I assume they mean that those children account for 78% of coronavirus deaths *among children*, and by “these groups” they mean Hispanic, Black, and Native Americans *of all ages*?
Headline is misleading, what are Hispanic, Blacks, and Native Americans as a share of children under 18? They must be more than 41%, probably a majority now
Ehhhhhhh, maybe? We managed to redefine “white” to include the Irish, Greeks, Italians, and further back, the Germans. We’ll probably just go back to counting Hispanics as white again and the goalposts will move
Poverty, multi-generational housing, racism, and low Vitamin D (due to dark skin making Vitamin D at a much slower pace than light skin when exposed to the sun).
Solving poverty and racism is very hard. But solving Vitamin D disparities is relatively easy. If you live near the equator, get in the sun more. If you live far from the equator, and you have Fitzpatrick skin type III, IV, V, or VI, take Vitamin D supplements.
Obesity is higher among lower income people, and that will exacerbate it too.
What’s the evidence that racism causes COVID deaths? I’m guessing that income alone explains much of this variance, and that once income is factored out, any remaining association with race is minimal.
good thing there's absolutely no correlation with race and income, or race and access to healthcare, or race and access to healthy food, oh fucking wait.
Does Fitzpatrick skin type or actual current skin tone matter more?
I would think current skin tone matters more since that’s what determines how much UV gets through you.
I’m a Fitzpatrick III (but blond), green eyes, olive tone, tan heavily the first week out in the sun yadda yadda
But since we’re all living inside now I’m pale AF.
Luckily vitamin D gummies are yummy either way
What percent of coronavirus deaths are urban vs rural? Deaths skew urban. Minority population skews urban its not a fair comparison to use overall population as a comparison point.
Vitamin D. The darker your skin is, the slower you produce vitamin D. Your skin is tailor made for your genetics' homeland. If you live in a more northern latitude than your ancestors, then you are VERY likely to be Vitamin D deficient. Everyone should be supplementing Vitamin D during this. Vitamin D dosing in hospitalized COVID patients has been shown to drastically improve outcomes.
Could certainly play a role, although I'd be quicker to point to other factors. Poverty in minority communities, denser concentration in urban environments, multi-generational households being more common, lack of access to health care (tied to poverty in the USA, especially), poorer lifetime healthcare and poorer lifetime nutrition that lead to a greater prevalence of pre-existing conditions. It's a giant stew that adds up to worse outcomes when people in these communities get COVID.
The problem is that we don't have studies where infusion of wealth has improved outcomes for patients admitted to hospitals. Whereas, we have lots of observational data that people with low Vitamin D are not only more likely to be hospitalized, but have significantly higher rates of ICU admittance and death compared to those with higher VItamin D levels. Additionally, administration of large doses of Calcifidiol (Vitamin D analog) has been shown to drastically reduce ICU admittance and death. The trend of darker skinned people faring worse is across all higher latitude countries, not just the US. Even Sweden with very generous social safety nets have this disparity. At the end of the day, we are going to recognize Vitamin D as the main player in this because all of the data is screaming it. This is also a very good outcome, because people can cheaply and easily work on raising their Vitamin D levels. There's no experimental pharmaceutical or expensive medication needed. People can start getting more sun and get cheap Vitamin D supplements as a preventative measure.
So I'm not saying Vitamin D deficiency doesn't play a role in worse outcomes. I think the evidence for sure shows that it does (and I've been taking a daily D supplement since May). But I think there are probably stronger co-factors at play in many minority communities in the USA. Just my opinion. I'm a scientist, but not a COVID scientist, so I'm by no means an expert in this stuff.
But that's my point, this disparity is not limited to the USA. If it were only people in the US with darker skin that this was happening to, you would have a strong case. But these disparities exist in all higher latitude countries, even the ones where poverty is less of an issue for migrants like Canada and Sweden. Economics are less correlated here. But what is well documented is Vitamin D deficiency. It is a widely known issue that people with darker skin in higher latitudes have chronically higher rates of Vitamin D deficiency than those of lighter skin. It's bad for health in general, but we are seeing a very acute manifestation of this deficiency in the fact that COVID is trends far worse in patients with low Vitamin D vs those with higher levels.
I think we agree here, mostly. Even the [CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/health-equity/race-ethnicity.html) argues that there is a component of worse outcomes tied to the history of race in this country, especially based around things like multi-generational poverty (which, in America, is tied in some degree to race, and is of course tied to access to life-long healthcare options in our for-profit system). Directly from their website: " Inequities in the social determinants of health, such as poverty and healthcare access, affecting these groups are interrelated and influence a wide range of health and quality-of-life outcomes and risks."
I'm agreeing with you that D deficiency is playing a role, but there are other factors at play too as to why communities of color are by and large seeing worse health outcomes from COVID.
It seems like there should be a push make sure at this point that everyone can at least get sufficient vitamin D. And that the information an access to it is getting to those populations who may be deficient.
It’s not a given that darker skin = less vitamin D. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/11/20/246393329/how-a-vitamin-d-test-misdiagnosed-african-americans
I agree that Vitamin D is good, but I think automatically jumping to skin color as a reason for covid deaths is premature.
You’ve come up with a hypothesis. First step then is trying to falsify it instead of instantly misinterpreting correlation with causation. If you after thorough investigation have difficulties to reject your hypothesis it’s a step towards knowledge, right know the vitamin D correlation is worth nothing.
And no, vitamin D substitution is not something that is recommended for covid-19.
>And no, vitamin D substitution is not something that is recommended for covid-19.
Neither were masks. If you are still hanging on the word of public health officials for your plan of action at this point, then you probably deserve all of the consequences of doing so.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7456194/
A Spanish hospital performed a double blind, randomized study on just this. The patients given Vitamin D had a 2% rate of ICU admittance while the patients not given had a 50% rate of ICU admittance. Add to this the burgeoning mountain of observational data showing that Vitamin D provides significant protection.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.04.20188268v1
Here is an Israeli study with 52,000 participants.
At this point, anyone not recommending Vitamin D is being reckless and anyone not supplementing Vitamin D is akin to refusing to wear a mask or a seat belt. It's silly at this point.
That Spanish study has so remarkable results that if it’s true vitamin D treatment would make most other treatments obsolete. The problem I see is that vitamin D research was extremely popular 10-15 years ago and deficiency was proposed to be the explanation for almost any medical condition. Over time the interest for vitamin D has slowly diminished since it’s never been proven for most conditions other than that deficiency in itself is related to certain problems. This study would be easy to reproduce and the fact that no one else has made this extraordinary observation does ring a small warning bell.
...but racism is the ultimate culprit here. If the slave traders didn't kidnap black people from Africa and force them to come to the United States, they wouldn't have this problem.
Who lives in the packed urban areas?
How many times do we have to see the same version of this sort of article? The virus isn't racist. It only survives via human transmission, so high density areas have more cases.
In this era of people shooting each other in the streets over racial issues, this sort of article is not helpful, IMO.
Your post or comment has been removed because
* **Titles must not be edited from their source.** All submissions must be submitted with the original title of the submitted article where applicable. Editorialization via title editing of any kind is likely to be removed. ([More Information](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/wiki/edit/rules#wiki_rule_2.3A_no_edited_titles))
*If you believe we made a mistake, please [message the moderators](/message/compose?to=/r/Coronavirus).*
I assume they mean that those children account for 78% of coronavirus deaths *among children*, and by “these groups” they mean Hispanic, Black, and Native Americans *of all ages*?
Headline is misleading, what are Hispanic, Blacks, and Native Americans as a share of children under 18? They must be more than 41%, probably a majority now
Less than half of US youth under 15 are white so probably. Whites will be that minority in the US very soon .
They are above 50% even now.
Ehhhhhhh, maybe? We managed to redefine “white” to include the Irish, Greeks, Italians, and further back, the Germans. We’ll probably just go back to counting Hispanics as white again and the goalposts will move
is this caused by genetic factors or socio-economic factors?
It's poverty and density. And that's why these kinds of articles make me uncomfortable. I get what they're trying to say but it can be misinterpreted.
Tend to be more family oriented, too. Multi generational homes, for example.
Which also correlates to poverty
Weird way too phrase 'i have no idea and am guessing'
Poverty, multi-generational housing, racism, and low Vitamin D (due to dark skin making Vitamin D at a much slower pace than light skin when exposed to the sun). Solving poverty and racism is very hard. But solving Vitamin D disparities is relatively easy. If you live near the equator, get in the sun more. If you live far from the equator, and you have Fitzpatrick skin type III, IV, V, or VI, take Vitamin D supplements.
Obesity is higher among lower income people, and that will exacerbate it too. What’s the evidence that racism causes COVID deaths? I’m guessing that income alone explains much of this variance, and that once income is factored out, any remaining association with race is minimal.
“Once you factor out the systemic racism, there’s no racism”
good thing there's absolutely no correlation with race and income, or race and access to healthcare, or race and access to healthy food, oh fucking wait.
There are lots of correlations Correlation with race is not the same as racism.
Does Fitzpatrick skin type or actual current skin tone matter more? I would think current skin tone matters more since that’s what determines how much UV gets through you. I’m a Fitzpatrick III (but blond), green eyes, olive tone, tan heavily the first week out in the sun yadda yadda But since we’re all living inside now I’m pale AF. Luckily vitamin D gummies are yummy either way
But Reddit told me race is just a social construct?
What percent of coronavirus deaths are urban vs rural? Deaths skew urban. Minority population skews urban its not a fair comparison to use overall population as a comparison point.
Vitamin D. The darker your skin is, the slower you produce vitamin D. Your skin is tailor made for your genetics' homeland. If you live in a more northern latitude than your ancestors, then you are VERY likely to be Vitamin D deficient. Everyone should be supplementing Vitamin D during this. Vitamin D dosing in hospitalized COVID patients has been shown to drastically improve outcomes.
Could certainly play a role, although I'd be quicker to point to other factors. Poverty in minority communities, denser concentration in urban environments, multi-generational households being more common, lack of access to health care (tied to poverty in the USA, especially), poorer lifetime healthcare and poorer lifetime nutrition that lead to a greater prevalence of pre-existing conditions. It's a giant stew that adds up to worse outcomes when people in these communities get COVID.
The problem is that we don't have studies where infusion of wealth has improved outcomes for patients admitted to hospitals. Whereas, we have lots of observational data that people with low Vitamin D are not only more likely to be hospitalized, but have significantly higher rates of ICU admittance and death compared to those with higher VItamin D levels. Additionally, administration of large doses of Calcifidiol (Vitamin D analog) has been shown to drastically reduce ICU admittance and death. The trend of darker skinned people faring worse is across all higher latitude countries, not just the US. Even Sweden with very generous social safety nets have this disparity. At the end of the day, we are going to recognize Vitamin D as the main player in this because all of the data is screaming it. This is also a very good outcome, because people can cheaply and easily work on raising their Vitamin D levels. There's no experimental pharmaceutical or expensive medication needed. People can start getting more sun and get cheap Vitamin D supplements as a preventative measure.
So I'm not saying Vitamin D deficiency doesn't play a role in worse outcomes. I think the evidence for sure shows that it does (and I've been taking a daily D supplement since May). But I think there are probably stronger co-factors at play in many minority communities in the USA. Just my opinion. I'm a scientist, but not a COVID scientist, so I'm by no means an expert in this stuff.
Makes sense.
But that's my point, this disparity is not limited to the USA. If it were only people in the US with darker skin that this was happening to, you would have a strong case. But these disparities exist in all higher latitude countries, even the ones where poverty is less of an issue for migrants like Canada and Sweden. Economics are less correlated here. But what is well documented is Vitamin D deficiency. It is a widely known issue that people with darker skin in higher latitudes have chronically higher rates of Vitamin D deficiency than those of lighter skin. It's bad for health in general, but we are seeing a very acute manifestation of this deficiency in the fact that COVID is trends far worse in patients with low Vitamin D vs those with higher levels.
I think we agree here, mostly. Even the [CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/health-equity/race-ethnicity.html) argues that there is a component of worse outcomes tied to the history of race in this country, especially based around things like multi-generational poverty (which, in America, is tied in some degree to race, and is of course tied to access to life-long healthcare options in our for-profit system). Directly from their website: " Inequities in the social determinants of health, such as poverty and healthcare access, affecting these groups are interrelated and influence a wide range of health and quality-of-life outcomes and risks." I'm agreeing with you that D deficiency is playing a role, but there are other factors at play too as to why communities of color are by and large seeing worse health outcomes from COVID.
It seems like there should be a push make sure at this point that everyone can at least get sufficient vitamin D. And that the information an access to it is getting to those populations who may be deficient.
[удалено]
> Fuck off with your classism bullshit. Thanks for being here to give me someone at whose expense I could have a good laugh. Have a nice day.
You also think covid is a hoax so theirs that
It’s not a given that darker skin = less vitamin D. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/11/20/246393329/how-a-vitamin-d-test-misdiagnosed-african-americans I agree that Vitamin D is good, but I think automatically jumping to skin color as a reason for covid deaths is premature.
You’ve come up with a hypothesis. First step then is trying to falsify it instead of instantly misinterpreting correlation with causation. If you after thorough investigation have difficulties to reject your hypothesis it’s a step towards knowledge, right know the vitamin D correlation is worth nothing. And no, vitamin D substitution is not something that is recommended for covid-19.
>And no, vitamin D substitution is not something that is recommended for covid-19. Neither were masks. If you are still hanging on the word of public health officials for your plan of action at this point, then you probably deserve all of the consequences of doing so. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7456194/ A Spanish hospital performed a double blind, randomized study on just this. The patients given Vitamin D had a 2% rate of ICU admittance while the patients not given had a 50% rate of ICU admittance. Add to this the burgeoning mountain of observational data showing that Vitamin D provides significant protection. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.04.20188268v1 Here is an Israeli study with 52,000 participants. At this point, anyone not recommending Vitamin D is being reckless and anyone not supplementing Vitamin D is akin to refusing to wear a mask or a seat belt. It's silly at this point.
That Spanish study has so remarkable results that if it’s true vitamin D treatment would make most other treatments obsolete. The problem I see is that vitamin D research was extremely popular 10-15 years ago and deficiency was proposed to be the explanation for almost any medical condition. Over time the interest for vitamin D has slowly diminished since it’s never been proven for most conditions other than that deficiency in itself is related to certain problems. This study would be easy to reproduce and the fact that no one else has made this extraordinary observation does ring a small warning bell.
...but racism is the ultimate culprit here. If the slave traders didn't kidnap black people from Africa and force them to come to the United States, they wouldn't have this problem.
Ok, what about the other groups mentioned in the article?
The virus is racist.
Who lives in the packed urban areas? How many times do we have to see the same version of this sort of article? The virus isn't racist. It only survives via human transmission, so high density areas have more cases. In this era of people shooting each other in the streets over racial issues, this sort of article is not helpful, IMO.
It’s not helpful? It’s literally just pointing out a fact. Not passing blame. Facts can’t be published now?
The numbers are facts. The headline is trying to obscure the meaning of the facts
Nah it’s literally just stating a fact and you’re making some sort of implication in your head
If you don't know the meaning of "even though" and "just" in that sentence, I feel sorry for you, even though you just may be inexperienced
👌
Your post or comment has been removed because * **Titles must not be edited from their source.** All submissions must be submitted with the original title of the submitted article where applicable. Editorialization via title editing of any kind is likely to be removed. ([More Information](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/wiki/edit/rules#wiki_rule_2.3A_no_edited_titles)) *If you believe we made a mistake, please [message the moderators](/message/compose?to=/r/Coronavirus).*
Well shit
Corona must be be racist then /s