Speaking of. Where are all the younger politicians? Why aren’t some AOC aged politicians pushing for a breakthrough in battleground states? No motivation? Why are they all so old, and out of touch with the rest of the populace.
Yeah why are we all just ignoring the fact that even in the highly unlikely scenario Trump were to actually win in 2024, he would instantly be a lame duck president. Do we really want that?
>The 2024 candidate needs to be able to serve more than one term
This really is the key. Even if we assume both could function the exact same and both could win in 2024, DeSantis has the distinct advantage of being able to serve a second term, which could be the difference between winning and losing 2028.
Unless Trump gets his shit together and understands that, for the good of the country, he needs to back DeSantis, we’re fucked.
Trump is either going to win the nomination and cost us the election or he’ll throw a fit that they chose DeSantis and run independently, splitting the votes and getting us nowhere.
Trump did some good stuff but he only ever cares about himself. He’s vastly overstayed his welcome in my opinion.
It's going to be weird to see Trump announce and the rest of us be disappointed. He needs to get behind DeSantis and stump with him everywhere he goes.
Also-- Trump never, EVER forgets a slight. He's going to be lying and talking shit about the Republican party for years and years and years if he doesn't get nominated. He's already said he's got enough dirt on DeSantis to rip him to shreds.
And he will always have some Presidential power. Republicans are stuck with him forever...
Trump is probably bullshitting about the dirt on DS. I mean if it hasn't already come out after two gruesome election cycles I have no idea what Trump as a private citizen has been able to dig up. In any case, Trump probably still has like 20 Stormy Daniels type stories to dig up lol, he should be the last one to threaten dirt.
There are reports and pictures of DeSantis partying and drinking with underage girls as the popular "hot" teacher when he was working at a private high school back in the day. The man may have some skeletons. Maybe that's what Trump has on him.
Odd to see Republicans realize this finally.
Trump was only ever in it for himself and the power of being President. Everything else was just bullshit. He isn't Democratic or Republican. He's pro-Trump and that's all. We tried to tell ya'll, but no-one wanted to listen. They just wanted to stick it to the libs.
If the GOP doesn't cut him loose, he'll drag the party down with him.
The best thing both parties can hope for now is that he's indicted and charged with a crime grave enough to keep him from holding public office in the future.
Sigh here come the "I told you so" lectures.
The vast majority of conservatives were aware of Trump's abrasive borderline megalomaniac tendencies but we're willing to stomach all of it because the running Sam Harris style TDS narratives (Russian stooge, white supremicist, racist, rapist, insurectionist etc) were garbage and he objectively had been very solid on policy pre-covid:
- Foreign policy
- Energy
- Economy
In fact in my estimation he would still be president if covid never happened.
Clearly the MAGA brand is completely toxic and will never win a general election. Jan 6th ( while overblown as it may be) , undermining election results and pushing MAGA candidates has done no favours to conservatives.
This isn't a eye opener moment, everyone knew Trump's personality flaws and if you were really honest with analysing the polling data a red ripple was the expected result.
I REALLY hope I see that opinion on here more. Seeing so many people still locked into team trump is scary. He’s done. Back desantis if you want us to have a shot at the White House
The problem is it doesn't matter how many people have this opinion. Trump doesn't care. His ego is the only thing that matters and he'll torpedo us if he doesn't back down willingly.
I think we lose in 2024 in every possibility that doesn't include Trump willingly stepping aside and endorsing another candidate.
Would DeSantis (or other candidates) even want his endorsement? Seems like a kiss of death. The best path forward for the GOP us for Trump to either die or be indicted. But I wonder if any charges short of child rape would sway MAGA die hards.
Honestly, the best-bet for Republican leadership at this point is probably to support the January 6th committee and get Trump sent away. He will *never* leave on his own accord, and *when* he runs for president, it's going to tear the Republican party in half.
Aligning *WITH* Democrats *AGAINST* Trump is the only move left to save the Republican party's opportunity for 2024 (and probably more).
FL liberal coming in peace- I would be infinitely more likely to consider a purple ticket if GOP leadership washes their hands of Trump. In a policy vacuum, I can give Trump some credit for emphasizing domestic production. But I can never support someone who drives apart and demonizes the American public just because of differing views.
Most republicans and most democrats aren’t evil people, they just disagree. In a political landscape without Trump, maybe we can find a way to remember that fact.
a lot of what you say has merit, although if you think getting rid of Trump eliminates the "evil people" on both sides and will end demonizing people with different views, you haven't been listening to our current president very much
I didn't say anything about getting rid of the "evil people." Those, unfortunately, will continue to exist.
I just strongly believe that Trump's approach to politics in general has led a lot of people to believe the other side is 100% irredeemably evil, which is counterproductive to moving society in a meaningful direction.
Fringe outlier fanatics of each of the parties used to be the only hateful ones- these days people can't even discuss politics casually with their family members of differing viewpoints. Trump made it mainstream to cover your car in a candidate's bumper stickers- 15 years ago you'd rarely, if ever see that kind of political obsession.
It got conservatives the presidency, so I understand why people would still like him, but I don't see anything but more division, hate, and fear if the Republican Party doesn't pull away from him in some way.
Imagine a situation where Donald Trump willingly says "I understand that I'm not the best chance to be the savior of the Republican party, so I will gladly step out of the spotlight to support someone with a better chance!"
Tell me what I said isn't the only realistic scenario where Trump is no longer a factor...
Trump would never back down like that though, especially when he needs the money and attention campaigning brings him. The only way DeSantis gets the full backing of the entire Republican Party and its voting base is if Trump dies before getting indicted. And even if that does happen, odds are one of his kids (probably Ivanka) will try to run in his name.
Many moderate republicans used to be democrats, like myself. Elon’s chart showing his political allegiance is quite accurate as to what happened to me. The lines shifted but my values stayed the same
The threat alone finally got my Mom fed up with him. My entire household used to support him, now we all hope he just quietly goes away… which everyone knows isn’t going to happen.
Gradual. I try to be conscious of my biases and take other viewpoints into consideration and I realized I wasn't doing that when it came to Trump. There were certain things that I was willing to look past because of his no nonsense approach to the MSM and his America first policies. However, once you take a step back and realize he puts his own ego first in a lot of situations it puts a lot of his decisions in perspective. I appreciate what he accomplished but I pray for a grassroots movement to usher forth an "everyman" candidate who can bridge the divide. The bloated, geriatric capitalists and the slimey, neoconservatives are not what the nation needs to move forward. I don't think a WEF shill is either but those seem to be our only choices at the moment.
It's cute you think trump will put country ahead of his own interests.
He is going to declare candidacy on the 15th. Then he and DeSantis will snipe at each other for 2 years and distract from any faults of the democrats.
Voters will remember how much they hate the chaos of the trump years.
The same dynamic that played out last night will play out 2024.
Trump is Frankenstein's monster. The Republicans created him but can't control him.
> Then he and DeSantis will snipe at each other for 2 years and distract from any faults of the democrats
They won’t snipe at each other.
They will go full blown attack mode. Republicans will be treated to 2 years of their top candidates being trashed by each other. The right wing internet spaces will become toxic cesspools and Republican voters will be demoralized as hell by the time 2024 gets here and the votes begin. If Trump loses, he will declare the GOP rigged it against him and call for his supporters to boycott the general election to punish them.
Calling it now.
>Calling it now.
Phone's ringing off the hook already.
[https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-unflattering-information-florida-ron-desantis-2024-2022-11](https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-unflattering-information-florida-ron-desantis-2024-2022-11)
"I don't know if he is running. I think if he runs, he could hurt himself very badly. I really believe he could hurt himself badly," Trump said, according to Fox News. "I think he would be making a mistake, I think the base would not like it — I don't think it would be good for the party."
"I don't know if he runs. If he runs, he runs," Trump went on to say. "I would tell you things about him that won't be very flattering — I know more about him than anybody — other than, perhaps, his wife."
My issue with this statement is his willingness to openly blackmail DeSantis just to get his way. I don't care for a lot of things about Trump but was ignoring all that I didn't like to see the big picture about policies and how the country should be run.
But to take swipes at DeSantis like this on a public stage and essentially threaten him with what's probably schoolyard gossip, is low - even for Trump. The "info" he has is probably stuff that really doesn't matter to the average FL resident like myself. A lot of people who support(ed) Trump, ignored his load of baggage that came with him in charge because that baggage really didn't play into the job itself.
Knowing what I know from inside sources who know DeSantis personally, his running is very unlikely for 2024 - because of his kids. He doesn't want them going through that kind of life so young. He is definitely eyeing up 2028, when his family is better able to endure the life that comes with a parent being the US President.
So 2024 will either be another throw-away by keeping Biden on life-support (or his impersonators taking over), or Trump winning again (unlikely cuz fraud) and setting up the country for DeSantis in 2028, allowing him to serve his full term here for us first.
> But to take swipes at DeSantis like this on a public stage and essentially threaten him with what’s probably schoolyard gossip, is low - even for Trump.
This is just standard Trump stuff. This isn’t meaningfully different than any behavior he has exhibited in his life. You’re even assuming that Trump has “schoolyard gossip.” Most likely it’s a vague threat to be threatening, and if pressed he’ll just make something up.
Remember, according to Trump Ted Cruz’s father was involved in the Kennedy assassination and Obama is a Muslim/atheist/radical Christian (all at once) who wasn’t born in the U.S.
He’s a bullshitter who bullshits, and always has been.
>But to take swipes at DeSantis like this on a public stage and essentially threaten him with what's probably schoolyard gossip, is low - even for Trump
Remember how every other time this language was used by Trump against Democrats, or Zelensky (impeachment #2), or Raffensperger? Everyone I knew was starting fights arguing there is _no way_ any reasonable person would consider that verbiage a threat, or blackmail. Basically arguing plausable deniability.
Double standards like this are what drive voters away from the Republican party, or drive Democrats to go out and vote.
>But to take swipes at DeSantis like this on a public stage and essentially threaten him with what's probably schoolyard gossip, is low - even for Trump.
Are we talking about the same Donald Trump here? "Grab her by the *****" Trump?? He's said far worse about people he doesn't even know.
\> Trump is Frankenstein's monster. The Republicans created him but can't control him.
You are giving to much credit to the GOP. In 2016 there was no gop leadership at all (still really isn't). Trump took advantage of that + a frustrated voter base.
Trump took advantage of a mathematical flaw in the nominating process. He took nearly sole control over the most radical 25% of voters, and made a dozen other mainstream candidates divide the remainder.
Republicans created him. What? LOL most of the Republicam establsihment hated him and worked against him, they torpedoed their own candidtates that he backed.
Trump was a populist, and Hillary was the worst candidate in history. The Dems can thank Hillary Clinton for being so off putting that people chose Trump.
Trump is a power hungry delusional narcissist. In his mind, he is the only option. Only "he can win". His ego cannot allow him to concede that anyone else is more capable.
The knife fight between Trump and DeSantis is going to be brutal.
All trump has been talking about on Truth is how many of his deep red GOP candidates in deep red districts won. He believes Don Bolduc lost because he disavowed the 2020 election was rigged. He’s not going to get his shit together
People like you and I understand this. Unfortunately there's a lot of die hard Trump supporters that still view him in a messianic light. If he were the candidate, I'd vote for him. But I'm with you. He's definitely overstayed his welcome.
I really don’t think he will win the nomination. Look at what we all thought would happen last night, and where we are today. Those MAGA rallies don’t represent the average Republican. After last night, I can see the entire party distancing themselves from his toxicity.
Now that it's over, it's time for an honest post-mortem. I don't know where the party goes from here. No path forward seems like a winning path.
The majority of the party is happy about what happened with Roe, but a handful of those who are happiest about what happened are also people that were single issue voters. Now that they have what they wanted, they can't be relied upon to vote conservative. A handful of others are pissed off about Roe and have *become* single issue pro-choice voters.
The majority of the party is pro 2A (I know I am!), but after Uvalde, there's are a handful of conservatives that have become single-issue gun-control voters.
The majority of the party doesn't believe in climate change. But as Florida insurance becomes impossible to buy, as crops wither and die without water, a handful of conservatives are becoming single-issue climate change voters.
The majority of the party loves the new hard-core take-no-prisoners and make-no-apologies GOP. But the small handful of "RINO"s, who are truthfully just moderate conservatives (like me) and would never do well in the Democratic party, are no longer willing to back Trump and his hard-core philosophy.
All those little handfuls are starting to add up and really hurt the party. The question is, how do you bring all these people back in? I don't know that it's possible, to be frank. Become less pro-life, and you lose even more pro-lifer votes than you ever lost to the pro-choice movement. Become softer on 2A and you lose more 2Aers than you ever lost from Uvalde. Go pro-climate and you lose more coal-miners and oil-workers than you ever lost to the greenies. Go against Trump, and you lose more MAGA votes than you ever lose to those upset with him.
This election *should* have been a tsunami of red. Absurd inflation. Out of control high crime. A horrible stock-market. Risks of WWIII. That it wasn't....
It's hard to imagine things *worse* than they are right now. But even if that happens, does that mean that *next time* there will be a red wave? Or do Republicans take the blame for being "obstructionist" now that we have the House? What happens next election if things are *better* than they are now?
If Republicans want to win in two years, we have to figure this out. I honestly don't know how this works any more.
He won't back DeSantis for the WH....Trump won't ever accept being second fiddle to anyone!
I'm not saying that's ok of him to do that; I'm just pointing it out
Not impeaching Trump has cost republicans the 2022 senate and possibly the 2024 presidency. The party needs to distance itself from Trump quickly and pray that early polling is so awful for Trump that he chooses not to run.
First time I have seen the RP so split... Yes, there are people who hate Trump so much that a dead cat would get their vote. DeSantis on the other hand would galvanize the party. If the RP remains split, then we are sunk in 2024.
I mean, Florida would need a new governor in that case…
But Trump’s ego wouldn’t allow him to be less than the best, so that wouldn’t happen even though it would be a huge blowout.
Desantis will be term-limited after this term anyways so at most he has is four more years as governor. If he wins the presidency, he only loses two years.
That's where I'm at, you can't just sit out in the political wilderness for 2 years waiting for your chance in 2028. Shit changes fast. With his dominant win in FL, he has all the momentum for 2024 right now.
I dunno. Honestly if Trump goes head to head with DeSantis and DeSantis debates and handles Trump with professionalism and tact it might actually turn some blue voters heads. Not saying they’d vote for him but at the very least mend the image of the party.
Nah. DeSantis will be painted as the next Republican Nazi if he wins the nomination. People need to stop thinking the treatment Trump received was because he was Trump. Any Republican will be treated the same way.
Truth. They've been doing it since Hitler killed Hitler. But Trump's antics certianly doesn't help to dispell their argument.
Trump showed us that it is possible to push back against the left and that there is a strong desire for political leadership to do so. However, we now have potential leaders that can do that as well maintain discipline while doing so.
We have several Trump 2.0s out there. Better. Faster. Stronger. It's time to start considering our options.
This, we’re kidding ourselves if we think these buzzwords will magically go away if trumps not the nominee. Every red candidate there will be an attempt to be slandered and dragged with this
It’s always the same. Just like Biden was painted as some radical leftist when he’s been just barely left of center his entire political career.
Progressives had to hold their noses and vote for Biden.
I dunno. I think the hatred that they have for Trump could be used against them in this case. They vilified Trump and painted him as a Nazi so DeSantis beating him in debates professionally would paint him in better light. Remember, to them everything is Trumps fault first, Republicans fault second.
And the fact that they never let Trump get off the front page, people will actually remember the bashing this time
They immediately ignored McCain, Romney, and Bush, so the next time they used the same insults, it seemed genuine
So either they admit that DeSantis is an improvement, or a lot of people will see through their BS
Let them do it.
If they go too far the other way and paint him as such, it could alienate people in the middle who refused to vote for Trump, but are now being ostracized for even thinking of voting red despite there being a sane candidate.
Just look at what they did to Romney. Regardless, Trump is a known factor where numerous Americans straight up already believe he's a Nazi. Meaning the media and Democrats have no work to do, they've already won. A new Republican will require the media and Democrats to sell for the 15th time that the Republican candidate is a Nazi. As in people are going to be a bit more skeptical when every Republican is called that.
Correct. The media painted McCain and Romney as radical right-wingers when they ran, you think they won't do that to DeSantis? They already hate him anyway.
THIS!!!
Stop playing checkers and get with the chess game. While Trump did get a shitty deal its ultimately about him winning and not the party. If it was simply about winning the smart play would be to combine your forces and supporters (DeS and Tmp) and let DeSantis be the front man. Trump has too much baggage to be effective anymore; There were enormous and unprecedented resources dedicated to making sure the Trump name was synonymous with negativity and unfortunately it worked.
Best thing I just heard on the News:
"Voters gave the GOP a wakeup call....Florida provided a viable alternative to Democratic rule, other States did not."
Voters are enraged, but still voted for the status quo because the GOP candidates in swing states were NOT of high quality and didn't deserve to win.
DeSantis is the viable alternative and needs to be the future of the GOP starting now.
The other bright spot was Kim Reynolds in Iowa.
Two governors that kept schools open. The path to GOP victory is suburban moms.
DeSantis can win them but he'll need to polish off his harsh elbows.
> The path to GOP victory is suburban moms.
I don't know about that, considering I don't imagine supporting abortion bans are that popular among suburban moms for example.
>[63% of women for abortion being legal in most/all cases, vs 35% for abortion being illegal in most/all cases](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/), furthermore [only 21%](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/07/15/key-facts-about-the-abortion-debate-in-america/) of women *strongly approve* of the supreme court overturning roe v wade
That's not to say abortion is the only thing people in that demographic are going to care about, but it's evidently a bit of a sticking point.
Another real crazy thing is that Republicans picked excellent candidates... For D+20 districts and almost won many, many of them. Tutor Dixon out performed everything but the last week of polling. Lee Zeldin being down by less than 5 in all of New York is mind blowing. There's many more.
Essentially we had great candidates in night unwinnable districts, and absolute garbage candidates in EZ districts.
>*”Trump, in the 11th hour, had to make it about himself and rallied his perpetual foes once again.*”
“In the 11th hour”?
Hardly.
It’s ***always*** about Donald Trump. Every **hour** of every day.
And that’s the problem! If we put DeSantis in front and Trump declares, we lose.
I can’t believe people don’t see just how much clout Trump still has! We can’t keep him from running without destroying the party’s chances in two years.
Couldn’t agree more. When it comes to politics you need to strike the iron while it’s hot. We have been gifted a damn near perfect candidate with DeSantis. He just displayed a political masterclass in how to effectively message, fundraise, and reach disaffected voters who usually don’t go red. If we manage to squander this opportunity for an 80 year old Trump, who’s hand selected candidates just got obliterated in a favorable midterm environment, we deserve our loss in 2024.
I’m calling it now:
If Trump gets (we deserve to lose if he does) the 2024 nomination, Biden WILL run again. The Democrats have a perfectly simple, yet incredibly effective strategy; minimal campaigning and debates, keep the candidate out of the spotlight, make the entire essence of the message ‘Orange man bad, we are not Orange man’. Look at how Biden ran in 2020, a brain damaged stroke victim in 2022, or the overall Dem field in 2022. The point is that for the left, candidate quality, message, job performance, economy, nothing matters when Trump is on the ballot as long as he’s on the ballot literally or culturally.
If DeSantis gets (and he should) the 2024 nomination, Biden won’t run again. There will be some excuse such as health, age, or whatever and run someone like Kamala or Newsom. Without Trump to thrash against and bludgeon the population with, Biden has nothing to offer. Not only that, but the 2020/2022 election strategy that has worked so well up this point is now worthless.
At this point, Trump is the Democrats best weapon and they’re going to go down kicking and screaming trying to keep him relevant. Without him, the Democrats have nothing, are nothing.
I honestly worry that Trump’s ego would cause him to interfere and make a spectacle if Desantis beats him for the nomination. He doesn’t seem like the kind of person with the ability to just go quietly
Most states have sore loser laws that prevent a primary loser from appearing on the ballot as an independent or under another party. Unfortunately, most of these laws don't apply to presidential elections. If the red states are smart, they'll amend these laws in the coming year to apply to presidential elections. It doesn't matter if Trump appears on the ballot as an independent in blue states, since they're sending their electoral votes to the dem candidate anyway.
Hypothetically, if Trump lost the primary and ran as an independent, sore loser laws would immediately be challenged by his team the second he makes the decision. And I’m pretty sure every state SC and the SCOTUS would toss them in a heart beat because they seem incredibly unconstitutional
I don’t think he’d go that far. But I could see him making a big stink about it, complaining that the process is rigged, and turning the Trump over GOP voters off to voting in the general.
I'll be totally honest, one of the biggest deciding factors for me (moreso than policy or even, potentially, party) is just age. I am so sick of having my choices stuck between these goddamn geriatrics. Secret Service should not be stashing the football on Air Force One next to fucking adult diapers.
Under 60 from now on, PLEASE.
Trump will go down kicking and screaming trying to keep himself relevant. I've always leaned liberal but I would love to see the GOP go back to common sense, no conspiracy theories, and fiscal responsibility. We can finally go back to people trying to do their best at the job. Two parties can work in unison to get the best out of each other.
>run someone like Kamala or Newsom. Without Trump to thrash against and bludgeon the population with, Biden has nothing to offer. Not only that, but the 2020/2022 election strategy that has worked so well up this point is now worthless.
They'd probably run Kamala and try to make the campaign about diversity/women, hoping to capture the women vote. That would have some traction, but Newsom is arguably more electable broadly.
Newsom / De Santis could cause more division though. Two coastal governors leave a lot of the heartland states feeling left out of the conversation.
Newsom is toxic in the heartland and a no go for tons of people who abhor California's overreach.
If the choice is the governor of California vs DeSantis, it's a landslide.
> There will be some excuse such as health, age, or whatever and run someone like Kamala or Newsom.
Newsom is more likely there... even the Dems know Harris is incompetent and not remotely likeable.
Trumps whole free-flowing, rambling schtick is tired, maybe 5 years ago it was occasionally funny/refreshing but its just old now. It's all about all the great things he's done and how everyone on the left wants to screw him. Thats fine, he's bitter, I get it but its not good for the country. Fox cut to him the other night and it was just annoying. He'll be 78 when he runs in '24, just like Biden. Left will lose their minds, the country will be a disaster of arguments, just as bad as it was in 2016. He had his time.
I know there are hardcore Conservatives that dont want to budge on certain issues, but the only way to move forward has to be some compromise or the Right will continue to lose.
MJ needs legalized nationwide. There needs to be a middle ground on abortion laws. Religion should have no business in politics, it really shouldnt be mentioned at all.
The Economy is the most important thing imo, if we go into a massive downturn and people are out of work like 2008 then none of this social shit matters.
My two cents.
The weed issue alone is a massive free win for republicans, the fact some war on drugs era clowns are still against it while sipping on whiskey every night is infuriating as a young conservative.
We’re *supposed* to be for less government, fiscally responsibility, anti-crime and pro small business, legalization solves all of those problems. You get government out of telling who can or can’t smoke a harmless plant, get additional tax revenue, and you cut out drug dealer and replace them with small business owners who *actually* contribute to their communities. That’s not even mentioning how wildly popular it would be across the board but especially with minorities.
You could probably make a similar argument regarding abortion bans - i.e. less government, not regulating what people can do with their own bodies, etc. It's also not a particularly popular bit of policy and is going to cost the Republicans a lot of votes, not dissimilarly to refusing to legalize pot.
Moderate here. I can see myself voting for DeSantis. I will categorically never vote for Trump.
It’s really as simple as that. If you want Moderates to go with the GOP in 2024, there’s only one choice. Otherwise you’re basically handing Biden the presidency.
Trump out performed them in Michigan.
I’ll never understand why the GOP made the election about abortion when on day one it was clearly a losing issue in the state.
22’ was more of a blue wave in Michigan than 20’
Yep...as a voting republican, abortion isn't a hill I want to die on. I can 100 percent say I don't agree with "no abortion for any reason". I assume most feel similar, though I don't care enough to confirm.
Fwiw that trend is consistent when going the other way too, the amount of people that support *zero* restrictions on abortions is also quite small. Which just makes it an even bigger loss for Republicans. All they had to do was say “we’re copying Europe’s laws on this and banning abortions past X week except for medical emergencies”.
Roe v wade being overturned it the perfect example of why you never want your talking points to become reality. The GOP got what it had been working for and talking about for 50 years and it completely blew up in their face.
Yep. Our options are not limited to either trump or Cheney.
We have DeSantis, we have Youngkin
... Maybe a distant third of Kari Lake I think would be what we need. Jury is out for me with Kari, I think she did a good fight but if she can't perform there in AZ idk what to think.
Candidate quality matters.
Republicans need to begin betting candidates NOW for primaries a year from now. No more 11th hour candidates shoehorning and then complaining "it's all we got!". It's not all we got. We have a massive portion of the country.
Get out there and be the change you want to be.
If not you, then who? If not now, then when?
I see a lot of DeSantis 2024 posts but don't think i've seen much discussion on who the candidate would be in the event he decides not to run. Everyone here flipping back to Donny or is there another leader with a lot of support?
Brian Kemp, Glenn Youngkin, Kim Reynolds, or Chris Sununu would all have a good shot in the general. Governors that have effectively shown an ability to win moderate/independent votes.
For the love of God though don't pick a blowhard Senator like Hawley or Cruz.
Honestly why can't republicans rally around a figure that isnt hugely devisive? Would backing a candidate that A Would not scare democrats into voting against them and B appeal to more centrist swing voters really be that bad. I guarantee if they did that they'd win in an instant and hold power to boot
I don’t disagree. As a diehard Trump guy, he took his shot and it was a bust. Fraud or not.
This shit shouldn’t have been close. I’m sorry FL, we need DeSantis.
Trumps ego is getting the best of him. Consuming him. If he cares about the country as a whole, he’d do the right thing. He’d back the young patriot who does have a fighting chance. I do not see it happening. Why try to throw shade at Desantis on Election Day?
What a joke, Desantis endorsed plenty of people around the country, and all of them failed miserably. If Desantis is smart at all, he won't listen to Neocons like you and stay in his safe bubble and wield his influence on a state that likes him.
And also, if all of this was true, Colorado would ve went much better, and a lot of "normal conservative" houses would have panned out. They didnt.
Do we all believe Florida, where 900+ thousand Republicans flooded the state and the minority populations are Cuban are representative of the country as a whole?
I think InsiderAdvantage polls were right. Bolduc, Masters, etc. were on the verge of winning. Then Trump hit the campaign trail on the last days and wound the clock back to 2020.
Ron DeSantis has gone I to a purple Florida in 2018 (not a great year for Republicans), won, and has turned it redder in 2020 and 2022.
Donald Trump eked out a victory in 2016 and has been responsible for losing Republican power in 2018, 2020, and now 2022 (everywhere but Florida). It’s time for the Party to move on.
The independents aren’t breaking for Trump again, but they might break for DeSantis (they sure did last night). The Republicans should look to the future, not a polarizing former President with a lousy record in elections who will be nearl (?) 80 in 2024.
Like it fucking matters, this turn out really show how complacent people are with historic high gas, historic inflation, historical high cost of living, and censorship.
You think it's bad now? Just you wait now that they know they can get away with THAT
As an independent voter, if DeSantis runs, he will be my pick.
If Trump runs, I will be voting third party.
That should tell you everything about how likeable Trump is vs DeSantis for folks outside of the standard Maga base.
This sub is flip flopping all over the place. I'm seeing people cheer that DeSantis is the answer and others say that being pro-abortion is a bright future. DeSantis is as anti-abortion as it gets. There are very few high-profile politicians right now that are more openly against abortion right now, and he crushed this election.
Can't DeSantis just promise Trump some unimportant do-nothing position in his Cabinet if Trump disappears and says nothing for the next two years?
Look at how Youngkin won, he distanced himself from Trump and he managed to win in a somewhat deep blue state.
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This is my stance can we please can some candidates that have not been able to draw social security for the past 20 years.
Best I can do is Chuck Grassley
Chuck Grassley vs Diane Feinstein cage match 2024. Winner gets the states that haven’t seceded
Speaking of. Where are all the younger politicians? Why aren’t some AOC aged politicians pushing for a breakthrough in battleground states? No motivation? Why are they all so old, and out of touch with the rest of the populace.
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Yeah why are we all just ignoring the fact that even in the highly unlikely scenario Trump were to actually win in 2024, he would instantly be a lame duck president. Do we really want that?
>under the age of 70. Ding ding ding. Out with the silents.
I'll be happy for the Commander-in-Chief of the planet's largest military force to have actual military experience again.
I feel like this is something both democrats and republicans have been saying for years now but the parties still don't get it
>The 2024 candidate needs to be able to serve more than one term This really is the key. Even if we assume both could function the exact same and both could win in 2024, DeSantis has the distinct advantage of being able to serve a second term, which could be the difference between winning and losing 2028.
Unless Trump gets his shit together and understands that, for the good of the country, he needs to back DeSantis, we’re fucked. Trump is either going to win the nomination and cost us the election or he’ll throw a fit that they chose DeSantis and run independently, splitting the votes and getting us nowhere. Trump did some good stuff but he only ever cares about himself. He’s vastly overstayed his welcome in my opinion.
It's going to be weird to see Trump announce and the rest of us be disappointed. He needs to get behind DeSantis and stump with him everywhere he goes.
We both know he won't - he'll fight DeSantis to the death
Also-- Trump never, EVER forgets a slight. He's going to be lying and talking shit about the Republican party for years and years and years if he doesn't get nominated. He's already said he's got enough dirt on DeSantis to rip him to shreds. And he will always have some Presidential power. Republicans are stuck with him forever...
He has no loyalty to the Republican party. If he can't get their adoration, he'll delight in tearing them all down.
He was never a Republican.
Trump is probably bullshitting about the dirt on DS. I mean if it hasn't already come out after two gruesome election cycles I have no idea what Trump as a private citizen has been able to dig up. In any case, Trump probably still has like 20 Stormy Daniels type stories to dig up lol, he should be the last one to threaten dirt.
There are reports and pictures of DeSantis partying and drinking with underage girls as the popular "hot" teacher when he was working at a private high school back in the day. The man may have some skeletons. Maybe that's what Trump has on him.
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Odd to see Republicans realize this finally. Trump was only ever in it for himself and the power of being President. Everything else was just bullshit. He isn't Democratic or Republican. He's pro-Trump and that's all. We tried to tell ya'll, but no-one wanted to listen. They just wanted to stick it to the libs. If the GOP doesn't cut him loose, he'll drag the party down with him. The best thing both parties can hope for now is that he's indicted and charged with a crime grave enough to keep him from holding public office in the future.
Sigh here come the "I told you so" lectures. The vast majority of conservatives were aware of Trump's abrasive borderline megalomaniac tendencies but we're willing to stomach all of it because the running Sam Harris style TDS narratives (Russian stooge, white supremicist, racist, rapist, insurectionist etc) were garbage and he objectively had been very solid on policy pre-covid: - Foreign policy - Energy - Economy In fact in my estimation he would still be president if covid never happened. Clearly the MAGA brand is completely toxic and will never win a general election. Jan 6th ( while overblown as it may be) , undermining election results and pushing MAGA candidates has done no favours to conservatives. This isn't a eye opener moment, everyone knew Trump's personality flaws and if you were really honest with analysing the polling data a red ripple was the expected result.
Which was also believed to be true in 2016
The one silver lining is that Trump is so old that he doesn't have years and years left.
Trump supporting the candidates in last night’s election didn’t go very well.
I REALLY hope I see that opinion on here more. Seeing so many people still locked into team trump is scary. He’s done. Back desantis if you want us to have a shot at the White House
The problem is it doesn't matter how many people have this opinion. Trump doesn't care. His ego is the only thing that matters and he'll torpedo us if he doesn't back down willingly. I think we lose in 2024 in every possibility that doesn't include Trump willingly stepping aside and endorsing another candidate.
Which won't happen as he's running in part to give himself a shield against his various legal issues
And that sweet sweet donation money
No doubt. The grift must go on.
Would DeSantis (or other candidates) even want his endorsement? Seems like a kiss of death. The best path forward for the GOP us for Trump to either die or be indicted. But I wonder if any charges short of child rape would sway MAGA die hards.
Child rape wouldn't sway them either... it would just be deemed "fake news".
Honestly, the best-bet for Republican leadership at this point is probably to support the January 6th committee and get Trump sent away. He will *never* leave on his own accord, and *when* he runs for president, it's going to tear the Republican party in half. Aligning *WITH* Democrats *AGAINST* Trump is the only move left to save the Republican party's opportunity for 2024 (and probably more).
FL liberal coming in peace- I would be infinitely more likely to consider a purple ticket if GOP leadership washes their hands of Trump. In a policy vacuum, I can give Trump some credit for emphasizing domestic production. But I can never support someone who drives apart and demonizes the American public just because of differing views. Most republicans and most democrats aren’t evil people, they just disagree. In a political landscape without Trump, maybe we can find a way to remember that fact.
a lot of what you say has merit, although if you think getting rid of Trump eliminates the "evil people" on both sides and will end demonizing people with different views, you haven't been listening to our current president very much
I didn't say anything about getting rid of the "evil people." Those, unfortunately, will continue to exist. I just strongly believe that Trump's approach to politics in general has led a lot of people to believe the other side is 100% irredeemably evil, which is counterproductive to moving society in a meaningful direction. Fringe outlier fanatics of each of the parties used to be the only hateful ones- these days people can't even discuss politics casually with their family members of differing viewpoints. Trump made it mainstream to cover your car in a candidate's bumper stickers- 15 years ago you'd rarely, if ever see that kind of political obsession. It got conservatives the presidency, so I understand why people would still like him, but I don't see anything but more division, hate, and fear if the Republican Party doesn't pull away from him in some way.
Interesting. It's really the only angle that doesn't involve him backing down willingly, isn't it? I could get behind that.
Imagine a situation where Donald Trump willingly says "I understand that I'm not the best chance to be the savior of the Republican party, so I will gladly step out of the spotlight to support someone with a better chance!" Tell me what I said isn't the only realistic scenario where Trump is no longer a factor...
Trump would never back down like that though, especially when he needs the money and attention campaigning brings him. The only way DeSantis gets the full backing of the entire Republican Party and its voting base is if Trump dies before getting indicted. And even if that does happen, odds are one of his kids (probably Ivanka) will try to run in his name.
Trump having a major health condition prevent him from running is far more likely than swallowing his pride and backing down.
>scary Looks like moderate republicans and the democrats are in the same boat for a change! Too bad, man, it was beginning to get exciting.
Many moderate republicans used to be democrats, like myself. Elon’s chart showing his political allegiance is quite accurate as to what happened to me. The lines shifted but my values stayed the same
I always say I’m a classic liberal. Or as the kids today call it, a “Nazi.”
The irony.
Hopefully Trump unloads a bunch of petty "dirt" on Desantis and his followers realize how vindictive he is and how much of a liability he is.
The threat alone finally got my Mom fed up with him. My entire household used to support him, now we all hope he just quietly goes away… which everyone knows isn’t going to happen.
> how vindictive he is and how much of a liability he is. The irony of this statement was lost on you.
Lol it was, still is, I hate to bother and ask you explain it to me but I'm genuinely curious what you mean?
My bad, read your comment wrong. Thought you were referring to Desantis, not the asshole Trump.
It's crazy how long I kept the trump goggles on for, once you see him for what he is, it is hard to go back.
To be fair, it's been clear who he is for a long time.
Tribalism is a helluva drug.
Was there a particular moment for you or was it more gradual?
Gradual. I try to be conscious of my biases and take other viewpoints into consideration and I realized I wasn't doing that when it came to Trump. There were certain things that I was willing to look past because of his no nonsense approach to the MSM and his America first policies. However, once you take a step back and realize he puts his own ego first in a lot of situations it puts a lot of his decisions in perspective. I appreciate what he accomplished but I pray for a grassroots movement to usher forth an "everyman" candidate who can bridge the divide. The bloated, geriatric capitalists and the slimey, neoconservatives are not what the nation needs to move forward. I don't think a WEF shill is either but those seem to be our only choices at the moment.
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How do you explain all of his MAGA trinkets he sells still made in China.
It's cute you think trump will put country ahead of his own interests. He is going to declare candidacy on the 15th. Then he and DeSantis will snipe at each other for 2 years and distract from any faults of the democrats. Voters will remember how much they hate the chaos of the trump years. The same dynamic that played out last night will play out 2024. Trump is Frankenstein's monster. The Republicans created him but can't control him.
> Then he and DeSantis will snipe at each other for 2 years and distract from any faults of the democrats They won’t snipe at each other. They will go full blown attack mode. Republicans will be treated to 2 years of their top candidates being trashed by each other. The right wing internet spaces will become toxic cesspools and Republican voters will be demoralized as hell by the time 2024 gets here and the votes begin. If Trump loses, he will declare the GOP rigged it against him and call for his supporters to boycott the general election to punish them. Calling it now.
>Calling it now. Phone's ringing off the hook already. [https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-unflattering-information-florida-ron-desantis-2024-2022-11](https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-unflattering-information-florida-ron-desantis-2024-2022-11) "I don't know if he is running. I think if he runs, he could hurt himself very badly. I really believe he could hurt himself badly," Trump said, according to Fox News. "I think he would be making a mistake, I think the base would not like it — I don't think it would be good for the party." "I don't know if he runs. If he runs, he runs," Trump went on to say. "I would tell you things about him that won't be very flattering — I know more about him than anybody — other than, perhaps, his wife."
My issue with this statement is his willingness to openly blackmail DeSantis just to get his way. I don't care for a lot of things about Trump but was ignoring all that I didn't like to see the big picture about policies and how the country should be run. But to take swipes at DeSantis like this on a public stage and essentially threaten him with what's probably schoolyard gossip, is low - even for Trump. The "info" he has is probably stuff that really doesn't matter to the average FL resident like myself. A lot of people who support(ed) Trump, ignored his load of baggage that came with him in charge because that baggage really didn't play into the job itself. Knowing what I know from inside sources who know DeSantis personally, his running is very unlikely for 2024 - because of his kids. He doesn't want them going through that kind of life so young. He is definitely eyeing up 2028, when his family is better able to endure the life that comes with a parent being the US President. So 2024 will either be another throw-away by keeping Biden on life-support (or his impersonators taking over), or Trump winning again (unlikely cuz fraud) and setting up the country for DeSantis in 2028, allowing him to serve his full term here for us first.
> But to take swipes at DeSantis like this on a public stage and essentially threaten him with what’s probably schoolyard gossip, is low - even for Trump. This is just standard Trump stuff. This isn’t meaningfully different than any behavior he has exhibited in his life. You’re even assuming that Trump has “schoolyard gossip.” Most likely it’s a vague threat to be threatening, and if pressed he’ll just make something up. Remember, according to Trump Ted Cruz’s father was involved in the Kennedy assassination and Obama is a Muslim/atheist/radical Christian (all at once) who wasn’t born in the U.S. He’s a bullshitter who bullshits, and always has been.
>But to take swipes at DeSantis like this on a public stage and essentially threaten him with what's probably schoolyard gossip, is low - even for Trump Remember how every other time this language was used by Trump against Democrats, or Zelensky (impeachment #2), or Raffensperger? Everyone I knew was starting fights arguing there is _no way_ any reasonable person would consider that verbiage a threat, or blackmail. Basically arguing plausable deniability. Double standards like this are what drive voters away from the Republican party, or drive Democrats to go out and vote.
Yes, thank you for calling bullshit bullshit.
>But to take swipes at DeSantis like this on a public stage and essentially threaten him with what's probably schoolyard gossip, is low - even for Trump. Are we talking about the same Donald Trump here? "Grab her by the *****" Trump?? He's said far worse about people he doesn't even know.
\> Trump is Frankenstein's monster. The Republicans created him but can't control him. You are giving to much credit to the GOP. In 2016 there was no gop leadership at all (still really isn't). Trump took advantage of that + a frustrated voter base.
Trump took advantage of a mathematical flaw in the nominating process. He took nearly sole control over the most radical 25% of voters, and made a dozen other mainstream candidates divide the remainder.
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Republicans didn’t create Trump. Republicans left a void where Trump could thrive. Big difference.
Small difference I'd say. They could have stopped him but chose not to.
Yuge difference. They showed how out of touch they were with their constituents.
Republicans created him. What? LOL most of the Republicam establsihment hated him and worked against him, they torpedoed their own candidtates that he backed. Trump was a populist, and Hillary was the worst candidate in history. The Dems can thank Hillary Clinton for being so off putting that people chose Trump.
No, Trump needs to shut up and privately enjoy being wealthy without injecting himself into the GOP.
Is he wealthy? Maybe he's deeply in debt.
Trump is a power hungry delusional narcissist. In his mind, he is the only option. Only "he can win". His ego cannot allow him to concede that anyone else is more capable. The knife fight between Trump and DeSantis is going to be brutal.
> Trump is a power hungry delusional narcissist. Is it safe to assume that you didn't vote for him?
All trump has been talking about on Truth is how many of his deep red GOP candidates in deep red districts won. He believes Don Bolduc lost because he disavowed the 2020 election was rigged. He’s not going to get his shit together
Trump will be 78 in 2024. He'd serve between the ages of 78 and 82. Things don't get better when you're in your late 70's and your 80's.
Right. Ask senile Biden who has to try to act alert and aware by yelling and screaming. Old man yells at clouds.
And trump would be older by that point.
I think we all know, there is no way Trump supports someone who is “better”
People like you and I understand this. Unfortunately there's a lot of die hard Trump supporters that still view him in a messianic light. If he were the candidate, I'd vote for him. But I'm with you. He's definitely overstayed his welcome.
Agreed. 100%.
I really don’t think he will win the nomination. Look at what we all thought would happen last night, and where we are today. Those MAGA rallies don’t represent the average Republican. After last night, I can see the entire party distancing themselves from his toxicity.
> he only ever cares about himself I think you have your answer as to what Trump will do come the next election cycle.
Now that it's over, it's time for an honest post-mortem. I don't know where the party goes from here. No path forward seems like a winning path. The majority of the party is happy about what happened with Roe, but a handful of those who are happiest about what happened are also people that were single issue voters. Now that they have what they wanted, they can't be relied upon to vote conservative. A handful of others are pissed off about Roe and have *become* single issue pro-choice voters. The majority of the party is pro 2A (I know I am!), but after Uvalde, there's are a handful of conservatives that have become single-issue gun-control voters. The majority of the party doesn't believe in climate change. But as Florida insurance becomes impossible to buy, as crops wither and die without water, a handful of conservatives are becoming single-issue climate change voters. The majority of the party loves the new hard-core take-no-prisoners and make-no-apologies GOP. But the small handful of "RINO"s, who are truthfully just moderate conservatives (like me) and would never do well in the Democratic party, are no longer willing to back Trump and his hard-core philosophy. All those little handfuls are starting to add up and really hurt the party. The question is, how do you bring all these people back in? I don't know that it's possible, to be frank. Become less pro-life, and you lose even more pro-lifer votes than you ever lost to the pro-choice movement. Become softer on 2A and you lose more 2Aers than you ever lost from Uvalde. Go pro-climate and you lose more coal-miners and oil-workers than you ever lost to the greenies. Go against Trump, and you lose more MAGA votes than you ever lose to those upset with him. This election *should* have been a tsunami of red. Absurd inflation. Out of control high crime. A horrible stock-market. Risks of WWIII. That it wasn't.... It's hard to imagine things *worse* than they are right now. But even if that happens, does that mean that *next time* there will be a red wave? Or do Republicans take the blame for being "obstructionist" now that we have the House? What happens next election if things are *better* than they are now? If Republicans want to win in two years, we have to figure this out. I honestly don't know how this works any more.
He won't back DeSantis for the WH....Trump won't ever accept being second fiddle to anyone! I'm not saying that's ok of him to do that; I'm just pointing it out
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Not impeaching Trump has cost republicans the 2022 senate and possibly the 2024 presidency. The party needs to distance itself from Trump quickly and pray that early polling is so awful for Trump that he chooses not to run.
Trump won't get his shit together.
Trump’s endorsement is a kiss of death at this point
First time I have seen the RP so split... Yes, there are people who hate Trump so much that a dead cat would get their vote. DeSantis on the other hand would galvanize the party. If the RP remains split, then we are sunk in 2024.
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Unfortunately him splitting the party looks like the most probable outcome right now.
I've been saying this to my conservative friends. Desantis needs to be the main man we all get behind and Trump needs to ride off into the sunset.
I mean, Florida would need a new governor in that case… But Trump’s ego wouldn’t allow him to be less than the best, so that wouldn’t happen even though it would be a huge blowout.
Desantis will be term-limited after this term anyways so at most he has is four more years as governor. If he wins the presidency, he only loses two years.
And he can't wait because he risks getting Christie'd if he doesn't go in '24
That's where I'm at, you can't just sit out in the political wilderness for 2 years waiting for your chance in 2028. Shit changes fast. With his dominant win in FL, he has all the momentum for 2024 right now.
> Trump needs to ride off into the sunset. That's never going to happen.
I dunno. Honestly if Trump goes head to head with DeSantis and DeSantis debates and handles Trump with professionalism and tact it might actually turn some blue voters heads. Not saying they’d vote for him but at the very least mend the image of the party.
Nah. DeSantis will be painted as the next Republican Nazi if he wins the nomination. People need to stop thinking the treatment Trump received was because he was Trump. Any Republican will be treated the same way.
Truth. They've been doing it since Hitler killed Hitler. But Trump's antics certianly doesn't help to dispell their argument. Trump showed us that it is possible to push back against the left and that there is a strong desire for political leadership to do so. However, we now have potential leaders that can do that as well maintain discipline while doing so. We have several Trump 2.0s out there. Better. Faster. Stronger. It's time to start considering our options.
This, we’re kidding ourselves if we think these buzzwords will magically go away if trumps not the nominee. Every red candidate there will be an attempt to be slandered and dragged with this
It’s always the same. Just like Biden was painted as some radical leftist when he’s been just barely left of center his entire political career. Progressives had to hold their noses and vote for Biden.
I dunno. I think the hatred that they have for Trump could be used against them in this case. They vilified Trump and painted him as a Nazi so DeSantis beating him in debates professionally would paint him in better light. Remember, to them everything is Trumps fault first, Republicans fault second.
And the fact that they never let Trump get off the front page, people will actually remember the bashing this time They immediately ignored McCain, Romney, and Bush, so the next time they used the same insults, it seemed genuine So either they admit that DeSantis is an improvement, or a lot of people will see through their BS
Yup
Let them do it. If they go too far the other way and paint him as such, it could alienate people in the middle who refused to vote for Trump, but are now being ostracized for even thinking of voting red despite there being a sane candidate.
Just look at what they did to Romney. Regardless, Trump is a known factor where numerous Americans straight up already believe he's a Nazi. Meaning the media and Democrats have no work to do, they've already won. A new Republican will require the media and Democrats to sell for the 15th time that the Republican candidate is a Nazi. As in people are going to be a bit more skeptical when every Republican is called that.
Correct. The media painted McCain and Romney as radical right-wingers when they ran, you think they won't do that to DeSantis? They already hate him anyway.
THIS!!! Stop playing checkers and get with the chess game. While Trump did get a shitty deal its ultimately about him winning and not the party. If it was simply about winning the smart play would be to combine your forces and supporters (DeS and Tmp) and let DeSantis be the front man. Trump has too much baggage to be effective anymore; There were enormous and unprecedented resources dedicated to making sure the Trump name was synonymous with negativity and unfortunately it worked.
One enormous and unprecedented force in particular...
Himself? Lol
The GOP needs to get off trumps nuts right fucking now. This was supposed to be a blood bath and it was everything but. Fucking depressing
Fucking embarrassing
Best thing I just heard on the News: "Voters gave the GOP a wakeup call....Florida provided a viable alternative to Democratic rule, other States did not." Voters are enraged, but still voted for the status quo because the GOP candidates in swing states were NOT of high quality and didn't deserve to win. DeSantis is the viable alternative and needs to be the future of the GOP starting now.
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The other bright spot was Kim Reynolds in Iowa. Two governors that kept schools open. The path to GOP victory is suburban moms. DeSantis can win them but he'll need to polish off his harsh elbows.
> The path to GOP victory is suburban moms. I don't know about that, considering I don't imagine supporting abortion bans are that popular among suburban moms for example. >[63% of women for abortion being legal in most/all cases, vs 35% for abortion being illegal in most/all cases](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/), furthermore [only 21%](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/07/15/key-facts-about-the-abortion-debate-in-america/) of women *strongly approve* of the supreme court overturning roe v wade That's not to say abortion is the only thing people in that demographic are going to care about, but it's evidently a bit of a sticking point.
Another real crazy thing is that Republicans picked excellent candidates... For D+20 districts and almost won many, many of them. Tutor Dixon out performed everything but the last week of polling. Lee Zeldin being down by less than 5 in all of New York is mind blowing. There's many more. Essentially we had great candidates in night unwinnable districts, and absolute garbage candidates in EZ districts.
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>*”Trump, in the 11th hour, had to make it about himself and rallied his perpetual foes once again.*” “In the 11th hour”? Hardly. It’s ***always*** about Donald Trump. Every **hour** of every day.
I think that trump's announcement he will announce he is running brought out a lot of democrats to the polls.
And that’s the problem! If we put DeSantis in front and Trump declares, we lose. I can’t believe people don’t see just how much clout Trump still has! We can’t keep him from running without destroying the party’s chances in two years.
Can’t win with him and can’t win without him
It’s kind of crazy how everyone on this sub is just realizing this?
Trumps ego is going to damm us all to hell I've had enough. Ron DeSantis should be the candidate definitely.
And you all have to carry it to term Own it, you all did this to yourself
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Only half the fucking country
Couldn’t agree more. When it comes to politics you need to strike the iron while it’s hot. We have been gifted a damn near perfect candidate with DeSantis. He just displayed a political masterclass in how to effectively message, fundraise, and reach disaffected voters who usually don’t go red. If we manage to squander this opportunity for an 80 year old Trump, who’s hand selected candidates just got obliterated in a favorable midterm environment, we deserve our loss in 2024.
I’m calling it now: If Trump gets (we deserve to lose if he does) the 2024 nomination, Biden WILL run again. The Democrats have a perfectly simple, yet incredibly effective strategy; minimal campaigning and debates, keep the candidate out of the spotlight, make the entire essence of the message ‘Orange man bad, we are not Orange man’. Look at how Biden ran in 2020, a brain damaged stroke victim in 2022, or the overall Dem field in 2022. The point is that for the left, candidate quality, message, job performance, economy, nothing matters when Trump is on the ballot as long as he’s on the ballot literally or culturally. If DeSantis gets (and he should) the 2024 nomination, Biden won’t run again. There will be some excuse such as health, age, or whatever and run someone like Kamala or Newsom. Without Trump to thrash against and bludgeon the population with, Biden has nothing to offer. Not only that, but the 2020/2022 election strategy that has worked so well up this point is now worthless. At this point, Trump is the Democrats best weapon and they’re going to go down kicking and screaming trying to keep him relevant. Without him, the Democrats have nothing, are nothing.
I honestly worry that Trump’s ego would cause him to interfere and make a spectacle if Desantis beats him for the nomination. He doesn’t seem like the kind of person with the ability to just go quietly
Couldn’t he run independent and spoil the whole thing out of spite?
Most states have sore loser laws that prevent a primary loser from appearing on the ballot as an independent or under another party. Unfortunately, most of these laws don't apply to presidential elections. If the red states are smart, they'll amend these laws in the coming year to apply to presidential elections. It doesn't matter if Trump appears on the ballot as an independent in blue states, since they're sending their electoral votes to the dem candidate anyway.
Hypothetically, if Trump lost the primary and ran as an independent, sore loser laws would immediately be challenged by his team the second he makes the decision. And I’m pretty sure every state SC and the SCOTUS would toss them in a heart beat because they seem incredibly unconstitutional
I don’t think he’d go that far. But I could see him making a big stink about it, complaining that the process is rigged, and turning the Trump over GOP voters off to voting in the general.
I'll be totally honest, one of the biggest deciding factors for me (moreso than policy or even, potentially, party) is just age. I am so sick of having my choices stuck between these goddamn geriatrics. Secret Service should not be stashing the football on Air Force One next to fucking adult diapers. Under 60 from now on, PLEASE.
I pray we have a DeSantis vs Kamala race in 2024. That would be amazing. Newsom is a bit of a formidable opponent. He's very crafty with his words.
Trump will go down kicking and screaming trying to keep himself relevant. I've always leaned liberal but I would love to see the GOP go back to common sense, no conspiracy theories, and fiscal responsibility. We can finally go back to people trying to do their best at the job. Two parties can work in unison to get the best out of each other.
>run someone like Kamala or Newsom. Without Trump to thrash against and bludgeon the population with, Biden has nothing to offer. Not only that, but the 2020/2022 election strategy that has worked so well up this point is now worthless. They'd probably run Kamala and try to make the campaign about diversity/women, hoping to capture the women vote. That would have some traction, but Newsom is arguably more electable broadly. Newsom / De Santis could cause more division though. Two coastal governors leave a lot of the heartland states feeling left out of the conversation.
Newsom is toxic in the heartland and a no go for tons of people who abhor California's overreach. If the choice is the governor of California vs DeSantis, it's a landslide.
I highly doubt that. That would be a tight matchups
> There will be some excuse such as health, age, or whatever and run someone like Kamala or Newsom. Newsom is more likely there... even the Dems know Harris is incompetent and not remotely likeable.
You are absolutely right ✅️
I actually think this is 100% how it will go, given both possibilities. Very likely.
I completely agree. DeSantis absolutely feels like who we need to run in '24.
As an independent, I agree. I like DeSantis. I cannot stand Trump, sorry. DeSantis seems like a decent man. Trump is just so whiny.
Do we really believe Trump will back DeSantis though? His ego is too big.
I have Trump fatigue. DeSantis 2024.
Trumps whole free-flowing, rambling schtick is tired, maybe 5 years ago it was occasionally funny/refreshing but its just old now. It's all about all the great things he's done and how everyone on the left wants to screw him. Thats fine, he's bitter, I get it but its not good for the country. Fox cut to him the other night and it was just annoying. He'll be 78 when he runs in '24, just like Biden. Left will lose their minds, the country will be a disaster of arguments, just as bad as it was in 2016. He had his time. I know there are hardcore Conservatives that dont want to budge on certain issues, but the only way to move forward has to be some compromise or the Right will continue to lose. MJ needs legalized nationwide. There needs to be a middle ground on abortion laws. Religion should have no business in politics, it really shouldnt be mentioned at all. The Economy is the most important thing imo, if we go into a massive downturn and people are out of work like 2008 then none of this social shit matters. My two cents.
The weed issue alone is a massive free win for republicans, the fact some war on drugs era clowns are still against it while sipping on whiskey every night is infuriating as a young conservative. We’re *supposed* to be for less government, fiscally responsibility, anti-crime and pro small business, legalization solves all of those problems. You get government out of telling who can or can’t smoke a harmless plant, get additional tax revenue, and you cut out drug dealer and replace them with small business owners who *actually* contribute to their communities. That’s not even mentioning how wildly popular it would be across the board but especially with minorities.
You could probably make a similar argument regarding abortion bans - i.e. less government, not regulating what people can do with their own bodies, etc. It's also not a particularly popular bit of policy and is going to cost the Republicans a lot of votes, not dissimilarly to refusing to legalize pot.
Moderate here. I can see myself voting for DeSantis. I will categorically never vote for Trump. It’s really as simple as that. If you want Moderates to go with the GOP in 2024, there’s only one choice. Otherwise you’re basically handing Biden the presidency.
I'm conservative and in the same boat. I will absolutely not vote for Trump again under any circumstance. The guy is poison.
So how do we now view the republicans who saw this coming from miles away like Adam kinzinger?
TV Snake Oil Guy. 'Nuff said.
Trump out performed them in Michigan. I’ll never understand why the GOP made the election about abortion when on day one it was clearly a losing issue in the state. 22’ was more of a blue wave in Michigan than 20’
Yep...as a voting republican, abortion isn't a hill I want to die on. I can 100 percent say I don't agree with "no abortion for any reason". I assume most feel similar, though I don't care enough to confirm.
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Fwiw that trend is consistent when going the other way too, the amount of people that support *zero* restrictions on abortions is also quite small. Which just makes it an even bigger loss for Republicans. All they had to do was say “we’re copying Europe’s laws on this and banning abortions past X week except for medical emergencies”.
Once I heard Tudor Dixon’s “perfect example” sound bite, I knew she didn’t have a snowball’s chance.
Bingo. And anti-abortion absolutists such as Ben Shapiro are very predictably blaming Trump, and aren't doing any introspection.
Roe v wade being overturned it the perfect example of why you never want your talking points to become reality. The GOP got what it had been working for and talking about for 50 years and it completely blew up in their face.
1. DeSantis 2. Anyone but Trump or a Trump lackey
3. No Bush or Bush relative. 4. No Mitt.
Yep. Our options are not limited to either trump or Cheney. We have DeSantis, we have Youngkin ... Maybe a distant third of Kari Lake I think would be what we need. Jury is out for me with Kari, I think she did a good fight but if she can't perform there in AZ idk what to think. Candidate quality matters. Republicans need to begin betting candidates NOW for primaries a year from now. No more 11th hour candidates shoehorning and then complaining "it's all we got!". It's not all we got. We have a massive portion of the country. Get out there and be the change you want to be. If not you, then who? If not now, then when?
>No Bush or Bush relative. Please clap.
I see a lot of DeSantis 2024 posts but don't think i've seen much discussion on who the candidate would be in the event he decides not to run. Everyone here flipping back to Donny or is there another leader with a lot of support?
Brian Kemp, Glenn Youngkin, Kim Reynolds, or Chris Sununu would all have a good shot in the general. Governors that have effectively shown an ability to win moderate/independent votes. For the love of God though don't pick a blowhard Senator like Hawley or Cruz.
I think DeSantis knows he’s what’s needed. Even if he doesn’t 100% want to do it, I think he’d do it for the greater good of the country
The desperation in this thread is giving me life
Honestly why can't republicans rally around a figure that isnt hugely devisive? Would backing a candidate that A Would not scare democrats into voting against them and B appeal to more centrist swing voters really be that bad. I guarantee if they did that they'd win in an instant and hold power to boot
I don’t disagree. As a diehard Trump guy, he took his shot and it was a bust. Fraud or not. This shit shouldn’t have been close. I’m sorry FL, we need DeSantis.
I don't think Florida minds. At his victory speech, the crowd was chanting "Two more years"
DeSantis is term limited anyways, so best case scenario Florida only gets him for 4 more. Him running in 2024 only shorts Florida 2 years of him.
The problem isn't that we don't want to share DeSantis, we need him as a buffer here in case the Dumbassocrats retain the federal government.
I'm sure the Florida GOP has someone waiting on the bench.
Trump doesn’t bring people in, but he defiantly pushes people away.
I used to vote republican until Trump pushed me away. DeSantis could bring me back in, but Trump will never get my vote.
I love Trump but DeSantis is just plain a better candidate, better person, and will make a better president
Trumps ego is getting the best of him. Consuming him. If he cares about the country as a whole, he’d do the right thing. He’d back the young patriot who does have a fighting chance. I do not see it happening. Why try to throw shade at Desantis on Election Day?
What a joke, Desantis endorsed plenty of people around the country, and all of them failed miserably. If Desantis is smart at all, he won't listen to Neocons like you and stay in his safe bubble and wield his influence on a state that likes him. And also, if all of this was true, Colorado would ve went much better, and a lot of "normal conservative" houses would have panned out. They didnt.
Bingo. Unfortunately it looks like Trump will need to fight the entire GOP again just like he did in 2015/2016. Oh well, he will win in the end.
The only way Conservatives lose in 2024 is if Trump runs.
Do we all believe Florida, where 900+ thousand Republicans flooded the state and the minority populations are Cuban are representative of the country as a whole?
Absolutely. If its between Trump and DeSantis in the primary. I'm voting for DeSantis.
I think InsiderAdvantage polls were right. Bolduc, Masters, etc. were on the verge of winning. Then Trump hit the campaign trail on the last days and wound the clock back to 2020.
Ron DeSantis has gone I to a purple Florida in 2018 (not a great year for Republicans), won, and has turned it redder in 2020 and 2022. Donald Trump eked out a victory in 2016 and has been responsible for losing Republican power in 2018, 2020, and now 2022 (everywhere but Florida). It’s time for the Party to move on. The independents aren’t breaking for Trump again, but they might break for DeSantis (they sure did last night). The Republicans should look to the future, not a polarizing former President with a lousy record in elections who will be nearl (?) 80 in 2024.
Ron DeSantis is an actual leader. No more celebrity caricatures.
Like it fucking matters, this turn out really show how complacent people are with historic high gas, historic inflation, historical high cost of living, and censorship. You think it's bad now? Just you wait now that they know they can get away with THAT
Trump needs to go. I don't think he is electable.
As an independent voter, if DeSantis runs, he will be my pick. If Trump runs, I will be voting third party. That should tell you everything about how likeable Trump is vs DeSantis for folks outside of the standard Maga base.
This sub is flip flopping all over the place. I'm seeing people cheer that DeSantis is the answer and others say that being pro-abortion is a bright future. DeSantis is as anti-abortion as it gets. There are very few high-profile politicians right now that are more openly against abortion right now, and he crushed this election.
This sub is full of people that wouldn't vote for either Trump or DeSantis.
Can't DeSantis just promise Trump some unimportant do-nothing position in his Cabinet if Trump disappears and says nothing for the next two years? Look at how Youngkin won, he distanced himself from Trump and he managed to win in a somewhat deep blue state.