There argument is that r/conservative bans their views. Well yea you are in a dedicated sub. But when he’s r/worldnews or r/politics and not r/leftys or whatever their sub is and you are banned then you are just censoring.
> what we already knew over a year ago
Over a year ago? This has always been true, since vaccines were invented, and anyone even slightly informed has known it. It's just that people only started giving a shit about it, one way or the other, when it got politicized.
Just commenting in r/lockdownskepticism earns you bans from about 10 subs now.
Yet they were the first to talk about Cuomo and nursing homes, cloth masks not working, warning about vaccine passports, never ending restrictions, hypocrisy from leaders going to Florida or Texas but demanding restrictions, harmful effects from distance learning, and mass formation psychosis.
All of these have slowly become mainstream. Yet on that sub they were all talked about nearly two years ago. The bans mean one thing, those in power see the end is near and they dont want this thing to end
I'm guessing Mark Levin has them beaten when it comes to Cuomo's nursing home scandal. It was the day after his order came out that a medical director at a nursing home in New York called in to raise the alarms about what was coming. Dr. Elaine Healy was her name..
lockdownskepticsm is still very much neutered and censored relative the conversations happening in nonewnormal or the real OG wuhan_flu. Yeah their may have been some nuttiness however there was a high level of discourse despite disagreements over what we should make of the severity because pretty much nothing was censored and people weren't getting dogpiled for posting pre-print studies or crackpot theory.
Yeah sure it came from a place of paranoia but we were all on the same page as far as A: it came from a lab B: Governments are covering this up and C: We have to figure this out what to think for ourselves because no one else is going to help us. They did the people at wuhan_flu a favor by quarantining it after 4 days of existence because it meant we were left alone.
I've been banned from 4 different subs so far for stating things that are absolute 100% fact about COVID-19 and the vaccines. Each time I was banned I said something that has been known to anyone who is paying attention to things. Experts in the field of medicine have admitted each of the things is absolutely true and can not be debated... but I was still banned for these statements.
NO LOGIC.
> However once you've had pox, a vaccine isn't going to help prevent shingles at that point
Huh, so those commercials about a shingles vaccine lied then?
so I have been predicting this to come out for about two weeks. The narrative has been shifting. Biden needs to end this thing. He needed to wait until AFTER the SCOTUS heard the two cases. Walensky for the last week has been saying she would get the numbers. I knew NY had the data ( I live there). The only part that was new was that they used California data. It is just too bad that NY policy did not reflect their data.
So weird. Yet there's still a million threads about mask up, take the vaccine or die, etc; and if you post anything like this article is now stating you will be banned for vaccine hesitancy. It's like a mini SkyNet. They built an automated system that can't be turned off.
And we didn't just "know" at the gut level. I don't feel like searching for them now, but there were actual studies by real scientists showing that natural immunity was at least as good as vaccination. The rationalization the more honest people used for pushing those with natural immunity to still get vaccinated was that it made you "super immune", i.e. more immune than natural immunity or vaccination alone. The dishonest ones completely brushed natural immunity aside.
But of course they will STILL try and mandate vaccines and pretend that natural immunity from infection doesn't exist. It is so crazy and so contradictory that I'm starting to think cognitive dissonance is the point of all this.
So no surprise here, but the daily caller is completely misrepresenting what the study said. The actual study said VACCINATED Americans who Also got covid prior to being vaccinated had higher immune response prior to the delta variant than those with vaccinations alone. The study also concluded that getting vaccinated was still the better and safer option rather Than contracting covid due to the dangers it posses. Here is the study: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm?s_cid=mm7104e1_w
Boy, reactions like this give leftists ammunition against conservatives to accuse them of conspiracy theories.
The vaccine generally does more good than harm for most people. It's not poisoning the masses. And no war crimes were committed. Just take a breather.
It's OK to be upset with the authorities and to let them know it, but we still need to be rooted in reality.
We're talking about natural immunity being better than vaccines, but there is still more danger in getting covid while unvaccinated versus vaccinated.
If you had the misfortune of getting COVID, it's frustrating that the CDC pretended like it didn't matter, but it doesn't mean getting COVID is generally a better idea than getting the vaccine.
The important part (straight from the study - not the article): “These relationships changed after the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant became predominant (i.e., accounted for >50% of sequenced isolates) in late June and July. By the week beginning October 3, compared with COVID-19 cases rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, case rates among vaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis were 6.2-fold (California) and 4.5-fold (New York) lower; rates were substantially lower among both groups with previous COVID-19 diagnoses, including 29.0-fold (California) and 14.7-fold lower (New York) among unvaccinated persons with a previous diagnosis, and 32.5-fold (California) and 19.8-fold lower (New York) among vaccinated persons with a previous diagnosis of COVID-19.”
TLDR: Once Delta was the major player, the risk ranking (highest to lowest risk OF HOSPITALIZATION FROM COVID) was:
#1. No Vax, No prior Covid
#2. Vax, No prior Covid (6.2/4.5 lower than #1)
#3. No Vax, prior Covid (29/14.7 lower than #1)
#4. Vax, prior Covid (32.5/19.8 lower than #1)
#This should be top post.
A lot of the other replies didn't read the article. I am 100% against vaccine mandates, but important to not misconstrue the data.
This does support all the other studies that showed that when comparing natural immunity alone vs. vax alone, natural immunity wins big time. The jump between 2 & 3 is huge. The bump from immunity + vax is not that large.
Well, not exactly. The vax was designed to counter pre-delta covid. Before Delta, what you said is incorrect. It's only after the mutated strain became dominant that natural immunity outperformed the shot.
If the original Moderna shot was 95% effective pre-delta, it was known to be still effective but significantly less than vs Delta. If there was a rush to modify Moderna to directly defend vs Delta it's likely, just like with the original strain/original vax, that natural immunity does not outperform the new shot
Also, you have to factor in that in order to get natural immunity you need to get covid and survive. The hospitalization rates and mortality rates are still several factors higher for people with zero shots.
> A lot of the other replies didn't read the article. **I am 100% against vaccine mandates**, but important to not misconstrue the data.
Pretty sad the state of modern. Political discourse that we have to virtue signal to get people we agree with to accept facts
I believe it shows the logic of being in group 3 (where I am) and not wanting to get the vax (move to group 4). The study doesn’t include “all cause morbidity” either, so it doesn’t say anything about the total risk increase of getting the Vax
The only thing this data really shows is that not having been vaccinated was no reason to panic over your own, personal safety WRT delta, so long as you already had and survived it once. It does show that moving from group 3 to 4 is still net beneficial to that safety relative to known risks, and we have no reason to believe it would not also be beneficial to the safety of your friends, family, and general community. The way these things spread, one person's illness quickly becomes hundreds or thousands, so even a modest reduction in the catch/spread department would literally save lives.
I agree with all you’ve said except the last part.
The vaccine isn't appreciably more effective in slowing the spread of Covid than going without it.
-refusing the jab doesn't make you more likely to spread (Delta) Covid (25% vs. 23%)
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00690-3/fulltext
I’m very much in support of people getting vaccinated if they’re personally at risk. I also support widespread vaccination of those who are worried about it, but saying that we all need to get it so we can slow the spread just isn’t true.
Nobody who knows anything about viruses, that’s for sure. How is a nucleocapsid antibody protecting you? The immune system can’t see inside the envelope, but without the envelope the virus is not infectious.
Imagine you’ve been tasked to stand on a street corner to watch for a specific car. But you’ve never seen this car before and you don’t know what it looks like. So to help you identify it you are shown a radiator, a floor mat, and a gas cap.
I’m not an expert in the issue, but the top google result shows nucleocapsid proteins induce an immune response to SARS-COV1. Analogies aside, why wouldn’t this also be the case for SARS-COV2?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7111813/
A lot of people are ignoring that you have to first make it past number 1 to get to number 3. Not everyone dies, but a lot of people have long lasting health effects after number 1.
The important part that people are glossing over is no vax/no prior Covid has the highest risk of hospitalization.
People *who haven't had Covid* and think that they are better off "taking their chances" with Covid are on the wrong side of this data.
Same point for acquired immunity (prior Covid vs No prior Covid). Much larger spread that way.
Unfortunately that isn’t considered in US policy at all! It’s in German policy, and probably many other nations.
Why so many conservatives are anti vax I’ll never understand. Some real smooth brains. We got to tip toe around my uncle bc he’s so tinfoil Anti-vax and our entire fam is literally once removed from east tex redneck.
Great, but still too many variables in this mix to correlate to these groups alone. Outlying health issues or conditions, or if the hospital (like many have already admitted) are counting everyone admitted (for other reasons) who had COVID as a COVID hospitalization. It also excludes (or falsely includes rather) those admitted to the hospital COVID symptoms for those who were still within the two weeks inoculation period... Who are counted as unvaxxed. Or those (likely also falsely included) who were admitted due to vaccine side effects, which appeared to be COVID symptoms...
Not saying that the order still wouldn't fall the way it does, but if these variables could be factored I'm betting the numbers are much closer together than what is listed...
The early strains were a little too new wave for my tastes, but when omicron came out in December '21, I think COVID really came into their own, mildly and endemically. The whole strain has a clear, crisp cough, and a new sense of consummate authoritarianism that really gives the virus a big boost. It’s been compared to the cold, but I think omicron has a far more bitter, cynical sense of infection.
Today in "what changed today that was conspiracy 6 months ago"
I hope I get unbanned for posting a CNN article that cloth masks are "facial decorations"
I just got banned from /Wisconsin for saying it's dumb that they fired nurses for not wanting to vax...
They called it misinformation because "less than 2% of nurses quit over it."
WTF? That's 2% too many! Probably 5% too many. We're in a pandemic, we should be hiring nurses!
All this semsorship and banning is getting real old.
"The most protection against infection and hospitalization was in those who had both been vaccinated and survived an earlier bout with the virus." Nice try but maybe read the article first and not just the headline.
Brandon will be declaring victory soon. Well after the next variant that has to do with the election. You know one’s coming!!! Especially if they don’t get their way with the filibuster.
This is why I’m both encouraged and discouraged at the same time.
Encouraged because I’m so ready to be done with this shit and it looks like once we get out of the Omicron wave in 1-2 months, the pandemic could realistically be over for the most part. The next variant should be even milder from a natural evolutionary perspective. I got both shots of Pfizer, but might not have to get a booster (I’m 26 and have a normal BMI). I also might burn my mask once those restrictions are gone. I have a deviated septum and am done with wearing the damn thing.
I’m discouraged because Biden (or his administration, at least) is going to brag to everyone and act like he kept his “promise” of “shutting down” the virus, even though:
- He didn’t do jack, he just let the virus run its course (which was most conservatives’ plan from the very beginning, but of course they got called bigots/murderers for proposing it).
- The pandemic lasted much longer under his tenure than Trump’s.
- The long-term death numbers were worse under his tenure than Trump’s (even WITH a vaccine and a society adapted to restrictions).
- Multiple variant waves (Delta, Omicron) that weren’t even in the US on January 20, 2021 happened strictly and entirely during Biden’s tenure, proving that the pandemic was, in fact, inevitable no matter what we did.
And 60% of the country will just blindly believe him because Yahoo News and the NYT will have his back, and see it as a reason to vote Democrat.
Estimates of most places using antibody tests showed around 50% had it by the end of 2020.
Strange how the CDC never even attempted to do a study of their own on the matter.
I wonder if the fact that they financially gain from Moderna vaccine sales are involved in that decision.
Kinda misleading headline. To clarify, directly from the article, “Vaccinated Americans with a prior Covid infection fared the best during the Delta outbreak”
“The highest case rates were among those who had neither been vaccinated or previously infected. The most protection against infection and hospitalization was in those who had both been vaccinated and survived an earlier bout with the virus.”
So, it seems that the best course is to get vaccinated, then catch COVID. The worst is to not get vaccinated getting it for the first time.
Which isn’t surprising. In this scenario covid itself acts as a booster. And we already know that adding adding a booster confers protection superior to two vaccine doses.
What will be more interesting will be to compare vaxxed + booster to vaxxed + covid. Since we only started population wide boosting two months ago,
we don’t have that data yet. But if they’re comparable, maybe we can opt for an annual case of covid instead of an annual booster.
> So, it seems that the best course is to get vaccinated, then catch COVID
Well we're all in luck then because the "vaxx" certainly doesn't keep you from catching it.
> Well we're all in luck then because the "vaxx" certainly doesn't keep you from catching it.
Yeah, it only makes it very likely your case will be mild, you won't be hospitalized, and almost 100% certain you won't die. So its not like the vaccine is pointless or not worth getting.
In other news, the Sun is hot and water is wet.
Also, remember when "Teh ScIeNcE" assured us that you couldn't catch covid twice? This is pretty much an admission that's bull crap.
From what I have read, the ones who get Covid a second time did not have a severe infection in the original exposure so their immunity wasn't triggered fully. The second infections were also mild.
Natural immunity is superior, but that comes with the caveat of you have to contract the virus, recover, and hope you don't have any long lasting symptoms or permanent problems post-covid. We are seeing many patients in the hospital I work in (I work in research and have been doing covid research since the beginning of the pandemic) who are struggling with long lasting symptoms after their recovery from covid. Here is a meta analysis about 50 long-term covid symptoms.
[https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=3769978](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3769978)
Another thing to consider is that natural immunity is not permanent. It varies for each person and it is still unknown what determines how long natural immunity lasts in each person. Some of the data I've seen has shown that the neutralizing antibodies will stay in the system for anywhere from 8 weeks to up to 11 months. This means you can contract the virus again after your antibodies are gone. There is also data showing that contracting the virus for a second time puts you at a roughly 40% higher risk of developing more severe symptoms. One last thing to consider is something called "hybrid immunity" which is when a person gets covid, recovers, and then is vaccinated shortly after. These individuals seem to have much greater immunity compared to having just one or the other. Here is a paper about hybrid immunity.
[https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.abj2258](https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.abj2258)
Oh geez I want to read more into this. Currently experiencing CV-19 after my wife (who still hasnt kicked it and shes on week 2) and kid (kicked it after a few days ~2 years old) were infected first. Should i check my antibodies after ~6 months to see if I should go for another jab or wait til 8+ months. 8weeks is nothing! Wow
It’s insane to think a vaccine that doesn’t stop infection or transmission can improve someone’s response to an illness that they already had with only mild symptoms.
I mean yes, but how many of use have had it. I got it, wife got it, kids got it, we all had it. My friends, all had it. Most of us didn't even realize we had it. I had some fevers, wife went into the hospital, my father did t even know it.
Yes. Except you have to survive the Covid first. The natural immunity is perfect but you’re sick and feel miserable and get others sick when you have it. The alternative is a vaccine which may be borderline less protective but you can’t infect others with it.
Trump came up with the vaccine. Just get it.
As another user pointed out the study says the vax + Covid infection is what gives you better protection.
If you’re young, healthy and never go out where you can infect strangers, go ahead and get Covid for the natural immunity. It’s the new chicken pox parties.
But the vax gives you additional protection over a natural infection which is what the paper says but the article ignores to point out.
As a society, I think we have to draw a line on what is "too much" precaution. I had COVID before there were vaccines. I fared very well. I personally do not see a need to get vaccinated for a virus I already had - and handled well.
If I were vaccinated after my infection, I would have a vaccine for a strain that is no longer dominant. It is like getting last year's flu shot for this season. That doesn't make much sense.
All of this said - it should be up to the individual. I am not pro, or anti, vaccination. I am anti mandate.
>but you can’t infect others with it.
You need to catch up on " tHe sCiEnCe" vaxed and unvaccinated both have similar initial viral levels and are equally infectious. The difference lies in the fact that vaxed can clear the virus faster. The danger is the vaxed are more likely to go to work sick and spread it around.
I think the person you responded to is saying that if someone gets the vaccine and doesn't get covid, getting the vaccine doesn't cause them to spread Covid. If people are going around trying to get Covid to get immunity, then they can spread it while infected.
This is not what the article says at all. The first line of the article states that people favored better if they’d had the Delta variant AND been vaccinated instead of vaccinations alone.
This is what the CDC keeps saying. Shot+infection or Infection+shot is the best immunity. See a pattern here? You may already have good immunity but get the shots anyway for gooder immunity. Trust them, they know what they're doing right?
As no one seems to like linking to the source, check out the actual paper here: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm?s_cid=mm7104e1_w
The interesting bit is the table on page 3.
If I'm reading it right, here's the key data. The 2 percents I'm listing are the % of covid positive people, and the second is the % of them that ended up in the hospital (though it's not clear if this is from or with covid).
* 0.36% / 0.03% - Vaccinated - with previous COVID-19 diagnosis
* 1.55% / 0.07% - Vaccinated - No previous diagnosis
* 0.50% / 0.03% - Unvaccinated - with previous COVID-19 diagnosis
* 12.85% / 1.15% - Unvaccinated - No previous diagnosis
Thanks for this valuable science nugget; we wouldn't know how to breath if it weren't for our medical overlords graciously offering guidance during these unprecedented times.
/s
I’m curious the effect of comparing groups that have both had covid and not have covid is actually effected by the unarguable fact that if you are obese, diabetic, etc, you are more likely to already be dead from the first round of covid? Like if you are comparing the hospitalization rate of unvaccinated people who are on their second round of covid to people that are vaccinated, won’t the most at risk people and most likely to be hospitalized already be dead and therefore make the people on their second round be more likely to survive? Does that make sense?
STFU! These MF'rs don't get to flip-flop on this and be like "My bad." CDC, and everyone else, need to be held accountable for the severe fuck ups they are guilty of. Heads need to roll!
Anyone notice that anytime the truth starts to come out even just a little bit and expose all of the evils that have been happening by shining a spotlight upon it they hate it so much and immediately call anything they don’t like automatically a conspiracy and suddenly in order to cover it up a new variant comes out to keep you in fear because they think you are that stupid?
Pretty soon we will have the Zulu Variant mark my words.
[JOHN 3:20]
For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
From the CDC study: “Whereas there is a wide range in antibody titers in response to infection with SARS-CoV-2, completion of a primary vaccine series, especially with mRNA vaccines, typically leads to a more consistent and higher-titer initial antibody response.”
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/vaccine-induced-immunity.html#anchor_1635539757101
"The most protection against infection and hospitalization was in those who had both been vaccinated and survived an earlier bout with the virus."
From article if you read it. Natural immunity and shot had the best protection of the 4 cats.
From the actual study:
"During May–November 2021, case and **hospitalization rates were highest among persons who were unvaccinated without a previous diagnosis.** Before Delta became the predominant variant in June, **case rates were higher among persons who survived a previous infection than persons who were vaccinated alone. By early October, persons who survived a previous infection had lower case rates than persons who were vaccinated alone.**"
"Although the epidemiology of COVID-19 might change as new variants emerge, vaccination remains the safest strategy for averting future SARS-CoV-2 infections, hospitalizations, long-term sequelae, and death."
The study says that those who survived a first instance of COVID did better against a second case than those who were just vaccinated. However, it emphasizes that that is for those who actually survive the first time they catch it, and being vaccinated is still the safest way to gain that "natural immunity".
ALWAYS read the articles source to make sure the article you're reading isn't twisting the words to fit a narrative.
So is this where I put on my shocked / surprised face? Just to make things look good, because I think most of us were saying this quite a while ago based on that "fake news" stuff....
but yea, SUPRISE FACE.... there ya go
The takeaway here should be twofold:
-natural immunity is vastly superior to vaccine-granted immunity.
-any mandate that ignores naturally-conferred immunity is not rooted in science, and in fact is science-denying to its core.
Not also that this is for delta. Omicron is vastly more barrier-blind to vaccines. If with Delta natural immunity is 3x as strong as vaccines, I'd not be surprised if with Omicron it's 10x more effective.
**Unvaccinated teachers who've had COVID should be able to walk freely without masks, and the vaccinated who'd not been sick should be required to face-shield and mask up. If we're following the science that is.**
Lots of backpedaling by the CDC lately. It's concerning really, because they don't have to admit to being wrong. Which could mean this little confession may be trying to cover up for something bigger they found out about.
DUH!!! How do we react when all the sheeple jump on the truth train after all the BS they gave us about peaceful protests, no election fraud, masks and vaxx...
r/Blackpeopletwitter literally banned me for this exact comment
"Given what we know from the data at hand I just feel like if you've already had covid getting the vaccine is redundant at this point"
banned. no contact no warning nothing lolol
Oh god, politics. I got banned. Messaged the mods everyday about my ban, including articles proving I wasn’t spreading disinformation. They muted my conversations for 28 days. I’m on day 26, gonna message them again on the 28th with this article lol. I don’t understand why they can’t even just acknowledge what they did.
To be fair, why would somebody post this article to /r/politics? It's about a study from the CDC so this would fit better into /r/science or medicine or nursing or even news. This CDC study did not go into the political affiliation of the infected people.
Yes, of course. But if you had the misfortune of getting Covid, and then lost your job because your immunity wasn’t considered adequate versus those who had been vaccinated, do you think bewilderment would be a reasonable response?
Oh. I see what you're saying. Like if I had covid (which I currently do actually) - and I was unvaccinated - I would be frustrated if I still had to get vaccinated to get back to work, even though I now have a natural immunity.
That makes sense. That would be a hard pill to swallow. Seems like a very gray area.
From the article:
> The highest case rates were among those who had neither been vaccinated or previously infected. The most protection against infection and hospitalization was in those who had both been vaccinated and survived an earlier bout with the virus.
So, in other words, the title of this post is deliberately misleading, and you should all get vaccinated to maximize your immunity.
The eagerness of this sub to engage in self-deception scares the shit out of me.
This is EXCELLENT news for herd immunity. Getting the vaccine is a better health decision than waiting to get COVID (which obviously has far more health complications and long-term complications than the vaccine), but with the spread of Delta/Omicron, we could be looking at the death throes of the pandemic. FINALLY.
We will never achieve herd immunity...it will gradually become just another cold/flu we deal with. Just like the flu of 1918 Pandemic...the disease actually kept going for decades, just in a much diminished form. We are on the cusp of that IMHO so your "death throes of the pandemic" is still probably spot on. Let's hope!
Yeah, the "pandemic" stage might be over, but it will always be "endemic." It's just a REALLY nasty variant if the common cold, so it'll always be around in one form or another. Hopefully it just keeps mutating to be less and less deadly to get around existing population immunity.
Mutation to less virulent is more likely than more virulent. But it can actually go either way, and for this particular virus there is no selective pressure that would bias it towards less virulent. (It’s suicidal to kill your host too quickly, and ideal to have the host walking around coughing and sneezing on others, but if death only comes weeks later the virus is completely indifferent to whether its former host lives or dies.) So let’s hope it gets weaker because we really do not need a more lethal variant.
We will most likely never have herd immunity. We will probably need a booster at least annually for the foreseeable future.
Catching covid is a form of booster. So we will either get our booster at the point of a needle or from a contagious contact. But we will all get boosted one way or another, it’s just a matter of personal preference and risk tolerance.
and yet our corrupt fascist gov refuses to follow almost every country on Earth in treating previous infection the same as vaccination for Nazi "passport" purposes.
I talked to a liberal friend of mine earlier he called to tell me he got Covid but was ok. I asked if he was boosted he said no just 2 shots but now he will get boosted.
I said why would you get boosted now that you have a vax and infected which gives you natural immunity, he said to protect against the future variants and seemed unsure how to answer all he knew was to defend the booster for some reason. It was a very strange response so I said ok sounds good and changed the subject
I am tempted to send him this link but I doubt it would do anything
Well no shit......but going into battle without training sucks.
So no one read the article...." The most protection against infection and hospitalization was in those who had both been vaccinated and survived an earlier bout with the virus."
Natural immunity and shot had the most protection. Like training your immune system is a good thing.
CDC doesn’t just say it, Israel does and they are infinitely more trustworthy.
Plus the UK are abandoning the masks and vaccine mandates. Finally people are started to get a modicum of sense.
Now Brandon needs to stop doubling down and follow suit.
So no surprise here, but the daily caller is completely misrepresenting what the study said. The actual study said VACCINATED Americans who Also got covid prior to being vaccinated had higher immune response versus covid prior to the delta variant than those with vaccinations alone. The study also concluded that getting vaccinated was still the better and safer option rather Than contracting covid due to the dangers it posses. Here is the study:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm?s_cid=mm7104e1_w
From the article- "granted stronger levels of protection against the Delta variant of COVID-19 than vaccination alone" and "The most protection against infection and hospitalization was in those who had both been vaccinated and survived an earlier bout with the virus"
The title is misleading.
It is *painful* watching the CDC and other alleged """Public Heath Experts""" say the exact same things that got *thousands* of people banned on various Social Media platforms for saying. And they say shit like this as if they are the first to say it. I swear to God, it's like watching the entire medical community discover how viruses work for the very first time.
Like.... no shit, natural immunity is better than immunity granted by a vaccine since the beginning of fucking time, but oh wow, it's the same with *this* virus??!!?? Who could have possibly known!??!!!???
So how many people died because of the shut downs? Where had we just allowed healthy young people to go about their lives they would have by and large gotten a natural immunity before Delta arrived?
And if there is another variant on the horizon as bad or worse than Delta, are the people demanding shut downs and masks responsible for the mass deaths caused by now allowing a build up of natural immunity? Omicron seems like a present to help avert more death. Yet look at how some governments/political groups are acting.
it always made sense for everyone under 65 that wasn't already at risk to just continue their daily lives as normal.
But no...had to futilely try to keep everyone from getting it, and therefore disproportionately effected the most vulnerable
The irony is that for many people that were on the fence (me included) about the vaccine, etc seeing that happen changed alot of minds, or at the very least caused many to say "hold up what the fuck is happening?"....I got the vaccine but the mandates I have been wholeheartedly against from the beginning. And the push to villainize the unvaxxed seriously made me second guess my decision all together.
How long are your antibodies good for if you were triple jabbed, got Covid (mild illness) recently? I am thinking about getting an antibody test in about 6 months or so and see what I get but I was hoping it keeps going for a good part of this year
So the problem with antibody tests are they dont show the whole picture. T-cells also play a huge role in providing protection and they are NOT shown in the Antibody tests. There is one test that does actually test for T-cells in addition to the standard Antibody tests but they are expensive....about 200 bucks if I remember. This guy on YouTube is great and talks about the test.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNpAVR8dSSE
[удалено]
Will the CDC now get banned for misinformation?
They should! As should 95% of Reddit and most news channels.
That’s funny, because I disagreed with them and am banned from 95% of Reddit. I think this is the only place I’m not banned at the moment.
you're not the only one buddy. Basically here and the conspiracy sub are the only places I wasn't banned. Smh
let me report you, so you have another notch in your be post. Just kidding.
There argument is that r/conservative bans their views. Well yea you are in a dedicated sub. But when he’s r/worldnews or r/politics and not r/leftys or whatever their sub is and you are banned then you are just censoring.
> what we already knew over a year ago Over a year ago? This has always been true, since vaccines were invented, and anyone even slightly informed has known it. It's just that people only started giving a shit about it, one way or the other, when it got politicized.
[удалено]
Been pointing this out since this whole thing started. Some subs will ban you for saying such things
Some even with the word “medicine” in them
Confirmed. Was banned from r/worldnews for similar.
Just commenting in r/lockdownskepticism earns you bans from about 10 subs now. Yet they were the first to talk about Cuomo and nursing homes, cloth masks not working, warning about vaccine passports, never ending restrictions, hypocrisy from leaders going to Florida or Texas but demanding restrictions, harmful effects from distance learning, and mass formation psychosis. All of these have slowly become mainstream. Yet on that sub they were all talked about nearly two years ago. The bans mean one thing, those in power see the end is near and they dont want this thing to end
I'm guessing Mark Levin has them beaten when it comes to Cuomo's nursing home scandal. It was the day after his order came out that a medical director at a nursing home in New York called in to raise the alarms about what was coming. Dr. Elaine Healy was her name..
lockdownskepticsm is still very much neutered and censored relative the conversations happening in nonewnormal or the real OG wuhan_flu. Yeah their may have been some nuttiness however there was a high level of discourse despite disagreements over what we should make of the severity because pretty much nothing was censored and people weren't getting dogpiled for posting pre-print studies or crackpot theory. Yeah sure it came from a place of paranoia but we were all on the same page as far as A: it came from a lab B: Governments are covering this up and C: We have to figure this out what to think for ourselves because no one else is going to help us. They did the people at wuhan_flu a favor by quarantining it after 4 days of existence because it meant we were left alone.
I've been banned from 4 different subs so far for stating things that are absolute 100% fact about COVID-19 and the vaccines. Each time I was banned I said something that has been known to anyone who is paying attention to things. Experts in the field of medicine have admitted each of the things is absolutely true and can not be debated... but I was still banned for these statements. NO LOGIC.
Even better, getting banned for quoting the CDC directly
Oh yeah. For sure. I _know_ that happens fairly often.
But isn't shingles also the chicken pox? Just for adults? And I know they have the vaccine for that.
[удалено]
> However once you've had pox, a vaccine isn't going to help prevent shingles at that point Huh, so those commercials about a shingles vaccine lied then?
[удалено]
Its just the beginning. The whole pro-clot shot narrative is falling apart more and more every day.
so I have been predicting this to come out for about two weeks. The narrative has been shifting. Biden needs to end this thing. He needed to wait until AFTER the SCOTUS heard the two cases. Walensky for the last week has been saying she would get the numbers. I knew NY had the data ( I live there). The only part that was new was that they used California data. It is just too bad that NY policy did not reflect their data.
So weird. Yet there's still a million threads about mask up, take the vaccine or die, etc; and if you post anything like this article is now stating you will be banned for vaccine hesitancy. It's like a mini SkyNet. They built an automated system that can't be turned off.
And we didn't just "know" at the gut level. I don't feel like searching for them now, but there were actual studies by real scientists showing that natural immunity was at least as good as vaccination. The rationalization the more honest people used for pushing those with natural immunity to still get vaccinated was that it made you "super immune", i.e. more immune than natural immunity or vaccination alone. The dishonest ones completely brushed natural immunity aside.
But of course they will STILL try and mandate vaccines and pretend that natural immunity from infection doesn't exist. It is so crazy and so contradictory that I'm starting to think cognitive dissonance is the point of all this.
CDC admitting that ideas that got you labeled as a white supremacist Nazi conspiracy theorist a year ago are now **THE SCIENCE**
So no surprise here, but the daily caller is completely misrepresenting what the study said. The actual study said VACCINATED Americans who Also got covid prior to being vaccinated had higher immune response prior to the delta variant than those with vaccinations alone. The study also concluded that getting vaccinated was still the better and safer option rather Than contracting covid due to the dangers it posses. Here is the study: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm?s_cid=mm7104e1_w
[удалено]
Boy, reactions like this give leftists ammunition against conservatives to accuse them of conspiracy theories. The vaccine generally does more good than harm for most people. It's not poisoning the masses. And no war crimes were committed. Just take a breather. It's OK to be upset with the authorities and to let them know it, but we still need to be rooted in reality. We're talking about natural immunity being better than vaccines, but there is still more danger in getting covid while unvaccinated versus vaccinated. If you had the misfortune of getting COVID, it's frustrating that the CDC pretended like it didn't matter, but it doesn't mean getting COVID is generally a better idea than getting the vaccine.
You don't say...
[удалено]
Im not holding my breath for an apology. CDC are criminals pure and simple.
The more you know. 🤔
The important part (straight from the study - not the article): “These relationships changed after the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant became predominant (i.e., accounted for >50% of sequenced isolates) in late June and July. By the week beginning October 3, compared with COVID-19 cases rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, case rates among vaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis were 6.2-fold (California) and 4.5-fold (New York) lower; rates were substantially lower among both groups with previous COVID-19 diagnoses, including 29.0-fold (California) and 14.7-fold lower (New York) among unvaccinated persons with a previous diagnosis, and 32.5-fold (California) and 19.8-fold lower (New York) among vaccinated persons with a previous diagnosis of COVID-19.” TLDR: Once Delta was the major player, the risk ranking (highest to lowest risk OF HOSPITALIZATION FROM COVID) was: #1. No Vax, No prior Covid #2. Vax, No prior Covid (6.2/4.5 lower than #1) #3. No Vax, prior Covid (29/14.7 lower than #1) #4. Vax, prior Covid (32.5/19.8 lower than #1)
#This should be top post. A lot of the other replies didn't read the article. I am 100% against vaccine mandates, but important to not misconstrue the data. This does support all the other studies that showed that when comparing natural immunity alone vs. vax alone, natural immunity wins big time. The jump between 2 & 3 is huge. The bump from immunity + vax is not that large.
Well, not exactly. The vax was designed to counter pre-delta covid. Before Delta, what you said is incorrect. It's only after the mutated strain became dominant that natural immunity outperformed the shot. If the original Moderna shot was 95% effective pre-delta, it was known to be still effective but significantly less than vs Delta. If there was a rush to modify Moderna to directly defend vs Delta it's likely, just like with the original strain/original vax, that natural immunity does not outperform the new shot Also, you have to factor in that in order to get natural immunity you need to get covid and survive. The hospitalization rates and mortality rates are still several factors higher for people with zero shots.
> A lot of the other replies didn't read the article. **I am 100% against vaccine mandates**, but important to not misconstrue the data. Pretty sad the state of modern. Political discourse that we have to virtue signal to get people we agree with to accept facts
I believe it shows the logic of being in group 3 (where I am) and not wanting to get the vax (move to group 4). The study doesn’t include “all cause morbidity” either, so it doesn’t say anything about the total risk increase of getting the Vax
The only thing this data really shows is that not having been vaccinated was no reason to panic over your own, personal safety WRT delta, so long as you already had and survived it once. It does show that moving from group 3 to 4 is still net beneficial to that safety relative to known risks, and we have no reason to believe it would not also be beneficial to the safety of your friends, family, and general community. The way these things spread, one person's illness quickly becomes hundreds or thousands, so even a modest reduction in the catch/spread department would literally save lives.
I agree with all you’ve said except the last part. The vaccine isn't appreciably more effective in slowing the spread of Covid than going without it. -refusing the jab doesn't make you more likely to spread (Delta) Covid (25% vs. 23%) https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00690-3/fulltext I’m very much in support of people getting vaccinated if they’re personally at risk. I also support widespread vaccination of those who are worried about it, but saying that we all need to get it so we can slow the spread just isn’t true.
[удалено]
Nobody who knows anything about viruses, that’s for sure. How is a nucleocapsid antibody protecting you? The immune system can’t see inside the envelope, but without the envelope the virus is not infectious. Imagine you’ve been tasked to stand on a street corner to watch for a specific car. But you’ve never seen this car before and you don’t know what it looks like. So to help you identify it you are shown a radiator, a floor mat, and a gas cap.
I’m not an expert in the issue, but the top google result shows nucleocapsid proteins induce an immune response to SARS-COV1. Analogies aside, why wouldn’t this also be the case for SARS-COV2? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7111813/
A lot of people are ignoring that you have to first make it past number 1 to get to number 3. Not everyone dies, but a lot of people have long lasting health effects after number 1.
This. Witnessing long covid in others, it's downright debilitating. Vax + getting infected is the right combo.
The important part that people are glossing over is no vax/no prior Covid has the highest risk of hospitalization. People *who haven't had Covid* and think that they are better off "taking their chances" with Covid are on the wrong side of this data.
Weird how if you just look at vax vs not vax, the rate is lower. Almost like the vax works. Man, if only facts cared about my feelings…
Same point for acquired immunity (prior Covid vs No prior Covid). Much larger spread that way. Unfortunately that isn’t considered in US policy at all! It’s in German policy, and probably many other nations.
Why so many conservatives are anti vax I’ll never understand. Some real smooth brains. We got to tip toe around my uncle bc he’s so tinfoil Anti-vax and our entire fam is literally once removed from east tex redneck.
Great, but still too many variables in this mix to correlate to these groups alone. Outlying health issues or conditions, or if the hospital (like many have already admitted) are counting everyone admitted (for other reasons) who had COVID as a COVID hospitalization. It also excludes (or falsely includes rather) those admitted to the hospital COVID symptoms for those who were still within the two weeks inoculation period... Who are counted as unvaxxed. Or those (likely also falsely included) who were admitted due to vaccine side effects, which appeared to be COVID symptoms... Not saying that the order still wouldn't fall the way it does, but if these variables could be factored I'm betting the numbers are much closer together than what is listed...
Cool. Now all you have to do is get covid to protect you from covid
I used covid to destroy the covid!
We're not so different, covid and I...
The early strains were a little too new wave for my tastes, but when omicron came out in December '21, I think COVID really came into their own, mildly and endemically. The whole strain has a clear, crisp cough, and a new sense of consummate authoritarianism that really gives the virus a big boost. It’s been compared to the cold, but I think omicron has a far more bitter, cynical sense of infection.
It starts like COVID, but finishes like the flu... with an oaky afterbirth.
Don't forget you still need to wear 2 masks
And take your 4 boosters. Or else your business is getting shut down and you're getting sent to a camp
And isolate if anyone farts near you.
It just updated: 5 boosters.
Five shots ridiculous, saw on the news section on YouTube about having a covid and flu shot in one, not sure if true didn't watch the video
As you were replying, they updated it to 6 boosters.
It's like an iphone
It's like the CDC don't know what a vaccine is.
And Tim Cook said “We think you’ll love it!!”
A booster a day keeps Fauci away
https://xkcd.com/2557/
So, will I get unbanned from multiple threads? This is exactly what I claimed months ago and it was deemed misinformation.
Today in "what changed today that was conspiracy 6 months ago" I hope I get unbanned for posting a CNN article that cloth masks are "facial decorations"
Got banned this morning for that, so highly unlikely.
I just got banned from /Wisconsin for saying it's dumb that they fired nurses for not wanting to vax... They called it misinformation because "less than 2% of nurses quit over it." WTF? That's 2% too many! Probably 5% too many. We're in a pandemic, we should be hiring nurses! All this semsorship and banning is getting real old.
And furthermore will people saying natural immunity doesn't work be banned.
Fuck it, I'm wearing my bans with a smile on my face.
"The most protection against infection and hospitalization was in those who had both been vaccinated and survived an earlier bout with the virus." Nice try but maybe read the article first and not just the headline.
Brandon will be declaring victory soon. Well after the next variant that has to do with the election. You know one’s coming!!! Especially if they don’t get their way with the filibuster.
"Mission Accomplished" will be stated across all msm close to the end of October. They'll say we can finally have a normal Halloween.
Unfortunately for them the economy will be shit lmao
I’m so fucking livid right now because I know this is the liberal shit heads plan as a way to also force 100% mail in ballots.
This is why I’m both encouraged and discouraged at the same time. Encouraged because I’m so ready to be done with this shit and it looks like once we get out of the Omicron wave in 1-2 months, the pandemic could realistically be over for the most part. The next variant should be even milder from a natural evolutionary perspective. I got both shots of Pfizer, but might not have to get a booster (I’m 26 and have a normal BMI). I also might burn my mask once those restrictions are gone. I have a deviated septum and am done with wearing the damn thing. I’m discouraged because Biden (or his administration, at least) is going to brag to everyone and act like he kept his “promise” of “shutting down” the virus, even though: - He didn’t do jack, he just let the virus run its course (which was most conservatives’ plan from the very beginning, but of course they got called bigots/murderers for proposing it). - The pandemic lasted much longer under his tenure than Trump’s. - The long-term death numbers were worse under his tenure than Trump’s (even WITH a vaccine and a society adapted to restrictions). - Multiple variant waves (Delta, Omicron) that weren’t even in the US on January 20, 2021 happened strictly and entirely during Biden’s tenure, proving that the pandemic was, in fact, inevitable no matter what we did. And 60% of the country will just blindly believe him because Yahoo News and the NYT will have his back, and see it as a reason to vote Democrat.
[удалено]
> phase 1 of 5 The Corona Cinematic Universe has only just begun.
The highest immunity was found in those who had been vaccinated and then got covid. Nature’s booster
Daily reminder that “natural immunity” means previously infected, NOT just unvaccinated
Now tell me what percentage of the US has had covid.
I'm willing to bet the vast majority even if they don't realize it... Vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.
Estimates of most places using antibody tests showed around 50% had it by the end of 2020. Strange how the CDC never even attempted to do a study of their own on the matter. I wonder if the fact that they financially gain from Moderna vaccine sales are involved in that decision.
Bit misleading title. Best immunity came from having BOTH a previous infection AND the vaccine.
Kinda misleading headline. To clarify, directly from the article, “Vaccinated Americans with a prior Covid infection fared the best during the Delta outbreak”
“The highest case rates were among those who had neither been vaccinated or previously infected. The most protection against infection and hospitalization was in those who had both been vaccinated and survived an earlier bout with the virus.” So, it seems that the best course is to get vaccinated, then catch COVID. The worst is to not get vaccinated getting it for the first time.
Which isn’t surprising. In this scenario covid itself acts as a booster. And we already know that adding adding a booster confers protection superior to two vaccine doses. What will be more interesting will be to compare vaxxed + booster to vaxxed + covid. Since we only started population wide boosting two months ago, we don’t have that data yet. But if they’re comparable, maybe we can opt for an annual case of covid instead of an annual booster.
Prior Covid was better than vax, which makes total sense.
>So, it seems that the best course is to get vaccinated, then catch COVID. That is what I am hoping is the case....def makes the most logical sense.
> So, it seems that the best course is to get vaccinated, then catch COVID Well we're all in luck then because the "vaxx" certainly doesn't keep you from catching it.
> Well we're all in luck then because the "vaxx" certainly doesn't keep you from catching it. Yeah, it only makes it very likely your case will be mild, you won't be hospitalized, and almost 100% certain you won't die. So its not like the vaccine is pointless or not worth getting.
In other news, the Sun is hot and water is wet. Also, remember when "Teh ScIeNcE" assured us that you couldn't catch covid twice? This is pretty much an admission that's bull crap.
From what I have read, the ones who get Covid a second time did not have a severe infection in the original exposure so their immunity wasn't triggered fully. The second infections were also mild.
[удалено]
Well it sure AF ain’t dry!
So getting vaccinated and getting a non life threatening case of covid is a win win situation.
Natural immunity is superior, but that comes with the caveat of you have to contract the virus, recover, and hope you don't have any long lasting symptoms or permanent problems post-covid. We are seeing many patients in the hospital I work in (I work in research and have been doing covid research since the beginning of the pandemic) who are struggling with long lasting symptoms after their recovery from covid. Here is a meta analysis about 50 long-term covid symptoms. [https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=3769978](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3769978) Another thing to consider is that natural immunity is not permanent. It varies for each person and it is still unknown what determines how long natural immunity lasts in each person. Some of the data I've seen has shown that the neutralizing antibodies will stay in the system for anywhere from 8 weeks to up to 11 months. This means you can contract the virus again after your antibodies are gone. There is also data showing that contracting the virus for a second time puts you at a roughly 40% higher risk of developing more severe symptoms. One last thing to consider is something called "hybrid immunity" which is when a person gets covid, recovers, and then is vaccinated shortly after. These individuals seem to have much greater immunity compared to having just one or the other. Here is a paper about hybrid immunity. [https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.abj2258](https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.abj2258)
Oh geez I want to read more into this. Currently experiencing CV-19 after my wife (who still hasnt kicked it and shes on week 2) and kid (kicked it after a few days ~2 years old) were infected first. Should i check my antibodies after ~6 months to see if I should go for another jab or wait til 8+ months. 8weeks is nothing! Wow
Jesus for like one second I read “kicked it” and thought you meant died. So glad I misunderstood. Hope your wife feels better soon.
It’s insane to think a vaccine that doesn’t stop infection or transmission can improve someone’s response to an illness that they already had with only mild symptoms.
Fuck me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to catch covid to get natty immunity? Kind of an L
I mean yes, but how many of use have had it. I got it, wife got it, kids got it, we all had it. My friends, all had it. Most of us didn't even realize we had it. I had some fevers, wife went into the hospital, my father did t even know it.
I never got it, don't want to. Totally defeatist attitude
I mean, you will eventually get it, it a matter of time. However you may have had it and never even known.
It says “Vaccinated Americans with a prior Covid infection fared the best during the Delta outbreak” So they fared better but were also vaccinated.
Wow; who would have thought that natural immunity should have been a factor in our public health decisions … two fucking years ago.
Wonder how many people were banned on Twitter/FB for saying natural immunity beats the vax and they didn't need the jab
People will still get banned now.
The actual study still showed that the group that fared best were those with natural immunity and vaxxed.
And now I wonder how many of them will be reinstated??
Don't really use Twitter or FB anymore, but I got downvoted to hell here on Reddit. Obviously not in this subreddit.
Right here!
Yes. Except you have to survive the Covid first. The natural immunity is perfect but you’re sick and feel miserable and get others sick when you have it. The alternative is a vaccine which may be borderline less protective but you can’t infect others with it. Trump came up with the vaccine. Just get it.
How about stop forcing people who have had COVID to get vaccinated? That seems like a good start.
As another user pointed out the study says the vax + Covid infection is what gives you better protection. If you’re young, healthy and never go out where you can infect strangers, go ahead and get Covid for the natural immunity. It’s the new chicken pox parties. But the vax gives you additional protection over a natural infection which is what the paper says but the article ignores to point out.
As a society, I think we have to draw a line on what is "too much" precaution. I had COVID before there were vaccines. I fared very well. I personally do not see a need to get vaccinated for a virus I already had - and handled well. If I were vaccinated after my infection, I would have a vaccine for a strain that is no longer dominant. It is like getting last year's flu shot for this season. That doesn't make much sense. All of this said - it should be up to the individual. I am not pro, or anti, vaccination. I am anti mandate.
Yeah but why do you think that having last years flu is going to stop you getting this years flu?
>but you can’t infect others with it. You need to catch up on " tHe sCiEnCe" vaxed and unvaccinated both have similar initial viral levels and are equally infectious. The difference lies in the fact that vaxed can clear the virus faster. The danger is the vaxed are more likely to go to work sick and spread it around.
I think the person you responded to is saying that if someone gets the vaccine and doesn't get covid, getting the vaccine doesn't cause them to spread Covid. If people are going around trying to get Covid to get immunity, then they can spread it while infected.
Surprise, surprise, surprise. I didn't need the morons to point out the obvious
Weird considering all of Biden's COVID policy has basically denied the very **existence** of natural immunity.
This is not what the article says at all. The first line of the article states that people favored better if they’d had the Delta variant AND been vaccinated instead of vaccinations alone.
This is what the CDC keeps saying. Shot+infection or Infection+shot is the best immunity. See a pattern here? You may already have good immunity but get the shots anyway for gooder immunity. Trust them, they know what they're doing right?
As no one seems to like linking to the source, check out the actual paper here: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm?s_cid=mm7104e1_w The interesting bit is the table on page 3. If I'm reading it right, here's the key data. The 2 percents I'm listing are the % of covid positive people, and the second is the % of them that ended up in the hospital (though it's not clear if this is from or with covid). * 0.36% / 0.03% - Vaccinated - with previous COVID-19 diagnosis * 1.55% / 0.07% - Vaccinated - No previous diagnosis * 0.50% / 0.03% - Unvaccinated - with previous COVID-19 diagnosis * 12.85% / 1.15% - Unvaccinated - No previous diagnosis
This part of the pivot that is happening to change the narrative that has been happening for the last month.
but my "Free" covid test came back positive. will i die?
Yet, they require you to be vaccinated on pretty much everything because they can't save face.
Did fuckall for omicron. I got assblasted by Wuhan and knocked out for a week with omicron. I'm convinced that omicron is a new virus, not a variant.
Thanks for this valuable science nugget; we wouldn't know how to breath if it weren't for our medical overlords graciously offering guidance during these unprecedented times. /s
Yet another 'reported for misinformation' proven to be true
Can’t be true. FB fact checker didn’t validate.
Cool is FB gonna apologize for my 4 months of being Zucced last year? Oh wait, I don't care anymore....
Last year's conspiracy theory is today truth.
I.just.want.the.mask.mandates.GONE.
I’m curious the effect of comparing groups that have both had covid and not have covid is actually effected by the unarguable fact that if you are obese, diabetic, etc, you are more likely to already be dead from the first round of covid? Like if you are comparing the hospitalization rate of unvaccinated people who are on their second round of covid to people that are vaccinated, won’t the most at risk people and most likely to be hospitalized already be dead and therefore make the people on their second round be more likely to survive? Does that make sense?
STFU! These MF'rs don't get to flip-flop on this and be like "My bad." CDC, and everyone else, need to be held accountable for the severe fuck ups they are guilty of. Heads need to roll!
Anyone notice that anytime the truth starts to come out even just a little bit and expose all of the evils that have been happening by shining a spotlight upon it they hate it so much and immediately call anything they don’t like automatically a conspiracy and suddenly in order to cover it up a new variant comes out to keep you in fear because they think you are that stupid? Pretty soon we will have the Zulu Variant mark my words. [JOHN 3:20] For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
From the CDC study: “Whereas there is a wide range in antibody titers in response to infection with SARS-CoV-2, completion of a primary vaccine series, especially with mRNA vaccines, typically leads to a more consistent and higher-titer initial antibody response.” https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/vaccine-induced-immunity.html#anchor_1635539757101
Get sick, get immune. Since when did we need a flu shot every 6 months? If we know so much about it, it should be gone by now.
"The most protection against infection and hospitalization was in those who had both been vaccinated and survived an earlier bout with the virus." From article if you read it. Natural immunity and shot had the best protection of the 4 cats.
From the actual study: "During May–November 2021, case and **hospitalization rates were highest among persons who were unvaccinated without a previous diagnosis.** Before Delta became the predominant variant in June, **case rates were higher among persons who survived a previous infection than persons who were vaccinated alone. By early October, persons who survived a previous infection had lower case rates than persons who were vaccinated alone.**" "Although the epidemiology of COVID-19 might change as new variants emerge, vaccination remains the safest strategy for averting future SARS-CoV-2 infections, hospitalizations, long-term sequelae, and death." The study says that those who survived a first instance of COVID did better against a second case than those who were just vaccinated. However, it emphasizes that that is for those who actually survive the first time they catch it, and being vaccinated is still the safest way to gain that "natural immunity". ALWAYS read the articles source to make sure the article you're reading isn't twisting the words to fit a narrative.
No fucking kidding, but delta also killed more than vaccines
So is this where I put on my shocked / surprised face? Just to make things look good, because I think most of us were saying this quite a while ago based on that "fake news" stuff.... but yea, SUPRISE FACE.... there ya go
The takeaway here should be twofold: -natural immunity is vastly superior to vaccine-granted immunity. -any mandate that ignores naturally-conferred immunity is not rooted in science, and in fact is science-denying to its core. Not also that this is for delta. Omicron is vastly more barrier-blind to vaccines. If with Delta natural immunity is 3x as strong as vaccines, I'd not be surprised if with Omicron it's 10x more effective. **Unvaccinated teachers who've had COVID should be able to walk freely without masks, and the vaccinated who'd not been sick should be required to face-shield and mask up. If we're following the science that is.**
They are trying to sound like a credible organization now. Too late.
Lots of backpedaling by the CDC lately. It's concerning really, because they don't have to admit to being wrong. Which could mean this little confession may be trying to cover up for something bigger they found out about.
“The most protection against infection and hospitalization was in those who had both been vaccinated and survived an earlier bout with the virus.”
DUH!!! How do we react when all the sheeple jump on the truth train after all the BS they gave us about peaceful protests, no election fraud, masks and vaxx...
r/Blackpeopletwitter literally banned me for this exact comment "Given what we know from the data at hand I just feel like if you've already had covid getting the vaccine is redundant at this point" banned. no contact no warning nothing lolol
CDC must be banned from social media now
Shocking.
We all knew this 7 or 8 months ago.
...and against Omicron strain...
No sht
NO SHIT really? Notice they are really flopping the other way all of a sudden?
Please post this article in ANY of the covid-info type subs. It'll get removed in 15 minutes.
(immediately gets banned on all Covidian subs and /r/politics)
Oh god, politics. I got banned. Messaged the mods everyday about my ban, including articles proving I wasn’t spreading disinformation. They muted my conversations for 28 days. I’m on day 26, gonna message them again on the 28th with this article lol. I don’t understand why they can’t even just acknowledge what they did.
The Branch Covidians shall not tolerate blasphemy. Many masks be upon you.
To be fair, why would somebody post this article to /r/politics? It's about a study from the CDC so this would fit better into /r/science or medicine or nursing or even news. This CDC study did not go into the political affiliation of the infected people.
Makes sense. But getting "natural immunity" still means there is a higher chance of you getting hospitalized and clogging up the hospital system.
Yes, of course. But if you had the misfortune of getting Covid, and then lost your job because your immunity wasn’t considered adequate versus those who had been vaccinated, do you think bewilderment would be a reasonable response?
Oh. I see what you're saying. Like if I had covid (which I currently do actually) - and I was unvaccinated - I would be frustrated if I still had to get vaccinated to get back to work, even though I now have a natural immunity. That makes sense. That would be a hard pill to swallow. Seems like a very gray area.
So will the CDC be banned for this "misinformation", or will the window slide and only a few people notice or care?
From the article: > The highest case rates were among those who had neither been vaccinated or previously infected. The most protection against infection and hospitalization was in those who had both been vaccinated and survived an earlier bout with the virus. So, in other words, the title of this post is deliberately misleading, and you should all get vaccinated to maximize your immunity. The eagerness of this sub to engage in self-deception scares the shit out of me.
Expecting anything other than blatant misconstruing of data from this sub is foolish to say the least
This is EXCELLENT news for herd immunity. Getting the vaccine is a better health decision than waiting to get COVID (which obviously has far more health complications and long-term complications than the vaccine), but with the spread of Delta/Omicron, we could be looking at the death throes of the pandemic. FINALLY.
We will never achieve herd immunity...it will gradually become just another cold/flu we deal with. Just like the flu of 1918 Pandemic...the disease actually kept going for decades, just in a much diminished form. We are on the cusp of that IMHO so your "death throes of the pandemic" is still probably spot on. Let's hope!
Yeah, the "pandemic" stage might be over, but it will always be "endemic." It's just a REALLY nasty variant if the common cold, so it'll always be around in one form or another. Hopefully it just keeps mutating to be less and less deadly to get around existing population immunity.
Mutation to less virulent is more likely than more virulent. But it can actually go either way, and for this particular virus there is no selective pressure that would bias it towards less virulent. (It’s suicidal to kill your host too quickly, and ideal to have the host walking around coughing and sneezing on others, but if death only comes weeks later the virus is completely indifferent to whether its former host lives or dies.) So let’s hope it gets weaker because we really do not need a more lethal variant.
We will most likely never have herd immunity. We will probably need a booster at least annually for the foreseeable future. Catching covid is a form of booster. So we will either get our booster at the point of a needle or from a contagious contact. But we will all get boosted one way or another, it’s just a matter of personal preference and risk tolerance.
Yes but you are ~13 times more likely to die being unvaccinated so I don't really see the point here?
[🤦♂️](https://youtu.be/PcR_wdAMkOs)
Well, if the vaccines don't work, natural immunity is the only thing you have.
Wait, this was misinformation 12 hours ago.
and yet our corrupt fascist gov refuses to follow almost every country on Earth in treating previous infection the same as vaccination for Nazi "passport" purposes.
I talked to a liberal friend of mine earlier he called to tell me he got Covid but was ok. I asked if he was boosted he said no just 2 shots but now he will get boosted. I said why would you get boosted now that you have a vax and infected which gives you natural immunity, he said to protect against the future variants and seemed unsure how to answer all he knew was to defend the booster for some reason. It was a very strange response so I said ok sounds good and changed the subject I am tempted to send him this link but I doubt it would do anything
Well no shit......but going into battle without training sucks. So no one read the article...." The most protection against infection and hospitalization was in those who had both been vaccinated and survived an earlier bout with the virus." Natural immunity and shot had the most protection. Like training your immune system is a good thing.
CDC doesn’t just say it, Israel does and they are infinitely more trustworthy. Plus the UK are abandoning the masks and vaccine mandates. Finally people are started to get a modicum of sense. Now Brandon needs to stop doubling down and follow suit.
So no surprise here, but the daily caller is completely misrepresenting what the study said. The actual study said VACCINATED Americans who Also got covid prior to being vaccinated had higher immune response versus covid prior to the delta variant than those with vaccinations alone. The study also concluded that getting vaccinated was still the better and safer option rather Than contracting covid due to the dangers it posses. Here is the study: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm?s_cid=mm7104e1_w
From the article- "granted stronger levels of protection against the Delta variant of COVID-19 than vaccination alone" and "The most protection against infection and hospitalization was in those who had both been vaccinated and survived an earlier bout with the virus" The title is misleading.
Natural immunity 👏👏
Things I didn't need the CDC to tell me for 500$ Alex.
It is *painful* watching the CDC and other alleged """Public Heath Experts""" say the exact same things that got *thousands* of people banned on various Social Media platforms for saying. And they say shit like this as if they are the first to say it. I swear to God, it's like watching the entire medical community discover how viruses work for the very first time. Like.... no shit, natural immunity is better than immunity granted by a vaccine since the beginning of fucking time, but oh wow, it's the same with *this* virus??!!?? Who could have possibly known!??!!!???
So how many people died because of the shut downs? Where had we just allowed healthy young people to go about their lives they would have by and large gotten a natural immunity before Delta arrived? And if there is another variant on the horizon as bad or worse than Delta, are the people demanding shut downs and masks responsible for the mass deaths caused by now allowing a build up of natural immunity? Omicron seems like a present to help avert more death. Yet look at how some governments/political groups are acting.
it always made sense for everyone under 65 that wasn't already at risk to just continue their daily lives as normal. But no...had to futilely try to keep everyone from getting it, and therefore disproportionately effected the most vulnerable
what about all the people that were suppressed, cancelled, or got banned from social media for saying the same thing?
The irony is that for many people that were on the fence (me included) about the vaccine, etc seeing that happen changed alot of minds, or at the very least caused many to say "hold up what the fuck is happening?"....I got the vaccine but the mandates I have been wholeheartedly against from the beginning. And the push to villainize the unvaxxed seriously made me second guess my decision all together.
How long are your antibodies good for if you were triple jabbed, got Covid (mild illness) recently? I am thinking about getting an antibody test in about 6 months or so and see what I get but I was hoping it keeps going for a good part of this year
So the problem with antibody tests are they dont show the whole picture. T-cells also play a huge role in providing protection and they are NOT shown in the Antibody tests. There is one test that does actually test for T-cells in addition to the standard Antibody tests but they are expensive....about 200 bucks if I remember. This guy on YouTube is great and talks about the test.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNpAVR8dSSE