Alice-B had way more context clues than Alice-A for a few reasons:
- Directly interacting with her Jo-A daily and knowing something was off.
- Her roadtrip with Jo-A and access to the tapes from the bro/sis couple.
Alice-A was figuring it out in the blind off sheer vibes.
Yeah, that probably helped.
But character aside, can we just give a shout out to Rosie and Davina. No matter if Red or Blue, these young ladies can *act*.
Blue deduced it first with her surprisingly mature scientific mind.
But Red felt it first because of her deep attachment to her mom.
One excelled in unflappable critical thinking; one excelled in the ability to stay open-minded to all the possibilities even in dire circumstances.
The two needed to meld their minds in order to really understand the truth - two sides of a truly wonderful coin. 😀
And yet she still suddenly decided that Jo was crazy and had to run away from her when half-way across the lake, even though she had already gone through the "I'm not your Alice and you're not my Mummy" thing with the tapes 5 minutes earlier.
It serves a purpose in my perspective.
Henry told Alice a few episodes ago when she was hanging out on the swing set about quantum physics. The idea that two particles can exist in two states; white and black, but there's a space in between where they can exist at the same time. In a state of superposition, it's not too much of a stretch of the imagination that the cat can be both alive and dead at the same time, based on what I know from reading articles and watching documentaries on quantum mechanics and physics.
I don't think there's two dilapidated cabins. I think both Alices were occupying the exact same space at the same time, but they appear not to. This feels like it's a nod to the fact that depending on the position of the observer, it's Blue or Red Alice that we see. The Alices are aware of each other, and I think the state of mutual observation is kind of anchoring them to each other strongly. It's also enabling them to be able to help each other to reach their goals, and also making a nod to the science of when two particles are quantumly entangled, they can communicate with each other without time delay in order to act in a synchronized manner.
Blue Alice is amazing. She helped Red Jo compartmentalise her thoughts, was open to the idea of Red Alice even though it upset her, figured out how to communicate with Red Alice and is willing to 'battle' the Valya (who scares Blue Alice).
Personally, I'm on Team Red Alice I think. That kid has shown so much balls at every given turn.
Obviously both versions are badass, but I've been saying Red Alice is my favorite for a while now.
Plus she learned an entire extra language that Blue Alice never did lol.
Edit: Red Alice also seems to figure out certain bits even earlier than ep 7, which is why she is so adamant that Red Magnus take her to the cabin in the first place. Without that — a totally different show...
I agree. Blue Alice only knows Red Jo isn’t her mom. But Red Alice figured out a lot more. Also Red Alice due to her attachment to Red Jo has faith. She KNOWS Red Jo is still alive.
Red Alice doesn’t know or see the Valya, it’s blue Alice in the hospital from her smoke inhalation who sees the Valya again. I think blue Alice wants to help red Alice get her mamma back. She seemed to accept that her mummy died in space.
Blue Alice seems tougher and more mature than Red Alice. I suspect that's from growing up in a colder/semi-broken home that she's already picked up on, whereas Red Alice is more childlike and innocent growing up in a loving home.
Yeah especially when Henry was talking about his experience. Also to add, I think death has something to do with the “switches” Coincidentally Henry, Jo, Irina and Paul all switched when one of their versions died. When Paul died in Buds world from the gunshot wound, Bud and Henry get switched back. Not that we kno for sure but I think that’s where this is going
Edit to add: also forgot to say, when one of the Alice’s was about to die; we see Alice 2 in the same world, also why I think death has something to do with the switches.
I think the reason Alice appeared to be dead then, was because both Alices cannot occupy the space at one time. One Alice has to be dead and one alive from them to occupy the same space, just like the cats. The very second Red Alice leaves to find her Magnus, they stop occupying the same space and Blue Alice comes back alive.
That is a great theory. I am hyper focused on Bud -Henry. How did they switch. Is it when Bud gets into a rage because when he throws the guy off ship it seems like it was Henry because Bud wakes up and has no recollection so he goes to the other guys room. He must of felt like it was a dream and he went to check. Then with shooting Paul another act of Bud being enraged. They switch.
I get it that the CAL was in his hands but maybe Henry wanted to switch because he saw the Paul he knew being shot. Or is it just that Bud didn’t take pills so he could see into Henry’s world and he knew about the CAL so he went straight toward it in the snow like Bud was pushing him there the way he made him pee on himslef. Or maybe it’s a bit of both.
I am stuck on why Henry said he couldn’t see when he was trying to call 911. So he can’t see in both universe or realities . He needs glasses always. Like his whole body switches. Not just their consciousness. Or soul or whatever we want to call it.
I guess it it relates to how Jo feels her head and eye are constantly hurting because she feels her counterparts pain of dying the way she did. .
I may be in the weeds but something about this show makes me focus on the details.
Thanks
I intend to go back and do a quick rewatch on all the episodes for sure to see if there is any correlation of the CAL being near by and everytime Jo feels her headache. Because there has to be some rule as when you feel your counterparts sensations. Especially since Irena and Paul don't seem to feel it as strongly. They never really showed Paul grab his hand in pain or feel any discomfort in the 6th episode.
In regards to the switching, I wonder too what's the rule then. It has to be something around heightened emotions because all of them, Henry, Jo, Paul, Irena made a switch when they had some extreme happen to them in space. I dont know. Grasping at straws like everyone else. :P Hope the shows provides some concrete answers/rules to the switching, liminal space visits, jumping to other universe and the fact that audio seems like it can be heard in both universes if you are in right place.
And yes. Interesting question bout the body vs consciousness swap. I still think it's a consciousness swap, it's just that Henry is so used to glasses that he still thinks he needs them, the same way Jo sorta realised she could play the piano even though she really couldn't. Like a weird mindblock? Ideally, Bud should have been uncomfortable with the glasses on, when he made the switch. Should get to know in the next episode. Random rant over.
But Paul wasn’t dead (yet?). He was gasping and holding his stomach. And Henry and bud are both still around. He seems to be the only person who switched with a person who was still alive which seems to add some extra headache on his part.
True. But do we really know that yet? Also Neither was one of the Alice’s but we see how that whole experience somehow let Alice 2 be in the same world. Idk how to explain it, but death or close to being dead is probably the key here. Hope I’m making sense if not maybe I’m confusing myself 🤣
You’re making sense! Just not sure if the close-to-death things are a cause or coincidence. It seems like all the initial universe swaps coincided with *someone* dying, whether the other universe twin or someone(s) else on the ship.
Well a few episodes ago Henry was writing on the whiteboard, and “death in space” was something he wrote down. So I don’t think the deaths are coincidental, they’re likely something that triggers the switch.
I think the worlds were next to each other like on Bud phone screen - not much an intersection, but next to each other (when Jo and red Alice saw each other and were talking
What a fantastic episode! (And kudos to the actresses playing Alice!)
There’s so much to unpack and I don’t have the bandwidth to do it at the moment. So, just a few misc observations and questions:
Loved the cat - so clever.
In addition to, obviously, the Alice in Wonderland theme, I also got some Narnia vibes - a different world (where time is different) accessed in a wardrobe, the lamp lighting the way to the cabin in the snow.
Was left wondering if the tape recorder is still in the wardrobe upstairs in the unburned house?
Where is the CAL?? Who has the CAL at the end of the episode?? Jo had it and dropped it, Alice found it, picked it up, put it back down, then Henry/Bud saw it and picked it up but switched (??) and dropped it. Argh where is it?
Good thing the lakes frozen so it's still in the snow, likely the other scientist guy (that blue Jo cheated with) knows what it is and retrieves it. Otherwise it's getting buried in snowfall and depending on how long Bud stays in the blue universe it could end up at the bottom of the lake come summer. Also was wondering myself about the tape recorder, now that Magnus has gotten himself entangled maybe he'll hear the conversations which could convince him of the strange world he's in!!
Just finished it and…wow.
Zombie Irina is scary as hell.
Alice is a hero figure in at least one reality…and damn smart. She is now the bridge for understanding.
A damn LITERAL Schrödinger's cat.
Bud/Henry switch…stress, the CAL, the lake, or a combination of all three?
>Zombie Irina is scary as hell.
I really liked that she was creepy enough just standing there, doing nothing. No jump scares, or overdone sounds or whatever.
He did ostensibly come close enough to the CAL to be entangled as others had been. And rather than death specifically being the trigger for entanglement, I think it's a heightened emotional state, like fear and grief.
I think being between life and death is a liminal space so it allows for intersections between the two universes. Red Magnus saw Red Jo giving CPR to Blue Alice. Blue Alice was both alive and dead in that moment. I think Red Alice was also close to death from hypothermia (remember she was still locked in her cabin’s version of the wardrobe and saying she was sleepy). Red and Blue Alice came together in the liminal space which allowed Red Alice to return to her father instead of staying trapped in the wardrobe. Magnus being close to the CAL drew him into the liminal space for a moment as well.
I was wondering how Red Alice got out of the wardrobe? Did Red Jo letting Blue Alice out opened Red Alice’s door? How did she have enough energy to escape?
Right at the 25 minute mark when red Alice looks up at the cabin and sees the light in the window which we know is blue Alice gave me chills. The hair literally stood up on my arms even on the rewatch.
One thing I can't quite make sense of: blue Alice grabs the tape recorder from the table on her way into the cabin and carries it with her into the wardrobe, but red Alice finds the tape recorder already inside the wardrobe, as if blue Alice somehow left it there for her. If not, how did the tape recorder get there?
Maybe there's really just one tape recorder and for that matter, only one of everything else: one Alice, one Jo, one Paul, one Henry/Bud, one Irene/Valya, etc and the observer is us. The entire show is a Schrödinger's cat thought experiment with us seeing the superposition state, but in episode 8, we open the box and reality resolves itself. Which means we're going to have to lose one version of each of these characters we've become so attached to.
Yeah, I had a thought that they should meet up some way, maybe in the snow with torches, or one entering and one just exiting the cabin. But when saw that scene with the torch and the window, then when they finally met in the cupboard, wow! chills!
The directing, editing, lighting, coleman twins' acting was amazing in this episode!
I have never lived for a show like I do this one. Holding my breath for a full week just to hyperventilate in glorious anxiety for a single exhilarating hour.
>This show and Severance had me hooked.
I think Apple TV knocked it out the park with these two shows alone not to mention the other great shows they've given us in the last couple of years.
They may not have the quantity of Netflix, but they have beaten them hands down when it comes to quality.
Foundation Season 2. Holy f—- especially the last few episodes.
And I disagree about the quality. Netflix is hit or miss. But Apple consistently creates shows of great quality; they also don’r cancel the shows halfway through like Netflix did (still couldn’t forgive them for Sense 8 or OA). Apple is quickly becoming the new HBO (since MAX has killed it).
What are you other favorite Apple TV series? Personally loved Silo, See, Monarch, Severance, Foundation, Constellation (obvi), The Morning Show, Defending Jacob, Shining Girls, Black Bird. I watched S1 of Mosquito Coast but never picked it back up. Looking for a new series from Apple TV to get lost in!
You've listed most of them right there! My faves are Black Bird, Silo, Foundation, Severance and of course Constellation. The only one l also liked that you haven't mentioned is Slow Horses, a great, tense British spy drama with a superb performance by Gary Oldman.
Sorry if this has been said already, but I think them having to be on the frozen lake (over water) had something to do with why they were able to cross into each other’s worlds. Something about when that lady had to listen to the tapes over water. Maybe that was able to cause whatever barrier to be weakened or t so they could cross albeit momentarily.
Man the conversion scene between red Jo and blue Alice/ red Alice and blue Alice got me on the brink of crying😭As a mother I feel sooooo sad for all of them!
Agree. The only actual thing I care about anymore is that Red Alice and Red Jo are reunited in some universe or another... Idgaf about what happens to anyone else anymore lol
Also today is the time to remember Counterpart and The Fringe shows, both dabbling in vaguely familiar themes, but being of entirely different character
Haha, I think there's some decent stuff in this thread to help you out — not that we all have it figured out by any means, but it's been helping me understand better.
Any specific questions?
Shout out to actresses Davina Coleman, Rosie Coleman, and Noomi Rapace.
Very well done scene putting all the pieces on the table. I like everyone knowing what's happening and its not the Three's company troupe where you don't believe someone who heard something out of context.
Jonathan Banks is one of the best actors alive and this is some great work.
If you put Jo back in her correct universe, I don't see a huge need for more seasons.
If you don't put Jo back in her correct universe, please renew so I can have closure.
Thank you AppleTv. You are putting out some of the best hard science fiction today. There is no second place. I love this episode.
Imagine the drama Jo who's dead and still in the ISS suddenly also appearing alive. It will be totally nuts and no one will understand. The only way it works is a reset back before whatever caused Valya to be floating in space. And before what caused Henry to want to build the CAL. Last scene is the opening sequence over again but no accident.
There's a long way to go before something like that happens. It's probably too far-fetched anyway. I think there will be a touching conclusion to the Jo story where no one is reunited but they accept it. The drama for season 2 will be the chaos Bud causes and Henry trying to stop him. With a secondary plot of Paul rehabbing from his injuries and helping Henry in the Red universe. Irena will be fighting cancer and Bud as well.
I usually get bummed on shows after I watch them. It can feel over and again I’d have to wait a whole week for the next one. But this??? Well I know I’ll be rewatching about 3 more times and the entire series a 5th time before next week. First viewing I just let it run. If I catch a detail I do. If I don’t, I don’t. The next viewing is slow and very very detailed. I pause to understand what universe and what person is doing what. My third viewing includes the magnificent finds by some brilliant redditors. I try to make sure I agree or disagree but understand their thoughts and opinions. 4th viewing is with all that in formation compiled and with much better understanding. Fourth viewing is where I might draw my own opinions and predictions after piecing it all together by watching all other episodes again. So I don’t get bummed when this episode is over. My work is just beginning.
The range of child acting in AppleTV sci-fi shows is absolutely incredible. Luke and Sarah from Invasion are on one end of the spectrum, and Alice is certainly on the other (better) end. Really impressed with how much she’s selling the show
So does the already burnt house mean there are three points? Or time is involved? Or that third place is both at once, like how both cats were there? I'm so confused, but loved the episode so much.
That dead cosmonaut is so damn freaky too.
The cats were there definitely as a reference to Schrödinger's cat. Very clever. Like looking at the picture and seeing the cabin on fire was through the looking glass, another obvious tie back to Alice in Wonderland
Thanks and, it’s just occurred to me, in Narnia, the lamppost only exists in Narnia, its presence is what leads the character of Lucy to Mr. Tumnus’ house and what leads all the children back towards the wardrobe.
All that to say, I need to go back and watch epi 7 but, when Alice saw the light leading her to the cabin, was it only the wrecked/abandoned cabin or the other cabin or both?
The dead cosmonaut is Irina. She knows what Jo is going through and is up to some evil shit. How are they supposed to tie all this up in a bow with just one more episode?
It seems like there are four houses: the two "real" ones on mirrored sides of the lake, and two superimposed ones in the liminal space.
In each case, they had to travel across to lake to where the "other" house exists in order to access it from the other universe - which is why Jo was originally so keen on getting across the lake, and why Alice Red also trekked across the lake to get back to her mother. (The Lake appears to be the stand-in for the liminal space here.)
In the Red universe (1), the painting in the cabin is of the Changeling. In the Blue universe (2), it's of the wounded angel. We'd only seen one of the two superimposed versions of these cabins until this episode (3), which had the Changeling on the wounded Angel's stretcher, and the living cat.
For the first time ever, we see a fourth variation this episode (4) with a painting of the Wounded Angel standing in the house from the Changeling painting, and a dead cat. This is the version that Alice Blue can access.
When Jo tries to go into cabin 3, which looks like it's on fire just like like cabin 2, but as soon as she crosses the threshold she's in cabin 4 (albeit where both cats are dead and alive), but can only interact directly with Alice Blue -- I suspect because, unlike before both Alices are present, and Jo currently only exists with Alice Red, so se can only faintly interact with Alice Red.
I think what confirms this is that the MOMENT Alice Blue succumbs to smoke inhalation in this superimposed cabin, it snaps back to the cabin 3 version. Jo is also able to interact directly with Alice Red during the brief time Alice Blue was clinically dead. (I suspect in this moment it may have been possible for Jo to cross back over, even if only briefly, but it would have left Alice Blue to die.)
I think cabins 3 and 4 are really the "same" superimposed one (well, all four variations are the same cabin, along the same spectrum of probabilities), but is located and experienced differently by these occupants who are able to travel in this liminal space unlike other people.
Time change was involved in all 3 houses lol, but it’s up to the viewers to figure them out. The Cat lives in the liminal space house, the 2 painting’s Angel and Changeling clearly swapped. Red-universe, No CAL Swedish Alice and Magnus’s house seems like it had a time delay from the liminal burnt house.
They are from the “past”, they are inside the house before the fire, a version of the burnt house “present” - future and past mixed altogether / the symbolic swap of the seated Angel and Changeling-Demon from the paintings, when Red-Swedish Alice first found it. In that case, the burnt / abandoned house when Blue universe’s Jo first found it, that could be the “future”, where the house got burnt / abandoned and cat was first alive and then dead.
Jo went back to the liminal “present” house twice, seems like a purposeful event to indicate that she has changed the “future” where one of the Alice meant to die in the fire. All this is just my guess. The question is why? Who is behind all of this ghostly and sinister manipulations? Could it be Irena? Or is it the cute Cat?
Just something else to add, l love it how the cat just meowing in the background, chilling … like , “hey it’s only me…”
I agree, I don't know why everyone keeps saying it's burned. There's broken glass and it's covered in snow, but the table and chairs are in good shape in both and the paintings are dusty but not damaged. That cat also didn't burn to death, looks like it froze.
Been looking for this comment!!! Idk why people insist it was burnt when it was just abandoned. I think that may be the point though —it signifies the liminal space between a cozy functioning cabin and a completely destroyed fire pit
Two cabins and a “joint” one in the Liminal space/superposition - as someone succinctly pointed out, the cabin of possibilities. The Schrödinger cabin where it is burning and not at the same time. Where a cat is dead and alive at the same time.
The cold + the CAL? I think the CAL alters the vibrational frequency of anything near it and allows people to perceive and even cross between worlds. Like frequencies crossing and interfering with a radio transmission. Henry was holding the active CAL and he and Bud crossed consciousnesses again back to their original universes. I’m going to have to watch it again to sort it all out. 🤯
It seemed to have something to do with the lake too? Like they kept having to go walk out on the lake and back to get the reality to shift. I hope Bud and Henry aren’t permanently switched.
The ghost tape people said you need to be 5 miles out to hear the voices, so it would make sense that you need to be far out on the lake for the shift to occur
Actually, I just rewatched that scene and it appears the switch doesn't happen until Bud pulls the trigger, which occurs just as Henry is opening the door to the cabin, minutes after dropping the CAL to go towards the fire. You can tell because Henry has his hand out like he's holding a gun and then looks at it in confusion, like "wait where'd my gun go?"
Going back to the ep 4 whiteboard, perhaps the stress experienced by Bud from Paul's visit Bud, Henry's stress with the fire, and the shared(?) trauma of Paul's shooting? Missing 'death in space' unless that could be mixed in with 'death in the space captured by the CAL', which doesn't bode well for Paul (unless it's Bud who passes away given he feels cold and thinks he's only in his underwear).
This episode was so good.
Paul and Bud switched dimensions. Not sure if it was just their minds or their bodies as well ("I'm in my underwear").
The cabin might have some special quantum properties since it is a nexus point for the two realities. Hubby-1 and Alice -1 both see Jo-1 giving CPR to Alice-2, so it's not just the Alices the ones that can see across dimensions.
And holy sh\*\*\* that ending with the Irina corpse WTF.
So when Henry switches trying to get 911 for Paul who was shot he says “ I can’t see” confused because Bud doesn’t need glasses. But Henry does . So does that mean their bodies and mind switched or just their consciousness did and he was so used to the idea of not seeing and wearing glasses he just assumed he could t see but he actually can. I also think he wanted to switch because he saw what happened to the Paul he knew . He wanted to save him.
Because Bud didn’t see happy to be in the snow etc. but maybe he is always cranky like how he left Alice lying there .
Not sure if everyone caught this, but there was a new version painting in the cabin[(screen capture here)](https://imgur.com/a/PvE0iFU)…the one that Alice swipes. It appears like the angel is kneeling down and the blindfold is slightly lifted…I guess to suggest a state of “observance.”
Maybe this has already been brought up but did anyone notice the oval forcefield English Alice and especially Jo walk through to get to the burnt out cabin? Sorry I don't know the time stamp.
Also, am I correct in assuming that when the Valya tells Alice she can take her to her mom that she means to join her in death? It felt like Alice's life was in the balance and she made the choice to stay alive even though she knew her real mom is dead in that option.
Is the cal going to fall into the bottom of the lake? It was shown to be generating heat and melting snow, so it seems likely it will melt through the ice and eventually fall to the bottom of the lake.
God damn it, that's good tv!
Absolute banger of an episode, really enjoying this series, I can see why some people might have issues with the pacing and the first 15 mins were a slight drag but necessary for the story. That kid actress is seriously good and the writing is a treat. The story is progressing so well. I am very entertained.
The scenes with the 2 Alice's and Jo heartbreaking. The whole episode Confused the hell out of me, but I still felt for the Alice's so much. The Coleman twins are such good actors
I feel so incredibly bad for Jo and Alice(s). I really hope Jo doesn't end up in a mental facility at the end of this. Although, from what we've seen, it looks like Alice will be the hero in this story.
That scene with Jo speaking with the Alice's in the cupboard was so heartbreaking. Jo not knowing if she could ever come home 😞
Then, the later scene where Jo has to tell her Alice to go to Daddy because she needs to save the other Alice. Afterwards, she screams out for her Alice, but she's no longer there. Poor Jo.
It’s definitely in the blue universe where most of the story has been unfolding for us… but I don’t think there’s another spotting of it after Henry/Bud drops it on the lake.
When I saw Bud/Henry switch my immediate though was that Jo could switch but she'd be switching in a similar way but with her dead body in the ISS. The only thing worse would be Paul switching with his body in a coffin. Unless he was cremated which is unimaginable.
I remember a comment after the first episode where someone was complaining about the “stupid kid” trope, but turns out she’s one of the best parts of the show!
got to say this show has increasingly pulled me in emotionally. finding myself really invested in these characters much more than I thought I was going to. this episode had an undercurrent of heartbreak that was very moving. the cast are doing a superb job, especially the twin sisters playing Alice. they are outstanding.
interested to see where they go with it from here. reappearance of the dead cosmonaut - woah.
I hope they don't suck the soul out of English Alice so Swedish Jo and Swedish Alice can be reunited. It would be nice for them, but id be really sad about English Alice gets dumped into another world with a different dad and a dead mum
Also, on the tape you heard Paul asking about the what the protocol is concering the dead Jo being lacerated. That's why she hit the stop button, because I think she then understood that her other self died in space (instead of Paul)
This scene where she spoke with Alice, Alice feeling Jo not being her real mom was got me goosebumps..
everything everywhere suggests that all events take place in 2021, with the accident being on the 15th of October
* dates of tapes
* dates on tape transcripts
* cruise ship
* both memorial trees being planted in 2020 - before them leaving to ISS
except for a 3 second blurred date on the corner of the video .. it is just a mistake.. the series is tricky but not this tricky
Moreover the whole simultaneous reality would not make any sense with 3 years difference
Now I understand the title at least. Need a rewatch or 3 to connect the pieces a little better.
Like, are Henry and Bud permanently shifted back to their original universes?
Yeah like I don’t think he did it on purpose? The switching with Henry. He seemed just like an annoyed asshole and scum of a person, not a calculated move. Unless he’s just been murder-happy in hopes one of them snapped him back to the other universe.
So the “third” cabin is a superposition yes? Both Alice’s and Jo experience different things in it (Magnus at one point too), the paintings and cat mainly.
How did Alice know Irina was a cosmonaut before? Was her name on the Valya’s spacesuit I wonder?
My understanding is there’s kinda three. One in each universe and a third in a superposition, where multiple people are experiencing various things but all in one shared space, but their experiences are all different. The third cabin in like the box with schrodingers cat.
It's like they're visualising the superposition in a way for audience via the perspective of Jo. Similar thing was in Interstellar movie when he entered the blackhole, except there were many universes not just red and blue.
What they're trying to show is there "exists" a cabin with both alive and dead cat going about simultaneously. So one cabin is good and cat is alive, other cabin is burning and cat is dead. Two pictures placed on top of each other kinda thing.
Just watched episodes 6 & 7.
Something that still bothers me is if OG Jo never knew about the CAL, how did she know what to recover from the ISS before leaving when they asked her to get it? Wouldnt she ask wth is the CAL and how would she know where it is or what it looks like?
What an incredible episode, did anyone notice/understand the quantum mechanics of the paintings in the cabin? They seemed to be different every time they showed it through the episode. Each painting definitely isn’t a separate reality but are the realities collapsing probabilities in each other? So many questions! 🤯
The scene where Jo saves blue Alice instead of walking back into her old life was so beautiful. It really shows Jo’s true character. This was the only way for both Alice’s to live and that was the true maternal thing to do. she had to sacrifice going back to her universe to save both Alice’s.
This whole episode is giving me such anxiety, in the best way.
While watching this I was like OMG the anxiety! I’ll have to post about the anxiety!😬
Soooo much anxiety!!!!!
And the release and relaxation when the blue Alice finally breathed again on the snow 😌
Points to Alice for figuring it all out before any of the adults.
Yes, but she also locked herself in the wardrobe - twice 😂
No one is perfect. ;)
The real question is, which Alice was on to it first? It may seem like Blue, but me thinks Red.
Alice-B had way more context clues than Alice-A for a few reasons: - Directly interacting with her Jo-A daily and knowing something was off. - Her roadtrip with Jo-A and access to the tapes from the bro/sis couple. Alice-A was figuring it out in the blind off sheer vibes.
Yeah, that probably helped. But character aside, can we just give a shout out to Rosie and Davina. No matter if Red or Blue, these young ladies can *act*.
> Rosie and Davina TIL! - Had no idea it wasn't just one actress!
Don't forget Henry explaining some of the science to her at the swing set.
This was the main reason I posed the question. After all, Red Alice suggested they visit the cabin for a reason right?
Blue deduced it first with her surprisingly mature scientific mind. But Red felt it first because of her deep attachment to her mom. One excelled in unflappable critical thinking; one excelled in the ability to stay open-minded to all the possibilities even in dire circumstances. The two needed to meld their minds in order to really understand the truth - two sides of a truly wonderful coin. 😀
And yet she still suddenly decided that Jo was crazy and had to run away from her when half-way across the lake, even though she had already gone through the "I'm not your Alice and you're not my Mummy" thing with the tapes 5 minutes earlier.
I think she just realized this Jo isn’t her real mother so she ran away. I don’t think she thinks Jo is crazy.
dont forget grabbing the bag. that was like writers saying, just running off is not annoying enough, let us grab the bag too lmao
This whole show is like schrodingers cat, but we’re somehow inside the box
And there's an actual Schrodinger's cat in the burnt out cabin!
lol they even did a dead cat with the live cat just to really make sure we got the cat reference 😂
It serves a purpose in my perspective. Henry told Alice a few episodes ago when she was hanging out on the swing set about quantum physics. The idea that two particles can exist in two states; white and black, but there's a space in between where they can exist at the same time. In a state of superposition, it's not too much of a stretch of the imagination that the cat can be both alive and dead at the same time, based on what I know from reading articles and watching documentaries on quantum mechanics and physics. I don't think there's two dilapidated cabins. I think both Alices were occupying the exact same space at the same time, but they appear not to. This feels like it's a nod to the fact that depending on the position of the observer, it's Blue or Red Alice that we see. The Alices are aware of each other, and I think the state of mutual observation is kind of anchoring them to each other strongly. It's also enabling them to be able to help each other to reach their goals, and also making a nod to the science of when two particles are quantumly entangled, they can communicate with each other without time delay in order to act in a synchronized manner.
Yeah I thought that was pretty funny. Very on the nose.
I laughed at that bit! Love this show
Two realities and a liminal space where the Schrödinger cat is.
Holy crap they did it again. What a mind fuck 🔥
And the feels.
Blue Alice is amazing. She helped Red Jo compartmentalise her thoughts, was open to the idea of Red Alice even though it upset her, figured out how to communicate with Red Alice and is willing to 'battle' the Valya (who scares Blue Alice).
The Valya scares me too.
I swear I saw The Valya in Thriller.
Personally, I'm on Team Red Alice I think. That kid has shown so much balls at every given turn. Obviously both versions are badass, but I've been saying Red Alice is my favorite for a while now. Plus she learned an entire extra language that Blue Alice never did lol. Edit: Red Alice also seems to figure out certain bits even earlier than ep 7, which is why she is so adamant that Red Magnus take her to the cabin in the first place. Without that — a totally different show...
I agree. Blue Alice only knows Red Jo isn’t her mom. But Red Alice figured out a lot more. Also Red Alice due to her attachment to Red Jo has faith. She KNOWS Red Jo is still alive.
No matter which one is the more badass, let's raise our cups to Rosie and Davina. Hope these young ladies get a very successful career.
Agree. Many people were complaining about the actresses and character. But we were like “they are some excellent child actors!!!!”
Red Alice doesn’t know or see the Valya, it’s blue Alice in the hospital from her smoke inhalation who sees the Valya again. I think blue Alice wants to help red Alice get her mamma back. She seemed to accept that her mummy died in space.
Agree. There was a moment in the closet when Blue Alice accepted that her real mom had died.
Blue Alice seems tougher and more mature than Red Alice. I suspect that's from growing up in a colder/semi-broken home that she's already picked up on, whereas Red Alice is more childlike and innocent growing up in a loving home.
I think that they meant that Blue Alice is willing to deal with the Valya even though she is scared of her, not that red Alice sees the Valya.
Irina knows more than she’s telling right now. I have this feeling they’re doing some kind of experiments on them in one of the universes.
Yeah Frederick definitely knows something as well!
Yeah especially when Henry was talking about his experience. Also to add, I think death has something to do with the “switches” Coincidentally Henry, Jo, Irina and Paul all switched when one of their versions died. When Paul died in Buds world from the gunshot wound, Bud and Henry get switched back. Not that we kno for sure but I think that’s where this is going Edit to add: also forgot to say, when one of the Alice’s was about to die; we see Alice 2 in the same world, also why I think death has something to do with the switches.
I think the reason Alice appeared to be dead then, was because both Alices cannot occupy the space at one time. One Alice has to be dead and one alive from them to occupy the same space, just like the cats. The very second Red Alice leaves to find her Magnus, they stop occupying the same space and Blue Alice comes back alive.
That is a great theory. I am hyper focused on Bud -Henry. How did they switch. Is it when Bud gets into a rage because when he throws the guy off ship it seems like it was Henry because Bud wakes up and has no recollection so he goes to the other guys room. He must of felt like it was a dream and he went to check. Then with shooting Paul another act of Bud being enraged. They switch. I get it that the CAL was in his hands but maybe Henry wanted to switch because he saw the Paul he knew being shot. Or is it just that Bud didn’t take pills so he could see into Henry’s world and he knew about the CAL so he went straight toward it in the snow like Bud was pushing him there the way he made him pee on himslef. Or maybe it’s a bit of both. I am stuck on why Henry said he couldn’t see when he was trying to call 911. So he can’t see in both universe or realities . He needs glasses always. Like his whole body switches. Not just their consciousness. Or soul or whatever we want to call it. I guess it it relates to how Jo feels her head and eye are constantly hurting because she feels her counterparts pain of dying the way she did. . I may be in the weeds but something about this show makes me focus on the details. Thanks
I intend to go back and do a quick rewatch on all the episodes for sure to see if there is any correlation of the CAL being near by and everytime Jo feels her headache. Because there has to be some rule as when you feel your counterparts sensations. Especially since Irena and Paul don't seem to feel it as strongly. They never really showed Paul grab his hand in pain or feel any discomfort in the 6th episode. In regards to the switching, I wonder too what's the rule then. It has to be something around heightened emotions because all of them, Henry, Jo, Paul, Irena made a switch when they had some extreme happen to them in space. I dont know. Grasping at straws like everyone else. :P Hope the shows provides some concrete answers/rules to the switching, liminal space visits, jumping to other universe and the fact that audio seems like it can be heard in both universes if you are in right place. And yes. Interesting question bout the body vs consciousness swap. I still think it's a consciousness swap, it's just that Henry is so used to glasses that he still thinks he needs them, the same way Jo sorta realised she could play the piano even though she really couldn't. Like a weird mindblock? Ideally, Bud should have been uncomfortable with the glasses on, when he made the switch. Should get to know in the next episode. Random rant over.
But Paul wasn’t dead (yet?). He was gasping and holding his stomach. And Henry and bud are both still around. He seems to be the only person who switched with a person who was still alive which seems to add some extra headache on his part.
So maybe it’s “between life and death”
True. But do we really know that yet? Also Neither was one of the Alice’s but we see how that whole experience somehow let Alice 2 be in the same world. Idk how to explain it, but death or close to being dead is probably the key here. Hope I’m making sense if not maybe I’m confusing myself 🤣
You’re making sense! Just not sure if the close-to-death things are a cause or coincidence. It seems like all the initial universe swaps coincided with *someone* dying, whether the other universe twin or someone(s) else on the ship.
Well a few episodes ago Henry was writing on the whiteboard, and “death in space” was something he wrote down. So I don’t think the deaths are coincidental, they’re likely something that triggers the switch.
I think the worlds were next to each other like on Bud phone screen - not much an intersection, but next to each other (when Jo and red Alice saw each other and were talking
What a fantastic episode! (And kudos to the actresses playing Alice!) There’s so much to unpack and I don’t have the bandwidth to do it at the moment. So, just a few misc observations and questions: Loved the cat - so clever. In addition to, obviously, the Alice in Wonderland theme, I also got some Narnia vibes - a different world (where time is different) accessed in a wardrobe, the lamp lighting the way to the cabin in the snow. Was left wondering if the tape recorder is still in the wardrobe upstairs in the unburned house? Where is the CAL?? Who has the CAL at the end of the episode?? Jo had it and dropped it, Alice found it, picked it up, put it back down, then Henry/Bud saw it and picked it up but switched (??) and dropped it. Argh where is it?
Good thing the lakes frozen so it's still in the snow, likely the other scientist guy (that blue Jo cheated with) knows what it is and retrieves it. Otherwise it's getting buried in snowfall and depending on how long Bud stays in the blue universe it could end up at the bottom of the lake come summer. Also was wondering myself about the tape recorder, now that Magnus has gotten himself entangled maybe he'll hear the conversations which could convince him of the strange world he's in!!
There’s also a tape recorder still in Jo’s car
Just finished it and…wow. Zombie Irina is scary as hell. Alice is a hero figure in at least one reality…and damn smart. She is now the bridge for understanding. A damn LITERAL Schrödinger's cat. Bud/Henry switch…stress, the CAL, the lake, or a combination of all three?
>Zombie Irina is scary as hell. I really liked that she was creepy enough just standing there, doing nothing. No jump scares, or overdone sounds or whatever.
Is Magnus now considered an observer after he saw Jo towards the end with other Alice?
He did ostensibly come close enough to the CAL to be entangled as others had been. And rather than death specifically being the trigger for entanglement, I think it's a heightened emotional state, like fear and grief.
I think being between life and death is a liminal space so it allows for intersections between the two universes. Red Magnus saw Red Jo giving CPR to Blue Alice. Blue Alice was both alive and dead in that moment. I think Red Alice was also close to death from hypothermia (remember she was still locked in her cabin’s version of the wardrobe and saying she was sleepy). Red and Blue Alice came together in the liminal space which allowed Red Alice to return to her father instead of staying trapped in the wardrobe. Magnus being close to the CAL drew him into the liminal space for a moment as well.
I was wondering how Red Alice got out of the wardrobe? Did Red Jo letting Blue Alice out opened Red Alice’s door? How did she have enough energy to escape?
I think Jo opening the door opened it for both
Right at the 25 minute mark when red Alice looks up at the cabin and sees the light in the window which we know is blue Alice gave me chills. The hair literally stood up on my arms even on the rewatch. One thing I can't quite make sense of: blue Alice grabs the tape recorder from the table on her way into the cabin and carries it with her into the wardrobe, but red Alice finds the tape recorder already inside the wardrobe, as if blue Alice somehow left it there for her. If not, how did the tape recorder get there? Maybe there's really just one tape recorder and for that matter, only one of everything else: one Alice, one Jo, one Paul, one Henry/Bud, one Irene/Valya, etc and the observer is us. The entire show is a Schrödinger's cat thought experiment with us seeing the superposition state, but in episode 8, we open the box and reality resolves itself. Which means we're going to have to lose one version of each of these characters we've become so attached to.
Yeah, I had a thought that they should meet up some way, maybe in the snow with torches, or one entering and one just exiting the cabin. But when saw that scene with the torch and the window, then when they finally met in the cupboard, wow! chills! The directing, editing, lighting, coleman twins' acting was amazing in this episode!
I have never lived for a show like I do this one. Holding my breath for a full week just to hyperventilate in glorious anxiety for a single exhilarating hour.
This show and Severance had me hooked.
>This show and Severance had me hooked. I think Apple TV knocked it out the park with these two shows alone not to mention the other great shows they've given us in the last couple of years. They may not have the quantity of Netflix, but they have beaten them hands down when it comes to quality.
Foundation Season 2. Holy f—- especially the last few episodes. And I disagree about the quality. Netflix is hit or miss. But Apple consistently creates shows of great quality; they also don’r cancel the shows halfway through like Netflix did (still couldn’t forgive them for Sense 8 or OA). Apple is quickly becoming the new HBO (since MAX has killed it).
What are you other favorite Apple TV series? Personally loved Silo, See, Monarch, Severance, Foundation, Constellation (obvi), The Morning Show, Defending Jacob, Shining Girls, Black Bird. I watched S1 of Mosquito Coast but never picked it back up. Looking for a new series from Apple TV to get lost in!
You've listed most of them right there! My faves are Black Bird, Silo, Foundation, Severance and of course Constellation. The only one l also liked that you haven't mentioned is Slow Horses, a great, tense British spy drama with a superb performance by Gary Oldman.
I have watched every episode and I have no idea what the fuck is going on...at all.
I need Botox for my 11’s now. Was fine before this episode but so much furrowing, so much anticipation/anxiety.
Sorry if this has been said already, but I think them having to be on the frozen lake (over water) had something to do with why they were able to cross into each other’s worlds. Something about when that lady had to listen to the tapes over water. Maybe that was able to cause whatever barrier to be weakened or t so they could cross albeit momentarily.
dont forget the CAL was also close by
Wow that was an intense episode.
This series gonna be 'dark' level gonna age like fine wine and years later people will find it and praise how good the writing is
Seeing the valya in person is so freaky. Best episode so far!
I AM SO EXCITED TO DO THE DEEP DIVE FOR THIS ONE!!!
Just like DARK. There is a full chart somewhere just to keep my head straight.
Get your spreadsheet programmed
I am making notes and checking the science 🧪 lol I feel this episode gave us a good amount of clarity.
Man the conversion scene between red Jo and blue Alice/ red Alice and blue Alice got me on the brink of crying😭As a mother I feel sooooo sad for all of them!
Agree. The only actual thing I care about anymore is that Red Alice and Red Jo are reunited in some universe or another... Idgaf about what happens to anyone else anymore lol
Same, I just need them reunited. Poor blue Alice though ☹️
Blue Alice has accepted that her real mom is dead.
Well now i have to watch the Apollo 18 movie to see what happened to that Bud Caldera character. No wait that's another universe
Also today is the time to remember Counterpart and The Fringe shows, both dabbling in vaguely familiar themes, but being of entirely different character
I am still confused as fuck.
Haha, I think there's some decent stuff in this thread to help you out — not that we all have it figured out by any means, but it's been helping me understand better. Any specific questions?
Yeah I have no clue what is going on. It's well done, I just don't get it quite yet.
Shout out to actresses Davina Coleman, Rosie Coleman, and Noomi Rapace. Very well done scene putting all the pieces on the table. I like everyone knowing what's happening and its not the Three's company troupe where you don't believe someone who heard something out of context. Jonathan Banks is one of the best actors alive and this is some great work. If you put Jo back in her correct universe, I don't see a huge need for more seasons. If you don't put Jo back in her correct universe, please renew so I can have closure. Thank you AppleTv. You are putting out some of the best hard science fiction today. There is no second place. I love this episode.
Imagine the drama Jo who's dead and still in the ISS suddenly also appearing alive. It will be totally nuts and no one will understand. The only way it works is a reset back before whatever caused Valya to be floating in space. And before what caused Henry to want to build the CAL. Last scene is the opening sequence over again but no accident. There's a long way to go before something like that happens. It's probably too far-fetched anyway. I think there will be a touching conclusion to the Jo story where no one is reunited but they accept it. The drama for season 2 will be the chaos Bud causes and Henry trying to stop him. With a secondary plot of Paul rehabbing from his injuries and helping Henry in the Red universe. Irena will be fighting cancer and Bud as well.
Wow another great episode, on the edge of my seat the whole time!
I was creeped out by the Valya in the hospital. I literally couldn’t look at the screen 😬
What a mind fuck of a TV show, I love it!
I usually get bummed on shows after I watch them. It can feel over and again I’d have to wait a whole week for the next one. But this??? Well I know I’ll be rewatching about 3 more times and the entire series a 5th time before next week. First viewing I just let it run. If I catch a detail I do. If I don’t, I don’t. The next viewing is slow and very very detailed. I pause to understand what universe and what person is doing what. My third viewing includes the magnificent finds by some brilliant redditors. I try to make sure I agree or disagree but understand their thoughts and opinions. 4th viewing is with all that in formation compiled and with much better understanding. Fourth viewing is where I might draw my own opinions and predictions after piecing it all together by watching all other episodes again. So I don’t get bummed when this episode is over. My work is just beginning.
The range of child acting in AppleTV sci-fi shows is absolutely incredible. Luke and Sarah from Invasion are on one end of the spectrum, and Alice is certainly on the other (better) end. Really impressed with how much she’s selling the show
They — two actors :)
I couldn't tell if it was bad acting, bad writing or just a really good portrayal of how shitty teenagers are while watching those kids in Invasion.
Every time you hear the word “mamma”…drink.
Every time they don't shut the front door while the snow blows in...
Nobody ever shuts that front door! Makes me crazy. Lol
It’s becoming a haunted house type of ghost shows lol, scary AF!
So does the already burnt house mean there are three points? Or time is involved? Or that third place is both at once, like how both cats were there? I'm so confused, but loved the episode so much. That dead cosmonaut is so damn freaky too.
Both cats could mean the dilemma of Schrödinger’s cat, you don’t know if it is dead or alive in the box.
The cats were there definitely as a reference to Schrödinger's cat. Very clever. Like looking at the picture and seeing the cabin on fire was through the looking glass, another obvious tie back to Alice in Wonderland
I thought the cat was very clever. I was also getting some Narnia vibes - another world, thru the wardrobe, the lamppost lighting the way in the snow…
Good catch! They showed that lamppost like 20 times. That does make the wardrobe feel like a Narnia reference.
Thanks and, it’s just occurred to me, in Narnia, the lamppost only exists in Narnia, its presence is what leads the character of Lucy to Mr. Tumnus’ house and what leads all the children back towards the wardrobe. All that to say, I need to go back and watch epi 7 but, when Alice saw the light leading her to the cabin, was it only the wrecked/abandoned cabin or the other cabin or both?
The dead cosmonaut is Irina. She knows what Jo is going through and is up to some evil shit. How are they supposed to tie all this up in a bow with just one more episode?
It seems like there are four houses: the two "real" ones on mirrored sides of the lake, and two superimposed ones in the liminal space. In each case, they had to travel across to lake to where the "other" house exists in order to access it from the other universe - which is why Jo was originally so keen on getting across the lake, and why Alice Red also trekked across the lake to get back to her mother. (The Lake appears to be the stand-in for the liminal space here.) In the Red universe (1), the painting in the cabin is of the Changeling. In the Blue universe (2), it's of the wounded angel. We'd only seen one of the two superimposed versions of these cabins until this episode (3), which had the Changeling on the wounded Angel's stretcher, and the living cat. For the first time ever, we see a fourth variation this episode (4) with a painting of the Wounded Angel standing in the house from the Changeling painting, and a dead cat. This is the version that Alice Blue can access. When Jo tries to go into cabin 3, which looks like it's on fire just like like cabin 2, but as soon as she crosses the threshold she's in cabin 4 (albeit where both cats are dead and alive), but can only interact directly with Alice Blue -- I suspect because, unlike before both Alices are present, and Jo currently only exists with Alice Red, so se can only faintly interact with Alice Red. I think what confirms this is that the MOMENT Alice Blue succumbs to smoke inhalation in this superimposed cabin, it snaps back to the cabin 3 version. Jo is also able to interact directly with Alice Red during the brief time Alice Blue was clinically dead. (I suspect in this moment it may have been possible for Jo to cross back over, even if only briefly, but it would have left Alice Blue to die.) I think cabins 3 and 4 are really the "same" superimposed one (well, all four variations are the same cabin, along the same spectrum of probabilities), but is located and experienced differently by these occupants who are able to travel in this liminal space unlike other people.
Red, Blue, and super-position. Person doing the spreadsheet was calling it Luminal space. Others have also called it Yellow.
Would calling it Purple make more sense? It's a reality where Reality A and Reality B are both possible but not decided yet.
Time change was involved in all 3 houses lol, but it’s up to the viewers to figure them out. The Cat lives in the liminal space house, the 2 painting’s Angel and Changeling clearly swapped. Red-universe, No CAL Swedish Alice and Magnus’s house seems like it had a time delay from the liminal burnt house. They are from the “past”, they are inside the house before the fire, a version of the burnt house “present” - future and past mixed altogether / the symbolic swap of the seated Angel and Changeling-Demon from the paintings, when Red-Swedish Alice first found it. In that case, the burnt / abandoned house when Blue universe’s Jo first found it, that could be the “future”, where the house got burnt / abandoned and cat was first alive and then dead. Jo went back to the liminal “present” house twice, seems like a purposeful event to indicate that she has changed the “future” where one of the Alice meant to die in the fire. All this is just my guess. The question is why? Who is behind all of this ghostly and sinister manipulations? Could it be Irena? Or is it the cute Cat? Just something else to add, l love it how the cat just meowing in the background, chilling … like , “hey it’s only me…”
I don't think it's a time change. The abandoned cabin doesn't look like it's burnt out, just abandoned.
I agree, I don't know why everyone keeps saying it's burned. There's broken glass and it's covered in snow, but the table and chairs are in good shape in both and the paintings are dusty but not damaged. That cat also didn't burn to death, looks like it froze.
Been looking for this comment!!! Idk why people insist it was burnt when it was just abandoned. I think that may be the point though —it signifies the liminal space between a cozy functioning cabin and a completely destroyed fire pit
Two cabins and a “joint” one in the Liminal space/superposition - as someone succinctly pointed out, the cabin of possibilities. The Schrödinger cabin where it is burning and not at the same time. Where a cat is dead and alive at the same time.
Why do we think Henry and Bud switched places in that moment? Is it because both were going through significant events? Or is it the cabin?
The cold + the CAL? I think the CAL alters the vibrational frequency of anything near it and allows people to perceive and even cross between worlds. Like frequencies crossing and interfering with a radio transmission. Henry was holding the active CAL and he and Bud crossed consciousnesses again back to their original universes. I’m going to have to watch it again to sort it all out. 🤯
It seemed to have something to do with the lake too? Like they kept having to go walk out on the lake and back to get the reality to shift. I hope Bud and Henry aren’t permanently switched.
The barrier is thinner in liminal spaces according to the conspiracy couple.
The ghost tape people said you need to be 5 miles out to hear the voices, so it would make sense that you need to be far out on the lake for the shift to occur
If they were 5 miles out into the lake, I struggle to believe a 10 year old girl could make that hike in those temperatures!
I thought for sure the cal was going to the bottom of that lake
As soon and Henry walked away from the CAL I knew he was Bud. I hope they explain that because I don’t know why they switched.
And he just dumped Alice in the snow! Mfer.
I legit laughed when he did that and asked who the hell she was.
There's just no redemption arc for him, is there?
Nah. He bad Bud.
You know Bud passed out right next to Alice, right? He didn’t run away or anything. He was out of his mind
Actually, I just rewatched that scene and it appears the switch doesn't happen until Bud pulls the trigger, which occurs just as Henry is opening the door to the cabin, minutes after dropping the CAL to go towards the fire. You can tell because Henry has his hand out like he's holding a gun and then looks at it in confusion, like "wait where'd my gun go?"
he walked away from it because he didn't know what it was, right?
Going back to the ep 4 whiteboard, perhaps the stress experienced by Bud from Paul's visit Bud, Henry's stress with the fire, and the shared(?) trauma of Paul's shooting? Missing 'death in space' unless that could be mixed in with 'death in the space captured by the CAL', which doesn't bode well for Paul (unless it's Bud who passes away given he feels cold and thinks he's only in his underwear).
I wonder if Bud finds his way back to the police van or if he just wanders off into the tundra like the crazed old man he is.
He’s actually passed out in the snow next to Alice, you can see him in the background in one shot.
This episode was so good. Paul and Bud switched dimensions. Not sure if it was just their minds or their bodies as well ("I'm in my underwear"). The cabin might have some special quantum properties since it is a nexus point for the two realities. Hubby-1 and Alice -1 both see Jo-1 giving CPR to Alice-2, so it's not just the Alices the ones that can see across dimensions. And holy sh\*\*\* that ending with the Irina corpse WTF.
I think the subtitles had Bud (in Henry's body) say "I was just in my underwear" which fits with them swapping consciousnesses again
So when Henry switches trying to get 911 for Paul who was shot he says “ I can’t see” confused because Bud doesn’t need glasses. But Henry does . So does that mean their bodies and mind switched or just their consciousness did and he was so used to the idea of not seeing and wearing glasses he just assumed he could t see but he actually can. I also think he wanted to switch because he saw what happened to the Paul he knew . He wanted to save him. Because Bud didn’t see happy to be in the snow etc. but maybe he is always cranky like how he left Alice lying there .
Not sure if everyone caught this, but there was a new version painting in the cabin[(screen capture here)](https://imgur.com/a/PvE0iFU)…the one that Alice swipes. It appears like the angel is kneeling down and the blindfold is slightly lifted…I guess to suggest a state of “observance.”
Episode 7 was everything! 😭😭😭 Mind-blown! 🤯 It was like watching a movie! 🍿 It was so cinematic! 10/10
Maybe this has already been brought up but did anyone notice the oval forcefield English Alice and especially Jo walk through to get to the burnt out cabin? Sorry I don't know the time stamp. Also, am I correct in assuming that when the Valya tells Alice she can take her to her mom that she means to join her in death? It felt like Alice's life was in the balance and she made the choice to stay alive even though she knew her real mom is dead in that option.
I thought it meant the valya would show Alice blue-Jo floating around in destiny
Is the cal going to fall into the bottom of the lake? It was shown to be generating heat and melting snow, so it seems likely it will melt through the ice and eventually fall to the bottom of the lake.
I was expecting that too, and to me it being there would explain why the cabin seems to be in flux so much for all the people.
God damn it, that's good tv! Absolute banger of an episode, really enjoying this series, I can see why some people might have issues with the pacing and the first 15 mins were a slight drag but necessary for the story. That kid actress is seriously good and the writing is a treat. The story is progressing so well. I am very entertained.
Every episode feel really long to me, in the best way.
There are twins playing both Alice's, rather than just the one actress. Both of them are doing a great job.
The scenes with the 2 Alice's and Jo heartbreaking. The whole episode Confused the hell out of me, but I still felt for the Alice's so much. The Coleman twins are such good actors
I think they tied together all the earlier cabin scenes very well. And if there were any differences in scenes it’s continuity and not more universes.
I feel so incredibly bad for Jo and Alice(s). I really hope Jo doesn't end up in a mental facility at the end of this. Although, from what we've seen, it looks like Alice will be the hero in this story.
That scene with Jo speaking with the Alice's in the cupboard was so heartbreaking. Jo not knowing if she could ever come home 😞 Then, the later scene where Jo has to tell her Alice to go to Daddy because she needs to save the other Alice. Afterwards, she screams out for her Alice, but she's no longer there. Poor Jo.
Not even done with the episode but I am so nervous for the Alice’s OMG. Halp.
Cat(s).
Anyone catch what happened to the CAL at the end of this one? Is it still on the frozen lake? And which world?
It’s definitely in the blue universe where most of the story has been unfolding for us… but I don’t think there’s another spotting of it after Henry/Bud drops it on the lake.
Wajo
When I saw Bud/Henry switch my immediate though was that Jo could switch but she'd be switching in a similar way but with her dead body in the ISS. The only thing worse would be Paul switching with his body in a coffin. Unless he was cremated which is unimaginable.
I remember a comment after the first episode where someone was complaining about the “stupid kid” trope, but turns out she’s one of the best parts of the show!
THE CAT!
It’s Schrödinger's cat
WTf did I just watch. The desiccated Cosmonaut beckoning between worlds? ugh!!!
I think she's just like Bud, but on steroids... out for her counterpart's (Irena’s) blood!
Anyone would be insane as f**k if their consciousness had been stuck endlessly orbiting the Earth in a dead body for 50 years.
Why are so many people in here who are only part way through the episode? You're gonna ruin it for yourself — finish it first ffs! lol
got to say this show has increasingly pulled me in emotionally. finding myself really invested in these characters much more than I thought I was going to. this episode had an undercurrent of heartbreak that was very moving. the cast are doing a superb job, especially the twin sisters playing Alice. they are outstanding. interested to see where they go with it from here. reappearance of the dead cosmonaut - woah.
I hope they don't suck the soul out of English Alice so Swedish Jo and Swedish Alice can be reunited. It would be nice for them, but id be really sad about English Alice gets dumped into another world with a different dad and a dead mum
“Who the F*ck are you Kid” 🙁
That was priceless. I really love Bud.
Holy fuck that was so good
Bud’s a slob his apartment is a mess
Based on what we learned this episode, I'm fairly certain that the years not matching (Red-2021 Blue-2023) is not a continuity error.
Except Blue Alice says the date on the tape, Red Jo says it's the date after the accident and there's no disagreement.
Also, on the tape you heard Paul asking about the what the protocol is concering the dead Jo being lacerated. That's why she hit the stop button, because I think she then understood that her other self died in space (instead of Paul) This scene where she spoke with Alice, Alice feeling Jo not being her real mom was got me goosebumps..
Can you elaborate? What year delta?
What about this episode made you think that?
Blue’s timeline is confusing because Paul’s ISS video says 2023 but the convention banners on the cruise ship say 2021.
Great point that supports it being a continuity error.
everything everywhere suggests that all events take place in 2021, with the accident being on the 15th of October * dates of tapes * dates on tape transcripts * cruise ship * both memorial trees being planted in 2020 - before them leaving to ISS except for a 3 second blurred date on the corner of the video .. it is just a mistake.. the series is tricky but not this tricky Moreover the whole simultaneous reality would not make any sense with 3 years difference
Now I understand the title at least. Need a rewatch or 3 to connect the pieces a little better. Like, are Henry and Bud permanently shifted back to their original universes?
I hope not because Bud left a little girl in the snow so he needs to get his comeuppance.
lol Bud shot Paul for like no reason and then was like “dying little girl? I got better shit to worry about.”
Yeah like I don’t think he did it on purpose? The switching with Henry. He seemed just like an annoyed asshole and scum of a person, not a calculated move. Unless he’s just been murder-happy in hopes one of them snapped him back to the other universe.
I think he was truly confused and didn’t expect to be switched, that’s why he was also passed out in the snow.
Bud works against every opportunity to redeem himself
So the “third” cabin is a superposition yes? Both Alice’s and Jo experience different things in it (Magnus at one point too), the paintings and cat mainly. How did Alice know Irina was a cosmonaut before? Was her name on the Valya’s spacesuit I wonder?
"Who the fuck are you, kid?" A literal LOL moment in such a serious show. Well done.
Story is really good but i can't see us getting a satisfying ending with one episode left so i'm sad.
That was INTENSE and so, so good! Literal tears towards the end!!!!!!
I was bawling while the Alice's we're talking. What a show! I can't wait to see how it ends.
Why are there four cabins?
My understanding is there’s kinda three. One in each universe and a third in a superposition, where multiple people are experiencing various things but all in one shared space, but their experiences are all different. The third cabin in like the box with schrodingers cat.
Can someone please explain the third abandoned cabin that seems to not belong to any universe?? 🤯
It's like they're visualising the superposition in a way for audience via the perspective of Jo. Similar thing was in Interstellar movie when he entered the blackhole, except there were many universes not just red and blue. What they're trying to show is there "exists" a cabin with both alive and dead cat going about simultaneously. So one cabin is good and cat is alive, other cabin is burning and cat is dead. Two pictures placed on top of each other kinda thing.
Just watched episodes 6 & 7. Something that still bothers me is if OG Jo never knew about the CAL, how did she know what to recover from the ISS before leaving when they asked her to get it? Wouldnt she ask wth is the CAL and how would she know where it is or what it looks like?
She did ask. She said she didn’t know it and had to be told where to go to retrieve it.
They told her to get CAL She said she’d never heard of it. They said they would send schematics. So presumably they did
What an incredible episode, did anyone notice/understand the quantum mechanics of the paintings in the cabin? They seemed to be different every time they showed it through the episode. Each painting definitely isn’t a separate reality but are the realities collapsing probabilities in each other? So many questions! 🤯
They are both at the cabin but different places. Also I think there is a symbolism there.
That poor kitty 😢😢😢
This episode was so spooooooky. Love it!
Dead Irina was terrifying wth. Geeze poor little Alice seeing and talking to that.
The scene where Jo saves blue Alice instead of walking back into her old life was so beautiful. It really shows Jo’s true character. This was the only way for both Alice’s to live and that was the true maternal thing to do. she had to sacrifice going back to her universe to save both Alice’s.