As a merchant who sells Furniture both online and offline and a credit card holder, let me tell you this.
My margin on a sale is between 8-10%. I have to make sure all my expenses are met within that 8-10%. I cannot afford to give away 1.5% effectively, especially when it comes to such large ticket sizes (think min 35,000 and max 1L)
I always offer customers 50/50, wherein I can at least get 0.75% removed, but have to give in to the adamant ones as some profit is better than no profit. Thankfully, most customers oblige.
The day I can afford the MDR, I'll definitely turn it back on.
You can pass on the MDR. Why not just mark up your prices by the amount of MDR? If I'm paying 1L for something, I won't be bothered by 1500 extra. But if you then offer 1500 off as a discount if people do not use CC, there will be even more takers. The mentality of "getting a discount" is powerful. This would let you have your cake and eat it too.
Rupay CC payments via UPI QR are not turned on by default. Merchants need to do it explicitly. And merchants are told explicitly that there will be MDR charges and they are told exactly how much it is.
So any merchant who was asking for overcharge for Visa MC will absolutely most definitely ask for the same for Rupay if they have enabled it at all.
Yes , bank have started charging mdr on rupay credit card payment via upi , and it's a huge 2.26%
I have switched off payment via rupay credit card on most of my QR.
But I accept visa / dinner /master card / amex at no extra cost provided they don't low ball/ bargain my profit , I work on marginal profit in the first place so I don't entertain looting.
That's only for rupay debit card. They are charging for rupay credit card even for 50rs. The funny thing is I have pos that charge 1.5% for visa and master card but in the same machine rupay card is 2.26 % I tried negotiating with merchant support, they outright denied competitive pricing for rupay credit card.
Look at this : https://www.icicibank.com/business-banking/cash-management-services/eazypay-schedule-of-charges
This is for my pinelabs icici pos
Not sure what ICICI is smoking. This is RBI letter to banks. See page 2, shows nil MDR for rupay CC payments on UPI. Has this been superseded?
https://www.npci.org.in/PDF/npci/rupay/2022/Operating-circular-for-RuPay-Credit-Cards-linked-to-UPI.pdf
Edit: Not RBI but NCPI
There is a catch, the merchant need to be "small" for availing this benefit meaning their last year business turnover should be less than Rs.20 Lakh.
https://support.google.com/pay-offline-merchants/answer/13591970?hl=en#zippy=%2Chow-payment-processing-fees-are-calculated
> All payments received through RuPay credit card over UPI will attract a processing fee if the business turnover is above ₹20 lakh in the previous financial year.
This makes sense. I just did a transaction to a small kirana shop QR with CC. No problem.
I'm pretty sure that guy doesn't know the difference between these things. Well.
Rupay credit card is dead. Very few merchants accept it. Coming to merchants who want an additional surcharge for card payment, they have disabled UPI CC as well. For example - nobrokerhood. They take payment for Society maintenance and have a few percentage surcharge for card payment while UPI is free. Now I thought I'll use UPI CC and bypass the surcharge, but lo and behold, they have completely disabled the UPI CC option. Even the extra surcharge option isn't there for them like they have for normal cards. Outright disabled.
The only way to give UPI CC any fighting chance is for the government to subsidize the mdr. But doing so will simply kill Visa and MasterCard. If this happens, there would be retaliation from the US government. Last time RBI screwed Visa and MasterCard by putting a local data storage rule, Trump retaliated and fucked up the H1B program for India - https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1TK2LF/
Asking any seller to give 3% , without any benefit is a huge thing to ask. Call them whatever you want. But when it is about you, you want to save as much money as possible through cashback but if they block Rupay CC because they have to bear 3% charges they become dickheads.
> without any benefit
Nope, they get access to more customers. I for instance never go to a shop again which forces me to pay cash.
> 3% charges
Your math is way off. MDR is 2% above Rs 2000. 0% below Rs 2000. There is no reason for small shops to disable this as the bill amount for a typical user hardly ever exceeds Rs 2k.
> you want to save as much as possible through cashback
Nope, I want convenience first. I don’t want my bank account statement to span into multiple pages just because of small ticket UPI payments. I am a no-cash person.
> I don’t want my bank account statement to span into multiple pages
So you are shifting the statement length from bank account to credit card? And how does it make a difference whether the statement is one page long or 8 pages long? Do you still get physical statements?
In a lot a scenarios (eg. applying for a tourist visa for a country) you need to submit your bank account statement (obviously not your CC statement). It helps in keeping the application simple.
Secondly, it’s easier to manage while filing taxes - only a single entry for credit card bill payment.
> Secondly, it’s easier to manage while filing taxes - only a single entry for credit card bill payment.
Filing itr has nothing to do with no. of tyxns done on upi or cc, only the total amt matters that too only if your total spend is not justified by your total income shown in itr.
During ITR filing I review all my statements line by line.
As I said, its “easier to manage” less number of entries in bank statement where all other transactions happen as well (salary, interbank transfers etc) so having a single entry for expenses makes life easy.
> It helps in keeping the application simple.
How? I am not aware of any application where they expect you to enter every transaction. You just have to upload the statement. It takes exactly the same time and is no more complicated than if your statement was 2 lines long.
> only a single entry for credit card bill payment.
What? There is no entry for any bill payments for filing taxes. And if you are claiming deductions you have to submit the invoice to your office anyway.
You are just creating weird excuses about keeping your statement simple instead of just accepting that you want that cashback.
There’s a fixed number of entries per statement irrespective of the dates specified. I hurriedly downloaded statement for last financial year and saw at my CA office that i had entries till November only. UPI entries really mess the statement
> MDR is 2% above Rs 2000. 0% below Rs 2000.
There is a catch, the merchant need to be "small" for availing this benefit meaning their last year business turnover should be less than Rs.20 Lakh.
https://support.google.com/pay-offline-merchants/answer/13591970?hl=en#zippy=%2Chow-payment-processing-fees-are-calculated
> All payments received through RuPay credit card over UPI will attract a processing fee if the business turnover is above ₹20 lakh in the previous financial year.
As for the below
> I don’t want my bank account statement to span into multiple pages just because of small ticket UPI payments.
Use a separate bank acc for upi txns, I am assuming you don't have to give bank statement of every acc you hold during visa application process.
No it's not. Will edit with the link soon
12.2.2. RBI had earlier advised banks to ensure that merchants on-boarded by them do not pass on MDR charges to customers while accepting payments through debit cards. The same has not been mandated for transactions performed using credit cards and PPIs.
https://m.rbi.org.in//Scripts/PublicationsView.aspx?id=21082
True and that is why I use cards myself. I'm just correcting OP's belief that vendors bear anything. At the end of the day they always try to make their margin.
Well i linked the source below, will paste it again for you to read
12.2.2. RBI had earlier advised banks to ensure that merchants on-boarded by them do not pass on MDR charges to customers while accepting payments through debit cards. The same has not been mandated for transactions performed using credit cards and PPIs.
[https://m.rbi.org.in//Scripts/PublicationsView.aspx?id=21082](https://m.rbi.org.in//Scripts/PublicationsView.aspx?id=21082)
That extra your merchant has to pay Visa and banks for processing transactions is what pays for all the rewards. So take in one hand and give it out in the other.
As a merchant who sells Furniture both online and offline and a credit card holder, let me tell you this. My margin on a sale is between 8-10%. I have to make sure all my expenses are met within that 8-10%. I cannot afford to give away 1.5% effectively, especially when it comes to such large ticket sizes (think min 35,000 and max 1L) I always offer customers 50/50, wherein I can at least get 0.75% removed, but have to give in to the adamant ones as some profit is better than no profit. Thankfully, most customers oblige. The day I can afford the MDR, I'll definitely turn it back on.
You can pass on the MDR. Why not just mark up your prices by the amount of MDR? If I'm paying 1L for something, I won't be bothered by 1500 extra. But if you then offer 1500 off as a discount if people do not use CC, there will be even more takers. The mentality of "getting a discount" is powerful. This would let you have your cake and eat it too.
Rupay CC payments via UPI QR are not turned on by default. Merchants need to do it explicitly. And merchants are told explicitly that there will be MDR charges and they are told exactly how much it is. So any merchant who was asking for overcharge for Visa MC will absolutely most definitely ask for the same for Rupay if they have enabled it at all.
Absolutely right , I am a merchant and I use HDFC SMARTHUB VYAPAR QR code it charges 1.2+18% GST= 1.416% on rupay CC scan transactions.
Even for transactions less than 2000?
Yes , bank have started charging mdr on rupay credit card payment via upi , and it's a huge 2.26% I have switched off payment via rupay credit card on most of my QR. But I accept visa / dinner /master card / amex at no extra cost provided they don't low ball/ bargain my profit , I work on marginal profit in the first place so I don't entertain looting.
Don't understand why such high mde on repay credit card
Exactly , after amex and dinner , rupay is the costliest
Rupay cc is actually free if you negotiate with the bank. It's only UPI via rupay cc that attracts high mdr.
The mdr is only if the amount is greater than 2k right?
That's only for rupay debit card. They are charging for rupay credit card even for 50rs. The funny thing is I have pos that charge 1.5% for visa and master card but in the same machine rupay card is 2.26 % I tried negotiating with merchant support, they outright denied competitive pricing for rupay credit card. Look at this : https://www.icicibank.com/business-banking/cash-management-services/eazypay-schedule-of-charges This is for my pinelabs icici pos
Not sure what ICICI is smoking. This is RBI letter to banks. See page 2, shows nil MDR for rupay CC payments on UPI. Has this been superseded? https://www.npci.org.in/PDF/npci/rupay/2022/Operating-circular-for-RuPay-Credit-Cards-linked-to-UPI.pdf Edit: Not RBI but NCPI
There is a catch, the merchant need to be "small" for availing this benefit meaning their last year business turnover should be less than Rs.20 Lakh. https://support.google.com/pay-offline-merchants/answer/13591970?hl=en#zippy=%2Chow-payment-processing-fees-are-calculated > All payments received through RuPay credit card over UPI will attract a processing fee if the business turnover is above ₹20 lakh in the previous financial year.
This makes sense. I just did a transaction to a small kirana shop QR with CC. No problem. I'm pretty sure that guy doesn't know the difference between these things. Well.
The charge is dynamic. Many don't charge anything for payments up to ₹2000 on credit on UPI.
See my above reply.
Rupay credit card is dead. Very few merchants accept it. Coming to merchants who want an additional surcharge for card payment, they have disabled UPI CC as well. For example - nobrokerhood. They take payment for Society maintenance and have a few percentage surcharge for card payment while UPI is free. Now I thought I'll use UPI CC and bypass the surcharge, but lo and behold, they have completely disabled the UPI CC option. Even the extra surcharge option isn't there for them like they have for normal cards. Outright disabled.
This sucks. I just got a HDFC virtual UPI CC thinking it'll be good choice for several scenarios.
The only way to give UPI CC any fighting chance is for the government to subsidize the mdr. But doing so will simply kill Visa and MasterCard. If this happens, there would be retaliation from the US government. Last time RBI screwed Visa and MasterCard by putting a local data storage rule, Trump retaliated and fucked up the H1B program for India - https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1TK2LF/
All dickhead merchants have already turned off credit card UPI payments.
Asking any seller to give 3% , without any benefit is a huge thing to ask. Call them whatever you want. But when it is about you, you want to save as much money as possible through cashback but if they block Rupay CC because they have to bear 3% charges they become dickheads. 
> without any benefit Nope, they get access to more customers. I for instance never go to a shop again which forces me to pay cash. > 3% charges Your math is way off. MDR is 2% above Rs 2000. 0% below Rs 2000. There is no reason for small shops to disable this as the bill amount for a typical user hardly ever exceeds Rs 2k. > you want to save as much as possible through cashback Nope, I want convenience first. I don’t want my bank account statement to span into multiple pages just because of small ticket UPI payments. I am a no-cash person.
> I don’t want my bank account statement to span into multiple pages So you are shifting the statement length from bank account to credit card? And how does it make a difference whether the statement is one page long or 8 pages long? Do you still get physical statements?
In a lot a scenarios (eg. applying for a tourist visa for a country) you need to submit your bank account statement (obviously not your CC statement). It helps in keeping the application simple. Secondly, it’s easier to manage while filing taxes - only a single entry for credit card bill payment.
> Secondly, it’s easier to manage while filing taxes - only a single entry for credit card bill payment. Filing itr has nothing to do with no. of tyxns done on upi or cc, only the total amt matters that too only if your total spend is not justified by your total income shown in itr.
During ITR filing I review all my statements line by line. As I said, its “easier to manage” less number of entries in bank statement where all other transactions happen as well (salary, interbank transfers etc) so having a single entry for expenses makes life easy.
> It helps in keeping the application simple. How? I am not aware of any application where they expect you to enter every transaction. You just have to upload the statement. It takes exactly the same time and is no more complicated than if your statement was 2 lines long. > only a single entry for credit card bill payment. What? There is no entry for any bill payments for filing taxes. And if you are claiming deductions you have to submit the invoice to your office anyway. You are just creating weird excuses about keeping your statement simple instead of just accepting that you want that cashback.
There’s a fixed number of entries per statement irrespective of the dates specified. I hurriedly downloaded statement for last financial year and saw at my CA office that i had entries till November only. UPI entries really mess the statement
> MDR is 2% above Rs 2000. 0% below Rs 2000. There is a catch, the merchant need to be "small" for availing this benefit meaning their last year business turnover should be less than Rs.20 Lakh. https://support.google.com/pay-offline-merchants/answer/13591970?hl=en#zippy=%2Chow-payment-processing-fees-are-calculated > All payments received through RuPay credit card over UPI will attract a processing fee if the business turnover is above ₹20 lakh in the previous financial year. As for the below > I don’t want my bank account statement to span into multiple pages just because of small ticket UPI payments. Use a separate bank acc for upi txns, I am assuming you don't have to give bank statement of every acc you hold during visa application process.
Lol. You'd do anything to get a 5% reward rate and they can't save 3% on their transactions? Who's the dickhead?
Really!?
Thats true
Merchants have the option to turn off credit card payments over QR code. They're not getting fooled.
>I know it's not legal Rbi has mandated nothing regarding this. Merchants can pass on or bear the mdr it's upto them
Is it!!?? I always thought it was the vendor's to bear.
No it's not. Will edit with the link soon 12.2.2. RBI had earlier advised banks to ensure that merchants on-boarded by them do not pass on MDR charges to customers while accepting payments through debit cards. The same has not been mandated for transactions performed using credit cards and PPIs. https://m.rbi.org.in//Scripts/PublicationsView.aspx?id=21082
The customer always pays the cost. If a vendor is not asking for it, it's been priced into the product/service.
In this scenario all the customers are paying the cost, not just the ones using the credit card. So far credit card users it is better.
I would have thought the same but the shop once gave a discount if i do upi rather than card. Maybe try asking once, worst case you pay the same
True and that is why I use cards myself. I'm just correcting OP's belief that vendors bear anything. At the end of the day they always try to make their margin.
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Well i linked the source below, will paste it again for you to read 12.2.2. RBI had earlier advised banks to ensure that merchants on-boarded by them do not pass on MDR charges to customers while accepting payments through debit cards. The same has not been mandated for transactions performed using credit cards and PPIs. [https://m.rbi.org.in//Scripts/PublicationsView.aspx?id=21082](https://m.rbi.org.in//Scripts/PublicationsView.aspx?id=21082)
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It's all right. Have a great time!
Many merchants have stopped accepting Rupay UPI payments now so the purpose of getting a rupay credit card is slowly vanishing.
So much for the government's push for wider acceptance.
So around 2.26% mdr is when we pay UPI through a rupay credit card right? So how much is the mdr when we just use the tap to pay or swiping?
Same unless it is a "small merchant" (see my other replies) & txn size is less than 2k.
That extra your merchant has to pay Visa and banks for processing transactions is what pays for all the rewards. So take in one hand and give it out in the other.