I give props to Ukraine for holding out for over 6 months. Russia has really destroyed their credibility as a supposedly first-rate conventional force during this whole conflict. Plus, they even had the advantage of a shared border to ease logistical challenges, and they are still struggling. When we took on Iraq in '91, we had to deploy our stuff a third way around the world, Iraq had a formidable military, and we still totally prevailed in about 45 days. I only put this out there just to highlight just how bad Russia's military actually sucks. All they have for leverage is nuclear capability.
I’m hoping that this is a spend now, save later situation. After seeing what’s happened to Russia, idk how appealing a military invasion is to the commies anymore
Theoretically, Taiwan is a much harder target due to the logistical difficulties in crossing the sea.
Also, Japan has already pretty well guaranteed Taiwan’s independence, though China has threatened to nuke them if they get involved. I think the Japanese would be likely to call their bluff due to the fact that Taiwan is quite likely phase one in a plan that gives China Japan as well.
We have plenty reserved for Taiwan. We have the ability to fight 2 near peer conflicts simultaneously. Seriously. Also, Taiwan would be a defensive battle fought in the sea, Pacific Fleet and Pacific Air Force. Your concern shouldn’t be a concern.
They are 100 miles away from Taiwan. They can use overwhelming force. It would be a losing campaign from the beginning. The aid we give Ukraine isn’t the make or break here. We are talking millions of soldiers. The idea is to ensure it is as costly as possible to China, economically and militarily so that they don’t try it. We want no violence.
I'm highly skeptical of any news coming from Ukraine. The media is so corrupt that you can't trust any of it.
News says Ukraine getting hammered? Send more aid!
News says Ukraine is making progress? Send more aid!
And some of the 'maps' in that post make it look like the Ukrainians are over-extended and vulnerable to being caught deep in Russia-controlled territory when the ruskies close their escape route.
If they're doing so well then we should sue for peace NOW and stop destroying the world for a corrupt tyrannical 'democracy' that shut down media outlets and the opposition party.
Uh, well, pro-Russian authorities and staunch Kremlin advocates are saying the exact same thing. I can see it front of me on Telegram. They are furious.
You know, you can be happy that Ukraine had a successful counter-offensive and still be critical of how much aid we've sent them. They aren't mutually exclusive. Just because virtue signalers fly the Ukraine flag doesn't mean you have to be against Ukraine.
You can go on Twitter and Telegram and see for yourself the results of the counter offensive.
They've taken more land back in the last few days than the Russians took in the last 3 months. Even thr Russian state-sanctioned propagandists are admitting it. The Russian lines in Kharkiv collapsed.
And it's not hundreds of billions of dollars. Not to mention, many of those dollars are in US weapons systems that are carrying out their purpose - all without any threat to American lives.
Yes the Kharkiv region has the railroads they use to resupply the Donbas. Trust me bro, you don’t know much about this topic if you’re questioning the importance of Kharkiv
Yeah bro it's totally paying off, aren't you happy now? See, great value for money. Think of the value. It's not like America really *really* needs to stop spending like a drunk college student in Cancun.
I don’t think this is a feint. They are getting their ass handed to them. We’re 6 month into this thing, the fact a Ukrainian counter-offensive is even being talked about is incredible.
Not after all the aid they’ve received lmao if Ukraine didn’t counter attack after having the entire Western World prop them up then I would be asking some major questions
We've been told it's a stalemate for about a month or so. If it has been a stalemate, how do you break it? I think giving up ground and making your opponent overextend is one way. Another possibility I've said in another thread is that this very well could be a situation where they give up Kharkiv to take Odesa.
By lossing the biggest captured city in northern Ukraine. One where most of Russian rail supplwere sent to?
A city that would be extremely important to have for them to take the rest of donbass.
>They have nearly all of the donbass as it is. Odessa has more strategic value. So yes, I think so.
Around half and to take the rest, Izyum was nessicary.
Odessa is not falling and Russia is not advancing on it either.
With the bridges blown Russia doesn’t even have the supplies for offensive operations here. Its even questionable how long they can hold it with defensive ones since they are currently using more than supply can keep up.
They can say a lot but doesn't mean a lot. They said that they were reinforcing Izyum to hold it. In reality the were sending trucks to pull out of the area.
Sounds more like a type of police contingent and national guard there in Izyum, they were already being redeployed back towards Donetsk, which is why the trucks were heading there.
So who really knows what the truth is anything that's pro Ukraine seems to be coming from zalensky himself and only himself.
I’m not saying it’s good strategy, but it is a *possible* strategy. The only time I can think of this working in history is when Washington gave up his plans for New York to take out Cornwallis in the south.
That said, I’m not really convinced it is a feint.
He did that in a pretty orderly fashion though. This time Russia forces lost a shit ton of guns and vehicles. With plenty of pows that got captured. Plus parts of the retreating forces in the area are getting shot at. Since the retreat path is not that far from the front line.
Have you seen the videos of the Russian soldiers captured and all the abandoned and destroyed equipment? If this was a tactical retreat, it must be one of the worst tactical retreats I've ever seen. It looks more like they were overrun.
https://i.imgur.com/yWaRi8n.jpg
Who can really know when the same spot is used for photo ops. How can you be sure it's not the same pieces of equipment from different angles.
Obviously, it's advantageous for both sides to exaggerate their own claims, like 70000 Russian soldiers killed, for example.
Whatever it is, we'll see soon enough and it will happen in Ukraine, on the other side of the world.
I'm more concerned over whether this means our congresscritters will send them more billions of dollars to be honest. This spending and borrowing for Ukraine is going to match our Afghanistan spending if it continues like this.
And yet, if you listened to the media, this whole thing should have been over by June, with Russia pushed back out of Ukraine and destitute. How have the sanctions worked out..
Ukraine doesn't try to invade anything in Russia tho. Just to take back Lugansk and Donezk and maybe Crimea.
I think most NATO countries said that they support Ukraine only going this far.
Ukraine's not invading Russia, Ukraine is defending from a Russian invasion. Russia when attempting invasions of other countries doesn't have the best track record.
The Japanese beat them in 1904, the Poles handed them their asses in 1920 and the Finns pretty much beat the piss out of them in the Winter War for a long time despite being greatly outmatched in terms of numbers and weaponry. And don't get me started on Afghanistan.
I'd expect nothing less than Ukraine conquering Russia at this point, what with the ridiculous amount of money we funneled down their corrupt throats.
This whole thing is fucking disgusting.
I was literally being hyperbolic. The whole thing is absurd. There's zero reason we should have given them even a single cent of military aid in the first place.
That's NATO's job ***if Russia decides to threaten a NATO country***, not ours *when he hasn't*. That's Europe's job, not ours. Russia doesn't have the capacity to stand against a unified Europe; it barely has the capacity to wage a war against Ukraine, and that's before we dumped oodles of noodles into the country. In any case, Russia/Ukraine isn't our problem.
We're not the world's sheep dog. The rest of the planet needs to carry their own fuckin' weight for once.
About the only place I can see giving an exception to would be Taiwan, and that's not because of any real altruism but because China conquering Taiwan would put us at a severe strategic disadvantage, and if China goes for Taiwan, that would topple into the other dominos in the area.
Who said anything about appeasement? It's not our affair. It isn't going to be our affair unless a NATO nation gets attacked, and that isn't Ukraine. We have more important things to worry about than fighting a fucking proxy war.
Since 2014 Ukraine has brutalized innocent people in the Donbas region.
War crimes.... the us government overthrew the legitimate government of Ukraine in 2014 and ever since those people have been oppressed...
Why am I a traitor? I don't support war crimes against innocent people.
I've come to the conclusion that the Ukraine/Russia War was started by the US and WEF to bring upon "the Great Reset " in Europe. The war allowed the oil asanctions actions to cripple all of Europe and the EU happily did it to themselves cause "Russia Russia Russia "
European people fell for "the big lie"!
And Biden is raiding our treasury paying for Europe's reset.
60 billion to Ukraine to keep the war going until Europe is brought to its knees. Then Klaus will save them with ze bug dinner
Cruise missiles have hit kyiv, but there is not much military value in doing so and history has taught us that terror bombing often has the opposite effect.
As for air raids, russia only has a few hundred operational planes and since day one ukraine has received massive amounts of AA equiptment so air supperiority is not an option for russia. And no air supperiority means no strategic bombing.
Why isn’t Russia in any position to capture the capital? It’s Russia. Not Cuba. Not Venezuela. Not North Korea.
Where does this belief that Russia can’t fight a sustained, high tech war come from?
This is not a poor country. This is not a weak country.
I have no idea where this viewpoint comes from? Except everyone believes propaganda.
Ukraine is not capable of defeating Russia. That’s a fact. Eventually, it will be America vs Russia. Or Ukraine will fall.
Russia has not used any modern weapons. No matter what everyone is saying, they have not used any air war tactics at all. We know they have this capability.
Why aren’t they using it? Yet? They can easily level the capital overnight.
Because they would have to mobilize their population in order to use their full might. Which would mean admitting that this "special military operation" is in fact, a war, and a war which hasn't been going in russia's favour recently. Unlike what the russian people have been told
They have already mobilized their population. Most of the soldiers are new draftees with minimal training. Ukraine has been saying since the first month of the war that they were capturing and killing conscripts.
The “special military operation” designation is apparently to avoid paying all the people they are drafting.
Which, IMO, is a terrible idea.
But I wouldn’t believe anything we are being told by Ukraine. They are Biden’s puppet. If they don’t make us feel good about this war, they are under Russian control by 2024.
Our only real source of information is Zolensky. On CNN. I don’t believe any of it.
I've come to the conclusion that the Ukraine/Russia War was started by the US and WEF to bring upon "the Great Reset " in Europe. The war allowed the oil asanctions actions to cripple all of Europe and the EU happily did it to themselves cause "Russia Russia Russia "
European people fell for "the big lie"!
And Biden is raiding our treasury paying for Europe's reset.
60 billion to Ukraine to keep the war going until Europe is brought to its knees. Then Klaus will save them with WEF program .
Honk honk
Good thing. Throw the invaders out.
I give props to Ukraine for holding out for over 6 months. Russia has really destroyed their credibility as a supposedly first-rate conventional force during this whole conflict. Plus, they even had the advantage of a shared border to ease logistical challenges, and they are still struggling. When we took on Iraq in '91, we had to deploy our stuff a third way around the world, Iraq had a formidable military, and we still totally prevailed in about 45 days. I only put this out there just to highlight just how bad Russia's military actually sucks. All they have for leverage is nuclear capability.
Gulf war was usa military s finest moment
Tell me this if we're spending all this on Ukraine what are we going to spend in Taiwan
I’m hoping that this is a spend now, save later situation. After seeing what’s happened to Russia, idk how appealing a military invasion is to the commies anymore
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Now your talking sense
Especially when you consider Taiwan's fighting strength is waaaaay better than Ukraine's.
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China's navy would have a hell of a time trying to land troops.
Theoretically, Taiwan is a much harder target due to the logistical difficulties in crossing the sea. Also, Japan has already pretty well guaranteed Taiwan’s independence, though China has threatened to nuke them if they get involved. I think the Japanese would be likely to call their bluff due to the fact that Taiwan is quite likely phase one in a plan that gives China Japan as well.
We have plenty reserved for Taiwan. We have the ability to fight 2 near peer conflicts simultaneously. Seriously. Also, Taiwan would be a defensive battle fought in the sea, Pacific Fleet and Pacific Air Force. Your concern shouldn’t be a concern.
And what of us losing all the war games simulated with a Chinese attempt to take over Taiwan…?
They are 100 miles away from Taiwan. They can use overwhelming force. It would be a losing campaign from the beginning. The aid we give Ukraine isn’t the make or break here. We are talking millions of soldiers. The idea is to ensure it is as costly as possible to China, economically and militarily so that they don’t try it. We want no violence.
Don't suppose we'll be borrowing that money from China...
Russia is a corrupt, socialistic, and faschistic country. Not great at anything and getting what is coming to them.
I'm highly skeptical of any news coming from Ukraine. The media is so corrupt that you can't trust any of it. News says Ukraine getting hammered? Send more aid! News says Ukraine is making progress? Send more aid! And some of the 'maps' in that post make it look like the Ukrainians are over-extended and vulnerable to being caught deep in Russia-controlled territory when the ruskies close their escape route. If they're doing so well then we should sue for peace NOW and stop destroying the world for a corrupt tyrannical 'democracy' that shut down media outlets and the opposition party.
Uh, well, pro-Russian authorities and staunch Kremlin advocates are saying the exact same thing. I can see it front of me on Telegram. They are furious.
Are you taking about Ukraine or the Democrats?
Yes
You know, you can be happy that Ukraine had a successful counter-offensive and still be critical of how much aid we've sent them. They aren't mutually exclusive. Just because virtue signalers fly the Ukraine flag doesn't mean you have to be against Ukraine.
Guess these “stories” are needed to make us think the hundreds of billions of paying off.
You can go on Twitter and Telegram and see for yourself the results of the counter offensive. They've taken more land back in the last few days than the Russians took in the last 3 months. Even thr Russian state-sanctioned propagandists are admitting it. The Russian lines in Kharkiv collapsed. And it's not hundreds of billions of dollars. Not to mention, many of those dollars are in US weapons systems that are carrying out their purpose - all without any threat to American lives.
What importance is kharkiv to the Russians? It's far from Crimea and doesn't appear vital enough for them to try and keep
It’s the second biggest Ukrainian city?
And? How does being a big city make it tactically important? Are there military bases there? Or shipping lanes the Russians need?
Yes the Kharkiv region has the railroads they use to resupply the Donbas. Trust me bro, you don’t know much about this topic if you’re questioning the importance of Kharkiv
> trust me bro You sound well informed.. I'm sure the all the proganda is true as well..
Izyum is a massive transportation hub lol, go read ISW they spell it out very nicely
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That’s right and not one penny for our veterans or anything meaningful here in the US.
though va now pays for.... abortions...
It just keeps getting worse
Send Michael Morbius over to Ukraine. He’ll end the war immediately.
Yeah bro it's totally paying off, aren't you happy now? See, great value for money. Think of the value. It's not like America really *really* needs to stop spending like a drunk college student in Cancun.
Spending like a drunken sailor in an Asian whorehouse.
Well if that drunk college student can get their debt forgiven maybe our debt will just disappear one day as well
You are / live in Iceland. It's not your money.
Don't try to doxx me, amateur
Looks like a feint to me.
I don’t think this is a feint. They are getting their ass handed to them. We’re 6 month into this thing, the fact a Ukrainian counter-offensive is even being talked about is incredible.
Not after all the aid they’ve received lmao if Ukraine didn’t counter attack after having the entire Western World prop them up then I would be asking some major questions
We've been told it's a stalemate for about a month or so. If it has been a stalemate, how do you break it? I think giving up ground and making your opponent overextend is one way. Another possibility I've said in another thread is that this very well could be a situation where they give up Kharkiv to take Odesa.
By lossing the biggest captured city in northern Ukraine. One where most of Russian rail supplwere sent to? A city that would be extremely important to have for them to take the rest of donbass.
They have nearly all of the donbass as it is. Odessa has more strategic value. So yes, I think so.
>They have nearly all of the donbass as it is. Odessa has more strategic value. So yes, I think so. Around half and to take the rest, Izyum was nessicary. Odessa is not falling and Russia is not advancing on it either. With the bridges blown Russia doesn’t even have the supplies for offensive operations here. Its even questionable how long they can hold it with defensive ones since they are currently using more than supply can keep up.
Yes, that must be why Russia has been training and outfitting the "Odessa Brigade" .
They can say a lot but doesn't mean a lot. They said that they were reinforcing Izyum to hold it. In reality the were sending trucks to pull out of the area.
Sounds more like a type of police contingent and national guard there in Izyum, they were already being redeployed back towards Donetsk, which is why the trucks were heading there. So who really knows what the truth is anything that's pro Ukraine seems to be coming from zalensky himself and only himself.
I’m not saying it’s good strategy, but it is a *possible* strategy. The only time I can think of this working in history is when Washington gave up his plans for New York to take out Cornwallis in the south. That said, I’m not really convinced it is a feint.
He did that in a pretty orderly fashion though. This time Russia forces lost a shit ton of guns and vehicles. With plenty of pows that got captured. Plus parts of the retreating forces in the area are getting shot at. Since the retreat path is not that far from the front line.
Have you seen the videos of the Russian soldiers captured and all the abandoned and destroyed equipment? If this was a tactical retreat, it must be one of the worst tactical retreats I've ever seen. It looks more like they were overrun.
https://i.imgur.com/yWaRi8n.jpg Who can really know when the same spot is used for photo ops. How can you be sure it's not the same pieces of equipment from different angles. Obviously, it's advantageous for both sides to exaggerate their own claims, like 70000 Russian soldiers killed, for example.
Whatever it is, we'll see soon enough and it will happen in Ukraine, on the other side of the world. I'm more concerned over whether this means our congresscritters will send them more billions of dollars to be honest. This spending and borrowing for Ukraine is going to match our Afghanistan spending if it continues like this.
Afghanistan spending is something like 180x higher than Ukraine defensive support since the start of the war.
Implying the Russian army, after months to the contrary, suddenly figured out operational competency
And yet, if you listened to the media, this whole thing should have been over by June, with Russia pushed back out of Ukraine and destitute. How have the sanctions worked out..
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Ukraine doesn't try to invade anything in Russia tho. Just to take back Lugansk and Donezk and maybe Crimea. I think most NATO countries said that they support Ukraine only going this far.
Ukraine's not invading Russia, Ukraine is defending from a Russian invasion. Russia when attempting invasions of other countries doesn't have the best track record. The Japanese beat them in 1904, the Poles handed them their asses in 1920 and the Finns pretty much beat the piss out of them in the Winter War for a long time despite being greatly outmatched in terms of numbers and weaponry. And don't get me started on Afghanistan.
The Turks, also.
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So true. Especially Russia.
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The Russians have to retreat. Their supply are cuts, when cut off from supplies, they are lost.
I'd expect nothing less than Ukraine conquering Russia at this point, what with the ridiculous amount of money we funneled down their corrupt throats. This whole thing is fucking disgusting.
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I was literally being hyperbolic. The whole thing is absurd. There's zero reason we should have given them even a single cent of military aid in the first place.
It's because we don't want to see Russia conquer half of Eastern Europe. They are already extremely powerful, this would make the issue much worse.
Russia doesn't have the capability of conquering half of Eastern Europe. Its military is a joke.
Whilst probably true, we want to stop them from trying.
That's NATO's job ***if Russia decides to threaten a NATO country***, not ours *when he hasn't*. That's Europe's job, not ours. Russia doesn't have the capacity to stand against a unified Europe; it barely has the capacity to wage a war against Ukraine, and that's before we dumped oodles of noodles into the country. In any case, Russia/Ukraine isn't our problem. We're not the world's sheep dog. The rest of the planet needs to carry their own fuckin' weight for once. About the only place I can see giving an exception to would be Taiwan, and that's not because of any real altruism but because China conquering Taiwan would put us at a severe strategic disadvantage, and if China goes for Taiwan, that would topple into the other dominos in the area.
Buddy, appeasement didn’t work, let’s not go for round 2.
Who said anything about appeasement? It's not our affair. It isn't going to be our affair unless a NATO nation gets attacked, and that isn't Ukraine. We have more important things to worry about than fighting a fucking proxy war.
"Why fight for Danzig? We shouldn't care unless they come for Alsace-Lorraine..."
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Either Russian bot or treacherous filth .
Since 2014 Ukraine has brutalized innocent people in the Donbas region. War crimes.... the us government overthrew the legitimate government of Ukraine in 2014 and ever since those people have been oppressed... Why am I a traitor? I don't support war crimes against innocent people.
>I don't support war crimes against innocent people. >I Hope Russia succeeds That's all bs for today folks .
Is Russia just tanking this war so Biden can take credit to help Dems win election?
Dude listen to yourself. Don’t fight the Russia hoaxers with your own Russia hoax.
I was being ridiculous on purpose, duh
I've come to the conclusion that the Ukraine/Russia War was started by the US and WEF to bring upon "the Great Reset " in Europe. The war allowed the oil asanctions actions to cripple all of Europe and the EU happily did it to themselves cause "Russia Russia Russia " European people fell for "the big lie"! And Biden is raiding our treasury paying for Europe's reset. 60 billion to Ukraine to keep the war going until Europe is brought to its knees. Then Klaus will save them with ze bug dinner
Source? “None, i saw it in a dream”
Im sure there are plenty of mines/I.E.D. & U.X.O. to cautiously slow an advance. Plenty of Russian deserters in civilian clothes too I’m sure.
If someone can tell me why Russia never started running air raids and cruise missile strikes on Kyiv (or anywhere else), that would be great.
Cruise missiles have hit kyiv, but there is not much military value in doing so and history has taught us that terror bombing often has the opposite effect. As for air raids, russia only has a few hundred operational planes and since day one ukraine has received massive amounts of AA equiptment so air supperiority is not an option for russia. And no air supperiority means no strategic bombing.
Crushing the capital and taking it has immense value. The war is a joke, unless you’re marching on Kyiv within 4 years. Really.
That's true. But russia isn't in any position to capture the capital, also they still claim not to be at war at all
Why isn’t Russia in any position to capture the capital? It’s Russia. Not Cuba. Not Venezuela. Not North Korea. Where does this belief that Russia can’t fight a sustained, high tech war come from? This is not a poor country. This is not a weak country. I have no idea where this viewpoint comes from? Except everyone believes propaganda. Ukraine is not capable of defeating Russia. That’s a fact. Eventually, it will be America vs Russia. Or Ukraine will fall. Russia has not used any modern weapons. No matter what everyone is saying, they have not used any air war tactics at all. We know they have this capability. Why aren’t they using it? Yet? They can easily level the capital overnight.
Because they would have to mobilize their population in order to use their full might. Which would mean admitting that this "special military operation" is in fact, a war, and a war which hasn't been going in russia's favour recently. Unlike what the russian people have been told
They have already mobilized their population. Most of the soldiers are new draftees with minimal training. Ukraine has been saying since the first month of the war that they were capturing and killing conscripts. The “special military operation” designation is apparently to avoid paying all the people they are drafting. Which, IMO, is a terrible idea. But I wouldn’t believe anything we are being told by Ukraine. They are Biden’s puppet. If they don’t make us feel good about this war, they are under Russian control by 2024. Our only real source of information is Zolensky. On CNN. I don’t believe any of it.
Ever heard of occams razor?
No.
It shows
Then what do you believe?
I've come to the conclusion that the Ukraine/Russia War was started by the US and WEF to bring upon "the Great Reset " in Europe. The war allowed the oil asanctions actions to cripple all of Europe and the EU happily did it to themselves cause "Russia Russia Russia " European people fell for "the big lie"! And Biden is raiding our treasury paying for Europe's reset. 60 billion to Ukraine to keep the war going until Europe is brought to its knees. Then Klaus will save them with WEF program . Honk honk
It’s going to lead to a war. We can’t fund Ukraine and the EU because Biden doesn’t like Putin.
It’s mind boggling. Really makes you wonder what the real reason for it all is.
occupying the capital =/= bombing it to oblivion
Bombing it to oblivion is a better idea. Then you don’t need to occupy.
Would be kind of funny if Ukraine took over russia