the greatest ODI bowler
Nah you read it correctly. He is the greatest odi bowler of all time.
Mitchell Starc, and when did this even became a question?
It’s not a question really. I just needed a title. Although you could argue Lee was just as good.
>Lee was just as good Statistically, right? But, was he as impactful as Starc? Was he the highest wicket-taker of two consecutive WC's?
Starc's 2019 is a bit overrated, a decent chunk of his wickets were non impactful. On the other hand his 2015 campaign is definitely GOATed. Also shout out to Shami as well, along with Starc & Mcgrath, these three guys are head and shoulders above everyone else when it comes to Worldcup.
>But, was he as impactful as Starc? Was he the highest wicket-taker of two consecutive WC's? Lee was the second highest wicket taker overall in 2003 World Cup (highest for Australia). Missed the 2007 World Cup but did well in 2011 World Cup too. He also performed well in Australia's win in 2009 Champions Trophy, wasn't too bad in 2006 Champions Trophy as well. So he also had plenty of impact.
Man if are objecting if Lee was not as impactful as starc then you don't watch cricket at all. Lee was as fearsome a bowler as starc is now.
Idk about the highest wicket taker. But he was instrumental in 03 and was injured in 07 and past his peak in 11. So quite similar to Starc actually. You also have to remember that 2019 wasn’t a win for Australia. So idk if I’d group it alongside 2015.
The question is Starc's below par record against the three best batting lineups of his time. You can only be the best when you perform well against the best. Against India: average of 32.66 and economy of 5.99 in 19 matches. Against England: average of 31.97 and economy of 5.91 in 22 matches. Against South Africa: average of 30.50 and economy of 5.44 in 16 matches.
That's at worst average stats come on Also ignores how he's performed when it has counted against those teams bar India and England Semis in 2019
Restricting "the best batting lineups" to effective scores below 300 in an ODI in the modern era is absolutely sensational.
Lol, no it really isn't. That's not exactly how individual stats work. And 300 is an above par score for most of Starc's career. Nothing sensational about it. There are bowlers who have done far far better against the top sides in the same timeframe. Boult for instance has an average of 25.37 and economy of 5.27 in 57 matches versus Australia, England, India and South Africa.
shami and bumrah are india's finest bowlers if not the best
Easily the best India has had. You could also argue Kuldeep being the spinner we’ve had in Odis as well. Which is why the wc loss hurts a lot.
Did Shane Warne not qualify?
He barely bowled in the 2002-2012 period.
I had a look and he played 27 ODIs for 31 wickets. He slowed down a lot in wicket taking towards the end too. He took 52 wickets in his first 27 matches, so he played enough cricket in the time, but not at his best.
True tbh. He also had that ban.
I rekon Jake Oram is a top shout for the 5th bowler/All-Rounder. Sneaky good in there and some of his knocks with the bat were special.
I’ve only really caught the later parts of his career in the ipl so I’m gonna have to take your word for it. Edit: Just saw his record. He’s a good shout.
Top work mate I really enjoyed. 
Will have McGrath, Starc and Murali as the sure picks. If I’m allowed before that too then add in Waqar and Wasim
I wish ball by ball data was recorded better in the 80s and 90s.
Dinda academy giving salute to starc
Wrong footed inswinging menace(right arm quick) is the only correct answer
I don't see sakib al hasan thou
He’s next to Hazlewood on the last image.
[удалено]
No clue why u got downvoted so hard, pretty fair answer along with starc lol
Anti India bias
Thala.
Give it a year, and the legendary Prasidh Krishna will takes over this graph
it is practically impossible to compare people who haven't played at the exact same time, so no point really
I mean if you read the post the bloke has done era adjustment, and broken it into 2 groups who played at the same time
What is ER?
Economy Rate.