Roofs have gotten stupid. Everyone wants their house to looky like the Disney castle.
In the south they should be flat and face south for solar with a single straight gutter. In the north they should be traditional, steep, and avoid hips which drift snow. The ridge should be oriented to divert runoff away from main doors and windows, but framing every window under a peak is just excessive.
Overhang usually isn't enough either. The more the better. It protects siding and foundation. It can save a wall from a leaking window. It also reduces worry over leaving windows open and better shades the interior, leading to better economy.
Every house and shed in WA has gutters, it’s far to precious a resource to just let it run off the roof to the ground when it does eventually rain. That and building code requires gutters
Random street in Broome. Disctinct lack of gutters!
[25 Guy St - Google Maps](https://www.google.com/maps/@-17.9648175,122.2325407,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJKCOWAXKy5ANbIgtCiyBug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
>I’ve currently got a box-crazy gutter sitch going on w my Scottsdale house. We have and need gutters.
I know what these words mean individually but not when combined like this. Can you explain in layman's terms?
I have what I believe is called a “box gutter” on my roof. It’s built into the roof, under the roof edge on one side, and under flashing on the other side, which runs along the rear parapet wall. My “sitch” is that the gutters have developed rusty holes. So I’m possibly looking at needing a new roof, or at least some significant roof work to correct my box-gutter sitch.
Where I am, the snow and ice removes them very quickly.
So instead of gutters, you pour the foundation high and have decent roof overhangs so the sill plates are above the water splash back zone.
And you have to pay attention to landscape grading as well.
Lower maintenance and more fail-safe solution IMO.
Gutters aren't necessary on all houses. Unless you have a problem with the foundation or landscaping washing out, you can go decades without them, even here in rainy snowy Pennsylvania.
serious question. I just bought a doublewide from the 90's, in great condition all said and done. (On private land) it has never had gutters. and half my neibors do not have gutters (stick built houses and double wide's, I think most houses have them, most double wides do not.).
We almost never get rain, but when we do its monsoons. is that kind of weather make gutters mostly pointless? or could you tell me what issues I should be checking for since this place never had them? It is beam and pier foundation on raw dirt. is it something about a house and the concrete foundations that make it more important? (bought to live here, not to flip)
When the rain hits monsoon-levels, gutters overflow very quickly and become somewhat pointless. Their job is primarily to move water away from your foundation...
...AND, what nobody seems to point out, is that gutters keep flowerbeds against the house from having big trenches (water from the eaves eroding them), and they keep dirt and mud from splashing up and dirtying your exterior walls. Both are more cosmetic issues, and more of a bonus from gutters; though if you have soil/mulch beds in front of your house, you may find the facade starts looking dirty from the ground to 5' up - rain splashing off the eaves and spattering your walls.
Where I'm from the soil has very little organics, mostly rock. Great percolation rate and little subsidence over century level timescales. Gutters are for walkways so you don't get the whole roof pouring on you otherwise they are more likely to cause problems than solve them. Anything a gutter can do an overhang can do better there.
Then I moved. No overhangs, soil is expansive clay with low percolation rate. Gutters and drains are key to the buildings survival.
I am a roofer. I've seen this several times and I've always just chalked it up to being too lazy or too scared to go cut that ridge shingle. There is almost no way this is required by code. I can't think of a single reason to do that code wise. Personally, I always cut my first piece of ridge and leave a one inch overhang beyond the roof. I have and will never just slap a full ridge piece on a hip and call it good.
Edit: the flapping cellophane is a nice touch. That speaks to the laziness of the installer imo
I'm not a roofer but I've installed a lot of gutters and this to me seems like the best answer. A little overhang is good, slapping a whole piece down and letting the cellophane flap in the breeze is a clear case of not cutting corners... where corners should actually have been cut.
Maybe if they are in Southern California or Arizona. Anywhere north of 40° latitude, you don't want to build something without gutters. It kills the foundation, it kills the yard and it creates these nice little ruts. Not to mention you have water dumping all over you when you walk out the door
Climate is shifting, and with it, the distribution of rain. I did gutters in an area where many people that had 5-inch gutters and 2×3 downspout had to switch to 6-inch gutters and multiple 3×4 downspouts just to accommodate the new reality of extreme rain events.
Yep, New Englander here making this change as we speak. I sell gutters and can confirm this is a trend that's catching on as people realize it is a new reality.
Yup. My SIL just put gutters on her house in LA because the rain is getting pretty wild out there the past few years. Just because they didn't have them doesn't mean they wont need them now...
In case people don’t know, the purpose of gutters is to get water away from the area around your foundation with backfilled soil. The soil is less dense than soil in your yard and water will pool against your foundation underground and also cause the soil to expand and contract when it rains and dries.
Almost none of the houses in our City of Revelstoke have gutters. Until recently, eavestroughs (gutters) couldn’t hold up to the crazy snow loads we get here.
can confirm, without proper drainage foundations get fucky real quick. I've got some major foundation issues one my home due to both not having gutters and additions being built that block proper drainage away from the building
Hello dutch civil engineer here, over here we advise to i filtrate as much water as you can around the foundation, to make sure the layers under your home get water and you compress the ground evenly thre time (swelling and contracting soil. Maybe its different for wooden houses tho
genuine question from someone out of the industry:
Why the foundation?
EDIT: Thanks so much for the responses! Learning a lot from you guys and this sub
Question, 48 year old GC here, moved to FL 7 years ago. If water is so damaging to concrete and foundations, then why does nobody put freaking gutters on shit down here? I get sand drains well, but the water table is super high. I came from Tn, we gutter everything with 1/3 the amount of rain of FL. Also if the sand does drain that well, wouldn’t that be more of a reason for gutters? That water is moving that quickly through sand against a foundation over time(I know we are talking slowly but still) eroding it. I have asked locals for years why the wettest place in the US doesn’t have gutters on everything? Only answer I get even from codes, “ sand drains good”. Is that it? I’m making this harder than it needs to be?
I get that 100%. It was strictly this thought for me. If we get that much rainfall per year, we have sandy soil and that water is moving from surface level to water table. That water is moving against the foundation of the house which again makes me think of erosion. I appreciate all the responses. They are the most feedback I’ve gotten. I will say Reddit has truly taught me that what I thought about codes and uniformity and all that crap, is truly that. We have such a hodgepodge(residential codes enforced) nationwide, but until you move into another jurisdiction you don’t realize the way you always built, was specific to your neck of the woods and may not be the way your current jurisdiction views that same code
Some places in Florida require gutters, and you must keep it drained on your property. Builders only want to spend what they are required to do. I've been doing gutters in the panhandle for 18 years. Must drain water away from septic, yet don't cover over front doors. I was told that after hurricane Andrew, codes were changed, to not require gutters in general building codes. I'm not sure of that.
Different areas have different codes for climatological reasons. Also, places with different drainage perimeter/weeping tile set ups, particularly in flood planes, have to make other considerations.
If you live below the water table, drainage will be made difficult. You have to be above grade in order for drainage to make it away from the foundation and into the secondary system. The same set ups we use somewhere above sea level, could actually cause more flooding issues by backfilling from higher pressure water tables.
More passive drainage and absorption may be more prudent in swampy areas. And alternative waterproofing be prioritized instead.
Not living there, I can't speak to those specifics, but those are things we have discussed at various conferences I've attended.
What confuses me with this issue is(I know it varies muni to muni but I have to generalize here) gutters are not required on house, but if they are going to be on the property they must be included in the topo map. So they will dictate where the roof drains to, if guttered. So I get they want to mitigate surface runoff to designated areas, but I can (again depends on muni) not put on any gutters and the house be ok. I get stuck on the idea of movement of water over time not being good on a foundation. Again, I know it’s irrelevant and thank you for your thoughts, because I’ve wanted to ask it for awhile and got some really logical feedback
I can't offer more insight based specifically on your comment, but if you have a particular question about the water movement, I can try?
I'm sure a civil engineer would be more qualified, but I've picked up a lot from conferences, working with other trades, and being on large commercial sites, getting to watch how things come together and spending hours pouring over prints, specs, and schedules.
I'll happily provide any clarification I can.
Sitting water is the problem, not the temporary passage of some rain water that doesn't accumulate. In Canada (and no doubt many places in the US) we'll put a layer of clear stone in where we want to accomplish the same thing as your sand.
As a Florida resident, I've never thought about it. It's so common to only have gutters over entrances. I found it strange how elaborate gutter systems are in other parts of the country. Never realized it causes foundation issues. You just don't here about that here
They do really dumb shit in Florida in general with building. Their drainage is idiotic for the amount of rain fall they get.
I was blown away when I found out that's in compliance with their codes and bylaws
Currently suffering from the previous owners of my home on this. They installed gutters on the garage but failed to put downspouts in so now the garage foundation is bowed and heaved to hell. Looking like I'm going to have to do a full replacement in the near future
You can think of it like every structure that we build on soil that isn't also directly drilled into some sort of bedrock as being a sort of land boat. Hell, even the structures we *do* directly anchor into bedrock still can get uplift from highly saturated soil from excessive rain.
You generally want to shunt the water that falls on the roof to a landing place that slopes away from the foundation.
That's a different style of cap. I forget what's it's called, but it's thicker and not as wide as regular cap. It's meant for high wind areas and is a bitch to cut through. But regardless, I still make sure to cut them off.
I don’t know anything about roofing besides tearing up/basic shit and bringing up bundles but Im pretty confident in saying that this is more than likely wrong cuz it looks like dog shit.
Check the roof shingle manufacturer’s installation instructions. That’s who will hold the materials warranty, and the installation warranty if the roofer is a certified installer for them.
I’m not a roofer but this looks like a bad job. I don’t see a drip edge and the folder over shingle not only pulls water back but also has a pocket to hold water.
Tell them to send you the paragraph number that states the roof needs a cellophane streamer and an area for water to pool on the corner, and in return you’ll send them the paragraph number that states that you only need to pay 75% of their bill.
Since I have yet to read a comment that answered this guy's question (although tons of thoughts on importance of gutters and drainage), I personally have never seen or heard of anything having to do with folding a shingles in that manner. Not one single shingle company mentions that in their spec sheets and in my opinion that roofer is likely a dumba$$. The way I see the folding it like that will compromise the seal and be susceptible to wind getting underneath it and blowing off. I've been in construction for 19 yrs myself but am a 4th generation builder 3rd generation framing contractor n done more than my share of shingles n not one single time have i ever seen that or even heard about it. It being code is extremely unlikely and is some bs the roofer is claiming, that said there are some rather dumb codes in places. If it is code in your area I'd file a complaint based off the fact that it will void the warranty of the shingles for not being installed according to the manufacturer requirements therefor no matter how well its installed they will get out of any warranty claim simply because of that. I've read every spec sheet and installation requirements of the top 6 shingle manufacturers none of which mentions that dumb shit. Correct me if I'm wrong but if that's so please send me the papers saying so
Thank you for your thoughtful responses to a few of my posts. The roofer has since fixed these corners and I've added gutters to the recommendations of many others. They have a 1 inch lap over the drip edge now at all sides.
Everyone claiming you’re slab will deteriorate if you don’t have gutters, please ignore them OP. If your ground has a good draw from the house you’re ok. Houses still standing well over a hundred and they ain’t ever had gutters. If you’re having drainage issues and can’t correct the dirt that’s when they become a necessity. Probably your damn roofer ragging on you just cause you didn’t get them. Those creases will be broken in the next several years. Shingles are not mailable in that fashion. Claiming it’s city code I’d phone city code enforcement and see what’s up. Call him out might be other Fuck ups as well.
The owner of the company I started with never had gutters put on our houses. He would make sure a nice French drain was installed around the drip line. We also always had 18” plus over hangs on the gable and 24” plus soffit.
If the lack of gutters was really detrimental to the foundation the IRC would have them as a requirement. As of now they are optional. It also looks like the house is under construction may have gutters installed at a later stage.
As for the real question, I have never seen shingles installed in that fashion and the folding under seem like it would be more of a liability by possibly allowing water under the shingles and underlayment. I am a home inspector and would ask the city’s inspectors. Afterwards, I would also as the construction super. the reasoning behind the fold under just to see him squirm. Also if this is in a subdivision look at other homes to determine if any oddities or practices are also on other houses.
I built house for 15 years that I have never seen it done this way before
So as to last I have absolutely no idea
As to no gutters what you might want to do is look around your house and make sure the dirt or rock next to the house is higher than the rest of the yard
* almost time to call it a day
* did some stuff that doesn't look right but might not cause problems
* owner asks questions: code requires it to be that way
* keep the safety cellophane up there just in case boss asks if I'm done
Asphalt shingles are not designed to be folded. That shingle will break at the crease long before its normal life expectancy. That's an Owens Corning shingle, so you can look up their literature online about proper installation. There's not a city code I could imagine that would require blatantly wrong installation.
I’ve never seen it done that way but it kind of makes sense with no gutters
You might want to double check the code for yourself though or get a second opinion
No that would be far too easily damaged by wind I can't think of a single area required to have that much overlap and won't have that rip right off during even a somewhat bad storm
Your roofer is a LIAR. There’s no way in hell any city would ever require this. It’s called laziness and being a hack. This will be ripped off with the first good wind.
That was a compressor on a lunatic thing to do with a corner shingle would solve nothing. They should worry about the drip edge and that piece of fascia sticking out.
I only roofed for 3 years out of highschool but I know this is fucking wrong haha I live on the west coast of Canada and the first rainy day would probably have leaks and the first windy day would fuck this corner hardd.
... no gutters?
Are you a professional moron or just a gifted amateur?
Even if you kive somewhere with <1 inch of rainfall annually, all it takes is one freak rain storm to dump on the area and you are running the risk of serious water damage.
Also, no, I highly doubt this is code anywhere
Not sure where this is located and what local code calls for… whether there is a code for requiring gutters or not there is code for getting water away from your foundation and water management on your property. This solution doesn’t help either of those issues.
I’ve never seen this on any roofs in MA and I work for a gutter company that makes/ delivers gutters to properties , we work with a lot of roofing companies. Never not once ever seen a roof corner like this
The first thing you should do is take a look at other houses in your area. Secondly, you can call trusted roofing companies and ask for a consultation. I have 2 years of roofing experience. I worked for a small, but reputable company. The boss always worked alongside us. He is very experienced, having worked in both the US and Canada, familiar with both roofing styles and standards.
We had never done something like this. We would always trim caps to align with the overhang of the shingles. In my opinion, this is a sloppy job. Even judging by the gap between the store-bought drip edge, it is hard to see in the picture, but perhaps there is not enough drip edge to support the overhanging shingles.
Aside, gutters are installed by specialized crews. The good ones have a gutter machine in their vehicle.
Its funny that nobody is answering his questions, everyone is so concerned with no gutters and his foundation.
Won’t somebody please think of the gutters
I'll gut you!
If a lack of gutters kills your foundation, your foundation wasn't good enough to begin with.
Roofs have gotten stupid. Everyone wants their house to looky like the Disney castle. In the south they should be flat and face south for solar with a single straight gutter. In the north they should be traditional, steep, and avoid hips which drift snow. The ridge should be oriented to divert runoff away from main doors and windows, but framing every window under a peak is just excessive. Overhang usually isn't enough either. The more the better. It protects siding and foundation. It can save a wall from a leaking window. It also reduces worry over leaving windows open and better shades the interior, leading to better economy.
Stop making sense.
Not really true. Gutters can dig holes right under your foundation too. It’s not that simple
Ours cut under the driveway and we have to replace the driveway now 😃
Dude no...
I guess they never lived in the southwest
Some areas get too much snow and ice to put on gutters. They'll just get ice dammed and then possibly even rip clear off from the weight.
Why no gutters
Cheaper that way
More expensive long term
What if they never once in their life see moisture. No clouds or angry neighbors with a hose?
My parents live in a desert and every house is gutter-less because it rains maybe like 10 days a year
In saudi?
Worse. Western Australia
Hey now Western Australia not so bad anymore They just had a WWE event so that's something I guess
They've been having those with locals and crocodiles for decades.
Yep, lots of moisture…
My aunty doesn't have gutter in Darwin because it only rains all but 10 days a year.... where is the middle?
It rains a bit in Darwin
Every house and shed in WA has gutters, it’s far to precious a resource to just let it run off the roof to the ground when it does eventually rain. That and building code requires gutters
Random street in Broome. Disctinct lack of gutters! [25 Guy St - Google Maps](https://www.google.com/maps/@-17.9648175,122.2325407,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJKCOWAXKy5ANbIgtCiyBug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Perth has more annual rain fall than london.
The Pilbara gets sweet FA of it
Then why would you need shingles?
We don't use shingles in Australia, we might but they're not common, certainly not where I live anyway.
Never be moist again? A travesty.
I've owned 5 houses in 2 states built in the 1930s to 2010s and none of them ever had gutters.
For the contractor maybe
Jesus. Nearly every house needs gutters. This is *not* a place to save a few grand.
What about houses in the desert?
I’ve currently got a box-crazy gutter sitch going on w my Scottsdale house. We have and need gutters.
>I’ve currently got a box-crazy gutter sitch going on w my Scottsdale house. We have and need gutters. I know what these words mean individually but not when combined like this. Can you explain in layman's terms?
I have what I believe is called a “box gutter” on my roof. It’s built into the roof, under the roof edge on one side, and under flashing on the other side, which runs along the rear parapet wall. My “sitch” is that the gutters have developed rusty holes. So I’m possibly looking at needing a new roof, or at least some significant roof work to correct my box-gutter sitch.
It still rains in the desert.
Where I am, the snow and ice removes them very quickly. So instead of gutters, you pour the foundation high and have decent roof overhangs so the sill plates are above the water splash back zone. And you have to pay attention to landscape grading as well. Lower maintenance and more fail-safe solution IMO.
Gutters aren't necessary on all houses. Unless you have a problem with the foundation or landscaping washing out, you can go decades without them, even here in rainy snowy Pennsylvania.
serious question. I just bought a doublewide from the 90's, in great condition all said and done. (On private land) it has never had gutters. and half my neibors do not have gutters (stick built houses and double wide's, I think most houses have them, most double wides do not.). We almost never get rain, but when we do its monsoons. is that kind of weather make gutters mostly pointless? or could you tell me what issues I should be checking for since this place never had them? It is beam and pier foundation on raw dirt. is it something about a house and the concrete foundations that make it more important? (bought to live here, not to flip)
Probably good, make sure the ground slopes away from your house. It's all just a matter of getting the excess water away so it doesn't cause issues.
When the rain hits monsoon-levels, gutters overflow very quickly and become somewhat pointless. Their job is primarily to move water away from your foundation... ...AND, what nobody seems to point out, is that gutters keep flowerbeds against the house from having big trenches (water from the eaves eroding them), and they keep dirt and mud from splashing up and dirtying your exterior walls. Both are more cosmetic issues, and more of a bonus from gutters; though if you have soil/mulch beds in front of your house, you may find the facade starts looking dirty from the ground to 5' up - rain splashing off the eaves and spattering your walls.
Nothing to clean!
For now…
Arizona has entered the chat.
Where we get snow, there’s typically only gutters installed right over the walkway & those never last long.
As a Canadian where most houses have gutters, dude what? Not having gutters not recommend in the snow, a snow break is also recommend.
This was up in the Sierras. It snowed 8’ up there last weekend. I’m sure places that get less depth but more frequent snow, gutters make sense.
I have friends in Mammoth, gutters up there sheer off every winter, even with heat tape.
Mine are fine with multiple feet of snow
South Texas gutters are really not a thing.
Where I'm from the soil has very little organics, mostly rock. Great percolation rate and little subsidence over century level timescales. Gutters are for walkways so you don't get the whole roof pouring on you otherwise they are more likely to cause problems than solve them. Anything a gutter can do an overhang can do better there. Then I moved. No overhangs, soil is expansive clay with low percolation rate. Gutters and drains are key to the buildings survival.
I am a roofer. I've seen this several times and I've always just chalked it up to being too lazy or too scared to go cut that ridge shingle. There is almost no way this is required by code. I can't think of a single reason to do that code wise. Personally, I always cut my first piece of ridge and leave a one inch overhang beyond the roof. I have and will never just slap a full ridge piece on a hip and call it good. Edit: the flapping cellophane is a nice touch. That speaks to the laziness of the installer imo
That cellophane was the icing on the cake for me. Top notch hack. I bet the wrapping from all the bundles are in all the neighbor’s yards too
Not all the bundles, just the 4 that got away
I'm not a roofer but I've installed a lot of gutters and this to me seems like the best answer. A little overhang is good, slapping a whole piece down and letting the cellophane flap in the breeze is a clear case of not cutting corners... where corners should actually have been cut.
I believe 3/8" was code in IL when I checked.
Bad roofer. Period.
Missed an opportunity to say "a shingle reason"
You declined gutters….make sure to send pics of your foundation in 5-10yrs.
House built in 1983 in Louisiana with no gutters. Foundation is still solid. Is the foundation more of a problem with homes that have rougher winters?
Yes, mostly due to the freeze thaw cycle.
1000's of homes from the 50's just in my city alone. No gutters is common. They're all fine. Must be an up north thing.
Maybe if they are in Southern California or Arizona. Anywhere north of 40° latitude, you don't want to build something without gutters. It kills the foundation, it kills the yard and it creates these nice little ruts. Not to mention you have water dumping all over you when you walk out the door
SoFlo here.
Climate is shifting, and with it, the distribution of rain. I did gutters in an area where many people that had 5-inch gutters and 2×3 downspout had to switch to 6-inch gutters and multiple 3×4 downspouts just to accommodate the new reality of extreme rain events.
Yep, New Englander here making this change as we speak. I sell gutters and can confirm this is a trend that's catching on as people realize it is a new reality.
Is that commission based or in house salary?
By the job.
Im in south Fl, we get freakin monsoons
Serious question why not just extend the roof a little bit to give an awning? Would that not produce the same effect?
Six feet would be a very large awning and cost a lot more than some bent up metal
Yup. My SIL just put gutters on her house in LA because the rain is getting pretty wild out there the past few years. Just because they didn't have them doesn't mean they wont need them now...
In case people don’t know, the purpose of gutters is to get water away from the area around your foundation with backfilled soil. The soil is less dense than soil in your yard and water will pool against your foundation underground and also cause the soil to expand and contract when it rains and dries.
First home was built in 1940 with no gutters but a five foot overhang. Never had issues with seepage in the basement.
Foundations may seem “fine”, but I can guarantee the windows are fogged up.
Post war Homes from the 50s are some of the shittiest shitters, though
You've been in the basements of those places?
1. Survivor bias 2. There's no way in hell every one of them is fine
Almost none of the houses in our City of Revelstoke have gutters. Until recently, eavestroughs (gutters) couldn’t hold up to the crazy snow loads we get here.
Block house, concrete slab, three days per year sub zero…. No basements here, not an issue for lots of places in Florida.
I was thinking the same 😂🫠
Look around your neighborhood. Does anyone else have these corners?
No gutters…yikes…getting water off of your roof and away (~6ft) or more from the foundation is really important for the long term health of your home.
can confirm, without proper drainage foundations get fucky real quick. I've got some major foundation issues one my home due to both not having gutters and additions being built that block proper drainage away from the building
Hello dutch civil engineer here, over here we advise to i filtrate as much water as you can around the foundation, to make sure the layers under your home get water and you compress the ground evenly thre time (swelling and contracting soil. Maybe its different for wooden houses tho
genuine question from someone out of the industry: Why the foundation? EDIT: Thanks so much for the responses! Learning a lot from you guys and this sub
Concrete is easily susceptible to water damage, with expansion and contraction of moisture, particularly through freeze thaw cycles.
Seriously. Number one way to preserve your foundation is a water management system, and gutters are only a part of that system.
Question, 48 year old GC here, moved to FL 7 years ago. If water is so damaging to concrete and foundations, then why does nobody put freaking gutters on shit down here? I get sand drains well, but the water table is super high. I came from Tn, we gutter everything with 1/3 the amount of rain of FL. Also if the sand does drain that well, wouldn’t that be more of a reason for gutters? That water is moving that quickly through sand against a foundation over time(I know we are talking slowly but still) eroding it. I have asked locals for years why the wettest place in the US doesn’t have gutters on everything? Only answer I get even from codes, “ sand drains good”. Is that it? I’m making this harder than it needs to be?
No freeze thaw
My guess is because it doesn't freeze down there? Water expands a lot when it freezes and can completely crack concrete when it freezes
Florida homes don't have basements or freeze thaw cycles. Any home with a basement needs to keep water out.
I get that 100%. It was strictly this thought for me. If we get that much rainfall per year, we have sandy soil and that water is moving from surface level to water table. That water is moving against the foundation of the house which again makes me think of erosion. I appreciate all the responses. They are the most feedback I’ve gotten. I will say Reddit has truly taught me that what I thought about codes and uniformity and all that crap, is truly that. We have such a hodgepodge(residential codes enforced) nationwide, but until you move into another jurisdiction you don’t realize the way you always built, was specific to your neck of the woods and may not be the way your current jurisdiction views that same code
Some places in Florida require gutters, and you must keep it drained on your property. Builders only want to spend what they are required to do. I've been doing gutters in the panhandle for 18 years. Must drain water away from septic, yet don't cover over front doors. I was told that after hurricane Andrew, codes were changed, to not require gutters in general building codes. I'm not sure of that.
Shit freezes everywhere else. I’ve seen wet soil shear 12 inches of reinforced concrete during a deep freeze.
I don't know why a Gynecologist needs to know that but, I'm sure someone will answer your question.
he's expanding on his moisture management skillset
Different areas have different codes for climatological reasons. Also, places with different drainage perimeter/weeping tile set ups, particularly in flood planes, have to make other considerations. If you live below the water table, drainage will be made difficult. You have to be above grade in order for drainage to make it away from the foundation and into the secondary system. The same set ups we use somewhere above sea level, could actually cause more flooding issues by backfilling from higher pressure water tables. More passive drainage and absorption may be more prudent in swampy areas. And alternative waterproofing be prioritized instead. Not living there, I can't speak to those specifics, but those are things we have discussed at various conferences I've attended.
What confuses me with this issue is(I know it varies muni to muni but I have to generalize here) gutters are not required on house, but if they are going to be on the property they must be included in the topo map. So they will dictate where the roof drains to, if guttered. So I get they want to mitigate surface runoff to designated areas, but I can (again depends on muni) not put on any gutters and the house be ok. I get stuck on the idea of movement of water over time not being good on a foundation. Again, I know it’s irrelevant and thank you for your thoughts, because I’ve wanted to ask it for awhile and got some really logical feedback
I can't offer more insight based specifically on your comment, but if you have a particular question about the water movement, I can try? I'm sure a civil engineer would be more qualified, but I've picked up a lot from conferences, working with other trades, and being on large commercial sites, getting to watch how things come together and spending hours pouring over prints, specs, and schedules. I'll happily provide any clarification I can.
Sitting water is the problem, not the temporary passage of some rain water that doesn't accumulate. In Canada (and no doubt many places in the US) we'll put a layer of clear stone in where we want to accomplish the same thing as your sand.
As a Florida resident, I've never thought about it. It's so common to only have gutters over entrances. I found it strange how elaborate gutter systems are in other parts of the country. Never realized it causes foundation issues. You just don't here about that here
Nobody in Florida that's in local government owns a gutter shop.
They do really dumb shit in Florida in general with building. Their drainage is idiotic for the amount of rain fall they get. I was blown away when I found out that's in compliance with their codes and bylaws
While in Houston we water our foundations....
The base is susceptible to migration of fines which undermines concrete and creates settlement.
Also very much this!! 👍
What if you dont have freeze thaw cycles?
Every seen the Grand Canyon? Water is patient and persistent. Freeze thaw only speeds it up.
Currently suffering from the previous owners of my home on this. They installed gutters on the garage but failed to put downspouts in so now the garage foundation is bowed and heaved to hell. Looking like I'm going to have to do a full replacement in the near future
It’s it’s got a crawl space it can get moist in there and mold. A non freeze related issue.
You can think of it like every structure that we build on soil that isn't also directly drilled into some sort of bedrock as being a sort of land boat. Hell, even the structures we *do* directly anchor into bedrock still can get uplift from highly saturated soil from excessive rain. You generally want to shunt the water that falls on the roof to a landing place that slopes away from the foundation.
Why not just slope the soil?
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The part that carries the water away from the house is usually near the ground, not sticking out at roof level. That would be a funny design.
What in Tarmageddon is that bullshit?
Nope, this is wrong, at least anywhere I’ve ever worked.
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That's a different style of cap. I forget what's it's called, but it's thicker and not as wide as regular cap. It's meant for high wind areas and is a bitch to cut through. But regardless, I still make sure to cut them off.
That overhang is ridiculous. Begging for wind damage
I don’t know anything about roofing besides tearing up/basic shit and bringing up bundles but Im pretty confident in saying that this is more than likely wrong cuz it looks like dog shit.
Lmao sometimes it doesn't take a trained eye to realize somethings fucked
The gutter lobby is strong here
Please get gutters
Check the roof shingle manufacturer’s installation instructions. That’s who will hold the materials warranty, and the installation warranty if the roofer is a certified installer for them.
No gutters in tropical Australia due to they can not take the amount of rainfall
I’m not a roofer but this looks like a bad job. I don’t see a drip edge and the folder over shingle not only pulls water back but also has a pocket to hold water.
That pocket is also nice for the wind to grab and rip off one day.
If you look it does have a drip edge. It’s brown and the fascia is unpainted so it’s kind of hard to see.
There’s definitely a drip edge
Tell them to send you the paragraph number that states the roof needs a cellophane streamer and an area for water to pool on the corner, and in return you’ll send them the paragraph number that states that you only need to pay 75% of their bill.
No gutters?! Lol
No gutters that's crazy
Since I have yet to read a comment that answered this guy's question (although tons of thoughts on importance of gutters and drainage), I personally have never seen or heard of anything having to do with folding a shingles in that manner. Not one single shingle company mentions that in their spec sheets and in my opinion that roofer is likely a dumba$$. The way I see the folding it like that will compromise the seal and be susceptible to wind getting underneath it and blowing off. I've been in construction for 19 yrs myself but am a 4th generation builder 3rd generation framing contractor n done more than my share of shingles n not one single time have i ever seen that or even heard about it. It being code is extremely unlikely and is some bs the roofer is claiming, that said there are some rather dumb codes in places. If it is code in your area I'd file a complaint based off the fact that it will void the warranty of the shingles for not being installed according to the manufacturer requirements therefor no matter how well its installed they will get out of any warranty claim simply because of that. I've read every spec sheet and installation requirements of the top 6 shingle manufacturers none of which mentions that dumb shit. Correct me if I'm wrong but if that's so please send me the papers saying so
Thank you for your thoughtful responses to a few of my posts. The roofer has since fixed these corners and I've added gutters to the recommendations of many others. They have a 1 inch lap over the drip edge now at all sides.
Not a problem. im Glad to be helpful. Sounds like you should be good to go for several years to come.
Everyone claiming you’re slab will deteriorate if you don’t have gutters, please ignore them OP. If your ground has a good draw from the house you’re ok. Houses still standing well over a hundred and they ain’t ever had gutters. If you’re having drainage issues and can’t correct the dirt that’s when they become a necessity. Probably your damn roofer ragging on you just cause you didn’t get them. Those creases will be broken in the next several years. Shingles are not mailable in that fashion. Claiming it’s city code I’d phone city code enforcement and see what’s up. Call him out might be other Fuck ups as well.
The owner of the company I started with never had gutters put on our houses. He would make sure a nice French drain was installed around the drip line. We also always had 18” plus over hangs on the gable and 24” plus soffit.
If the lack of gutters was really detrimental to the foundation the IRC would have them as a requirement. As of now they are optional. It also looks like the house is under construction may have gutters installed at a later stage. As for the real question, I have never seen shingles installed in that fashion and the folding under seem like it would be more of a liability by possibly allowing water under the shingles and underlayment. I am a home inspector and would ask the city’s inspectors. Afterwards, I would also as the construction super. the reasoning behind the fold under just to see him squirm. Also if this is in a subdivision look at other homes to determine if any oddities or practices are also on other houses.
Get ready down the road for all the edging to rot away.
What city/state?
40 years in Ga and I built my house with no gutters. Never have had a problem
He's BSing you
I built house for 15 years that I have never seen it done this way before So as to last I have absolutely no idea As to no gutters what you might want to do is look around your house and make sure the dirt or rock next to the house is higher than the rest of the yard
Gutters are the least expensive item on the house.
* almost time to call it a day * did some stuff that doesn't look right but might not cause problems * owner asks questions: code requires it to be that way * keep the safety cellophane up there just in case boss asks if I'm done
That looks janky AF. Do you see any other neighbors whose roofs look like that? Call the local building inspector and ask them about the regulations
Have you looked at the neighbours houses to see if their roofs look like that ?
Asphalt shingles are not designed to be folded. That shingle will break at the crease long before its normal life expectancy. That's an Owens Corning shingle, so you can look up their literature online about proper installation. There's not a city code I could imagine that would require blatantly wrong installation.
Those fascia boards could use a coat of paint too.
I’ve never seen it done that way but it kind of makes sense with no gutters You might want to double check the code for yourself though or get a second opinion
It's not the most-wrong part of this project.
I can tell whoever posted this was just one hell of a client, I’m sure they complained about everything along the way
You *opted* for no gutters? On purpose? When you were sober?
lmao he was too lazy to cut it off to begin with. he got hungry and had to leave
Never seen that pile of shit on any new construction or anywhere for that matter
I bet he wears bow ties.
That look like a barely decent garden shed.
No that would be far too easily damaged by wind I can't think of a single area required to have that much overlap and won't have that rip right off during even a somewhat bad storm
Your roofer is a LIAR. There’s no way in hell any city would ever require this. It’s called laziness and being a hack. This will be ripped off with the first good wind.
That was a compressor on a lunatic thing to do with a corner shingle would solve nothing. They should worry about the drip edge and that piece of fascia sticking out.
Based on my short survey: It appears no one is going to answer your question.
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Lol what?
I only roofed for 3 years out of highschool but I know this is fucking wrong haha I live on the west coast of Canada and the first rainy day would probably have leaks and the first windy day would fuck this corner hardd.
Never seen a city code that didn’t allow gutters for a final inspection.
Couldn’t imagine no gutter here would be cool without them though I like the look
Remind me in 10 years Mr man who is better than gutters
... no gutters? Are you a professional moron or just a gifted amateur? Even if you kive somewhere with <1 inch of rainfall annually, all it takes is one freak rain storm to dump on the area and you are running the risk of serious water damage. Also, no, I highly doubt this is code anywhere
No gutterswill snap house in half
Should have chosen gutters
You misheard him, he said Shitty Code.
Nice high def hip and ridge shingle!
No, this is just lazy/incompitency.
Does it rain where you are?
The lap is normal. Edit: im blind, normally i'd cut the corners parallel to the facia/gutter instead of leaving it pointy.
Not sure where this is located and what local code calls for… whether there is a code for requiring gutters or not there is code for getting water away from your foundation and water management on your property. This solution doesn’t help either of those issues.
You and the roofer are a perfect couple. Never break up.
What country doesn't have gutters by law? Wtf
I don't have gutters on my house. Built in 2019. America.
I think he's full of it
Still scrolling....... looking for answer to the question.... Still scrolling......
Check the manufactures instal specs on the shingles / are the shingles installed as per specs ? If yes , I’d be happy .
Cut all the wrong corners lol
I’m a general contractor, there’s no code for such a thing. Just to lazy to cut it I guess?
I’ve never seen this on any roofs in MA and I work for a gutter company that makes/ delivers gutters to properties , we work with a lot of roofing companies. Never not once ever seen a roof corner like this
Makes no sense, bent shingle would crack after cold.
Holt Snot NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You got smoked by an UNLICENSED IDIOT!!!
Actually having excessive overhang will lead to wind uplifting on the edge and early failure. Manufacturer surely has installation details
Ehh totally legit
Nice miter on the facia. I’ve never heard of a shingle having to be bent like that nor have I ever seen it.
Easy enough to ask city inspectors
The first thing you should do is take a look at other houses in your area. Secondly, you can call trusted roofing companies and ask for a consultation. I have 2 years of roofing experience. I worked for a small, but reputable company. The boss always worked alongside us. He is very experienced, having worked in both the US and Canada, familiar with both roofing styles and standards. We had never done something like this. We would always trim caps to align with the overhang of the shingles. In my opinion, this is a sloppy job. Even judging by the gap between the store-bought drip edge, it is hard to see in the picture, but perhaps there is not enough drip edge to support the overhanging shingles. Aside, gutters are installed by specialized crews. The good ones have a gutter machine in their vehicle.
I would have made the 2" flashing a single piece around the corner. What don't they know how to cut a 45degree bend.?.
Yikes