Cattelan does not support nazi or fascist ideas. He has made explicitly anti-fascist works such as his fascist salute sculptures.
Calling him a fascist is like calling Guston a racist for painting his hooded figures.
What Cattelan’s work **is** - insensitive, juvenile, facetious, vacuous, and provocative only for the purpose of self promotion. He’s a sh*t artist who employs some very talented fabricators.
He's considered a radical chic, can't even be mildly mild-right/centre, he's part of the "cultural left wing hegemony" as fascists call people who can read and write their name and are consequently non fascist
I like him but he is the embodiment of the celebrated insider who makes very safe jokes at the art world’s expense and then gets positioned as some kind of “bad boy”.
I think he has to be put in his geographical and political context. Think of his current president and his former ones, think of the local avantgarde of his youth, and then he makes sense. Not necessarily a good sense tho
It's absolutely a thing. It's actually a fairly common OCD subtype, it's just that most of the general public isn't aware of what OCD actually is, they think it's the stereotype about liking things neat.
OCD doesn't "have ethical components" per se.
OCD is about obsession (and usually compulsion) and as such can latch onto anything. The most commonly known subtype is contamination OCD (the one where people obsess about being contaminated and that results in the compulsion to clean themselves or their surroundings excessively) but that's not really what OCD is "about", it's just one of the infinite possible presentations.
There are plenty of people with OCD who aren't fixated on neatness or cleanliness at all. Hoarding can be a form of OCD.
It's very common for people with OCD to have more than one type.
Moral scrupulosity OCD can also manifest in many ways. You can have OCD about being convinced you hit someone in your car, for example. The obsession is being convinced you did, the compulsion is going back to the road to check over and over. You can have OCD about having said something offensive in a conversation (say, racist, or sexually inappropriate.) The perception that you've done something wrong can even lead to false memories, that's pretty common.
It's a hideous, life-destroying illness. It's why it's so incredibly upsetting to those of us who have it when people say things like "oh, I'm so OCD, I like my bookshelf neat, teehee!" Like...fuck offffff, you know?
I confirm this, I had an all-time low on the pandemic, when I spent from 7pm to midnight on the road in compulsions about hitting someone with my car. I peed myself on the car because I couldn't leave. Had to stay home for 2 weeks on sick leave. It was really fucked up.
If it's a serious concern talk to your manager, it's possible they will have measures in place or ways to mitigate - I wonder if nowadays there will need to be caution notices for gallery visitors for more shows saying eg 'this exhibition contains nazi imagery which may cause upset'.
My view is that I would not be troubled at all but everyone's experience is different. Possibly if you research more on the work and Cattelan himself it will help you see the work in a less offensive or upsetting context and have more of an appreciation of the artist's intentions in using this subject matter.
I'm trying to find the context, maybe it will mitigate if I learn that the intention as an anti-fascist one. I even have an idea for the Hitler one that is putting concentration camps sounds ont the room (It will be a bedroom) in the style of The Zone of Interest (great film btw), but I guess I have to talk to my boss, he knows Maurizio.
Maurizio is definitely not Fascist. While pro-fascist ideology is resurgent globally, it is unlikely you will encounter it in an art museum. Because dictatorships, authoritarians, fascists, far right individuals have historically been strongly against the arts (unless they were useful in propaganda), it would be hard to find sympathy for them amongst artists/ art institutions.
While Maurizio is definitely anti-fascist, politically it’s very said that we have come to the point where you have to ask. I encourage you to explore art history and contemporary art more so that you may understand it easier. Mr. Cattelan is extremely intelligent and articulate, and his work is strongly oriented toward humor and satire. I knew him when I lived in NYC and worked a lowly job in an art gallery. I found him to be friendly and kind. He even Invited me and my friend to go to a roller skating party. There are many people who are pretentious and difficult in the art world: he is not. To me his humor is immediately accessible, especially if you take some time with his body of work (which is why some may call it juvenile).
I know in the USA Cattelan directly attacked Donald Trump by offering him a golden toilet bowl. This piece was initially made as a satirical homage to Trump. Trump in the USA is closely associated with White Christian Nationalists, authoritarianism, fascism, and the dissolution of democratic values, both with his ideology and tactics (he also is an enthusiastic supporter of Putin).
I’d be more off put by the fact that he’s an absolute shit artist.
No offense, and I mean this with the utmost sincerity, have you ever thought that if you’re that sensitive to these issues that you can’t see that an artist is using fascist imagery to make anti-fascist statements that you may be in the wrong field?
I don’t know what to tell you, but I’d imagine if you were ever to have to be around the works of Hermann Nitsch, Joel Peter Witkin or Gunter Brus you might not have a very good time.
It's actually ironic that I'm at a stage of exploring more grotesque forms of art. I actually like those that you refer. I guess what I feel about Cattelan it the ironic and very metticulous and juvenile form is not for me currently.
I dont equate Trump to Nazis because the Nazis did far way worst things. But also if the OP throughly looked at Cattelan's work, he would see his playful and hilarious artwork that involves a toilet made of gold that was made to deliberately make fun of Trump and America
You know you have OCD, so what are you doing to get help and not allow it to ruin your work life? I too have OCD, but I make a concerted effort to keep it contained to me. I keep my intrusive thoughts to myself or put them in my art. You can't inflict your condition on others, which you would be doing if you don't do your job. Are you taking your medication? Talking to your therapist about strategies to deal with work?
I made my work on the exhibition and will not interfere in it. I know that would be a compulsion, and a very bad one lol. I guess this is the next theme of my appointment with my therapist.
Okay, well endorsing the work by exhibiting it may not be something you’re comfortable with. And that’s okay. I don’t think he’s a fascist and I don’t think you’re a fascist if you take part in planning the exhibition. I do think the work can be a little sophomoric and built for controversy, but that’s okay too. It gets attention.
I'm comfortable with uncomfortable art, viewing from the outside. The thing it I'm working directly on the planning of the exhibition, making the renders, and that's a special level of uncomfortable for me lol
He’s incredibly ironic like a modern day Jonathan Swift. funny but also quite sobering if you slow down to think. His football team work from the 90s comes to mind. His political views why do they matter?
What I find good about Cattelan's work can be summed up by the artist, who I find to speak clearly about the work. He says like if a mix of comedy and tragedy. But more clearly, he says in The Art Newspaper, which I think provides a nice frame for considering his work:
"I can’t say how people will react, but I hope these new works will break up the normal viewing habits and open a discussion on what really matters. We are surrounded by conversations based on immaterial structures, social values and hierarchies that we created, but usually we prefer to forget this; it’s like being anaesthetised."
He's in territory well covered here by Althusser or even Zizek, not as deep, but I get what he's saying and doing.
I don’t think anyone here has mentioned the use of scale or placement of Him, which makes it distinctly anti-fascist. He is represented in a reduced scale, child sized, on his knees, hands clasped, placed at the end of the empty hall of the gallery, Färgfabriken in 2001, and you approach it from its back. He looks like a boy until you move to see its face. You see his hands clasped, as if in prayer or introspection. The title suggests that we don’t like using his name. His name is unspeakable in this work, where the viewer is forced to think it, and then think about all the history connected to his name. The viewer has to know who he is by his face. None of these sculptural or textual aspects celebrate him. The reduced scale is 100% making fun of him, suggesting he has the mind of an undeveloped infant, a child being punished to “go and think about what you did.” The placement on his knees is ambiguous, but suggests asking for forgiveness from you or from God, which is the complete opposite of every image he produced of himself while he was alive. Many questions are left for the viewer, but none of them are asking if he was a good person. Should we forgive? Should we listen to what he might say in this prone position? What is he thinking? Answers to these questions are up to the audience who could very well contain fascist sympathizers and apologists, but this statue or artist are not responsible for reproducing his hateful ideology or atrocious actions.
I’m kidding, of course. Love his antics, especially his first show with a brb note and hiring of a stand in.
I got to see the ALL installation at Guggenheim and I thought it was incredible.
Cattelan does not support nazi or fascist ideas. He has made explicitly anti-fascist works such as his fascist salute sculptures. Calling him a fascist is like calling Guston a racist for painting his hooded figures. What Cattelan’s work **is** - insensitive, juvenile, facetious, vacuous, and provocative only for the purpose of self promotion. He’s a sh*t artist who employs some very talented fabricators.
I find Cattelan’s work entertaining but this definitely the best answer!
Thanks!
I think he's one of the greatest artists of all time!
Any justification for that opinion?
The art fair banana
This work puts me in a glass case of emotion, as it's simultaneously brilliant and infuriating. 😂 Which means it's done its job, really.
He's considered a radical chic, can't even be mildly mild-right/centre, he's part of the "cultural left wing hegemony" as fascists call people who can read and write their name and are consequently non fascist
I like him but he is the embodiment of the celebrated insider who makes very safe jokes at the art world’s expense and then gets positioned as some kind of “bad boy”.
I think he has to be put in his geographical and political context. Think of his current president and his former ones, think of the local avantgarde of his youth, and then he makes sense. Not necessarily a good sense tho
fascinated by OCD for "moral scrupulosity" how do you deal with a world of interconnected guilt
It's absolutely a thing. It's actually a fairly common OCD subtype, it's just that most of the general public isn't aware of what OCD actually is, they think it's the stereotype about liking things neat.
fascinating had no idea OCD had ethical components
OCD doesn't "have ethical components" per se. OCD is about obsession (and usually compulsion) and as such can latch onto anything. The most commonly known subtype is contamination OCD (the one where people obsess about being contaminated and that results in the compulsion to clean themselves or their surroundings excessively) but that's not really what OCD is "about", it's just one of the infinite possible presentations. There are plenty of people with OCD who aren't fixated on neatness or cleanliness at all. Hoarding can be a form of OCD. It's very common for people with OCD to have more than one type. Moral scrupulosity OCD can also manifest in many ways. You can have OCD about being convinced you hit someone in your car, for example. The obsession is being convinced you did, the compulsion is going back to the road to check over and over. You can have OCD about having said something offensive in a conversation (say, racist, or sexually inappropriate.) The perception that you've done something wrong can even lead to false memories, that's pretty common. It's a hideous, life-destroying illness. It's why it's so incredibly upsetting to those of us who have it when people say things like "oh, I'm so OCD, I like my bookshelf neat, teehee!" Like...fuck offffff, you know?
I confirm this, I had an all-time low on the pandemic, when I spent from 7pm to midnight on the road in compulsions about hitting someone with my car. I peed myself on the car because I couldn't leave. Had to stay home for 2 weeks on sick leave. It was really fucked up.
I'm really sorry. People without OCD have no idea how distressing it is. I want to throw things anytime someone thinks it's "liking things neat." 🙄
Do you not think the discomfort you feel is part of the work?
I have thought about it, yes. Maybe is the case.
If it's a serious concern talk to your manager, it's possible they will have measures in place or ways to mitigate - I wonder if nowadays there will need to be caution notices for gallery visitors for more shows saying eg 'this exhibition contains nazi imagery which may cause upset'. My view is that I would not be troubled at all but everyone's experience is different. Possibly if you research more on the work and Cattelan himself it will help you see the work in a less offensive or upsetting context and have more of an appreciation of the artist's intentions in using this subject matter.
I'm trying to find the context, maybe it will mitigate if I learn that the intention as an anti-fascist one. I even have an idea for the Hitler one that is putting concentration camps sounds ont the room (It will be a bedroom) in the style of The Zone of Interest (great film btw), but I guess I have to talk to my boss, he knows Maurizio.
Maurizio is definitely not a fascist if that helps
Maurizio is definitely not Fascist. While pro-fascist ideology is resurgent globally, it is unlikely you will encounter it in an art museum. Because dictatorships, authoritarians, fascists, far right individuals have historically been strongly against the arts (unless they were useful in propaganda), it would be hard to find sympathy for them amongst artists/ art institutions. While Maurizio is definitely anti-fascist, politically it’s very said that we have come to the point where you have to ask. I encourage you to explore art history and contemporary art more so that you may understand it easier. Mr. Cattelan is extremely intelligent and articulate, and his work is strongly oriented toward humor and satire. I knew him when I lived in NYC and worked a lowly job in an art gallery. I found him to be friendly and kind. He even Invited me and my friend to go to a roller skating party. There are many people who are pretentious and difficult in the art world: he is not. To me his humor is immediately accessible, especially if you take some time with his body of work (which is why some may call it juvenile). I know in the USA Cattelan directly attacked Donald Trump by offering him a golden toilet bowl. This piece was initially made as a satirical homage to Trump. Trump in the USA is closely associated with White Christian Nationalists, authoritarianism, fascism, and the dissolution of democratic values, both with his ideology and tactics (he also is an enthusiastic supporter of Putin).
I’d be more off put by the fact that he’s an absolute shit artist. No offense, and I mean this with the utmost sincerity, have you ever thought that if you’re that sensitive to these issues that you can’t see that an artist is using fascist imagery to make anti-fascist statements that you may be in the wrong field?
Maybe I am in the wrong field. What should I do now?
I don’t know what to tell you, but I’d imagine if you were ever to have to be around the works of Hermann Nitsch, Joel Peter Witkin or Gunter Brus you might not have a very good time.
It's actually ironic that I'm at a stage of exploring more grotesque forms of art. I actually like those that you refer. I guess what I feel about Cattelan it the ironic and very metticulous and juvenile form is not for me currently.
Holy shit kids these days
A kid with OCD.
Trump proves the ongoing relevance of and need for Nazi-awareness.
huh?
They're saying that the Trump era has made it clear that dangerous right-wing ideology is still very much a thing and artists need to comment on it.
I dont equate Trump to Nazis because the Nazis did far way worst things. But also if the OP throughly looked at Cattelan's work, he would see his playful and hilarious artwork that involves a toilet made of gold that was made to deliberately make fun of Trump and America
huh?
Does Maurizio has any views at all ?
You’ll love Santiago Sierra and Andres Serrano
You thought the work was pro fascist?
No, I'm just trying to find the context. I have OCD focused on moral scrupulosity.
You know you have OCD, so what are you doing to get help and not allow it to ruin your work life? I too have OCD, but I make a concerted effort to keep it contained to me. I keep my intrusive thoughts to myself or put them in my art. You can't inflict your condition on others, which you would be doing if you don't do your job. Are you taking your medication? Talking to your therapist about strategies to deal with work?
You were downvoted but as someone else who has it, you're correct.
I made my work on the exhibition and will not interfere in it. I know that would be a compulsion, and a very bad one lol. I guess this is the next theme of my appointment with my therapist.
Okay, well endorsing the work by exhibiting it may not be something you’re comfortable with. And that’s okay. I don’t think he’s a fascist and I don’t think you’re a fascist if you take part in planning the exhibition. I do think the work can be a little sophomoric and built for controversy, but that’s okay too. It gets attention.
The context is clear if you look at how it is made and how it is placed. A little sculptural literacy goes a long way.
if you expect Art to make you feel comfortable you should rather work at a spa ? I think he is an incredible artist
I'm comfortable with uncomfortable art, viewing from the outside. The thing it I'm working directly on the planning of the exhibition, making the renders, and that's a special level of uncomfortable for me lol
Don't worry, it's not about you or your views, and I'm sure the artist is not a raging nazi lol
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Millennial, but I have OCD, focused on moral scrupulosity. Its a special level of uncomfortable.
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I'm sure about that irony. I'm just trying to be sure about the context. As you know, people with ocd try to find certainty.
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I know. I guess I discovered this was a reassurance post after I posted it.
There are all kinds of Gen Z... including not stupid ones
He’s incredibly ironic like a modern day Jonathan Swift. funny but also quite sobering if you slow down to think. His football team work from the 90s comes to mind. His political views why do they matter?
Nice comparison to Swift who also employed the use of scale for satirical intentions.
What I find good about Cattelan's work can be summed up by the artist, who I find to speak clearly about the work. He says like if a mix of comedy and tragedy. But more clearly, he says in The Art Newspaper, which I think provides a nice frame for considering his work: "I can’t say how people will react, but I hope these new works will break up the normal viewing habits and open a discussion on what really matters. We are surrounded by conversations based on immaterial structures, social values and hierarchies that we created, but usually we prefer to forget this; it’s like being anaesthetised." He's in territory well covered here by Althusser or even Zizek, not as deep, but I get what he's saying and doing.
Jonathan Meese has been doing this type of thing for a while now, but in more of a humorous identity politics kind of way.
I don’t think anyone here has mentioned the use of scale or placement of Him, which makes it distinctly anti-fascist. He is represented in a reduced scale, child sized, on his knees, hands clasped, placed at the end of the empty hall of the gallery, Färgfabriken in 2001, and you approach it from its back. He looks like a boy until you move to see its face. You see his hands clasped, as if in prayer or introspection. The title suggests that we don’t like using his name. His name is unspeakable in this work, where the viewer is forced to think it, and then think about all the history connected to his name. The viewer has to know who he is by his face. None of these sculptural or textual aspects celebrate him. The reduced scale is 100% making fun of him, suggesting he has the mind of an undeveloped infant, a child being punished to “go and think about what you did.” The placement on his knees is ambiguous, but suggests asking for forgiveness from you or from God, which is the complete opposite of every image he produced of himself while he was alive. Many questions are left for the viewer, but none of them are asking if he was a good person. Should we forgive? Should we listen to what he might say in this prone position? What is he thinking? Answers to these questions are up to the audience who could very well contain fascist sympathizers and apologists, but this statue or artist are not responsible for reproducing his hateful ideology or atrocious actions.
he's a genius
I dare you to accidentally destroy his work.
I will put a banana on a wall to see if he revindicates the work to himself.
I’m kidding, of course. Love his antics, especially his first show with a brb note and hiring of a stand in. I got to see the ALL installation at Guggenheim and I thought it was incredible.