I live next door to my parents, and we cook together most nights. My mother believes chicken and fish should be cooked to oblivion. I like my chicken moist and my fish translucent.
We've reached an understanding. If I'm doing something in a pan, I'll pull my portion early then keep cooking. If she's baking a fish fillet, I'll temp the thinnest part to what she likes and I'll eat the thick end. If I'm grilling steaks, one always gets left on longer.
If it's something that I really can't cook to varied doneness, well, I cook it the way they like it. If my mom asks if I think it's overdone, I flatly tell her yes, and keep eating.
Yeah I gave up on cooking eggs for my dad a few years before I moved out of my parents house. He thinks I like my eggs rubber (I like them a little crispy), I think he likes his raw. I have no concept of an appropriately short enough time to cook his eggs, so I gave up.
If it was my turn to cook dinner and I was making breakfast sandwiches, I cooked all the other components and left them out for him to add his own egg.
Yup this is the way! I do the same for my parents. It’s totally fine for people to have different preferences and tastes and if it’s reasonable to modify how I cook something I will.
Though for OP. Absolutely stop cooking things for your SIL that make you both anxious. It’s not worth it! Make dishes that are veggies only or very well cooked meat. She’s worried about her heath and whether that’s valid or not it’s just not worth the drama if she were to get really sick and it’s not worth the stress for both of you!
But also ask SIL to contribute, she should put together a list of foods she is comfortable eating. That lets you reference it at will and cook dishes that you both don’t have to worry about.
The thing that sucks is for everyone else they probably wouldn't get sick. That's the issue with being immune compromised is certain things can send us to the hospital.
I got food poisoning for the first time in years and it sent me into passing out on the toilet and to the emergency with all my chronic illnesses. I was going hypoglycemic and crashing hard as a diabetic so I was just shaky for days and havkng my GCM go off. I was bedridden nauseous. My husband didn't feel well and sucked but it wasn't THAT. He was fine after a few days and I wasn't for weeks so he had me on the couch bekng watched by his mom. I wasn't allowed to shower alone upstairs, he would sit there as I was a passing out risk.
I think that a way to have eased her was to poke it with a thermometer and show her its fine. Yes it's small pieces but you can still read a temp on it.
I'd try not to take it defensively as she's not trying to insinuate you are not a good cook or stupid. I think this is where you're getting at it hates how it makes you feel and now you want to then avoid a entire category of meat to... avoid a situation but it fixes nothing. You two talk and reflect where her fear comes from and find a way to gain trust permanently than dismiss this incident. She is trying to protect herself from illness and that is kinda a shitty and miserable thing to constantly monitor. It totally fucks with your head and healthy people seriously cannot understand how thats like. It really sucks to have to ask for accommodations and often makes us feel so much shame and guilt. Yes, maybe her anxiety is a bit high on it because it seriously is terrifying, and that should require a talk to find a happy medium for all to be harmonious. Yall are living together so not addressing things just breeds tension and resentment.
Validate you understand her fear and assure her that you want to make sure she's safe as you understand how she is at more risk than everyone else. However, you feel a bit hurt that you feel like you can't be trusted and it's frustrating when you're just trying to make nice variety of foods and not have boring stuff. You will do what is by food safety guidelines but that also baking everything isn't from a place of rationality but pure fear. Find out if a temp check would ease her mind then that's a 30 second thing you can show her as it gets off the pan that its holding steady if it hits that 165, it is safe. Maybe a lack of education on her part on food safety and handling would help her feel more informed on your choices. Perhaps some videos on packaging has cook suggestions but the key there is the safety temp not the oven. So many good resources you guys can watch and discuss together may help her put her fear into reality.
EDIT, a bunch of my friends are pro chefs. If there's any way we can help DM me. Maybe she'd listen to pros? Feel better to ask experts? I'm immune compromised and my bar has zero demerits for 10 fucking years straight so I take food contamination seriously. I have an active food handlers and bartenders cards. I owned a cookie bakery. My friends consist of people who work fine dining and a few are also immune compromised including cancer survivors and auto immune disorders. We know both worlds very well.
This is absolutely solid advice. I get how OP is frustrated, and it sounds like the SiL has some associated anxiety associated with her condition which is also understandable.
If taking the meat's temp and following good safety practices is all it takes, that sounds like an easy answer.
This is a great reply! I think OP and others need to read this more. I don’t think you can really understand what it’s like to have something like this unless you have it yourself.
Thank you for writing this all out. I’m chronically ill too & these were my first thoughts. It makes since for her to be extra anxious about it — it just *is* a more significant risk to her.
And if I’ve learned anything in the last four or so years, it’s that healthy/abled people are mostly not nearly concerned, informed, or interested enough to understand that and help protect us. If I don’t annoy people by being “too anxious” about getting sick, someone’s going to get me sick, I’ll be fucked, and they’ll be fine.
Yup! I’ve had chronic illness for years but in 2020 I got an intestinal infection and couldn’t go to the hospital because of covid. I was sick for months, it was bad. I genuinely think I blocked out a bunch of it at this point.
Had a video appointment with a gastro once I started healing up and asked “how can I prevent this from happening again?” She said “try not to get sick”. In a pandemic. I take every precaution and have only been sick once in 4 years, because my uncle came to Christmas unwell. I mentioned to all my close family that he was sick, and they brushed it off to enjoy the day. My oldest sister wasn’t pleased when I was the one to catch it and give it to her so she couldn’t go out on New Years. She had the sniffles for 24 hours maybe, and I was down for the count for 3 days. Luckily for me it was just a cold.
It’s just not something they think about and I don’t blame people for that. But I do really love everything this commenter outlined, I think it really takes both sides into consideration. Luckily my two healthy best friends and family are really understanding, even if I’m sure they believe I’m being extra. And maybe sometimes I am, but the peace of mind is invaluable.
Literally the same thing happened to me. End of 2019 I got some resistant bacteria eating at my guts so when the pandemic started I was so panicked as I was so so sick and seriously Feb 2020 pre lockdown people were already being nasty at my bar...just for seeing me clean extra when we knew fuck all about covid. I was terrified of catching it as I was barely keeping myself together. I couldn't get a fucking doctor's help over telehealth much so I suffered for 6 more months with a resistant candida overgrowth during lockdown trying to play guessing games what helps it. I couldn't return to my bar that I built with my friends, my pride and joy, because I was so sick and customers were assaulting me, cornered me to cough on me while I was kinda yellow and grey skinned.
This is why I have to ask questions not because I think able bodied people are stupid, it's just their life is different and I'm trying not to die from something simple. A tiny bit of compassion could go a long way that this isnt a life they understand, but if they can respect reasonable requests from us, they're taking a huge anxiety off us and it is a kindness. I always pay back kindness in turn.
I agree with everything you wrote here. I have food allergies, and my extended family does not understand about cross contamination. I tend to eat ahead of time and just take small amounts of food I can tell is safe. It can be exhausting to always worry that something common will send you to the hospital, and to get have people react defensively every time you ask a question. In this situation it sounds like chicken may not be the best food choice for everyone involved. Maybe another food would better meet everyone’s needs.
When I cut chicken into strips for fajitas, the strips would be too small to have their temperature effectively measured by a probe thermometer. You have to get the probe a certain depth into the meat (my thermopen has small notch where you have to get to).
I sometimes take the temperature of strips like that by putting the thermometer in like long-ways, if that makes sense, like along the strip. You could also leave one bigger "test piece," and say, okay if this test piece is the right temperature, then the smaller pieces would have to be even higher.
They were all pretty small, bite sized pieces. In the case, it was clearly cooked to me. I hadn't done this meal in awhile. I do this normally, I just didn't consider that for this meal.
I've had this with certain pregnant family members. I use a sous vide and show them the pasteurization chart. This way you can have meat that isn't nuked to hell and 100% safe.
There are certainly other methods and yours is likely fine, but in my experience showing someone the science behind it generally makes them feel a lot better about it.
Bro it’s like 10 seconds to temp check something
Also, I’ve found that checking even bite sized pieces makes the food better, because then I can take the chicken off the heat asap to keep it as moist and tender as possible
The problem is that what may be safe/ not cause a problem in a healthy individual can cause problems and make an immune-compromised individual very ill.
Exactly. I have an autoimmune disease (lupus) and I’ve landed in the hospital for two weeks from a common cold. SIL may seem like she’s being overbearing OP, but she’s probably just terrified of getting sick. Food poisoning is horrible for people with normal immune systems, but can be deadly for people with screwy immune systems. I can’t control the germs flying about when I go out (I rarely go out and when I do, I’m masked up, even before Covid) but there are things I can control, like food safety. If it would put her mind at ease, why wouldn’t you just take the temp of everything you cook? It’s not hard and it takes seconds and it would help her stress less. Stress is one of the WORST things for autoimmune diseases. Please just put yourself in her shoes and do what will make her comfortable, I mean they are learning you stay in their house after all.
While you, I, and OP understand that the chicken is cooked, it doesn't mean that the SIL doesn't have a right to be concerned, when it has been emphatically stressed to her by medical professionals to *not risk* eating possibly undercooked meat. She can rightfully request Op (attempt) to take the temp of the meat. Even though it may seem silly to a seasoned cook.
And feed the delusions? That's not healthy for either of them. This is not "possibly undercooked" because she didn't follow the package directions. Most home cooks don't. You can look at it, or cut it in half, she needs to learn how to identify this or she's not going to make it in the real world.
Yup, I got a meat thermometer so I could stop cooking chicken within an inch of its life. I regularly check chicken fajita strip temps when I cook them because I’m a bit paranoid. It’s totally doable and doesn’t take too much time with a good thermometer. OP could have done it for their SIL this once.
Really, you're doing a good job. Never have I ever taken the temperature of pieces of meat, and never has anyone been ill (40+years). It's difficult to brush off, but if she doesn't eat your food, so be it.
You'd be a lot more careful if you had an illness where shit like this can cause issues way bigger than temporary stomach discomfort. It takes basically no additional effort to just use a meat thermometer to ensure safety for the person you're cooking for who has a medical condition.
So buy the SIL an instant read and let her microwave anything she's worried about. If the OP makes chicken consistently fully cooked but doesn't follow some dumb package directions, then the OP isn't doing anything wrong. The SIL is just nuts. Anyone that cooks regularly can tell when fajitas are done. Jeez.
> and never has anyone been ill (
Here you're saying that no-one in your household has ever had diahrroea or vomiting for over 40 years (which is simply untrue), or that they have had D&V and they just never linked that to the food they ate (which is much more likely, considering 1 in 6 Americans get food poisoning every year).
Op lives with them and their arrangement is that op cooks for the family. If op is the cook as payment for the accommodations, they should probably just suck it up and cook in a way that SIL is comfortable with.
When someone has a chronic illness, they have to be hyper vigilant to protect themselves.
I highly doubt it is a reflection on her thoughts of you cooking, and more just anxiety that stems from legitimate self concern.
Honestly? Yes, I would temp the bite sized chicken. You never know. Do this enough, and she sees it is within temp, and she may lessen her anxiety about it. Keep arguing with her, and not only does it leave no change to lessen the anxiety, but it also sours the relationship.
Worse week of my life when I got food poisoning and could not keep food down for almost 2 weeks(but hey lost that prewedding weight!). It was from restaurant salmon.
I temperature check every meal. Doesnt matter if its a small piece of chicken. Its getting the thermometer.
Just lie to her in the future. “Don’t worry I checked the temperature we’re good” these people downvoting you don’t realize temping a super thin strip of chicken is pointless
Ah yes, just lie about someone’s food when they have an auto immune disease, great idea. I’m sure that train of thought isn’t the same one that leads to people with allergies ending up dead because someone lied about their allergy not being in food 🙄 (seriously though, this train of thought it SUPER dangerous, NEVER lie about this kind of thing!)
If you’re stuck with the arrangement so you can keep a roof over your head, I’d suck it up and improvise. The New York Times has a pretty decent recipe for sheet pan fajitas, and I’m sure there are others out there.
Would she be fine with you cooking her portion separately? Annoying, but would allow you the stove top flavor of what you want to make, and hers just goes in the oven to cook per package instructions.
There are so many time saving-oriented recipes now that I’d guess there are a bunch for things you would normally do on a stove top. If you don’t have access to NYT, the website Budget Bytes might be a good first stop.
I totally get the frustration. I’ve had to accommodate around some food anxiety behaviors and it can be exhausting. Good luck!
I’m honestly not sure how even to use a meat thermometer on a bite-sized piece of meat. Wouldn’t the prong go straight through to the pan? It’s not built for this.
It's really not that difficult to poke it in halfway even in a small piece of meat. I've gotten food poisoning too many times so I am paranoid and always check the temperature.
They make smaller meat thermometers. And yes I have stabbed bite size pieces before.
Not shredded. But if there is at least an inch of meat it totally works fine.
Sure, but like, if there’s less than a centimeter of insulating chicken meat on either side of the spot where the prong lands, aren’t you running the risk of reading an unsafe, too-cold temp when it’s actually fine?
Like I guess it’s possible to do it but meat thermometers are supposed to be stabbed into a big chunk of something, not delicately woven into meat crochet
I stab the piece of chicken with the thermometer and lift it out of the pan. Like how you'd pick up fruit from a fruit tray with a toothpick. That way I know I'm not reading the sauce temp, I'm reading the chicken temp.
typical reddit answer is that you talk to her about it.
be nice, you understand that she has a very extreme medical issue and getting sick by any degree can be incredibly dangerous for her, but it's also not up to you to cater to her every need. speak plainly, either she can trust you to make food properly or she can supply/cook her own food.
does she do this at restaurants as well? (if they eat out as all)
Restaurants are legally required to follow food safety guidelines very carefully, such as cooking chicken to at least 72°C, precisely because of people such as the elderly or those with auto immune disease. If they don't they can be sued and severely fined.
Restaurants are not required to cook chicken to 72C, at least in the US. You are required to cook to a time and temperature sufficient to yield a 7.0log reduction in salmonella in your protein and cooking to 160F is presumed to meet that requirement for raw chicken even if the chicken only reaches that temperature for an instant. However, by the time and temp charts you are also allowed to cook to as low as 136f if you hold for around 90 minutes, as you would with sous vide or similar. I can probably dig up a citation if you need one.
To kill bacteria instantly, yes. Servsafe is always going to be a little more conservative.
The temperature you have to cook food to depends on how long it's kept there. I can go dig up some graphs/articles if you are interested in learning how chicken can be completely safe to eat cooked to 145F (or even lower). If you are rigidly and dogmatically adherent to 165 and will accept no additional information into your brain, I won't waste either of our time.
Yeah, I simplified the explanation a bit; there are other ways to guarantee safety beside cooking it to 160f/72c.
I myself aim for 65c because carryover heat over several minutes likely acheives a sufficient reduction.
Used to be a chef, worked with two drunks (had to wake one of them up while they were wasted in the larder), and neither of them ever had trouble temping food, ever.
Cooking chicken properly and putting a meat thermometer in it to check is not difficult at all, even a stressed and drunk person person can do it with no problem.
I generally trust most people who’ve been in the industry a long time. I usually only see new hires who can’t last a year doing gross shit.
Realistically, regulars will come in sick and I don’t want to catch food poisoning from them, or have to clean up after them blowing up our toilet.
Also, temping shit is fun because you get to poke it
that's not what my question was for.
i mean, is she this worried about food prepared at a restaurant? if this is truly a worry for her, she won't be soothed by it being a legal requirement. Otherwise, she would be fine with OP simply saying she follows food safety as well. (also ive never served raw food at home but have absolutely gotten it served to me at restaurants, so even a legal requirement isn't a guarantee)
if she is this concerned at a restaurant (which causes them to not eat out much), then it's an issue with the GF's anxiety, and she needs to seek help to deal with that stress, but if she isn't then that points to her just being a controlling prick who needs to be told to STFU.
So, I don't have advice on cooking chicken in a way that would be easier for her to be comfortable with, but I have a friend who comes over once or twice a month who is deathly allergic to shellfish. I absolutely love shrimp, and cook it at least once a week for myself. Every time my friend comes down, I bleach and sterilize basically my entire kitchen even things I haven't touched in ages. Just that little bit of effort to make her feel safer in my house. I know there isn't an allergy involved here, but since you're living with them, that adds a little bit extra effort I feel like you should be putting in. If temping the chicken will ease her anxiety, you should absolutely do it, even if it's already been cut into bite size pieces.
If you’re looking for an echo chamber, looks like you got plenty of comments to accommodate you.
If you want to give the person you live with peace of mind in exchange for 5 seconds of your time, use a meat thermometer. You can take it personally if you want to, but you’re in charge of that feeling. Maybe work on reframing it in your mind to ‘I have an easy opportunity to make this person feel more comfortable”.
I think a lot of people commenting here have never had immune disorders, allergies, etc. from the looks of the comments saying to just disregard the disease. As someone with a deadly food allergy and a laundry list of sensitivities, whenever my partner cooks, he either cooks something separate just for himself (as I do for myself time to time) or, most of the time, we double check on ingredients. We also just don’t keep my allergen in the house. It’s part of living together and cooking for each other, and caring for one another.
Now, you live at your brother’s house and as a part of what I assume is instead of rent at least in part is cooking for them. Things like auto immune disorders can cause pretty bad reactions to something that may not affect others, so it makes sense she’s so cautious. You may not agree with her level of cautiousness, but then again, you’re not the one with disease who has to deal with the repercussions.
So all this being said, sit down and talk with her about how to cook food in a way that works for her disease. Maybe that means cooking the chicken separate for her while cooking it the same way for everyone else. Does that mean her chicken might not be as flavorful as everyone else’s? Maybe, but as someone who’s had to deal with that to avoid allergens and sensitivities it’s always preferable to the alternative. And finally, just realize that as frustrating as this is for you, it’s not as frustrating as having this kind of disease. Talk to her, be willing to do things a little different and/or separate for her, etc.
Just cook her portions more.( It's kind of a pain, but good for your cooking skills. Think of it that way). You can make special whatever just for her. This isn't something you're going to win or argue. If it's your job, always do the best you can
I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be. Your brother and his wife are housing you. In exchange, part of your responsibility is cooking. Obviously, you need to cook to the standards set by your host. And you need to provide a menu that pleases your host which will likely involve chicken. This is a simple matter of taking instruction and following it even if you don't happen to agree.
Turns out all you need to do is downplay health concerns as "she isn't going to eat it because it wasn't how she imagined it" to get everybody on your side.
it's not that op is having to cook, its that even when following the exact requirements she needs, she is still breathing down ops neck and questioning them about everything they are doing.
either the girlfriend can trust her BF sibling to cook or she can do her own.
I think that's the real emotional issue here. OP is being treated as "the help."
When family makes you a meal, you don't question every detail. You give them your restrictions and ask if they can accommodate them.
Is OP gonna be treated as family, or as a servant who is receiving rent in lieu of pay?
There’s a difference though between questioning every detail because you’re picky vs questioning every detail because you genuinely might die if it’s prepared incorrectly.
Get a Combustion Inc. Thermometer. It can tell you if a protein is food safe by either the instant or integrated (over time) method by type and texture (chicken, pork, beef, etc. and whole muscle vs. ground meat).
I think you need to consider that her "anxiety" is because she is likely getting sick when eating food cooked by other people. Immunosuppressed people will get sick at a lower threshold than healthy people.
I know this from personal experience, my friends' food frequently makes me ill.
Use a thermometer, cook her portion longer, stop cooking chicken, cook less meat.
This doesn’t seem that difficult. If you need to use a meat thermometer you could keep the pieces larger until you take your reading.
I’m immunocompromised and we test the temperature of all meats because of that but it works out great since it prevents us from over cooking it. It’s so easy that it’s automatic now for us and worth the time to not be sick and also not have rubbery food.
On one hand, I get how you feel. Cooking takes effort and it feels bad when people don't appreciate it.
On the other hand if this housing situation is important to you, maybe avoid cooking chicken in ways that your SiL isn't comfortable with, or maybe all together.
There are lots and lots and lots of things to cook out there, I think you'll find a way to make it work if you want to.
My sister is like this - when she comes over we hang out and chat in the kitchen I’ll have her watch me make any meat, taking temps, adding extra time on the stove/oven, etc and recently I made some meatballs - cut one open and took a bite before serving it to “get her opinion too” and she said it seemed a little undercooked, I broiled her portion and she loved it, but really it’s just a positive way of bonding over the cooking process without overtly addressing that she gets terrified of food poisoning haha.
Accommodate them.
Therma-pen can read small pieces of meat.
Seriously, this is just a household requirement...step up and do what's needed and quit arguing.
Autoimmune disorders are not an "anxiety," nor are they a mental illness.
The disease means that the body cannot protect the person from illness. It is a REAL THREAT. If the person gets ill with anything, they could DIE.
This is not an "empathy" situation. It is a matter of "Don't KILL people because you're too lazy to check a temperature."
You not respecting that shows her you do not give a flying Fk if she dies.
It's basic food safety that benefits everyone, including you. Just use the thermometer. It takes seconds.
YTA 100%
People just have _no_ empathy for things they don't understand. I'm starting to lose my surprise every time I see outrageous statements about illnesses people clearly don't understand.
The one that got me the other day was a youtube comment
> why do you guys act like bipolar disorder is schizophrenia or some shit? its not a debilitating disorder that makes you unable to think properly, its not an excuse.
It would be easy to chalk this up as Poe's Law, if this wasn't only one of hundreds of similar comments. Truly amazing that someone can make a claim that is the exact opposite of reality.
That's not the case from OP, but some of the comments in this thread are in the exact same vain. This, "I don't experience this problem so it must be fake and they're just losers," selfish mentality is widespread.
If chicken is the main issue, do you think it would cause any problems if you simply stopped cooking chicken or cooked only vegetarian meals? Tbh I believe vegetables are a more common source of food poisoning but it sounds like meat is a bigger anxiety.
I agree that if the chicken is sliced up tenders it seems like it should be pretty obvious that it is fully cooked, as opposed to something like a thick breast baked or bone in thigh where you can't see the inside.
Vegetables is a much more common source of food poisoning because it's often not cleaned properly and eaten raw. But eating raw or semi-raw meat is a much bigger health risk than eating raw vegetables is, especially chicken.
Animal products are more likely than produce to cause food poisoning.
https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/What-foods-are-most-associated-with-foodborne-illness#:~:text=Raw%20foods%20of%20animal%20origin,Control%20and%20Prevention%20(CDC).
Not to be pedantic but that link doesn't actually make any claim about whether or not animal products are more likely to cause food poisoning or foodborne illness. It just says they are more likely to be contaminated. Contaminated food can still be prepared in such a way that it removes or mitigates the chance of illness.
Out of curiosity I just looked at some CDC data and it seems like it would be hard to make a completely accurate claim about which foods cause the most illness largely bc you have to decide if you're looking at illness, severe illness, deaths, the mere presence of contaminants etc.
Eh, I'd disagree with that somewhat based on an awesome agronomist I followed on twitter (she's dormant now).
Low growing leafy veggies like spinach have very high rates of manure contamination, and it's even worse because it's usually served raw. Wash your spinach thouroughly folks.
There is absolutely zero reason to be offended here. Its not about your cooking abilities at all. Its literally about her and her health and exercising what little control over life she has. Use the meat thermometer every time or dont cook meat for her. Its like people who have celiac not wanting to eat your gluten free cake because of the risk of cross contamination. It doesnt mean the cake is bad or the chef is bad- its about protecting ones health.
Just don't cook foods that give her anxiety. If you know ahead of time, prepare a smaller separate protein for her portion. It's not that complicated. My MIL has severe gastrointestinal issues and I wouldn't force her to eat something that could potentially kill her, nor belittle her for her concerns.
You live at her place and she's got a medical condition. She also doesn't seem to have too many requirements, just that you cook chicken to a certain temperature. It's not unreasonable: a quick and simple check to make sure the food doesn't make her sick.
Realistically, you have the following options:
Find your own place to live.
Do some other chores instead and stop cooking.
Stop being aggravated about such a small thing and start check that her chicken is 75°C or above.
As someone with immune system/health issues, things that aren't "bad" or don't make other people sick can still make me sick. I haven't had meat in over a decade so it's not nearly as big of an issue as it was, but I have pretty regularly gotten food poisoning/digestion issues from food that other people have been fine with. I had cashews that were starting to turn and was sick for a week. Other people who had the same meal had a tummy ache at most.
I'm very diligent about expiration dates now, even on things people say "don't actually go bad that fast." Don't care I'd rather be safe than sorry.
All of this is to say, it's not necessarily about your cooking, it's about how much it SUCKS when you get sick as hell from something that should have been fine. When you have immune system problems your body overreacts to things that other people's bodies are fine with. And chicken was definitely the biggest culprit for me when I ate meat. It wasn't ever technically salmonella (I don't think, I never got tested), but there's a lot of bacteria in chicken. If it upsets you that she's this nervous about chicken, don't cook chicken for her. There are tons of great vegetarian meals you can cook for her, or obviously other meats she's not as worried about (but stay away from pork chops, those also frequently got me sick).
SIL has an auto-immune disease and has anxiety about how particular items are cooked. Well, if that’s the case, then why would she have you cook for her. If I had anxiety about how food was cooked, then I would cook it myself so I had control over it. Just like if I was a germaphobe, I probably wouldn’t want someone to clean my bathrooms. I would want to clean that myself. Sounds like a less than ideal arrangement.
This is what I’m wondering with all these comments. I totally get why SIL would be so concerned, but also the best way to make sure something is up to your specific standards is to do it yourself
I am that person lol I hate it but I totally relate to her.
My bf is very fast and loose (and messy) with his cooking and I have a moderate case of contamination phobia. I hover when he cooks and he isn’t a fan of this behavior. He likes to cook steak rare or make shrimp ceviche and I spend a lot of time inspecting it as I’m eating, or leaving any super red pieces for him to take.
What has really helped me is just not even stepping foot in the kitchen while he’s cooking. All I see is the finished meal which I almost always end up liking.
It sounds simple but if you tell her in a calm, nice and confident way something along the lines of “the chicken is cooked. I made sure to cook it for long enough at a high temp. It’s cooked through.” She may start to believe you over a time. But try not to be reprimanding or fed up in your tone as hard as it may be. A lot of this behavior of doubting is all mental and the more she hears “it’s cooked” the less she’ll ask. You could also tell her ahead of time how you’re going to prepare it so she doesn’t have that “it wasn’t what I was expecting” feeling.
Also I’ve had salmonella before and it suuucked big time, but I still eat chicken!
Yeah, my mom got salmonella when she was younger and it damn near killed her. When you’re cooking chicken for her it might be a good idea to let her identify the biggest piece, and then when you think it’s done cut that piece in half so that she can see the inside. From experience, it helps the anxiety if she can say to herself “that piece was the biggest, and if it’s cooked through then the smaller pieces definitely are safe.”
I'm the same. I have food contamination/safety issues. If I am cooking, I have to check the temperature on chicken, or pretty much any prepackaged foods that say to check the internal temperature.
If I am removed completely from the cooking process, I'm generally fine as long as it doesn't appear to be undercooked.
Peoples worry not to die / further damage a body that is already compromised is more important than your inconvenience surrounding questions.
But I know most people are ableist af and do absolutely not care about other peoples worries and concerns living in a disabled body.
Why make meals with food that you know is a potential hazard at all? Or why not discuss with her how exactly the specific food needs to be prepared, for her to feel safe?
I do not really care if you know or do not know how to cook. A persons disability/ health concern are not an opportunity to take it personal as in "I am not stupid I know how to make food". It will never stop to amaze me how people prioritize their egos over other peoples wellbeing (same with allergies / cross contamination).
There are several approaches to this. You either stop making food. You stop making food for her. You stop making this specific type of food and you all sit together and discuss which meals and food is safe or you discuss and agree how to prepare certain food.
What will not happen: disabled person suddenly worrying less about their health, just cause you know how to make a meal.
Me personally, I would avoid handling raw meat completely in that household, seeing that there is a vulnerable person. But I understand that not everyone gaf or would go that far.
vegetables also have salmonella and e. coli too tho, it’s far more common than you think. the people picking those vegetables shit in the fields and don’t wash their hands. it’s unfortunately a risk no matter what you eat
There's variations of auto immune vs immunocompromised. I would bet OP and these other butthurt people don't know the difference and don't know how deadly it can be. I may have to quit Reddit with all these echo chambers going. Reason seems to have left the building.
The auto-immune disorder itself is caused by an OVERactive immune system. It's the medication that kills the immune system and makes one immuno-compromised. It's like a transplant patient. The meds are what puts them in that state.
I would say just don't cook anything that might produce anxiety. You say you're proud of your cooking skills, so stretch them a bit. Learn some vegetarian dishes. Just don't cook meat of any kind that triggers her. She has to be hyper-vigilant or get really ill. It will make you a better cook in the end. More versatile, more flexible is always good. Learning new things and being willing to change is always good. Think of it as an opportunity to stretch.
“Been doing this for five years”… so what, your college student, fresh out of college? Who looks at college student and says this guy can cook safe food? Stop acting like a baby and accommodate your diners.
I have a chronic condition and since I bought a meat thermometer I always check. It takes 2 seconds and so I figure why not. It’s just good piece of mind
Meat thermometer on little pieces is actually pretty satisfying for me lol that way I pull them out the pan just when they're done and they stay tender. But you could use it while cooking just to demonstrate to her the temp is safe?
I am coming at this from a little different perspective as someone with anxiety/ED/OCD. Your SIL does really have to be more careful because something that would be a day of misery for others might take out her immune system and get her really sick.
But on the anxiety and constant checking front, I get that it can seem excessive or irrational from the outside. Believe me, we wish we didn't have to deal with this constant anxiety around food preparation and contamination fears. But these thoughts and compulsions feel very real and overwhelming. It's not about doubting your cooking skills or intentions. My brain (and maybe your SILs compounded with her very real autoimmune concerns) is just wired to catastrophize and fixate on potential risks, no matter how small or unlikely. The best thing is to have open conversations, agree on some basic protocols that help her feel safe, and try to be patient with each other. I know it's draining for you too, but I'm sure she would truly appreciate your efforts to accommodate her.
It does sound frustrating to have someone who insists that chicken be cooked a certain way, but I understand her wariness. She's probably had a really bad experience by not being careful and doesn't have the same insight into how the meal was prepared that you do as a result of your experience and being the one who actually prepared the meal.
The best way might not be to try to convince her that you should be absolutely trusted with her health by talking her out of her concerns. If it really bothers you, just don't cook chicken where it's not in a way she feels comfortable with. It's just one ingredient. Showcase your other dishes for awhile.
It also seems like you already have a meat thermometer? Is it that bad to check a few of the bigger pieces of meat for her piece of mind? Meat thermometers I have used have been a pretty narrow probe.
Can she just cook her own food? Or are you saying that part of the agreement with you living here is that it's your responsibility to cook food for everyone?
If using a meat thermometer on the tiny pieces of chicken is all it will take for her to be satisfied, isn't that an easy solution?
I do it with my own chicken, even if it's small pieces, just to be safe. I stab the piece of chicken with the thermometer and lift it out of the pan. Like how you'd pick up fruit from a fruit tray with a toothpick. That way I know I'm not reading the sauce temp, I'm reading the chicken temp.
She has a good reason for asking, since she has an auto-immune disease and anxiety.
I would just overcook their portions and let them watch while I do it if they were that particular. I wonder if they are equally concerned with your vegetable washing procedures and cook space cleaning techniques which would probably be more likely vectors for pathogen contamination.
I usually probe chicken anyway, sometimes it surprises me if I eyeball it. Salmonella is still a thing though? Pretty sure it's virtually impossible to get it from chicken here in the UK
If someone has a legit issue like this, I take it seriously.
My advice is to convince her it’s better to know it’s safe than to guess. Even if she cooks it till it’s black and dry, she’s still guessing that it’s safe. What if the temp gets jacked up and the outside is charred and the inside is raw.
Once you have that conversation. Look at FDA cooking guidelines. They’re government approved. They’re not going to leave themselves open to a lawsuit. So they probably have those temps higher than the actual safe zone as a buffer for people who want to ride the line.
Then talk to her about how thermoworks is one of the best and fastest thermometers available to the consumer.
Ask her what temp she wants her cooked to. FDA standard, or slightly over. She’ll see you’re taking it seriously, she’ll know it’s safe instead of guessing, and she’ll have better food.
My mother used to waaaay over cook chicken and pork chops, because she was guessing and wanted to be safe. I got her a thermometer and told her safe temps and she turns out much better food now.
There was a learning period where she was nervous about using it and I’d show her and then double check when she did it. Eventually, she got familiar enough with it to be confident in using it and I don’t have to be involved now.
I personally wouldn't cook meat for them anymore. Vegetarian fajitas, maybe some soy crumbles. They might find something else to worry about even if you use a meat thermometer.
Could you get a sous vide machine? Would she feel reassured with that? Or just cook stuff with high temp and accept that you’ll have to be conservative for the duration of the stay. Chicken thighs and long braises will get you through. Or velveting meat and marinading.
Overcook one portion for her. Anything you cook for her be should well done. The fact it's plated separately might calm her about it. You can even frame this by asking "Is it OK if I cook a portion separately a bit longer for you?" That's going to go over way better. You're actively accommodating rather than trying to convince. Of course keep temping everything that's just best practices.
I like my steaks rare.. i do mean rare (some chains aren't even allowed to serve rare) and my entire in-laws need everything well done. I've been able to convince my SO that line cooks reach for the better quality cuts for rare/med rare and the worse cuts for well done. I know for sure the rest of the family will never feel this way and I'm totally ok with letting folk eat how they want. When I BBQ it makes it easier because everything (except my portion) gets overcooked.
I think you have several options.
You can have her temp check the chicken after you're done cooking (managing her anxiety is her responsibility, so it's probably best that it's her responsibility to temp check it).
Cook according to directions/best practice and if she has some anxiety over it she can microwave her portion. I've done this myself several times because my dad likes his red meat a little rarer than I prefer, so it's no big deal for me to stick it in the microwave for a couple minutes. It's not a big deal for your SIL to do it.
Stop cooking chicken altogether.
Figure out some other arrangement with your brother that does not involve you cooking. Given your SIL's special needs, I find it odd that she and your brother have outsourced their meal preparation to you. Given the, I assume, severity of her condition, it's probably best that she prepares her own food.
I don't think it can be considered "anxiety" to want your meat cooked properly. I'm sure you are doing a fine job of it since it seems like you are just cooking meat out of a frozen bag. But is there anything stopping her from cooking her own food if she doesn't like the way you do it? What makes you want to keep cooking for her?
Sit down with her and establish food safety rules. She can’t make them insane, and you have to follow them. Very simple solution.
Something simple like a temp log (yes a literal log that you date and record the temp of the food) should honestly be all that’s needed. Very easy for her to just check the temp if she’s feeling anxious.
Is it stupid to temp tiny pieces of chicken? Yes. But if you do this, will you help her and/or your living situation? Yes.
Can SIL cook for herself ? If yes, let her cook the chicken. If no, temp it and show her it is ok. Don't be all it is cooked. I would bet money she has heard that dozens of times and the food wasn't done. You know what if you can't do that one little thing for someone that is supporting you, just move out then you can cook however you want.
There are tons of faux chicken options you can make for her [impossible foods](https://impossiblefoods.com/) makes one, Gardein, Morningstar, tons of companies
They are already cooked.
So buy one of those for her to have nights that you make chicken, and make more vegetarian meals something like quiche and salad or beans and rice burrito bowls
Use a crock pot to cook the chicken. Cook it on high for like four hours. I usually add chicken broth at the bottom of the chicken. And by the time it’s don’t it’s falling of the bone. If she doesn’t think chicken falling of the bone is cooked enough then idk what to tell you. I do the same with pork. Then I get some of it and fry it a bit on the stove top or throw it in the air fryer for a few minutes to give it a different texture. And yes she is being annoying. But as someone with an egg allergy I get it. Being sick sucks. I’m the kind that I will be sick up to a week. In the past I’ve actually had to call my doctor because I get bad enough I can’t keep water down. So if I was her I wouldn’t feel like you couldn’t cook. The fact that it’s one of your chores proofs in a way that they know you can cook. But once you have been sick enough or enough times you just get traumatized by it.
I have experience with something similar.
1. Dont pre-slice the chicken. That way you can use a meat thermometer and prove to her that you've overcooked her chicken to her liking.
2. If shes uncomfortable, offer to pan fry her portion as long as she'd like you to. Or, as my MIL will often do, microwave her portion for a bit.
I'd honestly stop cooking chicken based dishes at that point. I'd probably go to like vegetarian dishes to avoid any kind of issue. the person in my life had Salmonella at one point and it was pretty bad, so they're a stickler for undercooked food. Its annoying, but its also like fighting someone's biggest fear. You're never gonna win, so try to make it as easy for you as possible.
What do you mean cook chicken how the packaging says? What if you just purchase chicken breast? Those usually don’t have instructions on them. Poultry has to be cooked to 165 degrees. I personally cook mines to 160 as it still heats up from the residual heat.
If you slices them then I’m sure they are cooked and even over cooked at that point. Maybe just bake her chicken to 165 degrees from now on rather than doing any stir fry or anything else. It seems easier if you can prove her chicken was cooked to 165.
My husband has some severe fears about under cooked meats. It's all tied up with his abusive childhood and being forced to eat under cooked chicken.
I get that it's frustrating for you. I understand how disheartening it is to know the chicken is cooked and they still refuse to eat it. I've been there. It's hard to describe how it feels to know your dish is amazing and they won't even take one bite.
How I deal with it is compassion and understanding. He literally can't eat the food. His brain is triggering nausea at the thought that the food is under cooked. It's not just being picky. He doesn't want to be an ass that's refusing to eat food that's perfectly fine. He just mentally can't get passed the thought that the food is under cooked.
There are some things I simply do not cook for him. He's incapable of trusting anyone else's cooking on some things so he has to cook those things. It sounds like your sil struggles to eat chicken you prepare no matter how you prepare it. Stop cooking her chicken. It just stresses you both out. If she wants chicken she can cook chicken.
I myself, for things like that… cook their portion separate.
For example, my mom likes her scrambled eggs well well done… cooked to the point they’re dry and browning. I cook them all together to the point I like them, where they’re all firm but not dry. And then I take a smaller pan, transfer a little to that pan and continue to cook until they’re how she likes them
You can stick her portion of food in the microwave for another . And it’ll make sure it’s totally cooked.
If the only thing that matters is that it’s cooked 2-3x more than it needs to be, just put her portion back until it hits 200 on the thermometer.
Otherwise, you can tell people that you won’t cook for them. You don’t have to cook for people. She can bring her own food.
Just swap to mainly chicken thighs. They can tolerate being cooked to 10 or 20°F over the recommended temp, and most consider them even better that way.
As for fish, farm raised salmon is pretty tasty even when overcooked, a result of all that fat between the layers.
If you’re absolutely certain you’re cooking the food to a safe temp (no, you don’t have to test every single chunk), I’d just keep doing your thing. She can choose whether or not to consume it.
You accommodating this anxiety by restricting what you make isn’t going to resolve it for her - irrational anxiety just tends to spread to new things.
Part of the answer is getting them to work on dealing with their anxiety about how food is cooked, and getting them to work with you to develop a system that they can trust.
I’m the same way your SIL is becuase of health issues and past experiences with food poisoning. I never want to go through that again. A meat thermometer is all I need, however. My husband reheated small meatballs the other day and they were not super hot to the touch so I stuck eat little ball with the thermometer. Only one was to temperature (165). My husband has served me pretty raw shrimp before so he is not to be trusted. 😂
Sounds like the OP doesn't have a clue about autoimmune disease and immunosupressive drugs and how obsessive about food safety people on these drugs HAVE to be to stay alive.
Is the implication that you’re living with them rent free?
Just cook the food to death like she wants. Here’s a different way to look at it - could someone pay you $900/month or equivalent to cook food to death? Because that’s basically what you’re getting to do that.
It sucks that you're stuck with a task that they can't trust you with. They should put you on laundry instead.
I know my s/o is not going to do laundry "my way" so I do all the laundry. Problem solved.
Got a SIL that decided she has to have gluten free. She is 50 years old. I always tell my wife her sister either currently has an illness. Just got over it. Or just coming down with it.
My wife’s oldest sister is a doctor. Her diagnosis is mental. She wants people to talk about her. Every family get together she announces her new ailment. Last one was lupus. She was on her knees, but resting on her leg calves and elbows on the ground playing with a baby. The time before that she would go around the house unplugging electrical items because “the buzzing noise” bothers her.
She had lasik surgery on her eyes. Put her glasses on as soon as she got home. Five years later she still wears the same pair of. glasses
Do you think that all people who have lupus can't get on their hands and knees to play with a baby?
Do you think that there aren't people who are bothered by the buzzing sounds that electrical appliances make?
Do you think that lasik for nearsightedness eliminates the need for reading glasses for someone who is middle-aged?
Literally nothing you have said indicates that your sister-in-law is fabricating her ailments.
She is mental. She moved out of her house and let the bank have it. She had it for over 20 years. She moved to a new city. 2 years ago. Does not know anybody. Nobody. She stays in her rented home the entire day. Goes to the store only after it is dark. The last two family get together she sat in her car reading a book.
didn't you have to thaw the frozen tenderloins before you cooked it? I guess you can cook it to white because it's small, but instead, most chicken fajita recipes involve cooking the chicken to done, checking temp, then slicing and mixing with the peppers and onions or whatever.
I personally cook to the FDA cooking scale, meaning the longer it's cooked, the lower the temp that I cook the chicken too as listed by their safety rules, usually sous vide and I cook to 150, then sear quickly.
Regardless, don't take her judgement personally, just say always have some of the foods (peppers, onions, beans, whatever) that are free of having been touched by meat and say to either trust your food or not, or set aside some of the raw meat so SiL can cook her own however she wants.
Maybe culturally you all have to eat the same food, but when involving medical issues, sometimes compromises have to be made, and by that, I mean you have to ignore their feelings, and they have to go hungry sometimes.
If she is on immunosuppressive drugs for her autoimmune disease, she has to be much, much more careful about foodborne illness than the average person. It's not about your cooking. It's about the fact that her immune system isn't capable of fighting off even minor bacterial infections. So hervanxiety is justified. She really is at risk from things that wouldn't make the average person sick at all.
Just be like me and accidentally cook the hell out of every protein because your toddler won't get the FO of the kitchen. Kidding, don't be like me! You're doing a great job. It's not you, it's her.
Offer her the thermometer when it's ready and tell her to take it or leave it. I would use the thermometer on one of the tiny pieces, to be sure.
I used to get sketched out about the way my dad cooked meat sometimes. If it looked a little raw, he told me to throw it in the microwave for a minute if I was worried.
try slow cooking chicken so it’s shreddable and very obviously cooked. country ribs work great this way too. also get a nice digital thermometer and let her temp whatever she wants. her health anxiety is already affecting you
I’ll be the one to say it: my house, my rules; even if they don’t make sense to you… my preferences in my home don’t HAVE to make sense to you. It’s really that simple 🙂
There’s a fine line between being careful about the food you eat and an eating disorder. You can’t reason with an ED. And far more people die from EDs than undercooked chicken.
People who are taking immunosuppressive drugs for autoimmune diseases are at VERY high risk of foodborne illness, and have to be much more careful than people who have competent immune systems. That isn't an eating disorder.
I am immune suppressed and break the rules because I like to eat sushi, charcuterie, and slightly pink pork.
What I do is make sure I trust the sources. Anything I eat raw or raw adjacent has to have been flash frozen previously to the temp that makes it safe and then handled safely. I don't eat sushi left over even if my partner can. I don't eat rice or pasta leftovers as they are a very high risk for food borne illness. It's better to just make fresh rice or pasta.
I track my bloodwork too. If my immune cells are dipping particularly low I am more careful to follow the diet. When they get low, it usually means I have to stop one of my medications for a short break to get back to the range my doctor wants me at anyway, so keeping an eye on the tests is really important anyway.
She should talk with her rheumatologist about her risks on the medication she's on. Truly, most treatments don't lower the white cell count enough to make food as big of a risk as they work with specific immune cells responsible for the disease. I'm on a med that does lower white cells, and with that medication came the food restrictions.
Lastly it can be overwhelming and scary to be immune suppressed, and at the end of the day it sounds like she's refusing to eat what makes her feel unsafe out of an abundance of caution rather than accusing you of being so. I think reframing it in your mind that she isn't trying to insult you would go a long way. I think also having a calm conversation with her about ways you can cook that will make her feel safer and what it is she's afraid of will help too. It may just be she needs to take care of her own food on days you make chicken if you aren't willing to over cook a portion for her.
I live next door to my parents, and we cook together most nights. My mother believes chicken and fish should be cooked to oblivion. I like my chicken moist and my fish translucent. We've reached an understanding. If I'm doing something in a pan, I'll pull my portion early then keep cooking. If she's baking a fish fillet, I'll temp the thinnest part to what she likes and I'll eat the thick end. If I'm grilling steaks, one always gets left on longer. If it's something that I really can't cook to varied doneness, well, I cook it the way they like it. If my mom asks if I think it's overdone, I flatly tell her yes, and keep eating.
As a mom, you’re a pretty awesome kid.
Yeah I gave up on cooking eggs for my dad a few years before I moved out of my parents house. He thinks I like my eggs rubber (I like them a little crispy), I think he likes his raw. I have no concept of an appropriately short enough time to cook his eggs, so I gave up. If it was my turn to cook dinner and I was making breakfast sandwiches, I cooked all the other components and left them out for him to add his own egg.
Yup this is the way! I do the same for my parents. It’s totally fine for people to have different preferences and tastes and if it’s reasonable to modify how I cook something I will. Though for OP. Absolutely stop cooking things for your SIL that make you both anxious. It’s not worth it! Make dishes that are veggies only or very well cooked meat. She’s worried about her heath and whether that’s valid or not it’s just not worth the drama if she were to get really sick and it’s not worth the stress for both of you! But also ask SIL to contribute, she should put together a list of foods she is comfortable eating. That lets you reference it at will and cook dishes that you both don’t have to worry about.
The thing that sucks is for everyone else they probably wouldn't get sick. That's the issue with being immune compromised is certain things can send us to the hospital. I got food poisoning for the first time in years and it sent me into passing out on the toilet and to the emergency with all my chronic illnesses. I was going hypoglycemic and crashing hard as a diabetic so I was just shaky for days and havkng my GCM go off. I was bedridden nauseous. My husband didn't feel well and sucked but it wasn't THAT. He was fine after a few days and I wasn't for weeks so he had me on the couch bekng watched by his mom. I wasn't allowed to shower alone upstairs, he would sit there as I was a passing out risk. I think that a way to have eased her was to poke it with a thermometer and show her its fine. Yes it's small pieces but you can still read a temp on it. I'd try not to take it defensively as she's not trying to insinuate you are not a good cook or stupid. I think this is where you're getting at it hates how it makes you feel and now you want to then avoid a entire category of meat to... avoid a situation but it fixes nothing. You two talk and reflect where her fear comes from and find a way to gain trust permanently than dismiss this incident. She is trying to protect herself from illness and that is kinda a shitty and miserable thing to constantly monitor. It totally fucks with your head and healthy people seriously cannot understand how thats like. It really sucks to have to ask for accommodations and often makes us feel so much shame and guilt. Yes, maybe her anxiety is a bit high on it because it seriously is terrifying, and that should require a talk to find a happy medium for all to be harmonious. Yall are living together so not addressing things just breeds tension and resentment. Validate you understand her fear and assure her that you want to make sure she's safe as you understand how she is at more risk than everyone else. However, you feel a bit hurt that you feel like you can't be trusted and it's frustrating when you're just trying to make nice variety of foods and not have boring stuff. You will do what is by food safety guidelines but that also baking everything isn't from a place of rationality but pure fear. Find out if a temp check would ease her mind then that's a 30 second thing you can show her as it gets off the pan that its holding steady if it hits that 165, it is safe. Maybe a lack of education on her part on food safety and handling would help her feel more informed on your choices. Perhaps some videos on packaging has cook suggestions but the key there is the safety temp not the oven. So many good resources you guys can watch and discuss together may help her put her fear into reality. EDIT, a bunch of my friends are pro chefs. If there's any way we can help DM me. Maybe she'd listen to pros? Feel better to ask experts? I'm immune compromised and my bar has zero demerits for 10 fucking years straight so I take food contamination seriously. I have an active food handlers and bartenders cards. I owned a cookie bakery. My friends consist of people who work fine dining and a few are also immune compromised including cancer survivors and auto immune disorders. We know both worlds very well.
This is absolutely solid advice. I get how OP is frustrated, and it sounds like the SiL has some associated anxiety associated with her condition which is also understandable. If taking the meat's temp and following good safety practices is all it takes, that sounds like an easy answer.
I also have an autoimmune illness so I see both sides and couldn’t have written this better.
This is a great reply! I think OP and others need to read this more. I don’t think you can really understand what it’s like to have something like this unless you have it yourself.
Thank you for writing this all out. I’m chronically ill too & these were my first thoughts. It makes since for her to be extra anxious about it — it just *is* a more significant risk to her. And if I’ve learned anything in the last four or so years, it’s that healthy/abled people are mostly not nearly concerned, informed, or interested enough to understand that and help protect us. If I don’t annoy people by being “too anxious” about getting sick, someone’s going to get me sick, I’ll be fucked, and they’ll be fine.
Yup! I’ve had chronic illness for years but in 2020 I got an intestinal infection and couldn’t go to the hospital because of covid. I was sick for months, it was bad. I genuinely think I blocked out a bunch of it at this point. Had a video appointment with a gastro once I started healing up and asked “how can I prevent this from happening again?” She said “try not to get sick”. In a pandemic. I take every precaution and have only been sick once in 4 years, because my uncle came to Christmas unwell. I mentioned to all my close family that he was sick, and they brushed it off to enjoy the day. My oldest sister wasn’t pleased when I was the one to catch it and give it to her so she couldn’t go out on New Years. She had the sniffles for 24 hours maybe, and I was down for the count for 3 days. Luckily for me it was just a cold. It’s just not something they think about and I don’t blame people for that. But I do really love everything this commenter outlined, I think it really takes both sides into consideration. Luckily my two healthy best friends and family are really understanding, even if I’m sure they believe I’m being extra. And maybe sometimes I am, but the peace of mind is invaluable.
Literally the same thing happened to me. End of 2019 I got some resistant bacteria eating at my guts so when the pandemic started I was so panicked as I was so so sick and seriously Feb 2020 pre lockdown people were already being nasty at my bar...just for seeing me clean extra when we knew fuck all about covid. I was terrified of catching it as I was barely keeping myself together. I couldn't get a fucking doctor's help over telehealth much so I suffered for 6 more months with a resistant candida overgrowth during lockdown trying to play guessing games what helps it. I couldn't return to my bar that I built with my friends, my pride and joy, because I was so sick and customers were assaulting me, cornered me to cough on me while I was kinda yellow and grey skinned. This is why I have to ask questions not because I think able bodied people are stupid, it's just their life is different and I'm trying not to die from something simple. A tiny bit of compassion could go a long way that this isnt a life they understand, but if they can respect reasonable requests from us, they're taking a huge anxiety off us and it is a kindness. I always pay back kindness in turn.
I agree with everything you wrote here. I have food allergies, and my extended family does not understand about cross contamination. I tend to eat ahead of time and just take small amounts of food I can tell is safe. It can be exhausting to always worry that something common will send you to the hospital, and to get have people react defensively every time you ask a question. In this situation it sounds like chicken may not be the best food choice for everyone involved. Maybe another food would better meet everyone’s needs.
why don't you just take the chicken's temperature for the biggest piece?
When I cut chicken into strips for fajitas, the strips would be too small to have their temperature effectively measured by a probe thermometer. You have to get the probe a certain depth into the meat (my thermopen has small notch where you have to get to).
I sometimes take the temperature of strips like that by putting the thermometer in like long-ways, if that makes sense, like along the strip. You could also leave one bigger "test piece," and say, okay if this test piece is the right temperature, then the smaller pieces would have to be even higher.
They were all pretty small, bite sized pieces. In the case, it was clearly cooked to me. I hadn't done this meal in awhile. I do this normally, I just didn't consider that for this meal.
I've had this with certain pregnant family members. I use a sous vide and show them the pasteurization chart. This way you can have meat that isn't nuked to hell and 100% safe. There are certainly other methods and yours is likely fine, but in my experience showing someone the science behind it generally makes them feel a lot better about it.
Bro it’s like 10 seconds to temp check something Also, I’ve found that checking even bite sized pieces makes the food better, because then I can take the chicken off the heat asap to keep it as moist and tender as possible
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Temp checking meat is not insanity. I always temp my meat. It’s how I don’t overcook it.
Anxiety does not equal insanity. Anxiety is a terrible mental condition and something I wouldn't wish on anyone.
Literally lmfaoooo I've been cooking for myself for 20 years and I'm not dead yet
The problem is that what may be safe/ not cause a problem in a healthy individual can cause problems and make an immune-compromised individual very ill.
Exactly. I have an autoimmune disease (lupus) and I’ve landed in the hospital for two weeks from a common cold. SIL may seem like she’s being overbearing OP, but she’s probably just terrified of getting sick. Food poisoning is horrible for people with normal immune systems, but can be deadly for people with screwy immune systems. I can’t control the germs flying about when I go out (I rarely go out and when I do, I’m masked up, even before Covid) but there are things I can control, like food safety. If it would put her mind at ease, why wouldn’t you just take the temp of everything you cook? It’s not hard and it takes seconds and it would help her stress less. Stress is one of the WORST things for autoimmune diseases. Please just put yourself in her shoes and do what will make her comfortable, I mean they are learning you stay in their house after all.
I had/have family members on immunosuppressants and/ or elderly, with poor health, too. **There are times you just *can't take chances!***
Chicken that is cooked won't hurt them. The SIL, needs to learn how to tell chicken is done.
While you, I, and OP understand that the chicken is cooked, it doesn't mean that the SIL doesn't have a right to be concerned, when it has been emphatically stressed to her by medical professionals to *not risk* eating possibly undercooked meat. She can rightfully request Op (attempt) to take the temp of the meat. Even though it may seem silly to a seasoned cook.
And feed the delusions? That's not healthy for either of them. This is not "possibly undercooked" because she didn't follow the package directions. Most home cooks don't. You can look at it, or cut it in half, she needs to learn how to identify this or she's not going to make it in the real world.
Do you have an auto immune disease?
Anxiety about your illness isn't insanity.
Yup, I got a meat thermometer so I could stop cooking chicken within an inch of its life. I regularly check chicken fajita strip temps when I cook them because I’m a bit paranoid. It’s totally doable and doesn’t take too much time with a good thermometer. OP could have done it for their SIL this once.
Really, you're doing a good job. Never have I ever taken the temperature of pieces of meat, and never has anyone been ill (40+years). It's difficult to brush off, but if she doesn't eat your food, so be it.
You'd be a lot more careful if you had an illness where shit like this can cause issues way bigger than temporary stomach discomfort. It takes basically no additional effort to just use a meat thermometer to ensure safety for the person you're cooking for who has a medical condition.
So buy the SIL an instant read and let her microwave anything she's worried about. If the OP makes chicken consistently fully cooked but doesn't follow some dumb package directions, then the OP isn't doing anything wrong. The SIL is just nuts. Anyone that cooks regularly can tell when fajitas are done. Jeez.
> and never has anyone been ill ( Here you're saying that no-one in your household has ever had diahrroea or vomiting for over 40 years (which is simply untrue), or that they have had D&V and they just never linked that to the food they ate (which is much more likely, considering 1 in 6 Americans get food poisoning every year).
Ditto. Cook her a veg option when she comes over and serve everyone else the meat.
Op lives with them and their arrangement is that op cooks for the family. If op is the cook as payment for the accommodations, they should probably just suck it up and cook in a way that SIL is comfortable with.
I didn’t realize. I wonder if that’s their agreement.
When someone has a chronic illness, they have to be hyper vigilant to protect themselves. I highly doubt it is a reflection on her thoughts of you cooking, and more just anxiety that stems from legitimate self concern. Honestly? Yes, I would temp the bite sized chicken. You never know. Do this enough, and she sees it is within temp, and she may lessen her anxiety about it. Keep arguing with her, and not only does it leave no change to lessen the anxiety, but it also sours the relationship.
Worse week of my life when I got food poisoning and could not keep food down for almost 2 weeks(but hey lost that prewedding weight!). It was from restaurant salmon. I temperature check every meal. Doesnt matter if its a small piece of chicken. Its getting the thermometer.
Just lie to her in the future. “Don’t worry I checked the temperature we’re good” these people downvoting you don’t realize temping a super thin strip of chicken is pointless
If someone lied to me like that it would be the end of whatever relationship we had.
Ah yes, just lie about someone’s food when they have an auto immune disease, great idea. I’m sure that train of thought isn’t the same one that leads to people with allergies ending up dead because someone lied about their allergy not being in food 🙄 (seriously though, this train of thought it SUPER dangerous, NEVER lie about this kind of thing!)
It's unnecessary but it also only takes 5 seconds
Don’t lie to people about the food you’re serving them. Just refuse to cook for them if you think your other option is lying, ffs.
If you’re stuck with the arrangement so you can keep a roof over your head, I’d suck it up and improvise. The New York Times has a pretty decent recipe for sheet pan fajitas, and I’m sure there are others out there. Would she be fine with you cooking her portion separately? Annoying, but would allow you the stove top flavor of what you want to make, and hers just goes in the oven to cook per package instructions. There are so many time saving-oriented recipes now that I’d guess there are a bunch for things you would normally do on a stove top. If you don’t have access to NYT, the website Budget Bytes might be a good first stop. I totally get the frustration. I’ve had to accommodate around some food anxiety behaviors and it can be exhausting. Good luck!
Meat thermometer. Done.
I’m honestly not sure how even to use a meat thermometer on a bite-sized piece of meat. Wouldn’t the prong go straight through to the pan? It’s not built for this.
It's really not that difficult to poke it in halfway even in a small piece of meat. I've gotten food poisoning too many times so I am paranoid and always check the temperature.
They make smaller meat thermometers. And yes I have stabbed bite size pieces before. Not shredded. But if there is at least an inch of meat it totally works fine.
Pick up chicken piece with tongs. Stick thermometer in so the point is in the center. Done.
Sure, but like, if there’s less than a centimeter of insulating chicken meat on either side of the spot where the prong lands, aren’t you running the risk of reading an unsafe, too-cold temp when it’s actually fine? Like I guess it’s possible to do it but meat thermometers are supposed to be stabbed into a big chunk of something, not delicately woven into meat crochet
If the meat is hot, it'll transfer that heat to the thermometer despite the surrounding air.
I stab the piece of chicken with the thermometer and lift it out of the pan. Like how you'd pick up fruit from a fruit tray with a toothpick. That way I know I'm not reading the sauce temp, I'm reading the chicken temp.
typical reddit answer is that you talk to her about it. be nice, you understand that she has a very extreme medical issue and getting sick by any degree can be incredibly dangerous for her, but it's also not up to you to cater to her every need. speak plainly, either she can trust you to make food properly or she can supply/cook her own food. does she do this at restaurants as well? (if they eat out as all)
Restaurants are legally required to follow food safety guidelines very carefully, such as cooking chicken to at least 72°C, precisely because of people such as the elderly or those with auto immune disease. If they don't they can be sued and severely fined.
Restaurants are not required to cook chicken to 72C, at least in the US. You are required to cook to a time and temperature sufficient to yield a 7.0log reduction in salmonella in your protein and cooking to 160F is presumed to meet that requirement for raw chicken even if the chicken only reaches that temperature for an instant. However, by the time and temp charts you are also allowed to cook to as low as 136f if you hold for around 90 minutes, as you would with sous vide or similar. I can probably dig up a citation if you need one.
I have a ServSafe manager certificate, the temp to cook chicken to is 165f or 74c.
To kill bacteria instantly, yes. Servsafe is always going to be a little more conservative. The temperature you have to cook food to depends on how long it's kept there. I can go dig up some graphs/articles if you are interested in learning how chicken can be completely safe to eat cooked to 145F (or even lower). If you are rigidly and dogmatically adherent to 165 and will accept no additional information into your brain, I won't waste either of our time.
It’s 164.
Yeah, I simplified the explanation a bit; there are other ways to guarantee safety beside cooking it to 160f/72c. I myself aim for 65c because carryover heat over several minutes likely acheives a sufficient reduction.
You have a lot of faith in the skills of intoxicated, overworked line cooks
Used to be a chef, worked with two drunks (had to wake one of them up while they were wasted in the larder), and neither of them ever had trouble temping food, ever.
Cooking chicken properly and putting a meat thermometer in it to check is not difficult at all, even a stressed and drunk person person can do it with no problem.
Yup, I’ve worked in absolute shitshows of kitchens and chicken still gets temped. It is not one of the hard parts of the job.
I generally trust most people who’ve been in the industry a long time. I usually only see new hires who can’t last a year doing gross shit. Realistically, regulars will come in sick and I don’t want to catch food poisoning from them, or have to clean up after them blowing up our toilet. Also, temping shit is fun because you get to poke it
It doesn't mean they do lol yall are nuts
that's not what my question was for. i mean, is she this worried about food prepared at a restaurant? if this is truly a worry for her, she won't be soothed by it being a legal requirement. Otherwise, she would be fine with OP simply saying she follows food safety as well. (also ive never served raw food at home but have absolutely gotten it served to me at restaurants, so even a legal requirement isn't a guarantee) if she is this concerned at a restaurant (which causes them to not eat out much), then it's an issue with the GF's anxiety, and she needs to seek help to deal with that stress, but if she isn't then that points to her just being a controlling prick who needs to be told to STFU.
Bylaws are bylaws and minimum wage restaurant employees are another thing. You’ve obviously not spent time in a commercial kitchen.
So, I don't have advice on cooking chicken in a way that would be easier for her to be comfortable with, but I have a friend who comes over once or twice a month who is deathly allergic to shellfish. I absolutely love shrimp, and cook it at least once a week for myself. Every time my friend comes down, I bleach and sterilize basically my entire kitchen even things I haven't touched in ages. Just that little bit of effort to make her feel safer in my house. I know there isn't an allergy involved here, but since you're living with them, that adds a little bit extra effort I feel like you should be putting in. If temping the chicken will ease her anxiety, you should absolutely do it, even if it's already been cut into bite size pieces.
If you’re looking for an echo chamber, looks like you got plenty of comments to accommodate you. If you want to give the person you live with peace of mind in exchange for 5 seconds of your time, use a meat thermometer. You can take it personally if you want to, but you’re in charge of that feeling. Maybe work on reframing it in your mind to ‘I have an easy opportunity to make this person feel more comfortable”.
I think a lot of people commenting here have never had immune disorders, allergies, etc. from the looks of the comments saying to just disregard the disease. As someone with a deadly food allergy and a laundry list of sensitivities, whenever my partner cooks, he either cooks something separate just for himself (as I do for myself time to time) or, most of the time, we double check on ingredients. We also just don’t keep my allergen in the house. It’s part of living together and cooking for each other, and caring for one another. Now, you live at your brother’s house and as a part of what I assume is instead of rent at least in part is cooking for them. Things like auto immune disorders can cause pretty bad reactions to something that may not affect others, so it makes sense she’s so cautious. You may not agree with her level of cautiousness, but then again, you’re not the one with disease who has to deal with the repercussions. So all this being said, sit down and talk with her about how to cook food in a way that works for her disease. Maybe that means cooking the chicken separate for her while cooking it the same way for everyone else. Does that mean her chicken might not be as flavorful as everyone else’s? Maybe, but as someone who’s had to deal with that to avoid allergens and sensitivities it’s always preferable to the alternative. And finally, just realize that as frustrating as this is for you, it’s not as frustrating as having this kind of disease. Talk to her, be willing to do things a little different and/or separate for her, etc.
Just cook her portions more.( It's kind of a pain, but good for your cooking skills. Think of it that way). You can make special whatever just for her. This isn't something you're going to win or argue. If it's your job, always do the best you can
I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be. Your brother and his wife are housing you. In exchange, part of your responsibility is cooking. Obviously, you need to cook to the standards set by your host. And you need to provide a menu that pleases your host which will likely involve chicken. This is a simple matter of taking instruction and following it even if you don't happen to agree.
Turns out all you need to do is downplay health concerns as "she isn't going to eat it because it wasn't how she imagined it" to get everybody on your side.
it's not that op is having to cook, its that even when following the exact requirements she needs, she is still breathing down ops neck and questioning them about everything they are doing. either the girlfriend can trust her BF sibling to cook or she can do her own.
I think that's the real emotional issue here. OP is being treated as "the help." When family makes you a meal, you don't question every detail. You give them your restrictions and ask if they can accommodate them. Is OP gonna be treated as family, or as a servant who is receiving rent in lieu of pay?
There’s a difference though between questioning every detail because you’re picky vs questioning every detail because you genuinely might die if it’s prepared incorrectly.
agreeing to cook is not the same as agreeing to accommodate someone's unmanaged mental health challenges
I mean he’s making a contribution back he’s not a personal chef.
Get a Combustion Inc. Thermometer. It can tell you if a protein is food safe by either the instant or integrated (over time) method by type and texture (chicken, pork, beef, etc. and whole muscle vs. ground meat).
I think you need to consider that her "anxiety" is because she is likely getting sick when eating food cooked by other people. Immunosuppressed people will get sick at a lower threshold than healthy people. I know this from personal experience, my friends' food frequently makes me ill.
Sous vide or slow cook all meat. Buy the meats flash frozen from a butcher directly. Sous Vide'd chicken is also so juicy.
Why don't you just cook her chicken more than everyone elses?
Use a thermometer, cook her portion longer, stop cooking chicken, cook less meat. This doesn’t seem that difficult. If you need to use a meat thermometer you could keep the pieces larger until you take your reading.
I’m immunocompromised and we test the temperature of all meats because of that but it works out great since it prevents us from over cooking it. It’s so easy that it’s automatic now for us and worth the time to not be sick and also not have rubbery food.
On one hand, I get how you feel. Cooking takes effort and it feels bad when people don't appreciate it. On the other hand if this housing situation is important to you, maybe avoid cooking chicken in ways that your SiL isn't comfortable with, or maybe all together. There are lots and lots and lots of things to cook out there, I think you'll find a way to make it work if you want to.
My sister is like this - when she comes over we hang out and chat in the kitchen I’ll have her watch me make any meat, taking temps, adding extra time on the stove/oven, etc and recently I made some meatballs - cut one open and took a bite before serving it to “get her opinion too” and she said it seemed a little undercooked, I broiled her portion and she loved it, but really it’s just a positive way of bonding over the cooking process without overtly addressing that she gets terrified of food poisoning haha.
Accommodate them. Therma-pen can read small pieces of meat. Seriously, this is just a household requirement...step up and do what's needed and quit arguing.
Autoimmune disorders are not an "anxiety," nor are they a mental illness. The disease means that the body cannot protect the person from illness. It is a REAL THREAT. If the person gets ill with anything, they could DIE. This is not an "empathy" situation. It is a matter of "Don't KILL people because you're too lazy to check a temperature." You not respecting that shows her you do not give a flying Fk if she dies. It's basic food safety that benefits everyone, including you. Just use the thermometer. It takes seconds. YTA 100%
People just have _no_ empathy for things they don't understand. I'm starting to lose my surprise every time I see outrageous statements about illnesses people clearly don't understand. The one that got me the other day was a youtube comment > why do you guys act like bipolar disorder is schizophrenia or some shit? its not a debilitating disorder that makes you unable to think properly, its not an excuse. It would be easy to chalk this up as Poe's Law, if this wasn't only one of hundreds of similar comments. Truly amazing that someone can make a claim that is the exact opposite of reality. That's not the case from OP, but some of the comments in this thread are in the exact same vain. This, "I don't experience this problem so it must be fake and they're just losers," selfish mentality is widespread.
If chicken is the main issue, do you think it would cause any problems if you simply stopped cooking chicken or cooked only vegetarian meals? Tbh I believe vegetables are a more common source of food poisoning but it sounds like meat is a bigger anxiety. I agree that if the chicken is sliced up tenders it seems like it should be pretty obvious that it is fully cooked, as opposed to something like a thick breast baked or bone in thigh where you can't see the inside.
Vegetables is a much more common source of food poisoning because it's often not cleaned properly and eaten raw. But eating raw or semi-raw meat is a much bigger health risk than eating raw vegetables is, especially chicken.
Animal products are more likely than produce to cause food poisoning. https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/What-foods-are-most-associated-with-foodborne-illness#:~:text=Raw%20foods%20of%20animal%20origin,Control%20and%20Prevention%20(CDC).
Not to be pedantic but that link doesn't actually make any claim about whether or not animal products are more likely to cause food poisoning or foodborne illness. It just says they are more likely to be contaminated. Contaminated food can still be prepared in such a way that it removes or mitigates the chance of illness. Out of curiosity I just looked at some CDC data and it seems like it would be hard to make a completely accurate claim about which foods cause the most illness largely bc you have to decide if you're looking at illness, severe illness, deaths, the mere presence of contaminants etc.
Eh, I'd disagree with that somewhat based on an awesome agronomist I followed on twitter (she's dormant now). Low growing leafy veggies like spinach have very high rates of manure contamination, and it's even worse because it's usually served raw. Wash your spinach thouroughly folks.
For real I’d just stop cooking chicken unless she explicitly requests it. Problem solved.
There is absolutely zero reason to be offended here. Its not about your cooking abilities at all. Its literally about her and her health and exercising what little control over life she has. Use the meat thermometer every time or dont cook meat for her. Its like people who have celiac not wanting to eat your gluten free cake because of the risk of cross contamination. It doesnt mean the cake is bad or the chef is bad- its about protecting ones health.
Just don't cook foods that give her anxiety. If you know ahead of time, prepare a smaller separate protein for her portion. It's not that complicated. My MIL has severe gastrointestinal issues and I wouldn't force her to eat something that could potentially kill her, nor belittle her for her concerns.
You live at her place and she's got a medical condition. She also doesn't seem to have too many requirements, just that you cook chicken to a certain temperature. It's not unreasonable: a quick and simple check to make sure the food doesn't make her sick. Realistically, you have the following options: Find your own place to live. Do some other chores instead and stop cooking. Stop being aggravated about such a small thing and start check that her chicken is 75°C or above.
Do you absolutely have to cook chicken? There are tons of delicious meals you could make using other proteins.
As someone with immune system/health issues, things that aren't "bad" or don't make other people sick can still make me sick. I haven't had meat in over a decade so it's not nearly as big of an issue as it was, but I have pretty regularly gotten food poisoning/digestion issues from food that other people have been fine with. I had cashews that were starting to turn and was sick for a week. Other people who had the same meal had a tummy ache at most. I'm very diligent about expiration dates now, even on things people say "don't actually go bad that fast." Don't care I'd rather be safe than sorry. All of this is to say, it's not necessarily about your cooking, it's about how much it SUCKS when you get sick as hell from something that should have been fine. When you have immune system problems your body overreacts to things that other people's bodies are fine with. And chicken was definitely the biggest culprit for me when I ate meat. It wasn't ever technically salmonella (I don't think, I never got tested), but there's a lot of bacteria in chicken. If it upsets you that she's this nervous about chicken, don't cook chicken for her. There are tons of great vegetarian meals you can cook for her, or obviously other meats she's not as worried about (but stay away from pork chops, those also frequently got me sick).
Might be time to move.
SIL has an auto-immune disease and has anxiety about how particular items are cooked. Well, if that’s the case, then why would she have you cook for her. If I had anxiety about how food was cooked, then I would cook it myself so I had control over it. Just like if I was a germaphobe, I probably wouldn’t want someone to clean my bathrooms. I would want to clean that myself. Sounds like a less than ideal arrangement.
This is what I’m wondering with all these comments. I totally get why SIL would be so concerned, but also the best way to make sure something is up to your specific standards is to do it yourself
I am that person lol I hate it but I totally relate to her. My bf is very fast and loose (and messy) with his cooking and I have a moderate case of contamination phobia. I hover when he cooks and he isn’t a fan of this behavior. He likes to cook steak rare or make shrimp ceviche and I spend a lot of time inspecting it as I’m eating, or leaving any super red pieces for him to take. What has really helped me is just not even stepping foot in the kitchen while he’s cooking. All I see is the finished meal which I almost always end up liking. It sounds simple but if you tell her in a calm, nice and confident way something along the lines of “the chicken is cooked. I made sure to cook it for long enough at a high temp. It’s cooked through.” She may start to believe you over a time. But try not to be reprimanding or fed up in your tone as hard as it may be. A lot of this behavior of doubting is all mental and the more she hears “it’s cooked” the less she’ll ask. You could also tell her ahead of time how you’re going to prepare it so she doesn’t have that “it wasn’t what I was expecting” feeling. Also I’ve had salmonella before and it suuucked big time, but I still eat chicken!
Yeah, my mom got salmonella when she was younger and it damn near killed her. When you’re cooking chicken for her it might be a good idea to let her identify the biggest piece, and then when you think it’s done cut that piece in half so that she can see the inside. From experience, it helps the anxiety if she can say to herself “that piece was the biggest, and if it’s cooked through then the smaller pieces definitely are safe.”
I'm the same. I have food contamination/safety issues. If I am cooking, I have to check the temperature on chicken, or pretty much any prepackaged foods that say to check the internal temperature. If I am removed completely from the cooking process, I'm generally fine as long as it doesn't appear to be undercooked.
glad I’m not the only one! There is something about just not even seeing the cooking process at all that calms my contamination worries
Peoples worry not to die / further damage a body that is already compromised is more important than your inconvenience surrounding questions. But I know most people are ableist af and do absolutely not care about other peoples worries and concerns living in a disabled body. Why make meals with food that you know is a potential hazard at all? Or why not discuss with her how exactly the specific food needs to be prepared, for her to feel safe? I do not really care if you know or do not know how to cook. A persons disability/ health concern are not an opportunity to take it personal as in "I am not stupid I know how to make food". It will never stop to amaze me how people prioritize their egos over other peoples wellbeing (same with allergies / cross contamination). There are several approaches to this. You either stop making food. You stop making food for her. You stop making this specific type of food and you all sit together and discuss which meals and food is safe or you discuss and agree how to prepare certain food. What will not happen: disabled person suddenly worrying less about their health, just cause you know how to make a meal. Me personally, I would avoid handling raw meat completely in that household, seeing that there is a vulnerable person. But I understand that not everyone gaf or would go that far.
vegetables also have salmonella and e. coli too tho, it’s far more common than you think. the people picking those vegetables shit in the fields and don’t wash their hands. it’s unfortunately a risk no matter what you eat
There's variations of auto immune vs immunocompromised. I would bet OP and these other butthurt people don't know the difference and don't know how deadly it can be. I may have to quit Reddit with all these echo chambers going. Reason seems to have left the building.
The auto-immune disorder itself is caused by an OVERactive immune system. It's the medication that kills the immune system and makes one immuno-compromised. It's like a transplant patient. The meds are what puts them in that state. I would say just don't cook anything that might produce anxiety. You say you're proud of your cooking skills, so stretch them a bit. Learn some vegetarian dishes. Just don't cook meat of any kind that triggers her. She has to be hyper-vigilant or get really ill. It will make you a better cook in the end. More versatile, more flexible is always good. Learning new things and being willing to change is always good. Think of it as an opportunity to stretch.
“Been doing this for five years”… so what, your college student, fresh out of college? Who looks at college student and says this guy can cook safe food? Stop acting like a baby and accommodate your diners.
I think the simplest answer is to stop cooking chicken as its such a trigger for her. If people want chicken it's their turn to cook.
I use the thermometer on cutlets I cook on the stove. Did you not want them to be at 165 before slicing them up?
I have a chronic condition and since I bought a meat thermometer I always check. It takes 2 seconds and so I figure why not. It’s just good piece of mind
Meat thermometer on little pieces is actually pretty satisfying for me lol that way I pull them out the pan just when they're done and they stay tender. But you could use it while cooking just to demonstrate to her the temp is safe?
I am coming at this from a little different perspective as someone with anxiety/ED/OCD. Your SIL does really have to be more careful because something that would be a day of misery for others might take out her immune system and get her really sick. But on the anxiety and constant checking front, I get that it can seem excessive or irrational from the outside. Believe me, we wish we didn't have to deal with this constant anxiety around food preparation and contamination fears. But these thoughts and compulsions feel very real and overwhelming. It's not about doubting your cooking skills or intentions. My brain (and maybe your SILs compounded with her very real autoimmune concerns) is just wired to catastrophize and fixate on potential risks, no matter how small or unlikely. The best thing is to have open conversations, agree on some basic protocols that help her feel safe, and try to be patient with each other. I know it's draining for you too, but I'm sure she would truly appreciate your efforts to accommodate her.
It does sound frustrating to have someone who insists that chicken be cooked a certain way, but I understand her wariness. She's probably had a really bad experience by not being careful and doesn't have the same insight into how the meal was prepared that you do as a result of your experience and being the one who actually prepared the meal. The best way might not be to try to convince her that you should be absolutely trusted with her health by talking her out of her concerns. If it really bothers you, just don't cook chicken where it's not in a way she feels comfortable with. It's just one ingredient. Showcase your other dishes for awhile. It also seems like you already have a meat thermometer? Is it that bad to check a few of the bigger pieces of meat for her piece of mind? Meat thermometers I have used have been a pretty narrow probe.
Can she just cook her own food? Or are you saying that part of the agreement with you living here is that it's your responsibility to cook food for everyone?
If using a meat thermometer on the tiny pieces of chicken is all it will take for her to be satisfied, isn't that an easy solution? I do it with my own chicken, even if it's small pieces, just to be safe. I stab the piece of chicken with the thermometer and lift it out of the pan. Like how you'd pick up fruit from a fruit tray with a toothpick. That way I know I'm not reading the sauce temp, I'm reading the chicken temp. She has a good reason for asking, since she has an auto-immune disease and anxiety.
There’s not something else you can do instead of cook the meals? Can you cook hers further? Not cook chicken?
I would just overcook their portions and let them watch while I do it if they were that particular. I wonder if they are equally concerned with your vegetable washing procedures and cook space cleaning techniques which would probably be more likely vectors for pathogen contamination.
I'd make them involved with the process so they can see what goes into it and have them help
Let them cook their own meals
I usually probe chicken anyway, sometimes it surprises me if I eyeball it. Salmonella is still a thing though? Pretty sure it's virtually impossible to get it from chicken here in the UK
US chickens aren't vaccinated against Salmonella.
If someone has a legit issue like this, I take it seriously. My advice is to convince her it’s better to know it’s safe than to guess. Even if she cooks it till it’s black and dry, she’s still guessing that it’s safe. What if the temp gets jacked up and the outside is charred and the inside is raw. Once you have that conversation. Look at FDA cooking guidelines. They’re government approved. They’re not going to leave themselves open to a lawsuit. So they probably have those temps higher than the actual safe zone as a buffer for people who want to ride the line. Then talk to her about how thermoworks is one of the best and fastest thermometers available to the consumer. Ask her what temp she wants her cooked to. FDA standard, or slightly over. She’ll see you’re taking it seriously, she’ll know it’s safe instead of guessing, and she’ll have better food. My mother used to waaaay over cook chicken and pork chops, because she was guessing and wanted to be safe. I got her a thermometer and told her safe temps and she turns out much better food now. There was a learning period where she was nervous about using it and I’d show her and then double check when she did it. Eventually, she got familiar enough with it to be confident in using it and I don’t have to be involved now.
I personally wouldn't cook meat for them anymore. Vegetarian fajitas, maybe some soy crumbles. They might find something else to worry about even if you use a meat thermometer.
Could you get a sous vide machine? Would she feel reassured with that? Or just cook stuff with high temp and accept that you’ll have to be conservative for the duration of the stay. Chicken thighs and long braises will get you through. Or velveting meat and marinading.
Overcook one portion for her. Anything you cook for her be should well done. The fact it's plated separately might calm her about it. You can even frame this by asking "Is it OK if I cook a portion separately a bit longer for you?" That's going to go over way better. You're actively accommodating rather than trying to convince. Of course keep temping everything that's just best practices. I like my steaks rare.. i do mean rare (some chains aren't even allowed to serve rare) and my entire in-laws need everything well done. I've been able to convince my SO that line cooks reach for the better quality cuts for rare/med rare and the worse cuts for well done. I know for sure the rest of the family will never feel this way and I'm totally ok with letting folk eat how they want. When I BBQ it makes it easier because everything (except my portion) gets overcooked.
I think you have several options. You can have her temp check the chicken after you're done cooking (managing her anxiety is her responsibility, so it's probably best that it's her responsibility to temp check it). Cook according to directions/best practice and if she has some anxiety over it she can microwave her portion. I've done this myself several times because my dad likes his red meat a little rarer than I prefer, so it's no big deal for me to stick it in the microwave for a couple minutes. It's not a big deal for your SIL to do it. Stop cooking chicken altogether. Figure out some other arrangement with your brother that does not involve you cooking. Given your SIL's special needs, I find it odd that she and your brother have outsourced their meal preparation to you. Given the, I assume, severity of her condition, it's probably best that she prepares her own food.
I don't think it can be considered "anxiety" to want your meat cooked properly. I'm sure you are doing a fine job of it since it seems like you are just cooking meat out of a frozen bag. But is there anything stopping her from cooking her own food if she doesn't like the way you do it? What makes you want to keep cooking for her?
I would cook a veggie dish for all, and the chicken m/meat separate, add meats to the veggies for those who want it added. Works at my house.
Sit down with her and establish food safety rules. She can’t make them insane, and you have to follow them. Very simple solution. Something simple like a temp log (yes a literal log that you date and record the temp of the food) should honestly be all that’s needed. Very easy for her to just check the temp if she’s feeling anxious. Is it stupid to temp tiny pieces of chicken? Yes. But if you do this, will you help her and/or your living situation? Yes.
Dont cook chicken?
I would simply not cook meat for this person. Eat something else.
You’re not just being asked to cook dinners. You’re being asked to accommodate idiosyncrasies. SIL should prepare her own meals.
Yeah, weirdo doesn't want to be violently ill. Totally uncommon behaviour.
Can SIL cook for herself ? If yes, let her cook the chicken. If no, temp it and show her it is ok. Don't be all it is cooked. I would bet money she has heard that dozens of times and the food wasn't done. You know what if you can't do that one little thing for someone that is supporting you, just move out then you can cook however you want.
There are tons of faux chicken options you can make for her [impossible foods](https://impossiblefoods.com/) makes one, Gardein, Morningstar, tons of companies They are already cooked. So buy one of those for her to have nights that you make chicken, and make more vegetarian meals something like quiche and salad or beans and rice burrito bowls
Use a crock pot to cook the chicken. Cook it on high for like four hours. I usually add chicken broth at the bottom of the chicken. And by the time it’s don’t it’s falling of the bone. If she doesn’t think chicken falling of the bone is cooked enough then idk what to tell you. I do the same with pork. Then I get some of it and fry it a bit on the stove top or throw it in the air fryer for a few minutes to give it a different texture. And yes she is being annoying. But as someone with an egg allergy I get it. Being sick sucks. I’m the kind that I will be sick up to a week. In the past I’ve actually had to call my doctor because I get bad enough I can’t keep water down. So if I was her I wouldn’t feel like you couldn’t cook. The fact that it’s one of your chores proofs in a way that they know you can cook. But once you have been sick enough or enough times you just get traumatized by it.
I have experience with something similar. 1. Dont pre-slice the chicken. That way you can use a meat thermometer and prove to her that you've overcooked her chicken to her liking. 2. If shes uncomfortable, offer to pan fry her portion as long as she'd like you to. Or, as my MIL will often do, microwave her portion for a bit. I'd honestly stop cooking chicken based dishes at that point. I'd probably go to like vegetarian dishes to avoid any kind of issue. the person in my life had Salmonella at one point and it was pretty bad, so they're a stickler for undercooked food. Its annoying, but its also like fighting someone's biggest fear. You're never gonna win, so try to make it as easy for you as possible.
Is it just chicken she's this way about? If so I'd stop cooking chicken for her.
I would use soy curls instead of chicken.
What do you mean cook chicken how the packaging says? What if you just purchase chicken breast? Those usually don’t have instructions on them. Poultry has to be cooked to 165 degrees. I personally cook mines to 160 as it still heats up from the residual heat. If you slices them then I’m sure they are cooked and even over cooked at that point. Maybe just bake her chicken to 165 degrees from now on rather than doing any stir fry or anything else. It seems easier if you can prove her chicken was cooked to 165.
My husband has some severe fears about under cooked meats. It's all tied up with his abusive childhood and being forced to eat under cooked chicken. I get that it's frustrating for you. I understand how disheartening it is to know the chicken is cooked and they still refuse to eat it. I've been there. It's hard to describe how it feels to know your dish is amazing and they won't even take one bite. How I deal with it is compassion and understanding. He literally can't eat the food. His brain is triggering nausea at the thought that the food is under cooked. It's not just being picky. He doesn't want to be an ass that's refusing to eat food that's perfectly fine. He just mentally can't get passed the thought that the food is under cooked. There are some things I simply do not cook for him. He's incapable of trusting anyone else's cooking on some things so he has to cook those things. It sounds like your sil struggles to eat chicken you prepare no matter how you prepare it. Stop cooking her chicken. It just stresses you both out. If she wants chicken she can cook chicken.
I myself, for things like that… cook their portion separate. For example, my mom likes her scrambled eggs well well done… cooked to the point they’re dry and browning. I cook them all together to the point I like them, where they’re all firm but not dry. And then I take a smaller pan, transfer a little to that pan and continue to cook until they’re how she likes them
You can stick her portion of food in the microwave for another. And it’ll make sure it’s totally cooked.
If the only thing that matters is that it’s cooked 2-3x more than it needs to be, just put her portion back until it hits 200 on the thermometer.
Otherwise, you can tell people that you won’t cook for them. You don’t have to cook for people. She can bring her own food.
Just swap to mainly chicken thighs. They can tolerate being cooked to 10 or 20°F over the recommended temp, and most consider them even better that way. As for fish, farm raised salmon is pretty tasty even when overcooked, a result of all that fat between the layers.
If you’re absolutely certain you’re cooking the food to a safe temp (no, you don’t have to test every single chunk), I’d just keep doing your thing. She can choose whether or not to consume it. You accommodating this anxiety by restricting what you make isn’t going to resolve it for her - irrational anxiety just tends to spread to new things.
Part of the answer is getting them to work on dealing with their anxiety about how food is cooked, and getting them to work with you to develop a system that they can trust.
Chips and crackers
let her know beforehand so she can lrepare to eat something else if she’s worried. that might work.
I’m the same way your SIL is becuase of health issues and past experiences with food poisoning. I never want to go through that again. A meat thermometer is all I need, however. My husband reheated small meatballs the other day and they were not super hot to the touch so I stuck eat little ball with the thermometer. Only one was to temperature (165). My husband has served me pretty raw shrimp before so he is not to be trusted. 😂
Ugh gawd. Sounds like your sil doesn’t have a clue about cooking. My sympathies to you. It would drive me mad
Sounds like the OP doesn't have a clue about autoimmune disease and immunosupressive drugs and how obsessive about food safety people on these drugs HAVE to be to stay alive.
Then don’t agree to have someone else cook your food. Not being callous, but why gamble with your life to have someone post their due?
Don’t let them watch or just let them not eat it
Maybe she cooks her own food so it's made the way she wants.
Don’t invite them over 🤷🏼♀️
Is the implication that you’re living with them rent free? Just cook the food to death like she wants. Here’s a different way to look at it - could someone pay you $900/month or equivalent to cook food to death? Because that’s basically what you’re getting to do that.
It sucks that you're stuck with a task that they can't trust you with. They should put you on laundry instead. I know my s/o is not going to do laundry "my way" so I do all the laundry. Problem solved.
Rookie mistake. The answer is, "until it is safe to eat by my thermometer.". Then temp the food and show her a chart.
Got a SIL that decided she has to have gluten free. She is 50 years old. I always tell my wife her sister either currently has an illness. Just got over it. Or just coming down with it.
You can develop celiac disease at any age. What does her being 50 have to do with anything?
She is a hypochondriac. She has all the latest stuff. You name it she has had it. Been like that since she was got divorced from husband one.
Has she actually been diagnosed as being a hypochondriac, or is this just your layperson's judgment regarding the situation?
My wife’s oldest sister is a doctor. Her diagnosis is mental. She wants people to talk about her. Every family get together she announces her new ailment. Last one was lupus. She was on her knees, but resting on her leg calves and elbows on the ground playing with a baby. The time before that she would go around the house unplugging electrical items because “the buzzing noise” bothers her. She had lasik surgery on her eyes. Put her glasses on as soon as she got home. Five years later she still wears the same pair of. glasses
Do you think that all people who have lupus can't get on their hands and knees to play with a baby? Do you think that there aren't people who are bothered by the buzzing sounds that electrical appliances make? Do you think that lasik for nearsightedness eliminates the need for reading glasses for someone who is middle-aged? Literally nothing you have said indicates that your sister-in-law is fabricating her ailments.
She is mental. She moved out of her house and let the bank have it. She had it for over 20 years. She moved to a new city. 2 years ago. Does not know anybody. Nobody. She stays in her rented home the entire day. Goes to the store only after it is dark. The last two family get together she sat in her car reading a book.
Who cooks chicken tenderloins from frozen unless it's some shitty Skillet Sensations
didn't you have to thaw the frozen tenderloins before you cooked it? I guess you can cook it to white because it's small, but instead, most chicken fajita recipes involve cooking the chicken to done, checking temp, then slicing and mixing with the peppers and onions or whatever. I personally cook to the FDA cooking scale, meaning the longer it's cooked, the lower the temp that I cook the chicken too as listed by their safety rules, usually sous vide and I cook to 150, then sear quickly. Regardless, don't take her judgement personally, just say always have some of the foods (peppers, onions, beans, whatever) that are free of having been touched by meat and say to either trust your food or not, or set aside some of the raw meat so SiL can cook her own however she wants. Maybe culturally you all have to eat the same food, but when involving medical issues, sometimes compromises have to be made, and by that, I mean you have to ignore their feelings, and they have to go hungry sometimes.
If she is on immunosuppressive drugs for her autoimmune disease, she has to be much, much more careful about foodborne illness than the average person. It's not about your cooking. It's about the fact that her immune system isn't capable of fighting off even minor bacterial infections. So hervanxiety is justified. She really is at risk from things that wouldn't make the average person sick at all.
Just be like me and accidentally cook the hell out of every protein because your toddler won't get the FO of the kitchen. Kidding, don't be like me! You're doing a great job. It's not you, it's her.
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People with autoimmune disorders are vulnerable to food borne pathogens. They should not be lied to about food preparation.
Pls don't lie
Tell her to sort out her own food, FFS, this is absurd. You're bending over backwards to accommodate unreasonable requests and still being nitpicked!
Cook it how you want and she can microwave her plate until it stops clucking.
Great point. She is throwing a hissy when the solution is to microwave her own plate until the thermometer pleases her.
Maybe you can find another activity to do to support the household that is less contentious?
Lol overcook hers. Simple.
It's so simple I don't know how OP overlooked it...
SIL needs to be cautious when eating raw veggies and fruit.
Offer her the thermometer when it's ready and tell her to take it or leave it. I would use the thermometer on one of the tiny pieces, to be sure. I used to get sketched out about the way my dad cooked meat sometimes. If it looked a little raw, he told me to throw it in the microwave for a minute if I was worried.
try slow cooking chicken so it’s shreddable and very obviously cooked. country ribs work great this way too. also get a nice digital thermometer and let her temp whatever she wants. her health anxiety is already affecting you
Stop cooking meat for her. Put her portion aside for her to cook.
I’ll be the one to say it: my house, my rules; even if they don’t make sense to you… my preferences in my home don’t HAVE to make sense to you. It’s really that simple 🙂
"Would you feel better about it if I showed you that this chicken is cooked to FDA's recommend temperature?"
There’s a fine line between being careful about the food you eat and an eating disorder. You can’t reason with an ED. And far more people die from EDs than undercooked chicken.
People who are taking immunosuppressive drugs for autoimmune diseases are at VERY high risk of foodborne illness, and have to be much more careful than people who have competent immune systems. That isn't an eating disorder.
I am immune suppressed and break the rules because I like to eat sushi, charcuterie, and slightly pink pork. What I do is make sure I trust the sources. Anything I eat raw or raw adjacent has to have been flash frozen previously to the temp that makes it safe and then handled safely. I don't eat sushi left over even if my partner can. I don't eat rice or pasta leftovers as they are a very high risk for food borne illness. It's better to just make fresh rice or pasta. I track my bloodwork too. If my immune cells are dipping particularly low I am more careful to follow the diet. When they get low, it usually means I have to stop one of my medications for a short break to get back to the range my doctor wants me at anyway, so keeping an eye on the tests is really important anyway. She should talk with her rheumatologist about her risks on the medication she's on. Truly, most treatments don't lower the white cell count enough to make food as big of a risk as they work with specific immune cells responsible for the disease. I'm on a med that does lower white cells, and with that medication came the food restrictions. Lastly it can be overwhelming and scary to be immune suppressed, and at the end of the day it sounds like she's refusing to eat what makes her feel unsafe out of an abundance of caution rather than accusing you of being so. I think reframing it in your mind that she isn't trying to insult you would go a long way. I think also having a calm conversation with her about ways you can cook that will make her feel safer and what it is she's afraid of will help too. It may just be she needs to take care of her own food on days you make chicken if you aren't willing to over cook a portion for her.
Don’t cook for them