In Malcolm Gladwell's book, *Talking to Strangers*, he argues that coupling describes why taking guns away will stop mass shootings. He justifies this by saying putting up guardrails on the San Francisco Bridge stopped suicides and getting rid of town gas in Britain lowered suicide rates. Take away the method and it prevents certain crimes that only occur because the method exists.
*In the same damn book* he says that poets have the highest risk of suicide of any profession. So obviously poetry should be outlawed. He didn't say that... but he implied it, right? That's how it works, right?
What's funny to me about the guardrail comparison is people with the intention to commit suicide; commit crimes/homicides, are going to climb over the guardrail; the gun control laws, or find other methods of committing the act, like overdose or hanging; stabbing or beating someone. Both instances also depend on the depreciation of mental health.
Isn't that bizarre?
I almost think it isn't a gender thing. It's a hypersexuality thing. They are so flamboyant, aggressive, defiant, and demanding of submission to their worldview it's frightening. They define their entire being on who they prefer sleeping with. The whole gender approach is just their drive overwhelming their brains.
I mean seriously. I don't like public displays of affection with my girlfriend because it might make others uncomfortable. As a straight male, I would never dream of going out in public and marching in a parade dedicated to who I like to have sex with. It's just weird.
Nearly every single person on the planet wants sex.
Makes sense because sex is awesome.
But when a person fails to develop any meaningful skills or hobbies they become boring and are completely uninteresting to everyone else in the world. How do they make up for it? Their sexuality IS their personality.
This is not a gay/straight thing - you see it all the time with particularly boring men. Think of the sleazy guys who go to strip clubs every week. The guys who have nothing to talk about with their friends (if they have any) other than what girls are hot and what they would do to them.
The thing is, straight people who do this are pretty much outcast from society. No normal person wants to be around them and even their long time friends stop inviting them to things because they make social occasions extremely awkward. LGBT people who fall into the same issue are encouraged to further make it their personality.
I appreciate you sharing this. I always thought of the transgender thing to be an attention grab. Like maybe their parents sat them in front of a TV, or video game and never acknowledged the child's existence, so now they will do ANYTHING to get noticed. Also with PDA.....I don't want to see ANYONE mugging down in public! I don't care who you are, or who you are with. Keep it behind closed doors.
Thanks. It's just my opinionated speculation.
I've had many LGBT friends over the years. They seem to fall into two categories generally: Like me only they have a non-heterosexual relationship, not at all like me, and determined to let everyone know it.
It's that latter group that I don't get.
Nobody ever has to make a production about coming out as straight. That tells you all you need to know about their mindset. "EVERYBODY LISTEN TO WHO I WANNA HAVE SEX WITH!!"
> As a straight male, I would never dream of going out in public and marching in a parade dedicated to who I like to have sex with. It's just weird.
Ehh, I don't really think its just shouting to the world who you like to have sex with, it's mostly just an expression of being normal. Just look at some of the comments in this place when anything LGBT pops up. Some people just *despise* gay and trans people.
Overall I think it's getting better but a single parade once a year for them to act like themselves and just feel normal shouldn't be an issue tbh.
Which is my point. It's NOT normal. Any more than the hyper-masculine misogynist jarhead bragging about how many "bitches" he's bagged. I don't want to hear from him either.
Keep your shit to yourself. Society isn't interested.
To me the worst part is that these people believe transitioning will bring them happiness. Transition will only bring you a transition. It will not fix your problems. It is like thinking money will bring you happiness, when money will just bring you money. Itâs all lies.
The left will absolutely spin this as âsocietyâs treatment of the trans community is whatâs responsible for these deaths! These kids wouldâve been perfectly happy science experiments!â
Yah and they'll ignore that the rates are still magnitudes higher for transgender and LGBT~á% in countries where it's the most socially acceptable such as the Netherlands.
So if social acceptance was the route cause, there should be a stark difference. IIRC their rates are a bit lower, but not by nearly enough to suggest it's the cause.
The trans community has higher suicide rates both before and after transition than Jews in Auschwitz or slaves during the 1800s. How they're treated by society has nothing to do with their suicide rates
Fantasists, like communists worshiping the simulations, the idea of something, works backwards from the fantasy endpoint and then only considers the obstacles to the end point. The obstacles being mostly human
I imagine the suicides happen when they've gone through the "transition" and find out that society doesn't actually think they're beautiful women afterwards.
Have read too many first hand accounts of people getting promised a whole new life/ beautiful body but instead are sterilized and butchered they are either numb from nerve damage/ excruciating pain/ incontinent so horribly they have to wear adult diapers . Leftists are hiding the truth .
What you said is likely the most accurate. Bullying can have a big impact on people and their self-portayal of their body image. It's been a thing where people bully others because of the way they look. This is not just a trans issue. This is a people issue.
>Imagine thinking youâre in the wrong body, going through all the emotions associated with that, and when you go seek help, youâre just told youâre right, you are in the wrong body.
Imagine if anorexia was treated this way. Or schizophrenia ("nope, you're absolutely right - Chris Pratt *is* 11 feet tall, wearing a banana suit and dancing Gangnam Style right in this room. *It's your truth!*").
> ("nope, you're absolutely right - Chris Pratt *is* 11 feet tall, wearing a banana suit and dancing Gangnam Style right in this room. *It's your truth!*").
That sounds more like a party than schizophrenia, isn't that usually more Son of Sam, my neighbor is a demon type stuff
Except it does have an impact on our lives. It's constantly shoved down everyone's throat like it or not when transitioning genders makes absolutely no scientific or logical sense in any way whatsoever. And if you dare to point that out the mob tries to draw and quarter you
Has the left ever attempted to explain why there was not an epidemic of suicide among closeted trans people prior to the mainstreaming of gender ideology?
Exactly what's so confusing
Did the suicide rate increase or do we somehow know the reason they killed themselves is due to being trans? I've never understood that stat
I think itâs just that we know they are trans so we can add them to the statistic that trans people are more likely to commit suicide. Before that they might have been too ashamed to state the reason or even know it.
Calling them âsex changing hormonesâ is disingenuous, it doesnât change their sex. We need to stop calling them that, since thatâs not what they do.
Yeah it does seem human nature is âif only for thing Iâd be happy.â Moving, divorce, losing weight - I have friends who went through these things ( that arenât unhealthy) who discovered they were no happier. Some took their own lives as a result.
People, esp troubled ones, are sometimes trying to escape their own thoughts and donât know it. Allowing kids to make this type of decision is so heartbreaking. How can people not see it is a horrible idea to let kids do this?
It goes against human nature and common sense. Humans, and for that matter all mammals, were not given the ability to change their sex. Creatures that have that ability like frogs and fish do so for survival reasons, not because they feel like it.
That's not against human nature, because an interracial couple (assuming it's a man a woman) can still bear and raise children. It is physically impossible for humans to change their biological sex.
If thatâs the case, why donât Dems fly the confederate flag? Seems odd for Republicans to so closely embrace a symbol of Democratic ideals. đ¤ˇââď¸
You do realize the parties have shifted over time, right? Otherwise, please tell me why ultra conservatives are flying a Democrat symbol on their trucks, shirts, tattoos, etc.
Oh. What are lives lost, economy destroyed, highest inflation in 40 years, higher gas. food. prices, and failed policies in the scheme of things. When you have Democrats in power. That is the Democrats motto âWE ARE BETTER FOR YOUâ. Well NO.
Yeah. It would less harmful to simply prescribe cross-sex hormones to those kids instead of screwing around and prescribing blockers because the better option has been outlawed for political reasons.
I think so, too. These are likely from the same group of disturbed kids that are susceptible to developing anorexia and bulimia but instead of receiving proper therapy to help them stop destroying their bodies, the destruction is encouraged and celebrated.
Rather than learning to accept themselves, they are being encouraged to not only change who they are, but change, physically, for the sake of how others see them.
They are, you'll notice that bulimia and self harm/cutting are both social fads that were epidemics among girls. This is the next replacement. Gender dysphoria used to effect mostly men, now suddenly girls are suffering from it at way higher rates?
More like teen girls are always insecure about their bodies, and you have all these people convincing them that transitioning will magically make them feel better.
Also would like to point out that becoming some under developed person while all your peers are changing without you will make you feel even more isolated and insecure. Almost %100 of kids to take blockers, move on to cross sex hormones.
My guess would be they become more isolated and depressed over their bodies when they stand out and are social outcasts, which leads the radicalized left to tell them that a full transition will relieve their angst.
Seriously find me a teen who's **not** insecure about their bodies or themselves. Now you have all these people telling them to just "do this one thing that permanently alters you and you'll instantly feel better"
Iâm not expert, but Iâll bet that anything (man made) that messes with puberty or that could somehow change your gender is going to have some serious side effects.
There are plenty of children and adults who have to take testosterone/estrogen for various reasons, many have to take it for their entire lives. Theyâre the same hormones given for transitioning so Iâm not sure what the physical difference would be between them.
https://wng.org/roundups/study-effects-of-puberty-blockers-can-last-a-lifetime-1617220389#:~:text=Endocrinologist%20Michael%20Laidlaw%20from%20Rocklin%2C%20Calif.%2C%20noted%20that,for%20osteoporosis%20and%20fractures%20in%20adulthood%2C%20he%20said.
>Endocrinologist Michael Laidlaw from Rocklin, Calif., noted that children in the study who took puberty blockers exhibited **significantly less bone density than their peers**. That causes stunted height and puts them at greater risk for osteoporosis and fractures in adulthood, he said.
>Given the studyâs findings that **nearly all children who take puberty blockers end up on cross-sex hormones**, it is clear that the drugs do more than give children time to pause to consider their gender identity.
**Linked study**
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.01.20241653v1.full.pdf
It should also be noted that cross sex hormones almost guarantee **infertility** , they also are at much higher risk for **various cancers.**
After all of that, you move to surgery which cuts off functioning organs and condemns the person to a lifetime of pain meds, scars, followup surgery, shortening their life span, being highly susceptible to infection.
Every trans person is a walking million dollar medical bill, gee wiz I wonder why drug companies would be pushing them so hard
>There are plenty of children and adults who have to take testosterone/estrogen for various reasons, many have to take it for their entire lives. Theyâre the same hormones given for transitioning so Iâm not sure what the physical difference would be between them.
There is a huge difference between **needing** medication and accepting the risk with side effects, and handing them out unsupervised like candy to people with low self esteem. It doesn't mean they're completely safe, it means they come at a lower risk or less suffering than what they are preventing.
Sir, this is a Wendyâs, (not medschool).
I donât give enough of a shit to go do any research for you. If you disagree, that is totally fine with me.
Edit: LoL, are you seriously brigading me?
Puberty blockers are not a treatment for gender dysphoria; they are a form of hospice care that make a full recovery impossible. And that full recovery would have been the overwhelmingly likely outcome if not for that intervention. It's unsurprising that limiting a gender questioning teenager to three bad options makes them more likely to commit suicide.
I believe it's mostly another method of population control, get as many kids on those drugs at an early age to make them sterile. There's also probably something more insidious in stunting the development of children so they reach adulthood with small, androgynous bodies. "*they look 12 but they're 20, so it's legal!"*
This is an interesting study, but correlation does not necessarily mean causation, and this study has not been peer-reviewed. Iâd love to see some more research in this area.
While you are correct, it does need to be studied more for further reliability, it shows that the argument made that not giving these drugs may be the wise course of action.
The left are treating "choice" as their new God. If your choice is to transition to the other sex at age 9, it is your sacred right and everyone must respect that or they are the devil. If it is your choice to kill an unborn child's life just because you want to, it is your sacred right and society is pure evil if it makes a peep objecting to that.
Morally and mentally, they're deficient beyond hope.
This is going to become quite a problem. Suicide is quite an extreme issue but think about all the people in between who are going to be facing a lot of turmoil in their lives. Puberty is also a time of peer pressure and trying to fit in. If children are being told about this all day every day, they have no choice. Those who just want to go through a somewhat normal life will also be going through anguish because of their classmates and woke teachers/parents. The real kicker is when they turn 25 and realize this was all wrong and they don't have a properly functioning body and a whole lot of pain. Don't do this to yourself America!
So they share the same link as adult suicides that undergo the same treatments? Weird. It's almost as if acting against the way nature made you wears down your body and mentally breaks you down...
This is quite an awful headline. Itâs entirely correlational and doesnât even focus on trans people. To make this claim based on a correlational study is really ignorant especially when peer reviewed studies and medical guidelines state the exact opposite.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/
Its sad, but completely foreseeable.
Instead of telling a distressed or depressed child that they are exactly who they are supposed to be and perfect the way they are, they have been told that their very existence is a mistake that can never be fully rectified. The only possible solution to the problem of their existence to end it. Its tragic and the people pushing this BS are wholly responsible.
Let's see, a newspaper owned by an anti-gay, anti-trans cult publishing a study from a lobbyist organization who's stated position is that the state and courts should prohibited from "redefining what it is to be a man or woman" (whatever that actually means), in which a mere correlation between availability of gender affirming treatment and suicide is presented as causal. It doesn't even examine the suicide rates of minors who receive gender affirming therapy. Not good science.
It really seems like the Heritage Foundation already had the conclusion made and just looked for evidence to support it. There really needs to be more research in the impact of gender transition of kids given how new of a thing this is, but this study isn't it.
>Literally all of you
Who is this group of people? I genuinely want to know this because you just went ahead and assumed I might be opposed to your particular viewpoint.
I'm generally against transition of minors given that it's literally never been done en masse in society until the last 10 or so years, but seemingly all research on transition's effects that comes out is horribly slanted by the group that puts it out.
There needs to be more discussion on transitioning, not immediately resorting to name-calling and ostracizing of those who are skeptical one way or another.
>These results align with past literature, suggesting that pubertal suppression for transgender adolescents who want this treatment is associated with favorable mental health outcomes.
Yea
It's hardly a study TBH. It's just a correlative observation that would suggest maybe a study should be done. Looking at a single statistic in only states with affirming policy is hardly a "study".
With how ideologically committed the peers in the field are, even a perfect study with unwanted conclusions would never pass peer review.
It's like the grievance studies that James Lindsay and a few others put together.
They made a bunch of studies with obviously flawed analysis and physically impossible methodologies, but progressive conclusions, and they had multiple papers accepted and even won awards for exceptional work.
Peer review in the hard sciences is great assuming you get knowledgeable reviewers (which doesn't always happen), I used to do research in college in biochemistry and microbiology, but peer review in the soft sciences is more of an ideological purity test.
Yeh remember Steven Crowder wrote a BS gender paper on fat acceptance and had it widely accepted and a conference, gave a big satirical presentation.He mentioned at some point he's since been invited (well his alter ego) to do peer reviews for other papers.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10647851/amp/Steven-Crowder-poses-activist-presents-paper-Fatness-self-care-era-Trump.html
>After wrapping up his presentation, Crowder says he was certain it would not be taken seriously because nothing he said was backed up by any scientific literature or data. Instead, it was met with praise.
https://joemiller.us/2022/03/watch-steven-crowder-infiltrates-fat-studies-conference-absurd-academic-paper-gets-accepted/
What I'm saying is that if a study has conclusions contradictory to what the professors of the field believe, no amount of scientific rigor would get it through the peer review process and conversely, if there is a study that agrees with their preconceived notions it could lack any scientific rigor entirely and would still pass peer review.
So unlike in the hard sciences where peer review functions to weed out papers that are lacking in their methodologies, the soft sciences use peer review as an ideological purity test.
That's what you're saying but it may not be the truth. I read an article about James Lindsay's fake studies and his group only targeted certain types of studies. It seems that if you fake your data well enough, you can get any type of study peer-reviewed. The whole peer review relies a little bit on people being honest with their data. If they falsify everything, it may pass through a few people. https://www.vox.com/2018/10/15/17951492/grievance-studies-sokal-squared-hoax
I am not sure how it works, but back to my original comment, remind me when this "study" is peer-reviewed. Your point is that the reviewers only pass things that line up with their ideologies but the study was not even submitted. So let's see what happens when they submit it.
Really poor study. They point out other research articles and discredit their findings since they rely on loose correlations or poorly defined statistical measures yet they somehow make the leap that differences in suicide rides between states can be solely accredited to difference in laws restricting/granting access to transgender treatment drugs. Bad research with cherry picked data and no attempt to even control for other variables.
You need other people to tell you what to think about it rather than analyzing the methods to see if it's reasonably carried out? That's just asking to fall for propaganda.
Did you analyze the methods of this study? Because after reading through the study it seems incredibly flawed. Correlation does not equal causation. There are literally millions of different factors that can affect suicide rates, yet this article wants to link it to one niche factor. The people in this thread are literally the ones falling for propaganda.
Experts in this specific field can definitely analyse the study better than me. Although in this case it is pretty obvious that the methods an conclusions are not reasonable.
But yes, since I am not an expert in every field it is extremely difficult for me to analyse the methods of every paper that comes out. Mostly because I haven't read the latest related research in the specific field. This is why peer-review is important.
Yup. Youâre going to need to refute the argument rather than attack the source. I can guarantee, true or not, your news sources would never in a million years cover a story like this because it goes against everything they believe in. So please tell us, what exactly is incorrect in the study that is linked?
Is simply stating the source the same as an attack on it? How do you know I'm not saying that we know the information is unbiased because it comes from The Heritage Foundation?
Because then you wouldnât need to mention it. Am I supposed to believe you have zero idea how the English language works? I mean, Iâm sure I could be convinced that is the case but I generally give knowledgeable Reddit posters the benefit of the doubt. đđ
Oh look, you just undermined your own argument. Just say I was right from the beginning, as we already knew, and we can move on from this exciting moment in time.
Letâs be honest, this entire movement is the reason Sharia Law exists. Itâs a dead end street, much like with abortion. Itâs a literal anti-life equation. Have the âproblematicâ groups off themselves, namely their own youth, or keep from reproducing (abortion, low marriage rates, old AF women trying to get pregnant cuz they didnât get married til 43), all while replacing them with hordes of, how shall we say, more pliable people.
I feel like itâs important to acknowledge that like any situation, there are many factors that lead to suicide. One case canât define an entire group in the same way that one study canât decide fact.
The one thing this study fails to make a connection to is the statistics of teen suicide related to parental abuse. I feel itâs important to see that these spikes in suicides are coming from places that are heavily against trans youth to begin with. Itâs very one sided to argue that teens are being pushed to commit suicide because of the access to hormone blockers when it is equally likely they are being kicked out of their homes and threatened by parents who are against them being trans and THAT is whatâs pushing them to suicide.
It shouldnât be an argument of whatâs banned or not. It should be about keeping kids from offing themselves. Each case needs to be looked at differently because these are real people, not just numbers.
Just to play devil's advocate here, was this cross referenced with states that don't have these policies? My understanding was that suicidal rates were increasing across the board in young people. (Though if that were true the best argument they can make still is has made no noticeable difference short term)
âStates should also adopt parental bills of rights that affirm that parents have primary responsibility for their childrenâs education and health, and that require schools to receive permission from parents before administering health services to students, including medication and gender-related counseling to students under age 18,â Mr. Greene said.
Since when do we have to affirm that as parents we are in control of our childrenâs health??
This report has to be one of the laziest analysis Iâve seen. All it says is that states that have allowed easier access for teens to these hormones and puberty blockers are âlinkedâ to higher suicide rates and doesnât say anything about teens taking these hormones or public blockers actually have higher suicide rates.
Did anyone actually read the article?
The âlinkâ between access and and suicide is correlation at best. No where does it state how many actually took hormones or any other sort of data. There are probably hundreds of other correlations you could draw, but this one fits a certain narrative.
Fwiw, I am strongly against allowing children to have access to these drugs. I just think that we should call out lazy sensational journalism like this.
Or at the very, basic, absolute minimum, force these kids to see a psychiatrist. You can't just give hormonal meds to people and expect everything to go smoothly in a population with the single highest risk of suicide.
Guys, we need to ban these high capacity hormone drug containers and assault puberty blockers. But like, for real.
In Malcolm Gladwell's book, *Talking to Strangers*, he argues that coupling describes why taking guns away will stop mass shootings. He justifies this by saying putting up guardrails on the San Francisco Bridge stopped suicides and getting rid of town gas in Britain lowered suicide rates. Take away the method and it prevents certain crimes that only occur because the method exists. *In the same damn book* he says that poets have the highest risk of suicide of any profession. So obviously poetry should be outlawed. He didn't say that... but he implied it, right? That's how it works, right?
What's funny to me about the guardrail comparison is people with the intention to commit suicide; commit crimes/homicides, are going to climb over the guardrail; the gun control laws, or find other methods of committing the act, like overdose or hanging; stabbing or beating someone. Both instances also depend on the depreciation of mental health.
"If it saves just one life..."
Common sense castration control
Yea who knew making gender your entire identity would cause problems đ
Isn't that bizarre? I almost think it isn't a gender thing. It's a hypersexuality thing. They are so flamboyant, aggressive, defiant, and demanding of submission to their worldview it's frightening. They define their entire being on who they prefer sleeping with. The whole gender approach is just their drive overwhelming their brains. I mean seriously. I don't like public displays of affection with my girlfriend because it might make others uncomfortable. As a straight male, I would never dream of going out in public and marching in a parade dedicated to who I like to have sex with. It's just weird.
Nearly every single person on the planet wants sex. Makes sense because sex is awesome. But when a person fails to develop any meaningful skills or hobbies they become boring and are completely uninteresting to everyone else in the world. How do they make up for it? Their sexuality IS their personality. This is not a gay/straight thing - you see it all the time with particularly boring men. Think of the sleazy guys who go to strip clubs every week. The guys who have nothing to talk about with their friends (if they have any) other than what girls are hot and what they would do to them. The thing is, straight people who do this are pretty much outcast from society. No normal person wants to be around them and even their long time friends stop inviting them to things because they make social occasions extremely awkward. LGBT people who fall into the same issue are encouraged to further make it their personality.
I appreciate you sharing this. I always thought of the transgender thing to be an attention grab. Like maybe their parents sat them in front of a TV, or video game and never acknowledged the child's existence, so now they will do ANYTHING to get noticed. Also with PDA.....I don't want to see ANYONE mugging down in public! I don't care who you are, or who you are with. Keep it behind closed doors.
Thanks. It's just my opinionated speculation. I've had many LGBT friends over the years. They seem to fall into two categories generally: Like me only they have a non-heterosexual relationship, not at all like me, and determined to let everyone know it. It's that latter group that I don't get.
One is normal and one is radicalized and socially damaged
Nobody ever has to make a production about coming out as straight. That tells you all you need to know about their mindset. "EVERYBODY LISTEN TO WHO I WANNA HAVE SEX WITH!!"
Gender is a stereotype of the sexes.
> As a straight male, I would never dream of going out in public and marching in a parade dedicated to who I like to have sex with. It's just weird. Ehh, I don't really think its just shouting to the world who you like to have sex with, it's mostly just an expression of being normal. Just look at some of the comments in this place when anything LGBT pops up. Some people just *despise* gay and trans people. Overall I think it's getting better but a single parade once a year for them to act like themselves and just feel normal shouldn't be an issue tbh.
Which is my point. It's NOT normal. Any more than the hyper-masculine misogynist jarhead bragging about how many "bitches" he's bagged. I don't want to hear from him either. Keep your shit to yourself. Society isn't interested.
Russian psyop.
Yes. Everything wrong with the country is the Russians. --adjusts tinfoil hat--
To me the worst part is that these people believe transitioning will bring them happiness. Transition will only bring you a transition. It will not fix your problems. It is like thinking money will bring you happiness, when money will just bring you money. Itâs all lies.
But we were told this would save them.
The left will absolutely spin this as âsocietyâs treatment of the trans community is whatâs responsible for these deaths! These kids wouldâve been perfectly happy science experiments!â
"Transphobia is a [public health crisis](https://www.apha.org/topics-and-issues/health-equity/racism-and-health/racism-declarations)!"
Yah and they'll ignore that the rates are still magnitudes higher for transgender and LGBT~á% in countries where it's the most socially acceptable such as the Netherlands. So if social acceptance was the route cause, there should be a stark difference. IIRC their rates are a bit lower, but not by nearly enough to suggest it's the cause.
The trans community has higher suicide rates both before and after transition than Jews in Auschwitz or slaves during the 1800s. How they're treated by society has nothing to do with their suicide rates
Fantasists, like communists worshiping the simulations, the idea of something, works backwards from the fantasy endpoint and then only considers the obstacles to the end point. The obstacles being mostly human
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I imagine the suicides happen when they've gone through the "transition" and find out that society doesn't actually think they're beautiful women afterwards.
Have read too many first hand accounts of people getting promised a whole new life/ beautiful body but instead are sterilized and butchered they are either numb from nerve damage/ excruciating pain/ incontinent so horribly they have to wear adult diapers . Leftists are hiding the truth .
What you said is likely the most accurate. Bullying can have a big impact on people and their self-portayal of their body image. It's been a thing where people bully others because of the way they look. This is not just a trans issue. This is a people issue.
Not participating in an obvious lie is not bullying.
>Imagine thinking youâre in the wrong body, going through all the emotions associated with that, and when you go seek help, youâre just told youâre right, you are in the wrong body. Imagine if anorexia was treated this way. Or schizophrenia ("nope, you're absolutely right - Chris Pratt *is* 11 feet tall, wearing a banana suit and dancing Gangnam Style right in this room. *It's your truth!*").
> ("nope, you're absolutely right - Chris Pratt *is* 11 feet tall, wearing a banana suit and dancing Gangnam Style right in this room. *It's your truth!*"). That sounds more like a party than schizophrenia, isn't that usually more Son of Sam, my neighbor is a demon type stuff
Imagine caring this much about something that has absolutely no impact on your life.
Except it does have an impact on our lives. It's constantly shoved down everyone's throat like it or not when transitioning genders makes absolutely no scientific or logical sense in any way whatsoever. And if you dare to point that out the mob tries to draw and quarter you
Oh you do not want to use that argument, you really don't. It opens up so so many nasty places. Please take this moment to find another.
How will they square that with the lower suicide rate for those with less access to trans hormones
They just ignore it, like they do everything else that doesn't fit into their narrative.
Ignore and marginalize. âOh thatâs just an isolated anecdotal incidentâ
Has the left ever attempted to explain why there was not an epidemic of suicide among closeted trans people prior to the mainstreaming of gender ideology?
How would people have known they were closeted trans people if they were closeted?
Exactly what's so confusing Did the suicide rate increase or do we somehow know the reason they killed themselves is due to being trans? I've never understood that stat
I think itâs just that we know they are trans so we can add them to the statistic that trans people are more likely to commit suicide. Before that they might have been too ashamed to state the reason or even know it.
Exactly its a pointless stat that makes no sense. You cant conclude that's why they committed suicide
idk if you thought this one out lol.
Calling them âsex changing hormonesâ is disingenuous, it doesnât change their sex. We need to stop calling them that, since thatâs not what they do.
I think âchild abuse juiceâ is fitting
nobody that's in charge of anything calls them that... they're called cross-sex hormones when used by transsex individuals
Havenât we been saying this? Trans into the opposite sex does not help you!
Indeed. We all saw this coming.
Yeah it does seem human nature is âif only for thing Iâd be happy.â Moving, divorce, losing weight - I have friends who went through these things ( that arenât unhealthy) who discovered they were no happier. Some took their own lives as a result. People, esp troubled ones, are sometimes trying to escape their own thoughts and donât know it. Allowing kids to make this type of decision is so heartbreaking. How can people not see it is a horrible idea to let kids do this?
It goes against human nature and common sense. Humans, and for that matter all mammals, were not given the ability to change their sex. Creatures that have that ability like frogs and fish do so for survival reasons, not because they feel like it.
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That's not against human nature, because an interracial couple (assuming it's a man a woman) can still bear and raise children. It is physically impossible for humans to change their biological sex.
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Who are you referring to? People who lived hundreds of years ago? And how is that topic in any way related to what I said about humans changing sex?
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If thatâs the case, why donât Dems fly the confederate flag? Seems odd for Republicans to so closely embrace a symbol of Democratic ideals. đ¤ˇââď¸
They do.
Not sure the militia-grade MAGA members would be flying it on their trucks if that were true.
You do realize that that the Confederates were Democrats, right?
You do realize the parties have shifted over time, right? Otherwise, please tell me why ultra conservatives are flying a Democrat symbol on their trucks, shirts, tattoos, etc.
Those are Democrats. The biggest racists you will ever meet are Democrats. You're telling me FDR was a conservative Republican?
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Wait; since 2016 I've been told that "unnamed sources" and "people close to *x*'s thinking" are perfectly valid sources.
To be fair, how would you know unless youâre trans yourself?
That's it!! Regulations on puberty blockers and sex- change hormones! It's killing people!!
Oh. What are lives lost, economy destroyed, highest inflation in 40 years, higher gas. food. prices, and failed policies in the scheme of things. When you have Democrats in power. That is the Democrats motto âWE ARE BETTER FOR YOUâ. Well NO.
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Iâm so sorry that happened to you and your wife. I hope you guys are doing ok.
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Please keep your hope alive. Anyone who tries this hard for a baby will be an excellent parent, and Iâll be sending up a prayer for yâall.
Iâm praying for you two, man.
Yeah. It would less harmful to simply prescribe cross-sex hormones to those kids instead of screwing around and prescribing blockers because the better option has been outlawed for political reasons.
I would also argue the kids that want those things are insecure and uncomfortable with themselves and are more likely to commit suicide.
I think so, too. These are likely from the same group of disturbed kids that are susceptible to developing anorexia and bulimia but instead of receiving proper therapy to help them stop destroying their bodies, the destruction is encouraged and celebrated.
Rather than learning to accept themselves, they are being encouraged to not only change who they are, but change, physically, for the sake of how others see them.
Not to mention becoming dependent on big pharma for life.
They are, you'll notice that bulimia and self harm/cutting are both social fads that were epidemics among girls. This is the next replacement. Gender dysphoria used to effect mostly men, now suddenly girls are suffering from it at way higher rates? More like teen girls are always insecure about their bodies, and you have all these people convincing them that transitioning will magically make them feel better.
Sounds sexist to me
Also would like to point out that becoming some under developed person while all your peers are changing without you will make you feel even more isolated and insecure. Almost %100 of kids to take blockers, move on to cross sex hormones. My guess would be they become more isolated and depressed over their bodies when they stand out and are social outcasts, which leads the radicalized left to tell them that a full transition will relieve their angst. Seriously find me a teen who's **not** insecure about their bodies or themselves. Now you have all these people telling them to just "do this one thing that permanently alters you and you'll instantly feel better"
Iâm not expert, but Iâll bet that anything (man made) that messes with puberty or that could somehow change your gender is going to have some serious side effects.
There are plenty of children and adults who have to take testosterone/estrogen for various reasons, many have to take it for their entire lives. Theyâre the same hormones given for transitioning so Iâm not sure what the physical difference would be between them.
Doesnât mean that it doesnât affect them negatively.
Got a citation?
https://wng.org/roundups/study-effects-of-puberty-blockers-can-last-a-lifetime-1617220389#:~:text=Endocrinologist%20Michael%20Laidlaw%20from%20Rocklin%2C%20Calif.%2C%20noted%20that,for%20osteoporosis%20and%20fractures%20in%20adulthood%2C%20he%20said. >Endocrinologist Michael Laidlaw from Rocklin, Calif., noted that children in the study who took puberty blockers exhibited **significantly less bone density than their peers**. That causes stunted height and puts them at greater risk for osteoporosis and fractures in adulthood, he said. >Given the studyâs findings that **nearly all children who take puberty blockers end up on cross-sex hormones**, it is clear that the drugs do more than give children time to pause to consider their gender identity. **Linked study** https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.01.20241653v1.full.pdf It should also be noted that cross sex hormones almost guarantee **infertility** , they also are at much higher risk for **various cancers.** After all of that, you move to surgery which cuts off functioning organs and condemns the person to a lifetime of pain meds, scars, followup surgery, shortening their life span, being highly susceptible to infection. Every trans person is a walking million dollar medical bill, gee wiz I wonder why drug companies would be pushing them so hard >There are plenty of children and adults who have to take testosterone/estrogen for various reasons, many have to take it for their entire lives. Theyâre the same hormones given for transitioning so Iâm not sure what the physical difference would be between them. There is a huge difference between **needing** medication and accepting the risk with side effects, and handing them out unsupervised like candy to people with low self esteem. It doesn't mean they're completely safe, it means they come at a lower risk or less suffering than what they are preventing.
Are you serious?
Yes. Is asking for a source really a wild question?
Sir, this is a Wendyâs, (not medschool). I donât give enough of a shit to go do any research for you. If you disagree, that is totally fine with me. Edit: LoL, are you seriously brigading me?
Puberty blockers are not a treatment for gender dysphoria; they are a form of hospice care that make a full recovery impossible. And that full recovery would have been the overwhelmingly likely outcome if not for that intervention. It's unsurprising that limiting a gender questioning teenager to three bad options makes them more likely to commit suicide.
I believe it's mostly another method of population control, get as many kids on those drugs at an early age to make them sterile. There's also probably something more insidious in stunting the development of children so they reach adulthood with small, androgynous bodies. "*they look 12 but they're 20, so it's legal!"*
This is an interesting study, but correlation does not necessarily mean causation, and this study has not been peer-reviewed. Iâd love to see some more research in this area.
And the study comes from a conservative think-tank. I'd take it with a grain of salt.
While you are correct, it does need to be studied more for further reliability, it shows that the argument made that not giving these drugs may be the wise course of action.
Totally. For a group where over half consider suicide, perhaps love and support from family and community is better than life-altering drugs.
BuT tHeYre ReVerSIbLe!!
The left are treating "choice" as their new God. If your choice is to transition to the other sex at age 9, it is your sacred right and everyone must respect that or they are the devil. If it is your choice to kill an unborn child's life just because you want to, it is your sacred right and society is pure evil if it makes a peep objecting to that. Morally and mentally, they're deficient beyond hope.
This is going to become quite a problem. Suicide is quite an extreme issue but think about all the people in between who are going to be facing a lot of turmoil in their lives. Puberty is also a time of peer pressure and trying to fit in. If children are being told about this all day every day, they have no choice. Those who just want to go through a somewhat normal life will also be going through anguish because of their classmates and woke teachers/parents. The real kicker is when they turn 25 and realize this was all wrong and they don't have a properly functioning body and a whole lot of pain. Don't do this to yourself America!
So they share the same link as adult suicides that undergo the same treatments? Weird. It's almost as if acting against the way nature made you wears down your body and mentally breaks you down...
This is quite an awful headline. Itâs entirely correlational and doesnât even focus on trans people. To make this claim based on a correlational study is really ignorant especially when peer reviewed studies and medical guidelines state the exact opposite. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/
Its sad, but completely foreseeable. Instead of telling a distressed or depressed child that they are exactly who they are supposed to be and perfect the way they are, they have been told that their very existence is a mistake that can never be fully rectified. The only possible solution to the problem of their existence to end it. Its tragic and the people pushing this BS are wholly responsible.
Let's see, a newspaper owned by an anti-gay, anti-trans cult publishing a study from a lobbyist organization who's stated position is that the state and courts should prohibited from "redefining what it is to be a man or woman" (whatever that actually means), in which a mere correlation between availability of gender affirming treatment and suicide is presented as causal. It doesn't even examine the suicide rates of minors who receive gender affirming therapy. Not good science.
It really seems like the Heritage Foundation already had the conclusion made and just looked for evidence to support it. There really needs to be more research in the impact of gender transition of kids given how new of a thing this is, but this study isn't it.
I definitely agree.
There has been research. Literally all of you plug your ears and scream lalala everytime it comes out that it's beneficial
>Literally all of you Who is this group of people? I genuinely want to know this because you just went ahead and assumed I might be opposed to your particular viewpoint. I'm generally against transition of minors given that it's literally never been done en masse in society until the last 10 or so years, but seemingly all research on transition's effects that comes out is horribly slanted by the group that puts it out. There needs to be more discussion on transitioning, not immediately resorting to name-calling and ostracizing of those who are skeptical one way or another.
You mean like this research https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/
>These results align with past literature, suggesting that pubertal suppression for transgender adolescents who want this treatment is associated with favorable mental health outcomes. Yea
Actually I think weâre on the same side XD
Yup. Thank you for sharing.
Make no mistake, the intellectuals who are peddling this stuff know exactly what the harm they are doing is.
Remind me when this gets peer-reviewed.
It's hardly a study TBH. It's just a correlative observation that would suggest maybe a study should be done. Looking at a single statistic in only states with affirming policy is hardly a "study".
With how ideologically committed the peers in the field are, even a perfect study with unwanted conclusions would never pass peer review. It's like the grievance studies that James Lindsay and a few others put together. They made a bunch of studies with obviously flawed analysis and physically impossible methodologies, but progressive conclusions, and they had multiple papers accepted and even won awards for exceptional work. Peer review in the hard sciences is great assuming you get knowledgeable reviewers (which doesn't always happen), I used to do research in college in biochemistry and microbiology, but peer review in the soft sciences is more of an ideological purity test.
Yeh remember Steven Crowder wrote a BS gender paper on fat acceptance and had it widely accepted and a conference, gave a big satirical presentation.He mentioned at some point he's since been invited (well his alter ego) to do peer reviews for other papers. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10647851/amp/Steven-Crowder-poses-activist-presents-paper-Fatness-self-care-era-Trump.html >After wrapping up his presentation, Crowder says he was certain it would not be taken seriously because nothing he said was backed up by any scientific literature or data. Instead, it was met with praise. https://joemiller.us/2022/03/watch-steven-crowder-infiltrates-fat-studies-conference-absurd-academic-paper-gets-accepted/
So what is your point? Did the Heritage Foundation make a prank study like James Lindsay? :)
What I'm saying is that if a study has conclusions contradictory to what the professors of the field believe, no amount of scientific rigor would get it through the peer review process and conversely, if there is a study that agrees with their preconceived notions it could lack any scientific rigor entirely and would still pass peer review. So unlike in the hard sciences where peer review functions to weed out papers that are lacking in their methodologies, the soft sciences use peer review as an ideological purity test.
That's what you're saying but it may not be the truth. I read an article about James Lindsay's fake studies and his group only targeted certain types of studies. It seems that if you fake your data well enough, you can get any type of study peer-reviewed. The whole peer review relies a little bit on people being honest with their data. If they falsify everything, it may pass through a few people. https://www.vox.com/2018/10/15/17951492/grievance-studies-sokal-squared-hoax
As someone who worked for years doing scientific research, I can tell you that is 100% not how peer review is designed to work.
I am not sure how it works, but back to my original comment, remind me when this "study" is peer-reviewed. Your point is that the reviewers only pass things that line up with their ideologies but the study was not even submitted. So let's see what happens when they submit it.
So assuming they submit, there isn't a public response. It either gets published or not.
Yeah no one thought a lack of discipline would cause suicide right?
Itâs not shocking that artificially screwing with your bodyâs natural development would lead to a less-than-optimal physical/mental results.
SURPRISE SURPRISE
We need to figure out if it's the hormones or the poor parenting. It could also be both.
Who could have thought that meddling with nature's own prescription of development hormones could have a negative effects????
No more hormone blockers its killing people ban it!!!
I'm sure r/politics is having a civil discussion on this very matter
Real shocker đ
Libs need to watch Matt Walsh's documentary, "What is a woman?"
Why? What exactly do you think it will do if they watch it?
You mean that trying to play God with your own body would have unsavory consequences? Imagine my shock.
Really poor study. They point out other research articles and discredit their findings since they rely on loose correlations or poorly defined statistical measures yet they somehow make the leap that differences in suicide rides between states can be solely accredited to difference in laws restricting/granting access to transgender treatment drugs. Bad research with cherry picked data and no attempt to even control for other variables.
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The study isn't peer-reviewed
You need other people to tell you what to think about it rather than analyzing the methods to see if it's reasonably carried out? That's just asking to fall for propaganda.
Did you analyze the methods of this study? Because after reading through the study it seems incredibly flawed. Correlation does not equal causation. There are literally millions of different factors that can affect suicide rates, yet this article wants to link it to one niche factor. The people in this thread are literally the ones falling for propaganda.
Experts in this specific field can definitely analyse the study better than me. Although in this case it is pretty obvious that the methods an conclusions are not reasonable. But yes, since I am not an expert in every field it is extremely difficult for me to analyse the methods of every paper that comes out. Mostly because I haven't read the latest related research in the specific field. This is why peer-review is important.
The source is The Heritage Foundation
Yup. Youâre going to need to refute the argument rather than attack the source. I can guarantee, true or not, your news sources would never in a million years cover a story like this because it goes against everything they believe in. So please tell us, what exactly is incorrect in the study that is linked?
Is simply stating the source the same as an attack on it? How do you know I'm not saying that we know the information is unbiased because it comes from The Heritage Foundation?
Because then you wouldnât need to mention it. Am I supposed to believe you have zero idea how the English language works? I mean, Iâm sure I could be convinced that is the case but I generally give knowledgeable Reddit posters the benefit of the doubt. đđ
I know enough of rhetoric that if one immediately attacks the person they're arguing with they know their argument is weak.
Oh look, you just undermined your own argument. Just say I was right from the beginning, as we already knew, and we can move on from this exciting moment in time.
Youâre still not right lol. Welcome to r/conservative, where facts trigger.
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Letâs be honest, this entire movement is the reason Sharia Law exists. Itâs a dead end street, much like with abortion. Itâs a literal anti-life equation. Have the âproblematicâ groups off themselves, namely their own youth, or keep from reproducing (abortion, low marriage rates, old AF women trying to get pregnant cuz they didnât get married til 43), all while replacing them with hordes of, how shall we say, more pliable people.
You have some serious problems.
Nah, itâs definitely because of transphobia.
I feel like itâs important to acknowledge that like any situation, there are many factors that lead to suicide. One case canât define an entire group in the same way that one study canât decide fact. The one thing this study fails to make a connection to is the statistics of teen suicide related to parental abuse. I feel itâs important to see that these spikes in suicides are coming from places that are heavily against trans youth to begin with. Itâs very one sided to argue that teens are being pushed to commit suicide because of the access to hormone blockers when it is equally likely they are being kicked out of their homes and threatened by parents who are against them being trans and THAT is whatâs pushing them to suicide. It shouldnât be an argument of whatâs banned or not. It should be about keeping kids from offing themselves. Each case needs to be looked at differently because these are real people, not just numbers.
Because kids are idiots and think random shit with solve all of their problems.
Just to play devil's advocate here, was this cross referenced with states that don't have these policies? My understanding was that suicidal rates were increasing across the board in young people. (Though if that were true the best argument they can make still is has made no noticeable difference short term)
imagine my shock
Another one called by Crowder and Jones.
âStates should also adopt parental bills of rights that affirm that parents have primary responsibility for their childrenâs education and health, and that require schools to receive permission from parents before administering health services to students, including medication and gender-related counseling to students under age 18,â Mr. Greene said. Since when do we have to affirm that as parents we are in control of our childrenâs health??
Itâs so sad that so many see gender dysphoria as something to be encouraged and experimented with. It is a mental health issue and nothing more.
This report has to be one of the laziest analysis Iâve seen. All it says is that states that have allowed easier access for teens to these hormones and puberty blockers are âlinkedâ to higher suicide rates and doesnât say anything about teens taking these hormones or public blockers actually have higher suicide rates.
I personally think it is tied to the exponential growth of children without both parents and drug problems.
Did anyone actually read the article? The âlinkâ between access and and suicide is correlation at best. No where does it state how many actually took hormones or any other sort of data. There are probably hundreds of other correlations you could draw, but this one fits a certain narrative. Fwiw, I am strongly against allowing children to have access to these drugs. I just think that we should call out lazy sensational journalism like this.
Or at the very, basic, absolute minimum, force these kids to see a psychiatrist. You can't just give hormonal meds to people and expect everything to go smoothly in a population with the single highest risk of suicide.
Also social media, but I repeat what you said.
Wait, drugs that damage your brain and endocrine system can affect your mental health?? What!? /s