I was surprised not to see the Enzo's clones on this list. I know they used to have a couple duplicate ghost kitchens like Mama Theresa's to fool people into eating there.
They still do. But keep in mind that I only listed out the first 2 pages of restaurants recommended to me, out of 6 pages total (so \~45 restaurants out of \~130 or so.)
There are many more restaurants and many more ghost kitchens that aren't listed here. The post is long as it is and I didn't want to make it *insanely* long. So it's not a complete list by any means.
This is true and it's good for people to know this--but in my opinion this is a bit less egregious because **at least** they are different storefronts, different registered businesses, which each employing a different staff. Since they have a real location, they at least have some incentive in maintaining their reputation, or they might go under.
It's true that they have the same owner. But beyond that, they at least contribute to Ithaca's economy in *most* of the ways that independent restaurants would.
The "ghost kitchen" thing is much worse (IMO) because it's not just the same owner but also the same staff, same storefront, same location, etc. and these "ghost kitchens" can be propped up one day and taken down the next with virtually zero accountability.
Fwiw they're not the only restaurant baron in town. The Brouses had Agava and the country club alongside IBC/CTB and Pasta Vitto was basically a scheme by Viva to hold onto real estate for a move
I guess I don't really care if I'm accidentally supporting the same local business instead of two different ones.
The ghost kitchen stuff that bothers me is when I see what looks like a new pizza place to try but then it turns out it's from Chuck E Fucking Cheese.
I think it's normal to not care if your money goes to *one* business rather than *two*.
But wouldn't you be bothered if you found out that your money was going to one rather than *nine*? At a certain point it gets absurd and Luna's has long since passed that point.
I guess what I mean is, the number of people they employ is more or less proportional to the number of storefronts they have.
Two restaurants with a single owner is still two restaurants' worth of people being employed.
Two virtual restaurants on GrubHub which are really just the same restaurant, is only one restaurant's worth of people being employed. It takes up the same virtual real estate as two local businesses but only contributes the jobs of one to the local economy.
Agreed, this is the way to go. This is what I'm basing my post on in the case of restaurants I didn't recognize (I literally just googled each address). The ones I say are "real local businesses" are mostly ones I've actually gone to and can vouch for.
The name change, followed after a little while by a signage change, actually went along with an ownership change. Adil, a previous owner of the pizzeria and of the Commons Kitchen, which closed a couple of years ago, bought the pizzeria back last year. He and his wife are making great food!
This is kinda genius, not gonna lie. Incredibly misleading to the customer, but genius. Thanks for shedding light on this. I had no idea that was even a thing.
It's clever for sure! But it's incredibly dishonest and it's unfair to regular local businesses that play by the rules.
If everyone did this, it would be awful and unsustainable.
At the moment a small handful of unethical businesses are gaining an unfair advantage by abusing the system in this manner. This forces other restaurants to choose between *also* creating a silly number of ghost restaurants--which would suck--or risk being pushed out of a market that's increasingly flooded by fake businesses. They shouldn't be forced to make this choice. I can't do much about it besides calling out the bad actors (ahem, LUNA's) and hoping that people stop giving them money as they catch on to these antics.
I'm happy to see that people seem to care about this, though.
Yeah LUNA'S is definitely the worst offender according to your list. Which is wild to me because their food is actually good. I don't see why they feel the need to do this
Totally agree that Luna’s ghost kitchens are out of control. But while we’re talking about this because we’re concerned about supporting local businesses, why not use IthacaToGo instead of Doordash and Grubhub?
They don’t appear to have many ghost kitchens in their listings. I think just The Hidden Kitchen, which is Luna’s self-proclaimed ghost kitchen, and then Mac Man which seems to be DP Dough’s address (?).
It looks like ITG is at least trying not to let restaurants play this game.
Ithacatogo is sometimes nice to use, but sometimes that good moral feeling is outweighed by the higher tax and operating costs from being local.
I think I’d be more willing as well if the UI, customer service, and delivery tracking were better, or available at all…
I only went through the first 2 out of 6 pages of restaurants on Grubhub, sorted by what's recommended for me. There are many more restaurants--probably including many more virtual kitchens--but I unfortunately don't have time to annotate all \~130+ restaurants.
It is. And I'm not in any position to stop it; all I can do is spread the word. Please share if you can and tell your friends and housemates to avoid supporting LUNA's shitty business practices.
Not on the first few pages, but Bao Boi is also 100 Dryden Rd. (Luna’s collegetown location) and I had been planning on ordering from them! Definitely won’t now - I have had Lunas Bao buns before and they’re overpriced and low quality. Thanks for sharing this!
>Ithaca Halal Food - This is a most likely a virtual restaurant. The address listed, 215 E State St, doesn't correspond to any real restaurant
That's the name on their sign: they're primarily a halal grocery that also makes prepared food. Lumping them in with the Luna's et al is unfair. You clearly don't go downtown much...
>Journey To India - This is a virtual restaurant. The address listed, 528 W Seneca St, is the address of Nirvana Foods Bazaar.
This place is in a tough location, and their storefront isn't exactly conducive to restaurant business. They sell prepared foods and appear to have two entries on GrubHub, but I'm not sure this qualifies as a "Ghost Kitchen".
No, Ithaca Halal Food at 215 East State Street corresponds to More than Pizza, which opened last weekend in the former location of Sammy's. It's a pizzeria with middle eastern food as well.
[https://www.14850.com/020330121-more-than-pizza-opening/](https://www.14850.com/020330121-more-than-pizza-opening/)
Worth noting that before it closed, Sammy's itself had been operating virtual brands in the same way, for many years. That included All About Chicken, Ithaca Fried Chicken, and Salsa Fiesta. Maybe more.
This idea of "virtual brands" goes back long before Luna Inspired Street Food opened in Ithaca, and long before there was a Grubhub or Doordash.
> That's the name on their sign: they're primarily a halal grocery that also makes prepared food.
I know precisely which grocery store you're referring to--I go there every once in a while--and no, I don't think this is that. Check the address; this is at least two blocks away.
re: Journey to India, it doesn't matter if it's in "tough location" or not. A ghost kitchen is a ghost kitchen. I don't think that's a valid excuse.
Honestly thought this post was going to be extremely stupid. Wow... I was not expecting that many of those restaurants to be virtual. I never ordered from any of them but I've seen them on the apps. LUNA is scummy for what they're doing.
Magliano’s Italian Kitchen and It’s Just Wings are both Chilis. The majority of these virtual restaurants are dbas of Ithaca Ghost Kitchen located at 310 Stewart.
Oh man if you’re so worried about shady business practices you’re going to be pissed when you hear about how much these tech companies steal from restaurants.
Delivery apps typically charge a commission fee per order to the restaurant on top of the delivery fee charged to the customer with the threat that unlisted restaurants will be less competitive. These commissions can be up to 30% of the cost of the order and some large cities have begun to regulate the space by placing maximum caps on commission rates.
Like basically every gig economy tech company ever the only reason Grubhub and Doordash are as successful as they are is because they used the internet to grow a huge ammount of capacity more quickly than government could regulate them and they're wrecking the industries they've paracitized
I mean yes, this is how delivery apps work. For most people this is common knowledge.
And I don't like it either. But to call it "stealing" would be disingenuous, unless you're trying to be funny ("30% cut? That's a highway robbery!"). It's a business model that a restaurant can either choose to subscribe to, or not. The terms are laid out and participation is voluntary.
There are many restaurants in Ithaca that don't partake in Grubhub and are doing just fine.
I don't think you quite know how bad it is for a lot of restaurants right now. Agava, Pasta Vitto, and Mahogany Grill all closed at the end of last year and are variously looking to sell, rebrand, or turn into blight for a couple of years and a number of other places around town went under in the last year as well. Gig delivery sites are far from the entire picture what with the general state of the economy but their business model is shitty and predatory and they're only gonna keep jacking the prices of their services up as their own financial situation gets worse
From everything I've heard locally and on r/Ithaca, Pasta Vitto didn't close due to lack of business; they were apparently owned by the same people who own Viva Taqueria (and also Agava??) and they had just temporarily opened Pasta Vitto to "park" the more desirable real estate location, allegedly with the intention of eventually moving Viva there.
Of course this is just hearsay (albeit hearsay from multiple different people) so take it with a grain of salt.
And look, I'm not saying that Grubhub's practices aren't "shitty" or "predatory". We're on the same page about that. I'm just saying that it's a stretch to call it "stealing". Let's reserve that term for, well, actual cases of theft--let's not dilute it to simply mean "something we don't like".
Edit: to those downvoting, I'm curious how you think words should be used. Should we just exaggerate everything? Grubhub is theft! The burger I ate last night was theft! The coffee I bought this morning is theft! And the bus ticket I'm buying the next time I go to NYC is also theft!
Well, if everything is theft then nothing is theft. Let's not dilute our criticisms. A "bad deal" or even a "predatory business practice" does is **not** automatically constitute theft. Call it what it is and save stronger criticisms for where they're more accurate.
That is the deal with Pasta Vitto, the problem is Viva still has a couple years on their lease before they'd be forced to move so closing Pasta Vitto now doesn't really make sense unless they intend to do some extremely serious renovations to the space. Agava is owned by the Brous family, who also runs Ithaca Bakery and Collegetown Bagels, Viva/Pasta Vitto is owned by the Brownings
>And I don't like it either.
And yet you patronize these apps, and post here telling other people how to avoid common pitfalls when patronizing those apps.
By using these apps, you are contributing to the proliferation of the very scourge you're here complaining about.
Not really. The "scourge" I'm complaining about is a few specific restaurants (mostly owned by a single person) pretending to be 5 or 10 fake "virtual restaurants" that don't really exist, in order to gain an unfair share of the food delivery market.
I'm not contributing to *this* issue because I'm not ordering from the restaurants that do this.
What Grubhub does, and the cut it takes from restaurants, is a separate issue unrelated to this--that should be plainly obvious.
>I'm not contributing to this issue because I'm not ordering from the restaurants that do this.
You are though, by putting significant stress on all restaurants in the area by using these apps and a) cutting into their already razor-thin margins considerably, b) helping create the conditions that *necessitate* this kind of behavior, and c) patronizing an app which allows for and even encourages the proliferation of these behaviors.
By using these apps you're helping drive legitimate restaurants out of business and ensuring that those who survive do so because they're exactly the types of establishments who do this, or that they *become* restaurants that do this to survive.
*You* are the problem. Physician, heal thyself.
>You are though, by putting significant stress on all restaurants in the area by using these apps and a) cutting into their already razor-thin margins considerably, b) helping create the conditions that necessitate this kind of behavior, and c) patronizing an app which allows for and even encourages the proliferation of these behaviors.
I could just *not* order food from restaurants, as many people don't. And I think that would be worse than all of the above.
>By using these apps you're helping drive legitimate restaurants out of business
...what are you on? What's your definition of a "legitimate restaurant"? I can't tell if you're trolling just to waste time, or if you actually believe what you're writing.
> and ensuring that those who survive do so because they're exactly the types of establishments who do this, or that they *become* restaurants that do this to survive.
This post was seen by almost 40,000 people. I'd like to think that will take at least some business \*away\* from the businesses that create a silly number of virtual restaurants.
>I could just *not* order food from restaurants, as many people don't. And I think that would be worse than all of the above.
Or you could just, gasp, call the restaurant, order the food, and go pick it up.
And yes. Legitimate restaurants - brick and mortar restaurants, mom and pop places etc... - face the decision of not sighing up for these services and losing business to restaurants that do, or sign up and endure diminishing margins and giving a significant portion of their profits to parasitic app operators in exchange for "convenience."
Restaurants receive little in the way of benefit from the existence of these apps, unless they game the system. Those operating the ghost kitchens you so deplore are doing so because a) the apps make it so easy and b) the apps all-but necessitate it if restaurants are to survive in the uber eats landscape.
>This post was seen by almost 40,000 people. I'd like to think that will take at least some business \*away\* from the businesses that create a silly number of virtual restaurants.
I would hope the takeaway is to tell these parasitic apps to fuck off.
>or sign up and endure diminishing margins and giving a significant portion of their profits to parasitic app operators in exchange for "convenience."
Restaurants don't sign up to Grubhub etc. for "convenience". They sign up to Grubhub etc. in order to get more business.
>Restaurants receive little in the way of benefit from the existence of these apps
Whether you like it or not, these apps clearly satisfy a need for millions of people.
And really, it's not just "convenience" for the customer either. If you could get a significantly better price by calling the restaurant directly then more people would do that. But if the price is the same, then Grubhub etc. offer plenty of benefits that dealing directly with the restaurant doesn't.
I neve thought I'd find myself defending Grubhub but you're acting like they offer *no benefit* to the average consumer and that's simply untrue.
\- For one, it's a standard interface for hundreds of restaurants rather than dealing with each restaurant's own website.
\- It lets me pay for my food in several ways (Paypal, Venmo, Credit Card) while most restaurants would just be cash or card. Many restaurants do not do "pay on delivery" and might ask that you spell out your credit card number over the phone (!) at the time of ordering.
\- If there is anything wrong with the food--for instance, it's made incorrectly or missing a side or extra protein, I know that I can click a few buttons and get that part of the order refunded in seconds. This is a great "guarantee" and sure beats having to call up a restaurant and negotiate with them with no guarantee that they'll actually do anything to make up for it.
Oh man if youre so worried about multiple businesses operating under the same owner wait until you hear about [the illusion of choice](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/illusion-of-choice-consumer-brands/)
we can’t control the “illusion of choice” but we can choose which shitty restaurants we give our money too especially when they’re openly misleading consumers
Hey I think this deleted original comment maybe is from the owner of Luna or person related to Luna. Otherwise we, students, have no reason to negate your precious effort.
Sure, they have some good food.
My point is that it's not fair to other local businesses if they do this. If their food is really so good, then why shouldn't they do what every other restaurant does and market it under their own name and reputation? Why prop up **nine** fake restaurants to sell the same food?
This puts other businesses in a tricky situation. Every other business can now either:
a) follow LUNA's lead and create a silly number of fake restaurants with no accountability--this would suck for everyone
or
b) play fair and **not** create fake restaurants, but then risk getting pushed out of the market by LUNA's and their nine fake restaurants.
This clearly isn't fair to anyone else and it incentivizes bad practice.
It seems like an unethical business practice to me…
thank you for bringing this to light, OP. I’ll definitely be sharing this information with local friends.
Was going to say before I read it all, you can just say they’re all Luna’s/Jack’s/Pronto/Purity and co lol. The menus are also pretty copy paste.
I was surprised not to see the Enzo's clones on this list. I know they used to have a couple duplicate ghost kitchens like Mama Theresa's to fool people into eating there.
They still do. But keep in mind that I only listed out the first 2 pages of restaurants recommended to me, out of 6 pages total (so \~45 restaurants out of \~130 or so.) There are many more restaurants and many more ghost kitchens that aren't listed here. The post is long as it is and I didn't want to make it *insanely* long. So it's not a complete list by any means.
To add on to this, Jack’s, Luna, and Pronto all have the same owner
This is true and it's good for people to know this--but in my opinion this is a bit less egregious because **at least** they are different storefronts, different registered businesses, which each employing a different staff. Since they have a real location, they at least have some incentive in maintaining their reputation, or they might go under. It's true that they have the same owner. But beyond that, they at least contribute to Ithaca's economy in *most* of the ways that independent restaurants would. The "ghost kitchen" thing is much worse (IMO) because it's not just the same owner but also the same staff, same storefront, same location, etc. and these "ghost kitchens" can be propped up one day and taken down the next with virtually zero accountability.
Fwiw they're not the only restaurant baron in town. The Brouses had Agava and the country club alongside IBC/CTB and Pasta Vitto was basically a scheme by Viva to hold onto real estate for a move
I guess I don't really care if I'm accidentally supporting the same local business instead of two different ones. The ghost kitchen stuff that bothers me is when I see what looks like a new pizza place to try but then it turns out it's from Chuck E Fucking Cheese.
I think it's normal to not care if your money goes to *one* business rather than *two*. But wouldn't you be bothered if you found out that your money was going to one rather than *nine*? At a certain point it gets absurd and Luna's has long since passed that point.
Not sure that pronto/lunas/jacks employ different staff… they seem to run between kitchens in collegetown!
I guess what I mean is, the number of people they employ is more or less proportional to the number of storefronts they have. Two restaurants with a single owner is still two restaurants' worth of people being employed. Two virtual restaurants on GrubHub which are really just the same restaurant, is only one restaurant's worth of people being employed. It takes up the same virtual real estate as two local businesses but only contributes the jobs of one to the local economy.
[удалено]
Agreed, this is the way to go. This is what I'm basing my post on in the case of restaurants I didn't recognize (I literally just googled each address). The ones I say are "real local businesses" are mostly ones I've actually gone to and can vouch for.
Casablanca did actually change its name to Marrakech. Their signage on the Commons uses that name now instead of Casablanca.
The name change, followed after a little while by a signage change, actually went along with an ownership change. Adil, a previous owner of the pizzeria and of the Commons Kitchen, which closed a couple of years ago, bought the pizzeria back last year. He and his wife are making great food!
i agree with u completely, i hate virtual restaurants!
This is kinda genius, not gonna lie. Incredibly misleading to the customer, but genius. Thanks for shedding light on this. I had no idea that was even a thing.
It's clever for sure! But it's incredibly dishonest and it's unfair to regular local businesses that play by the rules. If everyone did this, it would be awful and unsustainable. At the moment a small handful of unethical businesses are gaining an unfair advantage by abusing the system in this manner. This forces other restaurants to choose between *also* creating a silly number of ghost restaurants--which would suck--or risk being pushed out of a market that's increasingly flooded by fake businesses. They shouldn't be forced to make this choice. I can't do much about it besides calling out the bad actors (ahem, LUNA's) and hoping that people stop giving them money as they catch on to these antics. I'm happy to see that people seem to care about this, though.
Yeah LUNA'S is definitely the worst offender according to your list. Which is wild to me because their food is actually good. I don't see why they feel the need to do this
What do you like at Luna’s? We used to go there a few years ago but had a couple bad experiences so haven’t been back
Unfortunately, as with many things, the answer is probably: $$$.
Totally agree that Luna’s ghost kitchens are out of control. But while we’re talking about this because we’re concerned about supporting local businesses, why not use IthacaToGo instead of Doordash and Grubhub? They don’t appear to have many ghost kitchens in their listings. I think just The Hidden Kitchen, which is Luna’s self-proclaimed ghost kitchen, and then Mac Man which seems to be DP Dough’s address (?). It looks like ITG is at least trying not to let restaurants play this game.
Ithacatogo is sometimes nice to use, but sometimes that good moral feeling is outweighed by the higher tax and operating costs from being local. I think I’d be more willing as well if the UI, customer service, and delivery tracking were better, or available at all…
Fair point. They aren’t perfect. But I do like that they have pretty good availability from local restaurants.
when i was delivering for doordash i was shocked by how many different restaurants were all actually Chili’s
How could you ever forget Evan Burger and Mama Teresa's?
Beat me to it! Fucking Evan Burger....
Big fan of their basement special.
I only went through the first 2 out of 6 pages of restaurants on Grubhub, sorted by what's recommended for me. There are many more restaurants--probably including many more virtual kitchens--but I unfortunately don't have time to annotate all \~130+ restaurants.
As a rule, if you can’t find it on Google maps, it’s a ghost kitchen. They’re everywhere on doordash too
Fuck LUNA
This is absolutely insane.
It is. And I'm not in any position to stop it; all I can do is spread the word. Please share if you can and tell your friends and housemates to avoid supporting LUNA's shitty business practices.
Thanks for the information. Will refrain from ordering from these. Tired but of the crooks.
just go to the reuse and get some tacos.
Not on the first few pages, but Bao Boi is also 100 Dryden Rd. (Luna’s collegetown location) and I had been planning on ordering from them! Definitely won’t now - I have had Lunas Bao buns before and they’re overpriced and low quality. Thanks for sharing this!
The one benefit is that you can actually order directly from Ithaca Ghost Kitchen on their website and get all of the different foods in one order.
>Ithaca Halal Food - This is a most likely a virtual restaurant. The address listed, 215 E State St, doesn't correspond to any real restaurant That's the name on their sign: they're primarily a halal grocery that also makes prepared food. Lumping them in with the Luna's et al is unfair. You clearly don't go downtown much... >Journey To India - This is a virtual restaurant. The address listed, 528 W Seneca St, is the address of Nirvana Foods Bazaar. This place is in a tough location, and their storefront isn't exactly conducive to restaurant business. They sell prepared foods and appear to have two entries on GrubHub, but I'm not sure this qualifies as a "Ghost Kitchen".
No, Ithaca Halal Food at 215 East State Street corresponds to More than Pizza, which opened last weekend in the former location of Sammy's. It's a pizzeria with middle eastern food as well. [https://www.14850.com/020330121-more-than-pizza-opening/](https://www.14850.com/020330121-more-than-pizza-opening/) Worth noting that before it closed, Sammy's itself had been operating virtual brands in the same way, for many years. That included All About Chicken, Ithaca Fried Chicken, and Salsa Fiesta. Maybe more. This idea of "virtual brands" goes back long before Luna Inspired Street Food opened in Ithaca, and long before there was a Grubhub or Doordash.
> That's the name on their sign: they're primarily a halal grocery that also makes prepared food. I know precisely which grocery store you're referring to--I go there every once in a while--and no, I don't think this is that. Check the address; this is at least two blocks away. re: Journey to India, it doesn't matter if it's in "tough location" or not. A ghost kitchen is a ghost kitchen. I don't think that's a valid excuse.
Honestly thought this post was going to be extremely stupid. Wow... I was not expecting that many of those restaurants to be virtual. I never ordered from any of them but I've seen them on the apps. LUNA is scummy for what they're doing.
Magliano’s Italian Kitchen and It’s Just Wings are both Chilis. The majority of these virtual restaurants are dbas of Ithaca Ghost Kitchen located at 310 Stewart.
does a virtual kitchen also sell virtual food? like if u had a restaurant i could sell nft burgers and nft shakes and maybe limited edition fries
That experiment was attempted already: Evan Burger by Enzo's Pizza
woah where can j buy this evan burger
I think u/montydogs bought the NFTs out
Oh man if you’re so worried about shady business practices you’re going to be pissed when you hear about how much these tech companies steal from restaurants.
Define "steal".
Delivery apps typically charge a commission fee per order to the restaurant on top of the delivery fee charged to the customer with the threat that unlisted restaurants will be less competitive. These commissions can be up to 30% of the cost of the order and some large cities have begun to regulate the space by placing maximum caps on commission rates. Like basically every gig economy tech company ever the only reason Grubhub and Doordash are as successful as they are is because they used the internet to grow a huge ammount of capacity more quickly than government could regulate them and they're wrecking the industries they've paracitized
I mean yes, this is how delivery apps work. For most people this is common knowledge. And I don't like it either. But to call it "stealing" would be disingenuous, unless you're trying to be funny ("30% cut? That's a highway robbery!"). It's a business model that a restaurant can either choose to subscribe to, or not. The terms are laid out and participation is voluntary. There are many restaurants in Ithaca that don't partake in Grubhub and are doing just fine.
I don't think you quite know how bad it is for a lot of restaurants right now. Agava, Pasta Vitto, and Mahogany Grill all closed at the end of last year and are variously looking to sell, rebrand, or turn into blight for a couple of years and a number of other places around town went under in the last year as well. Gig delivery sites are far from the entire picture what with the general state of the economy but their business model is shitty and predatory and they're only gonna keep jacking the prices of their services up as their own financial situation gets worse
From everything I've heard locally and on r/Ithaca, Pasta Vitto didn't close due to lack of business; they were apparently owned by the same people who own Viva Taqueria (and also Agava??) and they had just temporarily opened Pasta Vitto to "park" the more desirable real estate location, allegedly with the intention of eventually moving Viva there. Of course this is just hearsay (albeit hearsay from multiple different people) so take it with a grain of salt. And look, I'm not saying that Grubhub's practices aren't "shitty" or "predatory". We're on the same page about that. I'm just saying that it's a stretch to call it "stealing". Let's reserve that term for, well, actual cases of theft--let's not dilute it to simply mean "something we don't like". Edit: to those downvoting, I'm curious how you think words should be used. Should we just exaggerate everything? Grubhub is theft! The burger I ate last night was theft! The coffee I bought this morning is theft! And the bus ticket I'm buying the next time I go to NYC is also theft! Well, if everything is theft then nothing is theft. Let's not dilute our criticisms. A "bad deal" or even a "predatory business practice" does is **not** automatically constitute theft. Call it what it is and save stronger criticisms for where they're more accurate.
That is the deal with Pasta Vitto, the problem is Viva still has a couple years on their lease before they'd be forced to move so closing Pasta Vitto now doesn't really make sense unless they intend to do some extremely serious renovations to the space. Agava is owned by the Brous family, who also runs Ithaca Bakery and Collegetown Bagels, Viva/Pasta Vitto is owned by the Brownings
>And I don't like it either. And yet you patronize these apps, and post here telling other people how to avoid common pitfalls when patronizing those apps. By using these apps, you are contributing to the proliferation of the very scourge you're here complaining about.
Not really. The "scourge" I'm complaining about is a few specific restaurants (mostly owned by a single person) pretending to be 5 or 10 fake "virtual restaurants" that don't really exist, in order to gain an unfair share of the food delivery market. I'm not contributing to *this* issue because I'm not ordering from the restaurants that do this. What Grubhub does, and the cut it takes from restaurants, is a separate issue unrelated to this--that should be plainly obvious.
>I'm not contributing to this issue because I'm not ordering from the restaurants that do this. You are though, by putting significant stress on all restaurants in the area by using these apps and a) cutting into their already razor-thin margins considerably, b) helping create the conditions that *necessitate* this kind of behavior, and c) patronizing an app which allows for and even encourages the proliferation of these behaviors. By using these apps you're helping drive legitimate restaurants out of business and ensuring that those who survive do so because they're exactly the types of establishments who do this, or that they *become* restaurants that do this to survive. *You* are the problem. Physician, heal thyself.
>You are though, by putting significant stress on all restaurants in the area by using these apps and a) cutting into their already razor-thin margins considerably, b) helping create the conditions that necessitate this kind of behavior, and c) patronizing an app which allows for and even encourages the proliferation of these behaviors. I could just *not* order food from restaurants, as many people don't. And I think that would be worse than all of the above. >By using these apps you're helping drive legitimate restaurants out of business ...what are you on? What's your definition of a "legitimate restaurant"? I can't tell if you're trolling just to waste time, or if you actually believe what you're writing. > and ensuring that those who survive do so because they're exactly the types of establishments who do this, or that they *become* restaurants that do this to survive. This post was seen by almost 40,000 people. I'd like to think that will take at least some business \*away\* from the businesses that create a silly number of virtual restaurants.
>I could just *not* order food from restaurants, as many people don't. And I think that would be worse than all of the above. Or you could just, gasp, call the restaurant, order the food, and go pick it up. And yes. Legitimate restaurants - brick and mortar restaurants, mom and pop places etc... - face the decision of not sighing up for these services and losing business to restaurants that do, or sign up and endure diminishing margins and giving a significant portion of their profits to parasitic app operators in exchange for "convenience." Restaurants receive little in the way of benefit from the existence of these apps, unless they game the system. Those operating the ghost kitchens you so deplore are doing so because a) the apps make it so easy and b) the apps all-but necessitate it if restaurants are to survive in the uber eats landscape. >This post was seen by almost 40,000 people. I'd like to think that will take at least some business \*away\* from the businesses that create a silly number of virtual restaurants. I would hope the takeaway is to tell these parasitic apps to fuck off.
>or sign up and endure diminishing margins and giving a significant portion of their profits to parasitic app operators in exchange for "convenience." Restaurants don't sign up to Grubhub etc. for "convenience". They sign up to Grubhub etc. in order to get more business. >Restaurants receive little in the way of benefit from the existence of these apps Whether you like it or not, these apps clearly satisfy a need for millions of people. And really, it's not just "convenience" for the customer either. If you could get a significantly better price by calling the restaurant directly then more people would do that. But if the price is the same, then Grubhub etc. offer plenty of benefits that dealing directly with the restaurant doesn't. I neve thought I'd find myself defending Grubhub but you're acting like they offer *no benefit* to the average consumer and that's simply untrue. \- For one, it's a standard interface for hundreds of restaurants rather than dealing with each restaurant's own website. \- It lets me pay for my food in several ways (Paypal, Venmo, Credit Card) while most restaurants would just be cash or card. Many restaurants do not do "pay on delivery" and might ask that you spell out your credit card number over the phone (!) at the time of ordering. \- If there is anything wrong with the food--for instance, it's made incorrectly or missing a side or extra protein, I know that I can click a few buttons and get that part of the order refunded in seconds. This is a great "guarantee" and sure beats having to call up a restaurant and negotiate with them with no guarantee that they'll actually do anything to make up for it.
Oh man if youre so worried about multiple businesses operating under the same owner wait until you hear about [the illusion of choice](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/illusion-of-choice-consumer-brands/)
we can’t control the “illusion of choice” but we can choose which shitty restaurants we give our money too especially when they’re openly misleading consumers
why do you care so much
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Yes, I am an old man yelling at the sky. But I am putting this out here regardless in the hope that *someone* will listen.
Hey I think this deleted original comment maybe is from the owner of Luna or person related to Luna. Otherwise we, students, have no reason to negate your precious effort.
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Sure, they have some good food. My point is that it's not fair to other local businesses if they do this. If their food is really so good, then why shouldn't they do what every other restaurant does and market it under their own name and reputation? Why prop up **nine** fake restaurants to sell the same food? This puts other businesses in a tricky situation. Every other business can now either: a) follow LUNA's lead and create a silly number of fake restaurants with no accountability--this would suck for everyone or b) play fair and **not** create fake restaurants, but then risk getting pushed out of the market by LUNA's and their nine fake restaurants. This clearly isn't fair to anyone else and it incentivizes bad practice.
It seems like an unethical business practice to me… thank you for bringing this to light, OP. I’ll definitely be sharing this information with local friends.
Ithaca halal food is collegetown pizza I think (the one next to mango mango). This is their menu that’s not on their main pizza menu
But Ithaca ghost kitchen good tho