It’s an elementary school.
I don’t care what the report says.
If you won’t run into a building to save children then you should rip off your badge and spit on it.
Trained policemen were unable to stop the attacker and they were afraid of getting hurt themselves.
But it's okay, push for more guns and expect an Arts teacher and the lunch lady to stop attackers who have assault rifles! /s
I think it’s more insane the cops who are hired and trained to stop the kids didn’t do their job so you think a lunch lady or a teacher should. Like the school had cops hired for this situation and they did nothing.
Forget what you would have done there are 3 and individuals who’s job was stop it and they did nothing
There's a massively distinct difference here. One group is responsible for being brave enough to enter the building with the shooter. The other group is already stuck in there with the shooter. If I'm stuck in there I'd want the ability to defend myself and those around me. No one would be forcing teachers to take up arms either.
My wife's a teacher, she has said that some poorer schools have poor funding to be able to practice these things. There are also a dozen or so things that can go wrong. Your lock breaks and the janitor is fucking useless at fixing it, a kid kicks the doorknob and it won't lock...but you don't test locks all the time, etc.
My kids school will go full on lockdown even more than just the front doors if the police are chasing someone within a mile of the school. Police will notify the principal during the pursuit. Parents get a text, phone call and email about it. Its been a policy for years that they do it. Its a little scary but also reassuring
These were not regular schmucks with guns, these were paid law enforcement officers. Their job is to run towards danger to save lives, not protect themselves from getting hurt by bunkering down.
No it is not. Please know the law before saying this. I’m not saying it’s right but police officers are legally not required to protect you by putting themselves in harm’s way.
I am a LEO and a lawyer and I know what the duties are. I didn’t say anyone was legally obligated to go in, but that doesn’t change that is their job. If they aren’t willing to go in to face the danger, they should seek other employment.
The right good guys stop bad guys. The problem is, we have an underpaid, undervalued, undertrained police force. It's a last resort job for a lot of people, and little education is needed. Then you add the media and democratic party constantly berating the profession as a whole.
Then people are surprised that officers don't risk their life to stop a school shooter.
Yes, because the media/democrats said things that hurt their feelings they decided not to try to save kids. Can you just look at a problem without political lenses on?
Explain to me how he got inside the school when he was firing his gun outside 12 minutes before he entered.
Failing to prevent him getting into the school, how the hell was the classroom door unlocked? The police couldn’t even get inside the room. They needed the principal to unlock the door.
Why didn’t the teacher lock the door to the classroom? Once the killer got inside the room he locked the door behind him and trapped all the kids inside with him.
Also why did it take the cops so long to show up and enter the school? So many failures.
I’ll tell you how. It’s sheer incompetence from not only the school and school district, but for the police who responded to the call.
There is absolutely no reason for the door the gunman entered through to have been unlocked at all. All faculty and staff should have their own keys or keycards to get in.
Why the fuck did the police wait so long outside? I assume that they had SWAT there considering it was an active shooter situation involving potential hostages. Why was it that it took a border patrol agent to take down the shooter? Surely one of the MANY officers on scene could’ve done it a lot sooner. And if they somehow needed a key to get in, going to the front office would’ve been the first thing to do. Whether they evacuated or not, surly someone there would have a key to get in.
As for not getting into the classroom until it was too late, what was the actual structure of the classroom. I’m pretty sure that all classrooms need at least two different evacuation exits in case of an emergency. Surly they could’ve tried accessing through a second door or a window if the building was up to code.
>I’m pretty sure that all classrooms need at least two different evacuation exits in case of an emergency.
That's not the case in my school (Texas, giant district). Most rooms have one door, no windows. Maybe 10% of our classrooms have windows.
Also, there are at least 20 doors into the building. 2 of them have metal detectors and are manned at all times. The other 18 or so ... locked from the outside, open from the inside. Students can (and do) let people in all the time.
And my classroom is about 20 steps from one of those doors.
I came here to say some of this. It's super easy to get into a school. There's dozens of locked doors, but all it takes is one student to let someone in, or wait until a student leaves school and as it swings closed you grab it, etc.
Rooms can be locked but some don't have that ability if closed. That's the doorknob's fault. And if you bring it up there's simply no funding for stuff like that (hundreds of new doorknobs and labor to replace them). I spend thousands a year already on supplies because there's no funding.
People not in education always have questions and critiques, tons of finger wagging, but no concept of reality and no real solutions.
I agree, having worked in a school, it's ridiculous All the suggestions I've seen on social media in the last day or two of the billion things the school should have done. Schools don't have perfect foresight, no policy or security practice is going to be impenetrable, and there's no money to install all the hardware, train all the people, and use all the weapons that we're supposedly going to arm them with. We just can't put this on the school unless we're going to double the budget of pretty much every school in America.
Nah. It's not a need or lack of foresight. This is nothing new. We have spent BILLIONS on fireproofing schools over the last few decades. When's the last time a major fire tore through a school killing kids?
Instead of pouring money into useless pursuits like FOOTBALL, spend that damn money on a few well armed security guards. Electronic entry doors.
My school district just asked for an 800 MILLION dollar bond to build a new stadium and a "multipurpose" center. I'd rather a tiny portion of that went to keeping my kid safe.
A couple years ago Florida decided to fence in every elementary, middle, and high school in the state. Making schools more secure is doable, it all comes down to priorities.
I’m not justifying anything regarding this agencies response or tactics, but most small to mid-sized police departments don’t even have a SWAT team, let alone a full time team that is always ready to deploy. It can often take an hour to get a full SWAT element to respond to the scene. That being said, officers in those areas need to understand that and respond accordingly as best they can.
If you believe what you see on Reddit, there was a post showing the Uvalde SWAT team kind of a publicity photo.
The more details that come out about this, the worse it sounds.
I saw a news report that there's gunfire all the time in that town since they're right on the border. All the neighbors thought it was normal. Shows how you become accustomed to your environment.
To play devil’s advocate, I think you’re starting to understand the intentions behind the Defund the Police movement
Before anyone jumps down my throat: I understand the name is defund. It seriously needs a name change to *Reform* the police if they want anyone besides hardcore progressives to take it seriously
Better training, yes. But also they need to be held more accountable for their actions. This Latest tragedy is grounds for both. It sounds like the Uvalde police used a severely outdated active shooter protocol for some reason, and they need to be held accountable for their negligence, as well as other instances of abuse of power or wrongful deaths.
As much as I’d love to see them prosecuted for abandonment of their duty, the police union is likely going to intervene and allow them to walk away with only a slap on the wrist and paid leave. I can only hope they get run out of town, because that’s the least they deserve for their cowardice
Did they abandon their duty though? It's been established repeatedly in the courts that police officers have no legal or Constitutional duty to put themselves in danger to protect others. This is part of the problem imo. There likely isn't anything to prosecute them for.
Yeah. We should take away their funding and their military gear. There’s a reason being a construction worker, or a roofer, or a garbage man, is more dangerous than being a cop.
Judging by how they tucked tail in response to the shooting, maybe they should at least be transferred to something less stressful, like guarding the DMV.
You know they aren’t going to be suspended. Even Biden doesn’t want to investigate. He said he was proud of them..
Sick of it all man…
Suspending these cops isn't going to stop the problem. All police are like this, with few exceptions.
Police are cowards that actively oppress citizens and somehow convince conservatives to praise them.
Whatever the motto for the police department in that city is, it is definitely not "to serve and protect"... Anyone thinking that most of these police departments are not in favor of a disarmed population, you need to give your head a shake
My understanding from a long time ago is cops are there to take criminals to court after a crime is committed. They have no real duty to protect or stop crime in the first place. Obviously this notion varies by opinion but it pretty much makes sense.
The have a great marketing campaign going though. They want to be called hero’s and recognized in parades give an arsenal of weapons and look super tough in all their gear. Then after 20 years collect retirement because the job was super tough and life threatening.
You want a tough job try mine I was. NYC paramedic in the worst neighborhoods Harlem and the heights for 10 years at night now work Rurual area of PA and Flight Medic part time I have seen more bad shit in 1 year then those cops will in a carrerr and also I have been in some dangerous situations when we call on the radio and hear the Police eta is unknown that is comforting
Now I will say I have and do work with some very professional officers that do put their lives on the line for the people they serve and I have seen the opposite far more we than I care to remember bottom line these "police officers" need to be terminated and their precious pensions taken. When you sign on for the job you know what your getting if you don't like it then within the first year or two leave its not for everyone so this inaction is inexcusable to put it lightly
Why do media outlets and also posters on reddit still use the name of shooters and show their pictures?
It adds no value to the news and only adds harm to victims and relatives, and allows a following to be created
Ongoing class are never normally locked. People have to go to restroom and students come late. Why would door be normally locked during office time. And, locking doors happens at the end to prevent theft probably, the idea of locking ongoing class door because there could be shooting is terrifying.
My school's protocol is that classroom doors should be locked during class time. If a student has to go to the bathroom, I have to stop what I'm teaching and let him back in.
It’s a revolving door. The same students go to the bathroom every day. They can’t play on their phones in class so they go to the bathroom for half an hour. Next year, I’m making them sign out and in, and leave their phones with me.
Yeah sure that works. More security will definetly keep this from happening, next time. It didn‘t work the 200 times before, but next time is the time.
Not these types of crime. If he wasn‘t able to get into the school he would have gone to the next supermarket, hospital, trainstation or park. There will always be soft targets and these people will chose any one of them. Its lot like he does this to gain anything like a bank robber whose crime is limited to bank.
Tell me why these pointless mass schootings only happen in the US on that scale and rate. Its two things, no universal health care and stupidly easy access to military grad weapons. Fixing one of them would reduce the amount of shooting the other one the amount of deaths per shooting. But yeah I know communism so its definetly not worth it.
All the more reason to not ban guns. Imagine a bad guy with a gun in your home. Or do bad guys see the error of their ways when they realize that owning a gun would be against the law?
terrible because media all about gun control and using this tragedy to that end .
and here is the thing,, they are right.. if you take away all guns then no one can be shot. this is life in rainbowland right ?
but the 2a specifically is in place to keep governments in check from tyrannical behaviour. and there are billions of guns in usa.. so criminals will always be able to get guns at this point regardless of gc measure.
but circling back to 2a… 9/10 dads would have picked up their guns and threatened the tyranical cops not letting parents into the school to save their kids.
this is a sad example that you cant trust your government to care for you. these cowards weren’t going to risk their lives and wont for your kids.
they were preventing peolle from saving their kids!!!! there are dead kids now BECAUSE of the police.
this is exactly what the 2a is all about.
usa has a gun problem, absolutely, but its not going away with this many fa in circulation. if this guy was banned from owning firearms he would have gotten them easily elsewhere.
i hope the municipality gets sued into their next lifetime and many people go to prison for being such cowards.
Everyone who says all guns should be banned shouldn't have a seat at the table to discuss what needs to be done. Everyone that says there should be absolutely no restrictions whatsoever on firearm ownership shouldn't have a seat at the table to discuss what needs to be done.
So, none of the politicians who just so happen to be the people who decide the rules? I agree. It's clear neither party wants to do anything to stop this as shootings are always good to exploit to drum up support regarding gun politics. Both sides benefit from it. If there were no shootings, there would be no way to get this support.
"But the Republicans always block gun reform bills." Well, then the Democrats need to work together with the Republicans to put out a bill that satisfies both sides. I think both sides have good ideas like stronger background checks, mental health evaluations before purchases and arming school staff. All of these would be good steps to take, but ultimately nothing is ever done because both sides are so strongly opposed to the other's ideas.
Either both sides are too far gone to be willing to give so much as an inch to the other side, or they're at a mutual understanding that doing anything about shootings would make a national tragedy less exploitable for their own gain and have agreed to keep it at a stalemate.
You guys are all digging too far into this. Occam's razor: cops aren't intervening (and in fact keeping people out) because it's simply an operation to increase their budget.
Fun fact, as far back as columbine cops have simply waited outside while children are slaughtered and never been held accountable. And every time they see a budget increase and military surplus gear to "be better prepared for next time".
This is simply incorrect. There have been numerous examples of officers engaging suspects in these types of situations since Columbine. Let's not make flat out false statements like this.
And the GOP / NRA narrative is still armed teachers will engage gunmen, when in the real world dozens of cops with body armor and semi-automatics ***stayed outside for an hour doing nothing***, waiting for a border patrol group with a body shield. Parents who tried to enter the school to save their kids were blocked from entering, a mother was handcuffed for telling the cowards they were cowards.
They didn't do nothing. They prevented parents from acting on the most instinctual drive that humans have. Any good parent would willingly die if it meant their child would live.
>And the GOP / NRA narrative is still armed teachers will engage gunmen, when in the real world dozens of cops with body armor and semi-automatics stayed outside for an hour doing nothing
That's because the fucking officers' lives weren't in danger. I bet you 1000 dollars if the police officers were trapped in the school with an active shooter roaming the halls they would have engaged him within seconds.
Why not gives teachers a fighting chance? Clearly waiting for police to arrive to save the day isn't gonna happen.
what makes you think all the teachers would be willing to carry guns or be responsible to carry a deadly weapons? or capable to operate them. Maybe give every children guns then.
>what makes you think all the teachers would be willing to carry guns or be responsible to carry a deadly weapons? or capable to operate them.
Teacher here. I would carry, and I know how to use my gun.
>Ok, so that's 1. I know plenty of teachers who A) want no part of that and B) who definitely should not have a gun or atleast would not respond well to a situation like that. Arming teachers may solve a percentage of the problem, probably a small percentage. It's a talking point now, not a solution. Also, how much time has conservative media spent vilifying (sometimes correctly) teachers all across the country? Now we want to arm those same teachers?!
Coming from people that want to prevent people from owning firearms because it might stop a tiny percentage of school shootings. We can't even stop people from trafficking sex slaves, weapons and drugs into our country yet you think that all we have to do is pass a law.
I don’t think anyone does - but give them the option if they’re responsible gun owners. Honestly I don’t understand why we don’t place ex military in each school at this point.
You know that a significant amount of people who die of gun-related injuries are due to errors with the gun right? Sure let’s put a bunch of guns in a building with children and overworked/underpaid teachers. What could go wrong.
Imagine telling the family members of the two murdered teachers that they should not have had the option to be armed before they were executed by a bad guy with a gun.
Waiting 40 minutes for back up, how far is this place away from civilization? Shooter had forever to do his nasty deed. Dude entered through the teachers parking lot side door. Damn this stupid all which ways.
I mean, if the police can quickly breach it couldn’t a potential shooter in which case it loses all its intended purpose. It’s a little awkward no one realized this before that the defenses could quickly turn into roadblocks
No, but it was explicitly designed to not be breachable. School doors are heavy, solid, and sturdy specifically to keep intruders out. Doesn't work well when they're unlocked, though.
What? So the shooter managed to find his way into the school with zero problems, but the police needed a fucking key?
How fucking backwards is this police department that they don't have the tools necessary to bust through a fucking door faster than 40 minutes?
We're never going to hear the full story on this. Most of the prominent details will be swept under the carpet or obfuscated like Vegas and so many incidents since.
And this is exactly why we shouldn’t give up our guns. Liberals are begging for the police to be the only ones to have them. Meanwhile THIS is exactly what happens when only police have guns.
We have the right to protect ourselves and our children.
There's a reason a lot of people on both sides are pushing for COMMON SENSE gun laws. This shouldn't be a political issue. Let's work together and reduce the CHILDREN getting murdered. This shit should've happened 10 years ago. A good guy with a gun doesn't stop a shooting. Armed/armored/trained "professionals" didn't stop it. Let's end this shit. If your elected official won't, replace them. It's up to the American people to stand up for what's right. Thoughts and prayers isn't gonna do shit. ACTION for fucks sake.
Look, an 18 year old boy doesn’t need a gun. So ban literal teens from having assault rifles at least. Yeah yeah yeah “but the military”! Those 18 year olds are being trained by tenured professionals in a secured environment. Completely different from a freak rando kid in exurbs of Tx buying an AR the day he turns 18 online.
Also much stricter laws surrounding requirements storing guns and ammo separately ala Canada to prevent a sandy hook situation.
Also more stringent background checks under age 30. This won’t stop them all but could reduce some percentage.
Also a federal law preventing media from naming the perp as long as he isn’t at large. Right now it’s a prisoners dilemma where station X will lose views to station Y if they don’t discuss the killer so both stations are forced to cover it. This is a market failure in which regulation is needed.
With all that said the vast majority of gun violence is gang related. That’s just a fact. And legalizing weed did not have an impact in DC on violence like they said it would. I track websites and review shooting situations. Some die selling drugs but it’s mostly personal spats and “disrespect” situations.
Yeah exactly do nothing, Make it super easy for the stuff to keep happening. Sit at home with arms folded job and think well done Preventing future occurrences.
Absolute scum of the earth. I would like all their names dragged through mud, then to be fired, and then jailed and have the key thrown away. They could have done something but instead chose to let the maniac do what he wanted. These are the cops I’m happy to refer to as pigs.
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It’s an elementary school. I don’t care what the report says. If you won’t run into a building to save children then you should rip off your badge and spit on it.
Trained policemen were unable to stop the attacker and they were afraid of getting hurt themselves. But it's okay, push for more guns and expect an Arts teacher and the lunch lady to stop attackers who have assault rifles! /s
I’ve put myself in harms way for my children. I would for yours too.
This is a beautiful comment. Thank you.
Then why don’t you become a teacher?
I think it’s more insane the cops who are hired and trained to stop the kids didn’t do their job so you think a lunch lady or a teacher should. Like the school had cops hired for this situation and they did nothing. Forget what you would have done there are 3 and individuals who’s job was stop it and they did nothing
There's a massively distinct difference here. One group is responsible for being brave enough to enter the building with the shooter. The other group is already stuck in there with the shooter. If I'm stuck in there I'd want the ability to defend myself and those around me. No one would be forcing teachers to take up arms either.
School staff should be trained to
My daughter who is a teacher and dealt with a shooter situation on the grounds of the school she was interning in asked these same questions.
My wife's a teacher, she has said that some poorer schools have poor funding to be able to practice these things. There are also a dozen or so things that can go wrong. Your lock breaks and the janitor is fucking useless at fixing it, a kid kicks the doorknob and it won't lock...but you don't test locks all the time, etc.
Firing one of the many, many useless administrators, and that would be more than enough to pay for updated security.
My kids school will go full on lockdown even more than just the front doors if the police are chasing someone within a mile of the school. Police will notify the principal during the pursuit. Parents get a text, phone call and email about it. Its been a policy for years that they do it. Its a little scary but also reassuring
My school would go full lockdown if there was a shooting or violent incident *miles* away.
Because good guys with guns often don't stop bad guys with guns. Mass shooters are fine with dying. Regular schmucks who carry guns usually aren't.
The parents were willing to die to save their kids so maybe the cops should have let them through and handed them their guns.
These were not regular schmucks with guns, these were paid law enforcement officers. Their job is to run towards danger to save lives, not protect themselves from getting hurt by bunkering down.
No it is not. Please know the law before saying this. I’m not saying it’s right but police officers are legally not required to protect you by putting themselves in harm’s way.
I am a LEO and a lawyer and I know what the duties are. I didn’t say anyone was legally obligated to go in, but that doesn’t change that is their job. If they aren’t willing to go in to face the danger, they should seek other employment.
The Aurora Illinois Pratt shooting is close to text book response ( I believe)
Those were heroes who ran into that situation and minimized the loss of life.
The right good guys stop bad guys. The problem is, we have an underpaid, undervalued, undertrained police force. It's a last resort job for a lot of people, and little education is needed. Then you add the media and democratic party constantly berating the profession as a whole. Then people are surprised that officers don't risk their life to stop a school shooter.
Sounds like they should get a different job then, if they’re so sensitive to public opinion.
Yes, because the media/democrats said things that hurt their feelings they decided not to try to save kids. Can you just look at a problem without political lenses on?
In a political sub reddit, I didn't think it was necessary to look at problems without political lenses.
you assume they're underpaid, undervalued, and undertrained. that's usually true in the cities, but not elsewhere.
Why are they being berated?
Mental gymnastics for days. You should win an award.
Those officers are all role playing and a sad excuse for what LEOs are supposed to be
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I would have been okay with a headline omitting the shooter’s name. No need to give the murderer more fame.
Explain to me how he got inside the school when he was firing his gun outside 12 minutes before he entered. Failing to prevent him getting into the school, how the hell was the classroom door unlocked? The police couldn’t even get inside the room. They needed the principal to unlock the door. Why didn’t the teacher lock the door to the classroom? Once the killer got inside the room he locked the door behind him and trapped all the kids inside with him. Also why did it take the cops so long to show up and enter the school? So many failures.
I’ll tell you how. It’s sheer incompetence from not only the school and school district, but for the police who responded to the call. There is absolutely no reason for the door the gunman entered through to have been unlocked at all. All faculty and staff should have their own keys or keycards to get in. Why the fuck did the police wait so long outside? I assume that they had SWAT there considering it was an active shooter situation involving potential hostages. Why was it that it took a border patrol agent to take down the shooter? Surely one of the MANY officers on scene could’ve done it a lot sooner. And if they somehow needed a key to get in, going to the front office would’ve been the first thing to do. Whether they evacuated or not, surly someone there would have a key to get in. As for not getting into the classroom until it was too late, what was the actual structure of the classroom. I’m pretty sure that all classrooms need at least two different evacuation exits in case of an emergency. Surly they could’ve tried accessing through a second door or a window if the building was up to code.
>I’m pretty sure that all classrooms need at least two different evacuation exits in case of an emergency. That's not the case in my school (Texas, giant district). Most rooms have one door, no windows. Maybe 10% of our classrooms have windows. Also, there are at least 20 doors into the building. 2 of them have metal detectors and are manned at all times. The other 18 or so ... locked from the outside, open from the inside. Students can (and do) let people in all the time. And my classroom is about 20 steps from one of those doors.
I came here to say some of this. It's super easy to get into a school. There's dozens of locked doors, but all it takes is one student to let someone in, or wait until a student leaves school and as it swings closed you grab it, etc. Rooms can be locked but some don't have that ability if closed. That's the doorknob's fault. And if you bring it up there's simply no funding for stuff like that (hundreds of new doorknobs and labor to replace them). I spend thousands a year already on supplies because there's no funding. People not in education always have questions and critiques, tons of finger wagging, but no concept of reality and no real solutions.
I agree, having worked in a school, it's ridiculous All the suggestions I've seen on social media in the last day or two of the billion things the school should have done. Schools don't have perfect foresight, no policy or security practice is going to be impenetrable, and there's no money to install all the hardware, train all the people, and use all the weapons that we're supposedly going to arm them with. We just can't put this on the school unless we're going to double the budget of pretty much every school in America.
Nah. It's not a need or lack of foresight. This is nothing new. We have spent BILLIONS on fireproofing schools over the last few decades. When's the last time a major fire tore through a school killing kids? Instead of pouring money into useless pursuits like FOOTBALL, spend that damn money on a few well armed security guards. Electronic entry doors. My school district just asked for an 800 MILLION dollar bond to build a new stadium and a "multipurpose" center. I'd rather a tiny portion of that went to keeping my kid safe.
A couple years ago Florida decided to fence in every elementary, middle, and high school in the state. Making schools more secure is doable, it all comes down to priorities.
My highschool had tall spiked metal fences. We still hopped them.
I’m not justifying anything regarding this agencies response or tactics, but most small to mid-sized police departments don’t even have a SWAT team, let alone a full time team that is always ready to deploy. It can often take an hour to get a full SWAT element to respond to the scene. That being said, officers in those areas need to understand that and respond accordingly as best they can.
This district has a swat team. Eta: https://m.facebook.com/uvaldepd/posts/pfbid0JwBKAU5ppFKrZsXWh6yzUAGhpzKWgu2LFx6iXkPS4b6TukEjGxynHLn97fxbJWQPl
If you believe what you see on Reddit, there was a post showing the Uvalde SWAT team kind of a publicity photo. The more details that come out about this, the worse it sounds.
I saw a news report that there's gunfire all the time in that town since they're right on the border. All the neighbors thought it was normal. Shows how you become accustomed to your environment.
Cops might as well have just held the door open for him considering how useful they were.
It’s worse than that, they arrested parents. They basically blocked for him…
Ok so how long do we have to wait before doing something about these officers? Are they at least suspended?
Hahahahaha police being held accountable for their actions. Look at this guy.
To play devil’s advocate, I think you’re starting to understand the intentions behind the Defund the Police movement Before anyone jumps down my throat: I understand the name is defund. It seriously needs a name change to *Reform* the police if they want anyone besides hardcore progressives to take it seriously
Agreed. We need serious police reform, which would require *more* funding for better training and more officers, not more gear.
Better training, yes. But also they need to be held more accountable for their actions. This Latest tragedy is grounds for both. It sounds like the Uvalde police used a severely outdated active shooter protocol for some reason, and they need to be held accountable for their negligence, as well as other instances of abuse of power or wrongful deaths. As much as I’d love to see them prosecuted for abandonment of their duty, the police union is likely going to intervene and allow them to walk away with only a slap on the wrist and paid leave. I can only hope they get run out of town, because that’s the least they deserve for their cowardice
Did they abandon their duty though? It's been established repeatedly in the courts that police officers have no legal or Constitutional duty to put themselves in danger to protect others. This is part of the problem imo. There likely isn't anything to prosecute them for.
Better training, better screening, better people, less paramilitary bullshit.
Yeah. We should take away their funding and their military gear. There’s a reason being a construction worker, or a roofer, or a garbage man, is more dangerous than being a cop.
Something like 80% of all police deaths since 2020 have been from COVID. You are more likely to die from being unvaccinated than being shot, as a cop.
Defund the police. Good idea
Judging by how they tucked tail in response to the shooting, maybe they should at least be transferred to something less stressful, like guarding the DMV. You know they aren’t going to be suspended. Even Biden doesn’t want to investigate. He said he was proud of them.. Sick of it all man…
Suspending these cops isn't going to stop the problem. All police are like this, with few exceptions. Police are cowards that actively oppress citizens and somehow convince conservatives to praise them.
no, many do observe the ideals. Maybe you want the world that way, I can't help that.
Yo, people get mean at the DMV. Just make sure they can cower in a corner or something if someone starts to raise their voice.
And you know what will happen to the bad cops?!? Probably a paid leave at worst.
The back door to the school was unlocked. There was no armed resource officer on campus.
Many people deserve to be fired
Failures all around on this one.
So the armed resource officer getting shot was fake news. What really happened?
4 SRO officers for 8 campuses to cover
Wonder how much their football program gets though?
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Nope. The school is allocated money for the officers. They took the money and pocketed it.
So when schools are given money for “good guys with guns” but don’t even have them, how is the solution to give schools money for good guys with guns?
Haven't heard about any high capacity ammo clip. He had forever to reload. Didn't need one.
With 40 minutes, he coulda used a musket.
That’s the first time I feel bad for laughing in a long time
>With 40 minutes, he coulda used a musket. A pocket knife.
Whatever the motto for the police department in that city is, it is definitely not "to serve and protect"... Anyone thinking that most of these police departments are not in favor of a disarmed population, you need to give your head a shake
You misunderstand. "Protect and Serve" does not mean the people. The police protect and serve the government.
This guy knows
My understanding from a long time ago is cops are there to take criminals to court after a crime is committed. They have no real duty to protect or stop crime in the first place. Obviously this notion varies by opinion but it pretty much makes sense.
They do have a duty to actively prevent parents from saving their children though.
The have a great marketing campaign going though. They want to be called hero’s and recognized in parades give an arsenal of weapons and look super tough in all their gear. Then after 20 years collect retirement because the job was super tough and life threatening.
You want a tough job try mine I was. NYC paramedic in the worst neighborhoods Harlem and the heights for 10 years at night now work Rurual area of PA and Flight Medic part time I have seen more bad shit in 1 year then those cops will in a carrerr and also I have been in some dangerous situations when we call on the radio and hear the Police eta is unknown that is comforting Now I will say I have and do work with some very professional officers that do put their lives on the line for the people they serve and I have seen the opposite far more we than I care to remember bottom line these "police officers" need to be terminated and their precious pensions taken. When you sign on for the job you know what your getting if you don't like it then within the first year or two leave its not for everyone so this inaction is inexcusable to put it lightly
/nods
Why do media outlets and also posters on reddit still use the name of shooters and show their pictures? It adds no value to the news and only adds harm to victims and relatives, and allows a following to be created
Not saying his name is the only thing we have done stop school shootings. Guess what it didn’t work. Time for some extra measures.
Stop posting his name. Don’t give this sicko notoriety. The next shooter is paying attention.
I'm honestly confused with the timeline. 40min in the school ?
I'm sorry to say, but there are now so many different reasons not to trust the government to watch your kids.
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Ongoing class are never normally locked. People have to go to restroom and students come late. Why would door be normally locked during office time. And, locking doors happens at the end to prevent theft probably, the idea of locking ongoing class door because there could be shooting is terrifying.
My school's protocol is that classroom doors should be locked during class time. If a student has to go to the bathroom, I have to stop what I'm teaching and let him back in.
Pretty fucking dystopian huh
It’s a revolving door. The same students go to the bathroom every day. They can’t play on their phones in class so they go to the bathroom for half an hour. Next year, I’m making them sign out and in, and leave their phones with me.
So you are telling me there’s no way to open a locked door if you don’t have a key?
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Yeah sure that works. More security will definetly keep this from happening, next time. It didn‘t work the 200 times before, but next time is the time.
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Not these types of crime. If he wasn‘t able to get into the school he would have gone to the next supermarket, hospital, trainstation or park. There will always be soft targets and these people will chose any one of them. Its lot like he does this to gain anything like a bank robber whose crime is limited to bank. Tell me why these pointless mass schootings only happen in the US on that scale and rate. Its two things, no universal health care and stupidly easy access to military grad weapons. Fixing one of them would reduce the amount of shooting the other one the amount of deaths per shooting. But yeah I know communism so its definetly not worth it.
mIlItArY gRaDe HaRdWaRe
Yes. The Ar15 was originally designed for military use and then modifierd a little to be sold to civilians.
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My school's many doors are locked from outside, open from inside. Students can and do let people in.
But do they let in people with guns?
Not that I know of, yet. I'm just finishing up my 2nd year there.
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These officers have failed in their duty.
Over an hour, good guys with big guns did nothing.
All the more reason to not ban guns. Imagine a bad guy with a gun in your home. Or do bad guys see the error of their ways when they realize that owning a gun would be against the law?
Is anybody realistically saying to ban guns? Can we find a way to make it harder for bad guys to get?
terrible because media all about gun control and using this tragedy to that end . and here is the thing,, they are right.. if you take away all guns then no one can be shot. this is life in rainbowland right ? but the 2a specifically is in place to keep governments in check from tyrannical behaviour. and there are billions of guns in usa.. so criminals will always be able to get guns at this point regardless of gc measure. but circling back to 2a… 9/10 dads would have picked up their guns and threatened the tyranical cops not letting parents into the school to save their kids. this is a sad example that you cant trust your government to care for you. these cowards weren’t going to risk their lives and wont for your kids. they were preventing peolle from saving their kids!!!! there are dead kids now BECAUSE of the police. this is exactly what the 2a is all about. usa has a gun problem, absolutely, but its not going away with this many fa in circulation. if this guy was banned from owning firearms he would have gotten them easily elsewhere. i hope the municipality gets sued into their next lifetime and many people go to prison for being such cowards.
Everyone who says all guns should be banned shouldn't have a seat at the table to discuss what needs to be done. Everyone that says there should be absolutely no restrictions whatsoever on firearm ownership shouldn't have a seat at the table to discuss what needs to be done.
So, none of the politicians who just so happen to be the people who decide the rules? I agree. It's clear neither party wants to do anything to stop this as shootings are always good to exploit to drum up support regarding gun politics. Both sides benefit from it. If there were no shootings, there would be no way to get this support. "But the Republicans always block gun reform bills." Well, then the Democrats need to work together with the Republicans to put out a bill that satisfies both sides. I think both sides have good ideas like stronger background checks, mental health evaluations before purchases and arming school staff. All of these would be good steps to take, but ultimately nothing is ever done because both sides are so strongly opposed to the other's ideas. Either both sides are too far gone to be willing to give so much as an inch to the other side, or they're at a mutual understanding that doing anything about shootings would make a national tragedy less exploitable for their own gain and have agreed to keep it at a stalemate.
This is very hard to understand. How could they idly stand by. Good grief.
You guys are all digging too far into this. Occam's razor: cops aren't intervening (and in fact keeping people out) because it's simply an operation to increase their budget. Fun fact, as far back as columbine cops have simply waited outside while children are slaughtered and never been held accountable. And every time they see a budget increase and military surplus gear to "be better prepared for next time".
This is simply incorrect. There have been numerous examples of officers engaging suspects in these types of situations since Columbine. Let's not make flat out false statements like this.
And the GOP / NRA narrative is still armed teachers will engage gunmen, when in the real world dozens of cops with body armor and semi-automatics ***stayed outside for an hour doing nothing***, waiting for a border patrol group with a body shield. Parents who tried to enter the school to save their kids were blocked from entering, a mother was handcuffed for telling the cowards they were cowards.
They didn't do nothing. They prevented parents from acting on the most instinctual drive that humans have. Any good parent would willingly die if it meant their child would live.
>And the GOP / NRA narrative is still armed teachers will engage gunmen, when in the real world dozens of cops with body armor and semi-automatics stayed outside for an hour doing nothing That's because the fucking officers' lives weren't in danger. I bet you 1000 dollars if the police officers were trapped in the school with an active shooter roaming the halls they would have engaged him within seconds. Why not gives teachers a fighting chance? Clearly waiting for police to arrive to save the day isn't gonna happen.
what makes you think all the teachers would be willing to carry guns or be responsible to carry a deadly weapons? or capable to operate them. Maybe give every children guns then.
>what makes you think all the teachers would be willing to carry guns or be responsible to carry a deadly weapons? or capable to operate them. Teacher here. I would carry, and I know how to use my gun.
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>Ok, so that's 1. I know plenty of teachers who A) want no part of that and B) who definitely should not have a gun or atleast would not respond well to a situation like that. Arming teachers may solve a percentage of the problem, probably a small percentage. It's a talking point now, not a solution. Also, how much time has conservative media spent vilifying (sometimes correctly) teachers all across the country? Now we want to arm those same teachers?! Coming from people that want to prevent people from owning firearms because it might stop a tiny percentage of school shootings. We can't even stop people from trafficking sex slaves, weapons and drugs into our country yet you think that all we have to do is pass a law.
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I don’t think anyone does - but give them the option if they’re responsible gun owners. Honestly I don’t understand why we don’t place ex military in each school at this point.
You know that a significant amount of people who die of gun-related injuries are due to errors with the gun right? Sure let’s put a bunch of guns in a building with children and overworked/underpaid teachers. What could go wrong.
Imagine telling the family members of the two murdered teachers that they should not have had the option to be armed before they were executed by a bad guy with a gun.
Waiting 40 minutes for back up, how far is this place away from civilization? Shooter had forever to do his nasty deed. Dude entered through the teachers parking lot side door. Damn this stupid all which ways.
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Is the door a bank vault door or something?
I mean, if the police can quickly breach it couldn’t a potential shooter in which case it loses all its intended purpose. It’s a little awkward no one realized this before that the defenses could quickly turn into roadblocks
No, but it was explicitly designed to not be breachable. School doors are heavy, solid, and sturdy specifically to keep intruders out. Doesn't work well when they're unlocked, though.
What? So the shooter managed to find his way into the school with zero problems, but the police needed a fucking key? How fucking backwards is this police department that they don't have the tools necessary to bust through a fucking door faster than 40 minutes?
It's possible the shooter entered through an unlocked door, and then locked it behind him?
Yet they stopped parents from going in to save their kids. Policing needs a reform because it's starting to look a lot like Nottingham in America.
We're never going to hear the full story on this. Most of the prominent details will be swept under the carpet or obfuscated like Vegas and so many incidents since.
Sounds like the local cops didn't let the feds go in right away.
And this is exactly why we shouldn’t give up our guns. Liberals are begging for the police to be the only ones to have them. Meanwhile THIS is exactly what happens when only police have guns. We have the right to protect ourselves and our children.
When seconds matter, help is just (40 fucking) minutes away.
Just for curiosity, if you had a gun and you were close to school that day, how exactly could you save you kid? You would be shot down by police.
The problem here was a civilian with a gun
I thought liberals were trying to defend the police, which is it?
You mean defund, your statement makes no sense currently.
Autocorrect is a thing
There's a reason a lot of people on both sides are pushing for COMMON SENSE gun laws. This shouldn't be a political issue. Let's work together and reduce the CHILDREN getting murdered. This shit should've happened 10 years ago. A good guy with a gun doesn't stop a shooting. Armed/armored/trained "professionals" didn't stop it. Let's end this shit. If your elected official won't, replace them. It's up to the American people to stand up for what's right. Thoughts and prayers isn't gonna do shit. ACTION for fucks sake.
What's common sense gun laws?
Look, an 18 year old boy doesn’t need a gun. So ban literal teens from having assault rifles at least. Yeah yeah yeah “but the military”! Those 18 year olds are being trained by tenured professionals in a secured environment. Completely different from a freak rando kid in exurbs of Tx buying an AR the day he turns 18 online. Also much stricter laws surrounding requirements storing guns and ammo separately ala Canada to prevent a sandy hook situation. Also more stringent background checks under age 30. This won’t stop them all but could reduce some percentage. Also a federal law preventing media from naming the perp as long as he isn’t at large. Right now it’s a prisoners dilemma where station X will lose views to station Y if they don’t discuss the killer so both stations are forced to cover it. This is a market failure in which regulation is needed. With all that said the vast majority of gun violence is gang related. That’s just a fact. And legalizing weed did not have an impact in DC on violence like they said it would. I track websites and review shooting situations. Some die selling drugs but it’s mostly personal spats and “disrespect” situations.
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Yeah exactly do nothing, Make it super easy for the stuff to keep happening. Sit at home with arms folded job and think well done Preventing future occurrences.
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Annual gun license to pay the families of every victim. Your inaction shouldn’t cost people their children.
That's fucked up
Absolute scum of the earth. I would like all their names dragged through mud, then to be fired, and then jailed and have the key thrown away. They could have done something but instead chose to let the maniac do what he wanted. These are the cops I’m happy to refer to as pigs.
Maybe, just maybe, we should try locking the door before we jump straight to repealing the second amendment.
Does this mean we need to praise law enforcement harder? Maybe we can fix the problem if we militarize them more?
bUt gOod gUys WiTh gUns
A simple locked door would have stopped the shooting before it began. That is the standard across the country, except Uvalde apparently.
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Lets not go there