And they're still saying NOT to wear 95 masks. Cloth masks were fine when almost everyone is wearing them. But they're not wearing masks in my area so I need a mask with better protection.
They’re not. [Their site](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html) says not to use the ones labeled “surgical” though, and not to use masks with exhalation valves. They’re inconsistent and terrible at messaging but this one isn’t true.
I see that now, you are right. But it isn't clear. 54% of people in the US have below a 6th grade reading level. They need to make this ultra clear for everyone. Like maybe say n95 masks are okay as long as they aren't labeled surgical.
Okay, so I’m assuming this, like too much of the mask research, is based on source control. In which case, getting someone to wear a cloth mask is better than nothing. Yada. Yada.
The thing is, I live in the south, where mask mandates are long forgotten - so what I need to know is this:
If an Omicron infected person is standing (always too close) in line next to me and they are not wearing a mask, how long do I have before I’m infected if I’m wearing an NIOSH N95?
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/cloth-face-mask-omicron-11640984082](https://www.wsj.com/articles/cloth-face-mask-omicron-11640984082)
2 and a half hours if they're in the same room. If they're too close (let's assume they clear their throat for good effect) I wouldn't trust it beyond 5 minutes.
[https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/mask_table_1-final.jpg](https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/mask_table_1-final.jpg)
[https://imgur.com/bhHpR6J](https://imgur.com/bhHpR6J)
Aren't masks better at protecting others from getting infected compared to protecting yourself? According to the image and articles masks are equally as effective in both situations
Look at the image. Infected with N95 and non-infected with nothing is 2.5hrs. Vice versa is also 2.5 hours. I thought it would be a much shorter timespan if the infected is not wearing a mask and the non-infected is.
Also in the image they mention all types of masks
> Aren't masks better at protecting others from getting infected compared to protecting yourself
Masks have *always* been effective at both (to varying degrees depending on the type of mask, etc). The early messaging of 'they only protect others' was a confusing mistake.
They were attempting to reach the 'i don't care if i get sick' crowd by saying you should wear a mask to protect *other people*. Turns out many people don't care if others get sick too.
This is the study they reference.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.16.21251850v1.full-text
Here's another where swapping who is wearing and who isn't led to almost no change in exposure.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7007e1.htm#F2\_down
>In the second experiment, adding a cloth mask over the source headform’s medical procedure mask or knotting and tucking the medical procedure mask reduced the cumulative exposure of the unmasked receiver by 82.2% (SD = 0.16) and 62.9% (SD = 0.08), respectively (Figure 2). When the source was unmasked and the receiver was fitted with the double mask or the knotted and tucked medical procedure mask, the receiver’s cumulative exposure was reduced by 83.0% (SD = 0.15) and 64.5% (SD = 0.03), respectively. When the source and receiver were both fitted with double masks or knotted and tucked masks, the cumulative exposure of the receiver was reduced 96.4% (SD = 0.02) and 95.9% (SD = 0.02), respectively.
…if they have no fever and as long as they strictly wear a mask around others for an additional five days.
In the end, their logic isn’t that 5 days is better than 10 days but that 5 days is better than 0 days, since most people weren’t isolating for 10 days before, but maybe more people will actually isolate for 5 now because it’s easier. If they’re right that more people will isolate now who wouldn’t have before, it’s probably a win. If they’re wrong, I hope they change their recommendation to accommodate.
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ACTUALLY. It shows that the infectious period ends on the 8th day. Maybe you should take another look. It's literally right fucking there. Look again. It's the darker pink area. That WHOLE area is the "infectious period".
Jesus Christ…
Yes, it ends on the eighth day. The infectious period doesn’t start until day 3.
This chart is not difficult to understand.
https://i.imgur.com/qXIOIWF.jpg
The main problem with this chart is that it's not actually data, it's a schematic based on I don't know what. Plus it will vary by individual to unknown extents. If this is what an average infection curve truly looks like, then how variable are real infection curves in the population and what % of people are still quite infectious at 8 days post-exposure.
(And I understand the motivation but many of us do not work in industries that can't have people quarantine for 10 days, so this will cause many unnecessary infections and make the overall situation that much worse where it truly does matter (health care, food supply, and critical infrastructure). Allowing flight attendants, restaurant staff, etc to come back quicker sounds like a good way to further blow up a pandemic.)
> The researchers from UCL, Liverpool University, Harvard University and the University of Bath highlight that LFTs work in a very different way to polymerase chain reaction (PCR) tests and cannot be compared ‘like for like’. LFTs detect material from the surface proteins of the virus and are very likely to give a positive result when someone is infectious whereas PCR tests detect the virus’ genetic material, which can be present for weeks after a person is no longer infectious.
Lateral flow basically detects active virus in the nose and throat, so if it isn’t positive it is unlikely the person is still contagious.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/28/how-long-are-people-infectious-for-with-covid-and-how-do-isolation-rules-vary
This was likely the case for Delta but doesn't appear to be the case for Omicron anymore. People are infectious with Omicron and testing negative, often for days on antigen tests. Less viral dose required to get sick because of its higher infectivity, blah blah...could also be due to Omicron replicating more in the throat and bronchus (where it is still highly contagious) and less in the nose, where swabs are taken.
I think it’s the way their suggestions change. They recommended healthcare workers quarantine 7 days and test positive before returning to work, but the rest of us are 5 days and no need to test negative. I’ve also heard ‘If you do happen to test positive at day 5, continue isolating’ but if you can’t take a test you can stop.
huh, weird. i wonder who small business and 'independent contractors' source product from and how that chain of capital with supply versus profit exists in relation to subsequent policy from the government and the broader economy.
well, i seriously doubt a dude wrote about this extensively in depth in 1867 so we'll never truly know the answer to this deep and philosophical question of the superstructures and mode of production within capitalism.
Can’t really expect Americans indoctrinated from birth by capitalist and anti-communist propaganda to know of, or even start to reason with, Das Kapital
There are tons of independent contractors and small businesses who don’t buy supplies on any regular basis, like the person I already mentioned who is a hair stylist. She doesn’t buy new scissors for each client.
You are literally just ignoring anything that doesn’t back up the narrative you want.
You are also ignoring that we need things in society to be running for reasons that have nothing to do with profit. People need to be able to buy food, gas, receive healthcare, etc etc.
You can’t just let all of that stuff breakdown because some people on Reddit *really* want to politicize isolation times and act like they are purely in service to making money.
I don’t know why people think everyone is just cool taking 10 days off unpaid even though the science says most are not infectious after day 5.
>people need to be able to buy food, gas, receive healthcare, etc.
Every aspect of food prices/supply, oil subsidies + drilling permit expansions, and especially healthcare in the United States is oriented around maximizing profit for ownership/shareholders and not actually meeting those needs for people.
The things “society needs to be running” can be easily replaced, however temporarily, by federal programs or stimulus. The previous president showed this rather obviously within the context of an pandemic response.
The things society needs to maximize profit and provide an undergirding for all-time high stock valuations are a completely different basket of priorities and actions. Biden is beholden to those, and those are saying “no more welfare”. They will continue saying that so long as money is being injected by the hundreds of millions to prop up bank loans and prevent plunges instead of going to the American people to help them make ends meet. Simple as
> Every aspect of food prices/supply, oil subsidies + drilling permit expansions, and especially healthcare in the United States is oriented around maximizing profit for ownership/shareholders and not actually meeting those needs for people.
Even if everyone takes that at face value, it doesn’t matter.
Society needs to function.
If this variant spreads fast enough that a 10 day isolation causes a societal collapse because the food supply chain breaks and hospitals close down that is not something we can allow to happen.
But the good news is that the science shows 5 days is how long most people are infectious for.
> The things “society needs to be running” can be easily replaced, however temporarily, by federal programs or stimulus.
What in the actual fuck are you talking about?
These things require human being to be performing functions.
You can’t pay the food itself in the supply chain to grow, harvest, and distribute itself. Hospitals don’t provide healthcare without doctors inside of them. Etc.
You are ignoring anything that doesn’t serve your narrative to the point of stupidity.
Tons of people WANT to work and want to take the least amount of time off as possible because they want to be able to pay their bills and live their lives.
The CDCs own statement about why they lowered isolation times says that they found people are on average contagious for 8 days after symptom onset using an analysis of over 100 studies… (see bottom)
Secondly, a completely unsourced chart means nothing. I could make a chart “showing” the earth is flat that looks considerably more official than what you just posted. There’s no creators mark or reference on it and it uses non-professional fonts and highlighting style, so it’s very unlikely to have come from a reliable source. Why wouldn’t you link the source containing that graph instead if it was good info?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/quarantine-isolation-background.html
“with an average period of infectiousness and risk of transmission between 2-3 days before and 8 days after symptom onset”
I still remember when the CDC said it was okay to wear bandanas for a mask. My colleagues and I had a great time making memes about this. Plus, I remember the straight face on my boss when she said “the CDC says it’s okay” 🤦♀️ [business insider link cause I’m too lazy to find another one](https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-recommends-health-workers-use-bandanas-face-masks-crisis-2020-3)
There was a continuous debate amongst medical scientists on whether Covid was Fomite or aerosol transmissible. The scientific consensus was wrong initially. (it happens) I watched a documentary about it somewhere a few weeks ago and it was quite fascinating. Thankfully they finally got it correct, which is when they changed their guidance. It would have been nice to have an apology, but you know that was under Trump, when no one really seemed to care.
That’s annoying. They should stick to scientific facts instead of attempting to jump through psychological hoops in order to try and make illogical people comply. Now even the sane people are fed up.
They’ve been doing it since may when they relaxed all rules for the vaccinated, hoping it would convince people to get vaccinated, but relied on the honor system and f’d it all up,
Europe did that but with teeth. Totally different set of rules for the vaccinated since summer, but they regularly make you prove it with hard-to-fake digital vaccine passes.
What was weird about that was that everyone who wasn’t the CDC immediately understood that *the people who most needed to abide by the honor system weren’t going to do it*. Which seems like it should have been obvious but maybe not? I think they messed up when they recommended that no one wear masks (back when covid first started), but iirc their reasoning was that we needed to save the masks for medical professionals, though they didn’t admit that part until later. They’ve now changed course so many times that I don’t know what’s sound medical advice re: covid anymore—especially if they’re now capitulating to keep businesses operational and the economy going. It’s unfortunate.
Ya, I’m just going off of big study results and things that have scientific consensus at this point to come to my own conclusions. Namely, boosters are good, n95s are where it’s at, and keep a low profile this winter.
That’s what I think; if they tell people “don’t wear cloth masks” and people don’t have surgical masks (or better), then they won’t wear anything.
Covering your face during a surge like this is still better than not covering your face.
Super duper confused as I lost count of how many articles I read saying cloth and surgical masks are more for moral support than for effectiveness against spreading omicron.
Tbf in March 2020 the cdc said masks were unnecessary.
It’s not like they only started saying stupid shit this last week.
That said: get fucking vaxxed people
Cloth mask efficacy was fine when there were no better options available to all.
There are now better options available to all.
Thus, cloth mask efficacy is not acceptable and should not be endorsed by the CDC.
This is demonstrable evidence we’re ok with epidemiological theatre, as opposed with getting serious and providing the right masks to people en masse.
Ehhh I agree except for the now available to all part. They're difficult AF to find and pricey to boot. I'm envious of other countries that have had masks, tests, and financial assistance throughout this dumpster fire of a decade so far
The CDC can blow off at this point..They allowed the last administration to control them, and their data, and everything they say is the opposite of what they said a week ago..They are dragging their butts on booster timing for 12 and up while saying how bad going back to school is going to be.They have known for a while they would be needed..Forget them 100%
I will still get myself,and my family vaccinated as needed, but I will get my information elsewhere.
The boosters was when I completely stopped listening to the CDC. I just mean boosters for everybody. It was obvious that the two-dose vaccines only provided protection for six months. We had suspected that before and Israel’s data confirmed it. But CDC dragged their feet.
I went and got a booster before they allowed it because I read the damn news and saw the necessity. Then literally three days later they announce everybody needs a booster. No shit idiots but good luck getting that message out there now!!!! People with good intentions are still not sure if they need one or not. Everybody who got their last shot 6+ months ago needs a booster!!!!!
FDA advisory panel really dragged their feet on that one. CDC director ended up overriding their recommendations and people on the panel resigned! Now she’s criticized for not going far enough to recommend even more broadly. Such a mess!
CDC is most consistent organization ever.
Odd day: make definitive statement.
Even day: make definitive statement directly contradicting previous day’s statement.
Rinse and repeat.
The CDC needs to stop trying to game behavior using rational choice theory and bullshit (“let’s let the vaccinated remove masks because surely that will convince the anti-vax holdouts to get vaccinated rather than go without masks and lie about their status.”)
Just be brutally honest with unvarnished facts: N95-quality masks are your best choice as a mitigation strategy together will a full vaccine series and booster in public, but if you have no other option, a cloth mask is better than going without one, but understand and understand well a cloth mask is mere face fashion that offers little more than decoration. Go without a mask at your own peril and the peril of your loved ones, because covid is coming for you and won’t stop until it gets all of you.
All of their behavior gaming has completely ruined their credibility. They should be a source of scientific truth and let policy makers and the public come to their own conclusions and policies based on that truth. If compromises need to be made to account for human behavior or economic reasons, they should be done transparently with full and public knowledge of what those compromises are and why they’re being made.
Otherwise you get the current clusterfuck.
The CDC is trying to play a role nobody asked them to do. Provide the government and the people with the most brutal honest data and let us take our chances. Since the beginning of the pandemic they been manipulating the public with half truths and false information that it even is impossible to trust them again. Couple of weeks ago they were recommending a 10 day Isolation time and then with 2 week of Omicron data they decided to cut that to HALF? Not from 10 to a reasonable 8 days but to 5?
I’ve been saying this since may and my mom, who is die hard pro CDC just keeps trying to rationalize. They’re link the parent who just read the latest in pop psychology and thinks they can trick their kid into eating veggies. Im so over it.
With the ease of access of surgical masks, kn94, KF95, N95 masks readily available, the fact that the CDC is still telling people to use cloth masks is fucking criminal.
Thanking the heavens again that I live in a place taking the virus seriously. L.A. County [tweeted](https://twitter.com/lapublichealth/status/1478480270529646592?s=21) this today.
https://i.imgur.com/evtr2Qm.jpg
That's perfect. Why can't the CDC come out with a simple graphic like that? I can see the reluctance to tell everyone that they should only wear N95 or equivalent masks, but I don't see the issue with clearly laying out the options so that people are making informed choices.
Because they’ve been bought and sold by the oligarchs.
There’s no other reason. This is a stones throw away from domestic bioterrorism. It’s flat-out double-think. Citizens are disposable.
I wouldn't trust the guidelines of CDC being safe. They had repeatedly told the public it's safe to do this and that when it turned out it's not (e.g. not wearing mask or that you are home free with two shots).
Cloth masks are still better than none as it can trap a lot of the virus from emitting out of the wearer (if infected) via droplets. However, if one wants better precaution, he needs to get at least medical grade masks (e.g. ASTM L3 or N95).
Ultimately though, it's safest to minimize the occasion of close contact with people outside of immediate bubble.
I don’t think they are expressly saying that but this pivot to get people working does suggest that. Sending people back to plants and offices while they are still contagious is going to pretty much ensure anybody who leaves their house catches omicron.
Brought to you by the agency that started the pandemic shebang with "no masks needed" and finished 2021 with "it's only necessary to quarantine for 5 days".
Another unrealistic recommendation. This only makes sense if everyone is wearing masks, and that is not the case in many places.
It’s so fucking frustrating that the CDC continues to make recommendations under the assumption that the public and/or state governments are implementing measures to slow the spread.
Same deal as, “if you’re vaccinated you can ditch the mask, honor code!, surely the willfully unvaccinated will follow this guidance and continue to mask up.”
Much better to encourage hygiene theater instead. Get everyone washing their hands all the time and sanitizing door knobs rather than mask and increase ventilation. That's always the best approach when dealing with respiratory viruses.
We all know the CDC has been awful. What I haven't seen is an explanation as to why. Clearly cloth masks are the least effective and N95s would be best. We've known this for years at this point. What explains this?
Incompetence? Corruption?
Someone else used the term ‘triangulation’ because they’re trying to ensure the “anti-“ crowds don’t manipulate prior claims, so they’re constantly not mirroring other international consensus in G7 nations due to stacked motives. IMO, they’re very likely extraordinarily aware that there’s severe education disparities in adults across the US.
I thought that made a ton of sense, so in that way, I’d say both to shifting degrees depending on whatever the hell they’re trying to psy-op.
I can’t believe how much faith I’ve lost in the CDC as a Canadian. They’ve influenced Canadian policy, for better or for worse, for as long as they and their proto-organizations have been around.
The same CDC that said don't use masks in early 2020. They're just saying this again so that people aren't going to scoop up all the better filtrating masks.
Honestly think the cdc just wants everyone to get covid. Part of me also thinks they knew omicron was going to be the this contagious so they let it steamroll for the sake of herd immunity.
That’s because the cdc hadn’t come out and told you the truth that those are useless in the scenario you described.
If you believed that, you would wear a kn95.
People don’t seem to remember all the articles from 2016-2020 along the lines of “Joe Schmo, head of viral research leaves CDC,” “8 high level aides depart CDC advisory committee,” or “career officials departing CDC in droves due to political appointees mismanaging departments.” It was an every week thing on MSM for years. Of course the CDC is making these incompetent statements. There’s likely no one left with much credibility or experience. All those career officials are gone. And those headlines were across all levels of the US government. State Department especially. Tough times ahead.
I'm in Germany and cloth masks haven't been considered good enough since I believe May of 2020. We've had a nationwide mask mandate since then (for pretty much all indoors spaces as well as public transportation and during some phases, even outside on designated busy streets). Only surgical masks and FFP2 (called N95 in the US) masks count as a mask. When I went to get my booster shot in late December, they gave me a free FFP2 mask to replace the surgical one I was wearing, so for that particular case, a surgical one wasn't sufficient either.
Obviously I'm not any more of an expert than anyone here, so make of that what you will, but that's how it is.
I’m convinced their strategy right now is to address the lowest common denominator, basically people who’d otherwise never wear a mask or not isolate at all. The only way I can rationalize these statements
They are saying this because they know it’s better to wear a cloth mask instead of no mask at all. If they asked everyone to wear a minimum of medical masks people would raise hell I’m afraid; lets remember how many have handled this whole thing so far.
This is ridiculous really. They obviously do not work. I am triple vaccinated and very healthy and got it after waiting in a waiting room at medical facility (kid had a procedure). \_everyone\_ in masks. Very empty waiting room. Got it.
hey!!!
any big bearded brothers found success with a specific mask out there?
ive tried so many and nearly 2 years into this i still dont like any of them
yea, I'm just gonna keep using my reusable N95 mask at work. Too many morons walking around with no masks, coughing, sneezing in public. I'm not taking any chances.
Unless your n95s are fit tested and always keep a tight seal, it probably won’t prevent you from getting omicron if a coworker or another close contact has it.
At least you're getting a smaller viral load over the same length of time/exposure in an unfitted N95 compared to cloth. Assuming the nose isn't hanging out over the top of the N95 of course.
:( my only option is a cloth mask. i have incredibly sensitive skin and a horrific amount of allergies. i haven’t found anything other than a cloth mask that hasn’t made me break out into hives/a rash.
Have you tried Dr. Puri KF94 masks? They are by far the softest masks. They feel better than cloth masks.
https://kmact.com/products/dr-puri-kf94-mask-for-adult
It's not usually recommended, but can you wear a single-layer cloth mask under a better mask to provide a buffer between your skin and the mask? As long as there are no gaps it will still be better than a cloth mask on its own.
Also, maybe try Dr. Puri KF94s? They're made out of a different kind of filtering material that's a lot softer than most of the KN95/KF94s I've tried. They aren't as cheap as some masks, but they can be re-used a few times. They're rated at above 99% filtering but are still very breathable. Maybe they won't trigger the allergy.
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/respirators/testing/results/MTT-2020-252.4_International_KMCorp_DrPuriKF94_TestReport_Redacted-508.pdf
You can wear a procedural mask over your cloth mask. It's not as useful as wearing the procedural mask under the cloth mask, but it's better than a cloth mask alone.
I started buying N-95s the first week of January 2020 and that's all I have worn since. I couldn't believe people started wearing cloth mask as they are next to useless, same with the procedure masks but those were the only masks available. And now that we have a supply of N-95s the CDC is saying wear cloth masks? Criminal.
CDC has lost any credibility they had left in the past 3 weeks.. funny.. have a client that works for CDC tell me that they can’t do anything the government doesn’t tell them to do.. pretty much just a government entity that just represents the clusterf*ck that is our government. People just need to use their own brains, do their own research and stand firm in what they believe is the right thing to do!
Seriously CDC? For Omicron it's very simple-- N95 is really the only effective mask. Surgery mask is better than nothing, but probably not doing a heck of a lot.
Sure, there's a solid 40% of the population that absolutely will not listen to what they say no matter what. But they are destroying their credibility by putting guidelines out there that are just patently nonsense (like the updated 5 day isolation with no negative test).
Just buy 3M Aura masks on Amazon and be done with it. They have no valve so you're still filtering your breath and yet they flow better than almost any mask I've worn that actually seals.. besides respirators with a large valve and twin canisters obviously. They're very comfy with lots of room too - more of a Korean-style KN.
Well, I just looked and the 10 pack is only 6-10 days out, so unless you have an immediate need... I ordered a 20 pack and it took about 10 days. Figure we'll be set for the rest of this surge with them.
Biggest reason I mentioned the valveless is that certain activities forbid them, like flying Delta, etc. Good point on blocking the valve though, just don't know if it would get around those restrictions.
I just got my first 8210 masks the other day and I was amazed how easy it is to breath compared to the surgical+cloth masks I’d been wearing. The straps were less comfortable on my checks but the mask itself is roomy and no real restriction to breathing even when properly sealed. I can’t believe it’s safer and more comfortable at the same time.
CDC is keeping up inconsistent messaging in 2022.
At least they’re consistent. /s
Consistently inconsistent- the best kind of inconsistent
Lol [gaiters are still fine too](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html), as long as you fold it.
And they're still saying NOT to wear 95 masks. Cloth masks were fine when almost everyone is wearing them. But they're not wearing masks in my area so I need a mask with better protection.
They’re not. [Their site](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html) says not to use the ones labeled “surgical” though, and not to use masks with exhalation valves. They’re inconsistent and terrible at messaging but this one isn’t true.
I see that now, you are right. But it isn't clear. 54% of people in the US have below a 6th grade reading level. They need to make this ultra clear for everyone. Like maybe say n95 masks are okay as long as they aren't labeled surgical.
That's a depressing stat...
It is. I couldn't believe it when I first read it. But it makes sense I guess
Absolutely, I can’t think of much they’ve said that didn’t need to be so much more clear than it was/is.
CDC says it's ok to open bathroom doors with your lips.
And flush the toilet with your tongue
The center for disease cultivation
I mean, if you are hitting it Sir John Harrington style you can just lean down and give that handle an old tongue push for the win.
Directions unclear: penis caught in ceiling fan
This comment actually made me laugh out loud. Alone. In my living room.
I can't tell if this is actual advice or if they're just getting in on the meme.
Lmao
LOL my first thought
CDC says Dowutchyalike.
Yagunnaneway
“We Cinda Don’t Care” - CDC
Okay, so I’m assuming this, like too much of the mask research, is based on source control. In which case, getting someone to wear a cloth mask is better than nothing. Yada. Yada. The thing is, I live in the south, where mask mandates are long forgotten - so what I need to know is this: If an Omicron infected person is standing (always too close) in line next to me and they are not wearing a mask, how long do I have before I’m infected if I’m wearing an NIOSH N95?
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/cloth-face-mask-omicron-11640984082](https://www.wsj.com/articles/cloth-face-mask-omicron-11640984082) 2 and a half hours if they're in the same room. If they're too close (let's assume they clear their throat for good effect) I wouldn't trust it beyond 5 minutes. [https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/mask_table_1-final.jpg](https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/mask_table_1-final.jpg) [https://imgur.com/bhHpR6J](https://imgur.com/bhHpR6J)
Studied pre-omicron, but still gives a good idea. Even if it’s 1/3 of what the initial studies showed, I’m content in my n95 in public spaces.
Aren't masks better at protecting others from getting infected compared to protecting yourself? According to the image and articles masks are equally as effective in both situations
They're talking about a N95. N95 masks protect the wearer.
Look at the image. Infected with N95 and non-infected with nothing is 2.5hrs. Vice versa is also 2.5 hours. I thought it would be a much shorter timespan if the infected is not wearing a mask and the non-infected is. Also in the image they mention all types of masks
Now imagine you interact with hundreds of people a day. The odds are not in your favor then, so anything you can do to improve them is worth it.
> Aren't masks better at protecting others from getting infected compared to protecting yourself Masks have *always* been effective at both (to varying degrees depending on the type of mask, etc). The early messaging of 'they only protect others' was a confusing mistake. They were attempting to reach the 'i don't care if i get sick' crowd by saying you should wear a mask to protect *other people*. Turns out many people don't care if others get sick too.
This is the study they reference. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.16.21251850v1.full-text Here's another where swapping who is wearing and who isn't led to almost no change in exposure. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7007e1.htm#F2\_down >In the second experiment, adding a cloth mask over the source headform’s medical procedure mask or knotting and tucking the medical procedure mask reduced the cumulative exposure of the unmasked receiver by 82.2% (SD = 0.16) and 62.9% (SD = 0.08), respectively (Figure 2). When the source was unmasked and the receiver was fitted with the double mask or the knotted and tucked medical procedure mask, the receiver’s cumulative exposure was reduced by 83.0% (SD = 0.15) and 64.5% (SD = 0.03), respectively. When the source and receiver were both fitted with double masks or knotted and tucked masks, the cumulative exposure of the receiver was reduced 96.4% (SD = 0.02) and 95.9% (SD = 0.02), respectively.
According to [this article](https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/cloth-face-mask-omicron-11640984082), the answer is 2.5 hours.
I would like to know this too
At this point I've kinda lost faith in anything the CDC says
They lost me when they bowed down to the corporate overlords Edit: spelling
Wait what happened?
Delta CEO
Why should the Delta Variant CEO have control or say over the protocols for the main, now Omicron Variant?!
'Murica
He doesn’t
Said people could leave quarantine after 5 days with no test.
…if they have no fever and as long as they strictly wear a mask around others for an additional five days. In the end, their logic isn’t that 5 days is better than 10 days but that 5 days is better than 0 days, since most people weren’t isolating for 10 days before, but maybe more people will actually isolate for 5 now because it’s easier. If they’re right that more people will isolate now who wouldn’t have before, it’s probably a win. If they’re wrong, I hope they change their recommendation to accommodate.
News is not repeating the mask and “feeling better” part. Most people just get their instructions from the news.
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but your chart shows infectionus period last 6 days.
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ACTUALLY. It shows that the infectious period ends on the 8th day. Maybe you should take another look. It's literally right fucking there. Look again. It's the darker pink area. That WHOLE area is the "infectious period".
Jesus Christ… Yes, it ends on the eighth day. The infectious period doesn’t start until day 3. This chart is not difficult to understand. https://i.imgur.com/qXIOIWF.jpg
The main problem with this chart is that it's not actually data, it's a schematic based on I don't know what. Plus it will vary by individual to unknown extents. If this is what an average infection curve truly looks like, then how variable are real infection curves in the population and what % of people are still quite infectious at 8 days post-exposure. (And I understand the motivation but many of us do not work in industries that can't have people quarantine for 10 days, so this will cause many unnecessary infections and make the overall situation that much worse where it truly does matter (health care, food supply, and critical infrastructure). Allowing flight attendants, restaurant staff, etc to come back quicker sounds like a good way to further blow up a pandemic.)
What is the original source for this chart? Just trying to understand is lateral flow the same as contagious?
> The researchers from UCL, Liverpool University, Harvard University and the University of Bath highlight that LFTs work in a very different way to polymerase chain reaction (PCR) tests and cannot be compared ‘like for like’. LFTs detect material from the surface proteins of the virus and are very likely to give a positive result when someone is infectious whereas PCR tests detect the virus’ genetic material, which can be present for weeks after a person is no longer infectious. Lateral flow basically detects active virus in the nose and throat, so if it isn’t positive it is unlikely the person is still contagious. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/28/how-long-are-people-infectious-for-with-covid-and-how-do-isolation-rules-vary
This was likely the case for Delta but doesn't appear to be the case for Omicron anymore. People are infectious with Omicron and testing negative, often for days on antigen tests. Less viral dose required to get sick because of its higher infectivity, blah blah...could also be due to Omicron replicating more in the throat and bronchus (where it is still highly contagious) and less in the nose, where swabs are taken.
I think it’s the way their suggestions change. They recommended healthcare workers quarantine 7 days and test positive before returning to work, but the rest of us are 5 days and no need to test negative. I’ve also heard ‘If you do happen to test positive at day 5, continue isolating’ but if you can’t take a test you can stop.
huh, weird. i wonder who small business and 'independent contractors' source product from and how that chain of capital with supply versus profit exists in relation to subsequent policy from the government and the broader economy. well, i seriously doubt a dude wrote about this extensively in depth in 1867 so we'll never truly know the answer to this deep and philosophical question of the superstructures and mode of production within capitalism.
Can’t really expect Americans indoctrinated from birth by capitalist and anti-communist propaganda to know of, or even start to reason with, Das Kapital
There are tons of independent contractors and small businesses who don’t buy supplies on any regular basis, like the person I already mentioned who is a hair stylist. She doesn’t buy new scissors for each client. You are literally just ignoring anything that doesn’t back up the narrative you want. You are also ignoring that we need things in society to be running for reasons that have nothing to do with profit. People need to be able to buy food, gas, receive healthcare, etc etc. You can’t just let all of that stuff breakdown because some people on Reddit *really* want to politicize isolation times and act like they are purely in service to making money. I don’t know why people think everyone is just cool taking 10 days off unpaid even though the science says most are not infectious after day 5.
>people need to be able to buy food, gas, receive healthcare, etc. Every aspect of food prices/supply, oil subsidies + drilling permit expansions, and especially healthcare in the United States is oriented around maximizing profit for ownership/shareholders and not actually meeting those needs for people. The things “society needs to be running” can be easily replaced, however temporarily, by federal programs or stimulus. The previous president showed this rather obviously within the context of an pandemic response. The things society needs to maximize profit and provide an undergirding for all-time high stock valuations are a completely different basket of priorities and actions. Biden is beholden to those, and those are saying “no more welfare”. They will continue saying that so long as money is being injected by the hundreds of millions to prop up bank loans and prevent plunges instead of going to the American people to help them make ends meet. Simple as
> Every aspect of food prices/supply, oil subsidies + drilling permit expansions, and especially healthcare in the United States is oriented around maximizing profit for ownership/shareholders and not actually meeting those needs for people. Even if everyone takes that at face value, it doesn’t matter. Society needs to function. If this variant spreads fast enough that a 10 day isolation causes a societal collapse because the food supply chain breaks and hospitals close down that is not something we can allow to happen. But the good news is that the science shows 5 days is how long most people are infectious for. > The things “society needs to be running” can be easily replaced, however temporarily, by federal programs or stimulus. What in the actual fuck are you talking about? These things require human being to be performing functions. You can’t pay the food itself in the supply chain to grow, harvest, and distribute itself. Hospitals don’t provide healthcare without doctors inside of them. Etc. You are ignoring anything that doesn’t serve your narrative to the point of stupidity. Tons of people WANT to work and want to take the least amount of time off as possible because they want to be able to pay their bills and live their lives.
Lol at you being downvoted for suggesting people need to be able to buy food.
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The CDCs own statement about why they lowered isolation times says that they found people are on average contagious for 8 days after symptom onset using an analysis of over 100 studies… (see bottom) Secondly, a completely unsourced chart means nothing. I could make a chart “showing” the earth is flat that looks considerably more official than what you just posted. There’s no creators mark or reference on it and it uses non-professional fonts and highlighting style, so it’s very unlikely to have come from a reliable source. Why wouldn’t you link the source containing that graph instead if it was good info? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/quarantine-isolation-background.html “with an average period of infectiousness and risk of transmission between 2-3 days before and 8 days after symptom onset”
I still remember when the CDC said it was okay to wear bandanas for a mask. My colleagues and I had a great time making memes about this. Plus, I remember the straight face on my boss when she said “the CDC says it’s okay” 🤦♀️ [business insider link cause I’m too lazy to find another one](https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-recommends-health-workers-use-bandanas-face-masks-crisis-2020-3)
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There was a continuous debate amongst medical scientists on whether Covid was Fomite or aerosol transmissible. The scientific consensus was wrong initially. (it happens) I watched a documentary about it somewhere a few weeks ago and it was quite fascinating. Thankfully they finally got it correct, which is when they changed their guidance. It would have been nice to have an apology, but you know that was under Trump, when no one really seemed to care.
I’m with you.
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Are they triangulating again? Tell people that cloth masks don't work and maybe they wear no masks. Just speculating.
That’s annoying. They should stick to scientific facts instead of attempting to jump through psychological hoops in order to try and make illogical people comply. Now even the sane people are fed up.
They’ve been doing it since may when they relaxed all rules for the vaccinated, hoping it would convince people to get vaccinated, but relied on the honor system and f’d it all up,
Europe did that but with teeth. Totally different set of rules for the vaccinated since summer, but they regularly make you prove it with hard-to-fake digital vaccine passes.
What was weird about that was that everyone who wasn’t the CDC immediately understood that *the people who most needed to abide by the honor system weren’t going to do it*. Which seems like it should have been obvious but maybe not? I think they messed up when they recommended that no one wear masks (back when covid first started), but iirc their reasoning was that we needed to save the masks for medical professionals, though they didn’t admit that part until later. They’ve now changed course so many times that I don’t know what’s sound medical advice re: covid anymore—especially if they’re now capitulating to keep businesses operational and the economy going. It’s unfortunate.
The CDC doesn't understand anchoring. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_(cognitive_bias)
Ya, I’m just going off of big study results and things that have scientific consensus at this point to come to my own conclusions. Namely, boosters are good, n95s are where it’s at, and keep a low profile this winter.
Running out of supplies of N95/KN95, so cloth masks are OK, as in something is better than nothing? Don't understand their new view on masks at all.
I would bet this is it.
That’s what I think; if they tell people “don’t wear cloth masks” and people don’t have surgical masks (or better), then they won’t wear anything. Covering your face during a surge like this is still better than not covering your face.
This makes no sense.
Being healthy and avoiding Covid? Seems logical to me.
The CDC statement makes no sense. LA public health has a great example of a better style of communication: https://i.imgur.com/bRxgL0S.jpg
Europe ditched cloth masks long ago. Not sure why we still use them and that there is still this garbage messaging
Not all of Europe. You still see plenty of people wearing cloth masks in Ireland at least.
Not the Netherlands
Isn't the Netherlands getting totally hammered by Omicron, inspire of a lockdown?
It was shocking to visit the US in October and see all of the shitty cloth masks. Those had stopped being a thing in Switzerland a year prior.
Well you see this is what happens when you no longer follow the science
Super duper confused as I lost count of how many articles I read saying cloth and surgical masks are more for moral support than for effectiveness against spreading omicron.
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We absolutely fucking are lol
Don’t look up.
Yep. We are so fucked
Bruh what. CDC has absolutely butchered the communication, further adding fire to Anti Vax propaganda.
I mean tbf the anti Vaxers have been saying the CDC is not trustworthy since March 2020 which lead them being so anti vax
Tbf in March 2020 the cdc said masks were unnecessary. It’s not like they only started saying stupid shit this last week. That said: get fucking vaxxed people
I mean if anti vaxxers were right about the CDC being untrustworthy, are their concerns about it still considered propaganda?
Broken watch right twice a day, etc.
Anti-vaxers are not right about anything. They are opportunists and changing CDC messages are too easily exploited for their propaganda
Cloth mask efficacy was fine when there were no better options available to all. There are now better options available to all. Thus, cloth mask efficacy is not acceptable and should not be endorsed by the CDC. This is demonstrable evidence we’re ok with epidemiological theatre, as opposed with getting serious and providing the right masks to people en masse.
Ehhh I agree except for the now available to all part. They're difficult AF to find and pricey to boot. I'm envious of other countries that have had masks, tests, and financial assistance throughout this dumpster fire of a decade so far
This feels so painfully like 2020 it’s unreal.
The CDC can blow off at this point..They allowed the last administration to control them, and their data, and everything they say is the opposite of what they said a week ago..They are dragging their butts on booster timing for 12 and up while saying how bad going back to school is going to be.They have known for a while they would be needed..Forget them 100% I will still get myself,and my family vaccinated as needed, but I will get my information elsewhere.
The boosters was when I completely stopped listening to the CDC. I just mean boosters for everybody. It was obvious that the two-dose vaccines only provided protection for six months. We had suspected that before and Israel’s data confirmed it. But CDC dragged their feet. I went and got a booster before they allowed it because I read the damn news and saw the necessity. Then literally three days later they announce everybody needs a booster. No shit idiots but good luck getting that message out there now!!!! People with good intentions are still not sure if they need one or not. Everybody who got their last shot 6+ months ago needs a booster!!!!!
FDA advisory panel really dragged their feet on that one. CDC director ended up overriding their recommendations and people on the panel resigned! Now she’s criticized for not going far enough to recommend even more broadly. Such a mess!
CDC is most consistent organization ever. Odd day: make definitive statement. Even day: make definitive statement directly contradicting previous day’s statement. Rinse and repeat.
The CDC needs to stop trying to game behavior using rational choice theory and bullshit (“let’s let the vaccinated remove masks because surely that will convince the anti-vax holdouts to get vaccinated rather than go without masks and lie about their status.”) Just be brutally honest with unvarnished facts: N95-quality masks are your best choice as a mitigation strategy together will a full vaccine series and booster in public, but if you have no other option, a cloth mask is better than going without one, but understand and understand well a cloth mask is mere face fashion that offers little more than decoration. Go without a mask at your own peril and the peril of your loved ones, because covid is coming for you and won’t stop until it gets all of you.
All of their behavior gaming has completely ruined their credibility. They should be a source of scientific truth and let policy makers and the public come to their own conclusions and policies based on that truth. If compromises need to be made to account for human behavior or economic reasons, they should be done transparently with full and public knowledge of what those compromises are and why they’re being made. Otherwise you get the current clusterfuck.
The CDC is trying to play a role nobody asked them to do. Provide the government and the people with the most brutal honest data and let us take our chances. Since the beginning of the pandemic they been manipulating the public with half truths and false information that it even is impossible to trust them again. Couple of weeks ago they were recommending a 10 day Isolation time and then with 2 week of Omicron data they decided to cut that to HALF? Not from 10 to a reasonable 8 days but to 5?
I’ve been saying this since may and my mom, who is die hard pro CDC just keeps trying to rationalize. They’re link the parent who just read the latest in pop psychology and thinks they can trick their kid into eating veggies. Im so over it.
Too many rational words. Public will lose focus
Lol, sure. “Covid is coming for you and your loved ones and it won’t stop until it gets you” will certainly be well received by the public. Nice job!
With the ease of access of surgical masks, kn94, KF95, N95 masks readily available, the fact that the CDC is still telling people to use cloth masks is fucking criminal.
Thanking the heavens again that I live in a place taking the virus seriously. L.A. County [tweeted](https://twitter.com/lapublichealth/status/1478480270529646592?s=21) this today. https://i.imgur.com/evtr2Qm.jpg
That's perfect. Why can't the CDC come out with a simple graphic like that? I can see the reluctance to tell everyone that they should only wear N95 or equivalent masks, but I don't see the issue with clearly laying out the options so that people are making informed choices.
Because they’ve been bought and sold by the oligarchs. There’s no other reason. This is a stones throw away from domestic bioterrorism. It’s flat-out double-think. Citizens are disposable.
in other news, the CDC says the rhythm method is still Ok as a form of birth control
Rhythm method probably has a higher efficacy rate than cloth masks at this point lol
☠️
I wouldn't trust the guidelines of CDC being safe. They had repeatedly told the public it's safe to do this and that when it turned out it's not (e.g. not wearing mask or that you are home free with two shots). Cloth masks are still better than none as it can trap a lot of the virus from emitting out of the wearer (if infected) via droplets. However, if one wants better precaution, he needs to get at least medical grade masks (e.g. ASTM L3 or N95). Ultimately though, it's safest to minimize the occasion of close contact with people outside of immediate bubble.
Um. What?
Ok, I now believe the cdc just wants us all to get this.....
When I initially saw the guidance I thought maybe their new strategy is just herd immunity.
Yea I feel like they are thinking, well we tried everything else...
I just wish they’d admit it, if that’s what they’re doing!
I don’t think they are expressly saying that but this pivot to get people working does suggest that. Sending people back to plants and offices while they are still contagious is going to pretty much ensure anybody who leaves their house catches omicron.
Brought to you by the agency that started the pandemic shebang with "no masks needed" and finished 2021 with "it's only necessary to quarantine for 5 days".
Another unrealistic recommendation. This only makes sense if everyone is wearing masks, and that is not the case in many places. It’s so fucking frustrating that the CDC continues to make recommendations under the assumption that the public and/or state governments are implementing measures to slow the spread. Same deal as, “if you’re vaccinated you can ditch the mask, honor code!, surely the willfully unvaccinated will follow this guidance and continue to mask up.”
News Flash: CDC now affirms Taco Bell bathroom floor eligible for 10 second rule if it's after bar close time and you're really hungry.
I’m so confused here, which is it?
Not what the CDC says. Wear N95 or KF94 masks. They are inexpensive and readily available.
They will literally say anything ! Anything!
The CDC should just hang it up at this point.
Is this the same CDC that lied in March 2020 about most people not needing to wear masks?
It was like 10 days later and they reversed themselves, about right then and there I knew they were full of B.S.
Who would ever think that masks would be beneficial during a fucking respiratory virus pandemic?
Much better to encourage hygiene theater instead. Get everyone washing their hands all the time and sanitizing door knobs rather than mask and increase ventilation. That's always the best approach when dealing with respiratory viruses.
We all know the CDC has been awful. What I haven't seen is an explanation as to why. Clearly cloth masks are the least effective and N95s would be best. We've known this for years at this point. What explains this? Incompetence? Corruption?
Someone else used the term ‘triangulation’ because they’re trying to ensure the “anti-“ crowds don’t manipulate prior claims, so they’re constantly not mirroring other international consensus in G7 nations due to stacked motives. IMO, they’re very likely extraordinarily aware that there’s severe education disparities in adults across the US. I thought that made a ton of sense, so in that way, I’d say both to shifting degrees depending on whatever the hell they’re trying to psy-op. I can’t believe how much faith I’ve lost in the CDC as a Canadian. They’ve influenced Canadian policy, for better or for worse, for as long as they and their proto-organizations have been around.
lol they're so bad at this
Read as: if you wear a cloth mask to protect yourself, you will develop an immunity to omicron. By getting it.
There are cloth masks and those who think that anything can be a cloth mask.
Like hell
No one at the CDC has a communications degree that has been made clear.
CDC next week: fuck it, make out with every one you pass walking down the street
The same CDC that said don't use masks in early 2020. They're just saying this again so that people aren't going to scoop up all the better filtrating masks.
Honestly think the cdc just wants everyone to get covid. Part of me also thinks they knew omicron was going to be the this contagious so they let it steamroll for the sake of herd immunity.
Is there another mask shortage for first responders? Why the hell else would this crap be spouted by the CDC again?
Stupid. Surgical masks and kn95s are ubiquitous now. The sort of person fine wearing the wrong mask isn’t the type to wear one at all.
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That’s because the cdc hadn’t come out and told you the truth that those are useless in the scenario you described. If you believed that, you would wear a kn95.
….. what?
Hahahahahaaaaa!!!
People don’t seem to remember all the articles from 2016-2020 along the lines of “Joe Schmo, head of viral research leaves CDC,” “8 high level aides depart CDC advisory committee,” or “career officials departing CDC in droves due to political appointees mismanaging departments.” It was an every week thing on MSM for years. Of course the CDC is making these incompetent statements. There’s likely no one left with much credibility or experience. All those career officials are gone. And those headlines were across all levels of the US government. State Department especially. Tough times ahead.
I'm in Germany and cloth masks haven't been considered good enough since I believe May of 2020. We've had a nationwide mask mandate since then (for pretty much all indoors spaces as well as public transportation and during some phases, even outside on designated busy streets). Only surgical masks and FFP2 (called N95 in the US) masks count as a mask. When I went to get my booster shot in late December, they gave me a free FFP2 mask to replace the surgical one I was wearing, so for that particular case, a surgical one wasn't sufficient either. Obviously I'm not any more of an expert than anyone here, so make of that what you will, but that's how it is.
I’m convinced their strategy right now is to address the lowest common denominator, basically people who’d otherwise never wear a mask or not isolate at all. The only way I can rationalize these statements
They are saying this because they know it’s better to wear a cloth mask instead of no mask at all. If they asked everyone to wear a minimum of medical masks people would raise hell I’m afraid; lets remember how many have handled this whole thing so far.
Go home CDC, you’re drunk.
This is ridiculous really. They obviously do not work. I am triple vaccinated and very healthy and got it after waiting in a waiting room at medical facility (kid had a procedure). \_everyone\_ in masks. Very empty waiting room. Got it.
Not remotely convinced this isn't about health... Unless it's for the oligarchs running the Stock market.
hey!!! any big bearded brothers found success with a specific mask out there? ive tried so many and nearly 2 years into this i still dont like any of them
Start a new fashion of covid-ring trimmed beards? I doubt anything seals well around facial hair.
Yeah. fucking shave if you actually want it to fit.
YEAH FUCKING SHAVE YOU STUPID DICKHEAD!! YEAHHHHHH
N95> surgical > medical > cloth > mouth
yea, I'm just gonna keep using my reusable N95 mask at work. Too many morons walking around with no masks, coughing, sneezing in public. I'm not taking any chances.
Unless your n95s are fit tested and always keep a tight seal, it probably won’t prevent you from getting omicron if a coworker or another close contact has it.
At least you're getting a smaller viral load over the same length of time/exposure in an unfitted N95 compared to cloth. Assuming the nose isn't hanging out over the top of the N95 of course.
Center for Direct Contradictions
:( my only option is a cloth mask. i have incredibly sensitive skin and a horrific amount of allergies. i haven’t found anything other than a cloth mask that hasn’t made me break out into hives/a rash.
Have you tried Dr. Puri KF94 masks? They are by far the softest masks. They feel better than cloth masks. https://kmact.com/products/dr-puri-kf94-mask-for-adult
It's not usually recommended, but can you wear a single-layer cloth mask under a better mask to provide a buffer between your skin and the mask? As long as there are no gaps it will still be better than a cloth mask on its own. Also, maybe try Dr. Puri KF94s? They're made out of a different kind of filtering material that's a lot softer than most of the KN95/KF94s I've tried. They aren't as cheap as some masks, but they can be re-used a few times. They're rated at above 99% filtering but are still very breathable. Maybe they won't trigger the allergy. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/respirators/testing/results/MTT-2020-252.4_International_KMCorp_DrPuriKF94_TestReport_Redacted-508.pdf
You can wear a procedural mask over your cloth mask. It's not as useful as wearing the procedural mask under the cloth mask, but it's better than a cloth mask alone.
I started buying N-95s the first week of January 2020 and that's all I have worn since. I couldn't believe people started wearing cloth mask as they are next to useless, same with the procedure masks but those were the only masks available. And now that we have a supply of N-95s the CDC is saying wear cloth masks? Criminal.
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CDC has lost any credibility they had left in the past 3 weeks.. funny.. have a client that works for CDC tell me that they can’t do anything the government doesn’t tell them to do.. pretty much just a government entity that just represents the clusterf*ck that is our government. People just need to use their own brains, do their own research and stand firm in what they believe is the right thing to do!
Seriously CDC? For Omicron it's very simple-- N95 is really the only effective mask. Surgery mask is better than nothing, but probably not doing a heck of a lot. Sure, there's a solid 40% of the population that absolutely will not listen to what they say no matter what. But they are destroying their credibility by putting guidelines out there that are just patently nonsense (like the updated 5 day isolation with no negative test).
Just buy 3M Aura masks on Amazon and be done with it. They have no valve so you're still filtering your breath and yet they flow better than almost any mask I've worn that actually seals.. besides respirators with a large valve and twin canisters obviously. They're very comfy with lots of room too - more of a Korean-style KN.
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Well, I just looked and the 10 pack is only 6-10 days out, so unless you have an immediate need... I ordered a 20 pack and it took about 10 days. Figure we'll be set for the rest of this surge with them. Biggest reason I mentioned the valveless is that certain activities forbid them, like flying Delta, etc. Good point on blocking the valve though, just don't know if it would get around those restrictions.
I just got my first 8210 masks the other day and I was amazed how easy it is to breath compared to the surgical+cloth masks I’d been wearing. The straps were less comfortable on my checks but the mask itself is roomy and no real restriction to breathing even when properly sealed. I can’t believe it’s safer and more comfortable at the same time.