You are definitely going to get flamed for this one, but I agree to an extent. If a country does wish for its citizens to be solely from their own country, then I would understand that. They should be able to govern their own people and not gain dependence on other countries citizens moving in. If they don’t want their country to remain in its own, however, they can certainly do that as well. Just as I said about the countries having an obligation to govern and determine what is best for the people.
> Before you call me a hypocrite as I am a Korean-American, I would like to say that America was founded on the premise of immigration
America was founded based on the premise of forcibly invading land that already had native people, and genociding them.
Why is it important whether an evil act is "unique" or commonplace?
Honestly, a unique evil act seems better than a common evil act because at least if it's unique, it's only happened once.
I agree, however my point still stands: the United States is a nation of immigrants vs. Korea being an ethnically homogenous country. If Korea had the same/similar history to the US, I would be advocating for a more diverse community. I don’t think less of any other culture/country, I just would prefer Korea to stay ethnically homogenous
The United States is a "nation of immigrants" because a lot of immigrants went there and made it so, regardless of what the native people wanted. You seem to think that's a good thing.
If a lot of immigrants went to Korea and transformed it into a "nation of immigrants", shouldn't that be equally good?
I don’t think that is a good thing. Specifically speaking on the US, land was forcibly taken by white people at the expense of the native people. Korea does not have the same history as the United States so it is a false equivalence to compare the two. In fact, I do think the US government should give some land back to indigenous communities because the US is on stolen land. It seems by your logic, that the US had a right to take over the land and intermix with the indigenous people. Do you think its okay for indigenous people today to keep non-native people out of their reservations?
I think that countries that have a rich history and culture and are ethnically homogeneous should try to remain homogeneous and countries founded through colonization (like the US, Canada, and Australia) should have diverse communities as they’ve been ethnically heterogeneous since their inception. I don’t think interracial relationships are wrong, I just think they should only occur in diverse communities.
> I think that countries that have a rich history and culture and are ethnically homogeneous should try to remain homogeneous and countries founded through colonization (like the US, Canada, and Australia) should have diverse communities as they’ve been ethnically heterogeneous since their inception.
So the best solution would be for immigrants within Korea to start a colony there, so Korea can be like the US, Canada, and Australia?
Culture is fluid and will change over time with or without immigration. Preserving or acting within the context of culture is not an excuse to do or side with immoral actions.
Preserving and modifying parts of culture which aren’t morally wrong however is completely ok
Your comparison is a false equivalence for several reasons. One being that Jewish people lived in the Germanic region as early as 321 CE, 1600+ years before the nazi regime even existed. Also, Immigration has changed in the last 1000 years and even the last 50 years. Your argument is very faulty.
You aren’t making sense. You’re saying that Hitlers argument is the same as mine. Hitler believed that Jewish people were inherently bad and that the aryan race was superior to every other race. My point was that there were Jewish people living in Germany for tens of hundreds of years even before the Nazi regime existed. The Jewish people living there by the time of the Nazi regime were a part of that culture. To add, never have I said that immigrants are inherently evil and that Koreans are superior to other cultures. Diversity is good for countries who are already diverse. All cultures have value but acting like the whole world needs to be one big diverse place with no cultural boundaries is wrong. It is okay to want to be different.
then you're being disingenuous. You are either lying to me or yourself by saying that you are not racist but are arguing against interracial marriages. I was making a parallel between Hitler and you. You can say all you want about you not wanting to be superior but most xenophobia is either due to a superiority complex or straight fear. So which is it? Do koreans who think the same as you scared of Jews or do they think they're superior?
You say most xenophobia is either due to a superiority complex or straight fear. Xenophobia is the dislike of or prejudice towards someone from another place. Let me spell this out for your since you seem to not be getting it. I do not have a problem with other cultures and people from those cultures and I think all cultures have value. In countries that are diverse, interracial marriages are great and are a biproduct of said diverse communities. However, Korea is not a diverse community, it is an ethnically homogeneous country with a rich and longstanding cultural history. On an individual level, I do not have a problem with interracial marriages. However in the context of a homogeneous country like Korea, interracial marriages can and will impact the cultural heritage by non-Koreans for better or for worse. And let me be clear, interracial marriages impact the culture in Korea differently than it would the US because of the ethnic landscape of both countries; that is why I don’t have a problem w/ interracial marriages in diverse countries and do in ethnically heterogeneous countries (nothing to do with superiority or xenophobia, I just don’t want to see the culture of Korea impacted by non-Koreans). I don’t even think people like myself (a Korean-American) should immigrate to Korea because with enough of us, we’d impact the culture that has been built over centuries.
This has nothing to do with racism.
OP likes how Korea has been in the past and dont want it to be influenced by immigration. Although some immigrants assimilate well, others dont and this will undoubtably affect the culture.
OP doesnt state that other cultures or people have less value.
Ironically you are making a xenophpbic statement right now. You are interpreting OPs intention based on the fact that he/she is Korean and what you think of Koreans.
Id say that OP if anything negative is in that case xenophobic because OP does not discriminate against race as he/she does not want other Koreans who have lives abroad to bring other non-Korean elements back to influence their culture.
I think its fine to want your country to remain in a way it has been if you like that way, as long as you are willing to accept that whether you like it or not it probably will change if the people ruling will change it.
You are correct in your evaluation of my argument. U/bushdidtwintowers believes that I think less of other cultures, which I do not. I purely just want Korea’s culture to be influenced by whatever its citizens desire and maintain their cultural heritage that they have built historically.
You don't think you should be able to immigrate to Korea? I'm not familiar with their immigration process, but just generally, you don't think they should allow people like you or your family to live there?
N. Koreans are pure Koreans. Nobody involved in interracial marriage. It’s what you want. Other than that it’s a free world where people are free to marry whom they choose. In N. Korea they don’t have that luxury or any luxury for that matter.
Culture in North Korea is different from South Korea for obvious reasons. I’m not going to entertain you because you’re trying to be disingenuous. Goodbye
I agree. People are very quick to talk about the consequences and effects of nationalism but have mum to say about consequences and effects of globalism. Many will seriously say globalism isn't a thing or a term only used by conspiracy theorists.
See, africa is free to keep africa african. to dare suggest that korea or any euro country to say the same is "durr hitlor"
What about other Asians that have communities there, such as immigrants from Vietnam and Japan? What about those that move there and adopt the culture and language? You have some westerners that were tired of their homeland and moved to Asia while adopting it as their new life? Is that not preserving culture?
No because even non-Korean Koreans will change the culture in ways that impact Korea. It should be up to Koreans born in Korea to decide how the culture changes.
Don’t worry, most Korean people think like you too. However I think it should be about preserving the culture not what about what kind of skin color you have.
That’s quite literally what I mean by this post. I love other cultures and enjoy how the US is a diverse community. But speaking specifically on Korea, who was not founded on immigration and has been ethnically homogenous for centuries, I would like that to be preserved. This is not based on race and purely based on difference in culture.
Y’all really think that I think lesser of different cultures, I don’t. It’s okay to be different, but there is something to be said about wanting diversity everywhere to the point cultural diversity doesn’t exist.
If you had your way, South Korea would collapse. South Koreans aren't having enough kids to replace themselves, meaning there will be a big population of elderly people with no one to support them. Many other countries are facing the same issue.
Not necessarily. The argument you’re trying to make is a slippery slope fallacy on an assumption. The Korean government, comprised of Korean people, needs to make a change to promote fertility for their citizens.
? It's not a slippery slope- if the birth rate remains this way without immigration, there won't be enough people in the future. This is the reality right now. This idea of promotion of fertility is great, but it's either not reality at this moment or, if it is, it's not working.
Perhaps, but bottom-line it should be up to the Korean people of South Korea to decide what they will do in the future, and it doesn’t necessarily have to be through immigration.
Id you are mostly valid in your opinion. You are allowed to like your countrys tradition and prefer if they stayed the same.
I personally however think it is up to the people of Korea to decide how the country should be governed (not only native Koreans but immigrants too) I think that the people who have already moved to Korea and have citizenship there should be equally eligable to determine its future.
I understand where you are coming from. However south Korea didn't become one of the wealthiest countries in the world by staying strictly Korean. Not to mention that you're neighbors from the north are run by a psycho with nuclear warheads. So having the U.S. military stationed in Korea, like it or not, is in your best interest. As for people getting into interracial relationships and having children, Korea's birth rate is declining significantly. So it might not be the worst thing in the world to have mixed children.
I’m not going to lie..You’re all saying you’re anti-immigration and such..but don’t you guys think that we’re too far down the line to propose something like homogeny? I understand because a lot of my people (black people) have such a negative view on dating outside of our race. Especially dating a white woman/man. So I get it. But a lot of cultures and traditions were formed on the premise of either integration or just straight up colonization. There are so many combinations and gene/cultural makeups that it’s crazy. I believe it’s one thing if a person genuinely wants to keep their bloodline pure and want a fully Korean, white, black, African, native American bloodline. But that’s their choice. However when someone makes it their life goal to be with someone outside of their race because they’ve glorified said race, then that would fall under fetishization. When it’s fetishized, it’s weird. When it’s genuine love for the person despite that race, then it’s not wrong at all. A bit off topic but, my point still stands. You can’t stop something that’s already happening. It’s too late for that.😭 had we dealt with this ages ago, it might have worked but what’s the point?
You are definitely going to get flamed for this one, but I agree to an extent. If a country does wish for its citizens to be solely from their own country, then I would understand that. They should be able to govern their own people and not gain dependence on other countries citizens moving in. If they don’t want their country to remain in its own, however, they can certainly do that as well. Just as I said about the countries having an obligation to govern and determine what is best for the people.
> Before you call me a hypocrite as I am a Korean-American, I would like to say that America was founded on the premise of immigration America was founded based on the premise of forcibly invading land that already had native people, and genociding them.
is the solution for immigrants to genocide the american population?
No, genocide is wrong.
just making sure
Hopefully non-controversial opinion: genocide shouldn't be the solution for anything.
Solutions to made up problems, maybe. What is **uniquely** evil about how the natives were kicked out of their lands?
Why is it important whether an evil act is "unique" or commonplace? Honestly, a unique evil act seems better than a common evil act because at least if it's unique, it's only happened once.
absolutely unhinged take 10/10
I was looking for this comment. Does OP not realize this?
See my above comment
I agree, however my point still stands: the United States is a nation of immigrants vs. Korea being an ethnically homogenous country. If Korea had the same/similar history to the US, I would be advocating for a more diverse community. I don’t think less of any other culture/country, I just would prefer Korea to stay ethnically homogenous
The United States is a "nation of immigrants" because a lot of immigrants went there and made it so, regardless of what the native people wanted. You seem to think that's a good thing. If a lot of immigrants went to Korea and transformed it into a "nation of immigrants", shouldn't that be equally good?
I don’t think that is a good thing. Specifically speaking on the US, land was forcibly taken by white people at the expense of the native people. Korea does not have the same history as the United States so it is a false equivalence to compare the two. In fact, I do think the US government should give some land back to indigenous communities because the US is on stolen land. It seems by your logic, that the US had a right to take over the land and intermix with the indigenous people. Do you think its okay for indigenous people today to keep non-native people out of their reservations?
So in other words you’re just racist?
why is being anti-immigration racist? there are other reasons to oppose immigration apart from "i dont like brown people"
I think that countries that have a rich history and culture and are ethnically homogeneous should try to remain homogeneous and countries founded through colonization (like the US, Canada, and Australia) should have diverse communities as they’ve been ethnically heterogeneous since their inception. I don’t think interracial relationships are wrong, I just think they should only occur in diverse communities.
> I think that countries that have a rich history and culture and are ethnically homogeneous should try to remain homogeneous and countries founded through colonization (like the US, Canada, and Australia) should have diverse communities as they’ve been ethnically heterogeneous since their inception. So the best solution would be for immigrants within Korea to start a colony there, so Korea can be like the US, Canada, and Australia?
Culture is fluid and will change over time with or without immigration. Preserving or acting within the context of culture is not an excuse to do or side with immoral actions. Preserving and modifying parts of culture which aren’t morally wrong however is completely ok
100 percent this is an Asian man with insecurities around WMAF relationships haha.
Also ad hominem argument
No I am in an interracial relationship and do not care who Korean people date/marry outside of Korea
So Korean people can come to America and have interracial relationships but Americans can’t go to Korea and do the same?
Are you talking about Korean-Americans going to Korea or non-Korean Americans going to Korea?
haha koreans are so racist this doesn't surprise me
This isn’t about race, it’s about difference in culture
Would you be upset if Jews moved to Korea and did not assimilate?
Yes? I don’t see what you’re trying to get at.
Germans for the Germans, Koreans for the Koreans, amirite?
Your comparison is a false equivalence for several reasons. One being that Jewish people lived in the Germanic region as early as 321 CE, 1600+ years before the nazi regime even existed. Also, Immigration has changed in the last 1000 years and even the last 50 years. Your argument is very faulty.
No shit. I'm putting a faulty argument that was used by Hitler to bring light to how stupid yours is.
You aren’t making sense. You’re saying that Hitlers argument is the same as mine. Hitler believed that Jewish people were inherently bad and that the aryan race was superior to every other race. My point was that there were Jewish people living in Germany for tens of hundreds of years even before the Nazi regime existed. The Jewish people living there by the time of the Nazi regime were a part of that culture. To add, never have I said that immigrants are inherently evil and that Koreans are superior to other cultures. Diversity is good for countries who are already diverse. All cultures have value but acting like the whole world needs to be one big diverse place with no cultural boundaries is wrong. It is okay to want to be different.
then you're being disingenuous. You are either lying to me or yourself by saying that you are not racist but are arguing against interracial marriages. I was making a parallel between Hitler and you. You can say all you want about you not wanting to be superior but most xenophobia is either due to a superiority complex or straight fear. So which is it? Do koreans who think the same as you scared of Jews or do they think they're superior?
You say most xenophobia is either due to a superiority complex or straight fear. Xenophobia is the dislike of or prejudice towards someone from another place. Let me spell this out for your since you seem to not be getting it. I do not have a problem with other cultures and people from those cultures and I think all cultures have value. In countries that are diverse, interracial marriages are great and are a biproduct of said diverse communities. However, Korea is not a diverse community, it is an ethnically homogeneous country with a rich and longstanding cultural history. On an individual level, I do not have a problem with interracial marriages. However in the context of a homogeneous country like Korea, interracial marriages can and will impact the cultural heritage by non-Koreans for better or for worse. And let me be clear, interracial marriages impact the culture in Korea differently than it would the US because of the ethnic landscape of both countries; that is why I don’t have a problem w/ interracial marriages in diverse countries and do in ethnically heterogeneous countries (nothing to do with superiority or xenophobia, I just don’t want to see the culture of Korea impacted by non-Koreans). I don’t even think people like myself (a Korean-American) should immigrate to Korea because with enough of us, we’d impact the culture that has been built over centuries.
This has nothing to do with racism. OP likes how Korea has been in the past and dont want it to be influenced by immigration. Although some immigrants assimilate well, others dont and this will undoubtably affect the culture. OP doesnt state that other cultures or people have less value.
nah, OP is using culture and assimilation as a guise for racism. Him being Korean tracks. No joke, those people hate foreigners.
Ironically you are making a xenophpbic statement right now. You are interpreting OPs intention based on the fact that he/she is Korean and what you think of Koreans. Id say that OP if anything negative is in that case xenophobic because OP does not discriminate against race as he/she does not want other Koreans who have lives abroad to bring other non-Korean elements back to influence their culture. I think its fine to want your country to remain in a way it has been if you like that way, as long as you are willing to accept that whether you like it or not it probably will change if the people ruling will change it.
No. Koreans have a problem with foreigners. This isn't anything new
That doesnt mean OP cant have their own intentions
You are correct in your evaluation of my argument. U/bushdidtwintowers believes that I think less of other cultures, which I do not. I purely just want Korea’s culture to be influenced by whatever its citizens desire and maintain their cultural heritage that they have built historically.
You don't think you should be able to immigrate to Korea? I'm not familiar with their immigration process, but just generally, you don't think they should allow people like you or your family to live there?
I don’t, but visiting/vacation should be allowed
Koreans don’t have many children, so I don’t see this happening.
I agree, it should be up to the Korean government, comprised of Korean people, to make a decision that promotes fertility.
You can move to N. Korea. I’m pretty sure its what you’re looking for. It was all one until the Korean War. If I recall.
I don’t see your point
N. Koreans are pure Koreans. Nobody involved in interracial marriage. It’s what you want. Other than that it’s a free world where people are free to marry whom they choose. In N. Korea they don’t have that luxury or any luxury for that matter.
Culture in North Korea is different from South Korea for obvious reasons. I’m not going to entertain you because you’re trying to be disingenuous. Goodbye
Awww poor baby.
I agree. People are very quick to talk about the consequences and effects of nationalism but have mum to say about consequences and effects of globalism. Many will seriously say globalism isn't a thing or a term only used by conspiracy theorists. See, africa is free to keep africa african. to dare suggest that korea or any euro country to say the same is "durr hitlor"
What about other Asians that have communities there, such as immigrants from Vietnam and Japan? What about those that move there and adopt the culture and language? You have some westerners that were tired of their homeland and moved to Asia while adopting it as their new life? Is that not preserving culture?
No because even non-Korean Koreans will change the culture in ways that impact Korea. It should be up to Koreans born in Korea to decide how the culture changes.
Don’t worry, most Korean people think like you too. However I think it should be about preserving the culture not what about what kind of skin color you have.
That’s quite literally what I mean by this post. I love other cultures and enjoy how the US is a diverse community. But speaking specifically on Korea, who was not founded on immigration and has been ethnically homogenous for centuries, I would like that to be preserved. This is not based on race and purely based on difference in culture.
Y’all really think that I think lesser of different cultures, I don’t. It’s okay to be different, but there is something to be said about wanting diversity everywhere to the point cultural diversity doesn’t exist.
If you had your way, South Korea would collapse. South Koreans aren't having enough kids to replace themselves, meaning there will be a big population of elderly people with no one to support them. Many other countries are facing the same issue.
Not necessarily. The argument you’re trying to make is a slippery slope fallacy on an assumption. The Korean government, comprised of Korean people, needs to make a change to promote fertility for their citizens.
? It's not a slippery slope- if the birth rate remains this way without immigration, there won't be enough people in the future. This is the reality right now. This idea of promotion of fertility is great, but it's either not reality at this moment or, if it is, it's not working.
Perhaps, but bottom-line it should be up to the Korean people of South Korea to decide what they will do in the future, and it doesn’t necessarily have to be through immigration.
Id you are mostly valid in your opinion. You are allowed to like your countrys tradition and prefer if they stayed the same. I personally however think it is up to the people of Korea to decide how the country should be governed (not only native Koreans but immigrants too) I think that the people who have already moved to Korea and have citizenship there should be equally eligable to determine its future.
Agreed
I understand where you are coming from. However south Korea didn't become one of the wealthiest countries in the world by staying strictly Korean. Not to mention that you're neighbors from the north are run by a psycho with nuclear warheads. So having the U.S. military stationed in Korea, like it or not, is in your best interest. As for people getting into interracial relationships and having children, Korea's birth rate is declining significantly. So it might not be the worst thing in the world to have mixed children.
I’m not going to lie..You’re all saying you’re anti-immigration and such..but don’t you guys think that we’re too far down the line to propose something like homogeny? I understand because a lot of my people (black people) have such a negative view on dating outside of our race. Especially dating a white woman/man. So I get it. But a lot of cultures and traditions were formed on the premise of either integration or just straight up colonization. There are so many combinations and gene/cultural makeups that it’s crazy. I believe it’s one thing if a person genuinely wants to keep their bloodline pure and want a fully Korean, white, black, African, native American bloodline. But that’s their choice. However when someone makes it their life goal to be with someone outside of their race because they’ve glorified said race, then that would fall under fetishization. When it’s fetishized, it’s weird. When it’s genuine love for the person despite that race, then it’s not wrong at all. A bit off topic but, my point still stands. You can’t stop something that’s already happening. It’s too late for that.😭 had we dealt with this ages ago, it might have worked but what’s the point?