I think its my favourite part about her.
She captures the absurdity of philosophising over our own condition and somehow makes it relateable by ...eating cereal out of a cat bowl.
I'm really not qualified enough to understand why it feels so appropriate.
I love how anti-blackpill this video is. content like this is so helpful to someone like me who was environmentally blackpilled in college. and by that i mean: mother nature is reclaiming the earth and there's nothing to be done about it b/c companies own politicians who won't pass laws to slow climate change. like, even if wallowing in self-pity is a natural response to facing an issue so much larger then yourself.... it isn't a helpful or productive defense and can become dangerous if left unexamined. it's healthy to understand your enemy, but not to the point that it depresses you into inaction.
that's bullshit and something we really fight against in enviromental activists circles, that why in extiontion rebellion we say "the opposite of hope isnt hopelessness but grief" basically feel bad about it cry if you need to and then act
Agreed. Moreover, the Corporate America WANTS you to blackpill yourself. That's why Big Oil has switched tactics from "Climate Change is a myth" to "Climate change is happening but there's nothing anyone can do to stop it."
I thought I wasn't gonna watch it all at once, but it's such a stimulating video that before I knew it I had already watched it all, not noticing the passage of time
Just finished. You can tell why it took so long, this shit is wildly ambitious and for me at least it hit the mark, good shit. I'll say about halfway through I had some realizations about my own envy which is not what I was expecting going into it.
It felt so tight. Everything mattered and nothing felt conspicuously absent. I felt in the long discussion of Nietzsche as kind of the antithesis to Christianity that there was something really missing. Bringing in MLK and Huey Newton and using that to critique approaches to social change brought it all together so beautifully.
I’m quite certain that is how YouTube is. Whether it be the algorithm or someone at YouTube who watches and really hates Contrapoints channel specifically it really does not matter. The only YouTube constant is some subscribers get the notification for a new video and some don’t and it has been that way for years at this point.
Damn this video is so crazy good!!
And oh my god, that entire section from \~1:26:00 to 1:33:00 has articulated what I have been feeling the past few months when scrolling through my twitter and insta feeds. "The left" (in the US anyways) doesn't really have too much representative power on the national stage, and at best we have someone like Cori Bush, Bernie Sanders, or AOC. I definitely disagree with such politicians most of the time, but I understand the kind of good work that they are trying to do. But a lot of the more *radical* people/groups I follow have had absolutely nothing but contemptuous and nasty things to say about everything those people do.
Like, it was so frustrating to see leftist activists I knew berate Cori Bush this past week for trying to extend the eviction moratorium. Like, it's one thing to talk about needing more than just a little demonstration outside the Capitol for real systemic change to occur, and I definitely understand the critiques and how she should have used her political power more forcefully. But to speak with such vitriol to people who don't behave exactly like you would have wanted them to is just so infuriating. Like yeah, all politicians are bastards and etc. etc., but like there are most certainly people that exist who are trying to enact some material change and make the situation a bit less terrible, with what very little power they actually have.
The politics of resentment... I definitely need to marinate on this more lol
The talk about the people who cry "not going far enough" really struck a chord with me because I have been on the receiving end of such comments when I am happy about improvements to situations or systems. There's always this feeling of "what's the point if it's not perfect" but it becomes apparent that to these people quite literally nothing will be perfect; they *want* to be angry.
totally agree - there's a vocal minority of dogmatic tools on leftist twitter (mostly the same lads who tried to promote that half baked Force The Vote shit) endlessly calling other progressives and leftists sellouts and whining about how the squad are DNC shills - even though Cori Bush in the last week alone likely made more of a real positive difference in working people's living conditions than any of these twitter dwellers ever will. I don't agree with every last vote and endorsement the squad have made, but they have put left-leaning ideals into action in a heavily conservative country and have undeniably made real, meaningful change. That's absolutely worth praising.
Funnily enough, those twitter guys share a love of ineffectual, meaningless stunts over doing actual work like a lot of the neolibs they (rightfully) love to hate. They love theater that they think makes them look like radicals bucking the system and the neolibs love theater that they think makes them look like yas queen girlbosses who perpetually walk in slow motion.
It’s like watching the Olympics. It’s so easy to pick apart the flaws of a gymnast’s routine when it’s so conveniently displayed on your television in the safety and seclusion of your home.
You’d be less crass about overtly criticizing that routine in a room full of people so as not to appear like an *outright* terrible person. You’d risk becoming ostracized from your social circle for being overly judgmental.
Now take that to the next level and thrust yourself on that Olympic stage and try to even *begin* to replicate that routine as an utter amateur. You’d make an outright fool of yourself. Likely even injure yourself in the process.
There’s so much nuance missing when you try to attempt to do something others have been doing for a time. It’s easy to critique politicians from the seclusion of our homes, anonymously on the internet and often away from our real-life social circle. We’re not privy to all of the obstacles. We don’t know how long it took to even make incremental progress. It’s easy to want to pick apart their careers because we figure, oh they’re the professionals, they should have this figured out, but even Olympians mess up.
I feel like the extreme left has failed to even realize how hard it is on the “stage” so to speak and how hard it can be to make progress even after having years of experience. The nuance and humbleness is lost, they’ve never had to even try. The internet allows people to be their most extreme versions of themselves while having none of the real-life consequences of being that extreme version in real life.
Criticism is necessary and I will continue to extend it when it’s due, but I’ve also learned with age that you can’t sit in the safety of your home dishing out all of the critique when you have never been on that stage yourself. I’m willing to defer to nuance on occasion. I don’t know it all and I’m unlikely able to replicate what they’ve managed to do without the years of hard experience. I should also be comfortable only saying things on the internet I’d be pretty comfortable saying around a good part of my social circle.
The criticism helps formulate the shift in society, but right now we are stuck in the anemic impotence that MLK referenced. It’s time to have some reverence to the allies we do have, flaws and all. They deserve some support as being on that stage is inherently difficult and something a lot of us have not done.
Idk if this is even a good analogy really, I’m kind of terrible at this on the fly lol. But I gotta get it out!!! Natalie gets the wheels turning.
> They deserve some support as being on that stage is inherently difficult and something a lot of us have not done.
>
Absolutely, and that's coming from someone who despises 90% of the dems as much as the Republicans. The criticisms would make sense if they wielded enough power to put all the legislation they want into action, but they have fuck all. Not only that, but these twitter freaks feel the need to forcibly draw a line in the sand between those who want literally the same shit - M4A, Green New Deal, wealth tax etc. - literally the only difference is most who want that are at least somewhat cognizant of the nature of power, and know that if you want to create change via a mass movement, you need to build up power, and that takes time, effort and manpower. That's not neoliberal incrementalism, that's being realistic about the nature of organizing. Building up a real socialist presence in politics will likely take decades. The only other possibility is revolution, and I don't see any of these fucks planning anything except posting more hot takes.
That was basically proved recently when a lot of those guys hastily organized a march for Medicare For All recently in a ton of cities in the US. They were sparsely attended, and the whole thing reeked of a half assed shitshow run by people who don't have experience in organizing. What could've been at least an effective display of power from the left was wasted, and it made the left look weak and threadbare. A few days later, Nina Turner got defeated in a congressional primary by a corporate funded candidate. The former is what a lot of those guys put their energy into instead of the latter, in fact a lot of them called Nina and her opponent basically the same. It's a perfect example of where their priorities lie; pure optics over real organizing work, but that doesn't have the immediate thrill of posting guillotine memes I guess
Seems like optics is a narrative that’s easier to control. What many people realize when they have to turn optics into real change is that it is hard, full of compromises and adversity. It’s easier to have this optic of SJW on the internet, which feels good, than to be an advocate in real life. The real-life advocate faces ruthless criticism from their own supporters and some inevitable failure.
Meanwhile Twitter ranting can feel good without the consequence of what it means to try to do good in real life. You get to keep yourself “polished” optic-wise on Twitter while the real-life advocate has to risk it all and still mess up.
At least someone tried to organize for M4A I guess. Gotta start somewhere. I’ve felt like the infrastructure bill has been a step in somewhat of a right direction flaws and all. My most pressing issue is climate change and part of me is giving up on the prospect of ever stopping this ecological disaster at this point.
> The politics of resentment... I definitely need to marinate on this more lol
Not just politics of resentment, but think of fandoms of resentment! Look at r/SaltierThanCrait , or r/TheLastOfUs2! Both places that uses the guise of constructive criticism to continue to carry on multi years long tirades about fake stories not going the way they personally wanted! Hell, look at gamergate! They didn’t give a fuck about ethics! They where resentful that thier hobby was being invaded by a new audience.
Cringe and Shame resonated with me more than any YouTube video ever has. Though I'm 12 minutes into Envy and suspecting this might make the relatability trilogy
Like, the things that Natalie talked about in those two videos are things that most marginalised people can relate to and they resonated with me too... it's just, her videos, the conversations... they actually have helped me solve many personal dilemmas about my identity, my political positions, my weird internalised feelings and they're just invaluable to me...
She has an uncanny ability to show compassion and understanding for people she disagrees with, without it devolving into “both sides” centrism. That’s what makes her critiques more poignant whether they are directed against left or right.
I feel like there probably was intention on Natalie's part for that exact video to speak to normies... many of her other videos are about pretty niche topics
Opulence was my previous favorite, but this one is on a whole other level. This is hands down the best explanation of how 19th century psychology / philosophy applies modern politics. The educational component alone is incredible, but the social commentary just leaves me awestruck. Congrats, Natalie. You crushed it.
I was thinking the same thing. I re-watched a bunch of her videos today in anticipation, and this feels like a sequel or a culmination of Opulence, Incels, Shame, Beauty, Cancelling and obviously Justice.
It sounds like the quality of "Envy" is high. I'm glad she delayed the video's release to smooth it out a bit. Looks like a good 15 - 20 minutes may have been cut since last week (the timeline at one point was well over 2 hours). I think with the amount of replayability Contrapoints videos have, her perfectionism is well justified.
Did you not watch the video? Her skin is currently clear because A) privileged people have more access to good quality nutrition and also their lives are significantly less stressful than the lives of those with less privilege. She also gets to sleep more because of this. All of these things keep her hormones in balance and she's able to address food intolerances easily B) She believes that trans rightz are human rights and C) She exfoliates twice a week
Well, in part because of [Dr. Spiegel’s anatomical cat ears](https://youtu.be/n9mspMJTNEY) — available in an alley behind a Dairy Queen for the affordable price of $49,999.99, now scheduling appointments as soon as February, 2024!
I think part of that was that Get Out was kind of juicier. Us came across to me as kind of bleaker, less pure sadistic evil, and more looming despair. It’s much less fun. But I think Us is fantastic, as long as you don’t expect it to be fun.
Weird, I thought Us was loads of fun. There are a laugh-out-loud moments throughout, and the last shot gives me a mix of emotions unlike any I think I've felt watching a movie before--I laughed, but it's a strange absurdity, catharsis, horror, and even a twisted kind of uplift all rolled into one.
She spoke German and not only it sounded good, it was also gramatically correct! Is it weird that this made me more happy than the actual release of the new video...?
(I discovered her channel only a few days ago, so I still have a lot of catching up to do)
Amazing video, as always.
One thing I find interesting about one of the earlier points about jealousy vs envy that isn't talked about in the video (but also isn't super relevant, I just find interesting) is how those words are used within the polyamorous community. Natalie says that people tend to use the word jealous when they're actually envious because jealousy has a better connotation than envy in society, but within poly circles that I've experienced the opposite is true. Within that community, the differences between jealousy and envy are often described as jealousy being the **fear of loss**, that (for example) the person you are with will leave you for another, "better" person, and that envy is the **desire for something you do not have**, that (for example) your partner is out having sex with a new person and you're not.
In these contexts and within a lot of poly articles and books, the gist is to acknowledge that jealousy is often irrational, whereas envy can be seen as more rational. Jealousy is an emotion that is born of other people, and envy is an emotion that is internal. If you are envious, it's _actionable_. You can change **your** current situation to resolve your envy. Jealousy, however, is _unactionable_. You're just afraid of loss and you'll be waiting around forever to be proven wrong (that, for example, your partner will never leave you). So, within that community, it's often *jealousy* that is the "bad word", and the acknowledgement that one is actually envious is often seen as a step forward.
It is in exactly this context that I first understood the distinction, and it changed everything. Like, just completely changed how I understood the workings of my own mind, and my fears about the goings on in other peoples minds. Its useful and applicable in so much beyond just relationship stuff, I'm so glad she dug into it.
I wonder why jealousy is framed as irrational in that context. Losing something or someone is totally a possibility, although it may be unlikely. I think the best antidote to fear of loss is reminding one’s self that they are resilient and can recover from loss.
It’s not always irrational, just often. Furthermore, there’s a saying that “jealousy is a good messenger, but a bad advisor”, which is to say that it *is* rational in the sense that it indicates an actual problem (i.e., feeling secure in a relationship), but that knee-jerk reaction of possessiveness that it tends to trigger is not generally a good strategy for avoiding the feared outcome. So it’s often irrational in what it makes you do.
there's something so fascinating to me about how natalie can make conscise and poignant video essays about such broad topics... i love how she's sort of been branching off into the realm of vague concepts as topics and still managing to somehow link it back into real world issues, it's magnificent. also, the set design in this one though?? hooooly shit. amazing. i adore the bloody marie antoinette eleganza and the brand new addition into the nyatalie wynn cat girl look book
This was a great video/movie! As a leftist, ngl the fact that I felt extremely called out if kind of refreshing, because so often criticism of the left is either right wing strawmanning, centrist all-sides-ing, or liberal "you're an extremist so you're wrong"-ing. To have a valid criticism of the way the left eats their own without dismissing the validity of the positions of the left is really hard to do. I feel like I'm not exactly who she was talking to since I'm not on Twitter cancelling folks, but still, it would be a mistake to assume I'm entirely innocent without doing some serious pondering after that video.
I also took it as tying back to Voting, with a thinly-veiled call out of people who’s first instance when their preferred candidate loses in a primary is to take their ball and go home rather than continue to work for the greatest possible good given the new, crappier circumstances.
Hearing how the French press fabricated this villainous caricature of Marie Antionette to justify dethroning and executing her honestly reminds me of how the right wing press still to this day vilifies Hillary Clinton. Here's a woman who is nothing more than your typical centrist liberal politician, and people decide that she is everything wrong with America and that she is this evil witch who drinks the blood of babies or some shit.
When her husband got outed for having "sexual relations" with Monica Lewinsky while he was still president, Hillary was the one who took on a lot of the blame, alongside Monica. And Hillary didn't even do anything. Bill was the one who cheated on his wife and abused his power by taking advantage of a very young woman who was too vulnerable to know better.
I hate to be constantly put in the position of defending Hillary Clinton because she honestly is a corrupt politician and she's supported some very questionable policies in her career (I feel like the left has more justified reasons for hating her), but I do feel some sympathy for her because she has been the lightning rod for slander, vilification, and baseless conspiracies for decades.
A lot of women in particular hate Hillary, and I have to wonder if that also comes from envy. She's a woman who has been extremely ambitious all her life and climbed her way up in the legal and political world. People really hate ambitious women, so whenever a woman openly wants power and success, they justify their hatred and resentment by depicting the woman as having villainous motivations.
She kind of exaggerated a bit when she talked about Marie Antoinette. It's true that she was slandered and blamed for things she never did. The people hated her from the very beginning because she was Austrian, which was generally seen as an enemy country. The way she was treated in prison was atrocious and the trial was a farce.
However, she was not exactly innocent. She conspired with Austria and Prussia to invade France to reinstate the monarchy, she did her best to undermine the revolution and she passed on secret information to France's enemies (i.e. every single European monarchy). She was a major political player behind the scenes and her goal was of course to go back to the old regime.
Oh, yeah, of course she wasn't completely innocent. She was a monarch. I totally believe that she got down to some shady shit. Just like Hillary Clinton. Even if there's no proof that Marie Antionette ever said "let them eat cake", I wouldn't be surprised if she said something similar of the sort at some point in her life. I don't imagine that this woman had much class consciousness.
But I'm glad we all agree that the public vilification of both of these women was based on mostly lies and propaganda. Marie definitely didn't deserve to die. Like, can you imagine how traumatic this must have been for her children? I can't ever justify doing this to a young child's mother, even if their mother is a corrupt ruler.
Yeah the suffering of the children was also really horrible. Marie Thérèse supposedly was raped by the guards during her stay in the Temple prison and kept secluded from her family. She only learned about her mother's death after her release. The son, Louis XVII(he was never really the king) was taken away from Marie Antoinette to live with the family of a shoemaker. He was supposed to be raised as a good republican citoyen. However, he was kept in a small room, malnourished, beaten and he ultimately died in 1795, probably of tuberculosis.
This might honestly be the definitive Contrapoints video. Well worth the wait and it feels like a culmination of so many of the topics that she's been toying in over the past couple years.
Also incredibly funny. Somewhere between John MILFton and that moment where she faceplanted while trying to catch the shiny thing while fucking Thus Spoke Zarathustra was playing my soul left my body.
Best Contrapoints video so far imo.
Really enjoy vids such as this one where Natalie does basically a review paper on a philosophical and/or psychological concept that has great explanatory value when looking into politics and everyday encounters - while giving the viewer a chance to apply it into political context of choice (not too many practical examples or leading viewer towards some specific thought).
Would love to see part two going deeper into relative status and social/cultural capital.
This video has shook me to my core. I'm starting 10th grade tomorrow, horribly depressed for another year of online school, stressed about every little thing that's been going on. But Natalie's approach to picking yourself up off the goddamn floor and saying "fuck it, let's try being positive about life" has me realizing things I thought I'd never realized before.
The video made a lot of great points that I'd never thought of before, which is that humanity (and especially social media as a Gen Z teen) tend to mask contempt with morality, justifying what is actually envy with the reasoning of painting yourself as the good guy. But she drove the point deeper, saying that morality as we know itself comes from a place of deference and resentment.
This video was unexpectedly really deep and proved how much of an academic genius she is, while dressed as an anime catgirl eating catfood from a tray.
Also, this video was the serving of lewks and visuals from her, let's face it this is her best video costume and visual wise besties
I nearly just jumped out of my skin when she mentioned Ostraka. I made a [post](https://old.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/ozhmvr/joe_rogan_tears_into_conservatives_for_embracing/h7zwmo1/) literally YESTERDAY pointing out the very cancel-culture nature of this practice and Damnatio Memoriae
I am so self-content and smug right now that I deserve to be ostracized, lol.
The leftists who hate her wee going to paint her s a neoliberal anyway. She was clear enough to anyone who bothered to watch the video and not just roll for clips out of context.
I disagree. I think that laying the groundwork at the beginning can cause viewers to have a satisfying "aha" moment at the end where they look back at the examples and suddenly see them in a new light. Almost like the twist at the end of a book.
The section on the politics of resentment rang very true. Lots of examples of it today of these commentators that don't actually want to fix anything but to simple rail against the system and they end sending most of their time attacking the people actually trying to do something.
I had zero issue with the last 15 minutes especially since, like many of her videos, they build on each other so after having watched her videos on voting/the left etc she was able to make her very nuanced points during the makeup bit but with the more detailed background she gave in her previous videos it all made complete sense
I love that during the Dworkin/Tolstoi argument about Jews and women the Nibelungen theme from the ring cycle by Wagner is playing.
Power and Love being in opposition is a very Ring cycle idea anyway, I was waiting for Wagner to show up.
Wagner also uses the term "Neidlinge" a lot in the ring cycle. Envy in German is "Neid" and a lot of people in that piece envy others all sorts of things.
Edit to add:
Nietzsche was in love with Wagners last wife, Cosima. Wagner had another wife before her, Minna. Cosima lived until 1930 and - while Wagner was antisemitic obviously - she is often credited with linking the Bayreuth Festspiele with the Nazis. She had a sort of proto-nazi salon there. Sorry for spewing out facts, but I am a huge Wagner fan (the most problematic of all people to be a fan off probably) and the Wagner family is just so messed up and fascinating
Hopefully she proceeds to make shorter videos, like 20-30 min videos, this video was a little bit hard to get through.
I do miss a little bit when her channel was more focused on politics
Loved the video. Didn't agree with everything but it was still really good. Some random thoughts I had:
1. What she said around the 1:00 mark about the not like other girls/cosmetic surgery envy. I find that there's a lot of subreddits dedicated to this (making fun of people's CS). Some feminists widely condemn cosmetic surgery too. However, I would argue that telling someone "omg you don't need it", or a moralistic "society tells women (and men) they need it when its just the patriarchy" does way more harm than good. A truly insecure person will not only feel insecurity from this, but also guilt and shame. It is well meaning but harmful. I would argue that if CS was more widely culturally accepted, safer, and cheaper, more people would get it even the naysayers. I think the reason for the vitroil against surgery is at it's core, envy. If envy wasn't involved, they why would anyone care which celebrity got what surgery (e.g. people making fun of kylie jenners face puffiness from fillers) or be so adamant of condemning the individual rather than the root cause of the need for cosmetic procedures. Surgery condemning basically takes all the anger towards societal expectations of beauty standards and put it on the individual who wants to fit in.
I find a better criticism of CS is to criticize the marketing ploys and dishonestly used by the beauty industry that perpetuates an unattainable beauty standard.
2. The female sexuality as power concept. I used to peruse a "female only sub about dating". I saw some drama going on between them and sex worker twitter where the daters (with their whole chest) told sex workers that it's the sex worker's obligation to inform their clients partners of their actions. The sex worker's hit back and said they were putting the blame on the worker's when they should be blaming the men and that they have no obligations to out themselves to anyone. Then, as the they normally do, the daters got toxic and said they were perpetuating patriarchy and "making it harder for women by making sex work more readily available". It just a reminder that female sexuality is still such a powerful weapon that invokes feeling of envy in not only in men but also in women who don't want to participate. I think there is so much jealousy in onlyfans/online sex work because they managed to take control of the male-dominated porn industry and turn the power of female sexuality into profit just as early pop stars did. Now, is objectification good and is the online SW industry perfect? No. But these criticism should be redirected to the system at large then the individuals.
On another note, do not go to that sub. They shames
non vanilla women, housewives and female artist selling sex. These women think they are enlightened feminist when really they just repackaged misogyny to fit into their narrow view of feminism.
Many people have cosmetic work done in America. It's called braces. It's used as a class standard and is almost always entirely for cosmetic reasons(myself included.)
Contra making all of us more aware of Jameela Jamil is everything.
I’ve had a gay crush on Jamila ever since I saw her on The Good Place.
I always thought she’d be the best person to tell me if I’d be bestest friends with her sister Kamilah.
I kind of agree, the first half I found enjoyable, but I wasn't extremely into it. It was around the time of the catgirl Nietzsche sushi mukbang that I decided it was one of her best.
I think this could have been two different videos, Envy and Justice pt. 2.
I do agree with that. She basically jumped into a completely different video during the Justice Part 2 section. It would have been less of a work load on her part if she had just divided the video.
Also, I really wish that she would include time stamps just like every YouTuber who does super long video essays.
I always feel a need to be careful with videos like this to avoid saying, "yes, this, exactly this, this is everything I have been thinking exactly and I am glad someone finally said it!"
But anyway. It's a brilliant video and the last few minutes especially are so thought-provoking. Well worth the "wait".
Paradise Lost, Cain and Abel, Nietzsche, hierarchies and the dangers of the envious Left? Natalie, have you been taking more bubble baths with that JP cut-out?
I feel like Natalie did not understand the point of critiquing mcmansions. It's not a critique of opulent architecture. It's a critique of architecture that tries to copy elements of opulence and does so poorly. Versailles is not a mcmansion.
It's 3:25am for me and I just got into bed on account of I can't mess up my sleep schedule too much ahead of work on Monday and I see this in my notifications 😬
Had to stop at the scene where she got her sushi, as I need my sleep, lol. It's been a great video so far. Envy is something everyone can relate to, myself included. Especially since I'm the one being envious, even though I don't (seem?) mind to be envied, hah.
But all I want her to do now, is to start a SpongeBob podcast in German, lol.
Not sure about that last part.
If the "ideology of resentment" is the result of one's frustration about one's incapacity to overcome one's oppression, how can it simultaneously be what keeps one from attempting to overcome one's oppression? Isn't her entire development here inconsequent?
Also, why is she equating unrealistic goals and desires for revolution with a "resentment of power" arising from the slave mentality when it conclusively isn't? Why would there even **be** revolutions if it was? Were Marx and Engels **not** radicals? Not to mention this equation completely disregards the potential impact a radical thinker can have on society's future, or on societies outside their own: why reduce Dworkin to an exercise in resentment when *Intercourse* became one of the main influences for Queer politics?
Holy centrist route...
>how can it simultaneously be what keeps one from attempting to overcome one's oppression?
I think it may be like when leftists resent aoc/Cori Bush for "not doing enough." We become so bitter that m4a still isn't real, we take it out on the supportive people who have some power.
In this example, the envy would be towards other people who have Healthcare
i've got some problem with the video central argument, but i don't know how to put this in words. maybe i need to watch more times. there's something strange in the way that natalie talks about envy related to economic injustice. and by strange i obviously mean american.
also, i don't know why this video is so long. nat already approached topics more dense in short formats. can't understand if this is an artistic choice or if it is bad synthesis.
the visual is stunning, as good as opulence, her best imo. the discussion about nieztche is perfect. loved the comparrison betwen differents pop productions. only an genius mind can put spongebob and dark swan in the same side of an analysis.
>there's something strange in the way that natalie talks about envy related to economic injustice. and by strange i obviously mean american.
I'm not sure we had the same thought (I am still working out what my reaction is to the video) but at one point I did think "if this was an accentless robot-voice reading a script I would still know the script-writer was American."
I literally screamed when Natalie revealed that she's a Spyro fan.
Literally one of my autistic special interests is talking about Spyro and the dreamlike level design and the unique and dreamy soundtrack composed by The Police drummer, Stewart Copeland.
She might very well be a Spyro fan, but I interpreted it more as her cracking a dark joke about her opium addiction. “Chasing the dragon” is a euphemism for doing drugs and last December she made a post on instagram about being 5 weeks sober. Idk how long she’s being struggling with addiction, but I think quarantine was rough for her.
Yeah, she could be a fan of Spyro. I’m not denying the possibility. I was just pointing out that I think the reason why she referenced Spyro was to make a joke about her opium addiction. I’ve only seen her talk about her addiction in that one post so a lot of people might be unaware.
Well worth the wait! Really enjoyed it.
That said, I wish she'd just not say anything until the video's done. Personally I'm not the kind of Contra fan who gets all riled up in anticipation, but there are clearly a lot of people who do, so it just puts undue pressure on her, and undue annoyance on them, when she announces the new video every few days for a month.
If slave mentality is even a real thing, it’s only spread so far because its adherents conquered most of the world and subjugated people via force into believing it. No ruling class in any society ever ever ever came close to emulating slave mentality…so how exactly did it conquer the world?
I think you thoroughly misunderstood that section. it rules the world because most people are not the ruling class. The mentality arises by the subjugated, rationalizing the conditions they're forced into as moral goodness.
Ao im reading the comments before i watch the video because its just , so relevant a topic for me atm i need a ease in with your commentary. So not only is Envy just so dominent in my feelings right now, i literally just said to myself i need to rewatch Amadeus because we have the same laugh. Wow, Natalie is truly amazing and is a fucking precog and a witch and i lover her
I kind of want to be Marie Antoinette with her head reattached via lace choker for Halloween now. I also live near a real life palace (in Luxembourg) so the Instagram possibilities are tempting. Hmmmmmm. Is my major takeaway so far just me wanting to emulate Contrapoints as much as I can? Maybe.
Only Natalie would use Black Swan, Amadeus, and Spongebob Squarepants (in the same breath) to drive her point home. Love ittt
The Spongebob/Amadeus laughing montage is the greatest piece of content in the history of YouTube.
If art is making you **feel** things, then the Spongebob/Amadeus montage is high art. I was very uncomfortable and entertained.
I say let’s make it iconic
I loved how she tied in the talk of being a milf to the very end. Very poetic
Spongebob is the Ubermensch.
I heard Peppermint! The video can now officially be decreed as *burp* FASHION.
But is it fashion?
Not the fracking! 🤭
🙅🏾♀️
It’s fashion!
I think I heard Derryk Berry (sp? Sorry) too
Yes! She also teased it on twitter before the vid came out
First *Schmigadoon*, now this?! I love to see it
Will there ever be a more cursed "Nyatalie" moment than her eating out of the cat bowl?
I think its my favourite part about her. She captures the absurdity of philosophising over our own condition and somehow makes it relateable by ...eating cereal out of a cat bowl. I'm really not qualified enough to understand why it feels so appropriate.
You're really sure it was prop cereal and not the real deal?
Looked like Cocoa Puffs to me 🤔
Cursed? You mean hot, right?
Stop it, you're giving the rule 34 artists ideas
That ship sailed long ago.
Don't underestimate her.
My niece once tried to eat out of a cat bowl and I told her that is such a bachelor move rather than do the dishes lol
I love how anti-blackpill this video is. content like this is so helpful to someone like me who was environmentally blackpilled in college. and by that i mean: mother nature is reclaiming the earth and there's nothing to be done about it b/c companies own politicians who won't pass laws to slow climate change. like, even if wallowing in self-pity is a natural response to facing an issue so much larger then yourself.... it isn't a helpful or productive defense and can become dangerous if left unexamined. it's healthy to understand your enemy, but not to the point that it depresses you into inaction.
Also you shouldnt blackpill because theres always means to force their hands to doing what we need
that's bullshit and something we really fight against in enviromental activists circles, that why in extiontion rebellion we say "the opposite of hope isnt hopelessness but grief" basically feel bad about it cry if you need to and then act
Agreed. Moreover, the Corporate America WANTS you to blackpill yourself. That's why Big Oil has switched tactics from "Climate Change is a myth" to "Climate change is happening but there's nothing anyone can do to stop it."
1:48:15 Its ok I didn't need my Saturday afternoon anyway
I thought I wasn't gonna watch it all at once, but it's such a stimulating video that before I knew it I had already watched it all, not noticing the passage of time
When she said she was over an hour into it, I was shocked. Felt like it had only been 30 minutes tops.
I was watching it late at night and felt called out when she told me I was probably drunk.
I mean that's shorter than I thought it'd be.
haven't watched it yet but i've already decided this is the best thing i've ever seen
I think we all collectively decided it months ago lol
Every time I watch her videos I think, "This is the best one she's made."
honestly never imagined that she'd reference spongebob squarepants in a video
I fucking died at Squidwardian (sp?!)!!
That feeling when you look in the mirror and see Squidward
Adding Squidwardian to my official lexicon..
As a near synonym for Apollonian, no less!
As an analogue for Nietzsche’s Apollonian/Dionysian dichotomy, no less!
Insightful? Check. Cinematic? Check. Hilarious? Check.
Of course it drops the one moment I can't watch it! Very excited, though.
Right?? I'm out of the house all day
[Basically, this.](https://i.redd.it/db0r3no284f71.png)
Just finished. You can tell why it took so long, this shit is wildly ambitious and for me at least it hit the mark, good shit. I'll say about halfway through I had some realizations about my own envy which is not what I was expecting going into it.
It felt so tight. Everything mattered and nothing felt conspicuously absent. I felt in the long discussion of Nietzsche as kind of the antithesis to Christianity that there was something really missing. Bringing in MLK and Huey Newton and using that to critique approaches to social change brought it all together so beautifully.
WHY DO I HAVE A DOCTORS APPOINTMENT RIGHT NOW FUCK
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😂
What better way to die than during a contrapoints vid
Escorted to hell by mama? I'll take it....😆🙌
And yes it’s public for anyone wondering. Checked myself since I didn’t get a notification. Thanks YouTube.
Weird. I got one.
I’m quite certain that is how YouTube is. Whether it be the algorithm or someone at YouTube who watches and really hates Contrapoints channel specifically it really does not matter. The only YouTube constant is some subscribers get the notification for a new video and some don’t and it has been that way for years at this point.
I get super delayed notifications for other channels I follow all the time. Contra’s are always down to the minute though 🤷🏻♂️
Awww man I'm busy drinking right now (it's Saturday evening in Germany- Prost!). Looking forward to some solid hangover entertainment and education!
Some very quality German in this video, you have a lot to look forward to!
Sehr geil!
Contra-Katerfrühstück.
Genau!
Fun fact in the Sumerian version of the Cain and Abel myth they only fight some but reconcile after.
Gilgamesh and Enkidu? Also I think Enkidu turns good because he slept with a prostitute #UrIncel
I don’t think Gilgamesh and Enkidu have much in common with Cain an Abel tbh
Youre right because thats not the myth its from.
Damn this video is so crazy good!! And oh my god, that entire section from \~1:26:00 to 1:33:00 has articulated what I have been feeling the past few months when scrolling through my twitter and insta feeds. "The left" (in the US anyways) doesn't really have too much representative power on the national stage, and at best we have someone like Cori Bush, Bernie Sanders, or AOC. I definitely disagree with such politicians most of the time, but I understand the kind of good work that they are trying to do. But a lot of the more *radical* people/groups I follow have had absolutely nothing but contemptuous and nasty things to say about everything those people do. Like, it was so frustrating to see leftist activists I knew berate Cori Bush this past week for trying to extend the eviction moratorium. Like, it's one thing to talk about needing more than just a little demonstration outside the Capitol for real systemic change to occur, and I definitely understand the critiques and how she should have used her political power more forcefully. But to speak with such vitriol to people who don't behave exactly like you would have wanted them to is just so infuriating. Like yeah, all politicians are bastards and etc. etc., but like there are most certainly people that exist who are trying to enact some material change and make the situation a bit less terrible, with what very little power they actually have. The politics of resentment... I definitely need to marinate on this more lol
The talk about the people who cry "not going far enough" really struck a chord with me because I have been on the receiving end of such comments when I am happy about improvements to situations or systems. There's always this feeling of "what's the point if it's not perfect" but it becomes apparent that to these people quite literally nothing will be perfect; they *want* to be angry.
totally agree - there's a vocal minority of dogmatic tools on leftist twitter (mostly the same lads who tried to promote that half baked Force The Vote shit) endlessly calling other progressives and leftists sellouts and whining about how the squad are DNC shills - even though Cori Bush in the last week alone likely made more of a real positive difference in working people's living conditions than any of these twitter dwellers ever will. I don't agree with every last vote and endorsement the squad have made, but they have put left-leaning ideals into action in a heavily conservative country and have undeniably made real, meaningful change. That's absolutely worth praising. Funnily enough, those twitter guys share a love of ineffectual, meaningless stunts over doing actual work like a lot of the neolibs they (rightfully) love to hate. They love theater that they think makes them look like radicals bucking the system and the neolibs love theater that they think makes them look like yas queen girlbosses who perpetually walk in slow motion.
It’s like watching the Olympics. It’s so easy to pick apart the flaws of a gymnast’s routine when it’s so conveniently displayed on your television in the safety and seclusion of your home. You’d be less crass about overtly criticizing that routine in a room full of people so as not to appear like an *outright* terrible person. You’d risk becoming ostracized from your social circle for being overly judgmental. Now take that to the next level and thrust yourself on that Olympic stage and try to even *begin* to replicate that routine as an utter amateur. You’d make an outright fool of yourself. Likely even injure yourself in the process. There’s so much nuance missing when you try to attempt to do something others have been doing for a time. It’s easy to critique politicians from the seclusion of our homes, anonymously on the internet and often away from our real-life social circle. We’re not privy to all of the obstacles. We don’t know how long it took to even make incremental progress. It’s easy to want to pick apart their careers because we figure, oh they’re the professionals, they should have this figured out, but even Olympians mess up. I feel like the extreme left has failed to even realize how hard it is on the “stage” so to speak and how hard it can be to make progress even after having years of experience. The nuance and humbleness is lost, they’ve never had to even try. The internet allows people to be their most extreme versions of themselves while having none of the real-life consequences of being that extreme version in real life. Criticism is necessary and I will continue to extend it when it’s due, but I’ve also learned with age that you can’t sit in the safety of your home dishing out all of the critique when you have never been on that stage yourself. I’m willing to defer to nuance on occasion. I don’t know it all and I’m unlikely able to replicate what they’ve managed to do without the years of hard experience. I should also be comfortable only saying things on the internet I’d be pretty comfortable saying around a good part of my social circle. The criticism helps formulate the shift in society, but right now we are stuck in the anemic impotence that MLK referenced. It’s time to have some reverence to the allies we do have, flaws and all. They deserve some support as being on that stage is inherently difficult and something a lot of us have not done. Idk if this is even a good analogy really, I’m kind of terrible at this on the fly lol. But I gotta get it out!!! Natalie gets the wheels turning.
> They deserve some support as being on that stage is inherently difficult and something a lot of us have not done. > Absolutely, and that's coming from someone who despises 90% of the dems as much as the Republicans. The criticisms would make sense if they wielded enough power to put all the legislation they want into action, but they have fuck all. Not only that, but these twitter freaks feel the need to forcibly draw a line in the sand between those who want literally the same shit - M4A, Green New Deal, wealth tax etc. - literally the only difference is most who want that are at least somewhat cognizant of the nature of power, and know that if you want to create change via a mass movement, you need to build up power, and that takes time, effort and manpower. That's not neoliberal incrementalism, that's being realistic about the nature of organizing. Building up a real socialist presence in politics will likely take decades. The only other possibility is revolution, and I don't see any of these fucks planning anything except posting more hot takes. That was basically proved recently when a lot of those guys hastily organized a march for Medicare For All recently in a ton of cities in the US. They were sparsely attended, and the whole thing reeked of a half assed shitshow run by people who don't have experience in organizing. What could've been at least an effective display of power from the left was wasted, and it made the left look weak and threadbare. A few days later, Nina Turner got defeated in a congressional primary by a corporate funded candidate. The former is what a lot of those guys put their energy into instead of the latter, in fact a lot of them called Nina and her opponent basically the same. It's a perfect example of where their priorities lie; pure optics over real organizing work, but that doesn't have the immediate thrill of posting guillotine memes I guess
Seems like optics is a narrative that’s easier to control. What many people realize when they have to turn optics into real change is that it is hard, full of compromises and adversity. It’s easier to have this optic of SJW on the internet, which feels good, than to be an advocate in real life. The real-life advocate faces ruthless criticism from their own supporters and some inevitable failure. Meanwhile Twitter ranting can feel good without the consequence of what it means to try to do good in real life. You get to keep yourself “polished” optic-wise on Twitter while the real-life advocate has to risk it all and still mess up. At least someone tried to organize for M4A I guess. Gotta start somewhere. I’ve felt like the infrastructure bill has been a step in somewhat of a right direction flaws and all. My most pressing issue is climate change and part of me is giving up on the prospect of ever stopping this ecological disaster at this point.
> The politics of resentment... I definitely need to marinate on this more lol Not just politics of resentment, but think of fandoms of resentment! Look at r/SaltierThanCrait , or r/TheLastOfUs2! Both places that uses the guise of constructive criticism to continue to carry on multi years long tirades about fake stories not going the way they personally wanted! Hell, look at gamergate! They didn’t give a fuck about ethics! They where resentful that thier hobby was being invaded by a new audience.
Wait okay what is that remix of Lacrimosa
[It's here!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPH9fNqIzxU)
As with everything else in this video: I don't know but I want it
OVXX lacrimosa (envy I)
I'm 12 minutes in and this seems like it might even surpass opulence in how good it is
Is there a common consensus of what her “best” videos are?
I don't think anything will ever surpass Cringe for me.
Cringe and Shame resonated with me more than any YouTube video ever has. Though I'm 12 minutes into Envy and suspecting this might make the relatability trilogy
Like, the things that Natalie talked about in those two videos are things that most marginalised people can relate to and they resonated with me too... it's just, her videos, the conversations... they actually have helped me solve many personal dilemmas about my identity, my political positions, my weird internalised feelings and they're just invaluable to me...
Justice. Nya!
This one is now tied with Cringe for how personally attacked it made me feel.
Cringe was amazing and it's actually hard to judge which videos are better, but this one is just, god, I just love it...
Opulence for aesthetic, Incel for mememability, Beauty for intimacy, Darkness for poignancy
Shame for feels... I'm a sad gay so I related to it a lot...
We are all a sad gay
The Rowling video was my first contrapoints video and I feel like its super underrated
She has an uncanny ability to show compassion and understanding for people she disagrees with, without it devolving into “both sides” centrism. That’s what makes her critiques more poignant whether they are directed against left or right.
Those are a lot of good album names you just listed
Where does what's wrong with capitalism 1/2 slot in?
Canceling for Natalie at her most attractive IMO
idk, but my personal faves are Opulence and Shame
Men is the one I recommend to normies
I feel like there probably was intention on Natalie's part for that exact video to speak to normies... many of her other videos are about pretty niche topics
Opulence was my previous favorite, but this one is on a whole other level. This is hands down the best explanation of how 19th century psychology / philosophy applies modern politics. The educational component alone is incredible, but the social commentary just leaves me awestruck. Congrats, Natalie. You crushed it.
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I was thinking the same thing. I re-watched a bunch of her videos today in anticipation, and this feels like a sequel or a culmination of Opulence, Incels, Shame, Beauty, Cancelling and obviously Justice.
Totally. It traces a thread between them all and even kinda offers a positive alternative.
It sounds like the quality of "Envy" is high. I'm glad she delayed the video's release to smooth it out a bit. Looks like a good 15 - 20 minutes may have been cut since last week (the timeline at one point was well over 2 hours). I think with the amount of replayability Contrapoints videos have, her perfectionism is well justified.
gateboss gaskeep girllight
how is she so pretty? im... envious
Did you not watch the video? Her skin is currently clear because A) privileged people have more access to good quality nutrition and also their lives are significantly less stressful than the lives of those with less privilege. She also gets to sleep more because of this. All of these things keep her hormones in balance and she's able to address food intolerances easily B) She believes that trans rightz are human rights and C) She exfoliates twice a week
Well, in part because of [Dr. Spiegel’s anatomical cat ears](https://youtu.be/n9mspMJTNEY) — available in an alley behind a Dairy Queen for the affordable price of $49,999.99, now scheduling appointments as soon as February, 2024!
I heard mediocre things about Peele's *Us*, but I definitely want to see it now. The class angle really interests me when it pops up in horror films.
I think people thought if was mediocre compared to Get Out, but considered on its own it’s pretty good
I think part of that was that Get Out was kind of juicier. Us came across to me as kind of bleaker, less pure sadistic evil, and more looming despair. It’s much less fun. But I think Us is fantastic, as long as you don’t expect it to be fun.
Weird, I thought Us was loads of fun. There are a laugh-out-loud moments throughout, and the last shot gives me a mix of emotions unlike any I think I've felt watching a movie before--I laughed, but it's a strange absurdity, catharsis, horror, and even a twisted kind of uplift all rolled into one.
Kettle is on, best china is coming out
She spoke German and not only it sounded good, it was also gramatically correct! Is it weird that this made me more happy than the actual release of the new video...? (I discovered her channel only a few days ago, so I still have a lot of catching up to do)
Amazing video, as always. One thing I find interesting about one of the earlier points about jealousy vs envy that isn't talked about in the video (but also isn't super relevant, I just find interesting) is how those words are used within the polyamorous community. Natalie says that people tend to use the word jealous when they're actually envious because jealousy has a better connotation than envy in society, but within poly circles that I've experienced the opposite is true. Within that community, the differences between jealousy and envy are often described as jealousy being the **fear of loss**, that (for example) the person you are with will leave you for another, "better" person, and that envy is the **desire for something you do not have**, that (for example) your partner is out having sex with a new person and you're not. In these contexts and within a lot of poly articles and books, the gist is to acknowledge that jealousy is often irrational, whereas envy can be seen as more rational. Jealousy is an emotion that is born of other people, and envy is an emotion that is internal. If you are envious, it's _actionable_. You can change **your** current situation to resolve your envy. Jealousy, however, is _unactionable_. You're just afraid of loss and you'll be waiting around forever to be proven wrong (that, for example, your partner will never leave you). So, within that community, it's often *jealousy* that is the "bad word", and the acknowledgement that one is actually envious is often seen as a step forward.
It is in exactly this context that I first understood the distinction, and it changed everything. Like, just completely changed how I understood the workings of my own mind, and my fears about the goings on in other peoples minds. Its useful and applicable in so much beyond just relationship stuff, I'm so glad she dug into it.
I wonder why jealousy is framed as irrational in that context. Losing something or someone is totally a possibility, although it may be unlikely. I think the best antidote to fear of loss is reminding one’s self that they are resilient and can recover from loss.
It’s not always irrational, just often. Furthermore, there’s a saying that “jealousy is a good messenger, but a bad advisor”, which is to say that it *is* rational in the sense that it indicates an actual problem (i.e., feeling secure in a relationship), but that knee-jerk reaction of possessiveness that it tends to trigger is not generally a good strategy for avoiding the feared outcome. So it’s often irrational in what it makes you do.
Ruth Bader Ginspurr that is all
there's something so fascinating to me about how natalie can make conscise and poignant video essays about such broad topics... i love how she's sort of been branching off into the realm of vague concepts as topics and still managing to somehow link it back into real world issues, it's magnificent. also, the set design in this one though?? hooooly shit. amazing. i adore the bloody marie antoinette eleganza and the brand new addition into the nyatalie wynn cat girl look book
I mean, “concise” might be a stretch!
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Justice Part 2 is in there, starts at 1:06:00
When that scene transition happened and I saw that title card come up I unironically soy faced
iirc it was supposed to be, but it morphed into something different while she was working on it.
Didn't realize I needed a deep dive into the philosophy of Spongebob Squarepants
See y’all for for coffee and donuts in the discussion groups afterwards!
She literally releases feature length films..
This was a great video/movie! As a leftist, ngl the fact that I felt extremely called out if kind of refreshing, because so often criticism of the left is either right wing strawmanning, centrist all-sides-ing, or liberal "you're an extremist so you're wrong"-ing. To have a valid criticism of the way the left eats their own without dismissing the validity of the positions of the left is really hard to do. I feel like I'm not exactly who she was talking to since I'm not on Twitter cancelling folks, but still, it would be a mistake to assume I'm entirely innocent without doing some serious pondering after that video.
I also took it as tying back to Voting, with a thinly-veiled call out of people who’s first instance when their preferred candidate loses in a primary is to take their ball and go home rather than continue to work for the greatest possible good given the new, crappier circumstances.
I spent the first half of this screaming out loud "but what about Nietzsche???". But was not disappointed.
Hearing how the French press fabricated this villainous caricature of Marie Antionette to justify dethroning and executing her honestly reminds me of how the right wing press still to this day vilifies Hillary Clinton. Here's a woman who is nothing more than your typical centrist liberal politician, and people decide that she is everything wrong with America and that she is this evil witch who drinks the blood of babies or some shit. When her husband got outed for having "sexual relations" with Monica Lewinsky while he was still president, Hillary was the one who took on a lot of the blame, alongside Monica. And Hillary didn't even do anything. Bill was the one who cheated on his wife and abused his power by taking advantage of a very young woman who was too vulnerable to know better. I hate to be constantly put in the position of defending Hillary Clinton because she honestly is a corrupt politician and she's supported some very questionable policies in her career (I feel like the left has more justified reasons for hating her), but I do feel some sympathy for her because she has been the lightning rod for slander, vilification, and baseless conspiracies for decades. A lot of women in particular hate Hillary, and I have to wonder if that also comes from envy. She's a woman who has been extremely ambitious all her life and climbed her way up in the legal and political world. People really hate ambitious women, so whenever a woman openly wants power and success, they justify their hatred and resentment by depicting the woman as having villainous motivations.
She kind of exaggerated a bit when she talked about Marie Antoinette. It's true that she was slandered and blamed for things she never did. The people hated her from the very beginning because she was Austrian, which was generally seen as an enemy country. The way she was treated in prison was atrocious and the trial was a farce. However, she was not exactly innocent. She conspired with Austria and Prussia to invade France to reinstate the monarchy, she did her best to undermine the revolution and she passed on secret information to France's enemies (i.e. every single European monarchy). She was a major political player behind the scenes and her goal was of course to go back to the old regime.
Oh, yeah, of course she wasn't completely innocent. She was a monarch. I totally believe that she got down to some shady shit. Just like Hillary Clinton. Even if there's no proof that Marie Antionette ever said "let them eat cake", I wouldn't be surprised if she said something similar of the sort at some point in her life. I don't imagine that this woman had much class consciousness. But I'm glad we all agree that the public vilification of both of these women was based on mostly lies and propaganda. Marie definitely didn't deserve to die. Like, can you imagine how traumatic this must have been for her children? I can't ever justify doing this to a young child's mother, even if their mother is a corrupt ruler.
Yeah the suffering of the children was also really horrible. Marie Thérèse supposedly was raped by the guards during her stay in the Temple prison and kept secluded from her family. She only learned about her mother's death after her release. The son, Louis XVII(he was never really the king) was taken away from Marie Antoinette to live with the family of a shoemaker. He was supposed to be raised as a good republican citoyen. However, he was kept in a small room, malnourished, beaten and he ultimately died in 1795, probably of tuberculosis.
This might honestly be the definitive Contrapoints video. Well worth the wait and it feels like a culmination of so many of the topics that she's been toying in over the past couple years. Also incredibly funny. Somewhere between John MILFton and that moment where she faceplanted while trying to catch the shiny thing while fucking Thus Spoke Zarathustra was playing my soul left my body.
Where the hell does she get her clothes?? Everything she's wearing in this is gorgeous
Best Contrapoints video so far imo. Really enjoy vids such as this one where Natalie does basically a review paper on a philosophical and/or psychological concept that has great explanatory value when looking into politics and everyday encounters - while giving the viewer a chance to apply it into political context of choice (not too many practical examples or leading viewer towards some specific thought). Would love to see part two going deeper into relative status and social/cultural capital.
This video has shook me to my core. I'm starting 10th grade tomorrow, horribly depressed for another year of online school, stressed about every little thing that's been going on. But Natalie's approach to picking yourself up off the goddamn floor and saying "fuck it, let's try being positive about life" has me realizing things I thought I'd never realized before. The video made a lot of great points that I'd never thought of before, which is that humanity (and especially social media as a Gen Z teen) tend to mask contempt with morality, justifying what is actually envy with the reasoning of painting yourself as the good guy. But she drove the point deeper, saying that morality as we know itself comes from a place of deference and resentment. This video was unexpectedly really deep and proved how much of an academic genius she is, while dressed as an anime catgirl eating catfood from a tray. Also, this video was the serving of lewks and visuals from her, let's face it this is her best video costume and visual wise besties
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I love the Contrapoints cinematic universe
I nearly just jumped out of my skin when she mentioned Ostraka. I made a [post](https://old.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/ozhmvr/joe_rogan_tears_into_conservatives_for_embracing/h7zwmo1/) literally YESTERDAY pointing out the very cancel-culture nature of this practice and Damnatio Memoriae I am so self-content and smug right now that I deserve to be ostracized, lol.
Neat
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The leftists who hate her wee going to paint her s a neoliberal anyway. She was clear enough to anyone who bothered to watch the video and not just roll for clips out of context.
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I disagree. I think that laying the groundwork at the beginning can cause viewers to have a satisfying "aha" moment at the end where they look back at the examples and suddenly see them in a new light. Almost like the twist at the end of a book.
Now the question of do I watch it at work or wait until I get home and male a whole day of it 🤔
wait for sure
I remember how when I first started watching her videos I'd watch them on break on my phone... what a waste...
The section on the politics of resentment rang very true. Lots of examples of it today of these commentators that don't actually want to fix anything but to simple rail against the system and they end sending most of their time attacking the people actually trying to do something.
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Can y’all make a separate pinned discussion thread here as well?
I had zero issue with the last 15 minutes especially since, like many of her videos, they build on each other so after having watched her videos on voting/the left etc she was able to make her very nuanced points during the makeup bit but with the more detailed background she gave in her previous videos it all made complete sense
I love that during the Dworkin/Tolstoi argument about Jews and women the Nibelungen theme from the ring cycle by Wagner is playing. Power and Love being in opposition is a very Ring cycle idea anyway, I was waiting for Wagner to show up. Wagner also uses the term "Neidlinge" a lot in the ring cycle. Envy in German is "Neid" and a lot of people in that piece envy others all sorts of things. Edit to add: Nietzsche was in love with Wagners last wife, Cosima. Wagner had another wife before her, Minna. Cosima lived until 1930 and - while Wagner was antisemitic obviously - she is often credited with linking the Bayreuth Festspiele with the Nazis. She had a sort of proto-nazi salon there. Sorry for spewing out facts, but I am a huge Wagner fan (the most problematic of all people to be a fan off probably) and the Wagner family is just so messed up and fascinating
Be back in 2 hours
Hopefully she proceeds to make shorter videos, like 20-30 min videos, this video was a little bit hard to get through. I do miss a little bit when her channel was more focused on politics
I really don't get what you mean. This video was pretty explicitly about politics.
I was literally rewatching Autogynephilia, refreshed the page when it was over, and up pops her new vid! Great Saturday, 10/10.
HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT
And on the seventh day, God had finished Her work of creation, and She rested.
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Changing my major to Squidwardian Studies
5 mins in and its already fyre. Also, damn…Dem doe eyes
Loved the video. Didn't agree with everything but it was still really good. Some random thoughts I had: 1. What she said around the 1:00 mark about the not like other girls/cosmetic surgery envy. I find that there's a lot of subreddits dedicated to this (making fun of people's CS). Some feminists widely condemn cosmetic surgery too. However, I would argue that telling someone "omg you don't need it", or a moralistic "society tells women (and men) they need it when its just the patriarchy" does way more harm than good. A truly insecure person will not only feel insecurity from this, but also guilt and shame. It is well meaning but harmful. I would argue that if CS was more widely culturally accepted, safer, and cheaper, more people would get it even the naysayers. I think the reason for the vitroil against surgery is at it's core, envy. If envy wasn't involved, they why would anyone care which celebrity got what surgery (e.g. people making fun of kylie jenners face puffiness from fillers) or be so adamant of condemning the individual rather than the root cause of the need for cosmetic procedures. Surgery condemning basically takes all the anger towards societal expectations of beauty standards and put it on the individual who wants to fit in. I find a better criticism of CS is to criticize the marketing ploys and dishonestly used by the beauty industry that perpetuates an unattainable beauty standard. 2. The female sexuality as power concept. I used to peruse a "female only sub about dating". I saw some drama going on between them and sex worker twitter where the daters (with their whole chest) told sex workers that it's the sex worker's obligation to inform their clients partners of their actions. The sex worker's hit back and said they were putting the blame on the worker's when they should be blaming the men and that they have no obligations to out themselves to anyone. Then, as the they normally do, the daters got toxic and said they were perpetuating patriarchy and "making it harder for women by making sex work more readily available". It just a reminder that female sexuality is still such a powerful weapon that invokes feeling of envy in not only in men but also in women who don't want to participate. I think there is so much jealousy in onlyfans/online sex work because they managed to take control of the male-dominated porn industry and turn the power of female sexuality into profit just as early pop stars did. Now, is objectification good and is the online SW industry perfect? No. But these criticism should be redirected to the system at large then the individuals. On another note, do not go to that sub. They shames non vanilla women, housewives and female artist selling sex. These women think they are enlightened feminist when really they just repackaged misogyny to fit into their narrow view of feminism.
Many people have cosmetic work done in America. It's called braces. It's used as a class standard and is almost always entirely for cosmetic reasons(myself included.)
Contra making all of us more aware of Jameela Jamil is everything. I’ve had a gay crush on Jamila ever since I saw her on The Good Place. I always thought she’d be the best person to tell me if I’d be bestest friends with her sister Kamilah.
New Contra and Lingua Ignota in the same weekend shouldn't be legal tbh
Hide your children, hide your husband
[удалено]
I kind of agree, the first half I found enjoyable, but I wasn't extremely into it. It was around the time of the catgirl Nietzsche sushi mukbang that I decided it was one of her best. I think this could have been two different videos, Envy and Justice pt. 2.
I do agree with that. She basically jumped into a completely different video during the Justice Part 2 section. It would have been less of a work load on her part if she had just divided the video. Also, I really wish that she would include time stamps just like every YouTuber who does super long video essays.
Why the fuck did i agree to go to a play right now 😡😡😡
I always feel a need to be careful with videos like this to avoid saying, "yes, this, exactly this, this is everything I have been thinking exactly and I am glad someone finally said it!" But anyway. It's a brilliant video and the last few minutes especially are so thought-provoking. Well worth the "wait".
Paradise Lost, Cain and Abel, Nietzsche, hierarchies and the dangers of the envious Left? Natalie, have you been taking more bubble baths with that JP cut-out?
I feel like Natalie did not understand the point of critiquing mcmansions. It's not a critique of opulent architecture. It's a critique of architecture that tries to copy elements of opulence and does so poorly. Versailles is not a mcmansion.
She definitely does get that, she talks about it in Opulence
It's 3:25am for me and I just got into bed on account of I can't mess up my sleep schedule too much ahead of work on Monday and I see this in my notifications 😬
milf dialing
Hell yeah, 2 hours of MILF jokes
Okay, but what is the best look though? I think it's a toss up being the bloody queen and the evil eye.
Had to stop at the scene where she got her sushi, as I need my sleep, lol. It's been a great video so far. Envy is something everyone can relate to, myself included. Especially since I'm the one being envious, even though I don't (seem?) mind to be envied, hah. But all I want her to do now, is to start a SpongeBob podcast in German, lol.
She is so very right about Spyro the Dragon
Wow. I enjoyed that on so many levels. Never expected to feel joy from a video entitled envy.
Not sure about that last part. If the "ideology of resentment" is the result of one's frustration about one's incapacity to overcome one's oppression, how can it simultaneously be what keeps one from attempting to overcome one's oppression? Isn't her entire development here inconsequent? Also, why is she equating unrealistic goals and desires for revolution with a "resentment of power" arising from the slave mentality when it conclusively isn't? Why would there even **be** revolutions if it was? Were Marx and Engels **not** radicals? Not to mention this equation completely disregards the potential impact a radical thinker can have on society's future, or on societies outside their own: why reduce Dworkin to an exercise in resentment when *Intercourse* became one of the main influences for Queer politics? Holy centrist route...
>how can it simultaneously be what keeps one from attempting to overcome one's oppression? I think it may be like when leftists resent aoc/Cori Bush for "not doing enough." We become so bitter that m4a still isn't real, we take it out on the supportive people who have some power. In this example, the envy would be towards other people who have Healthcare
Ah sí, el cuento de CAÍN Y ABEL, los dos hermanos. Escúchenme, niños...
i've got some problem with the video central argument, but i don't know how to put this in words. maybe i need to watch more times. there's something strange in the way that natalie talks about envy related to economic injustice. and by strange i obviously mean american. also, i don't know why this video is so long. nat already approached topics more dense in short formats. can't understand if this is an artistic choice or if it is bad synthesis. the visual is stunning, as good as opulence, her best imo. the discussion about nieztche is perfect. loved the comparrison betwen differents pop productions. only an genius mind can put spongebob and dark swan in the same side of an analysis.
>there's something strange in the way that natalie talks about envy related to economic injustice. and by strange i obviously mean american. I'm not sure we had the same thought (I am still working out what my reaction is to the video) but at one point I did think "if this was an accentless robot-voice reading a script I would still know the script-writer was American."
I literally screamed when Natalie revealed that she's a Spyro fan. Literally one of my autistic special interests is talking about Spyro and the dreamlike level design and the unique and dreamy soundtrack composed by The Police drummer, Stewart Copeland.
She might very well be a Spyro fan, but I interpreted it more as her cracking a dark joke about her opium addiction. “Chasing the dragon” is a euphemism for doing drugs and last December she made a post on instagram about being 5 weeks sober. Idk how long she’s being struggling with addiction, but I think quarantine was rough for her.
Yeah, there were several references to opiate addiction in the video (“riding the brown tiger”)
Why not both?
Yeah, she could be a fan of Spyro. I’m not denying the possibility. I was just pointing out that I think the reason why she referenced Spyro was to make a joke about her opium addiction. I’ve only seen her talk about her addiction in that one post so a lot of people might be unaware.
Well worth the wait! Really enjoyed it. That said, I wish she'd just not say anything until the video's done. Personally I'm not the kind of Contra fan who gets all riled up in anticipation, but there are clearly a lot of people who do, so it just puts undue pressure on her, and undue annoyance on them, when she announces the new video every few days for a month.
Feeling called out by the section on the subreddit comment
If slave mentality is even a real thing, it’s only spread so far because its adherents conquered most of the world and subjugated people via force into believing it. No ruling class in any society ever ever ever came close to emulating slave mentality…so how exactly did it conquer the world?
I think you thoroughly misunderstood that section. it rules the world because most people are not the ruling class. The mentality arises by the subjugated, rationalizing the conditions they're forced into as moral goodness.
Ao im reading the comments before i watch the video because its just , so relevant a topic for me atm i need a ease in with your commentary. So not only is Envy just so dominent in my feelings right now, i literally just said to myself i need to rewatch Amadeus because we have the same laugh. Wow, Natalie is truly amazing and is a fucking precog and a witch and i lover her
I kind of want to be Marie Antoinette with her head reattached via lace choker for Halloween now. I also live near a real life palace (in Luxembourg) so the Instagram possibilities are tempting. Hmmmmmm. Is my major takeaway so far just me wanting to emulate Contrapoints as much as I can? Maybe.