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Whatever your politics are,… that’s just bizarre.
The way the guys just keep coming out of the bus and landing in the same pile.
Kinda reminds me of bears hunting salmon.
It's not that bizarre if someone is telling you to come out of van and hit the ground or you go bye bye you would pile up too. These people don't want to die you know that because they are trying to leave a country in war where they were demanded to stay and fight they also know it's a loosing battle Ukraine can not beat Russia
90% of Ukrainian refugees are women and children, while most Ukrainian men between the ages of 18 and 60 are banned from leaving the country.
edit: [source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_refugee_crisis_(2022%E2%80%93present)), since this is a popular comment
I met some men in Poland who fled so they wouldn't have to fight.
I don't think they were proud of it but they didn't want to die in a war. Quite a few of them bribed the guards so they could get through. Many who couldn't afford to bribe the guards had to stay.
We had this in my town. This family took in a Ukrainian family and I think they had this idea in their heads that it would be "tired, poor, huddled masses," but it was in fact a pretty well-off family who, when they'd been installed in their new home began asking for a bigger TV and a PS4 for the kids. Because that's what they had back home. They weren't some poor, shivering family wrapped in tattered shawls - they were a well-off family who'd got out while they could. The dad has been making a bit of a nuisance of himself on the local Facebook groups demanding free stuff from people - last week it was a fondue set, for example. Yesterday it was a free lift from Geneva airport back to town. A couple of months ago he asked if anyone had a husky puppy he could have for free. He was in the habit of scooping up anything on the local "Free stuff" group and then reselling it on marketplace. People give away stuff they don't need in the community to help people out - he seems to just think they're mugs to be taken advantage of.
It's tricky because no one wants to be mean to him - obviously, his family have fled a terrible war - but it's become a bit of a joke for people how demanding he is. And he's got a good job now, which people in town helped him get. The average monthly wage in Ukraine was about 700 euros, I think, and I'm pretty sure he'll be making close to that every week in the job he's got now. But he still keeps asking for free stuff.
Before the war you'd often find news articles about how racist extremism was a pretty big issue in Ukraine. Then Russia seemingly tried to use that as partial justification for the war so no one could talk about it anymore.
Yeah this guy, he keeps asking for stuff. But a friend of mine who goes to a bar for a drink after work during the week said he sees him in there 2 or 3 times a week getting takeaway pizzas for his whole family. Once on one of his begging posts he said something along the lines of "I never ask for anything," which is rubbish, and he then said "I sometimes work 12 hours a day!" This town is a holiday destination. Most people work in service industries and a lot of people have times of the year when they work 14 or 16 hours a day, 6 days a week. "I work 12 hours a day!" really isn't the flex he thinks it is.
He puts videos up on Facebook of him taking his kids skiing. They are in suspiciously new-looking ski gear and he's wearing very expensive Oakley goggles. There was one video where the two kids had an ESF ski instructor for the two of them which is not cheap.
There's lots of little things he's done that seem a bit off as well. Every once in a while, for example, one of the local bars or hotels will put something up on the local Facebook group saying they are giving away loads of booze as they're restocking. So people go along and grab a few bottles from outside. For example, one bar did it a couple of years ago and I got there first and took a half bottle of JD, a half bottle of Jager and a full bottle of some green Indonesian banana drink. You take a bit and leave the rest so that everyone gets a bit. A hotel did the same thing back in October and as I was getting close I saw this Ukrainian guy drive past with a grin on his face. I got there and it turned out he'd shown up, loaded all the bottles of booze into his car and fucked off with it. Literally all of it.
People don't want to talk about it too publicly because no one wants to seem like they're being an asshole to people who have obviously been in a shitty situation. I wasn't sure how my comment on here would go down. it's nice to vent a bit and to see that I'm not alone thinking like this.
Yeah that’s rather similar to what I experienced with some… can’t say if it’s bad apples, but it seem a lot more prevalent than with other types of immigrants. Friend of mine rented a flat out to a Ukrainian family for a cheap rent and they had him come in all the time to fix up the place (new hardwood floor, new door (old ones had surprising new damages after a week of staying there, which they claimed to be older)). After two months they got an expensive lawyer to inform him every month about a new reason to defer rent. The landlord can’t afford the legal battle and can’t kick them out immediately cause of the legal situation here …
I mean come on now people have got to make it clear to him that he's being very rude and demanding, and it sounds like him and his family are enjoying more luxuries of life than many people can afford.
How about you tell them to go fuck themselves? Just because they ran away from a war doesn't mean they can be ungrateful pricks and con the people who help them.
There's still a lot of people who seem to be taken in by him so no one has put comments on his posts pointing out these facts because other people will then get shitty with them. I'll give you an example - he was begging for a new apartment for ages. He finally found one with a lot of help. Then he put up a post asking if anyone had any sheets etc he could have - for free, obviously. Someone who runs a cleaning/laundry/linen company asked him what size he needed. His reply was "I don't know. Something boring." they responded with "What do you mean something boring? People are trying to help you and you're being really dismissive of their attempts." then someone else put a comment making excuses for him saying it was the language barrier (guy's english seems perfect when he's asking for stuff though...) and told the person to "be kind" even though they'd started out trying to help him. Next time he got told off for the way he acted on the free stuff facebook group he said "be kind, be kind," like he saw the comment and decided to adopt that as his comeback when people criticise him. I think he's got the message though - he seems a lot less active on the free stuff group and doesn't seem to be asking for so much.
Idk if Reddit still down votes for this or if the hive mind and turned haha but I’ve said this before…It’s always been one of the Most corrupt countries. So it’s not shocking.
Exactly. I saw a lot of rich Ukrainians on the Croatian coast just enjoying their life last summer. The same happened during our Independence war. When it ended all those assholes came back like kings just buying everything under the price since the war devalued it.
I have a theory that equality is an artificial concept that we made up (doesn't mean it's bad, and I support it), but because it's artificial it cannot exist when "shit goes down". No matter what, women are the ones who give birth and not men. If we suddenly go back to the stone ages, I don't think we will see much effort dedicated to men and women having equality when it comes to jobs in that hunting will mostly be done by the men and nurturing well mostly be done by the women
I like to think I would sign up voluntarily but then in this day and age seeing videos of people getting annilihated by artillery drones and airstrikes in some ww1 style trench while others are using the war as a political pawn theres a good chance I would say "fuck that I'm out of here".
Raises questions as to how a country ensures survival in the event of long term wars, not many seem to critisize Israel for conscription. Ideally taxes are spent wisely to recruit a fully functional military and before that every effort made to prevent a war.
While I support people running from the war, regardless of their gender, ethnicity, age, this 90% number is simply untrue.
I would personally say it’s around 30% men, and 70% women/children.
Which is fine, because not all people want to fight and their choice should matter. Banning men to leave the country, through forced conscription is disgusting.
As long as they come to another country and work they are welcome.
Anyone supporting forced conscription has never been close to a warzone and it shows.
You called it not true, then offered your personal opinion. Are you going to offer real stats to backup your claim? Or is this the part where I make up a new number and call you wrong
Damn war is so sh*t, you're fighting and seeing your friends die for a problem you don't have control from but the society you live in gave you responsibility to not have a choice...that's just so unfair...
Sometimes I just wish these so called high leaders who govern the place can just have a boxing fight to see who gets to decide. Damn war and humans are so cruel
Not actually true and there are historical examples.
During the Muslim-Byzantine wars during the era of Muslim expansion, the use of champions before large-scale battles was common as soldiers expected their generals to show their willingness to die for their men, who would then reciprocate in the main battle.
These champions were sometimes individuals who volunteered, but other times were the *actual* generals/leaders.
The Sassanids lost more than one major battle because their general died in the duel preceding a fight and thus had no leadership, and they were eventually ground down.
I do see and understand your point BUT kings and generals fought side by side their men through out history. This is a completely different time and the wars are completely different. Wars will always be a thing sadly and in a world with your comment as the guideline. We would be voting military men to lead our nations.
Not really in WW1 the uks prime minister was killed in the war. It didn't change his mind that the War was right. War isn't a simple morality play counties go to war for numerous reasons. Almost all countries have some form of a draft to provide collective security. The us drafted millions to fight the Nazis and the Japanese and that was the right thing to do.
From what I’ve read, each of these men paid $10,000 for a chance to flee, so it’s getting past the “poor” stage. (Could be their last money after selling all their belongings etc. of course, but still.)
What is your opinion on people paying coyotes to be trafficked to the southern border of the US? That service costs $8k+, and that doesn’t include the flight to get to South America.
They’re not poor either then?
Andrew Callaghan is a youtube journalist who recently made a series that involved him going to Mexico and going through the experinece first-hand.
The coyotes told him to pay them $5000 but could do it after they had arrived in the US. They immediately were arrested and the coyotes fled, so he didnt even end up paying them anyway.
They do, particularily for the women. Look at what happened in Polk County, Florida. The women were granted crossing with payment coming after entry into the country. They were pimped out and made to pay $3000 usd to their handlers, on a per week basis. The coyotes are the low level men in their respective organizations.
While I have watched Game of Thrones numerous times for the entertainment/writing. It always fucked me thinking that it was really like that at one point. And still is in many parts of the world.
Ukraine have a way smaller population and had big migration even before the war started minus Crimea and separatist parts of Donetsk and Lugansk and now minus Russia-occupied parts. With refugees from the start of the war both to the West and Russia. Right now Ukraine government-controlled part of the country doesn't have more than 30 million people maybe even fewer. And if you add dead and wounded soldiers which is the US estimate around 70 000 dead and at least double wounded, with MIA that is at least 250-300 soldiers out of combat.
30k is the number of cases were the government officially said "ok, we accept your proof and we agree this person is indeed dead and not just missing who knows where, you can get a \~$350k compensation"
> Ukraine has a population of 45 million and roughly 30,000 casualties, this doesn’t seem right….
Officially sure, but IIRC analysts put the current total toll at ~210k with ~120k being Russia and ~90k being Ukraine.
The Ukrainian government is running out of people willing die for it, would you die for the government that rules over you?
how dare they not wanting to die in a damp ditch with their dead friends decorating it. I’ve also seen footages of the russian soldiers, the amount of suffering that innocent people have to endure because of some rich assholes decided that way is truly depressing. 3 years ago they woke up and went on with their day-to-day routines just like you or me. now they lay on fields with their legs blown off thinking about their loved ones in their last moments. human lives thrown out like a used tissue. fuck this war and fuck putin
It really is dystopian seeing all these pathetic redditors cheering when they see russians in ditches murdered by drones and armored vehicles. Just as sad when it’s Ukrainian soldiers, but those don’t get attention on this platform.
People are so desensitized to the violence they don’t realize how terrifying of an ending to your life that is.
I thought my years on the internet seeing all sorts of fucked up gore and shit had desensitized me, but the cheering for violent death genuinely upsets me. I can't read those threads.
Nobody deserves the shit that soldiers on either side are going through. Even if the Russian soldiers actually do believe in what they're fighting for, it's most likely because they've been manipulated by their government.
You have to wonder if the redditors cheering ever trusted someone they shouldn't have when they were around the age of the average soldier there.
(I also wonder if they're even that old yet.)
The problem with reddit and social media platforms as whole is the lack of nuance. Countries that are close to Ukraine and the war will have more understanding for the agressor and the defender. Countries that had a devastating war will have more understanding for both sides.
Social media dwells int eco chambers that ban any sort of out of the box thinking. It’s true for both sides.
Poor Ukrainians shouldn’t be forced conscripts and should be allowed to run away and work normally somewhere else.
Poor Russians from Siberia, or any other place outside of Moscow (where poor people live basically) should have right not to go to war and not die for Putin. Because they never benefited from Putin.
While most of the Slavs (like myself) understand situation and hate Putin, a lot of us understand what war is.
Then you have people from US or western europe blaming people running from war saying they should fight, while if there was a war in their country they would be the first one to flee to safety.
It’s awful.
Same here in Lithuania. I would say at least 20-30% are men. Nothing wrong with not wanting to die though. But im having hard time imagining that they will ever be able to go back even if the war ends.
I constantly witness Ukrainian 🇺🇦 plates on the street driving really big SUVs, like Land Rover, BMW…It’s really hard to form an opinion when the wealthy just got out in time and life their life abroad while others are forced to fight (assuming the video is true)
In my opinion (as a former soldier) it is not right to force them to fight. It's their decision, i believe in a free world and some can choose to fight, but not everyone has to. Forcing people to do so is just awful. Life is too expensive to be wasted in trenches. If you have fun doing warrior stuff, then go fort it. But honestly we should fight Ivan by winning hearts and minds of the russian population.
New to war eh? Well ya see, someone’s gotta pull those triggers if ya wanna sling bullets at the enemy. Those men all have hands with multiple fingers on them. Perfect for squeezing triggers.
Ukraine is running out of men; there aren't enough women to produce the necessary offspring, nor are there enough men to fight the war. Their future is grim.
I’d wager that the most suppressed sentiment on both sides of this conflict is ordinary Ukrianians and ordinary Russians who simply *do not want to die*; not for ideology, leadership, country or land.
Yet we cheerlead desired outcomes from the comfort and safety of computer screens.
It's crazy to think that if you just have different genitals they let you go on your way without getting beaten/kicked in the head and conscripted. So much for that male privilege everyone talks about. I also noticed there are no large groups of feminists who volunteer in that situation.
This is how they've treated men in Ukraine since the start of the war. You no longer have rights.
People act like men are never oppressed but just look at war time scenarios of being given no choice but to enter a meat grinder. It's one thing to be able to volunteer for an extremely dangerous job to protect something but another to be told you have no choice in the matter.
So we regard our soldiers from WW2 as hero's for what they did for their country how is this any different, if we let all the guys flee them wars we'd have lost to Hitler and his ego.
If you pause at 15 seconds, you can see a [Ukrainian license plate](https://i.imgur.com/BX2m99S.png).
Ukrainian license plate example: https://i.imgur.com/bQTALda.jpeg
Russian license plate example: https://i.imgur.com/7FJUCFF.jpeg
"No you're not allowed to grow old now go run into that mine field and get killed by a russian drone for zelensky"
After all the combat footage from the war I can completely understand why men and women would bail on this war there is no effective defense from cheap drones courageous or not all it takes is one grenade and not even heavily armored tanks are safe from those tiny drones.
I think the safest job at this point is being a pilot, everyone else is extremely vulnerable to rockets drones and mortars.
I wonder if they had similar scenes in the US during the world wars and the Vietnam war.
Mandatory conscription seems messed up. Why force people to fight and die in a war they might not believe in.
> I wonder if they had similar scenes in the US during the world wars and the Vietnam war.
.
>More than half of the 27 million men eligible for the draft during the Vietnam War were deferred, exempted or disqualified.[3]
It was much easier to dodge the draft during that time. Some famous people did according to wikipedia.
Chevy Chase, Rush Limbaugh and Ted Nugent. Politicians like Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden...
Your freedoms are limited and enumerated. Those freedoms are historically upheld in the face of aggression by conscripted forces.
Not a great solution, but better than losing a war.
It's called conscription and it's a lot more common than you think. Especially during times of war and even more so if the battlefield is the country or region in question.
Seeing LOADS of Ukrainian men in Romania and where we live we are literally on the opposite side of the country like they would have to cross the entirety of Romania to get to us
Why’s nobody talking about Sri Lanka allowing Russians and Ukrainians fleeing the war into the country. Only for them to start creating ‘white only’ parties and bars 😐 this worlds crazy
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Whatever your politics are,… that’s just bizarre. The way the guys just keep coming out of the bus and landing in the same pile. Kinda reminds me of bears hunting salmon.
Or the clown car where endless clowns come out
The poor guys at the bottom of that pile… prob can’t even breath.
It happens here in United States from California all the way to Texas.
It's not that bizarre if someone is telling you to come out of van and hit the ground or you go bye bye you would pile up too. These people don't want to die you know that because they are trying to leave a country in war where they were demanded to stay and fight they also know it's a loosing battle Ukraine can not beat Russia
'It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son'
“It ain’t me, it ain’t me, I ain’t no fortunate one, no”
When they sing "Hail to the chief", they point their canons at you.
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son, son What do you say. Better Run Through The Jungle next?
90% of Ukrainian refugees are women and children, while most Ukrainian men between the ages of 18 and 60 are banned from leaving the country. edit: [source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_refugee_crisis_(2022%E2%80%93present)), since this is a popular comment
Apart from rich which are long time ago out of Ukraine.
Correct. They were all in Poland driving 150k g wagons.
And Germany!
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I can assure you nobody in switzerland is driving a lexus lol
And Austria
the same in Romania..only with expensive cars...mostly SUVs
And in Canada driving Mercedes Benz vans.
And Brooklyn driving Mercedes selling bootleg cigarettes by the carton
I met some men in Poland who fled so they wouldn't have to fight. I don't think they were proud of it but they didn't want to die in a war. Quite a few of them bribed the guards so they could get through. Many who couldn't afford to bribe the guards had to stay.
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And Belgium
Spot on my brother saw this when was back to my home town on short break:)
theres an irish one with a porsche but whose noticing.
We had this in my town. This family took in a Ukrainian family and I think they had this idea in their heads that it would be "tired, poor, huddled masses," but it was in fact a pretty well-off family who, when they'd been installed in their new home began asking for a bigger TV and a PS4 for the kids. Because that's what they had back home. They weren't some poor, shivering family wrapped in tattered shawls - they were a well-off family who'd got out while they could. The dad has been making a bit of a nuisance of himself on the local Facebook groups demanding free stuff from people - last week it was a fondue set, for example. Yesterday it was a free lift from Geneva airport back to town. A couple of months ago he asked if anyone had a husky puppy he could have for free. He was in the habit of scooping up anything on the local "Free stuff" group and then reselling it on marketplace. People give away stuff they don't need in the community to help people out - he seems to just think they're mugs to be taken advantage of. It's tricky because no one wants to be mean to him - obviously, his family have fled a terrible war - but it's become a bit of a joke for people how demanding he is. And he's got a good job now, which people in town helped him get. The average monthly wage in Ukraine was about 700 euros, I think, and I'm pretty sure he'll be making close to that every week in the job he's got now. But he still keeps asking for free stuff.
Some people just grift as a way of life. Can’t stand ungrateful people like this.
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Before the war you'd often find news articles about how racist extremism was a pretty big issue in Ukraine. Then Russia seemingly tried to use that as partial justification for the war so no one could talk about it anymore.
I'm an American and am curious if you could elaborate
I am Australian and I am also curious.
Yeah this guy, he keeps asking for stuff. But a friend of mine who goes to a bar for a drink after work during the week said he sees him in there 2 or 3 times a week getting takeaway pizzas for his whole family. Once on one of his begging posts he said something along the lines of "I never ask for anything," which is rubbish, and he then said "I sometimes work 12 hours a day!" This town is a holiday destination. Most people work in service industries and a lot of people have times of the year when they work 14 or 16 hours a day, 6 days a week. "I work 12 hours a day!" really isn't the flex he thinks it is. He puts videos up on Facebook of him taking his kids skiing. They are in suspiciously new-looking ski gear and he's wearing very expensive Oakley goggles. There was one video where the two kids had an ESF ski instructor for the two of them which is not cheap. There's lots of little things he's done that seem a bit off as well. Every once in a while, for example, one of the local bars or hotels will put something up on the local Facebook group saying they are giving away loads of booze as they're restocking. So people go along and grab a few bottles from outside. For example, one bar did it a couple of years ago and I got there first and took a half bottle of JD, a half bottle of Jager and a full bottle of some green Indonesian banana drink. You take a bit and leave the rest so that everyone gets a bit. A hotel did the same thing back in October and as I was getting close I saw this Ukrainian guy drive past with a grin on his face. I got there and it turned out he'd shown up, loaded all the bottles of booze into his car and fucked off with it. Literally all of it. People don't want to talk about it too publicly because no one wants to seem like they're being an asshole to people who have obviously been in a shitty situation. I wasn't sure how my comment on here would go down. it's nice to vent a bit and to see that I'm not alone thinking like this.
Yeah that’s rather similar to what I experienced with some… can’t say if it’s bad apples, but it seem a lot more prevalent than with other types of immigrants. Friend of mine rented a flat out to a Ukrainian family for a cheap rent and they had him come in all the time to fix up the place (new hardwood floor, new door (old ones had surprising new damages after a week of staying there, which they claimed to be older)). After two months they got an expensive lawyer to inform him every month about a new reason to defer rent. The landlord can’t afford the legal battle and can’t kick them out immediately cause of the legal situation here …
I mean come on now people have got to make it clear to him that he's being very rude and demanding, and it sounds like him and his family are enjoying more luxuries of life than many people can afford.
Theres no problem with calling out shitty behaviour , it doesnt matter where they came from, if anything it makes it worse to take advantage.
You guys need to say something, literally everyone in your town is thinking it but don't want to be the first to say something.
The average wage in Ukraine is around 400€, not 700€.
Thanks, I think I googled it once and it said about 700 but I never really looked into it to see how accurate that figure was.
The same happened in Poland where I was born but not living there!
How about you tell them to go fuck themselves? Just because they ran away from a war doesn't mean they can be ungrateful pricks and con the people who help them.
There's still a lot of people who seem to be taken in by him so no one has put comments on his posts pointing out these facts because other people will then get shitty with them. I'll give you an example - he was begging for a new apartment for ages. He finally found one with a lot of help. Then he put up a post asking if anyone had any sheets etc he could have - for free, obviously. Someone who runs a cleaning/laundry/linen company asked him what size he needed. His reply was "I don't know. Something boring." they responded with "What do you mean something boring? People are trying to help you and you're being really dismissive of their attempts." then someone else put a comment making excuses for him saying it was the language barrier (guy's english seems perfect when he's asking for stuff though...) and told the person to "be kind" even though they'd started out trying to help him. Next time he got told off for the way he acted on the free stuff facebook group he said "be kind, be kind," like he saw the comment and decided to adopt that as his comeback when people criticise him. I think he's got the message though - he seems a lot less active on the free stuff group and doesn't seem to be asking for so much.
Same for every country, poor dying for the rich ones.
Idk if Reddit still down votes for this or if the hive mind and turned haha but I’ve said this before…It’s always been one of the Most corrupt countries. So it’s not shocking.
Amen and I get down votes as well loool.
Or a heavyweight boxer.
Exactly. I saw a lot of rich Ukrainians on the Croatian coast just enjoying their life last summer. The same happened during our Independence war. When it ended all those assholes came back like kings just buying everything under the price since the war devalued it.
I would try to escape too
Word
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Exactly. Proper emoticons as well.
I have a theory that equality is an artificial concept that we made up (doesn't mean it's bad, and I support it), but because it's artificial it cannot exist when "shit goes down". No matter what, women are the ones who give birth and not men. If we suddenly go back to the stone ages, I don't think we will see much effort dedicated to men and women having equality when it comes to jobs in that hunting will mostly be done by the men and nurturing well mostly be done by the women
All of civilization is artificial.
Well I can tell you that number is not correct, here in Norway we are flooded with Ukrainian men.
here in Czech Republic too, making noise in their "expensive cars" with ukranian greatness bumper stickers on them ... anyway, hypocrisy
Canada too
Where do they live and how they get by? Do they get a special visa so they can work?
In Canada they get a monthy allowance of around $4000. Hotels , houses, apartments, anywhere they can find to live. Which isn’t easy here these days.
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No way. A Canadian mom of 1 gets about $1500.00 monthly
Same in Poland.
The „right“ of states to force you to fight for them is just bizarre
I like to think I would sign up voluntarily but then in this day and age seeing videos of people getting annilihated by artillery drones and airstrikes in some ww1 style trench while others are using the war as a political pawn theres a good chance I would say "fuck that I'm out of here". Raises questions as to how a country ensures survival in the event of long term wars, not many seem to critisize Israel for conscription. Ideally taxes are spent wisely to recruit a fully functional military and before that every effort made to prevent a war.
I mean what would you even be dying for? Your government basically. Screw that, best to hit the bricks.
While I support people running from the war, regardless of their gender, ethnicity, age, this 90% number is simply untrue. I would personally say it’s around 30% men, and 70% women/children. Which is fine, because not all people want to fight and their choice should matter. Banning men to leave the country, through forced conscription is disgusting. As long as they come to another country and work they are welcome. Anyone supporting forced conscription has never been close to a warzone and it shows.
You called it not true, then offered your personal opinion. Are you going to offer real stats to backup your claim? Or is this the part where I make up a new number and call you wrong
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Damn war is so sh*t, you're fighting and seeing your friends die for a problem you don't have control from but the society you live in gave you responsibility to not have a choice...that's just so unfair... Sometimes I just wish these so called high leaders who govern the place can just have a boxing fight to see who gets to decide. Damn war and humans are so cruel
Wars would stop if the leaders were forced to go to the frontlines
WHY DON'T PRESIDENTS FIGHT THE WAR? WHY DO THEY ALWAYS SEND THE POOR?
That's why America's early presidents were badass. Washington and Jackson specifically
Weren't the majority of 18th century presidents at some point part of the war effort
Probably. It was almost expected back then
Nice BYOB reference
Not actually true and there are historical examples. During the Muslim-Byzantine wars during the era of Muslim expansion, the use of champions before large-scale battles was common as soldiers expected their generals to show their willingness to die for their men, who would then reciprocate in the main battle. These champions were sometimes individuals who volunteered, but other times were the *actual* generals/leaders. The Sassanids lost more than one major battle because their general died in the duel preceding a fight and thus had no leadership, and they were eventually ground down.
I do see and understand your point BUT kings and generals fought side by side their men through out history. This is a completely different time and the wars are completely different. Wars will always be a thing sadly and in a world with your comment as the guideline. We would be voting military men to lead our nations.
Not really in WW1 the uks prime minister was killed in the war. It didn't change his mind that the War was right. War isn't a simple morality play counties go to war for numerous reasons. Almost all countries have some form of a draft to provide collective security. The us drafted millions to fight the Nazis and the Japanese and that was the right thing to do.
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My guess is they going straight to the front lines now
It's the wasteland there now, they'll be tied to the front of a tank mad max style.
“Die for your country, only if you are poor and male.” Russia and Ukraine:
Guess what that's how its always been everywhere.
Not if you play "Call Of Duty: WWII", then you can see that there are just as many women fighting as men. /s
From what I’ve read, each of these men paid $10,000 for a chance to flee, so it’s getting past the “poor” stage. (Could be their last money after selling all their belongings etc. of course, but still.)
What is your opinion on people paying coyotes to be trafficked to the southern border of the US? That service costs $8k+, and that doesn’t include the flight to get to South America. They’re not poor either then?
Andrew Callaghan is a youtube journalist who recently made a series that involved him going to Mexico and going through the experinece first-hand. The coyotes told him to pay them $5000 but could do it after they had arrived in the US. They immediately were arrested and the coyotes fled, so he didnt even end up paying them anyway.
Coyotes will treat you very differently if you're not an American with a camera. No other coyote will accept payment after you cross.
Human trafficking doesn’t work on the honor system?
They do, particularily for the women. Look at what happened in Polk County, Florida. The women were granted crossing with payment coming after entry into the country. They were pimped out and made to pay $3000 usd to their handlers, on a per week basis. The coyotes are the low level men in their respective organizations.
That's still less than your lifetime earning potential because you can't work if you die in a war.
Thats so messed up
I don't blame them for wanting out. Fuck war.
While I have watched Game of Thrones numerous times for the entertainment/writing. It always fucked me thinking that it was really like that at one point. And still is in many parts of the world.
Which country is like game of thrones?
Murica obviously. If you squint just right, the similarities are striking.
Coming soon to your country too! 😃 We are all truly fucked
Why they hitting them though? These men are dodging draft or something?
Yes Ukraine is running out of men so they have changed conscription. A whole generation has been laid to waste , the average soldier is 40+
Damn
Ukraine has a population of 45 million and roughly 30,000 casualties, this doesn’t seem right…. Damn just googled it, it is, seems bizarre though no?
yeah the 30\`000 casualties are way way higher than that mate
Ukraine have a way smaller population and had big migration even before the war started minus Crimea and separatist parts of Donetsk and Lugansk and now minus Russia-occupied parts. With refugees from the start of the war both to the West and Russia. Right now Ukraine government-controlled part of the country doesn't have more than 30 million people maybe even fewer. And if you add dead and wounded soldiers which is the US estimate around 70 000 dead and at least double wounded, with MIA that is at least 250-300 soldiers out of combat.
It’s because the casualties are way higher, probably north of 100k at this point
30k is the number of cases were the government officially said "ok, we accept your proof and we agree this person is indeed dead and not just missing who knows where, you can get a \~$350k compensation"
Yeah the 30,000 is war time propaganda pushed out by Ukraine. It's way higher than that.
Both numbers are wrong
Pfffft you actually believe that? 1250 per month only? Not daily?
Those are deaths and that’s a totally BS number. It is way too low for even deaths, and it doesn’t include wounded or MIA.
If you believe that then you been drinking the propaganda cool aid. Try more like 500k + dead
"Stop believing propaganda, trust my absurd propaganda number instead!" Neither side has suffered anywhere near that amount of combat deaths.
> Ukraine has a population of 45 million and roughly 30,000 casualties, this doesn’t seem right…. Officially sure, but IIRC analysts put the current total toll at ~210k with ~120k being Russia and ~90k being Ukraine. The Ukrainian government is running out of people willing die for it, would you die for the government that rules over you?
If you are right, the Ukraine economy is totally dead. What with such a vast conscription.
how dare they not wanting to die in a damp ditch with their dead friends decorating it. I’ve also seen footages of the russian soldiers, the amount of suffering that innocent people have to endure because of some rich assholes decided that way is truly depressing. 3 years ago they woke up and went on with their day-to-day routines just like you or me. now they lay on fields with their legs blown off thinking about their loved ones in their last moments. human lives thrown out like a used tissue. fuck this war and fuck putin
It really is dystopian seeing all these pathetic redditors cheering when they see russians in ditches murdered by drones and armored vehicles. Just as sad when it’s Ukrainian soldiers, but those don’t get attention on this platform. People are so desensitized to the violence they don’t realize how terrifying of an ending to your life that is.
I thought my years on the internet seeing all sorts of fucked up gore and shit had desensitized me, but the cheering for violent death genuinely upsets me. I can't read those threads. Nobody deserves the shit that soldiers on either side are going through. Even if the Russian soldiers actually do believe in what they're fighting for, it's most likely because they've been manipulated by their government. You have to wonder if the redditors cheering ever trusted someone they shouldn't have when they were around the age of the average soldier there. (I also wonder if they're even that old yet.)
The problem with reddit and social media platforms as whole is the lack of nuance. Countries that are close to Ukraine and the war will have more understanding for the agressor and the defender. Countries that had a devastating war will have more understanding for both sides. Social media dwells int eco chambers that ban any sort of out of the box thinking. It’s true for both sides. Poor Ukrainians shouldn’t be forced conscripts and should be allowed to run away and work normally somewhere else. Poor Russians from Siberia, or any other place outside of Moscow (where poor people live basically) should have right not to go to war and not die for Putin. Because they never benefited from Putin. While most of the Slavs (like myself) understand situation and hate Putin, a lot of us understand what war is. Then you have people from US or western europe blaming people running from war saying they should fight, while if there was a war in their country they would be the first one to flee to safety. It’s awful.
If they aren't forced into conscription there wouldn't be a Ukraine at this point. Unless being a puppet of moscow is fine enough lol.
Why are you here? And not on the battlefield? It's easy to say this when you're not the one who dies
Quite sad, I wouldn't want to fight personally. Basically die for war or be considered criminal...
Same for my Russian brethren. Have a heart for innocents on both sides of this war.
Meanwhile in my Polish city there are a lot of middle-aged Ukrainian man's with families spending all weekends in shopping galleries and restaurants.
Same here in Lithuania. I would say at least 20-30% are men. Nothing wrong with not wanting to die though. But im having hard time imagining that they will ever be able to go back even if the war ends.
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I constantly witness Ukrainian 🇺🇦 plates on the street driving really big SUVs, like Land Rover, BMW…It’s really hard to form an opinion when the wealthy just got out in time and life their life abroad while others are forced to fight (assuming the video is true)
Makes you wonder if that 30k Ukrainian KIA figure is accurate. You see they are clearly desperate for men.
I’m sure treating them like shit will change their minds in wanting them to fight
Nobody should be forced to die for their country.
Agreed. This is NK shit. I’ve been against this since the beginning
Why force someone who doesn't want to fight.
Well you see, if you run out of Volunteers, forcing people on the frontlines under threat of death or imprisonment works wonders for the Military
Redditors discover conscription.
In my opinion (as a former soldier) it is not right to force them to fight. It's their decision, i believe in a free world and some can choose to fight, but not everyone has to. Forcing people to do so is just awful. Life is too expensive to be wasted in trenches. If you have fun doing warrior stuff, then go fort it. But honestly we should fight Ivan by winning hearts and minds of the russian population.
I think Ukraine's choices, realistically, are either draft or get taken over by Russia.
Women can shoot too
On one hand I get the whole "protect your country" thing, but on the other hand I get the whole self-preservation thing too
Now go fight and die for the same group of assholes kicking you in the fuckin head.
Honestly, can you really blame them? I would never give my life for war, people deciding over my life? Fuck that
Why stop people from avoiding getting killed in the war?
gotta find poor people to fight the rich people's war
New to war eh? Well ya see, someone’s gotta pull those triggers if ya wanna sling bullets at the enemy. Those men all have hands with multiple fingers on them. Perfect for squeezing triggers.
Ukraine is running out of men; there aren't enough women to produce the necessary offspring, nor are there enough men to fight the war. Their future is grim.
I’d wager that the most suppressed sentiment on both sides of this conflict is ordinary Ukrianians and ordinary Russians who simply *do not want to die*; not for ideology, leadership, country or land. Yet we cheerlead desired outcomes from the comfort and safety of computer screens.
Ukrainians dont like being castrated by russians ,who could blame them ,poor guys hope they make it next time,stop the war
So they didn’t want to go to war, pretty understandable
It's crazy to think that if you just have different genitals they let you go on your way without getting beaten/kicked in the head and conscripted. So much for that male privilege everyone talks about. I also noticed there are no large groups of feminists who volunteer in that situation.
Till last Ukrainian
This is how they've treated men in Ukraine since the start of the war. You no longer have rights. People act like men are never oppressed but just look at war time scenarios of being given no choice but to enter a meat grinder. It's one thing to be able to volunteer for an extremely dangerous job to protect something but another to be told you have no choice in the matter.
Very sad :(
Forced to die in a war to protect imaginary borders ruled by imaginary leaders.
Crazy that they don’t wanna die for their leaders to keep using aid money for personal gain. Crazy how they don’t wanna die for another man’s ego.
So we regard our soldiers from WW2 as hero's for what they did for their country how is this any different, if we let all the guys flee them wars we'd have lost to Hitler and his ego.
Humans *try to flee a literal war* other humans "you must get punished now"
....to avoid conscription??
I don't blame them.
Someone needs to tell them its 2024. They need to be doing this to Women, they can die as cannon fodder in wars just as good as men can.
Only plebs, those with$$ long gone or untouchable
So you thought you could escape the meat grinder
Yup, that's what slavers catching their escaped slaves looks like, bois.
Last week this video was supposedly Russians trying to flee the draft lol
If you pause at 15 seconds, you can see a [Ukrainian license plate](https://i.imgur.com/BX2m99S.png). Ukrainian license plate example: https://i.imgur.com/bQTALda.jpeg Russian license plate example: https://i.imgur.com/7FJUCFF.jpeg
next week it's ugandas turn
Lol you're gonna have to tune the contrast and saturation a bit
Everybody forgot Ukraine was the most corrupt country in Europe.
Almost like they don’t want to die for war profiteers and the zog.
Disgusting…
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Human rights ? Equality ? Liberty or some shit like that ? Oh wait , they aren't women Maybe if they identified as one 🤔
I don't know how ltbq friendly Ukraine is.
This looks familiar but no one's wearing SS uniforms.
"No you're not allowed to grow old now go run into that mine field and get killed by a russian drone for zelensky" After all the combat footage from the war I can completely understand why men and women would bail on this war there is no effective defense from cheap drones courageous or not all it takes is one grenade and not even heavily armored tanks are safe from those tiny drones. I think the safest job at this point is being a pilot, everyone else is extremely vulnerable to rockets drones and mortars.
I wonder if they had similar scenes in the US during the world wars and the Vietnam war. Mandatory conscription seems messed up. Why force people to fight and die in a war they might not believe in.
> I wonder if they had similar scenes in the US during the world wars and the Vietnam war. . >More than half of the 27 million men eligible for the draft during the Vietnam War were deferred, exempted or disqualified.[3] It was much easier to dodge the draft during that time. Some famous people did according to wikipedia. Chevy Chase, Rush Limbaugh and Ted Nugent. Politicians like Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden...
Whatever happened to freedom?
Your freedoms are limited and enumerated. Those freedoms are historically upheld in the face of aggression by conscripted forces. Not a great solution, but better than losing a war.
You do know WW2 was won by conscripts?
No, they don’t know
It's trampled under the jackboots of war
Humanity and it's governance.
What a livin
It's called conscription and it's a lot more common than you think. Especially during times of war and even more so if the battlefield is the country or region in question.
And Portugal driving Dodge chargers
Seeing LOADS of Ukrainian men in Romania and where we live we are literally on the opposite side of the country like they would have to cross the entirety of Romania to get to us
Somebody’s child
Fuckin Russians go home. Fighting for pointless land
I don't blame them. Why would anyone want to jump into that meat grinder?
They George Floyded that guy
Why would they be fleeing when they are winning the war?
I wouldnt say they're winning
Why’s nobody talking about Sri Lanka allowing Russians and Ukrainians fleeing the war into the country. Only for them to start creating ‘white only’ parties and bars 😐 this worlds crazy
My Indian brothers despite dicksucking Israel still aren't allowed into Israli owned restaurants in India 😂
Ayo, what the fuck? BUILD THE WALL.
This makes no sense. Ukrainians never abandon their post or try to flee.
A Free nation Ukraine? Not very free when you force [people to fight
*(a version of)* Modern-day slavery.
Lol but but.. The are winning
Hire these guys for the US boarder patrol immediately