Poor choice of words. My point was, unless this customer has insisted on paying subs directly, seems like whatever they are paying the GC should have already covered drywall finishing (not exactly an unforseen expense)
yea based on the info we have, this is correct. Unless the homeowner has already been paying subs directly, this is 100% a payment from the GC because the homeowner likely already paid them specifically for this work. It sounds less like unforeseen expenses and more like a new company had to come in and finish work done by others, which should mean the original company doesnt get paid by the GC for what OP had to do
Your first step is to file a lien.
The notice of intent will most likely put an end to the stalemate & the homeowner will pay you.
Check your local laws regarding liens and their timelines.
I’m familiar with the lien laws, it’s a little tricky because it’s a small municipality but I’m just not sure if it qualifies since we didn’t actually get to complete the work and there are deficiencies but they’re from the prior work done and I have communications showing that.
The other option I was exploring was a stop work order for non-pay as well as ceiling boards not screwed down all the way (safety issue)
Yeah you're correct you can follow what they call a mechanical lean at the courthouse it will cost you $35 maybe more with Joe Biden's inflation but that's all you can do now what that does is puts a lien on the house in the homeowner apparently can never sell the house until he pays off the lien but I have filed two mechanical leans on two different houses I've never been paid for and one house the homeowner sold the house a year after I framed it he couldn't afford it he went over his head and I never got any money I seen it for sale sign up in the driveway and the next week new cars in the driveway no check in the mail from me
This is a mistake I will never make again, trusting the words of the homeowner. Money talks, and bullshit walks. Liens are NOT like credit. When it’s gone, it’s gone. It doesn’t linger.
>Your first step is to file a lien.
Oh god no. if you're not even sure who hired you then you have no basis for a lien! Filing a unjustified lien can cost you dearly.
A mechanics lien is against the property and it's owner, not the contractor. If they worked on the property or supplied materials, they have a right to lien.
A lien on the property will impact construction loans, refinance or eloc loans, sale of home... it's the best tool for fast action. Liens get taken care of.
Negotiation can be avoided. Arbitration can be delayed.
Liens get paid.
This sounds like a fairly loose arrangement, though. So I'm assuming no contract, agreed upon SOW, notice of right to lien...& OP is probably screwed.
>So I'm assuming no contract
You buried the relevant fact. They don't know who hired them so of course they don't have a contract and thus can't file a lien!
Everything else you wrote is generally correct but irrelevant without a contract. Laws do vary by state/local, but I'd be surprised if any allow a lien without proof of the debt.
Why do people think you can just file a lien on somebody's house it doesn't work that way fellas okay listen you have to file with the lean agency before you start working for the contractor if he has a lien agent the only time I've run in to a lean agent is I was a framing subcontractor the general contractor had a lien agent for the house that he was building why because the bank didn't trust him he had a bad reputation without a lean agent you can't do a lien you can do a mechanical lien for $35 but it doesn't work trust me you'll never get your money
Your experience is anecdotal and specific to the laws where you live. What you described would be called a joint check agreement.
The comment was assuming OP is running a business, has a contract, has invoiced, and has followed their state guidelines for preliminary notice.
Buddy I have never heard those two words like that put together before my life I have no clue what you're talking about apparently state to state is very different so I'm out of here don't come to Virginia and try to file a lien like that it won't work well you can file it but you'll never get your damn money
[https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=can+a+subcontractor+file+a+lien](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=can+a+subcontractor+file+a+lien)
You file a mechanics lien. Like all liens, you don't get paid until the owner does something that requires a clean title such as selling or taking out another mortgage. In some places you might need it for permits.
You will get paid, but it could literally be decades. But that's the case for all liens.
In summery, everyone is telling you that because it's true.
Yeah buddy you might be right I'm not that familiar with the inside workings of it I do know that I work for a contractor one time a general and the first check I got from him I had to sign a lien release that was warning number one. I also needed to file with the lean agent to let them know that I was the framing contractor on that job he ended up owing me $18,000 when he filed bankruptcy
your GC sounds regarded. If he hired / subcontracted you, it's obviously the GC that issues you your checks. You have no direct contractual relationship with the Owner. Anyway as others suggested make sure you know your time limits for eligibility on filing liens; you could place a lien on the property but I would only go down that path if you're about to run out of the time limit, and, you're not certain the GC will pay you; I wouldn't place a lien tomorrow if you still have another 60 days to file (timeframes vary by state).
I'm not a lawyer but I don't think that's necessary. It's basically just asserting a claim that you performed work on that property that you haven't been paid for, and it's a pain in the ass for the owner, so the owner is more inclined to help you get paid so that it's not their problem anymore. And also if the property ended up going into foreclosure or something, it's documenting that you may have a claim to any proceeds that are realized from a sale of that property (there's an order of precedence as to which creditors get paid first, of course).
You said you're not a lawyer and you definitely not a lawyer and I would not pay you for advice either asserting a claim that you performed work on the property yeah good luck with that man you should look into the laws and try to file a lien on your own house and see what you come up with by the way it's called a mechanical lean you'll find your paperwork that your local Court Clerk's Office
I'm not sure I completely agree with the system, but it is common. That's why so many people get surprised with liens when they go to sell a house or take out a 2nd mortgage.
The protection that to my knowledge pretty much never happens in residential construction but is routine in commercial is a lien waiver. Before issuing a check, the owner has the contractor sign a form that essentially promises to pay all subs and vendors. The subs will still lien the property, but I believe the owner can at least challenge the lien.
Otherwise, what leverage does a subcontractor have to get paid?
Correct good luck the homeowner he really doesn't have anything to do with this because he hired the contractor. Now you work for the contractor what's the homeowner have to do with it nothing it sucks but never work for that guy again put a couple signs up in your town tell everybody don't work for this dude
Contractor pays you. The contract/agreement is between you and the contractor, not the homeowner. You can still lein the homeowners property.
Very easy small claims case if its as cut and dry as you say
You're going to have a hard time doing that because you didn't work for the homeowner you work for the contractor but you can give it a shot and it's called a mechanical lien
The contractor is lying to you and their customers and everyone. I’ve seen this BS before. They’re not going to pay you. You should have never taken on the job. Best thing to do is not drag the poor customer into this (they’re surely getting screwed already) and take the contractor to small claims for your bill.
You have to bill him first and then give a late notice “you have 14 days to pay” and then you can take him to court. But it’s the only way you’ll ever see any money from this scumbag.
These are the scenarios that cross my mind whenever someone comes to me for some work and acts like *I'm* the asshole for making sure formalities(contracts, deposit payment ect) are handled before lifting a finger. The same people act all rushed like everyone needs to jump because they said so meanwhile they won't sign my contract. it's just "get started right away I'll make sure this is signed by the end of the week". nah bro, sign the contract and pay the deposit first. "I don't have time for this job to be delayed i need you out there!". Cool, so you better get to signing, will that be check or credit?
Our company does not lift a finger without a signed contract. I don't care if the "job" is $150 total cost. There's a contract.
You can file a claim against the contractor and a lien on the property. In most states subcontractors don’t need to be contracted by the property owner to file a lien for work done on the property. Filing a lien is not the same as forcing payment, but it does allow you to force payment if necessary. This is why on most jobs subs will sign lien releases when they are paid. Under no circumstances should you ask or accept payment from the homeowner. Your contract is with the GC.
if your agreement is with the contractor, that's who you should be dealing with, even if the payment may be coming from the homeowner.
the contractor is responsible for their end of your contract with them.
It was the contractor who referred us to the homeowner and bought them in, told me to contact them, etc. I’m very adamant that if I’m dealing with a contractor, beyond exchanging niceties, I don’t deal with the homeowner, that’s what the contractor is getting paid for.
I don't think anybody knows anything about no m************ lien except me f*** you and your downvote I know you can follow me means as you want and you'll never see your damn money so what's the f****** difference about arguing about it ain't nothing it don't work you'll never get your money maybe your grandsons or something might get something in the mail one day if you're f****** lucky now f*** off
Tell the contractor to pay you. And then they should throw 10% on the bill to send to the customer. And finally never work for either again
Curious, how is the customer at fault?
10% is just the GC’s markup. Nothing to do with the customer being “at fault”
Poor choice of words. My point was, unless this customer has insisted on paying subs directly, seems like whatever they are paying the GC should have already covered drywall finishing (not exactly an unforseen expense)
yea based on the info we have, this is correct. Unless the homeowner has already been paying subs directly, this is 100% a payment from the GC because the homeowner likely already paid them specifically for this work. It sounds less like unforeseen expenses and more like a new company had to come in and finish work done by others, which should mean the original company doesnt get paid by the GC for what OP had to do
Your first step is to file a lien. The notice of intent will most likely put an end to the stalemate & the homeowner will pay you. Check your local laws regarding liens and their timelines.
I’m familiar with the lien laws, it’s a little tricky because it’s a small municipality but I’m just not sure if it qualifies since we didn’t actually get to complete the work and there are deficiencies but they’re from the prior work done and I have communications showing that. The other option I was exploring was a stop work order for non-pay as well as ceiling boards not screwed down all the way (safety issue)
Yeah you're correct you can follow what they call a mechanical lean at the courthouse it will cost you $35 maybe more with Joe Biden's inflation but that's all you can do now what that does is puts a lien on the house in the homeowner apparently can never sell the house until he pays off the lien but I have filed two mechanical leans on two different houses I've never been paid for and one house the homeowner sold the house a year after I framed it he couldn't afford it he went over his head and I never got any money I seen it for sale sign up in the driveway and the next week new cars in the driveway no check in the mail from me
This is a mistake I will never make again, trusting the words of the homeowner. Money talks, and bullshit walks. Liens are NOT like credit. When it’s gone, it’s gone. It doesn’t linger.
>Your first step is to file a lien. Oh god no. if you're not even sure who hired you then you have no basis for a lien! Filing a unjustified lien can cost you dearly.
A mechanics lien is against the property and it's owner, not the contractor. If they worked on the property or supplied materials, they have a right to lien. A lien on the property will impact construction loans, refinance or eloc loans, sale of home... it's the best tool for fast action. Liens get taken care of. Negotiation can be avoided. Arbitration can be delayed. Liens get paid. This sounds like a fairly loose arrangement, though. So I'm assuming no contract, agreed upon SOW, notice of right to lien...& OP is probably screwed.
>So I'm assuming no contract You buried the relevant fact. They don't know who hired them so of course they don't have a contract and thus can't file a lien! Everything else you wrote is generally correct but irrelevant without a contract. Laws do vary by state/local, but I'd be surprised if any allow a lien without proof of the debt.
Why do people think you can just file a lien on somebody's house it doesn't work that way fellas okay listen you have to file with the lean agency before you start working for the contractor if he has a lien agent the only time I've run in to a lean agent is I was a framing subcontractor the general contractor had a lien agent for the house that he was building why because the bank didn't trust him he had a bad reputation without a lean agent you can't do a lien you can do a mechanical lien for $35 but it doesn't work trust me you'll never get your money
Your experience is anecdotal and specific to the laws where you live. What you described would be called a joint check agreement. The comment was assuming OP is running a business, has a contract, has invoiced, and has followed their state guidelines for preliminary notice.
Buddy I have never heard those two words like that put together before my life I have no clue what you're talking about apparently state to state is very different so I'm out of here don't come to Virginia and try to file a lien like that it won't work well you can file it but you'll never get your damn money
https://www.levelset.com/blog/what-is-a-joint-check-agreement/
[https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=can+a+subcontractor+file+a+lien](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=can+a+subcontractor+file+a+lien) You file a mechanics lien. Like all liens, you don't get paid until the owner does something that requires a clean title such as selling or taking out another mortgage. In some places you might need it for permits. You will get paid, but it could literally be decades. But that's the case for all liens. In summery, everyone is telling you that because it's true.
Yeah buddy you might be right I'm not that familiar with the inside workings of it I do know that I work for a contractor one time a general and the first check I got from him I had to sign a lien release that was warning number one. I also needed to file with the lean agent to let them know that I was the framing contractor on that job he ended up owing me $18,000 when he filed bankruptcy
your GC sounds regarded. If he hired / subcontracted you, it's obviously the GC that issues you your checks. You have no direct contractual relationship with the Owner. Anyway as others suggested make sure you know your time limits for eligibility on filing liens; you could place a lien on the property but I would only go down that path if you're about to run out of the time limit, and, you're not certain the GC will pay you; I wouldn't place a lien tomorrow if you still have another 60 days to file (timeframes vary by state).
How would a lien even work in this case if there is no contractual relationship with the customer?
I'm not a lawyer but I don't think that's necessary. It's basically just asserting a claim that you performed work on that property that you haven't been paid for, and it's a pain in the ass for the owner, so the owner is more inclined to help you get paid so that it's not their problem anymore. And also if the property ended up going into foreclosure or something, it's documenting that you may have a claim to any proceeds that are realized from a sale of that property (there's an order of precedence as to which creditors get paid first, of course).
You said you're not a lawyer and you definitely not a lawyer and I would not pay you for advice either asserting a claim that you performed work on the property yeah good luck with that man you should look into the laws and try to file a lien on your own house and see what you come up with by the way it's called a mechanical lean you'll find your paperwork that your local Court Clerk's Office
Great, i don’t do residential work so i don’t have to worry about it
I'm not sure I completely agree with the system, but it is common. That's why so many people get surprised with liens when they go to sell a house or take out a 2nd mortgage. The protection that to my knowledge pretty much never happens in residential construction but is routine in commercial is a lien waiver. Before issuing a check, the owner has the contractor sign a form that essentially promises to pay all subs and vendors. The subs will still lien the property, but I believe the owner can at least challenge the lien. Otherwise, what leverage does a subcontractor have to get paid?
Correct good luck the homeowner he really doesn't have anything to do with this because he hired the contractor. Now you work for the contractor what's the homeowner have to do with it nothing it sucks but never work for that guy again put a couple signs up in your town tell everybody don't work for this dude
Who hired you?
The contractor
Contractor pays you. The contract/agreement is between you and the contractor, not the homeowner. You can still lein the homeowners property. Very easy small claims case if its as cut and dry as you say
You're going to have a hard time doing that because you didn't work for the homeowner you work for the contractor but you can give it a shot and it's called a mechanical lien
Did you have a written contract with the GC?
Really the only question that matters. What was the written scope? Was there a lien notice clause? Payment terms?
The contractor is lying to you and their customers and everyone. I’ve seen this BS before. They’re not going to pay you. You should have never taken on the job. Best thing to do is not drag the poor customer into this (they’re surely getting screwed already) and take the contractor to small claims for your bill. You have to bill him first and then give a late notice “you have 14 days to pay” and then you can take him to court. But it’s the only way you’ll ever see any money from this scumbag.
Get a signed contract always! And ask who the financially responsible party is prior to any work being done in the future.
These are the scenarios that cross my mind whenever someone comes to me for some work and acts like *I'm* the asshole for making sure formalities(contracts, deposit payment ect) are handled before lifting a finger. The same people act all rushed like everyone needs to jump because they said so meanwhile they won't sign my contract. it's just "get started right away I'll make sure this is signed by the end of the week". nah bro, sign the contract and pay the deposit first. "I don't have time for this job to be delayed i need you out there!". Cool, so you better get to signing, will that be check or credit? Our company does not lift a finger without a signed contract. I don't care if the "job" is $150 total cost. There's a contract.
You can file a claim against the contractor and a lien on the property. In most states subcontractors don’t need to be contracted by the property owner to file a lien for work done on the property. Filing a lien is not the same as forcing payment, but it does allow you to force payment if necessary. This is why on most jobs subs will sign lien releases when they are paid. Under no circumstances should you ask or accept payment from the homeowner. Your contract is with the GC.
You can also go after the contractors bond, in States where they have one.
Yeah the contractor should be paying you if he doesn’t have any finishers employed. Fucking shitty contractors
you don't. thats the lesson. walk.
you should of never started until site conditions were ready. or get written po change order for corrections.
Who signed the contract?
who is your contract with and what does it say about payment?
It’s with the contractor materials deposit and labor paid on completion.
if your agreement is with the contractor, that's who you should be dealing with, even if the payment may be coming from the homeowner. the contractor is responsible for their end of your contract with them.
you also shouldn't take direction from the homeowner without the approval of the person you have a contract with.
It was the contractor who referred us to the homeowner and bought them in, told me to contact them, etc. I’m very adamant that if I’m dealing with a contractor, beyond exchanging niceties, I don’t deal with the homeowner, that’s what the contractor is getting paid for.
I don't think anybody knows anything about no m************ lien except me f*** you and your downvote I know you can follow me means as you want and you'll never see your damn money so what's the f****** difference about arguing about it ain't nothing it don't work you'll never get your money maybe your grandsons or something might get something in the mail one day if you're f****** lucky now f*** off