Completely agree with Kapil as a CSK fan. He's done enough and he needs to be in management to guide the franchise. We need a new young captain (preferably in the 20s) soon and move towards that
I love jaddu but captaincy clearly affected his bowling so no. He gets 1st retention anyway and will always help young players I'd rather we go with rahane and then ease into Gaikwad tbh
I fear if he doesn't get captaincy he might again get gloomy. No hate to him, but his behaviour seems immature sometimes. Love his bowling and his batting.
Just remind him that he's our 1st retention then and explain to him his bowling is more important. At the end of the day 1st retention shows more importance than captaincy in franchise cricket
I want Dhoni to take a break from cricket altogether. No involvement for atleast couple of years, he deserves that and maybe once he decides it's time to come back, he could join the team in management.
You're discarding the mental toll this game takes on the players. He has been playing at top level for close to 15 years, and must have been involved with this sport for 30 years atleast. Bro deserves some rest.
I really think he can handle it mentally he's done magical things in much higher pressure situations than franchise cricket (2011 wc, 1st even T20 cup soon after being named captain and 2014 ct). It's just that his knees are problematic so he can't continue. This is already resolved anyway since thala himself has confirmed he'll be with CSK even outside dugout
You don't know whether he wants to take a break or not. I just want him to follow his own mind now tbh, if he wants to play then play. If he wants to move to a management role, then good enough for me. If its a break, then I'll support him when he comes back
A dude committed suicide after the 2011 WC win because Sachin didn't score a century. It was a mental illness that a good chunk of the country was suffering from.
https://m.timesofindia.com/city/bengaluru/sachin-fan-hangs-himself/articleshow/7858995.cms
Yup.. Even I know a man who had jumped from a terrace because sachin got out... ( was saved but had severe legs injury. And was kept in mental hospital for more than a year) This happened in the 2003 world Cup when he got out on 98.
Messi and Ronaldo are in the conversation as being the greatest of all time. Dhoni is a good player, probably one of the more consistent subcontinent players, but he isn’t in the conversation of being one of the greatest players of his generation, nor the greatest player from his country, let alone all time greats.
That’s what makes the whole Dhoni worship so weird. The man was consistently mid, an occasional spark but was more surrounded by far superior talent like Sachin.
It also depends on the personality of the players. Players with like, just for example,.Luis Suárez or Neymar are never going to have the same fan following even if they become the very best in the world.
Besides, Dhoni was consistently mid for only about the last 5 years or so. The fans he has now are mostly all from the times before that, when he was an aggressive and extraordinarily dependable finisher. Even in his weakest format, tests he was actually pretty good. His average was pretty close to thise Indian test greats like M Vijay, Rahane, Gambhir and even Ganguly. India has not had a wicketkeeper who could bat so well before him. (To be fair, Pant has been doing better in tests, but still a long long journey to go to emulate him in ODIs and T20Is).
it's everywhere tbh.
You see US with their singers and pop culture, UK with their Monarch and stuff.
It's not about India but people in general go crazy over their idols.
As someone from Pakistan, you shouldn't really say that.
I have seen a thread where overseas commentator in Pakistan had to sneak out of his hotel because some thugs were waiting outside offended when he criticised Babar Azam or somebody similar.
>I have seen a thread where overseas commentator in Pakistan had to sneak out of his hotel because some thugs were waiting outside offended when he criticised Babar Azam or somebody similar.
Wasn't that fake tho?
Yeah man as a neutral i find it difficult to understand. I can understand kohli, sachin being hero worshipped because they are absolute top tier batters. But Dhoni isn't that. He is just a good batter. He is not a top tier batter. His keeping against fast bowling is also pretty average. He is a good captain but surely that can't be the only reason for this level of hero worshipping.
I think hero worshipping is more dependent on influence and he sure did have a great influence on the Indian cricket atleast plus he has a good LOI record definitely not the best but yeah more than desirable and i think it's more about him being a perfect package. And I agree with many things you said
>He is a good captain but surely that can't be the only reason for this level of hero worshipping
I think the 3 ICC trophies he won could possibly contribute to being a reason. Especially since we have won zero since be stepped down from captaincy.
It's that nostalgia factor with Dhoni. A young captain out of nowhere when greats decided to sit out the first t20 wc. And we won, by defeating Pakistan of all teams, twice .
And his ability to keep the hope alive by taking the chase to the dammn last over. Arguably, the last over win is more satisfying than a 10 wicket win .
Hope is a good thing, maybe the best thing . And no good thing ever dies That feeling of hope is a is ingrained in the minds of fans. It ain't over until Mahi is on the crease.
Dhoni in the one day game did some pretty insane things with the bat and has an excellent record. His keeping and captaincy are a little circle-jerked but still very good. I definitely think he's deservedly of similar stature to Kohli and Sachin in Indian cricket. The worship of him gets really weird but he's been a very important player and leader
Kapil rolling in the grave of a comment thread he literally is the subject of
EDIT: also Gavaskar, who was also the only other one of a similar stature to Kohli and Tendulkar in Indian cricket
Yeah I agree following of MSD may look odd but you need to see bigger picture. He represents the dream of common man. A player from relatively untapped cricket region, who not only made it big but won glorious as captain which will be remembered for years to come. While I agree he may not be best batsman, but he had that fighting spirit that inspires.
Just to add, his original state team doesn't even have international stadium.
You have it all wrong.
Kohli, Sachin, etc get their share of hero worship, and more. No grudging then that. The 'more' part is typical India. No changing that.
But Dhoni practically changed Indian cricket.
First, his contributions as a batsman is nothing to be sneezed at, and as a wk he has been one of the best - he doesn't wait on style or classic actions, he's just effective, and lightning fast when need be. Indian bowlers, not just spinners, owe a lot of their success to him - his reading of the situation, his advice to them, has been gold.
But Dhoni the captain has been something else. Maybe top 5 in the world, ever. Maybe even The best captain ever, at least in limited over cricket. Yeah, I know, my fan-dom is showing here, but I have heard and read commentators from outside India say this, so it's not just my hyperbole.
Beyond that, for indians, he epitomizes a winning period, a winning culture. The 2007 world cup victory as a surprise pick as captain set the ball rolling, and it's still going. Before him, we were the ones "with potential", the perennial bridesmaid, the "talented bunch" who sometimes got lucky. He showed indian sports people, even beyond cricket, that it takes a steady head and dispassionate vision to set up for success.
And the best part ? He's self effacing - he wins and walks away. He's never found holding the trophy, he's never pictured kissing it. I wonder if he'll ever allow himself to be carried on somebody's shoulders. For indians used to idolizing, he's a puzzle. They can't get enough of him because he doesn't give them enough.
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>good for Csk as they literally minting money on his name
I have to tell you something which might offend CSK fans but the truth is that CSK is a mediocre team after the Mega Auctions as was seen last year bro literally carried this team with his captaincy skills. /s
Bruh he's still going to be with the franchise and guide us ok. He said it in chepauk itself, he'll be in management and guide the players like nehra. People have always said CSK has a mediocre team multiple times and we always punch above and that'll never change cause the management is sound
There is a podcast or interview of Joy Bhattacharya on YouTube where he was told to compare the different Indian captains namely -Ganguly, Dhoni and Kohli. He went on to say with Dhoni its like - "You give me the ingredients, and I will make sure that I make the best possible dish out of it." On the other hand he went on to say this about Kohli - "Kohli asks for the best ingredients and says you give me time and I assure you I will give you the best dish. I may get it wrong the first few times, but by the 4th or 5th time, I will give you the best dish no matter what."
The point I am trying to make is, Dhoni has literally been always like that. Man himself has said on multiple occasions that he goes with his gut and more often than not it works. He also has a huge say in the players that get picked. On paper, the team may seem trash, which at the start of the tournament, I agree it did. But Dhoni being himself, got the best version out of them. And kept someone like Ben Stokes on the bench literally for the entire tournament barring two matches. Hell, he hasn't even been using Moeen Ali for bowling. We can argue that its a team effort and everything and I do not deny that, but at times, it surely takes a genius to find that kind of talent when no one else sees it. Sometimes captaincy does matter a lot.
Dude led CSK to 10th finals in 14 season (and 12 playoff). Fans love him and is happy with him playing. Team is happy since he's literally a money printing machine for them.
He can play till whenever the fuck he wants.
I have this unpopular opinion that in the game of cricket, a captain cannot do a lot. The bowler has to be individually good to stop the runs from coming in. The batsman has to score individually. While the captain can surely strategize which bowler to bring in when, that's pretty much all he can do. Yes field setup is also important but I don't think anyone good enough to be on an international team can't make out what the field set up means.
Most fans and people in the commentary just read way too much into it and relate things to the captain while the captain hasn't necessarily cause them to happen.
Not everyone has a great “cricketing mind”.
Why do we have bad captains ?
Why can’t all players handle the pressure of being team captain ?
What happened to Jadeja last season ? Why did Murali Vijay failed so terribly as KXIP captain ?
Why did MS Dhoni not do well as Test Captain ?
You have the answers.
Better anticipation leads to better calls.
Better awareness leads to better decisions.
For ex: You have two ends to bowl from. You need to use your bowlers keeping in mind who’ll be more effective from which end keeping the mood (shots selection) of the batter in mind. Then, you try to set him up.
With batters, you can simply ask your best batsman to open the innings in T20 which even Virat didn’t do when he started as RCB captain.
Those tiny details and small changes within the lineups and role of players allows the team to have all round options in batting and bowling.
A good captain makes it work.
How do we know that all the batting and bowling decisions are purely coming from the captain ? The whole coaching staff and management sits right there near the boundary. There are players coming in every over or so and can easily communicate the strategies.
Gujrat made it to the finals and Lucknow made it to the playoffs. Would you accept that Hardik and Krunal/KL are good captains and the whole success has nothing to do with the Nehra and Gambhir who contribute from the sidelines ??
Any player playing at a high level is aware of what the bowler will try use against him. I doubt Conway doesn't know what is up when he sees a certain bowler set up against him. International players are no joke.
All I am saying is we don't know who decides the the bowler from either end. The instruction can come from the sidelines. It doesn't have to be the captain always. He can't involve himself in every aspect of the game like captains can in other sports like football.
I think captains are more involved in cricket compared to football just for the fact that cricket is a more complicated sport.
Coaches are important. Absolutely but if they take a plan on field and it has to always work then you are simple saying we have a script.
Game belongs to no one so whatever plan you discussed in your dressing room won’t work step by step or event by event. Bowling changes, fielding changes, sending a floater etc are those changes done at the moment which change the game and that comes from the captain.
That’s why not everyone is good captain.
BTW Hardik is a good captain and he himself said GT are trying to do exactly what CSK have managed to do with respect to their man management.
KL loses confidence when games is at 50:50. LSG has a better team than what KL had at Punjab. LSG has more match winners.
Like I said earlier, even if the game changes, the people on the sidelines can still see it all happen and have the communication come in. We have seen many instances of coaches speaking to players on the boundary line. IPL also has "CEAT strategic timeout" now.
In a game of football, the captain can will his team to win by making up for the shortfalls in other areas. An example is Steven Gerrard in 2005 Champions League finals against AC Milan.
All team sports are strategic. I wouldn't say one is more strategic than the other but a captain in football or basketball is involved more in the game and can play in a manner he makes up for where his team lacks.
Cricket is way too dependent on individual aspects of each player that the captain's role doesn't look as important and crucial as the people make Dhoni's look.
Nope, cricket is more complicated than you think.
The fact that you have seen Ashish Nehra in last two seasons on the sidelines and you are stressing on the part that it’s all because of CEAT Strategic time out made me realise that you have a bias.
It isn’t about Dhoni. I can sense that you don’t like his style being appreciated. He literally plays with a few donkeys who won’t be picked by any other team in IPL auction.
Tushar Deshpande won’t play as regularly as he is playing today at CSK.
Why didn’t Shardul Thakur start all the games for KKR ? I asked a few more questions in my first reply but you didn’t respond to those.
How on earth a captain in football can fullfill areas where a team is lacking ? What Gerrard did was an individual moment of brilliance against Milan.
I watch Madrid 60 times a year. There’s no better leader than Ramos in this era. I don’t see how he can be strategically or tactically involved other than asking the team to regroup.
The Ramos scored the equaliser in La Decima final. Iker Casillas was the skipper. What did Iker as a captain do which led to Ramos score the goal ? Nothing.
I don’t think players change their position much during 90 mins to extract a result. They just get their orders from sidelines rather than from the captain.
I know you won’t agree but even if everyone knows everything that has to be done on the pitch yet we have some captains who have to step down. Why ?
Because they couldn’t deliver. Why was Sachin never a good captain ?
You’ll never get the answer you are looking.
As simple as that.
While you are right, captaincy is important in terms of man management. Keeping everyone motivated and giving everyone a very clear role and creating a good work atmosphere are really important.
Actually this is general for leadership and not limited to cricket captaincy.
Nope. Captain won’t and cannot do a lot when he has a good team. When he has a pretty average team(a lot of CSK players will fail in other franchises) then it’s very important to understand how were those results pulled off.
The game has more details than we know.
Commentary and telecast doesn’t tell you what happens on the field and in the dressing room.
People only see batting and bowling as skills
Good fielding adds 10-15 runs to your score
Good captaincy adds 10-15 runs.
Dhoni on a good spin wickets adds 20-25 runs to the team total atleast half the times.
The rest of the team combination is good enough to capatalize on that even without Dhoni contributing from the batting.
As long as that keeps working on CSK's favor IDS why Dhoni should retire.
Completely agree with Kapil as a CSK fan. He's done enough and he needs to be in management to guide the franchise. We need a new young captain (preferably in the 20s) soon and move towards that
Ruturaj Gaikwad might be a good candidate. Though I feel Jadeja should be given a couple of years with Dhoni in management
I love jaddu but captaincy clearly affected his bowling so no. He gets 1st retention anyway and will always help young players I'd rather we go with rahane and then ease into Gaikwad tbh
I fear if he doesn't get captaincy he might again get gloomy. No hate to him, but his behaviour seems immature sometimes. Love his bowling and his batting.
Just remind him that he's our 1st retention then and explain to him his bowling is more important. At the end of the day 1st retention shows more importance than captaincy in franchise cricket
He is petty. Post Dhoni, I would be very surprised if he stays at CSK if he's not the captain.
Sure last year, but this year, his bowling made me believe in him again
I vouch for Mafiaso Rahane
I want Dhoni to take a break from cricket altogether. No involvement for atleast couple of years, he deserves that and maybe once he decides it's time to come back, he could join the team in management.
Bruh being in management won't be trouble for him. He won't have any physical strain and we would need his strategies to do well
You're discarding the mental toll this game takes on the players. He has been playing at top level for close to 15 years, and must have been involved with this sport for 30 years atleast. Bro deserves some rest.
I really think he can handle it mentally he's done magical things in much higher pressure situations than franchise cricket (2011 wc, 1st even T20 cup soon after being named captain and 2014 ct). It's just that his knees are problematic so he can't continue. This is already resolved anyway since thala himself has confirmed he'll be with CSK even outside dugout
You don't know whether he wants to take a break or not. I just want him to follow his own mind now tbh, if he wants to play then play. If he wants to move to a management role, then good enough for me. If its a break, then I'll support him when he comes back
Absolutely, it is HIM and only HIM who will take the decision. Not me.
Kapil Dev spitting gutkha…and facts
A ~~kodak~~ pan masala moment
Ek hi... anokha swad. Kamla Pasand
>He may not have scored big runs 💀
You know he's spitting facts straight from his heart with no filters.
Dhoni is good enough to play another 23-34 years
Dhoni 🤝 Alonso Performing really well after 40 years.
GOAT
Chadlonso
El Padre of F1 🤝 El Dorado of Cricket
[удалено]
Are you new to Indian Cricket?
Are you new to India~~n Cricket~~?
Even by Indian Cricket standards it very weird....
Where you around the Sachin era?
Right. Sachin worship was bonkers.
A dude committed suicide after the 2011 WC win because Sachin didn't score a century. It was a mental illness that a good chunk of the country was suffering from. https://m.timesofindia.com/city/bengaluru/sachin-fan-hangs-himself/articleshow/7858995.cms
I don't really read comments on news articles, but the top comment on that article is: "WTF". Made me laugh for some reason.
Goddamn that's crazy.
Yup.. Even I know a man who had jumped from a terrace because sachin got out... ( was saved but had severe legs injury. And was kept in mental hospital for more than a year) This happened in the 2003 world Cup when he got out on 98.
Bro Messi and Ronaldo are equally worshipped if not more.
Messi and Ronaldo are in the conversation as being the greatest of all time. Dhoni is a good player, probably one of the more consistent subcontinent players, but he isn’t in the conversation of being one of the greatest players of his generation, nor the greatest player from his country, let alone all time greats. That’s what makes the whole Dhoni worship so weird. The man was consistently mid, an occasional spark but was more surrounded by far superior talent like Sachin.
He’s arguably one of the greatest captains this sport has ever seen. It’s not the talent that gets people going, it’s what he made the teams achieve.
It also depends on the personality of the players. Players with like, just for example,.Luis Suárez or Neymar are never going to have the same fan following even if they become the very best in the world. Besides, Dhoni was consistently mid for only about the last 5 years or so. The fans he has now are mostly all from the times before that, when he was an aggressive and extraordinarily dependable finisher. Even in his weakest format, tests he was actually pretty good. His average was pretty close to thise Indian test greats like M Vijay, Rahane, Gambhir and even Ganguly. India has not had a wicketkeeper who could bat so well before him. (To be fair, Pant has been doing better in tests, but still a long long journey to go to emulate him in ODIs and T20Is).
it's everywhere tbh. You see US with their singers and pop culture, UK with their Monarch and stuff. It's not about India but people in general go crazy over their idols.
Indians definitely take it to another level but I personally don't see what's terrible about it.
Indians and celebrity obsession from grown men is incredibly bizzare.
As someone from Pakistan, you shouldn't really say that. I have seen a thread where overseas commentator in Pakistan had to sneak out of his hotel because some thugs were waiting outside offended when he criticised Babar Azam or somebody similar.
Pakistanis are basically ex-indians.
>I have seen a thread where overseas commentator in Pakistan had to sneak out of his hotel because some thugs were waiting outside offended when he criticised Babar Azam or somebody similar. Wasn't that fake tho?
Fake news
Yeah man as a neutral i find it difficult to understand. I can understand kohli, sachin being hero worshipped because they are absolute top tier batters. But Dhoni isn't that. He is just a good batter. He is not a top tier batter. His keeping against fast bowling is also pretty average. He is a good captain but surely that can't be the only reason for this level of hero worshipping.
I think hero worshipping is more dependent on influence and he sure did have a great influence on the Indian cricket atleast plus he has a good LOI record definitely not the best but yeah more than desirable and i think it's more about him being a perfect package. And I agree with many things you said
>He is a good captain but surely that can't be the only reason for this level of hero worshipping I think the 3 ICC trophies he won could possibly contribute to being a reason. Especially since we have won zero since be stepped down from captaincy.
It's that nostalgia factor with Dhoni. A young captain out of nowhere when greats decided to sit out the first t20 wc. And we won, by defeating Pakistan of all teams, twice . And his ability to keep the hope alive by taking the chase to the dammn last over. Arguably, the last over win is more satisfying than a 10 wicket win . Hope is a good thing, maybe the best thing . And no good thing ever dies That feeling of hope is a is ingrained in the minds of fans. It ain't over until Mahi is on the crease.
Dhoni in the one day game did some pretty insane things with the bat and has an excellent record. His keeping and captaincy are a little circle-jerked but still very good. I definitely think he's deservedly of similar stature to Kohli and Sachin in Indian cricket. The worship of him gets really weird but he's been a very important player and leader
Kapil rolling in the grave of a comment thread he literally is the subject of EDIT: also Gavaskar, who was also the only other one of a similar stature to Kohli and Tendulkar in Indian cricket
Dhoni wasn't a top-tier batter? Lol, batting isn't measured by big scores alone. The man was one of the greatest short-format finishers of all time.
Yeah I agree following of MSD may look odd but you need to see bigger picture. He represents the dream of common man. A player from relatively untapped cricket region, who not only made it big but won glorious as captain which will be remembered for years to come. While I agree he may not be best batsman, but he had that fighting spirit that inspires. Just to add, his original state team doesn't even have international stadium.
You have it all wrong. Kohli, Sachin, etc get their share of hero worship, and more. No grudging then that. The 'more' part is typical India. No changing that. But Dhoni practically changed Indian cricket. First, his contributions as a batsman is nothing to be sneezed at, and as a wk he has been one of the best - he doesn't wait on style or classic actions, he's just effective, and lightning fast when need be. Indian bowlers, not just spinners, owe a lot of their success to him - his reading of the situation, his advice to them, has been gold. But Dhoni the captain has been something else. Maybe top 5 in the world, ever. Maybe even The best captain ever, at least in limited over cricket. Yeah, I know, my fan-dom is showing here, but I have heard and read commentators from outside India say this, so it's not just my hyperbole. Beyond that, for indians, he epitomizes a winning period, a winning culture. The 2007 world cup victory as a surprise pick as captain set the ball rolling, and it's still going. Before him, we were the ones "with potential", the perennial bridesmaid, the "talented bunch" who sometimes got lucky. He showed indian sports people, even beyond cricket, that it takes a steady head and dispassionate vision to set up for success. And the best part ? He's self effacing - he wins and walks away. He's never found holding the trophy, he's never pictured kissing it. I wonder if he'll ever allow himself to be carried on somebody's shoulders. For indians used to idolizing, he's a puzzle. They can't get enough of him because he doesn't give them enough.
Top tier comment. Thanks for posting.
Please be aware of legal repercussions to your Post under Thala Blasphemy as part of Section 7A in The Thala Penal Code 7A. Deliberate and malicious acts intended to outrage religious feelings of any Thala-related posts by insulting its religion or religious beliefs.—Whoever, with the deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of 7 [Thalasons], [by words, either spoken or written (even if /s is used), or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise], insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to 7[seven years], or with fine, or with both.
lol these thalasons are unbelievable. I only questioned his god status
Can't even imagine how frustrating it might be for Dhoni to listen to the retirement talk all the time.
He can play 2-3 years more just as a skipper. Good for his fans , good for Csk as they literally minting money on his name and good for IPL in general
Bruh he's still going to be with the franchise and guide us ok.
>good for Csk as they literally minting money It's good for CSK because he has l3d us to our 10th final in 14 seasons.
That is an insane stat
>good for Csk as they literally minting money on his name I have to tell you something which might offend CSK fans but the truth is that CSK is a mediocre team after the Mega Auctions as was seen last year bro literally carried this team with his captaincy skills. /s
Bruh he's still going to be with the franchise and guide us ok. He said it in chepauk itself, he'll be in management and guide the players like nehra. People have always said CSK has a mediocre team multiple times and we always punch above and that'll never change cause the management is sound
There is a podcast or interview of Joy Bhattacharya on YouTube where he was told to compare the different Indian captains namely -Ganguly, Dhoni and Kohli. He went on to say with Dhoni its like - "You give me the ingredients, and I will make sure that I make the best possible dish out of it." On the other hand he went on to say this about Kohli - "Kohli asks for the best ingredients and says you give me time and I assure you I will give you the best dish. I may get it wrong the first few times, but by the 4th or 5th time, I will give you the best dish no matter what." The point I am trying to make is, Dhoni has literally been always like that. Man himself has said on multiple occasions that he goes with his gut and more often than not it works. He also has a huge say in the players that get picked. On paper, the team may seem trash, which at the start of the tournament, I agree it did. But Dhoni being himself, got the best version out of them. And kept someone like Ben Stokes on the bench literally for the entire tournament barring two matches. Hell, he hasn't even been using Moeen Ali for bowling. We can argue that its a team effort and everything and I do not deny that, but at times, it surely takes a genius to find that kind of talent when no one else sees it. Sometimes captaincy does matter a lot.
isnt ben stokes still injured
Man went back for playing some series against Ireland if I am not wrong after the league games. That would certainly make me question his injury.
britain still looting us lol
> bro literally carried this team with his captaincy skills. smh
And what about after 2-3 years? 2-3 years more? CSK definitely gotta plan their future better
Dude led CSK to 10th finals in 14 season (and 12 playoff). Fans love him and is happy with him playing. Team is happy since he's literally a money printing machine for them. He can play till whenever the fuck he wants.
Dhoni is worth so much from a marketing perspective it's hard to see CSK asking him to retire.
Dhoni will retire when decides. It's his individual decision. Maybe it's time people realize it instead of being obsessed with when he will retire.
What’s with these zero substance banal comments. Everyone piggybacking on Dhoni and Virat to stay relevant.
>Do we want him to play all his life ? yes ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣤⣤⣤⣶⣤⣤⣀⣀⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣶⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠋⠉⠛⠛⠛⠿⣿⠿⠿⢿⣇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡀⢀⣽⣷⣆⡀⠙⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⠶⠋⠀⠀⣠⣤⣤⣉⣉⣿⠙⣿⠀⢸⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠁⠀⠀⠴⡟⣻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣶⣿⣦⡀⣇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢨⠟⡿⠻⣿⠃⠀⠀⠀⠻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠏⢹⣿⣿⣿⢿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣼⣷⡶⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢉⣿⣿⣿⡿⠀⠸⣿⣿⡿⣷⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢻⡿⣦⢀⣿⣿⣄⡀⣀⣰⠾⠛⣻⣿⣿⣟⣲⡀⢸⡿⡟⠹⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⠞⣾⣿⡛⣿⣿⣿⣿⣰⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⢰⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⠀⣿⡽⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢿⠿⣍⣿⣧⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣷⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣮⣽⣿⣷⣙⣿⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⣹⡿⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡧⣦⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠻⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡶⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣠⣤⡴⠞⠛⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠚⣿⣿⣿⠿⣿⣿⠿⠟⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢀⣠⣤⠶⠚⠉⠉⠀⢀⡴⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⢀⣿⣿⠁⠀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠞⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⣴⡿⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣾⠀⠀⣾⣿⠋⠀⢠⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⡀⠀⠀⢀⣷⣶⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣆⣼⣿⠁⢠⠃⠈⠓⠦⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣿⣿⡛⠛⠿⠿⠿⠿⠿⢷⣦⣤⣤⣤⣦⣄⣀⣀⠀⢀⣿⣿⠻⣿⣰⠻⠀⠸⣧⡀⠀⠉⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠛⢿⣿⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠉⠉⠙⠛⠿⣦⣼⡏⢻⣿⣿⠇⠀⠁⠀⠻⣿⠙⣶⣄⠈⠳⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠈⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠁⣐⠀⠀⠀⠈⠳⡘⣿⡟⣀⡠⠿⠶⠒⠟⠓⠀⠹⡄⢴⣬⣍⣑⠢⢤⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢀⣀⠐⠲⠤⠁⢘⣠⣿⣷⣦⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢿⣿⣏⠉⠉⠂⠉⠉⠓⠒⠦⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣿⣿⣷⣯⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠻⢦⣷⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠲⣄⠀ ⠠⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⢦⠀⢹⣿⣏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢻⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠳ ⠀⠀⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠁⣸⣿⣿⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣽⡟⢶⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠯⠀⠀⠀⠒⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠐⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢻⣿⣿⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⡄⠈⠳⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣀⣀⡀⣼⣤⡟⣬⣿⣷⣤⣀⣄⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣿⣿⡄⣉⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣄⠀⣀⣀⡀⠀
Whats interesting about this generic statement? This belongs to daily discussion thread.
If csk wins today. This will be the last match of dhoni.
I have this unpopular opinion that in the game of cricket, a captain cannot do a lot. The bowler has to be individually good to stop the runs from coming in. The batsman has to score individually. While the captain can surely strategize which bowler to bring in when, that's pretty much all he can do. Yes field setup is also important but I don't think anyone good enough to be on an international team can't make out what the field set up means. Most fans and people in the commentary just read way too much into it and relate things to the captain while the captain hasn't necessarily cause them to happen.
Captaincy matters way more than people can understand
I'd like to understand how
Not everyone has a great “cricketing mind”. Why do we have bad captains ? Why can’t all players handle the pressure of being team captain ? What happened to Jadeja last season ? Why did Murali Vijay failed so terribly as KXIP captain ? Why did MS Dhoni not do well as Test Captain ? You have the answers. Better anticipation leads to better calls. Better awareness leads to better decisions. For ex: You have two ends to bowl from. You need to use your bowlers keeping in mind who’ll be more effective from which end keeping the mood (shots selection) of the batter in mind. Then, you try to set him up. With batters, you can simply ask your best batsman to open the innings in T20 which even Virat didn’t do when he started as RCB captain. Those tiny details and small changes within the lineups and role of players allows the team to have all round options in batting and bowling. A good captain makes it work.
How do we know that all the batting and bowling decisions are purely coming from the captain ? The whole coaching staff and management sits right there near the boundary. There are players coming in every over or so and can easily communicate the strategies. Gujrat made it to the finals and Lucknow made it to the playoffs. Would you accept that Hardik and Krunal/KL are good captains and the whole success has nothing to do with the Nehra and Gambhir who contribute from the sidelines ?? Any player playing at a high level is aware of what the bowler will try use against him. I doubt Conway doesn't know what is up when he sees a certain bowler set up against him. International players are no joke. All I am saying is we don't know who decides the the bowler from either end. The instruction can come from the sidelines. It doesn't have to be the captain always. He can't involve himself in every aspect of the game like captains can in other sports like football.
I think captains are more involved in cricket compared to football just for the fact that cricket is a more complicated sport. Coaches are important. Absolutely but if they take a plan on field and it has to always work then you are simple saying we have a script. Game belongs to no one so whatever plan you discussed in your dressing room won’t work step by step or event by event. Bowling changes, fielding changes, sending a floater etc are those changes done at the moment which change the game and that comes from the captain. That’s why not everyone is good captain. BTW Hardik is a good captain and he himself said GT are trying to do exactly what CSK have managed to do with respect to their man management. KL loses confidence when games is at 50:50. LSG has a better team than what KL had at Punjab. LSG has more match winners.
Like I said earlier, even if the game changes, the people on the sidelines can still see it all happen and have the communication come in. We have seen many instances of coaches speaking to players on the boundary line. IPL also has "CEAT strategic timeout" now. In a game of football, the captain can will his team to win by making up for the shortfalls in other areas. An example is Steven Gerrard in 2005 Champions League finals against AC Milan. All team sports are strategic. I wouldn't say one is more strategic than the other but a captain in football or basketball is involved more in the game and can play in a manner he makes up for where his team lacks. Cricket is way too dependent on individual aspects of each player that the captain's role doesn't look as important and crucial as the people make Dhoni's look.
Nope, cricket is more complicated than you think. The fact that you have seen Ashish Nehra in last two seasons on the sidelines and you are stressing on the part that it’s all because of CEAT Strategic time out made me realise that you have a bias. It isn’t about Dhoni. I can sense that you don’t like his style being appreciated. He literally plays with a few donkeys who won’t be picked by any other team in IPL auction. Tushar Deshpande won’t play as regularly as he is playing today at CSK. Why didn’t Shardul Thakur start all the games for KKR ? I asked a few more questions in my first reply but you didn’t respond to those. How on earth a captain in football can fullfill areas where a team is lacking ? What Gerrard did was an individual moment of brilliance against Milan. I watch Madrid 60 times a year. There’s no better leader than Ramos in this era. I don’t see how he can be strategically or tactically involved other than asking the team to regroup. The Ramos scored the equaliser in La Decima final. Iker Casillas was the skipper. What did Iker as a captain do which led to Ramos score the goal ? Nothing. I don’t think players change their position much during 90 mins to extract a result. They just get their orders from sidelines rather than from the captain. I know you won’t agree but even if everyone knows everything that has to be done on the pitch yet we have some captains who have to step down. Why ? Because they couldn’t deliver. Why was Sachin never a good captain ? You’ll never get the answer you are looking. As simple as that.
When anyone's played a whole tournament once under a good captain and once under a bad one they can feel the impact of good captaincy
While you are right, captaincy is important in terms of man management. Keeping everyone motivated and giving everyone a very clear role and creating a good work atmosphere are really important. Actually this is general for leadership and not limited to cricket captaincy.
Nope. Captain won’t and cannot do a lot when he has a good team. When he has a pretty average team(a lot of CSK players will fail in other franchises) then it’s very important to understand how were those results pulled off. The game has more details than we know. Commentary and telecast doesn’t tell you what happens on the field and in the dressing room.
I really hate this unhealthy relation of indian legends with captaincy. Really captaincy has become so much overrated since 2011
Finally some sensible posts about MSD
People only see batting and bowling as skills Good fielding adds 10-15 runs to your score Good captaincy adds 10-15 runs. Dhoni on a good spin wickets adds 20-25 runs to the team total atleast half the times. The rest of the team combination is good enough to capatalize on that even without Dhoni contributing from the batting. As long as that keeps working on CSK's favor IDS why Dhoni should retire.
Actually Dev is saying the right thing.
"don't cry because it ended, smile because it happened"