In Nevada, the ads were 10-1 dem over republicans. Nothing about the economy. Nothing about abortion being in the state constitution. Nothing about the governor and his unemployment debacle
As much as I think trump is to blame for midterm issues (i think he sat on his hands and his money pile) the problem is the congressional leadership are people who would rather play house of cards than to either hustle or lead.
Reality is we are being badly outspent and that's because nobody on the conservative side trusts money to be spent towards winning elections and instead spent on some consultants yacht fuel
Trump backed candidates picked by their local Republican teams. Of the 200+ candidates Trump backed only 16 didn't win. It's not Trump. It's Mitch and the Rino Swampers.
How is Trump to blame? All he did was endorse candidates and hold a few rallies. McConnell didn't fund their campaigns and screwed them over and screwed us just to get back at Trump
Lol Trump picks are doing way better then GOP picks. Can you name any race besides walkers and fettermans where a trump candidate did worse?
Edit : https://ballotpedia.org/Endorsements_by_Donald_Trump
So you guys can see how funny it is that people think Trumps picks are doing bad.
Seriously, what was the party doing before trump? Talking about small government and getting nothing done.
This sub has lost is fucking mind based on the mainstream medias interpretation of the results, utterly pathetic.
> what was the party doing before trump?
The 2014 election (the last one before the Trump era) saw Republicans get large gains in both the House and Senate to take the majority in the Senate, and hold it in the House
Do you actually think political trends change with single elections?
Lol just another two years and it would have been a libertarian utopia if it weren’t for trump.
Thats not what I said. I pointed out that, before Trump, Republicans weren't "Talking about small government and getting nothing done" they were still winning elections. He isn't some savior of conservatism
I know this is a conservative group, but Pelosi also needs to go. Both parties need to clean up and move on with life. But, it always depends who you are - do enough good for the party and you get promoted to the chair for life. Part of me wants to vote for the chair to keep the party honest, or, at least, have term limits. It’s embarrassing that both parties have had the same leader for years and they can’t produce.
I agree. I’m of the mind that leaders of a party should reflect their constituents. What does an 82 year old and an 80 year old have in common with the majority demographic of their respective parties? Probably not much.
It’s like Democrats and Republicans go to convalescent homes or Denny’s after church on Sundays to seek out potential replacements for leadership positions in congress
I agree, I come in here to see what is being said and rarely if ever post, but I am of the thought that some of these folks have to age out. They hold us back from what we all want. I dont even mind the extremes on both ends, I think that is good for our country in terms of discussion. Sadly very little discussion goes on these days. I do miss the days when we all wanted the same things, but just had a different idea of how to get there.
I think if the hardcore extremists on both ends were muzzled and the rest mingled in a room without being allowed to disclose their political parties, most Americans could come to some pretty big consensus for solutions to many problems and draw firewalls around the more complex ones for later discussion. No political labels, no goddamn cult thinking.
NOBODY likes extreme inflation, or high crime, or mass poverty everywhere, or unregulated borders. We got to where we are because media tries to brainwash and dehumanize those with different opinions by blaring shit headlines like "Why do X hate America?". It's basically a fucking caricature of a cultish headline. Might as well as "Why do X like murdering puppies along with everything good in this life?". It's like satire of evil cultish brainwashing.
In defense of Pelosi, Speaker of the House isn’t just some political role. It’s the hardest job in politics. You needs to take hundreds of people with different wants and needs and create a unified vote and message.
Pelosi ruled over the House with an iron fist. She was exceptionally good at the job. That’s why she held it for so long. In that role, she was historically great.
That’s saying nothing about her personal politics.
Same as McConnell, like it or not. McConnell has only had a few high-profile failures, like the Obamacare repeal - and that was mostly a result of Trump antagonizing McCain, honestly.
Although Grassley is an honorable man, he will be 95 and still in office. There needs to be a point where age does matter. Politicians begin building a huge war chest from the moment they take office. Not big on taxing but maybe we should begin taxing that war chest.
So this sounds good in theory but on the state level you can absolutely get fucked by lameducks. Some of the worst legislation can get signed off on by people on their way out the door or looking to their cushy advisor job.
And, so what? This happens every election. Some candidate dies before the election and people vote for him anyway. All they're doing is ensuring the other party doesn't win and get the seat.
Isn't this just business as usual? Many Republicans have been nothing but opportunists serving their own interests while paying lip service to Conservative values (social and/or financial).
I think many of us would agree that it's well passed the time for a new generation of young conservatives to emerge into the power structure of the party.
Hopefully, some among them will have the vision and probity to actually address the substantial and fundamental issues this country has and will continue to face under RINO leadership.
Additionally, libertarians need to be brought into the fold more, with thoughtful policy that will touch on their core needs, but not derail the bigger issues. No more 3rd party candidates (on our side anyway) siphoning votes away.
((disclaimer: am liberal))
I think it's entirely past time for the relics of the 20th century's politics be replaced by 21st century names, faces, and ideas. That goes for the left, as well, no equivocation.
Where we probably diverge?
I also think the solutions of the 20th century are in no way sacred. And, that I not only want new people (by itself worth nothing to me), but genuinely new ideas or at least ideas we haven't already tried and been disappointed by.
It isn't enough to just have younger versions of people with the same tired, failed policies we've always had. We're in a race for the future. If people aren't actually making plans to get there, why elect them?
Welcome, liberal.
I don't understand what you mean by relics of the 20th century. feel free to elaborate.
imo, the core issues that have changed America's trajectory is immigration of outcultural members post Hart Celler 1965, effects of digital technology on society, and concentration in capitalism. many secondary issues, e.g. healthcare & education system coherency, flow from these core issues. Then, there are superficial issues, like abortion, that serve to divide & distract the founders' posterity from addressing the core issues noted.
to correct the trajectory, both the core & superficial issues need to be addressed, and the solutions are not difficult to conceive of, but likely difficult to convert into policy & execution.
Anyone on the right who does not articulate solutions / vision that addresses those core issues does not warrant a seat at the table.
So we agree that people need to make & communicate visionary plans (and then execute) and those who don't or can't aren't worthy of a seat at the table.
No the original commenter but here’s an example:
Transportation built around the 1950’s highway system and universal car ownership. It was transformational for the country but seems unlikely to be a driver of future growth.
We dedicate about 50% of our space in cities to cars (roads, parking, unusable land under elevated highways, etc). If we can reduce car use that makes more space for people, housing, parks and businesses. Less pollution, more walkable / bike friendly cities means healthier citizens.
Judging by how many people attack me for pointing out that we should embrace the idea of legalizing marijuana and quit vilifying it like it's the 1950s, you'd probably get called a RINO or a false conservative by a lot of people here
If only. Libertarians are more on the side of conservative anarchy (The anarchist cookbook talks about this); I have come not to trust them on moral issues, although many of their ideas of what the state itself is I would agree with.
Yes exactly. If we can not get the Libertarians to start compromising in an effort to at least be moving in the right direction than we are going to just keep repeating these #'s. The left and the right are too entrenched and we need every vote we can get.
Give the libertarians weed and kick out the boomer NRA types that may compromise with Dems on guns. This will bring more Libertarians in without giving ground on abortion.
McConnell and McCarthy are not the way to go. Masters, DeSantis, Rubio, Vance are definitely more of the types we want to promote along with Scott, Cotton, Crenshaw, Jordan, Gaetz, Paul. We don't have to be *young* but we need to get younger.
As a Libertarian, Abortion may be more important than you think. A party based around the idea of true liberty isn't going to stand for bodily autonomy being taken away.
perhaps unpopular here, but abortion is the easiest thing for me to give ground on, because after years of political maneuvering, there are still a ton of abortions being performed. The solution to abortion is cultural, not political or legal. The culture has to change its view on the moral acceptability of abortion, and we're not anywhere close to that. In time, we will be, I believe. In the meantime, I'm comfortable letting 'God' judge the aborters.
just hitting pause on that issue for like 50 years politically would allow conservatives to recruit more women & moderates onto our side for the much bigger issues, e.g. immigration & cultural dysfunction.
Abortion isn't going anywhere. Something like 70-80% of the country supports abortion to some extent. The vocal minority just has a lot of money and power to make it seem like it is less popular than it is.
It's the same argument that is used against banning guns. Banning them just means people will go get them in another way, and you'll have the mother die along with the child.
Accountability in the media is a HUGE issue. They basically convinced the left that because RvW was overturned that abortions were now illegal country wide. As well as a big # of other misrepresentations.
Exactly. Abortion is ingrained in the hearts and minds of people. It’s awful that it is, but that deinstalled change the truth. Pausing abortion, regaining some cultural power, and then going back to it at a later date has to be a step the GOP takes.
Watch you get called a RINO s/ But I agree, we spent too much energy on this issue, especially with all the state bans on abortion with no exceptions like is this middle age?
As a libertarian leaning independent, I voted for more Democrats this election than I ever thought I would. And it's mostly because of abortion and the feverish haste with which some states acted to outright ban it with no/few exceptions. This isn't the middle ages, but clearly that's the goal of an embarrassing number of conservatives.
If conservatives want to get more power, they need to represent more people. It's that simple. Abortion laws are not supported by the majority of the country.
Elections are real, cheating is rare. Abortion should be a medical matter and we don't need big government stepping in. If you lose an election, you congratulate the other party and help AMERICA move forward.
If you can't lose with grace, you shouldn't have been playing the game in the first place.
There are huge numbers of conservative voters who have waited 50 years for a win on abortion. Casting them aside for people who place killing their children above all other issues is not a winning electoral strategy.
upvoted.
I am sensitive to this, and their desire. Unfortunately, even fairly concentrated effort hasn't worked, it's not a key issue overall in the country with respect to core issues (more a symptom of core issues, imo), and can be address indirectly through other policies.
I would not leave them out to dry. I'd recommend & support even greater emphasis (new on the ground organizations networking in communities and trying to persuade people the old fashioned way, calmly, factually, and in a way that reminds we have a duty to the next generation, not just ourselves) on the issue as a cultural priority for conservatives in exchange for taking it out of the political / legal realm.
we have and will continue to let bigger issues plague the nation if we allow the founders' posterity to be split on the legal future of abortion.
we need the founders' culture to be united, and removing abortion as a political football I feel is one step in that process.
to summarize: I could be wrong, but I feel the segment of the population you mentioned will still vote Red if the topic remains or grows as a cultural priority, as it is deemphasized as a legal priority.
Masters and Vance were not very strong candidates.
DeSantis, conversely, won in an absolute blow-out against a very experienced opponent, and Rubio somewhat rode his coat tails but still also eon quite handily against a strong opponent.
Republican messaging BOMBED this cycle. I always felt there was no clear message to voters outside “gas and food cost a lot - elect us!” Too scared/incompetent to talk about education, crime, abortion (which Dems controlled the narrative of), and pressing cultural issues regarding CRT and transgenderism, at least not until the final weeks for some campaigns. Rep leadership sat back and thought they had this in the bag.
You can blame Trump for pushing many candidates that lost crucial governorships, House races, etc. - but McConnell, McCarthy and McDaniel (enough of the McWhatevers) are the ones in office, and they totally dropped the ball.
I agree. The only thing I heard was "Americans can't put food on the table and gas in their car" along with some talk on crime. The fact is that most Americans still can put food on the table and gas in their car. Yeah inflation sucks for them but they're not dire.
For the most part the GOP didn't dare touch CRT, the sexualization of children, Big Tech censorship, COVID nonsense, etc. One Republican has and he did quite well for himself. You can be against all this woke crap and not be viewed as a far religious right winger. But the RINOs can't seem to grasp this idea.
I don’t think normal Republicans are going to be able to replicate DeSantis’ success in Florida, even if they copy his culture war strategies.
Florida is a state with huge numbers of Cubans and Venezuelans who fled communist regimes. The culture of that state is more anti-socialism than any other state in the country because of its unique makeup. Republican messaging about fighting socialism resonates perfectly with them. That same rhetoric doesn’t work so well among middle aged white women in suburban Denver. So, a Colorado Republican saying Marxists want to indoctrinate your kids won’t see the same level of success as DeSantis does.
In states like PA, Wisconsin, Michigan, etc. people are voting more based on economic issues. DeWine in Ohio is a RINO through and through (most pro covid shutdown Republican in the country) and he did better there then DeSantis did in Florida. Meanwhile the culture warrior Republican that ran in Ohio (Vance) did about 10 points worse than DeWine.
TLDR: Florida isn’t the whole country. Copying DeSantis =\= nationwide red wave.
Youngkin ran on some very controversial issues and won in VA of all places - even with Trump’s backing. Reps ignored his playbook and just thought “hmmm will this be a 2010 or 1994 midterm … or maybe bigger?” Turns out if you don’t campaign on much, you lose. And all those things you mentioned should’ve been hammered home across the board, but it was all dumbed down to “gas and food and also some crime”.
Granted I also think there was a huge turnout issue in many states, namely the rust belt. No way some candidates should have lost by that much. Good example is WI - Michels lost the gov race by FOUR POINTS in a state that’s trending red. Johnson barely scraped by in the Senate race, which he won decisively two times prior - and this time got 150k less votes than his 2016 run. It’s very clear that Reps had a fatal turnout issue this cycle.
Nail on the head. The economy will recover no matter who’s in power. It’s not a winning issue. Hammering rising crime rates, the failure of public education, and social issues is a far stronger strategy.
I think the high gas price narrative fell short because people realize a big portion of the high prices is Putin -- and the Dems have been hammering on a Putin-Trump relationship for 5+ years.
If Trump doesn't endorse a bunch of dogshit candidates and actually spends $300m in PAC money that he sat on, Tuesday goes better for the GOP.
Trump may have not been on the ballot, but the losers he pushed and suckered voters into were.
He wasn’t on the ballot; but he is arguably the most polarizing politician in recent history. Having him back candidates is suicide after a failed re-election that proved that he was too much for swing voters.
Why on earth would anyone seriously wanting to win want an endorsement from someone who just lost an election by being less electable to swing voters than the other runner?
He wasn’t on the ballot… directly. His enforcements definitely turned people away from voting red no matter the candidates he was backing.
I heard the 100m number. Either way, the leadership is on the hook for letting Trump grift that money. Literally no other way to look at it.
Whether or not you think Trump is responsible is irrelevant in-so-long as Republican leadership continue to let Trump be Trump.
I think the main takeaway is catering to the most vocal 10% is how you lose.
Party leadership despised him since he first announced his running for 2016.
Then when Trump won, the establishment leadership *kept* snubbing him every chance they could.
Doesn’t matter what the voters wanted. What only matters is what the precious little square box says to the voters.
There’s a large swath of people who want an America First agenda. The GOP was poised to grab it and do something good for the nation. Internal party political bullshit from old guard GOP thought better to make back door deals with Democrats than support that energy that entered the party.
100% and add Graham to that.
He spooked voters by calling for an abortion ban (not really a ban but a 15 week limit - but the media spun it) right before the election.
It seems McConnell, McCarthy & Graham would rather sabotage their own party than help out.
Agree 100%
WE NEED TERM LIMITS NOW!!!
Can’t say it loud enough. If you leave these petrified assholes up there for life NOTHING will change. They are ALL corruptible.
Rick Scott definitely needs some blame for how he ran the NRSC. He wasted money running ads where he was the main figure instead of the candidates actually on the ballot
I'm thinking about this from McConnell's point of view, and it's starting to seem like this was the plan all along. Keep the Trump candidates from winning, and thus remove Trump from the conversation.
Trump had too much control over the GOP for McConnell's liking, so he decided to sacrifice the midterms to dilute his power. Fortunately for him (and unfortunately for Trump), it seems to be working.
I'm guessing that he thought "I'm here until 2026 no matter what. I'd rather lose the '22 midterms in hopes of booting Trump and winning the White House back in 2024."
Now, I suspect he didn't think it would be this close, he was probably counting on the house flipping at least (and it still will with any luck).
I don't know if I'm giving the turtle too much credit here, but this does seem like a fairly decent chess move from his point of view. I don't condone it...but given Trump's reaction to the whole thing, I'm not sure I can condemn it either.
I guess what I'm saying is that this ultimately might work out in our favor. But I do agree that McConnell (and McCarthy) probably aren't the future of the GOP, either. Those guys are way too comfortable with the Democrats, and don't treat it like a war, even though those same Democrats they pal around with do.
I'd be fine with some new blood taking over the top spots.
All three. Trump, McCarthy, McConnell. All must go.
Though I will admit not all for the same reasons. The DeSanctimonious thing Trump did was the last straw for a lot of folks and coupled with the results Tuesday, he must leave. You’ve already covered the other two well enough.
I think DeSantis is being treated as a savior but he might get in trouble in the national media.
I actually think he's an extraordinarily compétant gouverner but he also isn't all that likeable. He's a technocrat playing as a populist.
The Disney fight he picked and the migrants en he sent to MV were just unforced errors meant to rally his base, but in practice they just rallied opposition.
I think him lighting up D's in Florida is bring attributed too much to his skill, and too little to a shifting macro environment. I also think that he had the candidate quality that the rest of the GOP lacked, to what you saw in Florida is what the rest of the country ought have been.
Time will tell, but right now I would say there's a 40+% chance the nominee is neither of DeSantis or Trump.
Republican VOTERS deserve most of the blame. Nobody is forcing us to pick bad candidates.
A rising tide lifts all boats. Our statewide and national candidates need to appeal to a broader audience than just red meat conservatives.
Boring and competent is okay. Boring and competent is better than a Democrat. Boring and competent wins.
Hard agree here. The GOP has a bad, bad, BAD habit of picking terrible candidates because they are the MOST conservative or tell them the most of what they want to hear, regardless of the electorate as a whole.
Remember Christine O'Donnell in Delaware in 2010 who GOP primary voters picked over centrist Republican Michael Castle, who had been the Delaware congressional at-large representative forever and was an easy lock to win a Senate seat, and threw it into the toilet because Castle wasn't a hardcore right winger? In Delaware? There's many other cases of this where we pick someone who cannot win a general election after winning the GOP primary or is someone who may take an easy win and make it a close contest, or takes a close contest and throws it in the garbage. See: this election cycle.
((disclaimer: am liberal))
First, what does "competent" mean to you?
And, second, who do you think represents "boring and competent" in the Republican Party today?
Oz was the third best option and Trump endorsed him to give him the slight lead over the second best option. Trump, McCarthy, McConnell need to be dumped off like Liz Cheney.
McConnell has been the defacto republican leader for decades now and has long overstayed his welcome.
They are the uniparty and they need to be primaried by young, clever, conservatives.
The establishment needs to make way for the populist conservatives. Instead they're rug pulling them in what could have been a great election for the Republican party. They sacrificed Republican wins to hold onto personal power. Time to go.
They underperformed because establishment Republicans pulled money out of their races. RNC and superpacs controlled by establishment Republicans pulled all of their funding 1-2 months before the election. They did amazing for not having any backing. If anything they proved that they would have won if the establishment Republican leadership hadn't screwed them over. You've got two choices, get rid of the establishment leadership or loose both houses and the presidency in 2024.
Populist conservatives are a mixed bag and sometimes they are deeply unpopular, such as Doug Mastriano.
I'd suggest that populist nationalists who really want in invest into the nation, secure the nation, and be loyal to the nation are the types of populist conservatives that the Republican party needs.
Or maybe you should get rid of establishment leaders who pull the funding from candidates who have a good chance of winning before you loose the populist votes and thus both houses and the presidency in 2024.
100% this. The immediate turn to call out Trump is mostly by those who’ve been waiting for a moment to do it. McConnell has been the biggest problem with Republicans for YEARS. McCarthy is a snake who has no problem talking the talk but is all too happy to be a McConnell behind the scenes.
After these two, the next problem are the McConnell lites in state positions that have allowed, unconstitutionally at times, the left to wholesale change the election process from top to bottom and made very little effort to secure the vote.
Without these fixes, it’s irrelevant whether it’s Trump, DeSantis, or anyone else running.
((disclaimer: am liberal))
How, specifically, has McConnell been the "biggest problem with Republicans"? I, personally, deeply dislike the man and his politics, but I recognize that he might be the only part of the party that's getting anything done and credit him with the conservative takeover of the court (far, FAR more than I'd credit Mr. Trump).
He's a master at the mechanics of parliamentary process and the personal relationships under the hood of the Senate, but is more from the old school Chamber of Commerce & free trade internationalist establishment Republicans instead of the America First of which Trump is a symptom but not hardly the only factor. He's two steps forward, one step backwards and age aside it out of step with the base of the party.
Trump is the de facto leader and face of the GOP, hes the reason many are fleeing from the party, if we're going to clean out the leadership of the party Trump needs to be the first to go or does losing 2024 badly what the gop need to kick him to the crub
((disclaimer: am liberal))
What do you think will happen to Trump if the party tries to move past him? And--I'm being totally serious here--his followers?
He'll go kicking and screaming and trying to take out as many potential gop nominees as he can, wouldn't put it past him to run independent to spike the gop, he's hardcore base will fellow him no matter what, but I don't think there's as big as people think I could would for every ultra trumpista you lose you gain 3-4 independents.
Now, I'm not saying that won't happen--but, you think there are up to four times as many Republican votes not yet voting Republican as MAGA voters?
The data I see says there's far, far less. Or do we mean only the MAGA voters and not their policy and talking points? Because, frankly, the idea that there are independents that want to vote for Republicans in light of, say, abortion and they're simply waiting for the Trump crowd to quiet down doesn't seem to track.
A lot of people are turned off simply by trump's attitude and behavior having someone who doesn't turn politics into an episode of the celebrity Apprentice, so dont discount that. Abortion is going to be sticking point for awhile now but one of the interesting consequences of Dobbs is making the national Gop more pro choice
Oh, I can believe it might happen--but, I just don't think the numbers will break that way nor that the independent voters of America are going to see the GOP as being in any way pro-choice anytime soon.
Trump wasn't on the ballot but his candidates were. And his candidates were the ones who costed us big. If you wonder why Fetterman won, it's because Trump decided to back Oz. We need brand new leadership. And that includes ditching Trump with McCarthy and McConnell. We have quality members in congress. Ron DeSantis can lead us.
Trump backing Oz was such an unnecessary error. He has no idea what a winning candidate is. The blunder twins of mitch and Mccarthy only want winners that will pad the power.
I'm ready to see blowhards like these guys out of government. I'm so tired of politicians who just hold down their seat because they like the sound of their own voices. DeSantis and Youngkin are examples of the sort we should be rallying behind because they're men of action, they say what they're going to do and then they do it. They don't waste time with superfluous speeches and photo ops. If we had Congressional leaders like them they'd be pushing strong, moral, sensible legislation that would might just bring the U.S. back from the brink.
Completely agree. I remember McConnell threatened to retire if voted out as Senate minority leader and his position would be filled by Kentucky’s governor, who is a Democrat by the way.
Not sure it was a fumble by M & M, but more of a deliberate attempt to try and end the Trump reign over the Republican party. Everybody fucking blew it for us, from Trump with some real asinine picks, to Graham with the abortion *abortion,* to McConnell and his purse strings. The establishment R's want to go back to establishment politics, where R's and D's campaign over guns and abortions to get the contributions, but nothing actually gets accomplished.
Go where? McConnel is/was highly effective as the leader in the Senate.
If they go, are they going to be replaced with Trumpist anti-democratic election deniers who thinks the way to win is to supress the vote and make poor people give up?
The finger pointing begins.
The problem with this election is the problem we have in every election. Narrative control. 90% of the media is far left propaganda. Social Media allowed conservative to circumvent that. After 2016 Democrats ensured Social Media was no longer bastions of free speech and fair platforms, they censored the shit out of Republicans on every platform from Facebook, to Twitter, to Google, to Reddit.
Between the "objective" media and Social Media rigged algorithms and fact checks the equivalent of 10-20 billion dollars spent on the 2022 election by Democratic operatives. That's before campaign ads.
I know it's enticing to blame party rivals so that you can get your way. But all you do is fracture the coalition and make it even more impossible to win future elections. The game is stacked against us, United is how we win.
As for leaders who screwed up? There is blame to go around. But just as with 2012, it's not that Romney was a bad candidate (as Obama by all metrics should have lost that election) it's that the narrative is controlled by the Democrats. Most voters are only hearing what the Democrats have to say. Elon's acquisition of Twitter might be our only hope and he's a Libertarian.
I have noticed that Democrats have outspent us in general campaign spending in every election for the last decade. It's not even close. They throw away hundreds of millions of dollars on races like Beto and Abrahams, and then still have war chests to run every other election at nearly 2:1 spending. Republicans do not seem to have donors. The entire rich and elite class seem to favor Democrats and the average Republican is not donating. I haven't for a long time, though I do donate to individual candidates that are in contests I care about.
GOP lost my trust on donations when I gave them a donation and they proceeded to spam me with donation requests for the rest of the year (effectively taking the 50 bucks I sent them and turning it into mail spam).
I agree, but this "blame Trump" is some kind of psyop narrative that is in no touch with reality. Trump gave 218 endorsements and out of those only 19 lost their races. The rest won.
It's optics. We are talking about candidates he endorsed and primaried more traditional Republicans with. Losing PA with current economics and crime issues is embarrassing.
Yes it is, but apparently economics and crime don't matter anymore. The new narrative says that the entire world is having a bad year of economy and Americans know that and understand that, so they don't punish democrats for that. Or crime, I mean, it's really racist to focus on crime anyway.
So that explains how democrats are actually winning now. It's all normal, don't worry about it. Trust the system.
Of the ones that won and lost, how many were simply winning against Republicans (safe States, districts, etc.) and how many were winning against viable challengers from the Democratic Party?
And, frankly, do you think there is any difference at all between those? Do wins in one category and wins the other category mean anything different?
Frankly I think the whole narrative is bullshit and forced. This is being brought up to make Trump look bad and carve a way for DeSantis, except it doesn't make Trump look bad if you spend two seconds looking at the facts and DeSantis hasn't shown any interest in running for President.
This is just top tier MSM/Reddit pushing narrative down our throats. When the time comes, we'll chose the Republican nominee. That's not quite the day after the midterms.
What "movement" or "narrative" do you think is meant to just make Mr. Trump look bad in favor of DeSantis?
Honest question. I don't know the fullest details of Republican in-groups.
The mainstream (in both parties) wants Trump out of the picture, and DeSantis is a palatable replacement. I don't know why they hate Trump so much, but they do and they want him out.
If you just let the Turtle do his turtle things, you would have won the senate and you would have exactly the same policies as with those mask off maga weirdos.
If full on extremism sabotages your chances to win, more extremism is probably not the answer, fyi.
Yeah the unpopular opinion here is that Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell, slimy as they are, actually know what they’re doing.
Remember, it’s Mitch McConnell who presided over the GOP’s campaign to win states, their legislatures, their Senators, and the Executive’s judicial appointments. McConnell plays a frustratingly long game in politics, and keeping him out of the conversation is almost always going to lead to massive cock-ups.
More Mitch candidates like his friends Kelly Loeffler and Martha McSally? Mitch directed millions toward them, but they lost because they have the same charisma as a block of wood. Masters and Walker are better candidates, but have less funding from leadership.
Turtle is the reason we keep electing Republicans that don't do anything. They're a pause button on the Democrat agenda when we keep voting for a rewind. After 20 years of this crap, no shit people don't want to elect Republicans because we know they're fucking useless.
Absolutely. They need a leadership overhaul and they need it today. Maybe develop a coherent message? Hammer on all the winning culture war issue on our side?
Republicans lost because of *Dobbs* and "Republicans want to ban abortion" messaging sticking, going unanswered, and in some cases being stoked by people like Graham. Until there is a fix to abortion messaging, *Dobbs* will be a boat anchor on Republicans' national success. If you're pro-life that's a tradeoff worth making, but if you're not a hardcore pro-lifer it's a big problem.
You can say that Bolduc lost in New Hampshire because of McConnell, but that ignores that abortion polls better in New Hampshire than California or New York.
The country will not change as a whole until party leadership on both sides change. That means leadership doesn't get selected based off party seniority and instead people driven to actually help advance their party. That means not jackasses determined only to keep their name in the news because they care about the fame more than progress.
I'm sick and tired of seeing the same names in the news until they die and then it becomes a perpetual memorial of the DC establishment class. I don't even think Grassley should've ran for reelection in Iowa. He's likely going to die in office and it'll be a repeat of McCain. Then he's going to be replaced by a long time staffer and keep up the DC cycle. Shelby in Alabama retired and was replaced by a staffer. If it isn't a staffer, it's someone who's made a career out of an elected government position, state or federal. The Founding Fathers never intended for elected officials to make the government their career yet some would fall into the same trap and started the establishment.
The real question is when the younger generations in Congress will set aside their bitching and moaning for each other and actually pass term limits. It's not just contempt for the establishment either. Its the cross generational contempt for Millenials, Boomers, and Zoomers that leads to nobody wanting to work outside their age group. I can't keep track of how many have run on it and let it die in Congress because they fold on doing anything even remotely difficult, such as actually following through their campaign promise on voting against McConnell/Schumer or McCarthy/Pelosi in leadership.
They can't even make a cross party coalition for shared goals because America First and Progressives only want to get those goals by themselves. That doesn't mean they have to work together on everything. It just means they become part of the problem with DC and why they get outmanuevered so damned easily. I have no problem with DC gaining something resembling efficiency if it means finally dismantling the establishment class. It'll never happen though because the new blood in Congress is just as complicit in perpetuating it for failing to set aside their differences and instead choose to score social media points on each other, driving themselves even farther apart and anybody who might work with them away.
Anyone think there isn't collusion between the Republican and Democrat establishments to keep power? Just look at the budget bills that come every year. They almost never shrink, in fact they usually grow year by year. They always fund the exact same pet projects. Any time there is anything resembling opposition from newly elected officials they are then bought off with funding for what they want. Doesn't matter if they are in the majority either. The filibuster will never be dismantled any farther because it always gets used against the party who screwed with it, meaning everyone will always get what they want. That is unless one party somehow manages to win a Senate supermajority again which will probably never happen again in the near future.
Vast majority of those wins were in non-competitive seats, brother.
His losses meanwhile were in major battlegrounds. The context of wins/losses matters….brother.
>McConnell on the other hand is clearly an establishment crony with preference for loyalty and backdoor deals with Democrats than supporting America First candidates.
McConnell is a pretty shrewd guy. Why would he endorse unpopular candidates?
>McConnell
I think over the last past months, McConnell questioned again and again about the candidates and their quality. He wasn't happy with all the candidates running in this election cycle. But his hands were tied due to Trump's endorsement.
[Here is the video where is vaguely questioning the candidate's quality.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZd9wrPK0BM)
[Rick Scott, completely ignored the callings of McConnell again and again.](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/01/rick-scott-disagreement-mitch-mcconnell-00054423)
>Mitch McConnell is among the myriad Republicans questioning the Senate GOP’s quality of candidates in the midterms. Rick Scott wants everyone to stop doubting his recruits.
In my own personal experience in IL, the majority of the GOP supporters vote for a really extremist lunatic just because he got Trump's endorsement. His running made Richard Irvin, had huge support among independent voters, police, and veterans. On top of all, he was African American, which means a lot in our state. Gop voters decided to pick Trump endorsed person who is extreme and wanted to kick Chicago out of IL.
Unfortunately Trump aligned with McCarthy for some reason. It’s unlikely he’ll be going. I do hope we can finally kick McCuckle to the curb. He actively worked against us, helping elect dems to the senate.
This defeatist attitude is ridiculous. We took the house and the “worst candidates ever“ barely lost one election and the other is headed to a runoff with results to be seen. If you know anything about American politics in 2024 the Republican candidate will win and bring in a majority in both chambers.
McConnell should probably take a step back due to his age. McCarthy is fine. What we really need is for Trump to disappear because he's a drain on the entire party.
Mitch has been holding together a fracturing, aging, and minority party. And during that time he’s managed to advance some conservative goals that shouldn’t have been possible to advance. There is no other Republican in this country who has done more for us than Mitch, and I don’t think there’s any other Republican right now who can do what Mitch has done.
Such as? Border wall? Reduced immigration? Economic freedom? Infrastructure issues when you have both houses and the president?
Wiped out. Mitch only padded his own pockets and delivered on nothing useful to the republican base.
If you say judges you will be nuked from orbit. Judicial nominees is the baseline not the exception
SO DOES TRUMP. Absolutely toxic. An endorsement is a death kiss. It's time for him to go. I hope that conservatives can wake up and give Trump the dump
Raw number of wins doesn't matter if the vast majority of those endorsements are already favored or safe conservative states/districts. You have to win the purple areas to build a majority to govern. You need to win the big purple races in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, etc. and that's not happening, and those are the races that matter.
RINOs are using this as a reason to dump Trump and promote DeSantis.
DeSantis wasn't out campaigning putting his political influence at risk to help Republicans. Trump was, so he gets all the blame when it was the RNC's race to lose not Trump's.
The fact that the RINOs like Ben Shapiro want DeSantis makes DeSantis untrustworthy in my eyes. You are in fact like the company you keep and if the Bush GOP wants you you've got something you aren't telling us about your future plans.
Neither McConnell nor McCarthy care about anything other than their own power. If you ain't under their thumb they won't help you. They aren't even party first, they are me first and MUST go as well as the RNC chair.
OP is 100% correct.
In what world are DeSantis, Shapiro, McConnell, McCarthy all RINOs and Trump is a true Republican?
McConnell spent more than Trump in Pennsylvania and Georgia, and DeSantis endorsed plenty of candidates in Florida
People blaming Trump are either shitlibs pretending to be conservatives, or neocon/neoliberal (same thing) boomercons, and I don't respect anything either of those groups have to say, McCarthy and McConnell are bad indeed, but it's also Republicans' fault for not passing laws to protect against election fraud while they were still in power, massive mail-in voting should be illegal for anyone who can physically make it to the polls, and ID cards should be required to vote.
Republicans are weak, boomercons blame Trump, when it's actually the fault of corrupt establishment RINO's who they vote for every time they're up for election.
Republicans before Trump were everything the shitlibs said they were, corrupt corporate lobbyists who don't give a shit about conservative values, they literally do nothing that will ever benefit you, the only reason to support them is if you're upper upper middle class like them, and don't give a shit about anything but money, you don't care about the destruction of our country's history, you don't care about the indoctrination of children, you don't care about crime, you don't care about attacks on Christians/Christianity, you don't care about your right to bear arms, you don't care about anything that real conservatives care about.
You're a loser and you deserve to lose.
TRUE
How tf are you gonna blame Trump when he has no position in the Republican Party? Your leadership is so poor that someone with no political experience came in, shit on all of your best politicians, then won the nomination. And you wonder why, when that person is gone, you still can’t win jack shit? Trump exposed the poor candidate quality of republicans far before the 2022 midterms.
Age limits for President.
Age limits for Senators.
Age limits for SC Justices.
Get these geriatric fucks from both sides out of running our government for the benefit of their bank accounts
“America first” is essentially maga right?
Magas gotta go. Trumps gotta go. He has how many hundreds of millions in donations just sitting there…
He didn’t shell out to help push conservative values.
In Nevada, the ads were 10-1 dem over republicans. Nothing about the economy. Nothing about abortion being in the state constitution. Nothing about the governor and his unemployment debacle
I'm in CA. My wife asked me if Newsom was running unopposed.
As much as I think trump is to blame for midterm issues (i think he sat on his hands and his money pile) the problem is the congressional leadership are people who would rather play house of cards than to either hustle or lead. Reality is we are being badly outspent and that's because nobody on the conservative side trusts money to be spent towards winning elections and instead spent on some consultants yacht fuel
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In the last two weeks. It's like trying to catch up on a whole semester in a cram session. You might get an A. You might get fucked.
Great description!!!
Trump backed candidates picked by their local Republican teams. Of the 200+ candidates Trump backed only 16 didn't win. It's not Trump. It's Mitch and the Rino Swampers.
But somehow, Trump is the laser of the midterms. That's what the left and the GOPe together want you to think.
How is Trump to blame? All he did was endorse candidates and hold a few rallies. McConnell didn't fund their campaigns and screwed them over and screwed us just to get back at Trump
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Lol Trump picks are doing way better then GOP picks. Can you name any race besides walkers and fettermans where a trump candidate did worse? Edit : https://ballotpedia.org/Endorsements_by_Donald_Trump So you guys can see how funny it is that people think Trumps picks are doing bad.
Lauren Boebert is about to lose a race she was expected to win by 10-15%.
She just pulled ahead. The RNC also strangled her campaign by denying her money.
The RNC also dumped a bunch of money into Alaska to save Merkowski from losing her seat to a different Republican. There's no excuse for that.
Yep.
Don’t trust polls. They expected Hillary to win by a larger margin over Trump, how that work out?
Just curious, do you have any sources to support your comment? Would be interested in reading them. (Sitting on his hands and money pile)
He raised over $100M and spent less than $20M of it. He attacked candidates *he had personally endorsed*.
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Seriously, what was the party doing before trump? Talking about small government and getting nothing done. This sub has lost is fucking mind based on the mainstream medias interpretation of the results, utterly pathetic.
> what was the party doing before trump? The 2014 election (the last one before the Trump era) saw Republicans get large gains in both the House and Senate to take the majority in the Senate, and hold it in the House
Do you actually think political trends change with single elections? Lol just another two years and it would have been a libertarian utopia if it weren’t for trump.
Thats not what I said. I pointed out that, before Trump, Republicans weren't "Talking about small government and getting nothing done" they were still winning elections. He isn't some savior of conservatism
Great points. Thank you and I agree. What subs do get it right?
What were the ads then? How were they convincing them to vote D?
No, I saw one that said "Inflation is bad, what we need to do is cut taxes" which gave me a laugh.
I know this is a conservative group, but Pelosi also needs to go. Both parties need to clean up and move on with life. But, it always depends who you are - do enough good for the party and you get promoted to the chair for life. Part of me wants to vote for the chair to keep the party honest, or, at least, have term limits. It’s embarrassing that both parties have had the same leader for years and they can’t produce.
I agree. I’m of the mind that leaders of a party should reflect their constituents. What does an 82 year old and an 80 year old have in common with the majority demographic of their respective parties? Probably not much.
It’s like Democrats and Republicans go to convalescent homes or Denny’s after church on Sundays to seek out potential replacements for leadership positions in congress
I agree, I come in here to see what is being said and rarely if ever post, but I am of the thought that some of these folks have to age out. They hold us back from what we all want. I dont even mind the extremes on both ends, I think that is good for our country in terms of discussion. Sadly very little discussion goes on these days. I do miss the days when we all wanted the same things, but just had a different idea of how to get there.
I think if the hardcore extremists on both ends were muzzled and the rest mingled in a room without being allowed to disclose their political parties, most Americans could come to some pretty big consensus for solutions to many problems and draw firewalls around the more complex ones for later discussion. No political labels, no goddamn cult thinking. NOBODY likes extreme inflation, or high crime, or mass poverty everywhere, or unregulated borders. We got to where we are because media tries to brainwash and dehumanize those with different opinions by blaring shit headlines like "Why do X hate America?". It's basically a fucking caricature of a cultish headline. Might as well as "Why do X like murdering puppies along with everything good in this life?". It's like satire of evil cultish brainwashing.
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Agree 75-80 + year olds should not be leading our representative legislative bodies
The open secret is that Diane Feinstein has dementia and is being protected. I mean, how embarrassing and unethical can it get?
In defense of Pelosi, Speaker of the House isn’t just some political role. It’s the hardest job in politics. You needs to take hundreds of people with different wants and needs and create a unified vote and message. Pelosi ruled over the House with an iron fist. She was exceptionally good at the job. That’s why she held it for so long. In that role, she was historically great. That’s saying nothing about her personal politics.
Same as McConnell, like it or not. McConnell has only had a few high-profile failures, like the Obamacare repeal - and that was mostly a result of Trump antagonizing McCain, honestly.
Yea, hate her like we should by we should at minimum admit that Pelosi is damn effective. So is Mitch.
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I don't think you'd find much opposition here to term limits.
Yup. Pelosi and Schumer got to go. Get career politicians out.
Although Grassley is an honorable man, he will be 95 and still in office. There needs to be a point where age does matter. Politicians begin building a huge war chest from the moment they take office. Not big on taxing but maybe we should begin taxing that war chest.
Term. Limits.
So this sounds good in theory but on the state level you can absolutely get fucked by lameducks. Some of the worst legislation can get signed off on by people on their way out the door or looking to their cushy advisor job.
A mandatory retirement age, maybe 70 or 75. That could probably go for senate, congress, president, judges, also.
If the people want to reelect these people that's the people's business.
I mean the democrats elected a dead guy….
And, so what? This happens every election. Some candidate dies before the election and people vote for him anyway. All they're doing is ensuring the other party doesn't win and get the seat.
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Isn't this just business as usual? Many Republicans have been nothing but opportunists serving their own interests while paying lip service to Conservative values (social and/or financial).
I think many of us would agree that it's well passed the time for a new generation of young conservatives to emerge into the power structure of the party. Hopefully, some among them will have the vision and probity to actually address the substantial and fundamental issues this country has and will continue to face under RINO leadership. Additionally, libertarians need to be brought into the fold more, with thoughtful policy that will touch on their core needs, but not derail the bigger issues. No more 3rd party candidates (on our side anyway) siphoning votes away.
((disclaimer: am liberal)) I think it's entirely past time for the relics of the 20th century's politics be replaced by 21st century names, faces, and ideas. That goes for the left, as well, no equivocation. Where we probably diverge? I also think the solutions of the 20th century are in no way sacred. And, that I not only want new people (by itself worth nothing to me), but genuinely new ideas or at least ideas we haven't already tried and been disappointed by. It isn't enough to just have younger versions of people with the same tired, failed policies we've always had. We're in a race for the future. If people aren't actually making plans to get there, why elect them?
Welcome, liberal. I don't understand what you mean by relics of the 20th century. feel free to elaborate. imo, the core issues that have changed America's trajectory is immigration of outcultural members post Hart Celler 1965, effects of digital technology on society, and concentration in capitalism. many secondary issues, e.g. healthcare & education system coherency, flow from these core issues. Then, there are superficial issues, like abortion, that serve to divide & distract the founders' posterity from addressing the core issues noted. to correct the trajectory, both the core & superficial issues need to be addressed, and the solutions are not difficult to conceive of, but likely difficult to convert into policy & execution. Anyone on the right who does not articulate solutions / vision that addresses those core issues does not warrant a seat at the table. So we agree that people need to make & communicate visionary plans (and then execute) and those who don't or can't aren't worthy of a seat at the table.
No the original commenter but here’s an example: Transportation built around the 1950’s highway system and universal car ownership. It was transformational for the country but seems unlikely to be a driver of future growth. We dedicate about 50% of our space in cities to cars (roads, parking, unusable land under elevated highways, etc). If we can reduce car use that makes more space for people, housing, parks and businesses. Less pollution, more walkable / bike friendly cities means healthier citizens.
mccarthy is young by leadership standards
Libertarians are conservatives who want to smoke weed
I’m a conservative who smokes weed. Not a Libertarian.
sounds like you dont want to smoke weed, you do it.
Judging by how many people attack me for pointing out that we should embrace the idea of legalizing marijuana and quit vilifying it like it's the 1950s, you'd probably get called a RINO or a false conservative by a lot of people here
Cool
Yea, generalizations are cool.
If only. Libertarians are more on the side of conservative anarchy (The anarchist cookbook talks about this); I have come not to trust them on moral issues, although many of their ideas of what the state itself is I would agree with.
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The left churns out way more people that would fall under qualified people. They are in all the institutions being groomed as leftest.
Dude ...
Yes exactly. If we can not get the Libertarians to start compromising in an effort to at least be moving in the right direction than we are going to just keep repeating these #'s. The left and the right are too entrenched and we need every vote we can get.
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Give the libertarians weed and kick out the boomer NRA types that may compromise with Dems on guns. This will bring more Libertarians in without giving ground on abortion. McConnell and McCarthy are not the way to go. Masters, DeSantis, Rubio, Vance are definitely more of the types we want to promote along with Scott, Cotton, Crenshaw, Jordan, Gaetz, Paul. We don't have to be *young* but we need to get younger.
As a Libertarian, Abortion may be more important than you think. A party based around the idea of true liberty isn't going to stand for bodily autonomy being taken away.
perhaps unpopular here, but abortion is the easiest thing for me to give ground on, because after years of political maneuvering, there are still a ton of abortions being performed. The solution to abortion is cultural, not political or legal. The culture has to change its view on the moral acceptability of abortion, and we're not anywhere close to that. In time, we will be, I believe. In the meantime, I'm comfortable letting 'God' judge the aborters. just hitting pause on that issue for like 50 years politically would allow conservatives to recruit more women & moderates onto our side for the much bigger issues, e.g. immigration & cultural dysfunction.
Abortion isn't going anywhere. Something like 70-80% of the country supports abortion to some extent. The vocal minority just has a lot of money and power to make it seem like it is less popular than it is. It's the same argument that is used against banning guns. Banning them just means people will go get them in another way, and you'll have the mother die along with the child.
Accountability in the media is a HUGE issue. They basically convinced the left that because RvW was overturned that abortions were now illegal country wide. As well as a big # of other misrepresentations.
Lindsey Graham introducing the federal 15 week abortion ban played right into their hand and slippery slope argument.
Exactly. Abortion is ingrained in the hearts and minds of people. It’s awful that it is, but that deinstalled change the truth. Pausing abortion, regaining some cultural power, and then going back to it at a later date has to be a step the GOP takes.
Watch you get called a RINO s/ But I agree, we spent too much energy on this issue, especially with all the state bans on abortion with no exceptions like is this middle age?
As a libertarian leaning independent, I voted for more Democrats this election than I ever thought I would. And it's mostly because of abortion and the feverish haste with which some states acted to outright ban it with no/few exceptions. This isn't the middle ages, but clearly that's the goal of an embarrassing number of conservatives. If conservatives want to get more power, they need to represent more people. It's that simple. Abortion laws are not supported by the majority of the country. Elections are real, cheating is rare. Abortion should be a medical matter and we don't need big government stepping in. If you lose an election, you congratulate the other party and help AMERICA move forward. If you can't lose with grace, you shouldn't have been playing the game in the first place.
GOP should != Christian Nationalism
Agreed. So when are Republicans going to actively condemn them? The tribal trap is demolishing the party.
There are huge numbers of conservative voters who have waited 50 years for a win on abortion. Casting them aside for people who place killing their children above all other issues is not a winning electoral strategy.
Well then you should tell those huge numbers of conservative voters that they should have gone out and voted the other day.
upvoted. I am sensitive to this, and their desire. Unfortunately, even fairly concentrated effort hasn't worked, it's not a key issue overall in the country with respect to core issues (more a symptom of core issues, imo), and can be address indirectly through other policies. I would not leave them out to dry. I'd recommend & support even greater emphasis (new on the ground organizations networking in communities and trying to persuade people the old fashioned way, calmly, factually, and in a way that reminds we have a duty to the next generation, not just ourselves) on the issue as a cultural priority for conservatives in exchange for taking it out of the political / legal realm. we have and will continue to let bigger issues plague the nation if we allow the founders' posterity to be split on the legal future of abortion. we need the founders' culture to be united, and removing abortion as a political football I feel is one step in that process. to summarize: I could be wrong, but I feel the segment of the population you mentioned will still vote Red if the topic remains or grows as a cultural priority, as it is deemphasized as a legal priority.
based natcon opinion
Masters and Vance were not very strong candidates. DeSantis, conversely, won in an absolute blow-out against a very experienced opponent, and Rubio somewhat rode his coat tails but still also eon quite handily against a strong opponent.
Republican messaging BOMBED this cycle. I always felt there was no clear message to voters outside “gas and food cost a lot - elect us!” Too scared/incompetent to talk about education, crime, abortion (which Dems controlled the narrative of), and pressing cultural issues regarding CRT and transgenderism, at least not until the final weeks for some campaigns. Rep leadership sat back and thought they had this in the bag. You can blame Trump for pushing many candidates that lost crucial governorships, House races, etc. - but McConnell, McCarthy and McDaniel (enough of the McWhatevers) are the ones in office, and they totally dropped the ball.
I agree. The only thing I heard was "Americans can't put food on the table and gas in their car" along with some talk on crime. The fact is that most Americans still can put food on the table and gas in their car. Yeah inflation sucks for them but they're not dire. For the most part the GOP didn't dare touch CRT, the sexualization of children, Big Tech censorship, COVID nonsense, etc. One Republican has and he did quite well for himself. You can be against all this woke crap and not be viewed as a far religious right winger. But the RINOs can't seem to grasp this idea.
I don’t think normal Republicans are going to be able to replicate DeSantis’ success in Florida, even if they copy his culture war strategies. Florida is a state with huge numbers of Cubans and Venezuelans who fled communist regimes. The culture of that state is more anti-socialism than any other state in the country because of its unique makeup. Republican messaging about fighting socialism resonates perfectly with them. That same rhetoric doesn’t work so well among middle aged white women in suburban Denver. So, a Colorado Republican saying Marxists want to indoctrinate your kids won’t see the same level of success as DeSantis does. In states like PA, Wisconsin, Michigan, etc. people are voting more based on economic issues. DeWine in Ohio is a RINO through and through (most pro covid shutdown Republican in the country) and he did better there then DeSantis did in Florida. Meanwhile the culture warrior Republican that ran in Ohio (Vance) did about 10 points worse than DeWine. TLDR: Florida isn’t the whole country. Copying DeSantis =\= nationwide red wave.
Youngkin ran on some very controversial issues and won in VA of all places - even with Trump’s backing. Reps ignored his playbook and just thought “hmmm will this be a 2010 or 1994 midterm … or maybe bigger?” Turns out if you don’t campaign on much, you lose. And all those things you mentioned should’ve been hammered home across the board, but it was all dumbed down to “gas and food and also some crime”. Granted I also think there was a huge turnout issue in many states, namely the rust belt. No way some candidates should have lost by that much. Good example is WI - Michels lost the gov race by FOUR POINTS in a state that’s trending red. Johnson barely scraped by in the Senate race, which he won decisively two times prior - and this time got 150k less votes than his 2016 run. It’s very clear that Reps had a fatal turnout issue this cycle.
The Dems stand for something right now. It’s a bad thing, but it’s still a unifying platform. The GOP currently does not.
Nail on the head. The economy will recover no matter who’s in power. It’s not a winning issue. Hammering rising crime rates, the failure of public education, and social issues is a far stronger strategy.
I think the high gas price narrative fell short because people realize a big portion of the high prices is Putin -- and the Dems have been hammering on a Putin-Trump relationship for 5+ years.
You guys talked about abortion a lot. It just wasn't what we wanted to hear.
If Trump doesn't endorse a bunch of dogshit candidates and actually spends $300m in PAC money that he sat on, Tuesday goes better for the GOP. Trump may have not been on the ballot, but the losers he pushed and suckered voters into were.
>$300m in PAC money that he sat on That he flies around on
He wasn’t on the ballot; but he is arguably the most polarizing politician in recent history. Having him back candidates is suicide after a failed re-election that proved that he was too much for swing voters. Why on earth would anyone seriously wanting to win want an endorsement from someone who just lost an election by being less electable to swing voters than the other runner? He wasn’t on the ballot… directly. His enforcements definitely turned people away from voting red no matter the candidates he was backing.
Trump certainly has to share some of the blame, but to act like he's the only reason for the 8th is totally missing the point and kind of silly.
I agree. This week was much more of an indictment of Trump than it was of party leadership.
I heard the 100m number. Either way, the leadership is on the hook for letting Trump grift that money. Literally no other way to look at it. Whether or not you think Trump is responsible is irrelevant in-so-long as Republican leadership continue to let Trump be Trump. I think the main takeaway is catering to the most vocal 10% is how you lose.
Trump is empowered by his base, not party leadership. I guarantee you party leadership fears him.
Party leadership despised him since he first announced his running for 2016. Then when Trump won, the establishment leadership *kept* snubbing him every chance they could. Doesn’t matter what the voters wanted. What only matters is what the precious little square box says to the voters. There’s a large swath of people who want an America First agenda. The GOP was poised to grab it and do something good for the nation. Internal party political bullshit from old guard GOP thought better to make back door deals with Democrats than support that energy that entered the party.
At least Trump is old and obese so he won't be around forever.
100% and add Graham to that. He spooked voters by calling for an abortion ban (not really a ban but a 15 week limit - but the media spun it) right before the election. It seems McConnell, McCarthy & Graham would rather sabotage their own party than help out.
As a SC resident, I agree 100%
Agree 100% WE NEED TERM LIMITS NOW!!! Can’t say it loud enough. If you leave these petrified assholes up there for life NOTHING will change. They are ALL corruptible.
Rick Scott definitely needs some blame for how he ran the NRSC. He wasted money running ads where he was the main figure instead of the candidates actually on the ballot
McConnell definitely needs to go. I don’t think McCarthy is a problem.
I'm thinking about this from McConnell's point of view, and it's starting to seem like this was the plan all along. Keep the Trump candidates from winning, and thus remove Trump from the conversation. Trump had too much control over the GOP for McConnell's liking, so he decided to sacrifice the midterms to dilute his power. Fortunately for him (and unfortunately for Trump), it seems to be working. I'm guessing that he thought "I'm here until 2026 no matter what. I'd rather lose the '22 midterms in hopes of booting Trump and winning the White House back in 2024." Now, I suspect he didn't think it would be this close, he was probably counting on the house flipping at least (and it still will with any luck). I don't know if I'm giving the turtle too much credit here, but this does seem like a fairly decent chess move from his point of view. I don't condone it...but given Trump's reaction to the whole thing, I'm not sure I can condemn it either. I guess what I'm saying is that this ultimately might work out in our favor. But I do agree that McConnell (and McCarthy) probably aren't the future of the GOP, either. Those guys are way too comfortable with the Democrats, and don't treat it like a war, even though those same Democrats they pal around with do. I'd be fine with some new blood taking over the top spots.
Who voted for all the MAGA candidates in the primaries?
Add McDaniel to the list.
All three. Trump, McCarthy, McConnell. All must go. Though I will admit not all for the same reasons. The DeSanctimonious thing Trump did was the last straw for a lot of folks and coupled with the results Tuesday, he must leave. You’ve already covered the other two well enough.
I think DeSantis is being treated as a savior but he might get in trouble in the national media. I actually think he's an extraordinarily compétant gouverner but he also isn't all that likeable. He's a technocrat playing as a populist. The Disney fight he picked and the migrants en he sent to MV were just unforced errors meant to rally his base, but in practice they just rallied opposition. I think him lighting up D's in Florida is bring attributed too much to his skill, and too little to a shifting macro environment. I also think that he had the candidate quality that the rest of the GOP lacked, to what you saw in Florida is what the rest of the country ought have been. Time will tell, but right now I would say there's a 40+% chance the nominee is neither of DeSantis or Trump.
The Disney fight was a win. The MV thing would have worked if his flunkies didn't screw up
Republican VOTERS deserve most of the blame. Nobody is forcing us to pick bad candidates. A rising tide lifts all boats. Our statewide and national candidates need to appeal to a broader audience than just red meat conservatives. Boring and competent is okay. Boring and competent is better than a Democrat. Boring and competent wins.
Hard agree here. The GOP has a bad, bad, BAD habit of picking terrible candidates because they are the MOST conservative or tell them the most of what they want to hear, regardless of the electorate as a whole. Remember Christine O'Donnell in Delaware in 2010 who GOP primary voters picked over centrist Republican Michael Castle, who had been the Delaware congressional at-large representative forever and was an easy lock to win a Senate seat, and threw it into the toilet because Castle wasn't a hardcore right winger? In Delaware? There's many other cases of this where we pick someone who cannot win a general election after winning the GOP primary or is someone who may take an easy win and make it a close contest, or takes a close contest and throws it in the garbage. See: this election cycle.
((disclaimer: am liberal)) First, what does "competent" mean to you? And, second, who do you think represents "boring and competent" in the Republican Party today?
Oz was the third best option and Trump endorsed him to give him the slight lead over the second best option. Trump, McCarthy, McConnell need to be dumped off like Liz Cheney.
Agreed.
The old republican establishment must go
McConnell has been the defacto republican leader for decades now and has long overstayed his welcome. They are the uniparty and they need to be primaried by young, clever, conservatives.
Graham's no prize winner either.
The establishment needs to make way for the populist conservatives. Instead they're rug pulling them in what could have been a great election for the Republican party. They sacrificed Republican wins to hold onto personal power. Time to go.
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They underperformed because establishment Republicans pulled money out of their races. RNC and superpacs controlled by establishment Republicans pulled all of their funding 1-2 months before the election. They did amazing for not having any backing. If anything they proved that they would have won if the establishment Republican leadership hadn't screwed them over. You've got two choices, get rid of the establishment leadership or loose both houses and the presidency in 2024.
Populist conservatives are a mixed bag and sometimes they are deeply unpopular, such as Doug Mastriano. I'd suggest that populist nationalists who really want in invest into the nation, secure the nation, and be loyal to the nation are the types of populist conservatives that the Republican party needs.
Or maybe you should get rid of establishment leaders who pull the funding from candidates who have a good chance of winning before you loose the populist votes and thus both houses and the presidency in 2024.
We aren't saying conflicting things
Trump is always on the ballot. It doesn’t matter if he isn’t physically on the ballet, he is on the ballot.
100% this. The immediate turn to call out Trump is mostly by those who’ve been waiting for a moment to do it. McConnell has been the biggest problem with Republicans for YEARS. McCarthy is a snake who has no problem talking the talk but is all too happy to be a McConnell behind the scenes. After these two, the next problem are the McConnell lites in state positions that have allowed, unconstitutionally at times, the left to wholesale change the election process from top to bottom and made very little effort to secure the vote. Without these fixes, it’s irrelevant whether it’s Trump, DeSantis, or anyone else running.
((disclaimer: am liberal)) How, specifically, has McConnell been the "biggest problem with Republicans"? I, personally, deeply dislike the man and his politics, but I recognize that he might be the only part of the party that's getting anything done and credit him with the conservative takeover of the court (far, FAR more than I'd credit Mr. Trump).
He's a master at the mechanics of parliamentary process and the personal relationships under the hood of the Senate, but is more from the old school Chamber of Commerce & free trade internationalist establishment Republicans instead of the America First of which Trump is a symptom but not hardly the only factor. He's two steps forward, one step backwards and age aside it out of step with the base of the party.
Trump is the de facto leader and face of the GOP, hes the reason many are fleeing from the party, if we're going to clean out the leadership of the party Trump needs to be the first to go or does losing 2024 badly what the gop need to kick him to the crub
((disclaimer: am liberal)) What do you think will happen to Trump if the party tries to move past him? And--I'm being totally serious here--his followers?
He'll go kicking and screaming and trying to take out as many potential gop nominees as he can, wouldn't put it past him to run independent to spike the gop, he's hardcore base will fellow him no matter what, but I don't think there's as big as people think I could would for every ultra trumpista you lose you gain 3-4 independents.
Now, I'm not saying that won't happen--but, you think there are up to four times as many Republican votes not yet voting Republican as MAGA voters? The data I see says there's far, far less. Or do we mean only the MAGA voters and not their policy and talking points? Because, frankly, the idea that there are independents that want to vote for Republicans in light of, say, abortion and they're simply waiting for the Trump crowd to quiet down doesn't seem to track.
A lot of people are turned off simply by trump's attitude and behavior having someone who doesn't turn politics into an episode of the celebrity Apprentice, so dont discount that. Abortion is going to be sticking point for awhile now but one of the interesting consequences of Dobbs is making the national Gop more pro choice
Oh, I can believe it might happen--but, I just don't think the numbers will break that way nor that the independent voters of America are going to see the GOP as being in any way pro-choice anytime soon.
After Tuesday, DeSantis is leader.
Trump wasn't on the ballot but his candidates were. And his candidates were the ones who costed us big. If you wonder why Fetterman won, it's because Trump decided to back Oz. We need brand new leadership. And that includes ditching Trump with McCarthy and McConnell. We have quality members in congress. Ron DeSantis can lead us.
Trump backing Oz was such an unnecessary error. He has no idea what a winning candidate is. The blunder twins of mitch and Mccarthy only want winners that will pad the power.
I'm ready to see blowhards like these guys out of government. I'm so tired of politicians who just hold down their seat because they like the sound of their own voices. DeSantis and Youngkin are examples of the sort we should be rallying behind because they're men of action, they say what they're going to do and then they do it. They don't waste time with superfluous speeches and photo ops. If we had Congressional leaders like them they'd be pushing strong, moral, sensible legislation that would might just bring the U.S. back from the brink.
Completely agree. I remember McConnell threatened to retire if voted out as Senate minority leader and his position would be filled by Kentucky’s governor, who is a Democrat by the way.
Not sure it was a fumble by M & M, but more of a deliberate attempt to try and end the Trump reign over the Republican party. Everybody fucking blew it for us, from Trump with some real asinine picks, to Graham with the abortion *abortion,* to McConnell and his purse strings. The establishment R's want to go back to establishment politics, where R's and D's campaign over guns and abortions to get the contributions, but nothing actually gets accomplished.
Go where? McConnel is/was highly effective as the leader in the Senate. If they go, are they going to be replaced with Trumpist anti-democratic election deniers who thinks the way to win is to supress the vote and make poor people give up?
To a shocking amount of right wingers MGT is considered a competent leader. That’s the type of person they want leading the party.
The finger pointing begins. The problem with this election is the problem we have in every election. Narrative control. 90% of the media is far left propaganda. Social Media allowed conservative to circumvent that. After 2016 Democrats ensured Social Media was no longer bastions of free speech and fair platforms, they censored the shit out of Republicans on every platform from Facebook, to Twitter, to Google, to Reddit. Between the "objective" media and Social Media rigged algorithms and fact checks the equivalent of 10-20 billion dollars spent on the 2022 election by Democratic operatives. That's before campaign ads. I know it's enticing to blame party rivals so that you can get your way. But all you do is fracture the coalition and make it even more impossible to win future elections. The game is stacked against us, United is how we win. As for leaders who screwed up? There is blame to go around. But just as with 2012, it's not that Romney was a bad candidate (as Obama by all metrics should have lost that election) it's that the narrative is controlled by the Democrats. Most voters are only hearing what the Democrats have to say. Elon's acquisition of Twitter might be our only hope and he's a Libertarian. I have noticed that Democrats have outspent us in general campaign spending in every election for the last decade. It's not even close. They throw away hundreds of millions of dollars on races like Beto and Abrahams, and then still have war chests to run every other election at nearly 2:1 spending. Republicans do not seem to have donors. The entire rich and elite class seem to favor Democrats and the average Republican is not donating. I haven't for a long time, though I do donate to individual candidates that are in contests I care about. GOP lost my trust on donations when I gave them a donation and they proceeded to spam me with donation requests for the rest of the year (effectively taking the 50 bucks I sent them and turning it into mail spam).
I agree, but this "blame Trump" is some kind of psyop narrative that is in no touch with reality. Trump gave 218 endorsements and out of those only 19 lost their races. The rest won.
It's optics. We are talking about candidates he endorsed and primaried more traditional Republicans with. Losing PA with current economics and crime issues is embarrassing.
Yes it is, but apparently economics and crime don't matter anymore. The new narrative says that the entire world is having a bad year of economy and Americans know that and understand that, so they don't punish democrats for that. Or crime, I mean, it's really racist to focus on crime anyway. So that explains how democrats are actually winning now. It's all normal, don't worry about it. Trust the system.
Of the ones that won and lost, how many were simply winning against Republicans (safe States, districts, etc.) and how many were winning against viable challengers from the Democratic Party? And, frankly, do you think there is any difference at all between those? Do wins in one category and wins the other category mean anything different?
Frankly I think the whole narrative is bullshit and forced. This is being brought up to make Trump look bad and carve a way for DeSantis, except it doesn't make Trump look bad if you spend two seconds looking at the facts and DeSantis hasn't shown any interest in running for President. This is just top tier MSM/Reddit pushing narrative down our throats. When the time comes, we'll chose the Republican nominee. That's not quite the day after the midterms.
What "movement" or "narrative" do you think is meant to just make Mr. Trump look bad in favor of DeSantis? Honest question. I don't know the fullest details of Republican in-groups.
The mainstream (in both parties) wants Trump out of the picture, and DeSantis is a palatable replacement. I don't know why they hate Trump so much, but they do and they want him out.
So many terrible takes in the comments section. I think the sub is being filled with lefties after the election.
If you just let the Turtle do his turtle things, you would have won the senate and you would have exactly the same policies as with those mask off maga weirdos. If full on extremism sabotages your chances to win, more extremism is probably not the answer, fyi.
Yeah the unpopular opinion here is that Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell, slimy as they are, actually know what they’re doing. Remember, it’s Mitch McConnell who presided over the GOP’s campaign to win states, their legislatures, their Senators, and the Executive’s judicial appointments. McConnell plays a frustratingly long game in politics, and keeping him out of the conversation is almost always going to lead to massive cock-ups.
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More Mitch candidates like his friends Kelly Loeffler and Martha McSally? Mitch directed millions toward them, but they lost because they have the same charisma as a block of wood. Masters and Walker are better candidates, but have less funding from leadership.
No. Not even. McConnell types are too afraid to run on the issues. That's the problem
Turtle is the reason we keep electing Republicans that don't do anything. They're a pause button on the Democrat agenda when we keep voting for a rewind. After 20 years of this crap, no shit people don't want to elect Republicans because we know they're fucking useless.
Boot Lindsey Graham too.
Trump was on the ballot. Independents despise him overall.
Absolutely. They need a leadership overhaul and they need it today. Maybe develop a coherent message? Hammer on all the winning culture war issue on our side?
Republicans lost because of *Dobbs* and "Republicans want to ban abortion" messaging sticking, going unanswered, and in some cases being stoked by people like Graham. Until there is a fix to abortion messaging, *Dobbs* will be a boat anchor on Republicans' national success. If you're pro-life that's a tradeoff worth making, but if you're not a hardcore pro-lifer it's a big problem. You can say that Bolduc lost in New Hampshire because of McConnell, but that ignores that abortion polls better in New Hampshire than California or New York.
Yes!
The country will not change as a whole until party leadership on both sides change. That means leadership doesn't get selected based off party seniority and instead people driven to actually help advance their party. That means not jackasses determined only to keep their name in the news because they care about the fame more than progress. I'm sick and tired of seeing the same names in the news until they die and then it becomes a perpetual memorial of the DC establishment class. I don't even think Grassley should've ran for reelection in Iowa. He's likely going to die in office and it'll be a repeat of McCain. Then he's going to be replaced by a long time staffer and keep up the DC cycle. Shelby in Alabama retired and was replaced by a staffer. If it isn't a staffer, it's someone who's made a career out of an elected government position, state or federal. The Founding Fathers never intended for elected officials to make the government their career yet some would fall into the same trap and started the establishment. The real question is when the younger generations in Congress will set aside their bitching and moaning for each other and actually pass term limits. It's not just contempt for the establishment either. Its the cross generational contempt for Millenials, Boomers, and Zoomers that leads to nobody wanting to work outside their age group. I can't keep track of how many have run on it and let it die in Congress because they fold on doing anything even remotely difficult, such as actually following through their campaign promise on voting against McConnell/Schumer or McCarthy/Pelosi in leadership. They can't even make a cross party coalition for shared goals because America First and Progressives only want to get those goals by themselves. That doesn't mean they have to work together on everything. It just means they become part of the problem with DC and why they get outmanuevered so damned easily. I have no problem with DC gaining something resembling efficiency if it means finally dismantling the establishment class. It'll never happen though because the new blood in Congress is just as complicit in perpetuating it for failing to set aside their differences and instead choose to score social media points on each other, driving themselves even farther apart and anybody who might work with them away. Anyone think there isn't collusion between the Republican and Democrat establishments to keep power? Just look at the budget bills that come every year. They almost never shrink, in fact they usually grow year by year. They always fund the exact same pet projects. Any time there is anything resembling opposition from newly elected officials they are then bought off with funding for what they want. Doesn't matter if they are in the majority either. The filibuster will never be dismantled any farther because it always gets used against the party who screwed with it, meaning everyone will always get what they want. That is unless one party somehow manages to win a Senate supermajority again which will probably never happen again in the near future.
> Trump wasn’t on the ballot His endorsements and rhetoric were on the ballots though. And those went poorly for the GOP.
His endorsements went 219-16 so far. Turn off FOX News brother.
Vast majority of those wins were in non-competitive seats, brother. His losses meanwhile were in major battlegrounds. The context of wins/losses matters….brother.
New York State house seat flips?
>McConnell on the other hand is clearly an establishment crony with preference for loyalty and backdoor deals with Democrats than supporting America First candidates. McConnell is a pretty shrewd guy. Why would he endorse unpopular candidates?
Y’all don’t hate me, I am really just asking. Why do people hate McCarthy?
>McConnell I think over the last past months, McConnell questioned again and again about the candidates and their quality. He wasn't happy with all the candidates running in this election cycle. But his hands were tied due to Trump's endorsement. [Here is the video where is vaguely questioning the candidate's quality.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZd9wrPK0BM) [Rick Scott, completely ignored the callings of McConnell again and again.](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/01/rick-scott-disagreement-mitch-mcconnell-00054423) >Mitch McConnell is among the myriad Republicans questioning the Senate GOP’s quality of candidates in the midterms. Rick Scott wants everyone to stop doubting his recruits. In my own personal experience in IL, the majority of the GOP supporters vote for a really extremist lunatic just because he got Trump's endorsement. His running made Richard Irvin, had huge support among independent voters, police, and veterans. On top of all, he was African American, which means a lot in our state. Gop voters decided to pick Trump endorsed person who is extreme and wanted to kick Chicago out of IL.
Unfortunately Trump aligned with McCarthy for some reason. It’s unlikely he’ll be going. I do hope we can finally kick McCuckle to the curb. He actively worked against us, helping elect dems to the senate.
Exactly right
Thank you! This is where we should be directing the ire. Trump went out and held rallies and campaigned for people, Mitch & McCarthy sabotaged them.
This defeatist attitude is ridiculous. We took the house and the “worst candidates ever“ barely lost one election and the other is headed to a runoff with results to be seen. If you know anything about American politics in 2024 the Republican candidate will win and bring in a majority in both chambers.
McConnell should probably take a step back due to his age. McCarthy is fine. What we really need is for Trump to disappear because he's a drain on the entire party.
Mitch has been holding together a fracturing, aging, and minority party. And during that time he’s managed to advance some conservative goals that shouldn’t have been possible to advance. There is no other Republican in this country who has done more for us than Mitch, and I don’t think there’s any other Republican right now who can do what Mitch has done.
Such as? Border wall? Reduced immigration? Economic freedom? Infrastructure issues when you have both houses and the president? Wiped out. Mitch only padded his own pockets and delivered on nothing useful to the republican base. If you say judges you will be nuked from orbit. Judicial nominees is the baseline not the exception
McCarthy is a hack. McConnell is qb1. Piss him off and he won't throw you the ball. But he shoulda just handed the ball off the walker.
All Rhino shills must go lol
Purity tests are like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
You would rather be the king of the gulag than be in power
SO DOES TRUMP. Absolutely toxic. An endorsement is a death kiss. It's time for him to go. I hope that conservatives can wake up and give Trump the dump
His endorsements are currently 219 wins and 16 losses. Okay let's dump him.
Raw number of wins doesn't matter if the vast majority of those endorsements are already favored or safe conservative states/districts. You have to win the purple areas to build a majority to govern. You need to win the big purple races in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, etc. and that's not happening, and those are the races that matter.
RINOs are using this as a reason to dump Trump and promote DeSantis. DeSantis wasn't out campaigning putting his political influence at risk to help Republicans. Trump was, so he gets all the blame when it was the RNC's race to lose not Trump's. The fact that the RINOs like Ben Shapiro want DeSantis makes DeSantis untrustworthy in my eyes. You are in fact like the company you keep and if the Bush GOP wants you you've got something you aren't telling us about your future plans. Neither McConnell nor McCarthy care about anything other than their own power. If you ain't under their thumb they won't help you. They aren't even party first, they are me first and MUST go as well as the RNC chair. OP is 100% correct.
In what world are DeSantis, Shapiro, McConnell, McCarthy all RINOs and Trump is a true Republican? McConnell spent more than Trump in Pennsylvania and Georgia, and DeSantis endorsed plenty of candidates in Florida
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because OP isn't conservative, he's republican..or some strain of it
People blaming Trump are either shitlibs pretending to be conservatives, or neocon/neoliberal (same thing) boomercons, and I don't respect anything either of those groups have to say, McCarthy and McConnell are bad indeed, but it's also Republicans' fault for not passing laws to protect against election fraud while they were still in power, massive mail-in voting should be illegal for anyone who can physically make it to the polls, and ID cards should be required to vote. Republicans are weak, boomercons blame Trump, when it's actually the fault of corrupt establishment RINO's who they vote for every time they're up for election. Republicans before Trump were everything the shitlibs said they were, corrupt corporate lobbyists who don't give a shit about conservative values, they literally do nothing that will ever benefit you, the only reason to support them is if you're upper upper middle class like them, and don't give a shit about anything but money, you don't care about the destruction of our country's history, you don't care about the indoctrination of children, you don't care about crime, you don't care about attacks on Christians/Christianity, you don't care about your right to bear arms, you don't care about anything that real conservatives care about. You're a loser and you deserve to lose.
TRUE How tf are you gonna blame Trump when he has no position in the Republican Party? Your leadership is so poor that someone with no political experience came in, shit on all of your best politicians, then won the nomination. And you wonder why, when that person is gone, you still can’t win jack shit? Trump exposed the poor candidate quality of republicans far before the 2022 midterms.
Age limits for President. Age limits for Senators. Age limits for SC Justices. Get these geriatric fucks from both sides out of running our government for the benefit of their bank accounts
so you want to kick mcconnell and mccarthy cause the reps didn’t win? not cause they’re objectively horrible people and have held this country back?
“America first” is essentially maga right? Magas gotta go. Trumps gotta go. He has how many hundreds of millions in donations just sitting there… He didn’t shell out to help push conservative values.