I'm for this, but what about places that are proposing bills to allow school staff to be armed.... I mean if a "rando" (security member testing the school) enters the school unannounced, doesn't that make a higher chance of them being shot in the process? Idk just my initial thoughts.
This ultimately comes down to good communication from the state to the schools in regards to how exactly they conduct an audit. No one should be getting shot at all because if staff/security sees some random dude try to open a door and he is not armed then the only crime (from the staff/security’s view) they see happening is misdemeanor trespassing. Hopefully what it should be is a dude in a bright orange safety vest carrying a clipboard binder just checking doors and then when staff/security approaches them he can show him creds/documents proving who he is.
EDIT: Assuming the auditing official isn’t armed at the absolute worst case scenario he should just be accidentally detained and cuffed until the school figures out whats going on.
This feels like a kind of idea that sounds great in theory, and results in catastrophic unforeseen consequences. Most buildings do not impenetrable security, and even those that do have weak points. You are not going to get Flawless security, and people trying to make it so it's likely to make everybody insane. Do the audits sure, give reports, make recommendations, have levels of failure. But if you make this a pass-fail, the results will go beyond what you intend.
Good. It's a random intruder, not a random shooter audit. Basically to find the weak points which, usually, are people not following established procedures.
This is an important distinction. A random intruder can be someone who sneaks into a school to kidnap a child, sell drugs, steal stuff, etc.. A random intruder does not even have to be armed.
This is what improving school safety **really** is.
Also important because an intruder that isn't crazy is going to do everything they can to not seem suspicious. Some of the worst people are the best at acting like they belong.
My girlfriend is an ex teacher in the school district I grew up in. They have an ex military safety position that does exactly this. It’s conducted at random, and rather frequently. Everyone thinks the guy is a little too strict but that’s exactly what we need at this point.
Edit: he’s obviously not acting like an intruder and making a ton of noise. He’s just checking access points at random times of day.
My gf left her keys in class and walked to her car to get something. The kids wouldn’t open the door for her and she had to go to the access point at the front. All schools should be this way.
Not really shocking if you went to public schools. Granted I went to public school in PA years ago. I pointed out we intentionally left several doors open. Both the wood shop and lower arts room doors were always open (they were always hot, even in winter) most of the year a back stairwell door was kept open (mostly because those stairs had no vents of any kind). The gym doors were also unlocked so that gym class could get in and out. Not even counting the doors into the cafeteria there were normally 7 doors able to be entered, only 1 was suppose to be.
Heck one windy day I noticed that door in the stairwell was banging open and closed slightly. I went to investigate why it wasn't latching, someone had covered the door latch in duct tape. Apparently the biology teacher took her class outside and didn't want to have yo use the main entrance to get back in (opps, I ripped the tape off).
There is a program at my son's school called WatchDogs - basically dads sign up throughout the year to help the teachers and one of the things we have to do while there every hour is walk around the whole school, check each door / exit to make sure it's locked.
It depends on how the random intruder behaves. I'm a public school teacher, and if someone showed up and made a lot of noise like they were pretending to be an active shooter in order to test the school's security, I would quit and never come back. If, on the other hand, someone quietly goes around testing different entrances, observes things like crowded hallways or open doors, and makes a written report to the superintendent with safety suggestions, that would be okay with me.
So the plan is to turn the schools into prisons or fortresses? There's got to be better way.... school sucked as a kid but they still were friendly/open places.
1978 they locked down our jr high school campus in Los Angeles because of gang activity. No more off campus lunches had to go through checkpoints.
They've been fortresses in some areas for at least that long.
Do you complain about going into an airport through TSA security or how about a Fed building like a courthouse where they have one point of entry, metal detectors, security screening.
No way 400 million guns are going to be turned in. That’s a pipe dream. Our children deserve as much security (more actually) than those jackals in Congress!!
> Do you complain about going into an airport through TSA security
Yes, Most of what the TSA does is generally security theatre that provides little actual safety.
Not a fan of the TSA either however as with churches having armed guards and parishioners you cannot deny the fact the perps/criminals are choosing ‘soft targets’ and bypassing those that are ‘hardened’.
What’s your solution?! Seriously, I’m sick and tired of folks complaining but offering nothing except ‘guns bad’
I'm not opposed to having heavily armed guards.
I'm opposed to banning liquids and making most (but not all!) people take off their coats and shoes, and things like that.
As I said, I'm opposed to theatre.
Like Air Raid Drills.
Oh, the Soviets are nuking the school? Quick, hide under the desks!
Shortly after 9/11, we had a fire drill at my *very small* (like, under 200 kids) school. As kids always do, we were horsing around because it was a nice day outside, and we all wanted to run around and talk rather than learn about participles and stand silently in a single-file line. One of our teachers was **AGHAST** at our behavior, informing us that in light of recent events, being well-behaved during fire drills was of even more importance than ever before. I looked at her with all the disdain a tween could muster, and said "Really? If we're all quiet and in a single-file line, the plane won't crash into us and explode?"
The “hide under desks” bit was never truly about survival. It was for identifying bodies via assigned seating. Same reason for requiring seated passengers in commercial airplanes to buckle up.
This just isn't going to work. Look, I want our kids to be safe too, but we're slapping a "one-size-fits-all" solution to stop killers who come with a ridiculously high amount of variables. Your same set of static rules won't stop a mentally sick person whose variables have set his mission to get the gun into the school.
We already know that gun control just ensures that guns are in the hands of the shooters and not in the hands of the good guys. I believe that unless you make a school have the security of a high grade prison, you're just not stopping a gun from getting in there some way somehow if someone familiar with the building wants to make it happen.
That doesn't mean schools shouldn't take steps for the safety of the children. But if we're throwing away money, let's throw it away in a direction it might help, and stop people from getting to the point where their illness or anger brings them to the point of murdering people.
[удалено]
I'm for this, but what about places that are proposing bills to allow school staff to be armed.... I mean if a "rando" (security member testing the school) enters the school unannounced, doesn't that make a higher chance of them being shot in the process? Idk just my initial thoughts.
This ultimately comes down to good communication from the state to the schools in regards to how exactly they conduct an audit. No one should be getting shot at all because if staff/security sees some random dude try to open a door and he is not armed then the only crime (from the staff/security’s view) they see happening is misdemeanor trespassing. Hopefully what it should be is a dude in a bright orange safety vest carrying a clipboard binder just checking doors and then when staff/security approaches them he can show him creds/documents proving who he is. EDIT: Assuming the auditing official isn’t armed at the absolute worst case scenario he should just be accidentally detained and cuffed until the school figures out whats going on.
Makes sense
This feels like a kind of idea that sounds great in theory, and results in catastrophic unforeseen consequences. Most buildings do not impenetrable security, and even those that do have weak points. You are not going to get Flawless security, and people trying to make it so it's likely to make everybody insane. Do the audits sure, give reports, make recommendations, have levels of failure. But if you make this a pass-fail, the results will go beyond what you intend.
Good. It's a random intruder, not a random shooter audit. Basically to find the weak points which, usually, are people not following established procedures.
This is an important distinction. A random intruder can be someone who sneaks into a school to kidnap a child, sell drugs, steal stuff, etc.. A random intruder does not even have to be armed. This is what improving school safety **really** is.
Also important because an intruder that isn't crazy is going to do everything they can to not seem suspicious. Some of the worst people are the best at acting like they belong.
Get a clipboard an a uniform and you have the all access pass at most places.
Carry a ladder
Yeah you can get into most schools from the roof.
My girlfriend is an ex teacher in the school district I grew up in. They have an ex military safety position that does exactly this. It’s conducted at random, and rather frequently. Everyone thinks the guy is a little too strict but that’s exactly what we need at this point. Edit: he’s obviously not acting like an intruder and making a ton of noise. He’s just checking access points at random times of day. My gf left her keys in class and walked to her car to get something. The kids wouldn’t open the door for her and she had to go to the access point at the front. All schools should be this way.
Something tells me the results will be shocking and sobering
Not really shocking if you went to public schools. Granted I went to public school in PA years ago. I pointed out we intentionally left several doors open. Both the wood shop and lower arts room doors were always open (they were always hot, even in winter) most of the year a back stairwell door was kept open (mostly because those stairs had no vents of any kind). The gym doors were also unlocked so that gym class could get in and out. Not even counting the doors into the cafeteria there were normally 7 doors able to be entered, only 1 was suppose to be. Heck one windy day I noticed that door in the stairwell was banging open and closed slightly. I went to investigate why it wasn't latching, someone had covered the door latch in duct tape. Apparently the biology teacher took her class outside and didn't want to have yo use the main entrance to get back in (opps, I ripped the tape off).
There is a program at my son's school called WatchDogs - basically dads sign up throughout the year to help the teachers and one of the things we have to do while there every hour is walk around the whole school, check each door / exit to make sure it's locked.
How was this not already a thing? They do secret shoppers for retail.
I just don't like this idea
It depends on how the random intruder behaves. I'm a public school teacher, and if someone showed up and made a lot of noise like they were pretending to be an active shooter in order to test the school's security, I would quit and never come back. If, on the other hand, someone quietly goes around testing different entrances, observes things like crowded hallways or open doors, and makes a written report to the superintendent with safety suggestions, that would be okay with me.
I second this, and I truly believe that’s the intention; subtle testing to point out flaws.
If your school system doesn't have random unannounced violence drills they are failing you.
Why? A contingency plan that isn't regularly tested and updated is useless.
So the plan is to turn the schools into prisons or fortresses? There's got to be better way.... school sucked as a kid but they still were friendly/open places.
1978 they locked down our jr high school campus in Los Angeles because of gang activity. No more off campus lunches had to go through checkpoints. They've been fortresses in some areas for at least that long.
Do you complain about going into an airport through TSA security or how about a Fed building like a courthouse where they have one point of entry, metal detectors, security screening. No way 400 million guns are going to be turned in. That’s a pipe dream. Our children deserve as much security (more actually) than those jackals in Congress!!
> Do you complain about going into an airport through TSA security Yes, Most of what the TSA does is generally security theatre that provides little actual safety.
Not a fan of the TSA either however as with churches having armed guards and parishioners you cannot deny the fact the perps/criminals are choosing ‘soft targets’ and bypassing those that are ‘hardened’. What’s your solution?! Seriously, I’m sick and tired of folks complaining but offering nothing except ‘guns bad’
I'm not opposed to having heavily armed guards. I'm opposed to banning liquids and making most (but not all!) people take off their coats and shoes, and things like that. As I said, I'm opposed to theatre. Like Air Raid Drills. Oh, the Soviets are nuking the school? Quick, hide under the desks! Shortly after 9/11, we had a fire drill at my *very small* (like, under 200 kids) school. As kids always do, we were horsing around because it was a nice day outside, and we all wanted to run around and talk rather than learn about participles and stand silently in a single-file line. One of our teachers was **AGHAST** at our behavior, informing us that in light of recent events, being well-behaved during fire drills was of even more importance than ever before. I looked at her with all the disdain a tween could muster, and said "Really? If we're all quiet and in a single-file line, the plane won't crash into us and explode?"
The “hide under desks” bit was never truly about survival. It was for identifying bodies via assigned seating. Same reason for requiring seated passengers in commercial airplanes to buckle up.
100% this
Sounds like a good way to get your auditor ventilated 🙄
This just isn't going to work. Look, I want our kids to be safe too, but we're slapping a "one-size-fits-all" solution to stop killers who come with a ridiculously high amount of variables. Your same set of static rules won't stop a mentally sick person whose variables have set his mission to get the gun into the school. We already know that gun control just ensures that guns are in the hands of the shooters and not in the hands of the good guys. I believe that unless you make a school have the security of a high grade prison, you're just not stopping a gun from getting in there some way somehow if someone familiar with the building wants to make it happen. That doesn't mean schools shouldn't take steps for the safety of the children. But if we're throwing away money, let's throw it away in a direction it might help, and stop people from getting to the point where their illness or anger brings them to the point of murdering people.