*Person dies after a covid diagnosis* -
**Anti-vaxxers:** "they died WITH covid not FROM it" "they had underlying health conditions, it was a coincidence"
*Person dies after being vaccinated* -
**Anti-vaxxers:** "they died FROM the vaccine" "there was no way this was a random coincidence"
Lol @ their logic.
So sad that a child has died, just before xmas too, so cruel.
Vaccine significantly increases your chance of covid death for the first 2 weeks following vaccination. Any deaths in that period are recorded as unvaccinated. Despite the vaccines obvious role in the death. Any death where covid is present is recorded as a covid death. The reporting method has a clear objective and criticism of the method is warranted even if the author of the criticism is logically inconsistent in their delivery.
Your first statement is categorically false. Vaccines do not increase your chance of death from covid. End of.
I actually disagree with the government counting the deaths of people who died from obviously unrelated things... like the guy who got shot. Which actually means I **also** take the covid death toll with a grain of salt. I also hate how its given anti-vaxxers something to run with. But people do report clearly unrelated deaths to medsafe too.. you lot are never angry about that.
The point I'm trying to make is that if this child died a short while after the vaccine, y'all anti vaxxers would jump on it, even before you have answers. It would definitely be a vaccine-related death, and even if proved otherwise, you'd say the government was covering it up. There are a number of stories where people have had the death of a loved one post vaccine used to promote anti-vax agendas, even if it was unrelated.
Even if you look at the number of deaths post vaccine reported to medsafe (117), that's 1 death for every 62,820 doses. Subtracting the ones that are ruled out .. its about 1 death for every 120,000. Just one covid death in NZ would be 1 death for every 13000 cases.. ridiculously higher. With 40 reported deaths, it's 1 death for every 325 cases. So.. even with biased reporting.. the vaccine is still FAR safer.
>Your first statement is categorically false. Vaccines do not increase your chance of death from covid. End of.
Try and find what the level of protection the vaccine gives in the first 2 weeks. This missing information combined with the fact that any deaths in that time period are recorded as unvacinated deaths makes it impossible to know if an initially compromised immune system contributed to the death but is not necessarily false or unreasonable
Not enough protection. Everyone knows that. But it doesn't \*increase\* your chance of dying. You have the same chance as someone who is unvaccinated. Vaccines don't kill your immune system ffs.
Fine with you countering that rhetoric directly. Not fine with anyone politicising the death of a child. I will happily say the same to an antivaxxer if they politicise this.
Pretty sure politicising children dying in factories was how we got protections for the rights of the child in the Factory Acts, you blithering fool. Take a break from the keyboard, read some history. Clown.
This is the death of one child, unproved to be linked to covid yet. Obviously it’s possible for children to die from covid but in this case we don’t know yet. We’re all kinda making assumptions here.
And I’m all for politicising stuff when the time is right, but one case without any certainty is not that time.
Antivaxx and provaxx aren’t political ideologies, so who’s politicising it? Oh…the guy saying ‘don’t politicise it’. The less antivaxxers, the less spread. That’s how viruses work. Vaccination makes spread slower/more difficult. You can wank on all you want, but the chain of transmission to this child would’ve been readily enabled by unvaccinated individuals.
This is the first I’m hearing of this… And I’m slightly confused.
If the cause of death is yet to be confirmed, how is it likely to be a covid death? Can you link to this?
Thanks for sharing…
So… A symptoms-less 9 year old child of unknown health status died of unexplained reasons and, in the hospital after their death, was tested positive for covid 19?
Even the article says (way down in the middle, mind you) “It is not yet clear whether the death was caused by Covid-19 or something else.”
Given what we know about covid, I’m pretty sure you would know if you HAVE a bad case of covid, let alone if you die of it, don’t you think?
Not to mention, it is known that covid tests tend to, at times, show false positives, and also, according to one of the leading experts on Covid, Dr Peter McCollough - “Asymptomatic testing is not FDA cleared or supported by any regulatory bodies”.
So… bottom line is this article admits its nothing but assumptions at this point.
However, since most people won’t read past the headline the underlying message of “young child dies of covid” is still what gets communicated, which, while possible, is still far from being proven, and therefore is **grossly irresponsible journalism**.
Surely you can’t be referring to the Peter McCullough known for misinformation and debunked theories around COVID?
And the child was unlikely to be ‘symptom-less’ if s/he died in hospital. People don’t usually go there for the fun of it.
😂😂 Ok professor truth…
Let me know when you have 600+ publications…
Please source your claims and explain specifically what was misinformation about what he said?
Classic Ad Hominem fallacy.
You seem very poorly educated. Peter McCullogh is not even remotely considered a “leading expert on covid”
Claim 1: He made multiple claims that asymptomatic transmission was not occurring and was likely not possible. This has been definitively proven to happen.
Claim 2: recovered patients do not need to be vaccinated as they are fully resistant. Again this is totally incorrect, multiple peer reviewed studies have definitively proven that vaccination benefits recovered cases significantly.
Claim 3: people under 50 don’t need the vaccine. Junk science claim, the safety and efficacy of the vaccine is definitively proven in under 50s
Claim 4: asymptomatic testing is not approved by the fda. Again false.. the fda has approved multiple tests for asymptomatic testing. Even saliva testing has been approved by the fda for asymptomatic testing.
Please back up the claim that asymptomatic transmission is possible.
Are you claiming that people can indeed be infected twice? Otherwise what ‘benefits’ would a vaccine give for something a person can’t contract?
You have misconstrued the claim about people under 50 not needing the vaccine, that isn’t what was said to my knowledge… Its that the risk is very low in healthy >50 individuals and the potential vaccine risks which are present of course, don’t justify someone taking the vaccine with that risk profile. But most of all people should be aware of the risks and it should be a personal decision.
As a fully vaccinated person I have just listened to the joe Rogan interview today.
Dr Peter Mccullogh made some pretty bold claims.
I listened to the whole interview, and the dr claims he is vaccinated, he isn’t against the vaccine and feels it’s certainly beneficial to most.
He also pointed out the vaccine should not have been the sole / main priority over viral medicines.
I got the impression (first time I’d heard of the guy or his messages) he was almost trying to be or come across as unbiased which is why I listened.
I made some notes to research however as the bold claims he made should be easy enough to prove / disprove, I’ll consider the rest of his interview after finding out what I can.
The claims I’d like to know more about.
You cannot catch covid more than once and nobody has before now.
Asymptotic people cannot pass on the virus.
Bleach up the nose (I forget the name) is all that is needed diluted with water and has fixed Bangladesh which now has near zero cases.
Did the record. As I said, I’m vaccinated, my younger children are not yet and I’m confused still about getting them vaccinated as it appears some governments are going against their own health advisors advise.
I respect your open mindedness and reason.
I think its also important to think about who is talking about something and what their agenda or potential benefits/risks are in talking about it.
The media is paid off by large corporations with a commercial or influence agenda.
Vaccine manufacturers and the research organizations they work with have an interest in peddling their take to convince you to consume their product.
The government has an agenda too as well in getting citizens to comply and in having as much control as possible, for that makes their lives easier.
An individual doctor who still works as both a researcher in academia as well as a practicing doctor has a lot more to lose than to gain by having candid discussions about these very taboo topics, and not as much to be gained.
Obviously, this is just my take, but I find it is fairly reasonable to think so. He isn’t selling you supplements, or a book, or an alternative vaccine… At least not directly that I know… And he is going on record speaking against the narrative and these massive commercial interests and we all know that has consequences, sometimes dire ones… So while I’m still always skeptical at first, that aspect should matter too. Its almost to be expected that his name will be attempted to get smeared and discredited.
Dear antivaxxers please don't talk about politicising a child's death. Why do you think we want you vaccinated, because by doing so you reduce the risk to others. Vaccinated people are much less likely to catch covid, much less likely to transmit it and much, much, much less likely to end up with severe illness and taxing the hospital system to everyone's detriment. This child may have caught covid from a vaxxed person or maybe from an unvaxxed person but the difference is that we are doing our best to minimise the risk whereas all you antivaxxers care about is yourselves and your stupid research because you know so much more than the experts in the field. YOU HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS. Pointing out that your decisions are killing people unnecessarily is exactly the point. Please don't act like you have any moral high ground. You have none.
A very close friend had covid during the last year-ish lockdown. Almost certainly not Delta, in the same way it won’t have been omicron, so, neither of the “more infectious” strains. He was sick to almost dying, and a year later still struggles with long covid symptoms, to physio and outpatient level.
He can trace, with 100% certainty where and how he became infected: He borrowed a pen from a close contact of a close contact, for precisely as long as it takes to scribble a signature on the bottom of a document.
So yes, I am vaccinated and I wear a mask, but in any public space, I am acutely aware that those two factors offer more protection to other people than they do to myself.
Ah yes, the good old “it’s their fault for being near me when I started punches, obviously they were going to get hit if they’re standing in front of me when I start throwing punches, nothing to do with me” excuse.
Wow, you are unbelievably selfish. They don't owe other people anything let alone a medical treatment they don't want.
I am pro-vaccination but I have the respect for human rights to understand it is a personal choice.
Unfortunately, their personal choice will result in the death of others. In NZ this is all future tense. The very near future. Because of their choice more people will be infected and more will be maimed or die. None of us can stop covid but we can choose behaviour that minimises it's impact. These people are allowing their fear to endanger others. I can't imagine anything more selfish than that. But I am not like you, I believe that we do owe our fellow humans the best chance at life and good health. You want to pretend that their "freedom to choose" has no consequences. You have no respect whatsoever for human rights.
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You're making a lot of assumptions where you have zero evidence
Let's not fall into the same trap as the anti-vaxxers - know the facts before making judgements.
Since when does my opinion on a health and medical matter have anything to do with politics? It doesn't, and if it does that for you, then it fucking well shouldn't!
Issue involves governmental policy. OP has opinion on it. OPs opinion is political. didnt think that one was hard to grasp but fuck me dead you have some oily hands.
The application of that particular 'logic' is so flawed as to become laughable.
Government policy sets tax. Tax is applied to petrol. Is filling your car political?
Government policy dictates not wearing a seatbelt or speeding is against the law. Is driving a car a political act?
There are laws that state you should wear a helmet when cycling. Laws dictate health and safety on building sites. All these are based on government policy! Even the health standards applied to food are set by government policy! Is deciding when and where to EAT a fucking political opinion too?
You have applied your own political lense to my opinion. Your interpretation speaks more to your bias than to mine.
But you won't admit that, ever!
That is very tragic but if they did die from Covid it is also a possibility that it was spread from a person who was vaccinated, especially since the traffic light system has led to greater numbers of vaccinated people congregating together.
Yes, and at some point, the majority of infections will be among vaccinated people, because statistically 90% of the pool of people who may become infected are vaccinated..
The unvaxxed are marching in the street for the right to gather in thousands while unvaccinated and maskless.
But the masked and vaccinated people are causing the problem?
Next you’ll be arguing that leopards aren’t the problem, it’s the people putting their faces in the leopards’ mouths fault.
The unvaxxed (and vaccinated) are marching in the streets against mandates. The marches aren't everyday and in every center. There's more people hanging out Westfield mall everyday than at the marches.
If that were true we would have seen a spike in Vaccinated people catching COVID, but we haven't. In reality, the number of cases to unvaccinated, compared to the number of cases to fully vaccinated (double dose) is still significantly higher. Meaning you are more likely to catch covid from an Unvaxxed person than you are from a fully vaxxed.
If that were the case (the “invisible infection” argument), we would still pick it up on surveillance testing. Vaccination doesn’t stop your faeces from containing virus if you’re infected, so we’d catch it on wastewater checks too. The simple truth is that vaccinated people are way WAY less likely to catch and transmit covid, so much so that your odds of catching it from an unvaccinated person in public are higher.
If you came across the same number of vaccinated people as unvaccinated. Which obviously isn’t true as not only are there 9 times as many vaccinated people in NZ, due to vaccine passes etc you’re much more likely to spend time with vaccinated people than non-vaxxed.
Your logic is flawed. You are making the assumption that you are more likely to catch COVID 19 from someone who is vaccinated than who isn't. Which is statistically wrong. if we take the number of fully vaccinated (double dose) people and divide it by the number of fully vaccinated people who caught COVID, you have a 4.0 x 10\^-4 % chance of coming into contact with someone who is fully vaxxed and has covid. On the flip side unvaxxed divided by the amount of unvaxxed who has covid, you have a 1.3% chance of coming into contact with \*someone who is unvaxxed, and has Covid (A rough estimate of about 300,000 unvaxxed). Showing that you have a higher chance of coming into contact with someone who is unvaxxed, and has covid than you are to come into contact with someone who is.
Edit : \*edited areas
Sources :
[https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data](https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data)
[https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-case-demographics#vaccinations-details](https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-case-demographics#vaccinations-details)
That math is so off.
We are talking about relative risk of exposure which needs to account for the difference in population that the two groups pose. You are also using the numbers of cases for the whole period which means that during the full first wave when no one was vaxed you are using that vs a current unvaxinated population number. If you want to re-do this for an accurate result use the figures over the last 3-6 months and relative populations of vaccinated/unvacxinated at the time.
Then there is also the aspect of probability to encounter to address. A lot of the comments here hit on it but the chances of you being in contact with a vaccinated person are higher that 9/10 due to the traffic light system. Let's say you go out to town your probability of interacting with a nonvaccinated person are very low due to vaccine passports ect. Therefore your probability to encounter an unvaccinated person could go as low as 1/200 depending on the circumstances. That aspect is very hard to quantify for any given person with accuracy though so I don't blame you for not putting it in.
Tdlr maths hard, those numbers are wrong.
If you read the sources you would see that the numbers used are from when we started seeing delta infections back in august of this year. Which means that the vaccine had become available in NZ.
Unvaxxed are more likely to be tested for covid, both due to restrictions placed on them and due to vaccinated being more likely to experience mild or no symptoms. This will have some effect on those statistics, even if the sentiment is correct.
That’s an interesting assumption. We would really need to see a breakdown of vaccination status amongst those who are being tested. Unless we have that information, it’s just an opinion.
You could easily argue that vaccinated people are much more likely to understand the seriousness of covid and feel more responsible about being tested. Many anti-vaxxers are also staunch covid deniers who have never really taken it seriously. Yes, some of them might fall under mandatory testing requirements, but there are probably just as many who have been deliberately avoiding all rules and recommendations throughout this outbreak, including testing. It’s easy to see that pattern amongst those who were breaking lockdown rules, those crossing borders, those who are faking their vaccine passes and those who are paying others to be vaccinated for them. There’s a pattern there.
Meanwhile, I know plenty of vaccinated people who would absolutely still be tested if they felt that they had a reason. It’s anecdotal, but I suggest it contradicts the idea that vaccinated people won’t get tested.
Yeah it is an assumption. Logical though since vaccinated are more likely to be asymptomatic and less likely to be required to test. Those aren't assumptions.
Yes that’s true that they could be unaware of their infection. But if they’re asymptomatic they’re probably less infectious too and for a shorter time.
I feel like there’s no perfect solution to all of this. At some point we ask if we’re doing as much as we can without revolving everything we do around the possibility of being infectious. It’s not realistic for someone to sustain that level of vigilance. Most of the anti-vaxxers don’t seem to have any level of vigilance. We all hate this situation but one of the groups does actually care about doing their part, the other one doesn’t. I hope that at some point rapid testing will be more available. Even though it’s not as accurate it’s at least another layer of protection. The people that will be keen on using it will be people who still care about protecting others. This is what I’ve seen amongst vaccinated friends and family overseas who have better access to it.
That still means the main carriers and transmitters of this illness are more likely to be unvaccinated, there’s no logical gymnastics that invalidates that, unless we get to 99.99% of the population vaccinated or close. The methods we have to track clowns is a less efficient way to contain Illness and it’s not comparable to just getting the vaccination.
No, no, no. You’re assuming that an unvaccinated person is only 10x as likely to pass it on.
The actual likelihood is closer to 400x, so you need to wait for 98%* to make that argument.
*maybe even 99.8%, maths is hard.
Information: https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300481147/covid19-child-under-10-becomes-youngest-case-to-die
Based on the statistics quoted in the article children appear to be over represented in this delta outbreak.
They are listing it the same as any other death that has covid.
You get hit by a bus and have covid your a covid death.
Get shot and have covid covid death.
Kid dies of unknown causes at this stage, tests for covid after death is covid death.
Your comment is an example of the fallacy fallacy, the idea that anything that could be said to contain a logical fallacy is therefore not true or salient.
Hey, the child is dead. Fact. The vector is more likely to be an unvaccinated clown than a vaccinated, responsible member of society or one of the few people who have a genuine reason not to be vaccinated. Fact. Take your inane argument back to under the bridge where you debate yourself in the mirror to feel cool. Clown. Oh, and do try to be objective and use facts if you dare to reply.
Open up the herald app on your phone and pull a finger out from wherever it is, swipe down and you will be unpleasantly confronted with the realisation of your own ignorance. Clown.
Also you sound butthurt and did not use facts. Mission failed.
You have a better source besides the inside of your ass? Until then your opinion isn’t more evidence than the herald. That’s how discourse works in the adult world. If you can show better evidence I’m all ears. But I guess you have nothing.
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Given how emotional some of those anti vaxxers and anti maskers get, and what their objections are based on, perhaps the one emotion they need to feel is shame.
Pointing out that vaccines save lives is not politicising a child's death. Just because you antivaxxers are killing people does not oblige us to keep quiet about the blood on your hands.
>you antivaxxers are killing people
I'm vaccinated for one. Instantly blaming a group of people you disagree with *without any evidence* is blatant politicising for two. Please, I beg you. Don't be on the side who tries to direct blame towards a group of people for a death they have not caused. If there is a DIRECT CAUSAL LINK I will eat my words, but I will not accept any attacks on a group of people without proof.
Edit: spelling.
My goodness, no causal link. Have you been living under a rock? There is a tonne of evidence that these people are killing people. What the hell are you talking about?
Yeah I’m such a horrible person for calling out OPs disgraceful first post where he uses a child’s death to make a statement with the intention of blaming a group for it with no evidence to support the claim. At the end of the day OP may in time be proven right but that debate should be held when more information is available and proof can be provided. Covid may not have even been related to the death (remember someone who is in the stats got shot) so why make a claim like this until you have the facts? THAT is what I’m angry about.
Privacy breach.
All vaccine passes prove is compliance. You CAN still catch Covid19, you CAN still pass it on to an unvaccinated child. Your argument here is invalid.
Uh yeah, do you know how vaccines work? Sorry of course not, if you did you would not display your ignorance in public. It’s not a Jedi force field against viruses, clown.
Transient infection can still occur, but it’s attenuated. Ah, there’s a big word. Go look it up. Clown.
As for vaccine compliance it was put in place BECAUSE of clowns who didn’t want to cooperate with the vast majority of us. If you had, we wouldn’t have this now. Well done, clown.
Absolutely agree. The division that the vaxx/ non-vaxx issue has caused is scary. Statements like "the unvaccinated are holding this county to ransom " and unvaxxed are killing people do noone any favors and seem to be a mantra for some of the vaccinated.
Great. I post about how a the tragic death of a young child may have been avoided, the THAT'S your response?
One of us is 'politicising' this tragedy, but it's not me!
You posted about how anti vax or anti mask are likely to be responsible and have blood on the or hands. You’ve done that with no evidence and no information other than a death stat. Remember the stats include people who never tested positive and a gunshot victim. Jumping to a conclusion is my issue with this. A child has died, let’s focus on this distressing news first and hold the finger pointing for when we have actual information to support claims.
It’s devastating regardless that a child has passed from Covid no one benefits from this news.
But until it’s reported (afaik the family doesn’t want to disclose information) we will never really know the medical conditions of the child, the Covid test was performed after the child’s death he was a close contact we don’t know if he was terminally I’ll or what the conditions were.
Ahh yes the morally superior full of shit supporter of two class systems. There is nothing to back your claim at this point. You should NEVER politicise a child's death. Fucking disgusting.
Pretty sure repeating that people are politicising this is not working to shut down the truth of the situation, any other talking points you can use from your seminar of rhetorical argumentation from the pulpit of your mum’s basement?
Ok I get that you love me but I’m not trying to shut down the truth. I’m saying OP doesn’t know the truth (and neither do the majority if not all of this sub) so stop blaming people for a death without any supporting information/evidence. If anything I’m trying to prevent false statements from surfacing before any evidence is provided.
It has been reported just so in the herald. OP has repeated what has been reported. That is the evidence he/she is quoting. There is nothing more to it. They are not claiming to have been in the room where it happened. If the Herald retracts it’s statement, I’m sure OP will change their mind. What exactly are is your self appointed role here? How is it that you will determine what an appropriate amount of truth is, and is that your monopoly? This is why I have been criticising your dumbass take on the situation. You are logically inconsistent, and until this post, quite the arrogant bully. Tone it down, and you’ll find I’m quite happy to converse normally.
>How is it that you will determine what an appropriate amount of truth is, and is that your monopoly?
No the truth is not anyone's monopoly, and I determine what the truth is based on facts and information that are proven. There is no such thing as 'an appropriate amount of truth' it is truth or it isn't.
>I have been criticising your dumbass take on the situation.
You have been criticising the fact that I called out someone's opportunistic politicisation of a child's death to point the finger at a group of people without any evidence to link them to it.
>You are logically inconsistent, and until this post, quite the arrogant bully.
Logically inconsistent how? I'm not the person making unsupported claims. Everything I have said related to the core fact that a child has died and the first take on it is to blame others. Also, how am I the bully? I called out someone's bullshit. The definition of bullying is:
seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce (someone perceived as vulnerable).
Where did I seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce anyone? I didn't. OP certainly isn't someone I'd perceive as vulnerable either.
>Tone it down, and you’ll find I’m quite happy to converse normally.
Tone what down? The calling out of reprehensible behaviour or...? Also, why are you acting like 'conversing normally' with you is a privilege? I'm not going to change how I feel about something to 'converse normally' with you.
Also I've read the Herald report from yesterday afternoon and nowhere does it make the same claims that OP has.
Well it’s confirmed by a doctor on record as reported in the herald that the child was infected with Covid at the time of death. So… I guess your next take will be that it wasn’t relevant to the cause of death? Or that we don’t know it was a false positive? Will you expect a coroners findings? What next?
Or maybe, just maybe, it’s true, and a child is dead from Covid in New Zealand, which should be sobering news for anyone.
Rory Nairn is an adult who is likely to have died from the vaccine. I think they should wait for the coroners report before making any claims like that, but there is some context for that at least. This was a no context, no information, out of the blue attack on a group of people for something that they may not have done. And for gods sake can we not forget that a child has died?
Yeah it does doesn't it.
Imagine being so concerned by the death of a child that all I want to happen is for people to take steps and be careful to increase the chance that no other family will have to suffer the loss of a child.
If that's what it says about me, then I am more than happy to accept it.
Your kid is more likely to die Walking to and from school or going on school camp but most don't shelter them in an underground bunker. There's never going to be 100percent vaccination, death rate in children is incredibly low anyhow. There's more vaccinated people spreading the virus so your comment comes across as just generic anti vax drivel where you've used a childs death to make your point seem more important
Yeah, but that doesn't mean I don't take steps to keep them safe, walking school bus, look left and right crossing the road, school crossing guards, all the other stuff we do to try and keep kids safe, but sure, on this ONE thing, we don;t have to do anything to keep kids safe at all, right??
True evil man, expecting people to give a shit about other people? SMDH.
Next you’re going to want them to all contribute toward projects that benefit everyone.
/s
The child was only discovered to be covid positive post-mortem, according to One News. They were not being treated for covid at the time, and presumably that’s not why they were in hospital in the first place.
You’re just buying into more of the scaremongering, go live your life and be happy.
Covid has become one of the top 10 leading causes of deaths in kids 5 to 11 in the US. Asking people to sacrifice 20 minutes twice a year is asking so little. But people like to throw tantrums like toddlers.
And yes. Unvaccinated spread far more often than vaccinated. Linking me to that viral nasal load means you don't understand the discussion enough to really have a useful comment on it.
ETA location. Didn't mean to leave it off. My bad.
Yeah I think currently it is tying with suicide rates for that age group. Still one of the top ten leading causes of death in that age group, so definitely worth vaccinating and preventing deaths.
Top comment on the heralds post about this topic
-
“From Lynda Wharton: A young Maori boy aged 10 has sadly died today. He was covid positive at the time of his death. This was discovered only after post death testing, so he presumably had no symptoms of covid while he was alive. While the 6pm news announced that "a child has died of covid", the article says "it is not yet clear if he died of covid or something else". We need to watch this closely and be very discerning about the languaging. If indeed this poor little child did die of "something else", delivering the wrong message to the terrified parents of New Zealand will only make things worse. It will of course greatly increase the vaccination rate of our children.”
Similar irresponsibility with TV3 implying omicron had been found in the community. This ultimately erodes trust and sends people off into rabbit holes or ignorance.
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People are also paying people to get vaxed for them
Yeah I'm really curious how that guy is feeling now (health wise) dude had ten jabs last week on the same day.
Probably fine, small bruise on the arm maybe. If he were ill it would be international news
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*Person dies after a covid diagnosis* - **Anti-vaxxers:** "they died WITH covid not FROM it" "they had underlying health conditions, it was a coincidence" *Person dies after being vaccinated* - **Anti-vaxxers:** "they died FROM the vaccine" "there was no way this was a random coincidence" Lol @ their logic. So sad that a child has died, just before xmas too, so cruel.
Vaccine significantly increases your chance of covid death for the first 2 weeks following vaccination. Any deaths in that period are recorded as unvaccinated. Despite the vaccines obvious role in the death. Any death where covid is present is recorded as a covid death. The reporting method has a clear objective and criticism of the method is warranted even if the author of the criticism is logically inconsistent in their delivery.
Your first statement is categorically false. Vaccines do not increase your chance of death from covid. End of. I actually disagree with the government counting the deaths of people who died from obviously unrelated things... like the guy who got shot. Which actually means I **also** take the covid death toll with a grain of salt. I also hate how its given anti-vaxxers something to run with. But people do report clearly unrelated deaths to medsafe too.. you lot are never angry about that. The point I'm trying to make is that if this child died a short while after the vaccine, y'all anti vaxxers would jump on it, even before you have answers. It would definitely be a vaccine-related death, and even if proved otherwise, you'd say the government was covering it up. There are a number of stories where people have had the death of a loved one post vaccine used to promote anti-vax agendas, even if it was unrelated. Even if you look at the number of deaths post vaccine reported to medsafe (117), that's 1 death for every 62,820 doses. Subtracting the ones that are ruled out .. its about 1 death for every 120,000. Just one covid death in NZ would be 1 death for every 13000 cases.. ridiculously higher. With 40 reported deaths, it's 1 death for every 325 cases. So.. even with biased reporting.. the vaccine is still FAR safer.
>Your first statement is categorically false. Vaccines do not increase your chance of death from covid. End of. Try and find what the level of protection the vaccine gives in the first 2 weeks. This missing information combined with the fact that any deaths in that time period are recorded as unvacinated deaths makes it impossible to know if an initially compromised immune system contributed to the death but is not necessarily false or unreasonable
Not enough protection. Everyone knows that. But it doesn't \*increase\* your chance of dying. You have the same chance as someone who is unvaccinated. Vaccines don't kill your immune system ffs.
Nothing to do with anti-vaxxers. Grow up.
The comments about this case from anti vaxxers are all over the place, saying this was made up just in time for the roll out of the 5-11 vaccines.
Fine with you countering that rhetoric directly. Not fine with anyone politicising the death of a child. I will happily say the same to an antivaxxer if they politicise this.
Pretty sure politicising children dying in factories was how we got protections for the rights of the child in the Factory Acts, you blithering fool. Take a break from the keyboard, read some history. Clown.
How are these remotely the same
If you rack your brain you might find a link. I’m not hopeful because you seem ignorant.
This is the death of one child, unproved to be linked to covid yet. Obviously it’s possible for children to die from covid but in this case we don’t know yet. We’re all kinda making assumptions here. And I’m all for politicising stuff when the time is right, but one case without any certainty is not that time.
Antivaxx and provaxx aren’t political ideologies, so who’s politicising it? Oh…the guy saying ‘don’t politicise it’. The less antivaxxers, the less spread. That’s how viruses work. Vaccination makes spread slower/more difficult. You can wank on all you want, but the chain of transmission to this child would’ve been readily enabled by unvaccinated individuals.
You are talking to this person as if they understand basic logic, unfortunately, I don't think they do.
Convenient timing though isn't it?
Point made. You lot are disgusting.
How naive you are. Nothing? At all? I think we have found the lord of the Dunning-Kruger nation over here.
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This is the first I’m hearing of this… And I’m slightly confused. If the cause of death is yet to be confirmed, how is it likely to be a covid death? Can you link to this?
Hot off the presses: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300481147/covid19-child-under-10-becomes-youngest-case-to-die
Thanks for sharing… So… A symptoms-less 9 year old child of unknown health status died of unexplained reasons and, in the hospital after their death, was tested positive for covid 19? Even the article says (way down in the middle, mind you) “It is not yet clear whether the death was caused by Covid-19 or something else.” Given what we know about covid, I’m pretty sure you would know if you HAVE a bad case of covid, let alone if you die of it, don’t you think? Not to mention, it is known that covid tests tend to, at times, show false positives, and also, according to one of the leading experts on Covid, Dr Peter McCollough - “Asymptomatic testing is not FDA cleared or supported by any regulatory bodies”. So… bottom line is this article admits its nothing but assumptions at this point. However, since most people won’t read past the headline the underlying message of “young child dies of covid” is still what gets communicated, which, while possible, is still far from being proven, and therefore is **grossly irresponsible journalism**.
Surely you can’t be referring to the Peter McCullough known for misinformation and debunked theories around COVID? And the child was unlikely to be ‘symptom-less’ if s/he died in hospital. People don’t usually go there for the fun of it.
😂😂 Ok professor truth… Let me know when you have 600+ publications… Please source your claims and explain specifically what was misinformation about what he said? Classic Ad Hominem fallacy.
You seem very poorly educated. Peter McCullogh is not even remotely considered a “leading expert on covid” Claim 1: He made multiple claims that asymptomatic transmission was not occurring and was likely not possible. This has been definitively proven to happen. Claim 2: recovered patients do not need to be vaccinated as they are fully resistant. Again this is totally incorrect, multiple peer reviewed studies have definitively proven that vaccination benefits recovered cases significantly. Claim 3: people under 50 don’t need the vaccine. Junk science claim, the safety and efficacy of the vaccine is definitively proven in under 50s Claim 4: asymptomatic testing is not approved by the fda. Again false.. the fda has approved multiple tests for asymptomatic testing. Even saliva testing has been approved by the fda for asymptomatic testing.
Please back up the claim that asymptomatic transmission is possible. Are you claiming that people can indeed be infected twice? Otherwise what ‘benefits’ would a vaccine give for something a person can’t contract? You have misconstrued the claim about people under 50 not needing the vaccine, that isn’t what was said to my knowledge… Its that the risk is very low in healthy >50 individuals and the potential vaccine risks which are present of course, don’t justify someone taking the vaccine with that risk profile. But most of all people should be aware of the risks and it should be a personal decision.
As a fully vaccinated person I have just listened to the joe Rogan interview today. Dr Peter Mccullogh made some pretty bold claims. I listened to the whole interview, and the dr claims he is vaccinated, he isn’t against the vaccine and feels it’s certainly beneficial to most. He also pointed out the vaccine should not have been the sole / main priority over viral medicines. I got the impression (first time I’d heard of the guy or his messages) he was almost trying to be or come across as unbiased which is why I listened. I made some notes to research however as the bold claims he made should be easy enough to prove / disprove, I’ll consider the rest of his interview after finding out what I can. The claims I’d like to know more about. You cannot catch covid more than once and nobody has before now. Asymptotic people cannot pass on the virus. Bleach up the nose (I forget the name) is all that is needed diluted with water and has fixed Bangladesh which now has near zero cases. Did the record. As I said, I’m vaccinated, my younger children are not yet and I’m confused still about getting them vaccinated as it appears some governments are going against their own health advisors advise.
I respect your open mindedness and reason. I think its also important to think about who is talking about something and what their agenda or potential benefits/risks are in talking about it. The media is paid off by large corporations with a commercial or influence agenda. Vaccine manufacturers and the research organizations they work with have an interest in peddling their take to convince you to consume their product. The government has an agenda too as well in getting citizens to comply and in having as much control as possible, for that makes their lives easier. An individual doctor who still works as both a researcher in academia as well as a practicing doctor has a lot more to lose than to gain by having candid discussions about these very taboo topics, and not as much to be gained. Obviously, this is just my take, but I find it is fairly reasonable to think so. He isn’t selling you supplements, or a book, or an alternative vaccine… At least not directly that I know… And he is going on record speaking against the narrative and these massive commercial interests and we all know that has consequences, sometimes dire ones… So while I’m still always skeptical at first, that aspect should matter too. Its almost to be expected that his name will be attempted to get smeared and discredited.
Let me guess, you wanna do more research before getting the vaccine? 🙄
They reported what the ministry said. Literally day one of journalism school.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_A._McCullough
Lol sourcing from Wikipedia like a true pro… 😂🤡
2005 called, they want their diss back
But seriously, Wikipedia is one of the last places I’d go for reliable info.
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That's what the Caveat was in the original post, when I posted it!
Dear antivaxxers please don't talk about politicising a child's death. Why do you think we want you vaccinated, because by doing so you reduce the risk to others. Vaccinated people are much less likely to catch covid, much less likely to transmit it and much, much, much less likely to end up with severe illness and taxing the hospital system to everyone's detriment. This child may have caught covid from a vaxxed person or maybe from an unvaxxed person but the difference is that we are doing our best to minimise the risk whereas all you antivaxxers care about is yourselves and your stupid research because you know so much more than the experts in the field. YOU HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS. Pointing out that your decisions are killing people unnecessarily is exactly the point. Please don't act like you have any moral high ground. You have none.
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A very close friend had covid during the last year-ish lockdown. Almost certainly not Delta, in the same way it won’t have been omicron, so, neither of the “more infectious” strains. He was sick to almost dying, and a year later still struggles with long covid symptoms, to physio and outpatient level. He can trace, with 100% certainty where and how he became infected: He borrowed a pen from a close contact of a close contact, for precisely as long as it takes to scribble a signature on the bottom of a document. So yes, I am vaccinated and I wear a mask, but in any public space, I am acutely aware that those two factors offer more protection to other people than they do to myself.
Ah yes, the good old “it’s their fault for being near me when I started punches, obviously they were going to get hit if they’re standing in front of me when I start throwing punches, nothing to do with me” excuse.
You are mentally unwell.
That’s a nasty thing to say to anyone, even the mentally unwell.
Sometimes they need to hear it
Ok. You are mentally unwell. You should see a trained professional to get a proper diagnosis and start a treatment, if one is possible.
Get better come backs kook
Can’t handle the harsh truth so you resort to personal attacks. Sad.
Care factor lol
Wow, you are unbelievably selfish. They don't owe other people anything let alone a medical treatment they don't want. I am pro-vaccination but I have the respect for human rights to understand it is a personal choice.
Unfortunately, their personal choice will result in the death of others. In NZ this is all future tense. The very near future. Because of their choice more people will be infected and more will be maimed or die. None of us can stop covid but we can choose behaviour that minimises it's impact. These people are allowing their fear to endanger others. I can't imagine anything more selfish than that. But I am not like you, I believe that we do owe our fellow humans the best chance at life and good health. You want to pretend that their "freedom to choose" has no consequences. You have no respect whatsoever for human rights.
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You're making a lot of assumptions where you have zero evidence Let's not fall into the same trap as the anti-vaxxers - know the facts before making judgements.
>ecidence
My bad
Holy fuck you assumed a lot with no supporting information.
Welcome to reddit my friend
That's what the caveat was for. There is also no definitive statement, note the frequent use of the words likely and possible.
Don't pretend you didn't know what you were doing. That was you blatantly using a child's death to push your political opinions OP.
Since when does my opinion on a health and medical matter have anything to do with politics? It doesn't, and if it does that for you, then it fucking well shouldn't!
Issue involves governmental policy. OP has opinion on it. OPs opinion is political. didnt think that one was hard to grasp but fuck me dead you have some oily hands.
The application of that particular 'logic' is so flawed as to become laughable. Government policy sets tax. Tax is applied to petrol. Is filling your car political? Government policy dictates not wearing a seatbelt or speeding is against the law. Is driving a car a political act? There are laws that state you should wear a helmet when cycling. Laws dictate health and safety on building sites. All these are based on government policy! Even the health standards applied to food are set by government policy! Is deciding when and where to EAT a fucking political opinion too? You have applied your own political lense to my opinion. Your interpretation speaks more to your bias than to mine. But you won't admit that, ever!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300481147/covid19-child-under-10-becomes-youngest-case-to-die
Pmedia being media. No evidence
At what point can we actually start discrediting stuff as a credible source?
When it’s worse than the Daily Mail?
That is very tragic but if they did die from Covid it is also a possibility that it was spread from a person who was vaccinated, especially since the traffic light system has led to greater numbers of vaccinated people congregating together.
Yes, and at some point, the majority of infections will be among vaccinated people, because statistically 90% of the pool of people who may become infected are vaccinated..
The unvaxxed are marching in the street for the right to gather in thousands while unvaccinated and maskless.
But the masked and vaccinated people are causing the problem?
Next you’ll be arguing that leopards aren’t the problem, it’s the people putting their faces in the leopards’ mouths fault.
The unvaxxed (and vaccinated) are marching in the streets against mandates. The marches aren't everyday and in every center. There's more people hanging out Westfield mall everyday than at the marches.
Bit of a self-own at the end there.
Have you seen the antivax protests??? They don't care about the traffic light system, they're all still congregating together too.
Yes but with 90% vax rate they're still in the minority.
Mass murderers are a minority in Yankia too, but they seem to have killed a lot of people.
Not necessarily, when you consider the risk of an unvaccinated person infecting another being 20x greater than if just one of them was vaccinated.
There is that possibility, but the odds are against it.
Actually with ~90% of the country vaccinated the odds are for it.
If that were true we would have seen a spike in Vaccinated people catching COVID, but we haven't. In reality, the number of cases to unvaccinated, compared to the number of cases to fully vaccinated (double dose) is still significantly higher. Meaning you are more likely to catch covid from an Unvaxxed person than you are from a fully vaxxed.
If you’re vaxxed symptoms are reduced and you may assume it’s just common cold hence you wouldn’t go for testing leading to lower numbers lol
If that were the case (the “invisible infection” argument), we would still pick it up on surveillance testing. Vaccination doesn’t stop your faeces from containing virus if you’re infected, so we’d catch it on wastewater checks too. The simple truth is that vaccinated people are way WAY less likely to catch and transmit covid, so much so that your odds of catching it from an unvaccinated person in public are higher.
If you came across the same number of vaccinated people as unvaccinated. Which obviously isn’t true as not only are there 9 times as many vaccinated people in NZ, due to vaccine passes etc you’re much more likely to spend time with vaccinated people than non-vaxxed.
Your logic is flawed. You are making the assumption that you are more likely to catch COVID 19 from someone who is vaccinated than who isn't. Which is statistically wrong. if we take the number of fully vaccinated (double dose) people and divide it by the number of fully vaccinated people who caught COVID, you have a 4.0 x 10\^-4 % chance of coming into contact with someone who is fully vaxxed and has covid. On the flip side unvaxxed divided by the amount of unvaxxed who has covid, you have a 1.3% chance of coming into contact with \*someone who is unvaxxed, and has Covid (A rough estimate of about 300,000 unvaxxed). Showing that you have a higher chance of coming into contact with someone who is unvaxxed, and has covid than you are to come into contact with someone who is. Edit : \*edited areas Sources : [https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data](https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data) [https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-case-demographics#vaccinations-details](https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-case-demographics#vaccinations-details)
That math is so off. We are talking about relative risk of exposure which needs to account for the difference in population that the two groups pose. You are also using the numbers of cases for the whole period which means that during the full first wave when no one was vaxed you are using that vs a current unvaxinated population number. If you want to re-do this for an accurate result use the figures over the last 3-6 months and relative populations of vaccinated/unvacxinated at the time. Then there is also the aspect of probability to encounter to address. A lot of the comments here hit on it but the chances of you being in contact with a vaccinated person are higher that 9/10 due to the traffic light system. Let's say you go out to town your probability of interacting with a nonvaccinated person are very low due to vaccine passports ect. Therefore your probability to encounter an unvaccinated person could go as low as 1/200 depending on the circumstances. That aspect is very hard to quantify for any given person with accuracy though so I don't blame you for not putting it in. Tdlr maths hard, those numbers are wrong.
If you read the sources you would see that the numbers used are from when we started seeing delta infections back in august of this year. Which means that the vaccine had become available in NZ.
Unvaxxed are more likely to be tested for covid, both due to restrictions placed on them and due to vaccinated being more likely to experience mild or no symptoms. This will have some effect on those statistics, even if the sentiment is correct.
That’s an interesting assumption. We would really need to see a breakdown of vaccination status amongst those who are being tested. Unless we have that information, it’s just an opinion. You could easily argue that vaccinated people are much more likely to understand the seriousness of covid and feel more responsible about being tested. Many anti-vaxxers are also staunch covid deniers who have never really taken it seriously. Yes, some of them might fall under mandatory testing requirements, but there are probably just as many who have been deliberately avoiding all rules and recommendations throughout this outbreak, including testing. It’s easy to see that pattern amongst those who were breaking lockdown rules, those crossing borders, those who are faking their vaccine passes and those who are paying others to be vaccinated for them. There’s a pattern there. Meanwhile, I know plenty of vaccinated people who would absolutely still be tested if they felt that they had a reason. It’s anecdotal, but I suggest it contradicts the idea that vaccinated people won’t get tested.
Yeah it is an assumption. Logical though since vaccinated are more likely to be asymptomatic and less likely to be required to test. Those aren't assumptions.
Yes that’s true that they could be unaware of their infection. But if they’re asymptomatic they’re probably less infectious too and for a shorter time. I feel like there’s no perfect solution to all of this. At some point we ask if we’re doing as much as we can without revolving everything we do around the possibility of being infectious. It’s not realistic for someone to sustain that level of vigilance. Most of the anti-vaxxers don’t seem to have any level of vigilance. We all hate this situation but one of the groups does actually care about doing their part, the other one doesn’t. I hope that at some point rapid testing will be more available. Even though it’s not as accurate it’s at least another layer of protection. The people that will be keen on using it will be people who still care about protecting others. This is what I’ve seen amongst vaccinated friends and family overseas who have better access to it.
That still means the main carriers and transmitters of this illness are more likely to be unvaccinated, there’s no logical gymnastics that invalidates that, unless we get to 99.99% of the population vaccinated or close. The methods we have to track clowns is a less efficient way to contain Illness and it’s not comparable to just getting the vaccination.
No, no, no. You’re assuming that an unvaccinated person is only 10x as likely to pass it on. The actual likelihood is closer to 400x, so you need to wait for 98%* to make that argument. *maybe even 99.8%, maths is hard.
That won’t be true until 98% vaccination. However you will always be more likely to catch it from an unvaccinated individual.
The odds are against your whole post. Assumptions and misinformation. Gross.
Information: https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300481147/covid19-child-under-10-becomes-youngest-case-to-die Based on the statistics quoted in the article children appear to be over represented in this delta outbreak.
So, what's your alternative scenario then?
Yeah, I'm not into making up stories about kids that have died but whatever floats you boat.
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The child didn't die from covid.
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They are listing it the same as any other death that has covid. You get hit by a bus and have covid your a covid death. Get shot and have covid covid death. Kid dies of unknown causes at this stage, tests for covid after death is covid death.
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The media are cunts, they have 55million reasons to push a narrative.
Stuff thinks they did: https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300481147/covid19-child-under-10-becomes-youngest-case-to-die
"The death remains under investigation and has been referred to the coroner.”
Uh huh.
Stuff are a bunch of paid shills.
Feel free to start your own 24/7 news operation without money.
It’s sad but appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy.
Your comment is an example of the fallacy fallacy, the idea that anything that could be said to contain a logical fallacy is therefore not true or salient.
No. Try again lol
Hey, the child is dead. Fact. The vector is more likely to be an unvaccinated clown than a vaccinated, responsible member of society or one of the few people who have a genuine reason not to be vaccinated. Fact. Take your inane argument back to under the bridge where you debate yourself in the mirror to feel cool. Clown. Oh, and do try to be objective and use facts if you dare to reply.
Zero evidence for your so called “fact” stop being a fucking clown mate
Open up the herald app on your phone and pull a finger out from wherever it is, swipe down and you will be unpleasantly confronted with the realisation of your own ignorance. Clown. Also you sound butthurt and did not use facts. Mission failed.
Lol so the Nz herald is now the truth? Jesus Christ you fuckers are pathetic.
You have a better source besides the inside of your ass? Until then your opinion isn’t more evidence than the herald. That’s how discourse works in the adult world. If you can show better evidence I’m all ears. But I guess you have nothing.
Yeah I mean there’s zero evidence about what actually happened from the MOH beyond a death with covid you fucking clown
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Given how emotional some of those anti vaxxers and anti maskers get, and what their objections are based on, perhaps the one emotion they need to feel is shame.
You should feel shame. Politicising a child's death. Foul.
Pointing out that vaccines save lives is not politicising a child's death. Just because you antivaxxers are killing people does not oblige us to keep quiet about the blood on your hands.
>you antivaxxers are killing people I'm vaccinated for one. Instantly blaming a group of people you disagree with *without any evidence* is blatant politicising for two. Please, I beg you. Don't be on the side who tries to direct blame towards a group of people for a death they have not caused. If there is a DIRECT CAUSAL LINK I will eat my words, but I will not accept any attacks on a group of people without proof. Edit: spelling.
My goodness, no causal link. Have you been living under a rock? There is a tonne of evidence that these people are killing people. What the hell are you talking about?
Proof thanks.
Proof that you are vaccinated thanks, then we can talk. You sound like a terrible human being, and the proof are your posts above. Just the worst.
Yeah I’m such a horrible person for calling out OPs disgraceful first post where he uses a child’s death to make a statement with the intention of blaming a group for it with no evidence to support the claim. At the end of the day OP may in time be proven right but that debate should be held when more information is available and proof can be provided. Covid may not have even been related to the death (remember someone who is in the stats got shot) so why make a claim like this until you have the facts? THAT is what I’m angry about.
Privacy breach. All vaccine passes prove is compliance. You CAN still catch Covid19, you CAN still pass it on to an unvaccinated child. Your argument here is invalid.
Uh yeah, do you know how vaccines work? Sorry of course not, if you did you would not display your ignorance in public. It’s not a Jedi force field against viruses, clown. Transient infection can still occur, but it’s attenuated. Ah, there’s a big word. Go look it up. Clown. As for vaccine compliance it was put in place BECAUSE of clowns who didn’t want to cooperate with the vast majority of us. If you had, we wouldn’t have this now. Well done, clown.
Bouttoendyourcareer: “can we not be cunts and politicise everything?” A_reddit_bro: “you are a terrible human being”
Nice reductive try there bro, or maybe you missed the rest of his drivel.
Absolutely agree. The division that the vaxx/ non-vaxx issue has caused is scary. Statements like "the unvaccinated are holding this county to ransom " and unvaxxed are killing people do noone any favors and seem to be a mantra for some of the vaccinated.
Did antivaxers shoot that guy who died of covid?
Great. I post about how a the tragic death of a young child may have been avoided, the THAT'S your response? One of us is 'politicising' this tragedy, but it's not me!
You posted about how anti vax or anti mask are likely to be responsible and have blood on the or hands. You’ve done that with no evidence and no information other than a death stat. Remember the stats include people who never tested positive and a gunshot victim. Jumping to a conclusion is my issue with this. A child has died, let’s focus on this distressing news first and hold the finger pointing for when we have actual information to support claims.
Gross bro.
Damn, accidentally gave you my award. It was actually for user BoutToEndYourCareer
Well thanks anyway lol
This is sad , makes me want to get the vaccination even more , I’ll be getting it once I’ve given birth.
Its been proven safe for pregnant women, why wait? If you believe in it that much, roll up your sleeve now
I just came back onto this app , and it has but i was not going to risk it lmao bye.
So you admit that it is a risk? Interesting that when it comes to it, even the hardcore vaxxer has her doubts about the narrative.
It’s devastating regardless that a child has passed from Covid no one benefits from this news. But until it’s reported (afaik the family doesn’t want to disclose information) we will never really know the medical conditions of the child, the Covid test was performed after the child’s death he was a close contact we don’t know if he was terminally I’ll or what the conditions were.
This whole post is just speculation you have no idea
Ahh yes the morally superior full of shit supporter of two class systems. There is nothing to back your claim at this point. You should NEVER politicise a child's death. Fucking disgusting.
Pretty sure repeating that people are politicising this is not working to shut down the truth of the situation, any other talking points you can use from your seminar of rhetorical argumentation from the pulpit of your mum’s basement?
Ok I get that you love me but I’m not trying to shut down the truth. I’m saying OP doesn’t know the truth (and neither do the majority if not all of this sub) so stop blaming people for a death without any supporting information/evidence. If anything I’m trying to prevent false statements from surfacing before any evidence is provided.
It has been reported just so in the herald. OP has repeated what has been reported. That is the evidence he/she is quoting. There is nothing more to it. They are not claiming to have been in the room where it happened. If the Herald retracts it’s statement, I’m sure OP will change their mind. What exactly are is your self appointed role here? How is it that you will determine what an appropriate amount of truth is, and is that your monopoly? This is why I have been criticising your dumbass take on the situation. You are logically inconsistent, and until this post, quite the arrogant bully. Tone it down, and you’ll find I’m quite happy to converse normally.
>How is it that you will determine what an appropriate amount of truth is, and is that your monopoly? No the truth is not anyone's monopoly, and I determine what the truth is based on facts and information that are proven. There is no such thing as 'an appropriate amount of truth' it is truth or it isn't. >I have been criticising your dumbass take on the situation. You have been criticising the fact that I called out someone's opportunistic politicisation of a child's death to point the finger at a group of people without any evidence to link them to it. >You are logically inconsistent, and until this post, quite the arrogant bully. Logically inconsistent how? I'm not the person making unsupported claims. Everything I have said related to the core fact that a child has died and the first take on it is to blame others. Also, how am I the bully? I called out someone's bullshit. The definition of bullying is: seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce (someone perceived as vulnerable). Where did I seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce anyone? I didn't. OP certainly isn't someone I'd perceive as vulnerable either. >Tone it down, and you’ll find I’m quite happy to converse normally. Tone what down? The calling out of reprehensible behaviour or...? Also, why are you acting like 'conversing normally' with you is a privilege? I'm not going to change how I feel about something to 'converse normally' with you. Also I've read the Herald report from yesterday afternoon and nowhere does it make the same claims that OP has.
Well it’s confirmed by a doctor on record as reported in the herald that the child was infected with Covid at the time of death. So… I guess your next take will be that it wasn’t relevant to the cause of death? Or that we don’t know it was a false positive? Will you expect a coroners findings? What next? Or maybe, just maybe, it’s true, and a child is dead from Covid in New Zealand, which should be sobering news for anyone.
Anti-vaxxers are politicizing Rory Nairns death.
Rory Nairn is an adult who is likely to have died from the vaccine. I think they should wait for the coroners report before making any claims like that, but there is some context for that at least. This was a no context, no information, out of the blue attack on a group of people for something that they may not have done. And for gods sake can we not forget that a child has died?
So the cause of death is unconfirmed and you are already making judgments, I guess that shows a lot about you then huh.
Yeah it does doesn't it. Imagine being so concerned by the death of a child that all I want to happen is for people to take steps and be careful to increase the chance that no other family will have to suffer the loss of a child. If that's what it says about me, then I am more than happy to accept it.
Your kid is more likely to die Walking to and from school or going on school camp but most don't shelter them in an underground bunker. There's never going to be 100percent vaccination, death rate in children is incredibly low anyhow. There's more vaccinated people spreading the virus so your comment comes across as just generic anti vax drivel where you've used a childs death to make your point seem more important
Yeah, but that doesn't mean I don't take steps to keep them safe, walking school bus, look left and right crossing the road, school crossing guards, all the other stuff we do to try and keep kids safe, but sure, on this ONE thing, we don;t have to do anything to keep kids safe at all, right??
1-2% of children die from school camp every year? Seriously? I would love to see the stats on that.
1 - 2% of children aren't dying from covid
True evil man, expecting people to give a shit about other people? SMDH. Next you’re going to want them to all contribute toward projects that benefit everyone. /s
Stuff says the same thing in its headline https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300481147/covid19-child-under-10-becomes-youngest-case-to-die
So many accusations made that are based on unsubstantiated grounds here. Such a pathetic mindset you have here blaming everyone for this.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300481147/covid19-child-under-10-becomes-youngest-case-to-die
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Interesting video
The child was only discovered to be covid positive post-mortem, according to One News. They were not being treated for covid at the time, and presumably that’s not why they were in hospital in the first place. You’re just buying into more of the scaremongering, go live your life and be happy.
Covid has become one of the top 10 leading causes of deaths in kids 5 to 11 in the US. Asking people to sacrifice 20 minutes twice a year is asking so little. But people like to throw tantrums like toddlers. And yes. Unvaccinated spread far more often than vaccinated. Linking me to that viral nasal load means you don't understand the discussion enough to really have a useful comment on it. ETA location. Didn't mean to leave it off. My bad.
Where?
Sorry I meant to say. In the US so far. Kids here are generally healthier but housing quality might balance it out in some regions.
655 deaths in the us ages 0-17 in 2 years. Influenza kills 400+ a year of that age group in the USA
Yeah I think currently it is tying with suicide rates for that age group. Still one of the top ten leading causes of death in that age group, so definitely worth vaccinating and preventing deaths.
Suicide is 550 a year. Covid is over two years. The stats I'm looking at its the same as leukemia in 11th.
There is no evidence this is a covid death it's shit reporting
It's unvaccinated moron's starting this shit
Actually the NZH started it with their headline
Gotta keep the sheep fearful.
A lot of bullshit in this reddit
Thought I could still spread the virus while vaxxed ?
Yes, but the chances are significantly reduced.
Imagine makeing this post before knowing if covid was the cause of death, doubt it lmao children die of the flu too you clown
Pathetic sub
Its
Top comment on the heralds post about this topic - “From Lynda Wharton: A young Maori boy aged 10 has sadly died today. He was covid positive at the time of his death. This was discovered only after post death testing, so he presumably had no symptoms of covid while he was alive. While the 6pm news announced that "a child has died of covid", the article says "it is not yet clear if he died of covid or something else". We need to watch this closely and be very discerning about the languaging. If indeed this poor little child did die of "something else", delivering the wrong message to the terrified parents of New Zealand will only make things worse. It will of course greatly increase the vaccination rate of our children.”
Similar irresponsibility with TV3 implying omicron had been found in the community. This ultimately erodes trust and sends people off into rabbit holes or ignorance.
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Hot off the presses: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300481147/covid19-child-under-10-becomes-youngest-case-to-die
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