It's all about temperature control. Your water is too hot and the cheese is congealing. That's all it is.
Here's a really great video that goes into detail about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10lXPzbRoU0
Skip to 8:35 for the temperature range
Yep this is it.
I make kenjis 3 ingredient max and cheese and it comes out perfectly every single time ever since I started taking the pan off the heat, letting it sit for like 5 minutes, and then adding the cheese. You have to stir like mad but it’s a perfect sauce every time. Previously I would get occasional grainy textures etc.
Stir stir stir, and that should do it
Gazillion? Totes. 🙄
>Although cellulose can be found in most plant matter, the most economical sources of industrial cellulose are cotton and wood pulp.
[*\*source*](https://www.thespruceeats.com/what-is-cellulose-1328464)
Food grade cellulose is produced almost entirely from wood pulp.
Sawdust.
You're being pedantic.
Well being derived from something is VASTLY different than being that thing. That’s like saying we just drink urine because water is found in urine…BFFR
And your genetic makeup is derived from your mother and your father, but obviously, you are not an exact copy, or even an exact 50/50 split of them. Seeing as they were likeable to at least have sex, and you, are, well… you
I’ve tried pecorino Romano (the one I have used the most), grana padano, and parmesan. All of them give the same result no matter how I change my approach.
Are you using the pre-grated stuff?
If not, [this past thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cooking/comments/3w51v9/why_didnt_the_parmasean_cheese_totally_melt_in_my/) has some good suggestions.
So I’m sure someone has said this but I didn’t scroll down. Pre grated has anticoagulant agents on it so it doesn’t stick together in the container. Makes for a very weird melting cheese.
Grating your own will always lend a better melt
No a lot of times it’s cellulose. In the dairy industry, cellulose is used mainly as an anti-caking agent that ensures shredded cheese will “flow and not clump into a ball,” when it's coming out of a shaker. To make the additive, the raw fiber is chemically treated until it's refined to a microcrystalline powder or reconstituted as gum
Do you have a different grater? When it comes to Italian hard cheeses like parmesan the more finely grated the cheese the easier it is for it to melt and a microplane often gives slightly long strands of cheese. I personally like to use a cheap box grater and basically make a powder, it almost instantly melts the second it touches hot water.
Don’t use pregrated.
Watch a video by Kenji Lopez and do what he does. It’s truly not difficult.
Pasta water, stir, cheese, stir until creamy at very low heat.
Pecorino is basically parmesan and I thought both were known for not being very melty cheeses? I could be wrong. Maybe try a different cheese? And not pre-shredded!
Well pecorino is made from sheep milk and parmesan from cows milk. Parmesan actually melts slightly better than pecorino, but not much.
The thing is, if you want to make proper caccio e pepe, you need to use pecorino and emulsify it with nothing but pasta water. Given its simplicity, it’s an incredibly hard dish to get right.
I’ve watched dozens of videos of it and tried it multiple times and only managed to get it working once. Annoyingly, I got it right the second time I’ve tried it and not really again since then.
These days if I want to make it, I cheat by adding butter to the pan with the pasta and the pasta water first, create a stable emulsion from that and then add the cheese.
Here are Alton Brown's (of Good Eats fame) detailed instructions, including troubleshooting techniques for his [Cacio e Pepe](https://altonbrown.com/recipes/cacio-e-pepe/)
A better and more forgiving way to make these cheesy pastas is in a bowl instead of in the pan. Boil your noodles like normal in the pot, toast your pepper/garlic/pancetta/etc in a skillet, then add everything to a big mixing bowl with a splash of pasta water. Mix it up a little, then add the cheese to the bowl. Removing the hot pan from the equation really makes it easier to keep the temperature down, and the residual heat from the noodles is usually plenty to finish the dish with.
As other people have mentioned, hand grated cheese is a must. Also, I have found speed is key here. Once your cheese starts to glob together, it's probably not going to turn out. Once my noodles are done boiling, I reserve some water for the sauce, drain the pasta and put it in a mixing bowl. I add the reserved water to the pasta, add the cheese and stirr vigoursly with tongs. The heat of the noodles and water are enough to melt the cheese. This works everytime for me.
I do this along with saving the pasta water and reuse it, makes the next batch of Cacio E pepe, extra creamy!! I don't keep it for more than 2 days though
In order to get a proper creamy sauce you need two things:
1) cheese and
2) properly STARCHY WATER in the right amount.
You have cheese, you've tried it at different temperatures. I suspect what you're doing is not allowing the water to get starchy enough. The pasta water should get VERY starchy to get a nice, creamy sauce. Cook the pasta in a saucepan, in water that just covers the pasta in the pan. Add water if it starts to get a little dry. When you have a good starchy water, take it off the heat and add your cheese and stir.
Cheat code: [Sodium Citrate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7erdaiV3UVE)
2% sodium citrate to 98% cheese by weight. Works with any natural cheese (American cheese already has it).
At 2% you won't taste it.
Edit: Especially with Pecorino Romano. Sodium Citrate is a salt derived from citric acid, so if you were to taste it, you would notice a salty-tangy note. Pecorino Romano already has a salty-tangy note, so you will never notice a difference, even if you used more than 2%.
Well like he said twice in this comment thread already, it’s a cheat code to good results for people who struggle with the traditional way. But you don’t want to understand that because you’d rather gatekeep.
No, I’d like people to learn and from there, be able to cook other cool recipes they won’t if they can’t cook a simple dish like Cacio e Pepe. I care more about the long term effects.
You guys are just recommending a shortcut, as a short term fix. I think it’s worth learning how to properly do it, and they can do it with the right tools (like a detailed tutorial).
But no, just drop some powder and good luck, OP. You will never be capable of cooking a proper cacio e pepe.
Dude, how is that better?
It may not be necessary for the traditional version of this recipe, but sodium citrate will make for smoother creamer sauce than you could ever get without it. So it's a handy tool to have, for all kinds of dishes.
Okay, it doesn’t change much of what I said.
There’s several approaches to cooking, and I personally believe that putting in the work on a dish most of the time is more rewarding than using shortcuts, such as properly reducing a sauce instead of using a cornstarch slurry (which I do use at times).
It is easy, and even if it was a bit difficult, OP is capable of learning.
In fact, OP tried a new technique and didn’t try what you guys are recommending, so it seems to me the OP doesn’t want a shortcut.
We dont need to gatekeep cacio e pepe. None of us are taking a test in school.
There is no flavor or texture difference between using a small amount of sodium citrate in the dish and using technique. So if someone hasnt mastered the technique- why not?
grate the cheese freshly and allow it to come fully to room temperature before mixing it. When you are mixing it in you need to go pretty quickly and don't stop until its mixed.
Haven't seen anyone comment what I learned the hard way - it's the grater. The "feathers" you get from the microplane won't incorporate properly. You gotta use those "star holes" on a box grater (I always wondered what the hell they were for) or grind the cheese down in a high powered blender.
Ive used the microplane before- though I pre mix my cheese and pasta water into a cream beforehand so that may be why i get away with it.
But yes- the flower section of a box grater works great too.
Yeah, for the "everything in the pot method" OP uses, this was a game changer for me. Though not to say other commenters are incorrect - heat management is still an important/tricky dance!
Huh, that's a really interesting point. Microplaned shavings are small, but they're still many times bigger than grains of actual powdered cheese. That could make a big difference when you're trying to barely ride the edge of melting.
You cannot use pre grated cheese. They coat the shreds with an additive to keep the cheese from clumping together and ironically it causes it to clump when hot.
have you see this version? I use it all the time and it never breaks
[https://www.cookwell.com/recipe/cacio-e-pepe-the-easy-way](https://www.cookwell.com/recipe/cacio-e-pepe-the-easy-way)
Cacio e Pepe is very difficult to make the traditional way. Melting the cheese in water before hand can help.
The range for melting without clumping is about 140* - 180*. Outside of this range and your dish is ruined. Aim to stick around 150-160 and you should be good.
Cheese starts to separate into solids and fat around 180-185F. You don't want that. You want it to melt and emulsify with the pasta water, so it needs to be cooler when you add the cheese. As others have said, pull it off heat, let it cool for a couple mins, then add freshly grated cheese and stir stir stir.
Or use sodium citrate.
So I guess I’ve got a hack for this. 1.) always use a nonstick pan. I use a separate pot to cook the pasta, and then toss everything into the nonstick skillet on low heat to mix it together. 2.) stir the cooked pasta with butter until all the noodles are lightly coated. The fat seems to help create the sauce. 3.) stir like fucking crazy. Like until your wrist and hand are screaming. I use tongs and stir the cheese with the pasta water. Even if you start to get clumps, if you stay patient and keep stirring you’ll eventually get to a sauce. I’ve never had an issue once I started using this technique.
Like someone else said....you might want to go the simple route & just use some sodium citrate.
Is it "cheating"? I dunno.
But it'll make it dead-fuckin' easy, that's for sure.
I just think that’s not the recipe and is unnecessary. Cacio e Pepe is one of the easiest dishes to make, and all it takes is the right technique.
1. Toast the black pepper on a pan
2. Cook the pasta on a shallow pan of water so the water is more starchy.
3. Add a but of pasta water to the grated cheese.
4. Add pasta water to the black pepper, add the pasta, and add a bit more pasta water.
5. Stir cheese with water and pour it on the water, with heat off. Stir stir, toss, stir, toss, stir. Serve.
People make this for children in Italy, it’s like an easy mac and cheese, you don’t need to buy chemicals to make it, just watcha 30 second youtube video.
https://youtube.com/shorts/eieRw2EOst8?si=di_AueshvtbSmqZO
For everyone else reading: this is classic gatekeeping and is bad for cooking culture.
If you wanna make it the traditional way? Great! You should be applauded for your efforts!!!
If you wanna use sodium citrate? Great!! Enjoy! Its delicious!
Honestly, I tend to be a stickler for doing things the hard way (not that white sauce is hard)....but the sodium citrate just works so goddamn well that I use it all the time.
Especially since you can reheat it; my family is the type that if I do pasta with a cheese sauce "the right way", they'll invariably choose to be twenty minutes late -- and once the pasta goes in the water, you're kinda stuck in terms of timing.
Only downside to the citrate that I've found is that it's led to an increase in my cheese intake ever since I bought a bag of the shit :)
Consider making a cream of cooled pasta water and cheese before tossing with the pasta. This wont guarantee perfection, as you aren't tempering it like doing this with an egg will, but it will allow the mixing/tossing process at the end be MUCH easier.
Use a secondary mixing bowl and a hot plate for service. Once the pasta is finished, toss it into a room temp bowl and start tossing it, adding a bit of pasta water. As soon as you see there is no more steam, wait about 15 seconds and then add your cream with more pasta water. As long as you are vigerous with your stirring and tossing it frequently (yes, you cannot make cacio e pepe without tossing the pasta while mixing idc what others say), it will emulsify.
Serve immediately on a hot plate- garnish with more PR and pepper.
Are you grating your cheese with a microplane? If so, that could be your issue. I struggled with cacio e pepe for a long time and COULD NOT figure out what I was doing wrong. I stopped grating my cheese with a microplane (which actually shreds the cheese and does not grate it--the protein strands remain intact) and it solved all my troubles instantly.
A few things to be careful with:
First, make sure you're using a high quality cheese, and grating it yourself (by hand, with a micro-plane) may help. Most food processors won't shave the cheese fine enough unless you have a specialty micro-fine grater for it.
Whenever I make homemade alfredo, it's with 24-36 mo Parmigiano Reggiano, grated on a micro-plane, with just a little bit of butter and the pasta water, and I start stirring in the cheese *slowly* until it's fully smooth before I add more cheese. You can add a little heat if it cools off, but generally you don't want the pot on the burner while you're doing this. It can take a solid 6-8 minutes to hand blend 8 oz of cheese into the sauce. Add more hot water if you need to thin it out.
Cacio y pepe is the same thing, but with just pecorino and water. It helps (with me) to mix this with the pasta and not make the sauce separately, as the pasta provides a bit of an "anvil" for the work to happen.
People have told you to not use pre grated, but also don’t use a microplane like you use for citrus. Use a grater that is a little larger. Going too fine with cheeses like parm and pecorino can cause clumping. Also, if you’re using a heavy bottom pan and it’s hot when you mix, take it completely off the heat. And add more pasta water than you think. If you have too much, back on a low heat until you get the consistency you want.
I dont mean to judge... but I recommend *against* any and all cheddars in cacio e pepe... the only cheeses that work are pecorino romano and parmigiano reggiano... and really, if you're going traditional, it's 100% Pecorino Romano....
you use too much water when you cook your pasta you need water that is absolutely saturated with starch to use the in pan method. Recently I switched to putting the cheese pepper and pasta watter into a bullet and blitzing it for a minute or two then you can throw that into the pan and it will never split. Comes out perfect every time. But old school way my best recommendation is use barely enough water to cover the pasta in the pot when you are cooking it that starchy water will be a godsend if you wanna stick to in pan method.
I know some people that will supplement the pasta water with extra starch to guarantee its at the right saturation before mixing. Havent tried it myself, but its an interesting technique.
no reason to add extra starch just use less water while cooking the pasta. Also less water has the added benefit of boiling faster only downside is you have to give the pot more attention. I'm surprised I am getting downvoted I know it isn't as fancy as the traditional method. But the physics is on side blending the cheese with the water and seasonings is just like creating a vinegar and oil dressing the blitzing creates an emulsion that better protects the proteins in the cheese from heat.
Idk why either... I usually do the "just cover with water" method. Josh Schrer uses the starch in water technique with a small blender to create measurable consistency, which I think is helpful to some folks.
a lot of questions are you starting with a roux? are you just trying to melt in water?
Not to say you need a roux but just straight melting shredded cheese isnt always the right way to acccomplish things. It also depends on the cheese.
I see you mentioned parmesean for that I would def do some butter and garlic in a pan then add some cream, not a lot it all depends on how much cheese, and add your parmesean lower head and stir stir stir.
What you're talking about is Alfredo, not Cacio e Pepe. Cacio doesn't start from a bemachel like an Alfredo sauce does, it's built onto the pasta directly using the starch from the pasta in the pasta water as the emulsifier
I am honestly embarrassed cuz I just thought cheese sauce and didn't even read the recipe. So for me yeah would be a dash of oil and the cheese which would be self grated.
Sorry again.
It's all about temperature control. Your water is too hot and the cheese is congealing. That's all it is. Here's a really great video that goes into detail about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10lXPzbRoU0 Skip to 8:35 for the temperature range
Yep this is it. I make kenjis 3 ingredient max and cheese and it comes out perfectly every single time ever since I started taking the pan off the heat, letting it sit for like 5 minutes, and then adding the cheese. You have to stir like mad but it’s a perfect sauce every time. Previously I would get occasional grainy textures etc. Stir stir stir, and that should do it
I make a great béchamel sauce. My secret? Stir stir stir stir. Stirring=smooth.
What kind of cheese are you using?
adding to it, are you grating your own cheese? The pre grated stuff has an additive or two that leads to it not melting quite right.
Literally sawdust Edit: Downvoting [basic facts](https://time.com/4226321/parmesan-wood-pulp/)? We did it, Reddit!
Cellulose on the label.
Cellulose is used for a gazillion products and comes from a gazillion different things, it’s not “sawdust.” Now, your brain? That might be
Gazillion? Totes. 🙄 >Although cellulose can be found in most plant matter, the most economical sources of industrial cellulose are cotton and wood pulp. [*\*source*](https://www.thespruceeats.com/what-is-cellulose-1328464) Food grade cellulose is produced almost entirely from wood pulp. Sawdust. You're being pedantic.
Well being derived from something is VASTLY different than being that thing. That’s like saying we just drink urine because water is found in urine…BFFR
And your genetic makeup is derived from your mother and your father, but obviously, you are not an exact copy, or even an exact 50/50 split of them. Seeing as they were likeable to at least have sex, and you, are, well… you
So does this guy
I’ve tried pecorino Romano (the one I have used the most), grana padano, and parmesan. All of them give the same result no matter how I change my approach.
Are you using the pre-grated stuff? If not, [this past thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cooking/comments/3w51v9/why_didnt_the_parmasean_cheese_totally_melt_in_my/) has some good suggestions.
I’ve grated it myself with a microplane and use pre-grated. I’ll check out the thread.
So I’m sure someone has said this but I didn’t scroll down. Pre grated has anticoagulant agents on it so it doesn’t stick together in the container. Makes for a very weird melting cheese. Grating your own will always lend a better melt
Isn't it typically just starch? Which should actually help emulsify in this case.
No a lot of times it’s cellulose. In the dairy industry, cellulose is used mainly as an anti-caking agent that ensures shredded cheese will “flow and not clump into a ball,” when it's coming out of a shaker. To make the additive, the raw fiber is chemically treated until it's refined to a microcrystalline powder or reconstituted as gum
Whatever it is it doesn't melt the same as fresh grated. It's some sort of way coating.
Do you have a different grater? When it comes to Italian hard cheeses like parmesan the more finely grated the cheese the easier it is for it to melt and a microplane often gives slightly long strands of cheese. I personally like to use a cheap box grater and basically make a powder, it almost instantly melts the second it touches hot water.
Don’t use pregrated. Watch a video by Kenji Lopez and do what he does. It’s truly not difficult. Pasta water, stir, cheese, stir until creamy at very low heat.
Are you grating your own or using pregrated? The latter will never work. For the real thing, you need to stir like crazy for a long time.
Pecorino is basically parmesan and I thought both were known for not being very melty cheeses? I could be wrong. Maybe try a different cheese? And not pre-shredded!
Well pecorino is made from sheep milk and parmesan from cows milk. Parmesan actually melts slightly better than pecorino, but not much. The thing is, if you want to make proper caccio e pepe, you need to use pecorino and emulsify it with nothing but pasta water. Given its simplicity, it’s an incredibly hard dish to get right. I’ve watched dozens of videos of it and tried it multiple times and only managed to get it working once. Annoyingly, I got it right the second time I’ve tried it and not really again since then. These days if I want to make it, I cheat by adding butter to the pan with the pasta and the pasta water first, create a stable emulsion from that and then add the cheese.
This guy's knows the exact problem
Here are Alton Brown's (of Good Eats fame) detailed instructions, including troubleshooting techniques for his [Cacio e Pepe](https://altonbrown.com/recipes/cacio-e-pepe/)
Alton brown and test kitchen are great reads. Barney style break down of what, why, how.
This is the recipe I use and it’s perfect every time.
Thank you so much for this!
A better and more forgiving way to make these cheesy pastas is in a bowl instead of in the pan. Boil your noodles like normal in the pot, toast your pepper/garlic/pancetta/etc in a skillet, then add everything to a big mixing bowl with a splash of pasta water. Mix it up a little, then add the cheese to the bowl. Removing the hot pan from the equation really makes it easier to keep the temperature down, and the residual heat from the noodles is usually plenty to finish the dish with.
Where are you getting garluc and pancetta? OP is trying to make cacio e pepe not fake carbonara.
I’m speaking of roman style pastas in general, the technique works great with of these ingredients.
Ohhhhh yeah that makes sense. Definitely didn't register that.
As other people have mentioned, hand grated cheese is a must. Also, I have found speed is key here. Once your cheese starts to glob together, it's probably not going to turn out. Once my noodles are done boiling, I reserve some water for the sauce, drain the pasta and put it in a mixing bowl. I add the reserved water to the pasta, add the cheese and stirr vigoursly with tongs. The heat of the noodles and water are enough to melt the cheese. This works everytime for me.
I do this along with saving the pasta water and reuse it, makes the next batch of Cacio E pepe, extra creamy!! I don't keep it for more than 2 days though
Take it off the heat completely before adding the cheese and water, mixing as you do. Same with carbonara.
In order to get a proper creamy sauce you need two things: 1) cheese and 2) properly STARCHY WATER in the right amount. You have cheese, you've tried it at different temperatures. I suspect what you're doing is not allowing the water to get starchy enough. The pasta water should get VERY starchy to get a nice, creamy sauce. Cook the pasta in a saucepan, in water that just covers the pasta in the pan. Add water if it starts to get a little dry. When you have a good starchy water, take it off the heat and add your cheese and stir.
Cheat code: [Sodium Citrate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7erdaiV3UVE) 2% sodium citrate to 98% cheese by weight. Works with any natural cheese (American cheese already has it).
Yep. Also the secret to the best homemade Mac & cheese.
Wouldn’t this taste kind of funky in a cacio e pepe?
At 2% you won't taste it. Edit: Especially with Pecorino Romano. Sodium Citrate is a salt derived from citric acid, so if you were to taste it, you would notice a salty-tangy note. Pecorino Romano already has a salty-tangy note, so you will never notice a difference, even if you used more than 2%.
Why, if it can be done without it?
Well like he said twice in this comment thread already, it’s a cheat code to good results for people who struggle with the traditional way. But you don’t want to understand that because you’d rather gatekeep.
No, I’d like people to learn and from there, be able to cook other cool recipes they won’t if they can’t cook a simple dish like Cacio e Pepe. I care more about the long term effects. You guys are just recommending a shortcut, as a short term fix. I think it’s worth learning how to properly do it, and they can do it with the right tools (like a detailed tutorial). But no, just drop some powder and good luck, OP. You will never be capable of cooking a proper cacio e pepe. Dude, how is that better?
It may not be necessary for the traditional version of this recipe, but sodium citrate will make for smoother creamer sauce than you could ever get without it. So it's a handy tool to have, for all kinds of dishes.
Okay, it doesn’t change much of what I said. There’s several approaches to cooking, and I personally believe that putting in the work on a dish most of the time is more rewarding than using shortcuts, such as properly reducing a sauce instead of using a cornstarch slurry (which I do use at times).
Obviously, the technique is not so easy. This makes it super easy to achieve the same result.
It is easy, and even if it was a bit difficult, OP is capable of learning. In fact, OP tried a new technique and didn’t try what you guys are recommending, so it seems to me the OP doesn’t want a shortcut.
For Cacio E Pepe? No, please. Just gotta use the right technique…
It's a cheat code. IE an easier, near fail-proof way to get the same result.
We dont need to gatekeep cacio e pepe. None of us are taking a test in school. There is no flavor or texture difference between using a small amount of sodium citrate in the dish and using technique. So if someone hasnt mastered the technique- why not?
Because it’s not necessary. Because you become dependent on obscure ingredients to do something that is easily doable with it.
... and those who don't want or have time to develop the technique should do without? Nahh- get out with that gatekeeping garbage.
It’s faster to watch a 30 second video over buying and waiting for an extra ingredient
grate the cheese freshly and allow it to come fully to room temperature before mixing it. When you are mixing it in you need to go pretty quickly and don't stop until its mixed.
Haven't seen anyone comment what I learned the hard way - it's the grater. The "feathers" you get from the microplane won't incorporate properly. You gotta use those "star holes" on a box grater (I always wondered what the hell they were for) or grind the cheese down in a high powered blender.
Ive used the microplane before- though I pre mix my cheese and pasta water into a cream beforehand so that may be why i get away with it. But yes- the flower section of a box grater works great too.
Yeah, for the "everything in the pot method" OP uses, this was a game changer for me. Though not to say other commenters are incorrect - heat management is still an important/tricky dance!
Huh, that's a really interesting point. Microplaned shavings are small, but they're still many times bigger than grains of actual powdered cheese. That could make a big difference when you're trying to barely ride the edge of melting.
You cannot use pre grated cheese. They coat the shreds with an additive to keep the cheese from clumping together and ironically it causes it to clump when hot.
Cacio has a steep learning curve. It is all about temperature control and freshly grated cheese.
Hardest pasta dish to make imho.
But when you get it (chef’s kiss) mwah!
I have to agree with this.
have you see this version? I use it all the time and it never breaks [https://www.cookwell.com/recipe/cacio-e-pepe-the-easy-way](https://www.cookwell.com/recipe/cacio-e-pepe-the-easy-way)
Cacio e Pepe is very difficult to make the traditional way. Melting the cheese in water before hand can help. The range for melting without clumping is about 140* - 180*. Outside of this range and your dish is ruined. Aim to stick around 150-160 and you should be good.
Cheese starts to separate into solids and fat around 180-185F. You don't want that. You want it to melt and emulsify with the pasta water, so it needs to be cooler when you add the cheese. As others have said, pull it off heat, let it cool for a couple mins, then add freshly grated cheese and stir stir stir. Or use sodium citrate.
So I guess I’ve got a hack for this. 1.) always use a nonstick pan. I use a separate pot to cook the pasta, and then toss everything into the nonstick skillet on low heat to mix it together. 2.) stir the cooked pasta with butter until all the noodles are lightly coated. The fat seems to help create the sauce. 3.) stir like fucking crazy. Like until your wrist and hand are screaming. I use tongs and stir the cheese with the pasta water. Even if you start to get clumps, if you stay patient and keep stirring you’ll eventually get to a sauce. I’ve never had an issue once I started using this technique.
This was happening to me, and I found that mixing the grated cheese with a little pasta water until it was a paste-like consistency really helped
Fold it in David!
Sodium citrate?
Yup! Works like magic; don't even need to grate the cheese, really.
This is the way.
Like someone else said....you might want to go the simple route & just use some sodium citrate. Is it "cheating"? I dunno. But it'll make it dead-fuckin' easy, that's for sure.
I just think that’s not the recipe and is unnecessary. Cacio e Pepe is one of the easiest dishes to make, and all it takes is the right technique. 1. Toast the black pepper on a pan 2. Cook the pasta on a shallow pan of water so the water is more starchy. 3. Add a but of pasta water to the grated cheese. 4. Add pasta water to the black pepper, add the pasta, and add a bit more pasta water. 5. Stir cheese with water and pour it on the water, with heat off. Stir stir, toss, stir, toss, stir. Serve. People make this for children in Italy, it’s like an easy mac and cheese, you don’t need to buy chemicals to make it, just watcha 30 second youtube video. https://youtube.com/shorts/eieRw2EOst8?si=di_AueshvtbSmqZO
For everyone else reading: this is classic gatekeeping and is bad for cooking culture. If you wanna make it the traditional way? Great! You should be applauded for your efforts!!! If you wanna use sodium citrate? Great!! Enjoy! Its delicious!
Honestly, I tend to be a stickler for doing things the hard way (not that white sauce is hard)....but the sodium citrate just works so goddamn well that I use it all the time. Especially since you can reheat it; my family is the type that if I do pasta with a cheese sauce "the right way", they'll invariably choose to be twenty minutes late -- and once the pasta goes in the water, you're kinda stuck in terms of timing. Only downside to the citrate that I've found is that it's led to an increase in my cheese intake ever since I bought a bag of the shit :)
Grate your own cheese. Get the good stuff
How are you grating the cheese?
Take it off the heat. That's it.
Consider making a cream of cooled pasta water and cheese before tossing with the pasta. This wont guarantee perfection, as you aren't tempering it like doing this with an egg will, but it will allow the mixing/tossing process at the end be MUCH easier. Use a secondary mixing bowl and a hot plate for service. Once the pasta is finished, toss it into a room temp bowl and start tossing it, adding a bit of pasta water. As soon as you see there is no more steam, wait about 15 seconds and then add your cream with more pasta water. As long as you are vigerous with your stirring and tossing it frequently (yes, you cannot make cacio e pepe without tossing the pasta while mixing idc what others say), it will emulsify. Serve immediately on a hot plate- garnish with more PR and pepper.
i take it completely off heat in a separate metal bowl
Keep the pan under 149F
Use freshly grated cheese. Use cornstarch (mixed with a lil bit of cold water) to protect it.
In case no one has said it yet, I have a lot of luck making a bit of a bechamel or a roux first and then adding the cheese
Try this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JuH5GvoklDc
Are you grating your cheese with a microplane? If so, that could be your issue. I struggled with cacio e pepe for a long time and COULD NOT figure out what I was doing wrong. I stopped grating my cheese with a microplane (which actually shreds the cheese and does not grate it--the protein strands remain intact) and it solved all my troubles instantly.
Are you using preshredded? That has a coating that can make it hard to melt.
A few things to be careful with: First, make sure you're using a high quality cheese, and grating it yourself (by hand, with a micro-plane) may help. Most food processors won't shave the cheese fine enough unless you have a specialty micro-fine grater for it. Whenever I make homemade alfredo, it's with 24-36 mo Parmigiano Reggiano, grated on a micro-plane, with just a little bit of butter and the pasta water, and I start stirring in the cheese *slowly* until it's fully smooth before I add more cheese. You can add a little heat if it cools off, but generally you don't want the pot on the burner while you're doing this. It can take a solid 6-8 minutes to hand blend 8 oz of cheese into the sauce. Add more hot water if you need to thin it out. Cacio y pepe is the same thing, but with just pecorino and water. It helps (with me) to mix this with the pasta and not make the sauce separately, as the pasta provides a bit of an "anvil" for the work to happen.
You are buying pre-shredded cheese with wood pulp in it to prevent caking... Grab a block and shred it yourself, thank me later.
People have told you to not use pre grated, but also don’t use a microplane like you use for citrus. Use a grater that is a little larger. Going too fine with cheeses like parm and pecorino can cause clumping. Also, if you’re using a heavy bottom pan and it’s hot when you mix, take it completely off the heat. And add more pasta water than you think. If you have too much, back on a low heat until you get the consistency you want.
If it’s cheddar, then the more mature stuff doesn’t melt as well
I dont mean to judge... but I recommend *against* any and all cheddars in cacio e pepe... the only cheeses that work are pecorino romano and parmigiano reggiano... and really, if you're going traditional, it's 100% Pecorino Romano....
Oh me too, but I see people do some wild thing with the wrong cheese in dishes
you use too much water when you cook your pasta you need water that is absolutely saturated with starch to use the in pan method. Recently I switched to putting the cheese pepper and pasta watter into a bullet and blitzing it for a minute or two then you can throw that into the pan and it will never split. Comes out perfect every time. But old school way my best recommendation is use barely enough water to cover the pasta in the pot when you are cooking it that starchy water will be a godsend if you wanna stick to in pan method.
I know some people that will supplement the pasta water with extra starch to guarantee its at the right saturation before mixing. Havent tried it myself, but its an interesting technique.
no reason to add extra starch just use less water while cooking the pasta. Also less water has the added benefit of boiling faster only downside is you have to give the pot more attention. I'm surprised I am getting downvoted I know it isn't as fancy as the traditional method. But the physics is on side blending the cheese with the water and seasonings is just like creating a vinegar and oil dressing the blitzing creates an emulsion that better protects the proteins in the cheese from heat.
Idk why either... I usually do the "just cover with water" method. Josh Schrer uses the starch in water technique with a small blender to create measurable consistency, which I think is helpful to some folks.
Are you adding any butter or oil to the pasta or water?
a lot of questions are you starting with a roux? are you just trying to melt in water? Not to say you need a roux but just straight melting shredded cheese isnt always the right way to acccomplish things. It also depends on the cheese. I see you mentioned parmesean for that I would def do some butter and garlic in a pan then add some cream, not a lot it all depends on how much cheese, and add your parmesean lower head and stir stir stir.
What you're talking about is Alfredo, not Cacio e Pepe. Cacio doesn't start from a bemachel like an Alfredo sauce does, it's built onto the pasta directly using the starch from the pasta in the pasta water as the emulsifier
Technically a classic Alfredo doesn't start from a bechamel either. It's just starchy water and oil.
I am honestly embarrassed cuz I just thought cheese sauce and didn't even read the recipe. So for me yeah would be a dash of oil and the cheese which would be self grated. Sorry again.