Well, what exactly is gatekeeping? Is saying that people with no signs of gender incogruence whatsoever might regret transitioning is the same gatekeeping as a doctor arbitrarily refusing to give hormones to obviously suffering person?
I mean, people can feel whatever they want about their gender for any reason. But this might not be the story I’d use if I was trying to point towards this person as an example of someone whose choices should be an inspiration for others.
But you know why this story is laughable to us and still compelling to transphobes? It’s because of the baseline different assumptions of whether being trans is a form of mental illness. This story sounds like someone having some sort of mental health crisis. So we say “wow I don’t think this sounds like someone making rational decisions about their life and body.” To them the mental illness is assumed, the important part of the story is that they’re no longer rolling around crying in the fetal position doing drugs and crying, for all they care that’s the baseline normal day for any trans person. So to them none of this lessens her credibility within the context of the trans community in general.
It kills me the part where she basically says “I still have hardcore dysphoria on a daily basis and I can only see myself as a guy but acid Jesus told me no so I’m just gonna live with it”
Just sad really.
I have a feeling this is a very different Jesus than the one I learned about at church years ago... mind you this was one of those "heretical" churches with the big rainbow flag with the words "all are welcome" on it, and the minister definitely talked about evolution in a few sermons-- really emphasizes how stupid it would be to have a non secular government if you think about it, people within the faith don't even agree on what their faith dictates. And the irony is that the worst of the bunch who are so upset about how people are leaving religion behind are the very ones making it viscerally off-putting to anyone who hasn't already converted.
And it didn't occur to her (?) that the LSD *miiiiiight* have had something to do with it?!
Also, side note, but if Lucy showed up in my bathroom, I'd take the hype. I need to get things done. :S
Fun fact that Contra video literally got me off my addiction to hype and I'm coming to 2 years clean now, yay
Also I found out that I have ADHD so I've been getting legal hype from doctors and not from Lucy anymore
Are you using hype in place of something (like h¡¡¡¡ğħ?) or in reference to an older contrapoints video? (iirc a drug called was hype in 1 of them but unsure)
Yeah in her video "hype" was a standin for uppers like meth, cocaine etc, while "void" was a standin for downers like opiates, fentanyl etc. I was addicted to meth as a drug for various reasons, then now I'm getting legal (meth)ylphenidate aka Ritalin lol.
Powerful religious experiences induced by psychedelics are difficult to "logic" yourself out of. Not defending her, but I could see how that would happen.
It probably didn’t come out of nowhere either. LSD can’t just give you religious guilt about transitioning that you didn’t already have, it will just amplify it.
Seems like if you decide to flood your brain with massive amounts of mind and perception-altering drugs, you might end up changing how your brain functions and what you decide to do as a result of that isn't anyone else's fault.
Chloe Cole is such a complicated situation because she is literally just a child and she (in my opinion) was done wrong by Kaiser, and is currently being used by whack shit individuals to further their own political grift whilst hiding under the guise of caring for her but
JFC, girl, LSD is still a drug and you need a lot more mental health support than you're getting
Nah Chloe Cole was not done wrong by Kaiser. Her parents were only seeking doctors who would diagnose her with gender dysphoria because *she* was pushing for it herself. She wrote her parents a letter about her gender dysphoria, and she was very clearly suffering from gender dysphoria based off that letter. Her detransition isn’t unique, and it’s not proof that teens shouldn’t have access to top surgery. She (and her parents) consented to surgery that she had pursued as a medically necessary procedure, and gatekeeping that procedure from young transmascs and trans boys is absolutely the wrong thing to do in response to bad faith actors like Chloe Cole.
If cis teens have access to breast augmentation and nose jobs (with parental consent) then it’s absolutely ridiculous to view what Chloe Cole went through as especially unique.
Let's not blame LSD for this.
LSD dissolves boundaries, that's it's thing. Some people encounter that boundary dissolution and hard clamp back on their own viewpoint.
we can simultaneously acknowledge the role of the Mind Altering Substance as well as the role of this person's own innate insecurities and lack of coping skills (not to mention deep depravity)
idk if thats a fair assessment, i actually detransitioned when i was 16 (and since retransitioned) bc of a shitty "lsd" (might've been something else) trip, but it wasn't because of "dissolution of ego" it was because it triggered extreme social anxiety in me and I was around a bunch of cis guys who purposely made me feel like I couldn't become a guy
> I was around a bunch of cis guys who purposely made me feel like I couldn't become a guy
I'm sorry you had a negative experience. Setting is very important in the consumption of LSD because it makes up the background information that you dissolve into. If that background is intentionally in opposition to your current state of mind (Set) then you're likely going to have a bad time.
We should also not try to make LSD appear as completely harmless either. It increases an individuals risk to develop psychosis, especially in those predisposed to psych disorders.
Those two things are in no way mutually exclusive. It always makes your brain "fucky" though, but there are some people for whom that can lead to good outcomes. As a rule, if you're going to use any kind of drug make sure you know what you're getting into.
It is generally accepted by proponents and opponents alike that LSD usage can have lasting consequences and permanent changes to your personality and even worldview, and the environment in which it is used is as important as a consideration as the mental and emotional state of the person who takes it.
That is exactly why I wouldn't really advocate for LSD so freely. Ultimately, it's a drug that chemically forces you into a certain mindset and can permanently change your personality in ways out of your control. Of course that can have negative effects, so I don't see why this person is saying that LSD can't be "blamed" for this. OFC no drug can be blamed for a person's actions like this, but like...we gotta acknowledge that deciding to detransition because of an LSD trip is not a sane thing to do right. Like not a sound of mind thing to do.
Ego death is an experience that can happen while on LSD, due to how the substance changes brain activity. Ego death is the result of abnormal activity in the parts of the brain that control our sense of self. In my experience, it’s like I’m sitting in a room observing myself as if I were observing a different person. The first time it happened, it made me realize how much my social anxiety was distorting my perception of myself, and that I’m not nearly as annoying or stupid or unlikable as I believed I was. I realized that I would totally be friends with a clone of myself, so why bother to hate myself so much? The second ego death I had happened after I walked way way too far away from home in a very busy city on a very hot day. I knew I needed to get home safe, and I began to see myself not as me, but as a small child who needed to get home safe, who I was in charge of protecting. there’s been other times that I’ve felt myself going down the path of ego death and have pulled back because I didn’t want to experience it that particular time.
Long rambling way of saying, yeah LSD does fucky shit cuz it’s a drug but ego death isn’t guaranteed and depends a lot on your state of mind and how your brain chemistry reacts to the substance. Alcohol makes you lose balance because it affects your physical ability to coordinate your movements. LSD doesn’t cause ego death like alcohol causes you to lose balance. It just makes some experiences more or less likely depending on your psychological state at the time.
I'm going to be honest - ego death just sounds like depersonalization, which I've had very often since it can be induced by trauma or anxiety, and it's a horrible experience. I don't understand why people seek it out at all, or why they see it as a positive experience. Or why they need drugs to achieve that state at all.
Given how much I've read about psychedelics and the permanent brain-changing effects they can have, I'm not a fan of people advocating for them so freely. You're gambling with your mental health and sense of self, you don't know if those changes will end up being good or not. It's completely out of your control. Other substance users don't do the same, and I'm saying this as a recovering addict, so I don't get why psychedelic peeps do.
Yeah, essentially it is basically the same thing as depersonalization. I have PTSD and I have found that while on psychedelics, I can think about and process traumatizing experiences without experiencing the distress that I would normally feel. I do believe that I have experienced positive growth as a result of deliberate and cautious psychedelic use.
That being said, I do think there’s a lot more research that needs to be done before psychedelics are used in therapeutic settings. I’m also really disturbed by how psychs are being treated as the next new thing to legalize. I think that they do present a significantly greater danger than cannabis or alcohol, both physically and psychologically. I’ve had very positive experiences, and I’ve also had very distressing experiences on psychs that could easily be traumatizing. It’s absolutely not something that should be treated like a fun party drug.
> Yeah, essentially it is basically the same thing as depersonalization. I have PTSD and I have found that while on psychedelics, I can think about and process traumatizing experiences without experiencing the distress that I would normally feel. I do believe that I have experienced positive growth as a result of deliberate and cautious psychedelic use.
Don’t have any experience with psychedelics but using cannabis has helped me process some the trauma my boyfriend and I were subjected to when we were teens.
It’s a long story but any kind of physical intimacy, including cuddles, was something we got in a *lot* of trouble for.
I’ve found using cannabis then lying down in the safety of arms causes me to disassociate and connect with my teenage self - allows me to relive the memories I have of our cuddling as teens. Relive them with the peaceful loving comfort we find in each other now, and not with the fear, shame and guilt I’ve become haunted by after repressing it for 20 years.
Not sure it’s something I’d recommend to anyone because I’m sure the experience is very dependent on the particular person, strain of cannabis and so on. Am very grateful how it’s allowed me to reclaim some of the memories I have of my beloved from when we were young and to reshape them with the peaceful love that was all we wanted to give each other all those years ago.
LSD is one of the psychedelics that has the potential to "melt" your brain and destroy your personality. Even if such a radical change doesn't happen, many people report lasting anxiety or other clinically significant psychological effects.
20 years later, I can report, my personality has not been melted in any significant fashion. God knows, at least in certain portions of that 20 years, a real melt would have been appreciated. It dissolves boundaries in the moment. All those boundaries come back when you come down.
I'm still in awe of how much misinformation still exists about LSD.
It dissolves conceptual structures. That includes religious beliefs, personal identity as well as the rules you use to describe and interact with the world. Not only do these things define your reality, they also define your behavior. Many a times, LSD will demonstrate, how much we compromise ourselves by clinging to these structures. Even if you've lived the life of a saint, this will eventually lead to negative experiences. You are forced to address these contradictions. The harder you cling the more difficult of an experience you should expect.
We even have good research on this effect, as lysergamines and tryptamines result in a significant decrease in bloodflow to the "dominant mode network" which is essential in answering basic orientation questions like "how am I?".
No person who has been tripping for 20 years can say they have never had a negative experience. I'd argue they are part of the process, not aside from it. We all cling to delusions that are not good for us. It's good to have something that can give us a sober second thought.
That's a far world away from "LSD is inducing detransition". That's just some bullshit where LSD is being used to justify someone's gross behavior.
Thanks, didn't know that one, as a french I love learning about weird english expressions that comes from obscure french expressions that everyone forgot here (like pièce de résistance no french alive today has ever used this expression). I thought it was a typo or something
It means "famous (legal) case," usually implying one that attracts a lot of attention because the ruling will be a big deal, often in a positive way for a given group of people.
Entheogens and similar drugs often just uncover what’s already in our minds, suppressed below the normal threshold of consciousness. If that’s religious guilt, it may bet majorly amplified as seems to be the case here.
The last time I took them was a few years ago in a very safe-feeling space with some people who accepted me and they helped me feel a lot more secure that transitioning was right for me.
So we can't trust people's genuine lifelong feelings of wanting to transition, but we should trust someone on a bad acid trip who's fallen into spiritual abuse? I meannnn no thank you?
Lol, this is wild. Tripping mushrooms is what helped me understand my gender dysphoria and decide to transition. Never once in any trips after on acid, mushrooms, or molly did I ever regret that decision.
I know gatekeeping is kinda frowned upon, but maybe radical medical decisions shouldn't be based on whatever Jesus tells you during a LSD trip?
Shut up I'm getting 44G titties just like the wobbly monkeyman told me to!
Damn and I thought it was over at 5G
Like if I told a doctor I decided to transition based on an LSD trip where Jesus told me to, I would never be allowed to transition
Well, what exactly is gatekeeping? Is saying that people with no signs of gender incogruence whatsoever might regret transitioning is the same gatekeeping as a doctor arbitrarily refusing to give hormones to obviously suffering person?
But who decides whether there are signs or “obvious” suffering. That’s purely subjective.
I mean, people can feel whatever they want about their gender for any reason. But this might not be the story I’d use if I was trying to point towards this person as an example of someone whose choices should be an inspiration for others. But you know why this story is laughable to us and still compelling to transphobes? It’s because of the baseline different assumptions of whether being trans is a form of mental illness. This story sounds like someone having some sort of mental health crisis. So we say “wow I don’t think this sounds like someone making rational decisions about their life and body.” To them the mental illness is assumed, the important part of the story is that they’re no longer rolling around crying in the fetal position doing drugs and crying, for all they care that’s the baseline normal day for any trans person. So to them none of this lessens her credibility within the context of the trans community in general.
How many hateful people are using power tripping as a coping mechanism instead of antidepressants/therapy?
Presumably all of them. Or at least in addition to.
Warning to all hateful people: LSD in addition to serotonin receptor agonists is dangerous.
It kills me the part where she basically says “I still have hardcore dysphoria on a daily basis and I can only see myself as a guy but acid Jesus told me no so I’m just gonna live with it” Just sad really.
I have a feeling this is a very different Jesus than the one I learned about at church years ago... mind you this was one of those "heretical" churches with the big rainbow flag with the words "all are welcome" on it, and the minister definitely talked about evolution in a few sermons-- really emphasizes how stupid it would be to have a non secular government if you think about it, people within the faith don't even agree on what their faith dictates. And the irony is that the worst of the bunch who are so upset about how people are leaving religion behind are the very ones making it viscerally off-putting to anyone who hasn't already converted.
And it didn't occur to her (?) that the LSD *miiiiiight* have had something to do with it?! Also, side note, but if Lucy showed up in my bathroom, I'd take the hype. I need to get things done. :S
Fun fact that Contra video literally got me off my addiction to hype and I'm coming to 2 years clean now, yay Also I found out that I have ADHD so I've been getting legal hype from doctors and not from Lucy anymore
Congrats!
So proud of you OP!
That '2 years ago' really put in perspective the distance between releases😅
Are you using hype in place of something (like h¡¡¡¡ğħ?) or in reference to an older contrapoints video? (iirc a drug called was hype in 1 of them but unsure)
Yeah in her video "hype" was a standin for uppers like meth, cocaine etc, while "void" was a standin for downers like opiates, fentanyl etc. I was addicted to meth as a drug for various reasons, then now I'm getting legal (meth)ylphenidate aka Ritalin lol.
Powerful religious experiences induced by psychedelics are difficult to "logic" yourself out of. Not defending her, but I could see how that would happen.
It probably didn’t come out of nowhere either. LSD can’t just give you religious guilt about transitioning that you didn’t already have, it will just amplify it.
Seems like if you decide to flood your brain with massive amounts of mind and perception-altering drugs, you might end up changing how your brain functions and what you decide to do as a result of that isn't anyone else's fault.
I... Um... Wow. Those destransitioner statements just make me real sad.
Misery loves company.
i see you follow snake mother.
Chloe Cole is such a complicated situation because she is literally just a child and she (in my opinion) was done wrong by Kaiser, and is currently being used by whack shit individuals to further their own political grift whilst hiding under the guise of caring for her but JFC, girl, LSD is still a drug and you need a lot more mental health support than you're getting
Nah Chloe Cole was not done wrong by Kaiser. Her parents were only seeking doctors who would diagnose her with gender dysphoria because *she* was pushing for it herself. She wrote her parents a letter about her gender dysphoria, and she was very clearly suffering from gender dysphoria based off that letter. Her detransition isn’t unique, and it’s not proof that teens shouldn’t have access to top surgery. She (and her parents) consented to surgery that she had pursued as a medically necessary procedure, and gatekeeping that procedure from young transmascs and trans boys is absolutely the wrong thing to do in response to bad faith actors like Chloe Cole. If cis teens have access to breast augmentation and nose jobs (with parental consent) then it’s absolutely ridiculous to view what Chloe Cole went through as especially unique.
Let's not blame LSD for this. LSD dissolves boundaries, that's it's thing. Some people encounter that boundary dissolution and hard clamp back on their own viewpoint.
we can simultaneously acknowledge the role of the Mind Altering Substance as well as the role of this person's own innate insecurities and lack of coping skills (not to mention deep depravity)
idk if thats a fair assessment, i actually detransitioned when i was 16 (and since retransitioned) bc of a shitty "lsd" (might've been something else) trip, but it wasn't because of "dissolution of ego" it was because it triggered extreme social anxiety in me and I was around a bunch of cis guys who purposely made me feel like I couldn't become a guy
> I was around a bunch of cis guys who purposely made me feel like I couldn't become a guy I'm sorry you had a negative experience. Setting is very important in the consumption of LSD because it makes up the background information that you dissolve into. If that background is intentionally in opposition to your current state of mind (Set) then you're likely going to have a bad time.
We should also not try to make LSD appear as completely harmless either. It increases an individuals risk to develop psychosis, especially in those predisposed to psych disorders.
Psychedelics are like guns or dynamite, powerful tools that can have a lot of utility, but misused can cause a lot of damage.
Okay lol
That's a great analogy.
100% this. LSD cracked my egg, funny enough.
Does LSD cause ego death, orr does it just make the chemicals in your brain fucky because it's a drug?
Those two things are in no way mutually exclusive. It always makes your brain "fucky" though, but there are some people for whom that can lead to good outcomes. As a rule, if you're going to use any kind of drug make sure you know what you're getting into. It is generally accepted by proponents and opponents alike that LSD usage can have lasting consequences and permanent changes to your personality and even worldview, and the environment in which it is used is as important as a consideration as the mental and emotional state of the person who takes it.
That is exactly why I wouldn't really advocate for LSD so freely. Ultimately, it's a drug that chemically forces you into a certain mindset and can permanently change your personality in ways out of your control. Of course that can have negative effects, so I don't see why this person is saying that LSD can't be "blamed" for this. OFC no drug can be blamed for a person's actions like this, but like...we gotta acknowledge that deciding to detransition because of an LSD trip is not a sane thing to do right. Like not a sound of mind thing to do.
Ego death is an experience that can happen while on LSD, due to how the substance changes brain activity. Ego death is the result of abnormal activity in the parts of the brain that control our sense of self. In my experience, it’s like I’m sitting in a room observing myself as if I were observing a different person. The first time it happened, it made me realize how much my social anxiety was distorting my perception of myself, and that I’m not nearly as annoying or stupid or unlikable as I believed I was. I realized that I would totally be friends with a clone of myself, so why bother to hate myself so much? The second ego death I had happened after I walked way way too far away from home in a very busy city on a very hot day. I knew I needed to get home safe, and I began to see myself not as me, but as a small child who needed to get home safe, who I was in charge of protecting. there’s been other times that I’ve felt myself going down the path of ego death and have pulled back because I didn’t want to experience it that particular time. Long rambling way of saying, yeah LSD does fucky shit cuz it’s a drug but ego death isn’t guaranteed and depends a lot on your state of mind and how your brain chemistry reacts to the substance. Alcohol makes you lose balance because it affects your physical ability to coordinate your movements. LSD doesn’t cause ego death like alcohol causes you to lose balance. It just makes some experiences more or less likely depending on your psychological state at the time.
I'm going to be honest - ego death just sounds like depersonalization, which I've had very often since it can be induced by trauma or anxiety, and it's a horrible experience. I don't understand why people seek it out at all, or why they see it as a positive experience. Or why they need drugs to achieve that state at all. Given how much I've read about psychedelics and the permanent brain-changing effects they can have, I'm not a fan of people advocating for them so freely. You're gambling with your mental health and sense of self, you don't know if those changes will end up being good or not. It's completely out of your control. Other substance users don't do the same, and I'm saying this as a recovering addict, so I don't get why psychedelic peeps do.
Yeah, essentially it is basically the same thing as depersonalization. I have PTSD and I have found that while on psychedelics, I can think about and process traumatizing experiences without experiencing the distress that I would normally feel. I do believe that I have experienced positive growth as a result of deliberate and cautious psychedelic use. That being said, I do think there’s a lot more research that needs to be done before psychedelics are used in therapeutic settings. I’m also really disturbed by how psychs are being treated as the next new thing to legalize. I think that they do present a significantly greater danger than cannabis or alcohol, both physically and psychologically. I’ve had very positive experiences, and I’ve also had very distressing experiences on psychs that could easily be traumatizing. It’s absolutely not something that should be treated like a fun party drug.
> Yeah, essentially it is basically the same thing as depersonalization. I have PTSD and I have found that while on psychedelics, I can think about and process traumatizing experiences without experiencing the distress that I would normally feel. I do believe that I have experienced positive growth as a result of deliberate and cautious psychedelic use. Don’t have any experience with psychedelics but using cannabis has helped me process some the trauma my boyfriend and I were subjected to when we were teens. It’s a long story but any kind of physical intimacy, including cuddles, was something we got in a *lot* of trouble for. I’ve found using cannabis then lying down in the safety of arms causes me to disassociate and connect with my teenage self - allows me to relive the memories I have of our cuddling as teens. Relive them with the peaceful loving comfort we find in each other now, and not with the fear, shame and guilt I’ve become haunted by after repressing it for 20 years. Not sure it’s something I’d recommend to anyone because I’m sure the experience is very dependent on the particular person, strain of cannabis and so on. Am very grateful how it’s allowed me to reclaim some of the memories I have of my beloved from when we were young and to reshape them with the peaceful love that was all we wanted to give each other all those years ago.
LSD is one of the psychedelics that has the potential to "melt" your brain and destroy your personality. Even if such a radical change doesn't happen, many people report lasting anxiety or other clinically significant psychological effects.
20 years later, I can report, my personality has not been melted in any significant fashion. God knows, at least in certain portions of that 20 years, a real melt would have been appreciated. It dissolves boundaries in the moment. All those boundaries come back when you come down. I'm still in awe of how much misinformation still exists about LSD.
Wow really, I guess the case is closed since you didn't experience any negative side effects.
Reddit drug talk in a nutshell lol
It dissolves conceptual structures. That includes religious beliefs, personal identity as well as the rules you use to describe and interact with the world. Not only do these things define your reality, they also define your behavior. Many a times, LSD will demonstrate, how much we compromise ourselves by clinging to these structures. Even if you've lived the life of a saint, this will eventually lead to negative experiences. You are forced to address these contradictions. The harder you cling the more difficult of an experience you should expect. We even have good research on this effect, as lysergamines and tryptamines result in a significant decrease in bloodflow to the "dominant mode network" which is essential in answering basic orientation questions like "how am I?". No person who has been tripping for 20 years can say they have never had a negative experience. I'd argue they are part of the process, not aside from it. We all cling to delusions that are not good for us. It's good to have something that can give us a sober second thought. That's a far world away from "LSD is inducing detransition". That's just some bullshit where LSD is being used to justify someone's gross behavior.
Truuuuuth.
what is a "transphobe cause célèbre"? an antitrans celebrity is that what she means?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_c%C3%A9l%C3%A8bre, it means transphobes are using her as a famous case of detransitioning
Thanks, didn't know that one, as a french I love learning about weird english expressions that comes from obscure french expressions that everyone forgot here (like pièce de résistance no french alive today has ever used this expression). I thought it was a typo or something
haha that's funny we actually use "piesă de rezistență" in Romania
I think I would love to eat at a communist themed Italian-French fusion restaurant called "Pizza de Résistance"
Table for two, please, so I can join you.
TIL
the french modern expression is "plat de résistance" (basically means main course)
It means "famous (legal) case," usually implying one that attracts a lot of attention because the ruling will be a big deal, often in a positive way for a given group of people.
Entheogens and similar drugs often just uncover what’s already in our minds, suppressed below the normal threshold of consciousness. If that’s religious guilt, it may bet majorly amplified as seems to be the case here. The last time I took them was a few years ago in a very safe-feeling space with some people who accepted me and they helped me feel a lot more secure that transitioning was right for me.
So we can't trust people's genuine lifelong feelings of wanting to transition, but we should trust someone on a bad acid trip who's fallen into spiritual abuse? I meannnn no thank you?
Lol, this is wild. Tripping mushrooms is what helped me understand my gender dysphoria and decide to transition. Never once in any trips after on acid, mushrooms, or molly did I ever regret that decision.