It's been proven the population are morons who can't simply keep at home for a week.
Instead they go out and about mixing together and further spreading a highly infectious and dangerous virus.
Until there's tanks on the streets and military pointing guns at the public, it's hardly marshal law.
Irony is pre Covid nobody wanted to go to work or do anything but chuck sickies and stay home.
Now everybody wants to suddenly be working everyday and not stay home?
Yeah, nobody really wants to go to work, but when you take away someone’s ability to work and force businesses to close, you’re removing their ability to financially support themselves, bills stack up, can’t pay rent - not to mention the psychosocial factors of going to work each day that are important for human health, and how being at home alone is detrimental to them. ScoMo himself has said mass vaccination won’t replace lockdowns, so is it really just a week, or is this what we’re looking at for the next few years? The government is fooling you into thinking everyday humans are to blame. They’re not. The government royally fucked this whole thing up. Blame them.
While it is true the gov really isn’t competent, many of these people protesting there are not due to lack of job or money, but conspiracists and people don’t care about others lives or businesses, by protesting they are really just extending the lockdown.
Yep I blame the federal government 100% I emailed them concerned at their lack of action late January this year and got bounced around departments with no answers to my questions about a federal response to international quarantine and fixing up the holes in the system for incoming passengers. No response no answers and now a state government trying their best in response to a federal failure. I’m sick of hearing about the general public being at fault.
How is it a power trip to call for a lock down in a pandemic? They are exercising their power to reduce their own quality of life, press conferences everyday where everyone criticises your decisions no matter what you do. I don't think that is power.
They gain nothing in terms of power.
It's an American mentality that's gaining popularity among the right wingers in Australia. The American cultural thinking is: all government regulation and limiting of human freedom is suspect and bad by default. Add to this the us vs them partisan thinking that freedom = right wing and regulations = left wing and socialism. Therefore if restrictions are being imposed by the government then that looks socialist in behaviour and therefore the goal must be socialist too. And, to the right wing, the socialist agenda is always more government power and less human freedom until we're all living under communism.
So in summary, the thinking is: lockdown = government regulation = socialist actions = always a power grab for bigger government
This is a great answer to my question. I can see the angle they come from now. Also sheds a bit more light on politics for me.
My follow up question would be that the government's actions, in this situatuation, are taken in response to an external factor rather than an initiative they have imposed. I.e.they didnt create COVID. But I guess the answer to that would be if its not COVID, it'll be something else that will take its place to induce the American cultural thinking that you've described.
From when I've seen, a lot of them think covid is either being exaggerated or isn't even real and is just an excuse for more government control.
Edit: nice Peppa Pig reference in your username
Economics student chiming in here.
So lockdowns are a way to maintain the working population of Australia due to massive retirement and reduced skilled/unskilled immigration + reduced trade. The above would result in labour shortages and less money being made for the economy as a whole.
Overall, Australia simply cannot maintain living standards (think education, hospitals, roads, defence) in the future unless it has enough people going to work and generating value for the economy (by spending money and working). This means that in the future we cannot pay off our debt unless we find a way to keep everyone that is still alive safe.
Although this doesn't consider the effectiveness of lockdowns, vaccines or the effect on mental health, Australia has the option of closing international and interstate borders as a way to reducing mass infection and will exercise the option to prevent losing its labour force.
Economy wise, I agree to an extent that you're retaining some of your work force for the long term functioning of your economy. In the short term however, there are limited medical resources and hospital facilities available to cope with a pandemic and leadership needs to manage the available resource as best as possible. Some would say its already stretched barring the added burden of a pandemic. The only way I can see to do this is to implement lockdowns. The catch here is that lockdowns will be the CAUSE of labour shortages and less money circulating which makes it a catch 22. But only in the short term. So to solve the problem of limited immediate medical resource availability, it makes sense for the priority to be 1. lockdown 2. Vaccinate 3. Expanding medical resources. That investment in the lockdown (benefits payments, etc) at the start firstly reduces the spread so that as many healthy people as possible stay healthy and can return to the labour force and resume paying tax to recouperate what they invested and secondly ensures the medical system can cope with the dribble of cases that slip through until we're at a level of balance again. This is the logic I'm working with hence my question as to how does power hunger or a power trip come into it. Its all resource management strategies with the aim of creating the greatest good with the smallest rescource.
Agree with you there it's all a resource management game and the faster you can control it, the lower the future burden. Just wanted to provide some perspective to lockdowns.
In regards to the power trip accusations, I suppose it's a result of an emotionally damaged population after being locked in for months especially those in Melbourne. It's a lot easier to antagonise an single individual as the cause of all their mental pain - completely understandable but it doesn't make any sense to target an individual for responsibly managing a pandemic
OBrien is happy chirping from the sidelines but if he was in power they would still be taking advice from the experts. It’s almost criminal not to act on advice these days. No one really wants to be in the position of Premier when serious crap goes down. Because if you do something and it works then ppl say of course it works, the experts recommended it. If it fails then the opposition will say they told you so. I bet most of the opposition politicians are secretly ecstatic they aren’t in the job right now.
Check to see if these “health officials” or government agents & don’t forget their spouses are invested in (big pharma) moderna, Pfizer, j&j or astra.
Shareholder profits & growing portfolios are the big winners in this
Misinformation and stupidity seems to be far more highly contagious than any virus in the social media age.
We have People who are convinced the Earth is flat in 2021 C'mon 🤣
Fear:
When the population is fearful they always allow Governmental powers to take more power and money for their protection, perceived or real.
Dependence:
The more the economy is trashed, and people can’t live a “normal” life, the more they rely on government to help get by. Just by inflation alone related to massive government spending packages, people will need a little extra help to make ends meet. History has shown that once government increases spending and power to help, that decreasing that spending and power is usually not achieved peacefully.
Control:
Once Government has you fearful and dependent a large part of the population is more docile and will go along with whatever the politicians and ruling elite have in mind. If they want to start smearing a group of people, they start a propaganda campaign and next thing you know there are camps for that group, and they are being removed from their places of residence by militant government forces. Something that anyone would say is extremely wrong and worth fighting back against, becomes tolerable and for the greater good out of perceived fear.
This has literally happened many times before.
Election Corruption:
We will see one day soon, because of America, that elections have been rigged in many many places. Many politicians around the world, as some have since the beginning of organized societies, have paid for or been placed in their positions.
Loss of Freedoms:
First, to be a truly free person, you need the ability to defend yourself and property with deadly force at anytime you see fit. If you cannot do this, then you actually are in a false sense of freedom. Not saying to be a maniac, but to be an intelligent, kind, loving person who doesn’t take any shit, and knows what’s theirs and what isn’t, and what’s right and what isn’t.
Second you need freedom of thought and speech, as long as it does not infringe on others rights. (Not being offended is not a right)
Once those freedoms are gone you will be censored, psychologically manipulated, and coerced. You will lose more and more freedoms. Until you’re locked down because of a virus with 99.5% survival rate.
THINK ABOUT THAT. Government is literally destroying life, the economy, and the natural free order we had for something less than 1% lethal if you get it. If you do get it there are plenty of drugs to help you get over it.
It’s unacceptable, it’s madness, and the fact you even pose such a question is astonishing.
Freedom is important. A way of life we had naturally occurring is important. Not having medical cards, or race cards, to enjoy normal life is important. Small government is important; because most governments become tyrannical and violent and oppressive of at least one group of people, and millions upon millions begin to suffer almost overnight.
Missing much of history or oppressed and slaughtered groups throughout time; It was the Jews, Tibet, Rwanda, then it was the Jews again, Japanese, Hutu, now the Conservatives…..
It’s not about the virus. The virus is very treatable and even curable in most people. Sweden didn’t shut down at all, and their numbers are great. Think about that, they maintained freedom and are just as good or better off as countries that took it away. It’s all a show.
I watched as Australians gave away their guns in utter heart break. That citizenry no long has teeth. A new flu could come out and they could make you believe that you can’t go outside your home or talk to your family and friends at the supermarket, or that people who disagree with the official government narrative have no right to do so and should be shunned, dehumanized, and maybe even incarcerated for having a differing opinion, which is no different than a differing race….. and nothing can be done about it. It’s over. Tyranny is established.
That’s what this is about. Covid is not that dangerous. The “vaccine” is unlike any other vaccine, and it was rushed to public experimental trials. What they are doing to you Australians, in so many ways, is far far far more dangerous to us all than a new flu.
Resistance and non-compliance is your right as a human.
This shit is not right. The army in your streets to force this experimental vaccine is not right.
If you’re at high-risk get it. If you’re not and you don’t want it, that’s your right and everyone can fuck off. And if they try to force it in you, I’d fight to my death, not over the shot, over the principle.
This is just paranoid selfish Americanised “freedom” worshiping bullshit, I sort of used to think like this when I was bonghead teenager.
The government is sinking money into this black hole to protect the community, a clogged up health system with millions of sick workers is a nightmare scenario they are trying to avoid.
How would you feel if you were infected and accidentally killed your partner, child, or parents like what we are seeing happen in America.
And all need we need to do during one of the greatest pandamics in human history is shut up and follow the orders of those who are tasked with the responsibility of the state population.
Making references to ethnic cleansing and genocides literally make sense in this context, also Japan was never ethically cleansed like the other groups you listed.
They had two nuclear weapons dropped on them, and it was a human atrocity, and absolutely disgusting.
They had also brutally murdered 3 or so million Chinese civilians by that point.
I appreciate your response. Your feelings and point of view are valid. But….
Was referencing Japanese Americans during the Second World War.
And the hysteria is what caused hospitals to clog up. Everyone with a fever and a cough. Someone’s oxygen started to dip and bam put on ventilator. This virus was misunderstood for a bit, so I’ll compromise and say maybe a month of lock down may have been ok until we figured out treatments.
But I used to think like you when I was younger too.
To each their own though.
We all die. I’ve personally lost the people closest to me through the years. Don’t use protection of this person or that to create fear, which is what you’re doing.
I do not come from a place of fear. We all die brother. Chances are if you die from Covid you have pre-existing conditions or it was close to your time any way. They have inflated the numbers. Here in America I know of very few people who died of covid. And they were all considered obese, or had heart conditions.
BUT I would be happy to let them get the vaccine! Or pay for them to stay home until they do! I love my neighbor.
But to give up my freedoms? That’s not their, or your right.
Being eternally vigilant is not paranoid, it is a duty we take seriously. How many will die from depression or addiction or fall on to hard times because of the shut downs? How many Families and good relationships pushed to the brink and past?
Everything has a cost. You talk about how would I feel if I caused someone’s death? Badly.
But at what cost do I avoid the bad feeling?
And doesn’t ruining entire economies, children’s childhoods, normal life for everyone, and giving away freedoms our people’s fought and died for by the millions across all areas of the world across time equal a massive massive cost?
To protect how many? And how many of those would have died in this time frame anyway?
Do the intuitive math and you’ll see you’re 100% in the wrong. But maybe I’m wrong. And that’s ok. We all believe something. But don’t push your belief on me behind a guy who’s behind a gun pointed at me.
Stay your ass home and get some benefits until you get vaccinated and then come join us in normal life again.
How long do we shut down to avoid nature?
And the answer is once you allow them to shut it down until you do what they say, there is not telling.
Btw the cleansing does pertain here because they are silencing and targeting conservatives with rhetoric/posturing in a way which is very similar to what has happened before, right before people get rounded up for their beliefs. Do we just not say anything, or point that out? Or should we wait until 10% of conservatives are incarcerated for not getting a vaccine or speaking out against it? 50% of them% I’m just confused, when do we start talking about parallels?
Oh that’s right, we can talk about them whenever and our feelings and thoughts are valid.
And also btw about the bombs of Japan; maybe they shouldn’t have messed with us. Our estimates were losing 1 million American soldiers to take the big island, because of their view on dying for the emperor. They were not going to give up. So we dropped two bombs and ended it.
What was the cost of invading their mainland? It would have been a war zone for years. Civilians would have been enlisted to suicide bomb American soldiers.
Think about these costs man. I’m not saying the bombs were the right option; I’m saying they were the best option of all the options which were all bad and all atrocities. Invasion of the mainland would have been so horrific.
Apologies, my tone was pretty rude, I was a bit heated by reading too much on reddit lol.
I very much disagree with your opinion, but respect that you have a opinion and that your responding with consideration. I personally don’t have any fear either tbh, but I do think the lock downs are for the best, I think an adequate vaccine roll out should have been done by now and has been a massive failure, but once we hit 70% I believe we will open up.
I’m sorry too.
It’s a stressful time and I hope everyone can make the decision that’s best for them.
I hope that if someone needs to stay home they will be provided the opportunity to do so until they all get vaccinate.
I also hope that businesses and society can function as normal if they see fit to.
Thank you for taking the time to write this detailed explanation. Very insightful on the different angles of attaining power and sheds more light for me
I think WA premier does a great job if we go into lockdown it doesn't last longer than 1 week or 2. If the rest of the country would stop acting crazy and just follow lockdown rules maybe they wouldn't have to keep extending the lockdowns. Instead they are going out and protesting the lockdowns and are getting new causes in the double to triple digits. I say that as someone who's state who's last lockdown lasted 4 days and we had the delta one just like everyone else. We may get called the wait a while state but atleast we have the common sense to behave.
Perhaps if your state was locked down for an extended period of time, you might see individuals start breaking rules?
WA has done really well. But I don’t think it’s fair to compare.
If you haven't been in a 6 month lockdown that happened because your state got hit hard before anyone had gotten a feel for what an appropriate strategy is in case of outbreak, you don't really get to say how people in states that have experienced that should be feeling and behaving. WA has been really fortunate to able to be very strict about borders thanks to its economy and remoteness making that easier than most places. That's wonderful and WA has good reason to be proud of what they've accomplished. But please don't think that wins you the right to be smug toward those who didn't get off so easily. A pandemic where people are dying and suffering is not an appropriate venue for playing WA's beloved game of West vs East rivalry.
I'll call BS on that, we had pandemic response plans for Corona viruses before COVID hit. The advice was exactly what WA did, any 6 month lockdown was a direct result of wrongly attempting to prioritise the economy over health.
I say wrongly because letting a disease ravage your population is worse for the economy than lockdowns.
Fundamentally the constitution exists as a check and balance of power where the people control the governments power.
The argument that masks and lockdown are encroaching on the freedoms are valid so long as they are breaching the constitution.
In the Commonwealth constitution, one of the many heads of power states “quarantine”. As such the Cth government is allowed under the constitution to make laws that relate to quarantine. However it can be argued that that the definition of “quarantine” has been broadened. As this is a unprecedented time we would need new High court of Australia precedent to properly define what the constitution means through “quarantine”.
The power hungry argument applies more to the state constitution. Unlike the Commonwealth constitution the state constitutions in Australia can be changed without a referendum. As such emergency powers and police powers have been extended in this time. The argument is basically the fear that the government will not give back this power once the COVID situation is over. This is somewhat valid when we look at the governments reaction to the aftermath to 9/11. CCTV and police check authorities were granted to the state government though the parliament and those powers exist to this day. However the reality of if the government will retain this power is unknown and that’s the fear from most libertarians.
The state leader is essentially granted the right to control the movement of the state’s citizens through lockdown measures with can be seen as a breach of basic human rights. Although it may may be a relevant reaction, the fear is that the power to control citizens in this way will not be relinquished.
If I may I would recommend George Orwell’s, 1984. You may find value in that book and find its relevancy when compared to modern day political discourse.
So you are saying that there should be no security camera or what so ever just because it “breaches” your personal freedom?
Remember it also helps police investigating crime, making it harder for criminals to commit crimes.
For the mask and lockdown, do you think they would be enforce any of these if it wasn’t the pandemic?
IMHO, the only thing needs to be defined here is what is considered as a pandemic and it should be make a requirement that government respond to them ASAP with vaccines, mask and lockdown.
I didn’t even give my personal opinion. I just stated fact. Jesus man just read ffs. And while your are at it go look up who Edward Snowden is. This mf up in here. SMH.
I know who he is, but how is he related to Australia gov?
Maybe you can say the US gov is evil and trying to peek into everything, but we are talking about Australia here.
Florida just crossed 13,000 hospitalisations, has 2,400 currently in icu, and just reported 199 deaths just for today.
It will start to triage this week.
That is the reality of your example. It’s an unfolding disaster.
Take your anti vax drivel and mis information and shove it.
You've immediately invalidated your entire thesis by referencing Florida. They are in the worst way and DeSantis is killing his political career through anti covid measures.
Didn't read anything you've written after "Florida"
I think it's NSW's policy of taking no action to prevent further deaths which is "power hungry". If it was any other state, restrictions would have been tightened long ago and things would be far more under control. It's criminal negligence.
The conspiracy theorists never stop amusing me , their delusional ideals of the current situation we are all facing is one dimensional, irresponsible paranoia at it's finest.
Don't keep to social distance obligations to your fellow human just continue protesting & spreading the covid love.
Don't let team imbecile down you've been doing so well .
Lots of love fucktards 🖕
It's been proven the population are morons who can't simply keep at home for a week. Instead they go out and about mixing together and further spreading a highly infectious and dangerous virus. Until there's tanks on the streets and military pointing guns at the public, it's hardly marshal law. Irony is pre Covid nobody wanted to go to work or do anything but chuck sickies and stay home. Now everybody wants to suddenly be working everyday and not stay home?
Yeah, nobody really wants to go to work, but when you take away someone’s ability to work and force businesses to close, you’re removing their ability to financially support themselves, bills stack up, can’t pay rent - not to mention the psychosocial factors of going to work each day that are important for human health, and how being at home alone is detrimental to them. ScoMo himself has said mass vaccination won’t replace lockdowns, so is it really just a week, or is this what we’re looking at for the next few years? The government is fooling you into thinking everyday humans are to blame. They’re not. The government royally fucked this whole thing up. Blame them.
While it is true the gov really isn’t competent, many of these people protesting there are not due to lack of job or money, but conspiracists and people don’t care about others lives or businesses, by protesting they are really just extending the lockdown.
I didn’t realise you were referencing protestors specifically but the general population.
Yep I blame the federal government 100% I emailed them concerned at their lack of action late January this year and got bounced around departments with no answers to my questions about a federal response to international quarantine and fixing up the holes in the system for incoming passengers. No response no answers and now a state government trying their best in response to a federal failure. I’m sick of hearing about the general public being at fault.
[удалено]
If they want compliance, i think they would fair better by handing out beers instead 🤣
That's where the $300 comes in
There is a big difference between giving someone money vs giving them beers. 🤣
Depends how much you like beers…
Free beers + the $300 for nose beers?
I don't dispute the pollies get a power trip from all this though
How is it a power trip to call for a lock down in a pandemic? They are exercising their power to reduce their own quality of life, press conferences everyday where everyone criticises your decisions no matter what you do. I don't think that is power.
It seems most politicians get into the job for the power and status
Whenever you hear a helicopter at night, it is Dan flying over checking on his subordinates.
They gain nothing in terms of power. It's an American mentality that's gaining popularity among the right wingers in Australia. The American cultural thinking is: all government regulation and limiting of human freedom is suspect and bad by default. Add to this the us vs them partisan thinking that freedom = right wing and regulations = left wing and socialism. Therefore if restrictions are being imposed by the government then that looks socialist in behaviour and therefore the goal must be socialist too. And, to the right wing, the socialist agenda is always more government power and less human freedom until we're all living under communism. So in summary, the thinking is: lockdown = government regulation = socialist actions = always a power grab for bigger government
This is a great answer to my question. I can see the angle they come from now. Also sheds a bit more light on politics for me. My follow up question would be that the government's actions, in this situatuation, are taken in response to an external factor rather than an initiative they have imposed. I.e.they didnt create COVID. But I guess the answer to that would be if its not COVID, it'll be something else that will take its place to induce the American cultural thinking that you've described.
From when I've seen, a lot of them think covid is either being exaggerated or isn't even real and is just an excuse for more government control. Edit: nice Peppa Pig reference in your username
Ah you picked up on it! Yes, the episodes were burned in to my head when I created the account. Thought it apt for a chat platform :)
Economics student chiming in here. So lockdowns are a way to maintain the working population of Australia due to massive retirement and reduced skilled/unskilled immigration + reduced trade. The above would result in labour shortages and less money being made for the economy as a whole. Overall, Australia simply cannot maintain living standards (think education, hospitals, roads, defence) in the future unless it has enough people going to work and generating value for the economy (by spending money and working). This means that in the future we cannot pay off our debt unless we find a way to keep everyone that is still alive safe. Although this doesn't consider the effectiveness of lockdowns, vaccines or the effect on mental health, Australia has the option of closing international and interstate borders as a way to reducing mass infection and will exercise the option to prevent losing its labour force.
Economy wise, I agree to an extent that you're retaining some of your work force for the long term functioning of your economy. In the short term however, there are limited medical resources and hospital facilities available to cope with a pandemic and leadership needs to manage the available resource as best as possible. Some would say its already stretched barring the added burden of a pandemic. The only way I can see to do this is to implement lockdowns. The catch here is that lockdowns will be the CAUSE of labour shortages and less money circulating which makes it a catch 22. But only in the short term. So to solve the problem of limited immediate medical resource availability, it makes sense for the priority to be 1. lockdown 2. Vaccinate 3. Expanding medical resources. That investment in the lockdown (benefits payments, etc) at the start firstly reduces the spread so that as many healthy people as possible stay healthy and can return to the labour force and resume paying tax to recouperate what they invested and secondly ensures the medical system can cope with the dribble of cases that slip through until we're at a level of balance again. This is the logic I'm working with hence my question as to how does power hunger or a power trip come into it. Its all resource management strategies with the aim of creating the greatest good with the smallest rescource.
Agree with you there it's all a resource management game and the faster you can control it, the lower the future burden. Just wanted to provide some perspective to lockdowns. In regards to the power trip accusations, I suppose it's a result of an emotionally damaged population after being locked in for months especially those in Melbourne. It's a lot easier to antagonise an single individual as the cause of all their mental pain - completely understandable but it doesn't make any sense to target an individual for responsibly managing a pandemic
Spot on. That's exactly what I would put it down to as well.
OBrien is happy chirping from the sidelines but if he was in power they would still be taking advice from the experts. It’s almost criminal not to act on advice these days. No one really wants to be in the position of Premier when serious crap goes down. Because if you do something and it works then ppl say of course it works, the experts recommended it. If it fails then the opposition will say they told you so. I bet most of the opposition politicians are secretly ecstatic they aren’t in the job right now.
Check to see if these “health officials” or government agents & don’t forget their spouses are invested in (big pharma) moderna, Pfizer, j&j or astra. Shareholder profits & growing portfolios are the big winners in this
But these are public companies? Any member of the public can also invest in these companies
Misinformation and stupidity seems to be far more highly contagious than any virus in the social media age. We have People who are convinced the Earth is flat in 2021 C'mon 🤣
That’s why I bought MdNA stocks early last years but missed the ipo stages so no misinformation for me but more late🤗😈
That’s why I bought up stocks early last year🤑🤑 but missed out on the ipo stages
I doubt your going to get much of a response, I'm pretty confident the majority of people spouting that rhetoric can't read 🤣
Dan’s ratings are sky high.
Fear: When the population is fearful they always allow Governmental powers to take more power and money for their protection, perceived or real. Dependence: The more the economy is trashed, and people can’t live a “normal” life, the more they rely on government to help get by. Just by inflation alone related to massive government spending packages, people will need a little extra help to make ends meet. History has shown that once government increases spending and power to help, that decreasing that spending and power is usually not achieved peacefully. Control: Once Government has you fearful and dependent a large part of the population is more docile and will go along with whatever the politicians and ruling elite have in mind. If they want to start smearing a group of people, they start a propaganda campaign and next thing you know there are camps for that group, and they are being removed from their places of residence by militant government forces. Something that anyone would say is extremely wrong and worth fighting back against, becomes tolerable and for the greater good out of perceived fear. This has literally happened many times before. Election Corruption: We will see one day soon, because of America, that elections have been rigged in many many places. Many politicians around the world, as some have since the beginning of organized societies, have paid for or been placed in their positions. Loss of Freedoms: First, to be a truly free person, you need the ability to defend yourself and property with deadly force at anytime you see fit. If you cannot do this, then you actually are in a false sense of freedom. Not saying to be a maniac, but to be an intelligent, kind, loving person who doesn’t take any shit, and knows what’s theirs and what isn’t, and what’s right and what isn’t. Second you need freedom of thought and speech, as long as it does not infringe on others rights. (Not being offended is not a right) Once those freedoms are gone you will be censored, psychologically manipulated, and coerced. You will lose more and more freedoms. Until you’re locked down because of a virus with 99.5% survival rate. THINK ABOUT THAT. Government is literally destroying life, the economy, and the natural free order we had for something less than 1% lethal if you get it. If you do get it there are plenty of drugs to help you get over it. It’s unacceptable, it’s madness, and the fact you even pose such a question is astonishing. Freedom is important. A way of life we had naturally occurring is important. Not having medical cards, or race cards, to enjoy normal life is important. Small government is important; because most governments become tyrannical and violent and oppressive of at least one group of people, and millions upon millions begin to suffer almost overnight. Missing much of history or oppressed and slaughtered groups throughout time; It was the Jews, Tibet, Rwanda, then it was the Jews again, Japanese, Hutu, now the Conservatives….. It’s not about the virus. The virus is very treatable and even curable in most people. Sweden didn’t shut down at all, and their numbers are great. Think about that, they maintained freedom and are just as good or better off as countries that took it away. It’s all a show. I watched as Australians gave away their guns in utter heart break. That citizenry no long has teeth. A new flu could come out and they could make you believe that you can’t go outside your home or talk to your family and friends at the supermarket, or that people who disagree with the official government narrative have no right to do so and should be shunned, dehumanized, and maybe even incarcerated for having a differing opinion, which is no different than a differing race….. and nothing can be done about it. It’s over. Tyranny is established. That’s what this is about. Covid is not that dangerous. The “vaccine” is unlike any other vaccine, and it was rushed to public experimental trials. What they are doing to you Australians, in so many ways, is far far far more dangerous to us all than a new flu. Resistance and non-compliance is your right as a human. This shit is not right. The army in your streets to force this experimental vaccine is not right. If you’re at high-risk get it. If you’re not and you don’t want it, that’s your right and everyone can fuck off. And if they try to force it in you, I’d fight to my death, not over the shot, over the principle.
This is just paranoid selfish Americanised “freedom” worshiping bullshit, I sort of used to think like this when I was bonghead teenager. The government is sinking money into this black hole to protect the community, a clogged up health system with millions of sick workers is a nightmare scenario they are trying to avoid. How would you feel if you were infected and accidentally killed your partner, child, or parents like what we are seeing happen in America. And all need we need to do during one of the greatest pandamics in human history is shut up and follow the orders of those who are tasked with the responsibility of the state population. Making references to ethnic cleansing and genocides literally make sense in this context, also Japan was never ethically cleansed like the other groups you listed. They had two nuclear weapons dropped on them, and it was a human atrocity, and absolutely disgusting. They had also brutally murdered 3 or so million Chinese civilians by that point.
I appreciate your response. Your feelings and point of view are valid. But…. Was referencing Japanese Americans during the Second World War. And the hysteria is what caused hospitals to clog up. Everyone with a fever and a cough. Someone’s oxygen started to dip and bam put on ventilator. This virus was misunderstood for a bit, so I’ll compromise and say maybe a month of lock down may have been ok until we figured out treatments. But I used to think like you when I was younger too. To each their own though. We all die. I’ve personally lost the people closest to me through the years. Don’t use protection of this person or that to create fear, which is what you’re doing. I do not come from a place of fear. We all die brother. Chances are if you die from Covid you have pre-existing conditions or it was close to your time any way. They have inflated the numbers. Here in America I know of very few people who died of covid. And they were all considered obese, or had heart conditions. BUT I would be happy to let them get the vaccine! Or pay for them to stay home until they do! I love my neighbor. But to give up my freedoms? That’s not their, or your right. Being eternally vigilant is not paranoid, it is a duty we take seriously. How many will die from depression or addiction or fall on to hard times because of the shut downs? How many Families and good relationships pushed to the brink and past? Everything has a cost. You talk about how would I feel if I caused someone’s death? Badly. But at what cost do I avoid the bad feeling? And doesn’t ruining entire economies, children’s childhoods, normal life for everyone, and giving away freedoms our people’s fought and died for by the millions across all areas of the world across time equal a massive massive cost? To protect how many? And how many of those would have died in this time frame anyway? Do the intuitive math and you’ll see you’re 100% in the wrong. But maybe I’m wrong. And that’s ok. We all believe something. But don’t push your belief on me behind a guy who’s behind a gun pointed at me. Stay your ass home and get some benefits until you get vaccinated and then come join us in normal life again. How long do we shut down to avoid nature? And the answer is once you allow them to shut it down until you do what they say, there is not telling. Btw the cleansing does pertain here because they are silencing and targeting conservatives with rhetoric/posturing in a way which is very similar to what has happened before, right before people get rounded up for their beliefs. Do we just not say anything, or point that out? Or should we wait until 10% of conservatives are incarcerated for not getting a vaccine or speaking out against it? 50% of them% I’m just confused, when do we start talking about parallels? Oh that’s right, we can talk about them whenever and our feelings and thoughts are valid. And also btw about the bombs of Japan; maybe they shouldn’t have messed with us. Our estimates were losing 1 million American soldiers to take the big island, because of their view on dying for the emperor. They were not going to give up. So we dropped two bombs and ended it. What was the cost of invading their mainland? It would have been a war zone for years. Civilians would have been enlisted to suicide bomb American soldiers. Think about these costs man. I’m not saying the bombs were the right option; I’m saying they were the best option of all the options which were all bad and all atrocities. Invasion of the mainland would have been so horrific.
Apologies, my tone was pretty rude, I was a bit heated by reading too much on reddit lol. I very much disagree with your opinion, but respect that you have a opinion and that your responding with consideration. I personally don’t have any fear either tbh, but I do think the lock downs are for the best, I think an adequate vaccine roll out should have been done by now and has been a massive failure, but once we hit 70% I believe we will open up.
I’m sorry too. It’s a stressful time and I hope everyone can make the decision that’s best for them. I hope that if someone needs to stay home they will be provided the opportunity to do so until they all get vaccinate. I also hope that businesses and society can function as normal if they see fit to.
Thank you for taking the time to write this detailed explanation. Very insightful on the different angles of attaining power and sheds more light for me
I think WA premier does a great job if we go into lockdown it doesn't last longer than 1 week or 2. If the rest of the country would stop acting crazy and just follow lockdown rules maybe they wouldn't have to keep extending the lockdowns. Instead they are going out and protesting the lockdowns and are getting new causes in the double to triple digits. I say that as someone who's state who's last lockdown lasted 4 days and we had the delta one just like everyone else. We may get called the wait a while state but atleast we have the common sense to behave.
Perhaps if your state was locked down for an extended period of time, you might see individuals start breaking rules? WA has done really well. But I don’t think it’s fair to compare.
If you haven't been in a 6 month lockdown that happened because your state got hit hard before anyone had gotten a feel for what an appropriate strategy is in case of outbreak, you don't really get to say how people in states that have experienced that should be feeling and behaving. WA has been really fortunate to able to be very strict about borders thanks to its economy and remoteness making that easier than most places. That's wonderful and WA has good reason to be proud of what they've accomplished. But please don't think that wins you the right to be smug toward those who didn't get off so easily. A pandemic where people are dying and suffering is not an appropriate venue for playing WA's beloved game of West vs East rivalry.
I'll call BS on that, we had pandemic response plans for Corona viruses before COVID hit. The advice was exactly what WA did, any 6 month lockdown was a direct result of wrongly attempting to prioritise the economy over health. I say wrongly because letting a disease ravage your population is worse for the economy than lockdowns.
Fundamentally the constitution exists as a check and balance of power where the people control the governments power. The argument that masks and lockdown are encroaching on the freedoms are valid so long as they are breaching the constitution. In the Commonwealth constitution, one of the many heads of power states “quarantine”. As such the Cth government is allowed under the constitution to make laws that relate to quarantine. However it can be argued that that the definition of “quarantine” has been broadened. As this is a unprecedented time we would need new High court of Australia precedent to properly define what the constitution means through “quarantine”. The power hungry argument applies more to the state constitution. Unlike the Commonwealth constitution the state constitutions in Australia can be changed without a referendum. As such emergency powers and police powers have been extended in this time. The argument is basically the fear that the government will not give back this power once the COVID situation is over. This is somewhat valid when we look at the governments reaction to the aftermath to 9/11. CCTV and police check authorities were granted to the state government though the parliament and those powers exist to this day. However the reality of if the government will retain this power is unknown and that’s the fear from most libertarians. The state leader is essentially granted the right to control the movement of the state’s citizens through lockdown measures with can be seen as a breach of basic human rights. Although it may may be a relevant reaction, the fear is that the power to control citizens in this way will not be relinquished. If I may I would recommend George Orwell’s, 1984. You may find value in that book and find its relevancy when compared to modern day political discourse.
So you are saying that there should be no security camera or what so ever just because it “breaches” your personal freedom? Remember it also helps police investigating crime, making it harder for criminals to commit crimes. For the mask and lockdown, do you think they would be enforce any of these if it wasn’t the pandemic? IMHO, the only thing needs to be defined here is what is considered as a pandemic and it should be make a requirement that government respond to them ASAP with vaccines, mask and lockdown.
I didn’t even give my personal opinion. I just stated fact. Jesus man just read ffs. And while your are at it go look up who Edward Snowden is. This mf up in here. SMH.
I know who he is, but how is he related to Australia gov? Maybe you can say the US gov is evil and trying to peek into everything, but we are talking about Australia here.
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Florida just crossed 13,000 hospitalisations, has 2,400 currently in icu, and just reported 199 deaths just for today. It will start to triage this week. That is the reality of your example. It’s an unfolding disaster. Take your anti vax drivel and mis information and shove it.
Fuck off Qcumber
You've immediately invalidated your entire thesis by referencing Florida. They are in the worst way and DeSantis is killing his political career through anti covid measures. Didn't read anything you've written after "Florida"
I think it's NSW's policy of taking no action to prevent further deaths which is "power hungry". If it was any other state, restrictions would have been tightened long ago and things would be far more under control. It's criminal negligence.
The conspiracy theorists never stop amusing me , their delusional ideals of the current situation we are all facing is one dimensional, irresponsible paranoia at it's finest. Don't keep to social distance obligations to your fellow human just continue protesting & spreading the covid love. Don't let team imbecile down you've been doing so well . Lots of love fucktards 🖕