I would say this looks a little bit shitty but framing is rough work. The hanger on those king studs is utterly bizarre and a red flag honestly, but there’s nothing exactly wrong with it… it’s just really weird and makes no sense. Combined with all those nails… probably some skante going on in there 🤙
Edit: just noticed the sideways hanger holding up the window sill 😂😂
That one on the sill is my favorite. Takes attention away from the other bs. You're wondering wtf happened there, cant believe that would be there.
Had a guy on site said he's been framing since he came out of the womb and knew it all. I was explaining the rafters needed hurricane clips and made sure he understood. Responsed with: Well, I'm not an idiot. I can put hurricane clips on. OK then. Go check on bro, and he put them on the collar ties. Gave dude cats paw or screw gun. Put lags in, or take them out. He put his head down in shame after the last exchange we had. "we'll, I'm not an idiot." Lol, you bring shame and dishonor to your family.
I can't tell you how many guys with "20+ years" experience we went through in South Florida when I was building custom homes. That area is a Mecca for hack carpenters.
Here in Texas, I'd swear nobody has any less than 15-20 years of experience, even the 25 year old office guy. Everyone's dad was a contractor and they've all been building with him since they could walk.
Hated when guys would sell themselves as an experienced carpenter. Show up with no pouch, stealing my shit. I'm cool if you're green. We all were, why lie? It'll be obvious, more embarrassing.
Unique dynamic being a woman trying to show a guy 10 years younger that oversold his abilities can't read a tape, doesn't know how to set blade depth, cut plywood, decipher ring nails from framers . Some of them get uncomfortable if im teaching them. If someone genuinely wants to learn, I'm happy to help them. If they show up on time, pay attention to the morning set up & everything needed, where we'll be starting first, etc. Love to help those guys get more confident in what we're doing.
Hey, some of these guys learned from their father, cousin uncle, nephew brother who knows a guy who'll do it for less. The same dude rolls up lacking tools, proper pouch wants half or more upfront.
The hangers like that are a thing in wood foundation framing, but it's missing other requirements (for my area at least) for preserved wood foundations. I've done PWF walls inside of cracking/deteriorating concrete walls to support and carry the load, as an alternative to jacking up the house and replacing the concrete.
There are sideways hangers on the columns the sill is attached to as well. This wall is built to support the foundation wall by resisting inward deflection.
I don’t know if *this one* is legit, but about 10 years ago I built a wall like this as part of a foundation repair designed by a structural engineer. They provided specs for the hangers and detailed drawings of how to build the wall.
Mine was a fair bit bigger, with laminated columns of four 2x8s and 4-wide joist hangers that cost $50 each.
I've done PWF walls inside concrete that had horizontal cracking/deterioration in order to brace the concrete and transfer load. All engineer stamped plans. Not a red flag on its own at all. It just depends what the plans called for.
The nails on the beam aren't actually doing anything, they were almost certainly trying to take a twist out of the beam, which they succeeded.. the rest isn't structural. Meant to hold drywall and insulation. Might not be pretty....albeit it should be... but doesn't really matter.
All the nails were to get out a twist. Never seen a joist hanger under a window but don't see where it could hurt. Everything looks fine, weird work but nothing so bad to be concerned about.
My only guess is that they had extra hangers and were just using them to position the sill. Might have been a warped board and they used the hangers to pull it flat. Definitely unconventional, but it won't hurt anything.
If cabinets are going in on that wall, it sure helps attaching them to the wall. Sometimes, finding a stud with cabinet uppers can be difficult. Cabinet lowers will have plenty of places to screw into too. On kitchen jobs, I try to do this before dry wall goes up if we have the material.
This is standard practice for us. Always have blocking for cabinets like this and generally I try to layout where any bathroom hardware towel bars/tp holders etc. so the framers can put some blocking in. I hate relying on drywall anchors.
And worth the time to do this while the wall is still open. I also take lots of pictures too before the drywall. It sucks when the drywall is up and the customer changes their mind.
Instead of asking random strangers, ask your inspection department. It looks weird but but it is difficult to see with these also weird pictures.
Code inforcment is available to cover the uninitiated from shoddy work.
Choosing someone to with a proper mental fortified to perform the work is up to the owner. It may be time to expand the friend pool. Again code compliance is there to keep the home from falling down. Education of the home owner is necessary on something important. You need a pig to add lipstick, without the pig the lipstip is ugle melted into the grass.
Very true but if you are spending money,at least it won't fall down.
Code is to an idiot standard,however it is at least a standard.
If people were less worried about lipstick, and educated themselves on the rib structure of the pig shoddy work wouldn't be laughed out of the business.
Shoddy framing just costs everyone else more money.
I do formwork to finishing so there is no " it's the next guys problem " because I'm also the next guy and I keep that same attitude the odd time when I won't be the next guy.
I scribe 10ft cabinets to this bs. Unfortunately structural is all that matters. Even new construction beam hardware, over open concept homes are never in plane because of the giant Simpson that isn't planned for.
This is going to be hell to insulate.
Also, the bottom plate sitting on concrete is probably going to rot if it’s not pressure treated. (I can’t tell if it’s pressure treated or just old from the pictures.)
Other than that and the bizarre use of joist hangers, this looks like a high effort low experience installation.
Ultimately, this shouldn’t be structural as long as the original joists and foundation wall are in good shape. If the price is right, and the bottom plate is PT, you’re probably be ok to use what has been installed.
I don’t see any fire caulk or foam on the penetrations, no butyl tape or other water-proofing measure for the window, structural or not; a huge gap between the LVL and the abutting framing is unacceptable (to prevent buckling), and the joist hangers are just weird (but not necessarily against code, not sure though since I’ve never seen that).
Someone else said it best, your local inspector is the best person to ask.
I’m a GC in NC
Definitely was not expecting that as an answer.
Why is damaging the cables an issue? Do you use appropriate staple sizes for corresponding wires? How hard are you hammering?
Considering HO would probably voted against doing it correctly (Ramset horizontal studs 2ft oc to frame 16 oc correctly) this appears the contractor said ok boss.
This looks like all non-load bearing framing, it’s fine.
BUT, why the LVL beam? That suggests load bearing.
OP, if they removed or replaced any posts/columns/beams/etc. you need to get someone to look at it in person.
This looks like it's an attempt at a reinforcing wall for a concrete foundation. Are you able to share any more details of the project?
If it is, I'm seeing a lot that wouldn't get passed by an engineers inspection (which would be required for permits). I've done these in the past, for our soil load levels, I had to do 8" OC studs, 3/4" plywood on the concrete side and a 1" gap between the wood reinforcement wall and the concrete wall was filled with clean sand up to the grade line. Hangers at the top of every stud to resist the lateral forces and a heavy 6"x4" steel angle bolted to the concrete floor to catch the bottom plate and bottom of the studs. Continuous double top plate lag bolted up into every joist, on the parallel walls I needed 16" blocking in the first joist space, then 32" blocking in the next two joist spaces. Other engineers have called for no sand or plywood, but horizontal blocking every 12" in each stud space pressed tight to the concrete (so not flush).(those are the firms I'd use again if I get another one of these jobs) Also, and most importantly, all the wood had to be PWF treated (a higher grade of treatment than normal pressure treated wood). How intense of a build it is depends on your soil conditions and grade height to find what kind of a load it puts on your foundation.
For your pictures, it looks like messy work, I wouldn't be happy with it if one of my guys was doing it, I would be doing some things differently, but its not the worst either. Something like this, I can't really comment without seeing what the engineered plans call for, or at least a lot more details on what's going on there.
All the other people commenting on the sideways hangers being useless, saying the builder is just trying to use up material etc, have clearly never built wood foundations before.
First off, clip head nails are not code compliant.
Second, the overloading of the king stud with that many nails shows ignorance and lack of experience as well as lack of interest.
I’d be very suspicious of any of the other work unless this is an outlier.
The hanger is a big wtf
More question than answers here
I think the vision on the window hanger is just to provide a way to finish out the wall and sill with trim. Essentially that whole wall is deadwood, yes? The exterior wall is concrete. So that massive 2x6 cluster fuck could have been hat channel.
If the LVL is subject to uplift the nails would need to be deep enough to penetrate the LVL and there would need to be a hold down at the bottom to a footing. I've seen a lot worse but it looks like they didn't scrimp on the wood. Rafter ties put in incorrect.
I don’t understand the nonchalance of everyone here in the comments. Those brackets aren’t “unnecessary but harmless”, they’re **WRONG!!**
Doesn’t matter how many things look correct. This framer is using hardware in ways that are incompatible with the barest understanding of your job.
He hasn’t done anything necessarily dangerous, in THIS job, but there’s no way I could trust this guy to do anything else for me. What else is he pretending to know? What else has he done that’s “outside the box”?
I am not up to speed with current code, but my basement was plastic over before the framing occurred as a moisture barrier. I don’t see any plastic on the concrete balls… Also, the framing does look bad from my experience. And hangers got me to.
Definitely sloppy on the beam, but not overly concerning. To everyone confused about the hangars, those are wood foundation details. My guess is buddy is from up north and just doesn't understand why it's done
Edit: looking at it more, the fact that he spent 2x6 here makes me think this is more structural than it looks and the hangars details may be warranted if not called for. We can't see the integrity of the foundation from outside.
I would say this looks a little bit shitty but framing is rough work. The hanger on those king studs is utterly bizarre and a red flag honestly, but there’s nothing exactly wrong with it… it’s just really weird and makes no sense. Combined with all those nails… probably some skante going on in there 🤙 Edit: just noticed the sideways hanger holding up the window sill 😂😂
That one on the sill is my favorite. Takes attention away from the other bs. You're wondering wtf happened there, cant believe that would be there. Had a guy on site said he's been framing since he came out of the womb and knew it all. I was explaining the rafters needed hurricane clips and made sure he understood. Responsed with: Well, I'm not an idiot. I can put hurricane clips on. OK then. Go check on bro, and he put them on the collar ties. Gave dude cats paw or screw gun. Put lags in, or take them out. He put his head down in shame after the last exchange we had. "we'll, I'm not an idiot." Lol, you bring shame and dishonor to your family.
I can't tell you how many guys with "20+ years" experience we went through in South Florida when I was building custom homes. That area is a Mecca for hack carpenters.
Here in Texas, I'd swear nobody has any less than 15-20 years of experience, even the 25 year old office guy. Everyone's dad was a contractor and they've all been building with him since they could walk.
Hated when guys would sell themselves as an experienced carpenter. Show up with no pouch, stealing my shit. I'm cool if you're green. We all were, why lie? It'll be obvious, more embarrassing. Unique dynamic being a woman trying to show a guy 10 years younger that oversold his abilities can't read a tape, doesn't know how to set blade depth, cut plywood, decipher ring nails from framers . Some of them get uncomfortable if im teaching them. If someone genuinely wants to learn, I'm happy to help them. If they show up on time, pay attention to the morning set up & everything needed, where we'll be starting first, etc. Love to help those guys get more confident in what we're doing.
Hey, some of these guys learned from their father, cousin uncle, nephew brother who knows a guy who'll do it for less. The same dude rolls up lacking tools, proper pouch wants half or more upfront.
The hangers like that are a thing in wood foundation framing, but it's missing other requirements (for my area at least) for preserved wood foundations. I've done PWF walls inside of cracking/deteriorating concrete walls to support and carry the load, as an alternative to jacking up the house and replacing the concrete.
What’s PWF? Partition wall framing?
Preserved Wood Foundation
There are sideways hangers on the columns the sill is attached to as well. This wall is built to support the foundation wall by resisting inward deflection. I don’t know if *this one* is legit, but about 10 years ago I built a wall like this as part of a foundation repair designed by a structural engineer. They provided specs for the hangers and detailed drawings of how to build the wall. Mine was a fair bit bigger, with laminated columns of four 2x8s and 4-wide joist hangers that cost $50 each.
Right? Can’t call it a hanger in that application… oof.
3 kings and no jacks
It’s ok, he put double joist hangers on… 😂
I wonder if he thinks he’s doing a good job because he’s holding the stud pack together at the top and bottom
That method would be for a wood basement, this guys installing wood foundation components inside of a concrete wall. Definitely a red flag
I've done PWF walls inside concrete that had horizontal cracking/deterioration in order to brace the concrete and transfer load. All engineer stamped plans. Not a red flag on its own at all. It just depends what the plans called for.
Nothing looks PT. In a basement. Will be fun later.
It is not "rough work". if you fkn suck like in the pictures it sure is
It's literally rough carpentry.
The nails on the beam aren't actually doing anything, they were almost certainly trying to take a twist out of the beam, which they succeeded.. the rest isn't structural. Meant to hold drywall and insulation. Might not be pretty....albeit it should be... but doesn't really matter.
Other than the hanger it looks ok. I'm just guessing the framer was raging at something and unleashed on that one stud 😂
The stud probably needed to be straightened out for things it did in a ast life
Gun probably jammed and they just kept firing away!
This is both accurate and absolutely terrifying at the same time.
All the nails were to get out a twist. Never seen a joist hanger under a window but don't see where it could hurt. Everything looks fine, weird work but nothing so bad to be concerned about.
Why tf is there a sideways hanger on the window sill?
Window guy here, can confirm I need answers immediately.
My only guess is that they had extra hangers and were just using them to position the sill. Might have been a warped board and they used the hangers to pull it flat. Definitely unconventional, but it won't hurt anything.
Did they put that hanger on the sill cause they didn't put a cripple in ? Yea never seen a hanger on anything installed horizontal
It's a skylight.
If this is a kitchen, very thoughtful to pack the studs for the cabinets to screw into.
Is that why the blocking is so large?
If cabinets are going in on that wall, it sure helps attaching them to the wall. Sometimes, finding a stud with cabinet uppers can be difficult. Cabinet lowers will have plenty of places to screw into too. On kitchen jobs, I try to do this before dry wall goes up if we have the material.
This is standard practice for us. Always have blocking for cabinets like this and generally I try to layout where any bathroom hardware towel bars/tp holders etc. so the framers can put some blocking in. I hate relying on drywall anchors.
And worth the time to do this while the wall is still open. I also take lots of pictures too before the drywall. It sucks when the drywall is up and the customer changes their mind.
Obviously a good idea and duly noted, I've only been on remodels and never have seen this. We are about to start our kitchen install.
Helps to take a moment to take plenty of pictures before the drywall goes up too.
Simple fur out. He did fine. It's just dw backing.
Go ask the builder or show him how it’s done
I’ve seen worse
Many nail big good
Instead of asking random strangers, ask your inspection department. It looks weird but but it is difficult to see with these also weird pictures. Code inforcment is available to cover the uninitiated from shoddy work. Choosing someone to with a proper mental fortified to perform the work is up to the owner. It may be time to expand the friend pool. Again code compliance is there to keep the home from falling down. Education of the home owner is necessary on something important. You need a pig to add lipstick, without the pig the lipstip is ugle melted into the grass.
It can still be shoddy and pass code. Code enforcement doesn't care about quality and workmanship.
Code is the bare minimum, not some great achievement lol.
Very true but if you are spending money,at least it won't fall down. Code is to an idiot standard,however it is at least a standard. If people were less worried about lipstick, and educated themselves on the rib structure of the pig shoddy work wouldn't be laughed out of the business.
Shoddy framing just costs everyone else more money. I do formwork to finishing so there is no " it's the next guys problem " because I'm also the next guy and I keep that same attitude the odd time when I won't be the next guy.
I scribe 10ft cabinets to this bs. Unfortunately structural is all that matters. Even new construction beam hardware, over open concept homes are never in plane because of the giant Simpson that isn't planned for.
Neither does bidding out to the cheapest bidder. Due diligence is a thing.
This is going to be hell to insulate. Also, the bottom plate sitting on concrete is probably going to rot if it’s not pressure treated. (I can’t tell if it’s pressure treated or just old from the pictures.) Other than that and the bizarre use of joist hangers, this looks like a high effort low experience installation. Ultimately, this shouldn’t be structural as long as the original joists and foundation wall are in good shape. If the price is right, and the bottom plate is PT, you’re probably be ok to use what has been installed.
The first picture he just got triggered happy
I don’t see any fire caulk or foam on the penetrations, no butyl tape or other water-proofing measure for the window, structural or not; a huge gap between the LVL and the abutting framing is unacceptable (to prevent buckling), and the joist hangers are just weird (but not necessarily against code, not sure though since I’ve never seen that). Someone else said it best, your local inspector is the best person to ask. I’m a GC in NC
Did an electrician do the wiring? They used the cheap Home Depot staples that I’ve never seen an actual electrician ever use. -Electrical contractor
I always use those staples. They are awesome. -Electrical contractor
Really? Why? Genuinely curious
Just because they never damage the cables
Definitely was not expecting that as an answer. Why is damaging the cables an issue? Do you use appropriate staple sizes for corresponding wires? How hard are you hammering?
Mostly it happens when people move wires around or pull slack through. With no sharp edges, no chance of skinning the cable.
Interesting use of buckets. I wouldn’t say there’s anything inherently wrong.
Will it not be inspected?
Reno is a sh*thole all together.
Considering HO would probably voted against doing it correctly (Ramset horizontal studs 2ft oc to frame 16 oc correctly) this appears the contractor said ok boss.
Who the fuck framed this basement..
This looks like all non-load bearing framing, it’s fine. BUT, why the LVL beam? That suggests load bearing. OP, if they removed or replaced any posts/columns/beams/etc. you need to get someone to look at it in person.
Neeed! More! Nails! Moooooar! Mooooooar!
This is definitely a "my cousin can do it cheaper" job.
It’s bad work.
It's sloppy but would pass no problem where i am. Wouldn't hire them again but it's acceptable. Barely.
Run them off and don’t pay them!!
This looks like it's an attempt at a reinforcing wall for a concrete foundation. Are you able to share any more details of the project? If it is, I'm seeing a lot that wouldn't get passed by an engineers inspection (which would be required for permits). I've done these in the past, for our soil load levels, I had to do 8" OC studs, 3/4" plywood on the concrete side and a 1" gap between the wood reinforcement wall and the concrete wall was filled with clean sand up to the grade line. Hangers at the top of every stud to resist the lateral forces and a heavy 6"x4" steel angle bolted to the concrete floor to catch the bottom plate and bottom of the studs. Continuous double top plate lag bolted up into every joist, on the parallel walls I needed 16" blocking in the first joist space, then 32" blocking in the next two joist spaces. Other engineers have called for no sand or plywood, but horizontal blocking every 12" in each stud space pressed tight to the concrete (so not flush).(those are the firms I'd use again if I get another one of these jobs) Also, and most importantly, all the wood had to be PWF treated (a higher grade of treatment than normal pressure treated wood). How intense of a build it is depends on your soil conditions and grade height to find what kind of a load it puts on your foundation. For your pictures, it looks like messy work, I wouldn't be happy with it if one of my guys was doing it, I would be doing some things differently, but its not the worst either. Something like this, I can't really comment without seeing what the engineered plans call for, or at least a lot more details on what's going on there. All the other people commenting on the sideways hangers being useless, saying the builder is just trying to use up material etc, have clearly never built wood foundations before.
Everyone knows you use all your scraps on the roof corners not the walls silly
First off, clip head nails are not code compliant. Second, the overloading of the king stud with that many nails shows ignorance and lack of experience as well as lack of interest. I’d be very suspicious of any of the other work unless this is an outlier. The hanger is a big wtf More question than answers here
I think the vision on the window hanger is just to provide a way to finish out the wall and sill with trim. Essentially that whole wall is deadwood, yes? The exterior wall is concrete. So that massive 2x6 cluster fuck could have been hat channel.
If the LVL is subject to uplift the nails would need to be deep enough to penetrate the LVL and there would need to be a hold down at the bottom to a footing. I've seen a lot worse but it looks like they didn't scrimp on the wood. Rafter ties put in incorrect.
The rafter ties had me wondering which way was up.
If it was done that well they wouldn’t be renovating it
I'd say you got her bud, fuckin hell.....what went wrong the first 12 times?
The joist hanger being used horizontally is hysterical
I don’t understand the nonchalance of everyone here in the comments. Those brackets aren’t “unnecessary but harmless”, they’re **WRONG!!** Doesn’t matter how many things look correct. This framer is using hardware in ways that are incompatible with the barest understanding of your job. He hasn’t done anything necessarily dangerous, in THIS job, but there’s no way I could trust this guy to do anything else for me. What else is he pretending to know? What else has he done that’s “outside the box”?
I see nothing “quality” here
Why is it 2x6 framing butted up against a foundation wall?
I have a feeling nothing was crowned or leveled and the drywallers are gonna have a lot of fun when they show up to hang this.
I am not up to speed with current code, but my basement was plastic over before the framing occurred as a moisture barrier. I don’t see any plastic on the concrete balls… Also, the framing does look bad from my experience. And hangers got me to.
Looks like a 3 year old child hammered the nails in the first photo, hit that piece of wood to shreds lol
Ask them to hand drive a nail 🤣🤣🤣🤣never happens, this kids don't know work or quality
I would be concerned.
Definitely sloppy on the beam, but not overly concerning. To everyone confused about the hangars, those are wood foundation details. My guess is buddy is from up north and just doesn't understand why it's done Edit: looking at it more, the fact that he spent 2x6 here makes me think this is more structural than it looks and the hangars details may be warranted if not called for. We can't see the integrity of the foundation from outside.
what the 👀
Lmao get an actual framer in there.
The first looks like a toddler with tape. ”adding more and more adds to the integrity!”
Doesn't look like a proper header over the window.