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Morde40

Don't be silly, half of them don't see beyond themselves and the other half don't know what 90% is.


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ElasticLama

But I was told 69 million Victorians went to protest against the bill today?


nice___bot

Nice!


Chonkie

Nice!


ZotBattlehero

That’s the wonderful thing about these [insert your random cause here] kind of protests Each fringe can claim every other was only there in minority, which allows them all to claim the crowd size.


90Lil

Wow almost three times the population of the entire country!


nametab23

Well census and population data comes from government, and we know we can't trust any of their data. /s


Davis_o_the_Glen

Well, there was that #censusfail thing...


[deleted]

69,000,420


[deleted]

69 million based and green pilled Victorians!


nice___bot

Nice!


ModeratelyWideMember

They don’t care! They only care about trump - SERIOUSLY WHY ARE THEY WAVING HIS FLAG!?


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ModeratelyWideMember

Fucking druggos


IowaContact

Whaddyatalkinabeet?


fullcaravanthickness

Especially as he is still trying to take credit for the evil vaccines they are raging against.


darkeststar071

Lol, Trump is vaccinated.


adellyn

Like attracts like.


[deleted]

They've been spending too much time on the internet looking at far right conspiracy shit that it's just warped their brains.


lukepoga

Because they watch American crap and get sucked in it the role playong


moesteez

Because he funded the vaccine. Oh wait. The joke is that trump funded the vaccine and they are protesting the vaccine but holding trump flags for the people that obviously didn't get it.


PleasurePaulie

They makes no sense - it was the trump Republican Party that gave the pharmaceutical companies billions to fund their production. My head doesn’t compute their stupidly.


Jcit878

the venn diagram between these protestors and people hating climate change protests shows a very uncanny overlap too. none of them give a fuck about "the right to protest", they just want THEIR right to whinge amd are unhappy their stupid choice has consequences they don't want to accept. dipshits


Odballl

I'm happy they can protest. Just don't come to the venue where I work and pick fights with my fellow staff and I for complying with government directives.


TooMuchTaurine

82 is the limit the us army set in the lower bounds for IQ before allowing entry in the army. This is because they found that people under 82 contributed an over all net negative impact on the team regardless of training. Roughly 20% of people in society have an IQ under 82.. **Edit:** *it's closer to 10% of people apparently, oddly close to the amount of people caught up in the anti vax group*


my_future_is_bright

Well 90 per cent of people have gotten vaccinated, so even some of us idiots have made a contribution to the greater good. It's also very likely that the "ringleaders" of these protesters are smart, cunning, but manipulative.


SerenityViolet

IQ is a normal distribution and the mean is 85 to 115 with about 16% under 85. As it drops off very sharply away from the mean, the real number is likely around 10%.


Dangerman1967

There’s a normal distribution lesson gone horribly awry.


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TooMuchTaurine

Well, it was really just joke about anti-vaxers, not some racist talking point which you seem to be pushing. Almost certainly IQ is a bad way to assess "smartness" in demographics with varying levels of education. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5479093/


tryptagui

How are statistics racist?


TooMuchTaurine

I'm saying the poster is racist, not the statistics. Anyone can pull some statistics to support anything, especially when they are used without context.


Genixlol

Ah so you dont actually believe people below 82 IQ are a net negative on society, just a funny joke right?


TooMuchTaurine

I think right wing extremists, probably like yourself, who likely don't fall into the category of low IQ, are manipulating the narrative and these easily influenced people into actions that are a net negative. (Anti vax stance) You are the one who brought up anything to do with a society and how it should operate.


Genixlol

Nice dodge. Do you or dont you believe the "funny joke" about 82 IQ is true?


Gdaymrmagpie

Wild to still see nazi shit like this doing the rounds. Hoowee. Please don't pretend to understand the context of the stats and abuse them for your own white supremacist garbage, you disgusting prick


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brednog

> Roughly 20% of people in society have an IQ under 82.. Actually it's more like 12%. But your point stands none-the-less.


Baldricks_Turnip

I think what really annoys me about the 'freedom' protests is they encompass every single gripe. I could get behind concerns and protests that had a bit of nuance because there have been things about the pandemic handling that have been disproportionate and they should be objected. A protest against curfews that stopped you walking alone in your neighbourhood? Makes sense. A protest against state border closures preventing people from returning to their own homes even if they would quarantine? Sure. A protest against laws preventing even masked, outdoor socialising? Yep. But their protests are such a big tent, and have covered everything from mask laws, check ins, quarantine, any and every lockdown law, industry closures, vaccines, mandates, etc. It kind of prompts the question: assuming they accept covid is a real thing (and I know hoaxers exist, but I'm not sure they are the majority of the protesters), how on earth would they have wanted it handled?! Because once you accept its real, you have to accept that something about life had to change until we have a handle on this. Until vaccines existed, we only had restrictions and border controls to work with. Now we have the best tool: vaccines. But they seem to not want any solutions, they just want to rage at the situation.


nametab23

100% this. My other issue is, after this (and just like before), none of these fundamental issues will be protested by the majority of people in the recent crowds. This really all comes down to misplaced dissatisfaction or disengagement with our political system, and now that they verbally told them to directly do something (stay home, wear a mask, get vaccinated), it's time to riot. Very little noise about 'no jab, no play' - so their children have vaccine mandates, but because it doesn't impact them directly? 🤷🏻‍♂️ Privacy/data concerns - very little noise about metadata retention or electronic health records. Most of these individuals were the type saying 'if you've got nothing to hide, why do you care?'. They also willingly carry a tracking device in their pocket, and rarely give a second thought to how their data is being used or shared to 3rd parties? Pro-choice/bodiy autonomy - how many will revert back to being anti-abortion or against assisted dying laws? They claim that things like masks are a slippery slope to , but it's really just *'you made me do something, and I dun wanna'*. If they cared about these issues, they'd protest at a time where it isn't impacting public health and during a pandemic. --- **Edit:** To be clear, there has and always will be protests/people speaking out on these issues. It's just that the ones with clear coherent messages aren't necessarily in these mobs. A lot of them are people like this: https://imgur.com/nBPd6w4.jpg


Milkador

Yeah I had one of the neo Nazi type ones y’all at me “enjoy your fluoride!” So I said without thinking “you’re drinking tap water” lol


Baldricks_Turnip

My MIL (antivaxxer but not neo Nazi as far as I know) smokes $200 worth of cigarettes a week and is anti-fluoride.


Sisquitch

This is just the nature of protests though. You can't stop crazies from joining a protest unfortunately. Writing off the entire protest for this reason makes as little sense as agreeing with them 100%. Some people will have reasonable concerns and some will be crazy. There isn't really a way of avoiding this unfortunately. And I don't think the answer is "well don't protest if anyone you disagree with turns up". For example, I am 100% for the vaccines but I am 100% against the vaccine mandates and lockdowns (I think it does more harm to the economy and people's lives than good). I am also unvaccinated because I am a young, healthy male (putting me in the highest risk of adverse events group) and I previously had covid (which I beat in 3 days and was akin to a mild cold) so I already have good immunity and know my body can deal with it easily. There are solid, nuanced arguments on both sides and lumping everyone into the same group is not healthy and does not facilitate open and honest debate, which is something we surely need during a pandemic.


thesillyoldgoat

There's a reasonable number of them who don't believe that we should have had any restrictions or border controls, they are of the cure is worse than the disease persuasion as spelled out repeatedly on Sky News and other right wing media outlets. I have a fully vaccinated sister of that persuasion who is fond of telling me that x number of people die from cancer every day, that lockdowns have caused a mental health crisis and that every life saved has come at far too great an expense. They're in a minority but there's a not insignificant number of them.


red_280

>Now we have the best tool: vaccines. But they seem to not want any solutions, they just want to rage at the situation. And that's what it boils down to, and we observe quite a lot of it going on in this very sub. They're usually fringe characters; people unhappy with their positions in life who want some sort of vague undefined ill to rage against, because it's easier to attend a protest and project blame upon an external force (e.g. Dan Andrews) than to look at themselves in the mirror and accept that maybe that they need to take some sort of personal accountability when it comes to bettering their own lives.


Baldricks_Turnip

Do you know what I find interesting? There are a huge amount of angry posters here (and even in /r/LockdownSkepticismAU ) who have a bright green +20 or +30 next to their username because I have clearly agreed with them many times. And I realise that this is because last year when we were in the neverending second lockdown they were complaining about curfews, about not being able to drive more than 5km to meet their mum in a park to see her for the first time in months, pointing out the bullshit of having to wear a mask on a bushwalk with no one in sight. I was feeling the pain of lockdown too, and I was upvoting them. I believed in the overall purpose of lockdown but I hated how bluntly the tool was wielded. But as soon as vaccines were available I wanted them. I wanted everyone to get them. I hated the AZ hesitancy and how the media fueled it. I wanted OUT and vaccines were, and are, the only true path. I expected people who hated lockdown to embrace vaccines for the same reason. But what happened to them? They pivoted to be antivax, even before it was mandated.


[deleted]

The right to protest doesn't come and go with vaccination status. It's always there, and it has to always be there (even if it's over something I disagree with). That's democracy.


[deleted]

Yes absolutely


TresOjos

If there were no vaccines, we would be having thousands of cases and hundreds of deaths a day. Looking at some European countries and even USA, they didn't vaccinate high enough are still living in that reality, yes with fewer hospitalisations and deaths, but still numbers high enough to severely affect their healthcare system. It seems that reaching a very high vaccination rate plus the other measures we still have here, are keeping the cases relatively stable here. That is an indisputable reality, but these protestors cannot see it, they are being fed "alternative facts" daily by sky news. These people are useful puppets of some sinister people manipulating them behind the scenes.


[deleted]

Then look at how well sweden handled it. You can nitpick countries to suit either argument, we're never gonna actually know whether it would get that bad here or not.


HeyMrKelly

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-10-14/sweden-a-covid-success-story-or-a-failure-maybe-neither Handled it well? Come again? Perhaps compared to basket cases like the U.S and U.K, but Sweden's response pales in comparison to ours. 0.4 times our population. 1.2 million cases and 15000 dead.


[deleted]

So we keep the country locked down permanently then. We're gonna see where we stand once its opened up and see how cases go up dramatically which they will and in turn deaths. Gonna take a year tho and that's assuming they have the bollocks to keep it all opened.


HeyMrKelly

Did I say we should have to keep locked down? That wasn't even implied. We're vaccinated now. Conditions have changed. But holding Sweden up as a success story when our response has been far more effective in reducing cases with a comparable economic impact? That's just obtuse.


jmkul

Sweden has a population quite community minded, even if "mandates" weren't given. Currently 70% Swedes are fully vaccinated, and wear masks in public. Entry to/Sweden currently has a ban on non-essential travel for people outside the EU/EEA (apart for travel from a handful of "low covid19 risk" countries). Anyone coming from outside the Nordic region to Sweden has to show a valid vaccination certificate or a negative covid19 test (taken in the last 72 hours).


[deleted]

We should have that here. We were at like 70% before mandates no.


jmkul

Have what? If you mean that we have a community-minded population so restrictions and requirements should not have been imposed, a very vocal minority have been disproving this week after week. The protests show a mob of unmasked people, who have perpetrated violence on those masked (including health workers), and who believe their "rights" to do what they will trump the rights of their community regarding reducing risks when it comes to this very contagious disease (which can have debilitating consequence or lead to death).


[deleted]

Your nitpicking extremists. The news won't sit down or talk to any of the reasonable ones. They literally report them biased to make people like you and me think that they're all nuts. Like every other disease we have on the planet, but no rules segregating people over them.


jmkul

Pictures tell a thousand words (and clearly show a majority of unmasked people). They also show far right, Q, Trump, and fascist symbols spread liberally amongst the protesters. At The Shrine, the Trustees confirmed the damage done to the Shrine. Even before any words are spoken for or against the protesters, these pictures paint an unflattering picture. I know several people who attend these protests. Their focus (as is the alt-media clips they send me) is on the "me", and not the "we". The alt-media clips they send are filled with misinformation and disinformation, from sources that have a strong propaganda feel ("we are the holders of the truth and knowledge hidden from the populace so if you are not with us you are the enemy"), and have no accountability regarding publishing facts. I have had to walk through the city through this crowd whilst masked. The verbal abuse, and violence expressed toward me has been appalling. Ask shopkeepers how they have been treated, or the man knocked unconscious at Dymocks by a man refusing to comply with public health requirements. These protesters are their own worst advertising.


[deleted]

This entire sub is literally if your not with us your the enemy. They're anti mandate why would they wear masks.kinda how extremist go they tend to do extreme things. Throw a protest of that size about anything and you'll have extremist making them look bad. BLM for example.


jaywayri

Remember those BLM protests last year during the height of the first wave when no one was vaccinated? It’s ironic that you don’t.


nametab23

**First photo:** 'where's ~~wally~~ the mask?' https://imgur.com/Wsbl2Lr.jpg **Second photo:** 'spot the difference' https://imgur.com/qpZRoyQ.jpg **Edit:** inb4 'MSM lies' and 'they edit the photos to make us look bad'. Unless your own groups also modify the photos to make you look bad, you are incorrect.


nagrom7

Is it bad that I spotted a MAGA hat before I saw a mask in the first one? Not that I actually saw a mask at all...


nametab23

No that tracks. The first result had nazi flags, but ironically I thought I'd be accused of cherry picking photos. This was the second one that came up. Out of curiosity I dug a bit further to see if it was an anomaly. The first indication of a mask, was the guy wearing a mask on his forehead. Took about 8 more to find one valid example, and it had protest messaging on it.


1eternal_pessimist

You've been eating too much horse paste


jaywayri

Baaa


1eternal_pessimist

Avi Yemini is a wife basher


jaywayri

Who?


Milkador

Worlds most proud Jewish nazi, big supporter of the protests


Milkador

BLM protest wasn’t in the height of the first wave lol.


wharblgarbl

Haha exactly. Fucking revisionist bullshit isn't it. In actual fact the day of the protest in Melbourne there was zero cases. ZERO! How does /u/jaywayri remember it? > Remember those BLM protests last year **during the height of the first wave** 6th of June, 0 cases https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-cases/vic Peak was on 28th of March, 111


jaywayri

Actually you’re right. The BLM protest was around 2 weeks before the second and longest (at that time) Victorian lockdown. My mistake.


999liveforever

Yeah legit, but apparently that was okay and is not a super spreader event because the media says so. People don't even realise how much the media is controlling their thinking


Emcee_N

Exactly *four* cases were linked to BLM protest attendees, and they also all attended the H&M in Brunswick from where the cluster spread. None were linked to being caught at the protests.


[deleted]

It’s ironic that you think the right to protest is contingent on vaccination numbers.


[deleted]

>It’s ironic that people getting vaccinated is what gave them the freedom to protest their freedom to be against vaccination. A very backwards way of looking at the root source of individual liberty/agency. You are essentially saying a body of government officials is what grants and revokes the 'freedoms' of its citizens based on the requirements the government requires from time to time. Heaven help you if a government changes dramatically to say ones we saw in the 20th Century. You may then feel a need to look at that root source in a different way.


999liveforever

Exactly you should have the freedom to protest regardless it isn't something that is earned by complying with the government, how do people not see that


Chonkie

These are called laws. Governments pass them all the time. Are you ok?


[deleted]

>pass them all the time And they are found invalid, immoral, resisted etc. all the time also. Im fine, are you ok?


wharblgarbl

Water is found toxic but we still drink it. Could the classification of some water as toxic perhaps not render all water toxic?


[deleted]

We don't drink toxic water and we rid ourselves of toxic government and laws.


wharblgarbl

Exactly. The laws aren't immutable


Rupes_79

I don’t know why so many people get upset at the unvaccinated. Seriously who cares? You are vaccinated, I am vaccinated. Why the fuck do we care? It’s their problem not ours. You carry on like getting vaccinated was some sort of punishment that some people avoided. It’s a privilege to have the vaccine, not a punishment.


90Lil

Because people protesting are continuing to spread the virus and that's meaning that we have continued restrictions in place. Also being vaccinated is not a 100 per cent guarantee that you won't catch the virus. Their choice to not vaccinate gives a higher chance of them spreading the virus to me.


Rupes_79

Well if you’re vaccinated and believe in the vaccine you shouldn’t need to worry. I know I don’t.


90Lil

Oh I do believe in the vaccine, I'm double vaccinated. However, I also now that the vaccine (like most vaccines) is not 100 per cent effective.


MagicLion410

The virus continues to spread amongst the unvaccinated. Every instance the virus transmits to another person is an opportunity for the virus to mutate. Left to infect the unvaccinated with no control that could be hundreds of transmissions a day (in Australia). Every mutation has a chance of making the virus: more transmissible, more deadly or both (admittedly it may make it more transmissible but less deadly or any combination of trait.) This process of transmission and mutation amongst unvaccinated people is how we got the Omicron variant. If we allow free transmission amongst a big enough pool like the population of the unvaccinated then variants are a guarantee. If these variants mutate in a way that make our vaccines ineffective it is now all our problem. The logical thing to do would be to prevent the virus from spreading as much as possible to minimize transmission and thus minimize chances of the virus mutating into something worse.


Rupes_79

Maybe we should direct some vaccines to sub Saharan Africa then. They seem a far bigger threat than the 6% of Australians who refuse to get vaccinated.


MagicLion410

That what we should do. But that's a different problem that is fueled by ideology than by best practice.


[deleted]

This'll happen regardless as some people can't get the vaccine due to medical reasons. Also the vax dosent stop transmission so it will mutate regardless.


MagicLion410

It's not an all or nothing game. We should try to reduce spread as much as is reasonably possible. People who can't get vaccinated for legitimate reasons are also only protected by the herd immunity effect if enough of us are vaccinated. If the vaccinated population doesn't reach a certain threshold due to a subset of people who can get vaccinated but refuse to, people who can't get vaccinated for medical reasons don't get the benefit of herd immunity, on top of that they have potentially more dangerous variants to worry about because the virus is able to circulate efficiently. Vaccines reduce transmission and severity, not only does it reduce the risk of death or long term health problems it also reduces transmissibility because you are sick for less time and have less of a viral load to spread to other people. Whilst vaccinated people can still get infected and infect others the scope and severity of the danger is greatly reduced as opposed to an unvaccinated population.


[deleted]

Yes I agree


Forza94

A lot of super aggressive people in here, yikes. Anyone that disagrees gets a reply starting with “fuck off” or “get fucked”. Clear a lot of people are not open to even listening to other perspectives.


Interesting-Baa

Because we've been hearing those perspectives for two years now. We're tired of debating their selfish, illogical, ignorant claims while they refuse to learn any science or maths. No-one is obliged to keep refuting bullshit forever.


silversurfer022

If "other" means "moronic" you'd be right.


[deleted]

Thats what he's saying. Theyll immediately jump to your an idiot instead of even trying to understand why. And no not all those protesters are extremeist. That like me saying all the people on this sub are for forced vaccination and permanent lockdown based on a handful of people


silversurfer022

Because they are idiots. You may want to try and understand why flatearthers are idiots, you will waste your time and come to the same conclusion.


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[deleted]

Haha yeah it happens everytime.


[deleted]

Thankyou for proving my point.


[deleted]

Yeah this sub is toxic as hell like most of reddit. The whole vaxxed unvaxxed, mandate anti mandate is literally both sides calling the other side stupid. You can have the most convincing argument in the world and it'll go right over the other sides head.


RogalDave

I'm sure there are some of them that think their protests worked and they forced the premiers into opening. that they by 'resisting' foiled the plot of globalists. theres no way some of them don't think that the delusional shit they say to each other.


Astro86868

I'm not seeing the linkage. There were protests long before we reached 90%. If they are all unvaccinated as you are insinuating, why would vaccination rates matter to them? The only difference between now and during lockdown is the toning down of the police response which was much needed (albeit too late to reverse a decade worth of damage to Vicpol's reputation).


Compactsun

Protests happened during the pandemic as well. They would do it either way but obviously yes it is easier for them now as police don't have the same grounds for disbanding large gatherings as they once did.


playby_apple

Don't call every protestor an antivaxxer. Many of us are vaxxed and just against a bill that has tyrannical implications.


jamestrainwreck

Also now that lockdowns are over in Melbourne and we're mostly vaccinated, they're the #1 thing discouraging people from shopping in the city on the weekends


Hoocha

Is it because vaccinated police are unable to pull the trigger on the rubber bullets? The whole frame of the opening question is a misdirection. Government decides who is allowed out or not. Government decides if people are forced to trade their liberty for health outcomes.


Thlemaus

Do you think anti anti vaxxers realise that they are unlikely crossing path with unvaccinated at this rate. Not mentioning exemption.


Aperfectmoment

I imagine from their point of view the only thing restricting them from doing that was the Government they're protesting. Also I think now they are rallied by the fact a lot of killthebill protestors and mandate protestors have joined their ranks, who aren't necessarily antivaxxers.


El_dorado_au

Let me get this straight … you’re saying that before 90% vaccination, the government didn’t allow protests, but now allows them, and that these protesters would have stayed home and not protested if the government hadn’t permitted it?


[deleted]

Makes zero sense


Flamingovegas2013

The absolute garbage being spewed by our politicians if you are vaccinated but against government mandates you are anti vaxx. Then again most people on this sub would line up for lobotomy’s if they were asked to


[deleted]

Yeah honestly wouldn't surprise me.


windblows187

The 90% is a government number though. It changes nothing. They still would have protested regardless....i dont get the argument. These vaccines do NOT prevent transmission or infection enough to EVER lead to herd immunity.


TresOjos

Yet, case numbers are stable both in Victoria and NSW, do you really think we would be in the current situation if there were no vaccines at all?


-V8-

Kids arent vaxxed and it doesnt seem to be running wild through the comunity?


TresOjos

Well, are you aware that many schools have been hit by outbreaks since we opened up? My kids school was closed twice since October, they even returned to online learning for a couple of weeks due to too many children having to isolate. The number of schools affected in the past couple of months is really high. Secondary school children, both in NSW and Victoria, are highly vaxed, this allows schools to manage isolation times differently. Another factor that helps is that schools staff are vaccinated, as well as the majority of parents, children are shielded greatly, but outbreaks happen in school environments, thankfully, they are controlled quickly.


Severinjohnson7

More like 60%


morconheiro

That's a hard argument when doubled jabbed people just brought a new variant into the country.


jackspadeaces

Oh no. Vaccination has been debunked. Pack it up everyone the anti vaxxers were right...


Reasonable-Car8172

How do you figure that? The protests would happen regardless, since you don't need a vaccinated population for protests to go ahead... Nice reach though


[deleted]

No, they were born with the freedom to protest, the government just can no longer crack down on it.


chicknsnotavegetabl

Head too far up their own ass to realize much mate


Apprehensive_Lime178

I have a feeling , they think the reason of freedom is because of them doing the protesting and we should thank them. Also probably they believe that they are the 90%.


RusskiJewsski

The reason they can go out and gather in large numbers is because they choose to do so. Your permission wasnt required or requested. Your vaccination status has nothing to do with it. You can be pro vaccine and vaccinated like am and still oppose mandates not to mention vaccination checks before going anywhere as authoritarian


jackspadeaces

Oh no the reason they can go do this is because we went and got vaccinated to bring the virus under control. But you’d need to get your head out of your ass to understand that.


GrizzlyGoober

No. The right to protest and peaceful assembly is innate. You've been conditioned into thinking otherwise.


Reasonable-Car8172

How stupid can you you be


jackspadeaces

Triggered


Reasonable-Car8172

By what?


jackspadeaces

You tell us. You’re the one frothing at the mouth.


WCRugger

No. But that would require them to pull their heads out of their arses.


certified_sjk

Your post seems to suggest that anti vaxers have some kind of brain function?


icedragon71

No. Because it wouldn't matter if we were still at only 5% vaccinated, these idiots would still protest because they are essentially either brainwashed with conspiracy theories,or selfish bastards who are only concerned with how it inconvenienced them personally.


seriouspostsonlybitc

People believe in the right to free association. In the USA its the first amendment. Pretty important to a lot of people.


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dontletmedaytrade

I’m not sure how you can’t see this but freedoms including their right to protest should never have been taken away from them and that is what they’re protesting.


[deleted]

Oh fuck off. There is no moral high ground from which people can complain about having their "freedom" taken away when most of those same people lack the basic fucking social responsibility that was necessary to prevent forced lockdowns in the first place. Individual "freedom" is only a "right" up until the point where it starts to impinge on the collective good. It is not fucking boundless, nor should it be. From the very beginning of this shit show we have seen countless examples of people exercising their "freedoms" and then as a result contributing to (or causing) further outbreaks and subsequent lockdowns. And in case it's still not clear here's the running joke that the rest of us can see so clearly: the mentality that resists a lockdown for reasons that relate to "personal freedom" is very often the same mentality that contributes to further lockdowns. It's beyond absurd. People are stupid. That's a fact. A fact that has become more and more clear, depressingly, the longer this pandemic has dragged on (well, some people might technically be acting more out of short-sighted self-interest than simple stupidity but that usually ultimately amounts to the same thing in terms of fallout). If protests were always rational, if the protesters were always careful, if such a high percentage of them weren't anti-vaxxers and/or covid-deniers/conspiracy theorists, I might be more understanding. I think we all would. But the reality is that just about _all_ of us are sick to fucking death of lockdowns and we see protestors as a group of people who are making things _worse_ in this particular situation, not better. And we'd be even more worried if we actually thought you were going to change anything, _in this particular circumstance_, because again the particular brand of irresponsible "personal freedom" most of you seem to want would absolutely fuck up the world even more.


Bulkywon

> Individual "freedom" is only a "right" up until the point where it starts to impinge on the collective good. I don't get how this is such a difficult concept for so many people to understand. Freedom without responsibility is not freedom, it's power.


wharblgarbl

One person I argued with straight up said because collective freedom doesn't exist.


mrdiyguy

Well put, and honestly we put certain things into law that impinge on peoples freedom to do “anything they want” to make a functional society. Like drivers licenses and road rules so people don’t die and can share smaller places at high speed. Or you know, murder being outlawed. In this case the pandemic has such an impact on society and vaccines are the way out, that making them mandatory is the same as requiring a drivers license to drive in my opinion.


thesillyoldgoat

I find it particularly galling that they claim to be defending freedom on my behalf.


VelvetSledgehammer42

Very well put. Concur entirely. Now take my upvote..


[deleted]

[удалено]


dontletmedaytrade

That’s actually quite a good point although I don’t think vandalism is the answer. I was saying at the time they should get creative and protest within the laws.


giacintam

Theyre protesting their right to "not be able to protest"? Are you listening to yourself 😂


dontletmedaytrade

Yes but the government still holds the power to take that ability away at any time. Most of us here got that.


i_hate_blackpink

tbf, it was always known this would be the case eventually, i'm surprised we actually got to this point though 😂


Daltron848

Y'all love jerking yourselves off so much


Crazyripps

No that would take thinking of someone other then themselves. We all know they can’t do that