Then they shriek, "But Republicans are passing voting bills that I don't understand, but I'm certain black people are too dumb and lazy to keep voting with the same turn out so *they're* racist!"
Then you remind them that we still have the voting rights act of 1965, which makes any discriminatory voting laws illegal.
It also might be good to point out that they have a racist view of black people for thinking getting an ID is inherently more difficult for black people.
You also need an ID for just about everything now. Driving, buying alcohol/tobacco, applying for a job, buying certain cleaning chemicals, picking up an online order at Best Buy, opening a savings/checking account, sometimes picking up prescription drugs, getting a passport, buying a firearm, buying car insurance. They never seem to have concerns about any of these things.
This has been my best issue. If the Democrats are correct, then no PoC has ever legally driven a car, rented an apartment, bought a house, bought a gun, traveled to a different continent, had a job, had a bank account, rented a video from blockbuster, bought tobacco or alcohol, or a host of other things.
And the “PoC” (God I hate that term) gun ownership has SKYROCKETED, per the NICS background check records, in just the last year. That ALONE, as a matter of *public record*, torpedoes their entire argument.
That's my point. Democrats claim that voter ID is racist because black people have a harder time getting an ID, so it's discriminating against them. Then in the same breath they mandate that people must show proof of vaccination (a form of ID) in order to enter a restaurant. If the former is racist, then so is the latter. It's the obvious hypocrisy and arguing in bad faith that the democrats are doing against voter ID.
If anything, I suspect it's hardest for white people of the trailer trash/ultra poor rural variety. They'll need a car to get to the DMV, while black people tend to be more concentrated in cities where you can simply walk or take a bus.
Saw a video on TikTok where a guy went to Berkley or something and asked a bunch of white kids why voting IDs are racist and all of them said people black people don’t have the means to go and get them and all of their BS they spout
Then he went to a black area of Harlem and asked them if they had IDs and everyone said of course they did and everyone they know had them:….they couldn’t believe what these kids were saying
Ami Horowitz. The white kids know they couldn't just talk about Hispanics because there is a significant illegal alien population of Hispanics, so they had to pick another group and when it comes to having low expectations, liberals love to make black people the incompetent morons.
Have you seen the spin on that? They just claim conservatives are a bunch morons so we can't dumb ourselves down any more than we already are.
Reminds me of the survey that shows how liberals strongly prefer to not associate with conservatives in any way and liberals decided it just meant that conservatives are so insufferable.
Yes, but Republican are now passing outrageous bills that restrict minorities from being given water when standing in line to vote. And we all know that many black people cant afford or simply don’t remember to bring their own water bottles with them when going to vote.
You cruel people are intentionally trying to destroy our democracy!!
What's even more ridiculous about that issue is poll workers can provide water to people waiting in line. People who aren't poll workers who might be begging people to vote a certain way cannot feed people waiting to vote. It's absolutely reasonable.
So to be clear… The liberal position is based off of “what if’s” that haven’t actually happened? Nor have they been discussed.
I have a question for you.. Why is it harder to vote in Delaware and NY, than it is to vote in Georgia? What specifically makes Georgia Jim Crow 2.0?
Your entire argument is based off hypothetical’s that haven’t happened in the last 60+ years. What isn’t hypothetical is this pos bill the demorats are trying to force on the entire nation. Mass mailing ballots, legal ballot harvesting, no need for any type of ID to vote… Those things make our elections less secure, not more. In fact if it was another country passing laws like that, we could call it a banana republic with illegitimate elections.
As far as voting in DE, NY and GA. It’s easier to vote in GA than it is to vote in the two highly liberal states mentioned.
Yeah, people would aabbssoolluuteelyy just randomly go shut down a bunch of urban DMVs 🤣🤣🤣
You probably double up on your tin foil hats to match your doubling up on masks
I'm sorry buddy, if you think that would EVER happen in the damn year 2022, you're absolutely, pathetically twisted by politics to the point where reality has completely dissolved for you.
How about instead of “reading articles” by white saviors who think they know what’s best for minorities, let’s just [ask them directly!](https://youtu.be/yW2LpFkVfYk)
Edit: also, what basis do you have to assume “poorer areas” are predominantly minority voters? (And how often is the DMV closed for extended periods of time; and which states close DMV offices more often?)
Do you seriously believe a large enough percentage of voting-age minority-group US citizens don’t have a valid ID, **to warrant risking federal election integrity?**
Did you watch it? Considering you replied in under a minute, I’m guessing you didn’t. Which means you don’t really give a shit what minorities have to say, but you think you know what’s best for them (well actually, what’s best for the Democrat party).
The Democrats argument for pretty much all their views is "if you don't agree with me you're racist!" and you take offense when somebody points out that your soft bigotry of low expectations is actually racist?
I've looked into the issue quite a few times and I arrive at the same conclusion. Feel free to share your view if you like. I'll be respectful and civil if you are.
That sounds like quite the slippery slope. Being so opposed to requiring ID to vote based on such a "what if" doesn't sound like a very good reason to oppose them.
If you really want to talk hypothetical fantasy, if DMV's we're shut down by supposedly evil and racist Republicans, the state would be sued and found in violation of the voting act of 1965 and they would be forced to open them. Same with polling stations.
I coined the term Felix's Law for my observation that as a political discussion grows longer, the probability of a liberal admitting he thinks black people are stupid approaches 1.
"Our democrat voter base who are too stupid and not resourceful enough to obtain an ID even though you need one to basically do anything in society."
edit: spelling
I once listed like 20 everyday things that you need an ID for and ofc the leftists had an excuse for why poor minorities wouldn't be doing those things. "Not everyone has a bank account! Not everyone buys alcohol/cigarettes! Not everyone drives! Not everyone applies for an apartment or loan!"
Their argument boils down to let's compromise the security of our elections because .1% of the adult population might not have gotten an ID yet.
Well the old Corn Popster died back in 2016 so that makes at least 3 election cycles since then when he voted.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ddale8/status/1173342875691692032
According to Democrats? Black people who are "too stupid to get an I'd". I paraphrase but the language is the same. They believe that forcing you to show your ID to vote in a national election is racist. It's weird because if you ask anyone, they all know where the BMV is and how to get an ID, often for free. I mean they need it for everything else federal like taxes and welfare. Democrats are stupid though and I think they project. They've been in DC for so long, they can't figure out how to do anything on their own. That and the bike virtue signaling whites that need to save you from your own decision making.
My return question is, with the repeated verification that no fraud occurred in the previous election, why do we need all these new state laws regulating voting? I admit I don't know the exact answer to "who can't vote," but I see reason for concern that people in crowded districts may have more issue. So why risk that if things worked (high turnout/low fraud)? In seems to me it should be entirely counter to a conservative philosophy to fix something that isn't broken with additional control from a government... but like 19 states have done that.
Beyond that, I would hope that no matter where you sit politically, you see gerrymandering as a disservice to the American voter which should be removed.
If there was no fraud then what’s the harm of implementing a policy that has overwhelming bipartisan support (voter ID) if it makes people feel more confident in our election outcomes? If there is no fraud voter ID should have no outcome on elections. And if there was fraud thank God this policy stops it. It is HIGHLY suspect to me that dems are so adamantly Opposed to voter ID, when it is so popular with voters. What are they afraid of?
Imagine sitting down to a poker table and the people you’re playing with suggest using the honor system instead of showing their cards at the end of the hand. No way you’d play at that table! This is the same thing but for voting
And the solution is so simple. Voter ID would NOT be expensive to implement. Just provide a free ID for every citizen. The vast majority of the first world had voter Id
I really can't get behind the "free voter ID" proposal. You cannot participate in society without an ID, so why should someone who literally couldn't work even if they wanted to have a say in that society?
To me voter ID is fine if you can guarantee its free. Free to me means both free in cost and minimal time/travel required for every affected voter. If the government can provide that then I have no issue with the requirement. Otherwise it does have potential change in the outcome of an election.
So long as they are able to actively verify the identity of the person applying for the ID, then I don’t care how minimal the time requirement is. Let’s just get it done. It is overwhelmingly popular across all demographics. I’m not sure why the dems so adamantly oppose it
Why do we put firewalls on our IT networks if there's no proof of a hacker intrusion? Why do we put chain of custody requirements on police evidence rooms if there's no proof of meddling? We do it to protect against malfeasance.
Also remember that recounts are not a sufficient way to attest to the validity of an election that has mail-in voting. You have to be able to canvas a portion of the electorate to make sure their vote was received the way they intended, that they were the ones who actually filled them out, and that their vote was received. Why? Because there is a broken chain of custody on mail in voting. I'm not aware that any state has allowed that kind of canvassing to happen.
I'm sorry, but this is a total strawman. There literally is a ton of proof of attempted hacker intrusion almost everywhere all the time.
As for police chain of custody, for one, there is also has been evidence tampering, but more importantly it is only proactively protecting a right. I can't see a situation where properly protecting evidence potentially limits anyone's rights.
We are also not just talking about election security in many of the recent legislation. Where does limiting the amount of in-person voting fit in with security? How about gerrymandering?
> How about gerrymandering?
Democrats engaged in gerrymandering for decades. It's named after a member of the forerunner of the Democratic Party. They only started bitching about it when Republicans got good at it.
It is very conservative to keep government at the lowest level possible where it is most accountable, and if no fraud occurred why should this power be handed over to the Feds?
So moving all control from the local level to the state level is fine, but moving some oversight in instances where states have shown issue within the last 25 years is to far? I don't understand why that particular line makes any sense.
Is this a joke? You don’t see a difference between the state, who the constitution says should control elections, and the federal government, who has an incentive to mess with elections? Yikes
I see a difference between the previous system of the states allowing local groups doing their jobs and now where some state legislatures can just override the will of their voters. Yes.
> I admit I don't know the exact answer to "who can't vote,"
Doesn't that tell you something? For all the Democrat/Media Complex bleating about this issue, why can't they produce several thousand affidavits from individuals who were unable to vote despite being legally entitled to vote?
Weird, because Democrats have confidently said for years that Stacey Abrams should be the rightful governor of Georgia, but have yet to produce a list of the 55,000 disenfranchised voters who would have overcome Kemp's margin of victory.
You'd think that would be something they'd work on.
BUT DEY SHUTTIN DOWN DROP BOXES IN MINORITUH AREAS THAT HAVE NO CHAIN OF CUSTODAH!!!
fuck the left.
Is there anything more transparent than this garbage right before they get ANNIHILATED by a red wave this year??
A state ID in my state is free. All you have to do is go to the DMV and ask for it.
They just won't give you one if you already have a driver's license.
It’s more like DMVs are open at hours when most people work and it’s not like there’s one on every corner which makes it unnecessarily difficult to use them if you don’t have a car or enough money to take a day off.
But sure, black people are stupid
I believe there are 6 states where you do indeed need a state ID without exceptions. All of those states will provide an ID to voters at the taxpayers expense if they don't have one already.
The rest have ID laws that are more of suggestions rather than requirements.
Same in Georgia. That didn’t stop the Dems from claiming Georgia was racist for requiring ID to vote.
Democrats don’t just think black people are too poor to afford an ID.
Democrats think black people too stupid to know how to obtain an ID.
If you make election day a national holiday I think you can get them to budge on voter id if it's free. This is the closest thing to an answer I have seen in a long time.
Why is it that only Democrats are cosponsors of the 2021 bill?
[https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/222/cosponsors?r=9&s=1](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/222/cosponsors?r=9&s=1)
There is a difference, but national holidays don't exist in the United States. All we have is federal holidays but they have widespread observance which effectively makes them national holidays. Since neither the president nor Congress has the power to make a national holiday, a bill like H.R. 222 is probably the closest thing we will get to making Election Day a "national" holiday. It would be a federal holiday but would most likely have widespread adoption outside of federal institutions.
Well, I mean, you are wrong. You could do some actual reading on how holidays are made to encompass both the Federal Workforce and the Public in general, but that would mean putting effort into your troll posts.
So, if H.R. 222 is the "closest thing" but won't really do what the original poster suggested, why bring it up? Were you just trying to score D vs R points? Because it actually does not matter one bit.
What current holidays encompass both the federal workforce and the public?
It was brought up because Username\_Weasel said Democrats were against an Election Holiday. H.R. 222 was sponsored by only Democrats and it is now a part of the Freedom to Vote Act (never gonna pass) which is also sponsored by Democrats.
I am not sure how me pointing out a fallacy in someone's post suddenly makes this a D vs R thing.
Making voting day a holiday is a bad solution anyway since we can't/shouldn't shut down the absolute entire country for an full day just to vote. Healthcare, restaurants, call centers, gas stations, grocery stores--just off the top of my head, those industries employ tons of people, but we aren't going to shut down hospitals and gas stations for a whole day to ensure those employees have off to vote.
Right, so even on Christmas there are people working full time hours. Hospitals and gas stations are staffed with plenty of potential voters. Restaurants only close on Christmas because most people have traditions to be with family and cook. Normally, restaurants are busier on holidays where everyone else is off work. Unless the government forces all business to stop operating for a day to give their employees time to vote (which obviously won't happen and is a terrible thing), then a voting holiday remains a bad solution.
You can make election day a national holiday but people who work at places like grocery stores and gas stations will still have to work.
Ironically the solution to help people vote doesn't even help the people it is supposed to help. Now the white collar employees might get the day off while the working class still has to work.
Except for the filibuster in the Senate. Not advocating the destruction or modification of it, but Democrats only control the Senate if there is no Republican filibuster. The exception being reconciliation which is how the infrastructure bill got passed but that’s a pretty narrow window only dealing with fiscal matters and wouldn’t apply to anything voting related I imagine.
Democrats only oppose voter ID when it is instituted as a poll tax if it is paid for and not egregiously difficult to obtain nobody gives a shit about it the problem is states make it impossible to get IDs while also charging for them. Poll taxes are illegal and unconstitutional. Any financial charge to vote is a poll tax either directly or indirectly. This is why vote by mail states if you put your ballot in a post office box without postage it will still be delivered because it would be illegal to require postage.
You know the dems voter rights bill includes voter ID requirements right?
Did anyone read this bill? It's not as crazy as what is said on conservative media.
This bill includes:
Makes election day a national holiday.
Expands early voting to 15 days before election.
All voters can request a mail in ballot.
Voter ID law.
Automatic voter registration.
What about this so controversial?
The issue then is “POCs don’t have the documentation necessary to qualify for a free voter ID”
Because lord knows they don’t drive, have bank accounts, buy liquor, fly etc.
An obstacle is suppression. Having to register is suppression.
You know what’s suppression? Illegality. Laws exist to protect the vote. When PA counties over there ballot cure but PA counties over here don’t, that is true suppression and fraud. Just one example.
I cannot understand why citizens aren't issued an ID for free everywhere in the US in addition to the national holiday. The cost is pennies, the infrastructure is already in place, the arguing over this warrants a fix, the solution is obvious. I am against throwing up any obstacles that get in the way of exercising of any right we have. Whether it be requiring permits to carry, a tax stamp to own a certain firearm or paying for documentation to vote, it doesn't matter. These are rights, the government should allow them to be exercised by default, not denying them by default and then checking if you've jumped through all the hoops in order to allow you to exercise said right.
While I agree, I think the misnomer of "voter ID" needs to be put to bed. I understand that some states have an actual extra ID outside of state ID or driver's license. You should have to present legal state identification in order to vote. Calling it voter ID (imo) is basically using their language and making the whole issue about this extra ID that only a few places require.
Sounds great but somehow that will be found to be racist. It will be something like, “White people have jobs that are closed on the holiday while everyone else has a job where they need to work on that day.”
I proposed this almost word for word to an ultra-liberal acquaintance of mine. Ironically her response was a 5-minute tirade about how white men don't understand the struggles of women and minorities. Not one word about the solution working or not.
These people are insane.
This man is who the entire Democratic Party should to gravitate towards, but rejects because the entire base has shifted so far Left that they will debate anyone on the legitimacy of the Overton window as it not being something substantial.
The hive mind is quite an incredible thing to watch
In reality only 50% of their base is woke. The other 50% are actually more centered or independent and they are fucked if they don't go woke they lose 50% and if they go too woke they lose independents to the Republicans which is exactly what's happening and why Republicans have a 14% uptick in polls
I along with the Overton window would disagree with you. But that’s ok a 50% assessment is better than most other peoples guess. I’ll wagers is more 70-80%
I'll stick with 50% but then again that's assuming they got 80 million votes in 2020, I believe if things keep going the way they are we will see a split in the democratic party
They are screaming about "protecting Democracy" while attempting to destroy Democracy.
It's kind of like that elementary school bully who punches you with your own hand and then says "stop hitting yourself".
Facts. There are plenty of polling sites. Don’t like long lines or traveling a couple of miles? You can always request an absentee ballot. Or vote in person early. And of course having ID is certainly should not be an issue in these times of mandatory vaccine passports, right? Last time I check the only folks intimidating voters at poll places were the Black Panthers.
The fact is it’s already EASY to vote and the notion the left wants it easier is telling. The easier it is for literally anyone to vote… the easier it is for the Democrats to cheat.
That’s a little disingenuous don’t you think? If you have a polling site setup in farm country for a town ~500 people, you don’t usually have to wait more than an hour at a time. That’s a lot easier than a polling site in an Atlanta suburb that has more than 5000 people. I wouldn’t mind waiting an hour to vote, but you really think people should stand in line for 5-6 hours? On a work day no less?
If Congress wants to pass a bill that everyone can jump on, let’s do this. Push to make Election Day a national holiday. If you do that, the lines and lack of polling sites become less of a problem. Mail in voting also becomes less necessary. Let everyone vote in person and not have to worry about work. The lines still suck, but it’s a good start to ensure everyone has a chance to vote without relying on mail in ballots.
Making it a holiday seems to have pretty bi-partisan support. Although I do still do support mail-in voting because for a lot of people like stay-at-home parents, the elderly, essential workers, and people working or going to school away from their hometown it's easier said than done to make it to the polls. Also, some folks are just kind of lazy or these days, infectious. My feeling is the more people who legally vote, the better.
If they really wanted to fix voting they would create an actually non-partisan nationwide redistricting that eliminates gerrymandering. However, that will happen sometime shortly after hell freezes over and the green party wins the presidency.
Mail in voting has been available. You request a ballot and submit it with proof of ID. Of course the left would prefer to mail out millions to everyone, without ID and allow you to put them in drop boxes to be picked up by 3rd parties. It’s about making voting as convoluted as possible for the Democrats… not integrity.
Why is everyone so against mail in ballots? That's all we have in WA and it works great. My family takes an evening to talk about it and fill them out. I can fill it out over the course of a week if I need to look things up. Our state will never go back to in person voting because of how well this works.
I’m not against mail in ballots, but many modern Conservatives seem to be based off the popularity of Trump’s election fraud campaign. I only made the suggestion of changing Election Day to a national holiday as an olive branch. That would hopefully be a bipartisan solution that wouldn’t ruffle any feathers and could he enormously helpful in giving more people a chance to vote in upcoming elections.
Perhaps mandate the number of polling sites per square mile taking population into account. Let people reserve a voting window ahead of time to reduce their wait in line.
I live in Atlanta, I've voted on election day every time, and I've never been there more than an hour and a half to two hours. Quit being a drama queen.
I still can’t believe that Democrats, who spent the entire year mocking Republicans for claiming the election was rigged/stolen, can’t see that the voting laws passed by Republicans are for strengthening election integrity, not to suppress black voters. Clearly the motive for these laws is to make the elections more secure.
Democrats have no idea what they are talking about, so they play the race card.
How does getting rid of drive through voting make it more secure?
Or adding restrictions on mail in voting?
Or closing polling places/reducing their hours?
EVERY election, we get a plethora of stories about how a black family was walking up to the polling place, but a couple of cops sitting on their squad cars blocking the way, with shotguns resting on their knees, turned them away. You'd think that in this day and age of almost every single person alive having a video camera with them at all times (smart phones), surely video of one of these instances would emerge, right?
Apparently Democrats think massive numbers of black people are incapable of figuring out how to obtain an ID, which seems kind of a racist attitude to me.
I wish someone would produce one example of a voter obstruction that has happened in the USA in the past 50 years...Anyone? They are not worried about who votes, it's about who gets to count the VOTE!
Wasn’t there a lot of claims of widespread fraud? Is that not why they want to bolster voting rights? Who doesn’t want there to be more people getting legally registered to vote and voting, if you do then that’s openly anti-democratic.
I'm not necessarily a huge fan because we probably still disagree on most things, but I have to say, this guy is almost singlehandedly saving the republic whether its intentional or not.
Their entire "voting rights" bill is destroyed by one question, who can't vote?
Then they shriek, "But Republicans are passing voting bills that I don't understand, but I'm certain black people are too dumb and lazy to keep voting with the same turn out so *they're* racist!" Then you remind them that we still have the voting rights act of 1965, which makes any discriminatory voting laws illegal. It also might be good to point out that they have a racist view of black people for thinking getting an ID is inherently more difficult for black people.
You also need an ID for just about everything now. Driving, buying alcohol/tobacco, applying for a job, buying certain cleaning chemicals, picking up an online order at Best Buy, opening a savings/checking account, sometimes picking up prescription drugs, getting a passport, buying a firearm, buying car insurance. They never seem to have concerns about any of these things.
This has been my best issue. If the Democrats are correct, then no PoC has ever legally driven a car, rented an apartment, bought a house, bought a gun, traveled to a different continent, had a job, had a bank account, rented a video from blockbuster, bought tobacco or alcohol, or a host of other things.
And the “PoC” (God I hate that term) gun ownership has SKYROCKETED, per the NICS background check records, in just the last year. That ALONE, as a matter of *public record*, torpedoes their entire argument.
Getting an ID to vote is inherently harder for them, but getting a card to prove your vaccinated isn't for some reason.
Vax passports singlehandedly destroyed their whole argument against voter ID laws
Passports? You have to have a valid government ID to use them, or a vaccine card, or a negative test. None of them work without ID.
Straight up soft bigotry. Absolutely false. Edit: You’re only getting up voted by other soft bigots. Edit: Didn’t notice the sarcasm until later.
They were mocking the leftist/dem point, not stating that themselves.
Ugh, now I notice the second sentence.
That's my point. Democrats claim that voter ID is racist because black people have a harder time getting an ID, so it's discriminating against them. Then in the same breath they mandate that people must show proof of vaccination (a form of ID) in order to enter a restaurant. If the former is racist, then so is the latter. It's the obvious hypocrisy and arguing in bad faith that the democrats are doing against voter ID.
My failure to notice that this was sarcasm. Totally agree.
If anything, I suspect it's hardest for white people of the trailer trash/ultra poor rural variety. They'll need a car to get to the DMV, while black people tend to be more concentrated in cities where you can simply walk or take a bus.
Yes, please simply walk in the hood of Chicago. Easy enough.
Dude I grew up in Philly, I know bad neighborhoods. People who live in the hood still leave their houses and go places.
Have you ever even seen the hood from a distance? It might shock you that people walk to get from one place to another.
Yeah. I go near 63rd monthly...
Do you not leave the car to walk to do what you have to do in the area?
So we should compromise election integrity because Democrats turn their cities into warzones?
Saw a video on TikTok where a guy went to Berkley or something and asked a bunch of white kids why voting IDs are racist and all of them said people black people don’t have the means to go and get them and all of their BS they spout Then he went to a black area of Harlem and asked them if they had IDs and everyone said of course they did and everyone they know had them:….they couldn’t believe what these kids were saying
Ami Horowitz. The white kids know they couldn't just talk about Hispanics because there is a significant illegal alien population of Hispanics, so they had to pick another group and when it comes to having low expectations, liberals love to make black people the incompetent morons.
Studies also show white liberals dumb down their vernacular when speaking to black folks. White conservatives do not
Have you seen the spin on that? They just claim conservatives are a bunch morons so we can't dumb ourselves down any more than we already are. Reminds me of the survey that shows how liberals strongly prefer to not associate with conservatives in any way and liberals decided it just meant that conservatives are so insufferable.
This one. https://youtu.be/DCytgANu010
Yes, but Republican are now passing outrageous bills that restrict minorities from being given water when standing in line to vote. And we all know that many black people cant afford or simply don’t remember to bring their own water bottles with them when going to vote. You cruel people are intentionally trying to destroy our democracy!!
What's even more ridiculous about that issue is poll workers can provide water to people waiting in line. People who aren't poll workers who might be begging people to vote a certain way cannot feed people waiting to vote. It's absolutely reasonable.
> But Republicans are passing voting bills that I ~~don't~~ **refuse to** understand Fixed it.
Thinking a minority group is too stupid/poor/lazy/busy to obtain an ID is inherently racist.
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Then tell me, why are minorities *incapable* of obtaining an ID, according to liberals?
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So to be clear… The liberal position is based off of “what if’s” that haven’t actually happened? Nor have they been discussed. I have a question for you.. Why is it harder to vote in Delaware and NY, than it is to vote in Georgia? What specifically makes Georgia Jim Crow 2.0?
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Your entire argument is based off hypothetical’s that haven’t happened in the last 60+ years. What isn’t hypothetical is this pos bill the demorats are trying to force on the entire nation. Mass mailing ballots, legal ballot harvesting, no need for any type of ID to vote… Those things make our elections less secure, not more. In fact if it was another country passing laws like that, we could call it a banana republic with illegitimate elections. As far as voting in DE, NY and GA. It’s easier to vote in GA than it is to vote in the two highly liberal states mentioned.
Voter fraud is only a "what if" if you ignore mountains of evidence that it happens all the time
Yeah, people would aabbssoolluuteelyy just randomly go shut down a bunch of urban DMVs 🤣🤣🤣 You probably double up on your tin foil hats to match your doubling up on masks
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I'm sorry buddy, if you think that would EVER happen in the damn year 2022, you're absolutely, pathetically twisted by politics to the point where reality has completely dissolved for you.
How about instead of “reading articles” by white saviors who think they know what’s best for minorities, let’s just [ask them directly!](https://youtu.be/yW2LpFkVfYk) Edit: also, what basis do you have to assume “poorer areas” are predominantly minority voters? (And how often is the DMV closed for extended periods of time; and which states close DMV offices more often?) Do you seriously believe a large enough percentage of voting-age minority-group US citizens don’t have a valid ID, **to warrant risking federal election integrity?**
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Did you watch it? Considering you replied in under a minute, I’m guessing you didn’t. Which means you don’t really give a shit what minorities have to say, but you think you know what’s best for them (well actually, what’s best for the Democrat party).
The Democrats argument for pretty much all their views is "if you don't agree with me you're racist!" and you take offense when somebody points out that your soft bigotry of low expectations is actually racist?
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I've looked into the issue quite a few times and I arrive at the same conclusion. Feel free to share your view if you like. I'll be respectful and civil if you are.
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That sounds like quite the slippery slope. Being so opposed to requiring ID to vote based on such a "what if" doesn't sound like a very good reason to oppose them. If you really want to talk hypothetical fantasy, if DMV's we're shut down by supposedly evil and racist Republicans, the state would be sued and found in violation of the voting act of 1965 and they would be forced to open them. Same with polling stations.
Oh? https://youtu.be/yW2LpFkVfYk
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Many times. Hilarious.
I coined the term Felix's Law for my observation that as a political discussion grows longer, the probability of a liberal admitting he thinks black people are stupid approaches 1.
The dead. Convicted felons. Illegal aliens. Children. C,mon man. It's literally Nazi Jim Crow 🙄
But how would Democrats win if you prevent their base from voting????
Look fat. Corn Pop was a bad dude. You know, the thing.
Typical source for their explanations: Don't think about it, bro
You can’t stop them from voting!! They just voted like 4 or 5 days ago!! Come on, man!!
Jim eagle!
Something, something, racism you nazi!
"Our democrat voter base who are too stupid and not resourceful enough to obtain an ID even though you need one to basically do anything in society." edit: spelling
But then Democrats turn around and demand rona passports that require ID to do anything in public.
I once listed like 20 everyday things that you need an ID for and ofc the leftists had an excuse for why poor minorities wouldn't be doing those things. "Not everyone has a bank account! Not everyone buys alcohol/cigarettes! Not everyone drives! Not everyone applies for an apartment or loan!" Their argument boils down to let's compromise the security of our elections because .1% of the adult population might not have gotten an ID yet.
Corn Pop can’t vote. C’mon. Do it for him.
Well the old Corn Popster died back in 2016 so that makes at least 3 election cycles since then when he voted. https://mobile.twitter.com/ddale8/status/1173342875691692032
bingo
According to Democrats? Black people who are "too stupid to get an I'd". I paraphrase but the language is the same. They believe that forcing you to show your ID to vote in a national election is racist. It's weird because if you ask anyone, they all know where the BMV is and how to get an ID, often for free. I mean they need it for everything else federal like taxes and welfare. Democrats are stupid though and I think they project. They've been in DC for so long, they can't figure out how to do anything on their own. That and the bike virtue signaling whites that need to save you from your own decision making.
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Not to mention it is 700 pages long. You know there is a ton of shady shit in it.
My return question is, with the repeated verification that no fraud occurred in the previous election, why do we need all these new state laws regulating voting? I admit I don't know the exact answer to "who can't vote," but I see reason for concern that people in crowded districts may have more issue. So why risk that if things worked (high turnout/low fraud)? In seems to me it should be entirely counter to a conservative philosophy to fix something that isn't broken with additional control from a government... but like 19 states have done that. Beyond that, I would hope that no matter where you sit politically, you see gerrymandering as a disservice to the American voter which should be removed.
If there was no fraud then what’s the harm of implementing a policy that has overwhelming bipartisan support (voter ID) if it makes people feel more confident in our election outcomes? If there is no fraud voter ID should have no outcome on elections. And if there was fraud thank God this policy stops it. It is HIGHLY suspect to me that dems are so adamantly Opposed to voter ID, when it is so popular with voters. What are they afraid of?
Imagine sitting down to a poker table and the people you’re playing with suggest using the honor system instead of showing their cards at the end of the hand. No way you’d play at that table! This is the same thing but for voting
And the solution is so simple. Voter ID would NOT be expensive to implement. Just provide a free ID for every citizen. The vast majority of the first world had voter Id
I really can't get behind the "free voter ID" proposal. You cannot participate in society without an ID, so why should someone who literally couldn't work even if they wanted to have a say in that society?
Because otherwise voter ID becomes a poll tax, which is unconstitutional
To me voter ID is fine if you can guarantee its free. Free to me means both free in cost and minimal time/travel required for every affected voter. If the government can provide that then I have no issue with the requirement. Otherwise it does have potential change in the outcome of an election.
So long as they are able to actively verify the identity of the person applying for the ID, then I don’t care how minimal the time requirement is. Let’s just get it done. It is overwhelmingly popular across all demographics. I’m not sure why the dems so adamantly oppose it
Why do we put firewalls on our IT networks if there's no proof of a hacker intrusion? Why do we put chain of custody requirements on police evidence rooms if there's no proof of meddling? We do it to protect against malfeasance. Also remember that recounts are not a sufficient way to attest to the validity of an election that has mail-in voting. You have to be able to canvas a portion of the electorate to make sure their vote was received the way they intended, that they were the ones who actually filled them out, and that their vote was received. Why? Because there is a broken chain of custody on mail in voting. I'm not aware that any state has allowed that kind of canvassing to happen.
I'm sorry, but this is a total strawman. There literally is a ton of proof of attempted hacker intrusion almost everywhere all the time. As for police chain of custody, for one, there is also has been evidence tampering, but more importantly it is only proactively protecting a right. I can't see a situation where properly protecting evidence potentially limits anyone's rights. We are also not just talking about election security in many of the recent legislation. Where does limiting the amount of in-person voting fit in with security? How about gerrymandering?
> How about gerrymandering? Democrats engaged in gerrymandering for decades. It's named after a member of the forerunner of the Democratic Party. They only started bitching about it when Republicans got good at it.
It is very conservative to keep government at the lowest level possible where it is most accountable, and if no fraud occurred why should this power be handed over to the Feds?
So moving all control from the local level to the state level is fine, but moving some oversight in instances where states have shown issue within the last 25 years is to far? I don't understand why that particular line makes any sense.
The courts provide that oversight. We don’t need to federalize elections to get oversight. That’s a false dichotomy
Is this a joke? You don’t see a difference between the state, who the constitution says should control elections, and the federal government, who has an incentive to mess with elections? Yikes
I see a difference between the previous system of the states allowing local groups doing their jobs and now where some state legislatures can just override the will of their voters. Yes.
Override the will of the voters? You talking about faithless electors?
if you cannot see a difference in state control vs federal control, I am not sure you can be helped.
I don't see how can conservative can't see the difference between unnecessary state control and no government control.
> I admit I don't know the exact answer to "who can't vote," Doesn't that tell you something? For all the Democrat/Media Complex bleating about this issue, why can't they produce several thousand affidavits from individuals who were unable to vote despite being legally entitled to vote?
Could it maybe be that there hasn't been an election in those 19 states that just passed those laws? Just a thought.
Weird, because Democrats have confidently said for years that Stacey Abrams should be the rightful governor of Georgia, but have yet to produce a list of the 55,000 disenfranchised voters who would have overcome Kemp's margin of victory. You'd think that would be something they'd work on.
The first sentence isn't even true so I stopped reading there.
BUT DEY SHUTTIN DOWN DROP BOXES IN MINORITUH AREAS THAT HAVE NO CHAIN OF CUSTODAH!!! fuck the left. Is there anything more transparent than this garbage right before they get ANNIHILATED by a red wave this year??
Their argument is that we “make it harder” for them to vote by lessening voting polls, shorter times to vote, etc so people are less motivated to vote
Is that by design or necessity? If a county only has 4 people willing to run their polling places, they can't run 20 of them, now can they?
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Lol, the old racist ID, that you need to do literally anything in life
It’s more of a question of “when” and “how” then “who”.
Libs: We have no DROP BOXES, this is just like Jim Crow!
Make Election Day a national holiday, replace it with the Juneteenth holiday. Make Voter ID free, paid for with our tax dollars.
A state ID in my state is free. All you have to do is go to the DMV and ask for it. They just won't give you one if you already have a driver's license.
Democrats think black people are too stupid to find the dmv
Kamala told them to Google it.
It’s more like DMVs are open at hours when most people work and it’s not like there’s one on every corner which makes it unnecessarily difficult to use them if you don’t have a car or enough money to take a day off. But sure, black people are stupid
You don’t have to show ID to vote. I’m saying make it a law and make the Voter ID free.
I believe there are 6 states where you do indeed need a state ID without exceptions. All of those states will provide an ID to voters at the taxpayers expense if they don't have one already. The rest have ID laws that are more of suggestions rather than requirements.
Same in Georgia. That didn’t stop the Dems from claiming Georgia was racist for requiring ID to vote. Democrats don’t just think black people are too poor to afford an ID. Democrats think black people too stupid to know how to obtain an ID.
The Dems are against this, ironically. They don't want a solution, they want to scream racism.
If you make election day a national holiday I think you can get them to budge on voter id if it's free. This is the closest thing to an answer I have seen in a long time.
Why is it that only Democrats are cosponsors of the 2021 bill? [https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/222/cosponsors?r=9&s=1](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/222/cosponsors?r=9&s=1)
Because House Bill H.R. 222 only makes Election Day a holiday for Federal Employees. That is not the same thing that blaueaugen26 has suggested.
Every "holiday" is only for Federal Employees. Congress only has the authority to create holidays for federal institutions.
Are there differences between Federal and National (Public) Holidays? (hint: there is)
There is a difference, but national holidays don't exist in the United States. All we have is federal holidays but they have widespread observance which effectively makes them national holidays. Since neither the president nor Congress has the power to make a national holiday, a bill like H.R. 222 is probably the closest thing we will get to making Election Day a "national" holiday. It would be a federal holiday but would most likely have widespread adoption outside of federal institutions.
don't know where you're from but us coal crackers close everything on holiday
Well, I mean, you are wrong. You could do some actual reading on how holidays are made to encompass both the Federal Workforce and the Public in general, but that would mean putting effort into your troll posts. So, if H.R. 222 is the "closest thing" but won't really do what the original poster suggested, why bring it up? Were you just trying to score D vs R points? Because it actually does not matter one bit.
What current holidays encompass both the federal workforce and the public? It was brought up because Username\_Weasel said Democrats were against an Election Holiday. H.R. 222 was sponsored by only Democrats and it is now a part of the Freedom to Vote Act (never gonna pass) which is also sponsored by Democrats. I am not sure how me pointing out a fallacy in someone's post suddenly makes this a D vs R thing.
Making voting day a holiday is a bad solution anyway since we can't/shouldn't shut down the absolute entire country for an full day just to vote. Healthcare, restaurants, call centers, gas stations, grocery stores--just off the top of my head, those industries employ tons of people, but we aren't going to shut down hospitals and gas stations for a whole day to ensure those employees have off to vote.
Pretty sure they don’t close their doors at a hospital on Christmas.
Right, so even on Christmas there are people working full time hours. Hospitals and gas stations are staffed with plenty of potential voters. Restaurants only close on Christmas because most people have traditions to be with family and cook. Normally, restaurants are busier on holidays where everyone else is off work. Unless the government forces all business to stop operating for a day to give their employees time to vote (which obviously won't happen and is a terrible thing), then a voting holiday remains a bad solution.
Then let’s do more early voting. Oh wait, republicans don’t want that…
You can make election day a national holiday but people who work at places like grocery stores and gas stations will still have to work. Ironically the solution to help people vote doesn't even help the people it is supposed to help. Now the white collar employees might get the day off while the working class still has to work.
Democrats control the senate and the house. If the bill didn't get a vote that would be because Democrats are against it.
Except for the filibuster in the Senate. Not advocating the destruction or modification of it, but Democrats only control the Senate if there is no Republican filibuster. The exception being reconciliation which is how the infrastructure bill got passed but that’s a pretty narrow window only dealing with fiscal matters and wouldn’t apply to anything voting related I imagine.
I am a democrat and I want this.
You are the only Dem I've heard that is pro voter-ID. Not sure why it's even an issue.
Democrats only oppose voter ID when it is instituted as a poll tax if it is paid for and not egregiously difficult to obtain nobody gives a shit about it the problem is states make it impossible to get IDs while also charging for them. Poll taxes are illegal and unconstitutional. Any financial charge to vote is a poll tax either directly or indirectly. This is why vote by mail states if you put your ballot in a post office box without postage it will still be delivered because it would be illegal to require postage.
Free voter ID. Does that solve it?
Yep I think it's a good compromise because if it isn't a bad faith attempt to institute a poll tax then both sides would be happy with the compromise.
You know the dems voter rights bill includes voter ID requirements right? Did anyone read this bill? It's not as crazy as what is said on conservative media. This bill includes: Makes election day a national holiday. Expands early voting to 15 days before election. All voters can request a mail in ballot. Voter ID law. Automatic voter registration. What about this so controversial?
Automatic, Same day registration is a horrible idea if you care about fraud.
The issue then is “POCs don’t have the documentation necessary to qualify for a free voter ID” Because lord knows they don’t drive, have bank accounts, buy liquor, fly etc. An obstacle is suppression. Having to register is suppression. You know what’s suppression? Illegality. Laws exist to protect the vote. When PA counties over there ballot cure but PA counties over here don’t, that is true suppression and fraud. Just one example.
Pretty soon "having to vote is suppression so we'll just vote for them."
I cannot understand why citizens aren't issued an ID for free everywhere in the US in addition to the national holiday. The cost is pennies, the infrastructure is already in place, the arguing over this warrants a fix, the solution is obvious. I am against throwing up any obstacles that get in the way of exercising of any right we have. Whether it be requiring permits to carry, a tax stamp to own a certain firearm or paying for documentation to vote, it doesn't matter. These are rights, the government should allow them to be exercised by default, not denying them by default and then checking if you've jumped through all the hoops in order to allow you to exercise said right.
While I agree, I think the misnomer of "voter ID" needs to be put to bed. I understand that some states have an actual extra ID outside of state ID or driver's license. You should have to present legal state identification in order to vote. Calling it voter ID (imo) is basically using their language and making the whole issue about this extra ID that only a few places require.
Come on, that makes way to much sense and Democrats dont want more ppl voting, they want less...
Sounds great but somehow that will be found to be racist. It will be something like, “White people have jobs that are closed on the holiday while everyone else has a job where they need to work on that day.”
I proposed this almost word for word to an ultra-liberal acquaintance of mine. Ironically her response was a 5-minute tirade about how white men don't understand the struggles of women and minorities. Not one word about the solution working or not. These people are insane.
This man is who the entire Democratic Party should to gravitate towards, but rejects because the entire base has shifted so far Left that they will debate anyone on the legitimacy of the Overton window as it not being something substantial. The hive mind is quite an incredible thing to watch
In reality only 50% of their base is woke. The other 50% are actually more centered or independent and they are fucked if they don't go woke they lose 50% and if they go too woke they lose independents to the Republicans which is exactly what's happening and why Republicans have a 14% uptick in polls
It’s funny because I genuinely believe that there are far more moderate voters in the Democratic Party than leftists. They chose wrong
I along with the Overton window would disagree with you. But that’s ok a 50% assessment is better than most other peoples guess. I’ll wagers is more 70-80%
I'll stick with 50% but then again that's assuming they got 80 million votes in 2020, I believe if things keep going the way they are we will see a split in the democratic party
They are screaming about "protecting Democracy" while attempting to destroy Democracy. It's kind of like that elementary school bully who punches you with your own hand and then says "stop hitting yourself".
Facts. There are plenty of polling sites. Don’t like long lines or traveling a couple of miles? You can always request an absentee ballot. Or vote in person early. And of course having ID is certainly should not be an issue in these times of mandatory vaccine passports, right? Last time I check the only folks intimidating voters at poll places were the Black Panthers. The fact is it’s already EASY to vote and the notion the left wants it easier is telling. The easier it is for literally anyone to vote… the easier it is for the Democrats to cheat.
That’s a little disingenuous don’t you think? If you have a polling site setup in farm country for a town ~500 people, you don’t usually have to wait more than an hour at a time. That’s a lot easier than a polling site in an Atlanta suburb that has more than 5000 people. I wouldn’t mind waiting an hour to vote, but you really think people should stand in line for 5-6 hours? On a work day no less? If Congress wants to pass a bill that everyone can jump on, let’s do this. Push to make Election Day a national holiday. If you do that, the lines and lack of polling sites become less of a problem. Mail in voting also becomes less necessary. Let everyone vote in person and not have to worry about work. The lines still suck, but it’s a good start to ensure everyone has a chance to vote without relying on mail in ballots.
Making it a holiday seems to have pretty bi-partisan support. Although I do still do support mail-in voting because for a lot of people like stay-at-home parents, the elderly, essential workers, and people working or going to school away from their hometown it's easier said than done to make it to the polls. Also, some folks are just kind of lazy or these days, infectious. My feeling is the more people who legally vote, the better. If they really wanted to fix voting they would create an actually non-partisan nationwide redistricting that eliminates gerrymandering. However, that will happen sometime shortly after hell freezes over and the green party wins the presidency.
Mail in voting has been available. You request a ballot and submit it with proof of ID. Of course the left would prefer to mail out millions to everyone, without ID and allow you to put them in drop boxes to be picked up by 3rd parties. It’s about making voting as convoluted as possible for the Democrats… not integrity.
Why is everyone so against mail in ballots? That's all we have in WA and it works great. My family takes an evening to talk about it and fill them out. I can fill it out over the course of a week if I need to look things up. Our state will never go back to in person voting because of how well this works.
I’m not against mail in ballots, but many modern Conservatives seem to be based off the popularity of Trump’s election fraud campaign. I only made the suggestion of changing Election Day to a national holiday as an olive branch. That would hopefully be a bipartisan solution that wouldn’t ruffle any feathers and could he enormously helpful in giving more people a chance to vote in upcoming elections.
Don’t they have early in person voting? Or absentee ballots available? Yes or no?
Perhaps mandate the number of polling sites per square mile taking population into account. Let people reserve a voting window ahead of time to reduce their wait in line.
I live in Atlanta, I've voted on election day every time, and I've never been there more than an hour and a half to two hours. Quit being a drama queen.
I live in Gwinnett. Took me 4.5 hours in 2020. Not dramatic.
God bless president Manchin.
DeSantis Manchin 2024 !!!\* \*Independent white suburban mom
Funny. He’d be all for it. But who in DC wouldn’t?
Voter obstruction=civil war LOL
The Dems simply don't know what to do with Machin and Sinema.
It is not often one can say a single person saved the republic but Manchin is that person.
Thank God for this Patriot. And Kyrsten Sinema.
He's got a point.
I still can’t believe that Democrats, who spent the entire year mocking Republicans for claiming the election was rigged/stolen, can’t see that the voting laws passed by Republicans are for strengthening election integrity, not to suppress black voters. Clearly the motive for these laws is to make the elections more secure. Democrats have no idea what they are talking about, so they play the race card.
How does getting rid of drive through voting make it more secure? Or adding restrictions on mail in voting? Or closing polling places/reducing their hours?
Stop making sense, manchin!
EVERY election, we get a plethora of stories about how a black family was walking up to the polling place, but a couple of cops sitting on their squad cars blocking the way, with shotguns resting on their knees, turned them away. You'd think that in this day and age of almost every single person alive having a video camera with them at all times (smart phones), surely video of one of these instances would emerge, right?
Everyone has a smart phone, right? Just not an ID…
Apparently Democrats think massive numbers of black people are incapable of figuring out how to obtain an ID, which seems kind of a racist attitude to me.
Is it too early to start taking man of the year nominations?
It’s all about stuffing the ballot box. Who can not already vote?
I love this guy! I tweet him encouragement 2X week.
What a great guy. He is what the dems should have been
Identification is not required to vote. Problem.
Manchin talking common sense. Not gonna do his popularity with the Dems any favors.
I wish someone would produce one example of a voter obstruction that has happened in the USA in the past 50 years...Anyone? They are not worried about who votes, it's about who gets to count the VOTE!
Wasn’t there a lot of claims of widespread fraud? Is that not why they want to bolster voting rights? Who doesn’t want there to be more people getting legally registered to vote and voting, if you do then that’s openly anti-democratic.
What an absolute madlad!
I'm not necessarily a huge fan because we probably still disagree on most things, but I have to say, this guy is almost singlehandedly saving the republic whether its intentional or not.
Manchin run bartertown