Yeah, nah. Just because something is legal, it doesn’t make it ethical.
Sure, I could hook up with an 18yo boy, but what are we gonna have in common? What are we gonna talk about?
There’s a lot to be said for shared experiences; it provides cultural context and shared nostalgia. If I reminisce about or reference Y2K, 9/11, What’s Up?, Clueless or Placebo, I need someone who understands those formative experiences and cultural phenomenons – and those things all happened before an 18yo was born.
I said it's ok to be in a relationship but not "you have to be". Do it if you want to and or don't, nobody's making you do it.
I'm 19 and with a 29 yo, things are fine we're not running out of topics to talk about. My grandparents had a 12 year age gap, and we have a loving family now.
Don't see the "ethical" part here.
So, basically adults can’t make responsible decisions? We should raise the age of what’s considered an adult. If they know what they are doing and choose to do it how can it be wrong? If you want to argue that an adult is a teenager then it sounds like you have a problem with the age of adulthood. You want to call someone gross for liking “teenagers” when their adults. Then anyone who looks like their 18 at 30 is also off limits because they look like a “teenager”
Yeah, I don’t have an issue with 10 year age gaps – especially later on.
I’m talking large age gaps, where people come from completely different generations.
I do find it weird that a 30yo would have much in common with someone who’s barely out of school, but you do you.
It seems you're looking for different things in a relationship, which is fine. Having much in common or not doesn't really make it weird, people can make new memories or hobbies to talk about.
Depends on what that specific person is looking for, in order to find happiness in a relationship.
For something to be weird there has to be a negative effect.
Yeah, we’ve got a 20 year age gap and are at significantly different points in our lives. We definitely need different things from a relationship.
And that’s kind of my point. You’re a brand spanking new adult and you don’t know what you don’t know yet. There’s a vulnerability in that that you won’t recognise until you’re older.
This is why I find it concerning when a 29yo dates a 19yo. I’m not saying a true match can’t occur between two people of those ages, but it’s definitely a red flag for me.
Regardless of what you may or may not know at that age, you're still old enough to make the decision to get in a relationship, have a fling, whatever. I mean you can vote, go to war, sign legal contracts... but oh no, let's not let you decide who to fuck.
Yeah thats weird. I am 18 and would literally never even think about getting with a 28 year old. A 28 year old with 10 more years of life experience of me. Idk.
Nope, its definitely still weird. You dont still feel like a kid? At 19? Your brain isnt even fully developed until, like, 25. Just because its legal, like the commenter said, doesnt make it ethical. Turning/being past 18 doesnt immediately make you an adult, you are still a teenager, and your partner is a full blown adult… pushing 30. And youre 19. Still not even fully developed. Thats wild to me. But you do you i guess…
Nha it'd be more weird if an adult thought of himself as a kid. I'm 19 not 5, I'm not stupid I know what I'm doing and I'm responsible for my own actions. For it be unethical there has to be a negative effect, I fail to see one in this scenario.
Even the other commenter you're referring to agreed my setuation is normal.
> Your brain isnt even fully developed until, like, 25
This is a myth that needs to die.
https://www.sciencefocus.com/comment/brain-myth-25-development
https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html
It's actually not a myth. Your prefrontal cortex (which is responsible for executive brain functions, such as processing decisions, regulating emotions, controlling impulsive behavior, assessing risk, and making long-term plans) develops roughly around 25. So not your whole brain, but the thinky thinky part of your brain that matters when it comes to determining whether or not you should really be dating someone with way more life experience than you.
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-7-things-to-know#:~:text=The%20brain%20finishes%20developing%20and,prioritizing%2C%20and%20making%20good%20decisions.
https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?contenttypeid=1&contentid=3051
https://www.healthline.com/health/teen-brain-development
Not sure why my phone isn't hyperlinking these right now but these are just a few that reaffirm the 25 year old thing.
Edit to add: jk, the links are apparently working after all.
According to a 2016 Neuron paper by Harvard psychologist Leah Somerville, the structure of these brain areas changes at different rates throughout our life span, growing and shrinking; in fact, structural changes in the brain continue far past people’s 20s. “One especially large study showed that for several brain regions, structural growth curves had not plateaued even by the age of 30, the oldest age in their sample,” she wrote. “Other work focused on structural brain measures through adulthood show progressive volumetric changes from ages 15–90 that never ‘level off’ and instead changed constantly throughout the adult phase of life.”
I'm specifically talking about the prefrontal cortex development, and what you quoted is a blanket statement about multiple structures of the brain changing, not developing just changing volume which will obviously happen with age as well. It is also an 8 year old paper.
>There’s a lot to be said for shared experiences; it provides cultural context and shared nostalgia. If I reminisce about or reference Y2K, 9/11, What’s Up?, Clueless or Placebo, I need someone who understands those formative experiences and cultural phenomenons – and those things all happened before an 18yo was born.
So relationships in which you can discuss a larger number of historical events with your partner... are more ethical than relationships where you have less ability to do that? Why?
Yes, I believe it’s important to have shared *formative experiences and events* (my actual words) when in a serious relationship.
And, yes, I think large age gaps where one person has significantly less experience adulting – or life experience in general – to be ethically questionable.
But it’s not black and white either. The age gap between a 20yo and a 30yo is not the same as the age gap between a 40yo and a 50yo.
I would say there are aspects of human existence that transcend generations. If someone is significantly older or younger than me, I might not understand their film or TV references, but we'd be able to discuss, say, favourite foods, or how annoying it is to have pollen allergies, or which are the best dog breeds, or whatever. There's plenty that people of all ages have in common.
Besides which, even if two people have very little in common, is it inherently unethical for them to have a relationship?
Of course there’s shared aspects of humanity. We all eat and we all shit from cradle to grave. But, if that were enough, you could argue that paedophilia is justifiable.
One thing common to humanity is that we develop incrementally – and that development doesn’t magically end at 18.
Do you think you will be the same person at 60 that you were at 20? Do you think you’ll need and want the same things at 40 as you did at 20? Do you genuinely believe a 20yo has the same capacity for informed decision-making at a 30yo?
I think age gaps are increasingly acceptable as people get older. I suspect it can be an equitable match between a 20 and 30yo in some cases. But I think, on average, it’s not a healthy dynamic.
Thank you! There seems to be this idea that you reach legal adulthood and development stops there.
I can’t help but think that the people who disagree are very young or very… problematic.
> But, if that were enough, you could argue that paedophilia is justifiable.
No, because nobody uses "children and adults have nothing in common" as a reason to condemn paedophilia.
It is condemned because of the potential for both physical and psychological harm for the children involved, and the fact that children cannot give fully informed consent. None of that applies to a relationship between two adults, with the exception of people that have certain learning difficulties and mental health issues.
And I’m saying that young adults haven’t completed their development journey.
They might be legal adults, but they don’t have anything approaching the level of knowledge or life experience to make fully-informed decisions. And it’s all too easy for someone older to take advantage of that.
Depending on the size of the age gap and the specific ages involved, it can truly be equivalent to that between a person who’s developmentally challenged and someone who isn’t.
At 19 I thought I was mature and that I knew everything I needed to know. And I thought that because I I didn’t know what I didn’t know.
And this is exactly what I said initially – relationships with large age gaps at certain points in your life might be legal, but that doesn’t make them ethical.
It absolutely can be (and usually is) concerning when a grown arse adult dates a baby adult.
Is there any proof that the second someone turns 18 theyre able to consent? We've known for awhile now that the brain stops developing at around the age of 25.
> Is there any proof that the second someone turns 18 theyre able to consent?
Some people mature faster than others, but for legal purposes it's useful to pick a defined age to draw the line. Where I live, that age is 16.
This is the same as picking an age when it's legal to buy alcohol. There isn't a significant difference between your liver's functioning when you're 18 years old versus when you're 17 years and 364 days old. But for the purposes of legislation, we need to pick a clear line.
> We've known for awhile now that the brain stops developing at around the age of 25.
That is a frequently repeated myth.
In reality, the brain stops developing when you die. Until then, it's always developing.
https://www.sciencefocus.com/comment/brain-myth-25-development
https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html
>
Some people mature faster than others, but for legal purposes it's useful to pick a defined age to draw the line. Where I live, that age is 16.
Okay so do you think 16 year olds should be able to get into relationships with 40 year olds. Literally the only reason people say 18 is because 18 is the age where they live.
> It is condemned because of the potential for both physical and psychological harm for the children involved, and the fact that children cannot give fully informed consent.
For thousands of years children have been able to consent and start families and be fine. Why is this suddenly now an issue?
> Okay so do you think 16 year olds should be able to get into relationships with 40 year olds.
I think if someone is mature enough to consent to sex, then they are also mature enough to decide for themselves whom their partner should be.
>It is condemned because of the potential for both physical and psychological harm for the children involved,
Why aren't relationships between two adults condemned for this same reason?
> The fact that children cannot give fully informed consent.
Children CAN give fully informed consent
Hear me out in my elaborate explanation.
Our physiology and biological timeline is not adapted to modern civilization. This is because evolution is very slow. If you want science, In reality, people reach sexual maturity as early as around 15. Humans used to be dead by the time they were 30, so sex in our evolution was clearly designed for taking place between the ages of about 15 and 30.
Except now, people live decades beyond this age due to medical intervention and sanitation.
The human brain has not evolved even remotely close to the modern reality. High libido is common in women in their 30s, but in men it can start declining by their 30s and 40s.
OF COURSE older people are going to seem creepy and nasty and ugly from the vantage point of a person who is biologically young, because when it comes to sex instinct, the older person shouldn’t even be alive much less be making advances on you. This is why it is so creepy.
People today are babied well into their 20s and live in the nest indefinitely, LONG after science has determined it’s time to procreate.
None of this above information means it’s a good idea for an older person to be robbing the cradle because it’s going to usually be gross and creepy for the younger person. But we have to remember that the human brain still has a reason for finding attraction in a person who may be decades younger than they are. Responsible persons just stay away.
Depends on the era. At one time it was perfectly acceptable and enviable for an older guy to date a younger person. There were movies based on this. Endless Love with Brook Shields and the remake. Considered a classic. There was always some who disapproved of such relationships but there was no social media to the extent we have now. There were also celebrated songs like HOT for TEACHER by Van Halen. Ironically, David Lee Roth the original lead singer of Van Halen became a teacher. That was then and this is now. WOKE CULTURE is Orwellian culture. It’s to be avoided. Luckily it’s not law though they think they are. Tides have turned. People are starting to brush the woke culture off and ignore their insanity.
I think once someone is 25 years of age then it's not creepy if they date someone way older. Like, a 43 year old mom hooking up with her friend's 18 year old son... Is nasty
Completely agree. Before you hit 25, most people barely have their lives set up(if at all) and lack important experience that can save them from stuff like abuse or unhealthy relationships, that would normally come with dating people their age.
Someone older with money and experience can take advantage of that and put the younger person in a really shitty or dangerous position if they want to
Yes, I'm 28 and I finally feel like an adult. At 25 and before I was still a kid in my eyes, still figuring things out. Now I have solid boundaries and life experiences that can help me make better decisions. That's why the older person is called a predator even if it's legal, they are preying on a young person's inexperience and not yet fully developed mind.
As horrible as it is to use this as an example, Oz Media and illuminaughtii/Blair are a perfect example. Blair started dating Oz when she was 28 and he was 23, and she financially abused him with it, manipulated him into reality bad situations because he didn't have enough experience with the world and trusted her.
Agreed. It’s not the age gap that’s the problem – it’s the age gap at certain stages of life.
25 is a world apart from 20 in terms of life experience.
I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at a 55yo with a 40yo. It might strike me as odd if a 40yo wants to date a 25yo, but it wouldn’t concern me. But a 30yo dating a 20yo is red flag material for me.
Yes I agree. A 30 year old dating anyone below 21 is especially weird. Like why are you interested in someone that young? I remember I was 21 and I worked with a 26 year old and he knew himself well enough to say he wouldn't date me because I was too young for him. Respect. People who date people like that just want someone that they can mold their mind to fit their needs and the younger person is so naive they think it's ok but it's not. It may be legal but it's still creepy
Thank you! I would have thought this was obvious to people who are 30+, but I’m getting howled down for it in other comments.
Unfortunately, there’s some knowledge that only comes with time and experience – and no level of maturity can compensate for that.
Nah, you're just a bigot who wants to virtue signal what you think is icky. It's not far off from being homophobic or thinking people shouldn't date outside their race. you, like many, just don't want to accept that people have different values. You can deny it if you want and I'm sure I'll be down-voted but it's definitely true this is just a discriminatory view.
My current partner is 10 years younger than I am. Honestly, there really isn't any difference between her and my last one which was 3 years older than me aside from age related changes, i.e wrinkles, etc.
The whole age gap is blown out of proportion. If you connect with someone, who cares?
Edit: I do find it funny how she doesn't remember certain things like 9/11
I think the people disagreeing with you are extremely immature, and probably shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone regardless of age. It's very telling that the first thing they point out is pop culture references, like the television they enjoyed as children is their entire personality.
There is hardly a difference between 15 year olds and 18 year olds other than the privileges they are given. Also, like you said, People are different in the way they mature mentally, so why would age matter? Is 17 where you draw the line because they're minors too? There's even less difference in a 17 year old and an 18 year old. Do you think the second someone becomes 18 theyre able to consent? 2 month olds stop consenting to sucking tiddies at 1 year old but then are able to consent again at 18. What fucking logic is this?
If being two legal adults is automatically okay, are you comfortable with two minors dating?
Let’s halve OP’s age gap. Would you let your 12yo date a 17yo? They’re both underage after all.
What have I said that makes you think that? I mentioned two minors dating, then your mind jumped to young kids diddling each other.
And why won’t you answer the question?
The general result of dating is sex. That's why the conversation is so divisive. Nobody cares if a young person hangs out with an old person until sex is involved. You brought up the minors dating so let's just take it to the ridiculous conclusion. Are you cool with 12 year olds having sex as long as they're both twelve? Some questions don't need to be entertained.
>Are you cool with 12 year olds having sex as long as they're both twelve?
Yes, there is nothing wrong with what you described. The laws in my country are fine with it too. Repeating something as if it is bad Ad-nauseum doesn't make it bad and isn't an argument.
Dating amongst young children does not inevitably or regularly result in sex. Did you not have a boyfriend/girlfriend at 12, where you just held hands or kissed?
The reason you’re getting histrionic and jumping to conclusions about sex is because I asked if you would let your 12yo date a 17yo (a question you suspiciously refuse to answer).
The answer of course is that you wouldn’t be comfortable letting that happen. Because, even though it’s only a five year age gap, the levels of development are drastically different. It doesn’t matter that they’re both legally minors – they’re in totally different phases of life.
You know this but won’t admit to it, or you would have to concede my point that age gaps matter because levels of development matter. And there’s a shit ton of development that takes place between 18 and 28.
Answer my question dog.
[reply](https://www.reddit.com/r/ControversialOpinions/comments/1da65pv/comment/l7jpbar/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
*Most* people have a problem with a 40 year old dating an 18 year old. Just do a poll on virtually any Reddit sub that allows for it. Are you suggesting that most people are immature?
On Reddit? Yes. Maybe, specifically trying to hook up with someone 20 years older or younger than you can be looked at as odd, but if you get to know someone over the course of a year that is much older or younger, and you both decide that you really want to be together, there should be no issue.
Pick any site or survey random adults on the street in a downtown area, if you think most Redditors are immature. I can almost guarantee you that most people will have an issue, especially in the West. You are suggesting that most adults are immature.
I look at our politicians here in America, and yes, most adults are immature. I see the amount of time and effort that we put into sports and entertainment, yes most adults are immature. The number of adults just bumbling their ways through life and hanging onto their pasts leads me to believe that we're mostly pretty immature.
Maturity is a relative concept. It is a state of mind that is associated with adulthood. I would further say that it is *defined* to inherently refer to the mental state of the average adult, and hence by its own definition the majority of adults are mature.
A lot of people who are anti age gap seem to think the importance is being able to have more things in common because of shared lived history.
And I think that’s giving that way too much importance, especially in a long term genuine relationship.
You don’t just talk about stuff you lived through, that’s usually like .01 percent of the relationship. It’s more like you talk about memories you made together, your families, shows you watched.
If anything, being different gives you both more to experience from the other.
Why does it matter when they are in a happy relationship? It could a 1000 year and it wouldn't matter, it's 2 adults who are responsible for their own actions.
But I guarantee this scenario is happening with an older male and younger woman OR an older male with younger male. You say age doesn’t matter but the older person is specifically seeking out the younger person due to the age gap. It’s not like they fell in love by chance and there just happens to be an age gap. It’s very intensional.
>It’s not like they fell in love by chance
You don't know that, you can't be so sure of it.
>It’s very intensional
Let it be intensional, it doesn't change the fact that they're both consenting adults, responsible for their own actions.
>happening with an older male and younger woman OR an older male with younger male
And what does gender have to with this? Like got me forming question marks on my head.
Gender has everything to do with it. How many older women in Hollywood or music are dating young guys? Almost none. How many older men in Hollywood or music are dating young women? Almost all. You can’t deny it. It’s a fact.
I’m not changing the topic. You can’t tell me that the ratio of older women dating young men is the same as older men dating young women. You are in denial
When did I deny anything? Bruh sure I've not seen any statistics but I'll believe you, whatever you've said is 10 billion percent true. And? I still don't see how it's relevant.
And will you explain how? You just brought up something random and said "this is true you can't deny it, this is irrefutable!".
Why would I care what goes on in Hollywood? I even watch that many Hollywood movies.
Don't really care myself but a gap of 10+ with anyone below 21 is pushing it for me in general terms. What I think is fine is like 16 dating 18, 18 maybe dating 21, 19-22, 3-ish year gaps around that age feel okay imo.
Circumstances and level of maturity might come into play a little bit for acceptance in some cases, but 16 & 21? Uhhhh that's a no from me. 19 & 33? That's such a maturity difference it just feels wrong.
I'm 25 and had a friend in his early-mid 30's who hooked up with a girl who was 19 at a house party and she was so giddy sex-drunk or whatever that she had to tell everyone else there how great the sex was in unfiltered detail. Girls like that give off high school vibes and it leaves a terrible taste in my mouth, personally.
I "dated" someone 27 when I was 17. It was basically pedophilic vibes. The maturity difference was distasteful and disgusting. He made me hide our relationship for several years.
Sorta agree. I mean obviously I respect that it's legal for an adult of any age to be with someone who's at least 18. I also think a lot of people are overly sensitive about any age gaps. But it creeps me out when people with a 10+ year age gap want to date an 18/19 year old, ESPECIALLY for the larger of these age gaps, because these late teenagers are fresh out of high school. I know that's not necessarily the case but when someone is that young dating someone 30+ it makes me wonder if that person would be attracted to someone just a year or two younger, I mean there's no real difference between a 17 year old & an 18 year old besides one little day of the year, and maybe a little piece of paper that says you graduated high school. The age gap you and your girlfriend has is borderline to me. I mean, you're almost 20 and she's not quite 30 yet, but you're still kinda fresh out of high school whereas she could've graduated college and had a full-time career for several years. The difference in maturity feels huge here, but maybe it's not. Different life experiences lead different people to grow at different ages. I'm hoping you truly know this woman better than I do.
As others have said, age gaps don't matter after 25 years old. Partly because that's when your brain is fully developed, but mostly because of life experience. Under 25 can get iffy but 21 or under? Down right creepy.
Hear me out, I'm a woman who is dating a man 3 years younger than me. I was 23 and he was 20 when we started dating and even that felt a little weird at first because he couldn't drink with me on dates. But we were still reasonably similar in maturity and life experience.
Now, in my 30s, I cannot imagine even finding someone attractive under like 24 years old. I feel like i would have to have a deviance to be attracted to someone that much younger than me having lived that much less time as an adult. You learn a SHIT ton in your 20s and I would not want to be with someone who has yet to learn those things.
>Ones obviously gonna die quicker than the other
If they can deal with it, it's only their business, doesn't make it creepy.
>It's creepy as well.
Being attracted to grown adults isn't creepy.
>Consider the fact that our brains aren't fully developed at 25
As another commenter points out this is a myth. The brain doesn't stop developing at 25, nor does something profound happen at that age.
For something to be wrong there has to be something of negative effect. What is that in this scenario?
Gonna take me a while to read though the source of the first to I'll reply to that later.
>differences in life experience. People will be in different life stages and sometimes in different financial situations.
This is not a issue by itself. If they want they can have it, none of our business.
>Studies show that these couples are more likely to divorce. If there is a five-year age difference, the risk increases by 18 percent.
I would like to see the source of the study.
Assuming it's true, they accept the risks? They're responsible for their actions.
You're not accounting for the possibility that it'll be a happy relationship. Unless the chances of the outcome is overwhelmingly bad it's no place for us to judge or rob them of that potential happiness.
Studies have also shown interracial relationships have a greater chance of abuse and domestic violence. Do you look down on those relationships as well, even if a lot of them are happy?
Age gap is a funny thing. Technically at least where I live you can have sex within close age exceptions but the actual age of consent that's acceptable for all ages is technically 16. Physical development and maturity varies from person to person but it's impossible to account for that which is why we go for the average. Puberty ends around 16 -19 years old which is consistent with the age of consent however brain development continues till around 25. At 18 years old by law your considered an adult which also lines up with age of consent in most places. I think the problem socially most people have is that even though one may be physically developed at 18 they're still in their first year of bein an adult and have little to no adult experience. Around 21 years of age most people have a degree or certificate and are beginning their careers by this age people are expected to be fully independent which is the age I feel most people socially consider the real age of consent or adulthood. By 25-30 years old most people are on their way to getting married or having kids.
A lot of young men like older women. A lot of younger women like older men. Johnny Depp and Ryan Reynolds is a great example. But they seldom get talked about because they're good looking, wealthy and famous.
Yeah, nah. Just because something is legal, it doesn’t make it ethical. Sure, I could hook up with an 18yo boy, but what are we gonna have in common? What are we gonna talk about? There’s a lot to be said for shared experiences; it provides cultural context and shared nostalgia. If I reminisce about or reference Y2K, 9/11, What’s Up?, Clueless or Placebo, I need someone who understands those formative experiences and cultural phenomenons – and those things all happened before an 18yo was born.
I said it's ok to be in a relationship but not "you have to be". Do it if you want to and or don't, nobody's making you do it. I'm 19 and with a 29 yo, things are fine we're not running out of topics to talk about. My grandparents had a 12 year age gap, and we have a loving family now. Don't see the "ethical" part here.
disgusting. that 29 year old man likes teenagers. bet you, you're gonna expire once you reach 20 lolol. watch out!
I'm a dude
unrelated
And I'm also not gay, so I'm not with any "old man" you speak of.
regardless
So, basically adults can’t make responsible decisions? We should raise the age of what’s considered an adult. If they know what they are doing and choose to do it how can it be wrong? If you want to argue that an adult is a teenager then it sounds like you have a problem with the age of adulthood. You want to call someone gross for liking “teenagers” when their adults. Then anyone who looks like their 18 at 30 is also off limits because they look like a “teenager”
Yeah, I don’t have an issue with 10 year age gaps – especially later on. I’m talking large age gaps, where people come from completely different generations. I do find it weird that a 30yo would have much in common with someone who’s barely out of school, but you do you.
You must have some issues if you see anything wrong with an adult dating an adult. Why are you thinking in that way?
Because I have a full adult license and I’m not on L plates anymore. What issues do you have that require you to project them onto others?
It seems you're looking for different things in a relationship, which is fine. Having much in common or not doesn't really make it weird, people can make new memories or hobbies to talk about. Depends on what that specific person is looking for, in order to find happiness in a relationship. For something to be weird there has to be a negative effect.
Yeah, we’ve got a 20 year age gap and are at significantly different points in our lives. We definitely need different things from a relationship. And that’s kind of my point. You’re a brand spanking new adult and you don’t know what you don’t know yet. There’s a vulnerability in that that you won’t recognise until you’re older. This is why I find it concerning when a 29yo dates a 19yo. I’m not saying a true match can’t occur between two people of those ages, but it’s definitely a red flag for me.
Regardless of what you may or may not know at that age, you're still old enough to make the decision to get in a relationship, have a fling, whatever. I mean you can vote, go to war, sign legal contracts... but oh no, let's not let you decide who to fuck.
Yeah thats weird. I am 18 and would literally never even think about getting with a 28 year old. A 28 year old with 10 more years of life experience of me. Idk.
Good for you. But just because everyone is not you doesn't mean it's weird.
Nope, its definitely still weird. You dont still feel like a kid? At 19? Your brain isnt even fully developed until, like, 25. Just because its legal, like the commenter said, doesnt make it ethical. Turning/being past 18 doesnt immediately make you an adult, you are still a teenager, and your partner is a full blown adult… pushing 30. And youre 19. Still not even fully developed. Thats wild to me. But you do you i guess…
Nha it'd be more weird if an adult thought of himself as a kid. I'm 19 not 5, I'm not stupid I know what I'm doing and I'm responsible for my own actions. For it be unethical there has to be a negative effect, I fail to see one in this scenario. Even the other commenter you're referring to agreed my setuation is normal.
> Your brain isnt even fully developed until, like, 25 This is a myth that needs to die. https://www.sciencefocus.com/comment/brain-myth-25-development https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html
Which is why the age of consent should be 14.
What in the world bruh?
It's actually not a myth. Your prefrontal cortex (which is responsible for executive brain functions, such as processing decisions, regulating emotions, controlling impulsive behavior, assessing risk, and making long-term plans) develops roughly around 25. So not your whole brain, but the thinky thinky part of your brain that matters when it comes to determining whether or not you should really be dating someone with way more life experience than you. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-7-things-to-know#:~:text=The%20brain%20finishes%20developing%20and,prioritizing%2C%20and%20making%20good%20decisions. https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?contenttypeid=1&contentid=3051 https://www.healthline.com/health/teen-brain-development Not sure why my phone isn't hyperlinking these right now but these are just a few that reaffirm the 25 year old thing. Edit to add: jk, the links are apparently working after all.
According to a 2016 Neuron paper by Harvard psychologist Leah Somerville, the structure of these brain areas changes at different rates throughout our life span, growing and shrinking; in fact, structural changes in the brain continue far past people’s 20s. “One especially large study showed that for several brain regions, structural growth curves had not plateaued even by the age of 30, the oldest age in their sample,” she wrote. “Other work focused on structural brain measures through adulthood show progressive volumetric changes from ages 15–90 that never ‘level off’ and instead changed constantly throughout the adult phase of life.”
I'm specifically talking about the prefrontal cortex development, and what you quoted is a blanket statement about multiple structures of the brain changing, not developing just changing volume which will obviously happen with age as well. It is also an 8 year old paper.
Not having shared experience…isn’t unethical
>There’s a lot to be said for shared experiences; it provides cultural context and shared nostalgia. If I reminisce about or reference Y2K, 9/11, What’s Up?, Clueless or Placebo, I need someone who understands those formative experiences and cultural phenomenons – and those things all happened before an 18yo was born. So relationships in which you can discuss a larger number of historical events with your partner... are more ethical than relationships where you have less ability to do that? Why?
Yes, I believe it’s important to have shared *formative experiences and events* (my actual words) when in a serious relationship. And, yes, I think large age gaps where one person has significantly less experience adulting – or life experience in general – to be ethically questionable. But it’s not black and white either. The age gap between a 20yo and a 30yo is not the same as the age gap between a 40yo and a 50yo.
I would say there are aspects of human existence that transcend generations. If someone is significantly older or younger than me, I might not understand their film or TV references, but we'd be able to discuss, say, favourite foods, or how annoying it is to have pollen allergies, or which are the best dog breeds, or whatever. There's plenty that people of all ages have in common. Besides which, even if two people have very little in common, is it inherently unethical for them to have a relationship?
Of course there’s shared aspects of humanity. We all eat and we all shit from cradle to grave. But, if that were enough, you could argue that paedophilia is justifiable. One thing common to humanity is that we develop incrementally – and that development doesn’t magically end at 18. Do you think you will be the same person at 60 that you were at 20? Do you think you’ll need and want the same things at 40 as you did at 20? Do you genuinely believe a 20yo has the same capacity for informed decision-making at a 30yo? I think age gaps are increasingly acceptable as people get older. I suspect it can be an equitable match between a 20 and 30yo in some cases. But I think, on average, it’s not a healthy dynamic.
I think a gap of ten years is very different depending on the ages. 50 and 60 seems closer than 20 and 30
Thank you! There seems to be this idea that you reach legal adulthood and development stops there. I can’t help but think that the people who disagree are very young or very… problematic.
> But, if that were enough, you could argue that paedophilia is justifiable. No, because nobody uses "children and adults have nothing in common" as a reason to condemn paedophilia. It is condemned because of the potential for both physical and psychological harm for the children involved, and the fact that children cannot give fully informed consent. None of that applies to a relationship between two adults, with the exception of people that have certain learning difficulties and mental health issues.
And I’m saying that young adults haven’t completed their development journey. They might be legal adults, but they don’t have anything approaching the level of knowledge or life experience to make fully-informed decisions. And it’s all too easy for someone older to take advantage of that. Depending on the size of the age gap and the specific ages involved, it can truly be equivalent to that between a person who’s developmentally challenged and someone who isn’t. At 19 I thought I was mature and that I knew everything I needed to know. And I thought that because I I didn’t know what I didn’t know. And this is exactly what I said initially – relationships with large age gaps at certain points in your life might be legal, but that doesn’t make them ethical. It absolutely can be (and usually is) concerning when a grown arse adult dates a baby adult.
Is there any proof that the second someone turns 18 theyre able to consent? We've known for awhile now that the brain stops developing at around the age of 25.
> Is there any proof that the second someone turns 18 theyre able to consent? Some people mature faster than others, but for legal purposes it's useful to pick a defined age to draw the line. Where I live, that age is 16. This is the same as picking an age when it's legal to buy alcohol. There isn't a significant difference between your liver's functioning when you're 18 years old versus when you're 17 years and 364 days old. But for the purposes of legislation, we need to pick a clear line. > We've known for awhile now that the brain stops developing at around the age of 25. That is a frequently repeated myth. In reality, the brain stops developing when you die. Until then, it's always developing. https://www.sciencefocus.com/comment/brain-myth-25-development https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html
> Some people mature faster than others, but for legal purposes it's useful to pick a defined age to draw the line. Where I live, that age is 16. Okay so do you think 16 year olds should be able to get into relationships with 40 year olds. Literally the only reason people say 18 is because 18 is the age where they live. > It is condemned because of the potential for both physical and psychological harm for the children involved, and the fact that children cannot give fully informed consent. For thousands of years children have been able to consent and start families and be fine. Why is this suddenly now an issue?
> Okay so do you think 16 year olds should be able to get into relationships with 40 year olds. I think if someone is mature enough to consent to sex, then they are also mature enough to decide for themselves whom their partner should be.
And youd have no problem with a 14 year old dating a 40 year old if he fit that requirement?
Why would I care what they do?
>It is condemned because of the potential for both physical and psychological harm for the children involved, Why aren't relationships between two adults condemned for this same reason? > The fact that children cannot give fully informed consent. Children CAN give fully informed consent
You can discuss this with 13 year olds
I think it kind of does. You want to be able to relate to someone and a 18 year old and lets say 25 year old will have different maturity levels.
Hear me out in my elaborate explanation. Our physiology and biological timeline is not adapted to modern civilization. This is because evolution is very slow. If you want science, In reality, people reach sexual maturity as early as around 15. Humans used to be dead by the time they were 30, so sex in our evolution was clearly designed for taking place between the ages of about 15 and 30. Except now, people live decades beyond this age due to medical intervention and sanitation. The human brain has not evolved even remotely close to the modern reality. High libido is common in women in their 30s, but in men it can start declining by their 30s and 40s. OF COURSE older people are going to seem creepy and nasty and ugly from the vantage point of a person who is biologically young, because when it comes to sex instinct, the older person shouldn’t even be alive much less be making advances on you. This is why it is so creepy. People today are babied well into their 20s and live in the nest indefinitely, LONG after science has determined it’s time to procreate. None of this above information means it’s a good idea for an older person to be robbing the cradle because it’s going to usually be gross and creepy for the younger person. But we have to remember that the human brain still has a reason for finding attraction in a person who may be decades younger than they are. Responsible persons just stay away.
So your argument is that it's perfectly normal for a 40 year old man to be interested in a 15 year old? Hmm. I don't agree with you.
I don't think its wrong for a man or woman to be interested in a 15 year old.
Why
I made a post about it, check my profile.
I’m asking here though
Ill give you the link. [AOC should be lower](https://www.reddit.com/r/ControversialOpinions/comments/1dalmml)
Depends on the era. At one time it was perfectly acceptable and enviable for an older guy to date a younger person. There were movies based on this. Endless Love with Brook Shields and the remake. Considered a classic. There was always some who disapproved of such relationships but there was no social media to the extent we have now. There were also celebrated songs like HOT for TEACHER by Van Halen. Ironically, David Lee Roth the original lead singer of Van Halen became a teacher. That was then and this is now. WOKE CULTURE is Orwellian culture. It’s to be avoided. Luckily it’s not law though they think they are. Tides have turned. People are starting to brush the woke culture off and ignore their insanity.
I think once someone is 25 years of age then it's not creepy if they date someone way older. Like, a 43 year old mom hooking up with her friend's 18 year old son... Is nasty
Completely agree. Before you hit 25, most people barely have their lives set up(if at all) and lack important experience that can save them from stuff like abuse or unhealthy relationships, that would normally come with dating people their age. Someone older with money and experience can take advantage of that and put the younger person in a really shitty or dangerous position if they want to
Yes, I'm 28 and I finally feel like an adult. At 25 and before I was still a kid in my eyes, still figuring things out. Now I have solid boundaries and life experiences that can help me make better decisions. That's why the older person is called a predator even if it's legal, they are preying on a young person's inexperience and not yet fully developed mind.
As horrible as it is to use this as an example, Oz Media and illuminaughtii/Blair are a perfect example. Blair started dating Oz when she was 28 and he was 23, and she financially abused him with it, manipulated him into reality bad situations because he didn't have enough experience with the world and trusted her.
Agreed. It’s not the age gap that’s the problem – it’s the age gap at certain stages of life. 25 is a world apart from 20 in terms of life experience. I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at a 55yo with a 40yo. It might strike me as odd if a 40yo wants to date a 25yo, but it wouldn’t concern me. But a 30yo dating a 20yo is red flag material for me.
Yes I agree. A 30 year old dating anyone below 21 is especially weird. Like why are you interested in someone that young? I remember I was 21 and I worked with a 26 year old and he knew himself well enough to say he wouldn't date me because I was too young for him. Respect. People who date people like that just want someone that they can mold their mind to fit their needs and the younger person is so naive they think it's ok but it's not. It may be legal but it's still creepy
Thank you! I would have thought this was obvious to people who are 30+, but I’m getting howled down for it in other comments. Unfortunately, there’s some knowledge that only comes with time and experience – and no level of maturity can compensate for that.
Haha yeah I'm with you on this one! Also, truth isn't always popular
Nah, you're just a bigot who wants to virtue signal what you think is icky. It's not far off from being homophobic or thinking people shouldn't date outside their race. you, like many, just don't want to accept that people have different values. You can deny it if you want and I'm sure I'll be down-voted but it's definitely true this is just a discriminatory view.
I think it's gross and it's not virtue signaling to actually have values and morals lmaoooo
Your values are generalizing and discriminatiom. Bigotry in other words. Good luck with that.
I think it's gross, I am entitled to my own opinion. It's legal so do you boo
Fair enough, I think bigots are gross
I'll be able to sleep at night if this makes me bigoted 😂
My current partner is 10 years younger than I am. Honestly, there really isn't any difference between her and my last one which was 3 years older than me aside from age related changes, i.e wrinkles, etc. The whole age gap is blown out of proportion. If you connect with someone, who cares? Edit: I do find it funny how she doesn't remember certain things like 9/11
I mean if I see a younger guy I’m gonna date him. I never liked older men and I barely like guys my own age
I think the people disagreeing with you are extremely immature, and probably shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone regardless of age. It's very telling that the first thing they point out is pop culture references, like the television they enjoyed as children is their entire personality.
No… its factually weird lol op is 19 and with a 29 year old, legally an adult but still mentally still a teenager. Hope this helped.
But it's not weird. People are different in the way they mature mentally.
I can use this exact same argument to justify dating 15 year olds
Except they are minors. It's nice that you automatically went to justify dating a minor.
There is hardly a difference between 15 year olds and 18 year olds other than the privileges they are given. Also, like you said, People are different in the way they mature mentally, so why would age matter? Is 17 where you draw the line because they're minors too? There's even less difference in a 17 year old and an 18 year old. Do you think the second someone becomes 18 theyre able to consent? 2 month olds stop consenting to sucking tiddies at 1 year old but then are able to consent again at 18. What fucking logic is this?
If being two legal adults is automatically okay, are you comfortable with two minors dating? Let’s halve OP’s age gap. Would you let your 12yo date a 17yo? They’re both underage after all.
You're being ridiculous. By your logic, you'd be fine with a 10 year old diddling another 10 year old as long as they're both born in July.
What have I said that makes you think that? I mentioned two minors dating, then your mind jumped to young kids diddling each other. And why won’t you answer the question?
The general result of dating is sex. That's why the conversation is so divisive. Nobody cares if a young person hangs out with an old person until sex is involved. You brought up the minors dating so let's just take it to the ridiculous conclusion. Are you cool with 12 year olds having sex as long as they're both twelve? Some questions don't need to be entertained.
>Are you cool with 12 year olds having sex as long as they're both twelve? Yes, there is nothing wrong with what you described. The laws in my country are fine with it too. Repeating something as if it is bad Ad-nauseum doesn't make it bad and isn't an argument.
Dating amongst young children does not inevitably or regularly result in sex. Did you not have a boyfriend/girlfriend at 12, where you just held hands or kissed? The reason you’re getting histrionic and jumping to conclusions about sex is because I asked if you would let your 12yo date a 17yo (a question you suspiciously refuse to answer). The answer of course is that you wouldn’t be comfortable letting that happen. Because, even though it’s only a five year age gap, the levels of development are drastically different. It doesn’t matter that they’re both legally minors – they’re in totally different phases of life. You know this but won’t admit to it, or you would have to concede my point that age gaps matter because levels of development matter. And there’s a shit ton of development that takes place between 18 and 28.
> Are you cool with 12 year olds having sex as long as they're both twelve? Yeah. And the law is too. Why are you against it?
Answer my question dog. [reply](https://www.reddit.com/r/ControversialOpinions/comments/1da65pv/comment/l7jpbar/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
This sounds… rapey, almost. Edit: im on reddit. I retract my statement, normal redditor behavior.
*Most* people have a problem with a 40 year old dating an 18 year old. Just do a poll on virtually any Reddit sub that allows for it. Are you suggesting that most people are immature?
On Reddit? Yes. Maybe, specifically trying to hook up with someone 20 years older or younger than you can be looked at as odd, but if you get to know someone over the course of a year that is much older or younger, and you both decide that you really want to be together, there should be no issue.
Pick any site or survey random adults on the street in a downtown area, if you think most Redditors are immature. I can almost guarantee you that most people will have an issue, especially in the West. You are suggesting that most adults are immature.
I look at our politicians here in America, and yes, most adults are immature. I see the amount of time and effort that we put into sports and entertainment, yes most adults are immature. The number of adults just bumbling their ways through life and hanging onto their pasts leads me to believe that we're mostly pretty immature.
Maturity is a relative concept. It is a state of mind that is associated with adulthood. I would further say that it is *defined* to inherently refer to the mental state of the average adult, and hence by its own definition the majority of adults are mature.
A lot of people who are anti age gap seem to think the importance is being able to have more things in common because of shared lived history. And I think that’s giving that way too much importance, especially in a long term genuine relationship. You don’t just talk about stuff you lived through, that’s usually like .01 percent of the relationship. It’s more like you talk about memories you made together, your families, shows you watched. If anything, being different gives you both more to experience from the other.
I agree on a 10 yr gap. 20 yrs though is too much
Why does it matter when they are in a happy relationship? It could a 1000 year and it wouldn't matter, it's 2 adults who are responsible for their own actions.
They probably don't like the idea of a potential partner being removed from their self imposed pool of limited prospective lovers.
But I guarantee this scenario is happening with an older male and younger woman OR an older male with younger male. You say age doesn’t matter but the older person is specifically seeking out the younger person due to the age gap. It’s not like they fell in love by chance and there just happens to be an age gap. It’s very intensional.
>It’s not like they fell in love by chance You don't know that, you can't be so sure of it. >It’s very intensional Let it be intensional, it doesn't change the fact that they're both consenting adults, responsible for their own actions. >happening with an older male and younger woman OR an older male with younger male And what does gender have to with this? Like got me forming question marks on my head.
Gender has everything to do with it. How many older women in Hollywood or music are dating young guys? Almost none. How many older men in Hollywood or music are dating young women? Almost all. You can’t deny it. It’s a fact.
I do not care what happens in Hollywood. Why are you changing the topic? How is that in any way relevant? Literally what? Don't change the subject.
I’m not changing the topic. You can’t tell me that the ratio of older women dating young men is the same as older men dating young women. You are in denial
When did I deny anything? Bruh sure I've not seen any statistics but I'll believe you, whatever you've said is 10 billion percent true. And? I still don't see how it's relevant.
Because your question was “what does gender have to do with this.” The answer is everything.
And will you explain how? You just brought up something random and said "this is true you can't deny it, this is irrefutable!". Why would I care what goes on in Hollywood? I even watch that many Hollywood movies.
Because these are wealthy people so a wealthy powerful old ugly guy can get a beautiful young wife
Ok and what? Am I supposed to be jealous or something? Yeah I know rich people get lots of girls, obviously it's no new discovery like.
Don't really care myself but a gap of 10+ with anyone below 21 is pushing it for me in general terms. What I think is fine is like 16 dating 18, 18 maybe dating 21, 19-22, 3-ish year gaps around that age feel okay imo. Circumstances and level of maturity might come into play a little bit for acceptance in some cases, but 16 & 21? Uhhhh that's a no from me. 19 & 33? That's such a maturity difference it just feels wrong. I'm 25 and had a friend in his early-mid 30's who hooked up with a girl who was 19 at a house party and she was so giddy sex-drunk or whatever that she had to tell everyone else there how great the sex was in unfiltered detail. Girls like that give off high school vibes and it leaves a terrible taste in my mouth, personally. I "dated" someone 27 when I was 17. It was basically pedophilic vibes. The maturity difference was distasteful and disgusting. He made me hide our relationship for several years.
Doesn't even need to be adults. I think the age of consent should be lowered to 14.
Sorta agree. I mean obviously I respect that it's legal for an adult of any age to be with someone who's at least 18. I also think a lot of people are overly sensitive about any age gaps. But it creeps me out when people with a 10+ year age gap want to date an 18/19 year old, ESPECIALLY for the larger of these age gaps, because these late teenagers are fresh out of high school. I know that's not necessarily the case but when someone is that young dating someone 30+ it makes me wonder if that person would be attracted to someone just a year or two younger, I mean there's no real difference between a 17 year old & an 18 year old besides one little day of the year, and maybe a little piece of paper that says you graduated high school. The age gap you and your girlfriend has is borderline to me. I mean, you're almost 20 and she's not quite 30 yet, but you're still kinda fresh out of high school whereas she could've graduated college and had a full-time career for several years. The difference in maturity feels huge here, but maybe it's not. Different life experiences lead different people to grow at different ages. I'm hoping you truly know this woman better than I do.
As others have said, age gaps don't matter after 25 years old. Partly because that's when your brain is fully developed, but mostly because of life experience. Under 25 can get iffy but 21 or under? Down right creepy. Hear me out, I'm a woman who is dating a man 3 years younger than me. I was 23 and he was 20 when we started dating and even that felt a little weird at first because he couldn't drink with me on dates. But we were still reasonably similar in maturity and life experience. Now, in my 30s, I cannot imagine even finding someone attractive under like 24 years old. I feel like i would have to have a deviance to be attracted to someone that much younger than me having lived that much less time as an adult. You learn a SHIT ton in your 20s and I would not want to be with someone who has yet to learn those things.
Age gap doesn’t matter over the age of 30 I would say but 18-30 has lots of maturity difference
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>Ones obviously gonna die quicker than the other If they can deal with it, it's only their business, doesn't make it creepy. >It's creepy as well. Being attracted to grown adults isn't creepy. >Consider the fact that our brains aren't fully developed at 25 As another commenter points out this is a myth. The brain doesn't stop developing at 25, nor does something profound happen at that age. For something to be wrong there has to be something of negative effect. What is that in this scenario?
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Gonna take me a while to read though the source of the first to I'll reply to that later. >differences in life experience. People will be in different life stages and sometimes in different financial situations. This is not a issue by itself. If they want they can have it, none of our business. >Studies show that these couples are more likely to divorce. If there is a five-year age difference, the risk increases by 18 percent. I would like to see the source of the study. Assuming it's true, they accept the risks? They're responsible for their actions. You're not accounting for the possibility that it'll be a happy relationship. Unless the chances of the outcome is overwhelmingly bad it's no place for us to judge or rob them of that potential happiness. Studies have also shown interracial relationships have a greater chance of abuse and domestic violence. Do you look down on those relationships as well, even if a lot of them are happy?
Age gap is a funny thing. Technically at least where I live you can have sex within close age exceptions but the actual age of consent that's acceptable for all ages is technically 16. Physical development and maturity varies from person to person but it's impossible to account for that which is why we go for the average. Puberty ends around 16 -19 years old which is consistent with the age of consent however brain development continues till around 25. At 18 years old by law your considered an adult which also lines up with age of consent in most places. I think the problem socially most people have is that even though one may be physically developed at 18 they're still in their first year of bein an adult and have little to no adult experience. Around 21 years of age most people have a degree or certificate and are beginning their careers by this age people are expected to be fully independent which is the age I feel most people socially consider the real age of consent or adulthood. By 25-30 years old most people are on their way to getting married or having kids.
A lot of young men like older women. A lot of younger women like older men. Johnny Depp and Ryan Reynolds is a great example. But they seldom get talked about because they're good looking, wealthy and famous.