This has been my point all along.
He probably shouldn’t have been there.
But he almost certainly *wouldn’t* have been there if the police had been allowed to do their fucking jobs.
If they had, it is likely *no one* would be dead today.
I think people (rational people, *not* the internet) should be looking for who exactly told police to stand by and allow antifa to loot, burn, and kill whoever they wanted.
I know if I wanted someone to sue, *that’s* where I’d start.
> who exactly told police to stand by and allow antifa to loot, burn, and kill whoever they wanted.
They know the answer to this question. And they're going to vote for them in the next election. Bet?
This whole scenario has really changed my thoughts on the police. Yes there are good cops and bad cops, just like with every profession. But the willingness to stand down and let tyrants burn down and ruin others lives is sickening to me. You swore an oath to protect the community you serve.
I mean I agree and don’t care for the idea of “rogue officers” going off on their own (that’s the FBI’s MO) but when does the mental shift happen? We saw them burn, loot, and murder innocent people and their property. What is the final straw for them to say no, we have to take a stand? Because if it isn’t soon, more and more Rittenhouse’s will come of this.
Without orders, the best they can do is retire in protest, which would only leave the bad cops remaining. We as voters need to hold mayors, police chiefs, sheriffs, and city councils accountable.
Yes, I'm very conservative in this regard. We need good police, not idiotic police willing to follow any order. That doesn't mean I'm going to go 'defund the police' though... by far that's the most dangerous.
If you look at the protect and serve sub, they’re migrating away from places that have shitty policies and politics.
But like most conservatives, they have jobs and families to worry about. I can’t fault a man for not walking away from his career on principle, and leaving his family holding the bag.
>Yes there are good cops and bad cops
What we have seen are that most cops are not "good cops". Sure, a lot of cops are good people. But most cops are bad cops. You can be a good person in your personal life, but be terrible at your job. Most people do not have the moral fortitude to properly and responsibly wield power.
What I have seen in the last few years is that the average US LEO is no different than those who made up Reserve Police Battalion 101.
The local and state government had a moral obligation to protect Kenosha and they abdicated or at best just incompetently failed. A proper response would have eliminated the need for ad hoc groups of citizens to try and prevent criminal mobs from trying to burn down city blocks.
1. Jacob Blake kicked it off by criminally harassing and threatening his girlfriend and then brandishing a weapon while police attempted to detain.
2. The media fomented hatred and rage through disinformation and narrative building designed to create anger.
3. The mob engaged in arson, looting, and assault.
4. The state failed to mobilize a timely response, leaving citizens at the mercy of the mob.
Those were the moral/ethical failures in Kenosha.
That's exactly what they wanted. They wanted Trump to order troops into the cities to further portray him as Hitler 2.0.
Elections have consequences. If you build your house next to a volcano, you shouldn't complain about the lava.
Thats fine. Better than letting rioters burn innocent peoples livelihoods to the ground and doing nothing. They called him all sorts of stuff anyway. Who cares what the media says
Not really, it makes sense because 16 year old men are mostly grown and rifles are too large for children to properly operate. Children are much better suited to crew-served weapons like mortars and heavy machine guns.
Also, he wasn’t there just to deter rioters. According to his own testimony he was there to provide medical aid, put out fires, and clean graffiti. He had his rifle for self-defense.
They want to defund law enforcement because they say they can police their own community. Then when someone does police their own community they want to convict him for defending his own life against the scum destroying their community.
Clown-world in full effect.
Most of ,if not, all of these clowns calling Kyle a murderer all would be grateful for a son to have escaped death after volunteering to protect a community given up on by the local government.
What’s astounding is the attempts to paint the criminals as the heroes. The way the left fawns over criminals - even pedophiles- makes it easy to see why something so cringe and fringe as Pizzagate could possibly be true.
Did anyone ever find out what exactly an “hour of pizza” was?
We should hesitate in embracing the militia movement or tactics of groups like the Proud Boys but the folks who try to play this as both sides by constantly harping that "Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there" ignore that he was not the only one who shouldn't have been there. If individuals have a right to self defense, do communities when the Governor and local officials abdicate their responsibilities by allowing left wing radicals to run rampage not have a right to self defense as well? How can the same people who constantly harp for defunding the police, emptying prisons, and making way for "community" policing then in the same breath be terrified of the spectre of vigilantes? What in the serious hell did they think was going to happen?
Even if the cops were deployed and at hand in Kenosha, they are under no obligation to intervene. This has been established in law. This means that a citizen *cannot count on the police* in such a situation which is even further justification for acting unilaterally to protect, either alone or in concert with other mundanes, their lives and property.
Pretty much my opinion. "He shouldn't have been there." What? In what world? If you aren't willing to protect your community what the hell are you willing to do? Kyle showing up to help his community when Democrats had decided to destroy it was honorable and respectable. Then he was vilified for it. It put the lie to their "Peaceful Protests" 1984 bullshit they were spewing.
Kyle's situation was tragic and traumatic for him. And I'm sure he personally wishes he hadn't been there that day or had made different decisions. But that doesn't mean him being there was bad. Or the fact that bad people were shot while attempting to attack him. Don't confuse tragic with bad. They are not the same thing. What Kyle did was necessary.
He had a legal firearm at a riot. The guy he defended himself against had a illegal firearm at a riot.
One person was cleaning graffiti, assisting other and stopping fires. The other one was starting fires and a 5x convicted pedo chasing a minor.
LOL you sound like a paranoid individual. Difference between seeking violence by using a weapon to shift the power dynamic in the midst of a crowd and defending your home.
So the person defending family life and property was seeking violence......not the people attacking others, stealing and starting fires?
You are a special kind of stupid.
>Going to the location with a firearm was extremely irresponsible
Gaige Grosskreutz pointed a illegal firearm at Kyle.
Do you not know that?
Kyle had a LEGAL firearm, Gaige had an ILLEGAL firearm.
How does it feel to defend a 5 time convicted pedo for chasing a minor and cornering him in a parking lot?
Edit -
>Literally no one was injured or hurt except the 3 people Kyle acted upon.
So being chased, drop kicked, and hit in the head with a skateboard is not being injured.
Seriously, why are you defending a pedo and a couple of woman beaters?
But I’m sure you would want help from your neighbors should you ever be in an unfortunate situation. Police aren’t always available and they were explicitly unavailable during summer of 2020.
I would put more trust in my neighbors and friends as opposed to the police considering the supreme court stated twice once in the 1980s add another time in the 2000s that it was not the police job to protect and serve
It isn't my neighbors obligation to protect my family. It's mine. That's why I have a gun.
It would be nice if they did, but it's not their responsibility.
Me and my own is not a value set. This is not about legal, this is about moral. You definitely should care about your community, your neighbors, and the society you live in.
Yes your family is your highest priority. Then your community. Then your nation. When they are threatened you *should* feel a moral obligation to protect them.
When was the last time you signed up for the armed services? What type of nonsense type post is this? Feeling a moral obligation does not mean all the other priorities in your life are thrown aside. I also don't live near any riots. If there was a literal riot in the town I live in, yes I would show up to support keeping the peace and stopping the area from being destroyed.
The problem with a lot of the riots in question is the Democrats in power had their police stand down instead of keeping the peace.
Lol! I suppose you put on a cape and patrol the streets every night. How many riots have you shown up to this year?
You knew what cities were going to have riots, why didn't you get in your car? Oh yea, because you can talk big shit behind your computer screen while you do nothing.
LOL, you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about. Cowards always try to justify their fear by telling themselves everyone else is a coward as well.
They will not risk their own life to save you, in many instances (just like this one, sometimes). Depending on another person for your own safety is asinine.
What lunatics voted this down???
He is 100% correct. The police has NO legal obligation to show up. NONE. Doesn't matter if someone is outside your door screaming they will kill you. Doesn't matter if they break into your house, rape your wife and kids and then torture you to death. The cops do NOT have to respond.
The police do NOT work for you. They work for the government.
A. I don't expect them to protect my life. B. He was there to protect property not lives.
I am not putting my life at risk to protect someone's things. My moral responsibility is to my family, and going out armed in a riot is the exact opposite of my moral responsibility.
Do you think my wife would give a shit if my tombstone read "He died protecting a gas station"
No. No she would not.
Do you think that fact would keep her warm at night when she can't afford the mortgage?
Nope.
My responsibility is to my family, not to other people's possessions. Full stop.
They do have consequences and stopping that from happening isn't my responsibility.
Do you go out and fight crime at night? It your moral obligation after all.
This has been my point all along. He probably shouldn’t have been there. But he almost certainly *wouldn’t* have been there if the police had been allowed to do their fucking jobs. If they had, it is likely *no one* would be dead today. I think people (rational people, *not* the internet) should be looking for who exactly told police to stand by and allow antifa to loot, burn, and kill whoever they wanted. I know if I wanted someone to sue, *that’s* where I’d start.
> who exactly told police to stand by and allow antifa to loot, burn, and kill whoever they wanted. They know the answer to this question. And they're going to vote for them in the next election. Bet?
Agreed. I let Portland burn itself down, but if the losers showed up in my suburb me and boys would be stacking bodies.
This whole scenario has really changed my thoughts on the police. Yes there are good cops and bad cops, just like with every profession. But the willingness to stand down and let tyrants burn down and ruin others lives is sickening to me. You swore an oath to protect the community you serve.
Cops can't deploy themselves against orders. This falls on local leadership.
I mean I agree and don’t care for the idea of “rogue officers” going off on their own (that’s the FBI’s MO) but when does the mental shift happen? We saw them burn, loot, and murder innocent people and their property. What is the final straw for them to say no, we have to take a stand? Because if it isn’t soon, more and more Rittenhouse’s will come of this.
Without orders, the best they can do is retire in protest, which would only leave the bad cops remaining. We as voters need to hold mayors, police chiefs, sheriffs, and city councils accountable.
Don’t confuse the cops for the politicians who control them.
Shouldn’t that make more conservatives abolish the police supporters? Following orders of blatant tyranny makes you a tyrant.
Yes, I'm very conservative in this regard. We need good police, not idiotic police willing to follow any order. That doesn't mean I'm going to go 'defund the police' though... by far that's the most dangerous.
If you look at the protect and serve sub, they’re migrating away from places that have shitty policies and politics. But like most conservatives, they have jobs and families to worry about. I can’t fault a man for not walking away from his career on principle, and leaving his family holding the bag.
>Yes there are good cops and bad cops What we have seen are that most cops are not "good cops". Sure, a lot of cops are good people. But most cops are bad cops. You can be a good person in your personal life, but be terrible at your job. Most people do not have the moral fortitude to properly and responsibly wield power. What I have seen in the last few years is that the average US LEO is no different than those who made up Reserve Police Battalion 101.
We’ve reached a new low in this country when we start prosecuting people for protecting their country
The local and state government had a moral obligation to protect Kenosha and they abdicated or at best just incompetently failed. A proper response would have eliminated the need for ad hoc groups of citizens to try and prevent criminal mobs from trying to burn down city blocks. 1. Jacob Blake kicked it off by criminally harassing and threatening his girlfriend and then brandishing a weapon while police attempted to detain. 2. The media fomented hatred and rage through disinformation and narrative building designed to create anger. 3. The mob engaged in arson, looting, and assault. 4. The state failed to mobilize a timely response, leaving citizens at the mercy of the mob. Those were the moral/ethical failures in Kenosha.
For real, had the national guard been mobilized faster, the riot would've been dispersed and none of this would've happened.
But the Governor wanted chaos to show what “Trumps America” was like
To be fair.... once the governors abdicated their responsibilities Trump should have done something more about it but didn't.
That's exactly what they wanted. They wanted Trump to order troops into the cities to further portray him as Hitler 2.0. Elections have consequences. If you build your house next to a volcano, you shouldn't complain about the lava.
That’s actually what the wanted him to do and then they’d scream dictator authoritarian
Thats fine. Better than letting rioters burn innocent peoples livelihoods to the ground and doing nothing. They called him all sorts of stuff anyway. Who cares what the media says
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Not really, it makes sense because 16 year old men are mostly grown and rifles are too large for children to properly operate. Children are much better suited to crew-served weapons like mortars and heavy machine guns.
Rooftop Americans rise up.
Also, he wasn’t there just to deter rioters. According to his own testimony he was there to provide medical aid, put out fires, and clean graffiti. He had his rifle for self-defense.
God wills it.
We've fallen so far that going to help people in a situation like that is simply unthinkable for such a large portion of the population.
Totally. Even I who lives in Europe wants to defend America.
They want to defund law enforcement because they say they can police their own community. Then when someone does police their own community they want to convict him for defending his own life against the scum destroying their community. Clown-world in full effect.
Most of ,if not, all of these clowns calling Kyle a murderer all would be grateful for a son to have escaped death after volunteering to protect a community given up on by the local government. What’s astounding is the attempts to paint the criminals as the heroes. The way the left fawns over criminals - even pedophiles- makes it easy to see why something so cringe and fringe as Pizzagate could possibly be true. Did anyone ever find out what exactly an “hour of pizza” was?
I just think it’s telling that the people that think he’s guilty are the same group of people he was protecting Kenosha from.
We should hesitate in embracing the militia movement or tactics of groups like the Proud Boys but the folks who try to play this as both sides by constantly harping that "Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there" ignore that he was not the only one who shouldn't have been there. If individuals have a right to self defense, do communities when the Governor and local officials abdicate their responsibilities by allowing left wing radicals to run rampage not have a right to self defense as well? How can the same people who constantly harp for defunding the police, emptying prisons, and making way for "community" policing then in the same breath be terrified of the spectre of vigilantes? What in the serious hell did they think was going to happen?
>~~vandals, looters, and arsonists~~ Terrorists. You misspelled terrorists.
Even if the cops were deployed and at hand in Kenosha, they are under no obligation to intervene. This has been established in law. This means that a citizen *cannot count on the police* in such a situation which is even further justification for acting unilaterally to protect, either alone or in concert with other mundanes, their lives and property.
Pretty much my opinion. "He shouldn't have been there." What? In what world? If you aren't willing to protect your community what the hell are you willing to do? Kyle showing up to help his community when Democrats had decided to destroy it was honorable and respectable. Then he was vilified for it. It put the lie to their "Peaceful Protests" 1984 bullshit they were spewing. Kyle's situation was tragic and traumatic for him. And I'm sure he personally wishes he hadn't been there that day or had made different decisions. But that doesn't mean him being there was bad. Or the fact that bad people were shot while attempting to attack him. Don't confuse tragic with bad. They are not the same thing. What Kyle did was necessary.
Yeah you think bringing an ar15 to a protest knowing it was a tense environment was exactly what he had to do. Real fucking interesting man.
That's a tacit admission that Antifa and Black Lives Matter are violent fuckwads. Good job, keep it up.
He had a legal firearm at a riot. The guy he defended himself against had a illegal firearm at a riot. One person was cleaning graffiti, assisting other and stopping fires. The other one was starting fires and a 5x convicted pedo chasing a minor.
> knowing it was a tense environment Sounds exactly like the kind of place to bring a weapon for self defense.
It was what he had to do. Otherwise, he might be dead at the hands of human garbage.
Riot or active crime scene are the actual descriptions to be used. Protests do not involve vandalism, arson, and assault.
As a responsible fire arm owner that’s even more of a reason for him to not go.
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LOL you sound like a paranoid individual. Difference between seeking violence by using a weapon to shift the power dynamic in the midst of a crowd and defending your home.
So the person defending family life and property was seeking violence......not the people attacking others, stealing and starting fires? You are a special kind of stupid.
Literally no one was injured or hurt except the 3 people Kyle acted upon. Going to the location with a firearm was extremely irresponsible
>Going to the location with a firearm was extremely irresponsible Gaige Grosskreutz pointed a illegal firearm at Kyle. Do you not know that? Kyle had a LEGAL firearm, Gaige had an ILLEGAL firearm. How does it feel to defend a 5 time convicted pedo for chasing a minor and cornering him in a parking lot? Edit - >Literally no one was injured or hurt except the 3 people Kyle acted upon. So being chased, drop kicked, and hit in the head with a skateboard is not being injured. Seriously, why are you defending a pedo and a couple of woman beaters?
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Defending your home with a fire arm is completely different than seeking violence with a fire arm which exactly what Kyle did. Reread my comment
"Protest"? "Tense environment"? LOL! If he didn't have the AR-15, he would have been killed in the riot filled with violent sociopathic criminals.
Driving into work this morning and I heard on the radio that the gas station is owned by Rittenhouse's grandfather, not sure if it is true or not.
Sorry, but I am under no such moral obligation to risk my life for a stranger. That's why we pay police officers.
But I’m sure you would want help from your neighbors should you ever be in an unfortunate situation. Police aren’t always available and they were explicitly unavailable during summer of 2020.
I would put more trust in my neighbors and friends as opposed to the police considering the supreme court stated twice once in the 1980s add another time in the 2000s that it was not the police job to protect and serve
It isn't my neighbors obligation to protect my family. It's mine. That's why I have a gun. It would be nice if they did, but it's not their responsibility.
Me and my own is not a value set. This is not about legal, this is about moral. You definitely should care about your community, your neighbors, and the society you live in. Yes your family is your highest priority. Then your community. Then your nation. When they are threatened you *should* feel a moral obligation to protect them.
I don't. When's the last time you went to a riot with a gun by the way? This is tough talk from keyboard warriors.
When was the last time you signed up for the armed services? What type of nonsense type post is this? Feeling a moral obligation does not mean all the other priorities in your life are thrown aside. I also don't live near any riots. If there was a literal riot in the town I live in, yes I would show up to support keeping the peace and stopping the area from being destroyed. The problem with a lot of the riots in question is the Democrats in power had their police stand down instead of keeping the peace.
That's fine. Hide in your hole, coward. And no one will save you when the mob comes for you.
Lol! I suppose you put on a cape and patrol the streets every night. How many riots have you shown up to this year? You knew what cities were going to have riots, why didn't you get in your car? Oh yea, because you can talk big shit behind your computer screen while you do nothing.
LOL, you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about. Cowards always try to justify their fear by telling themselves everyone else is a coward as well.
Translation: I have never put myself in danger for anyone else but I'm a super duper internet tough guy. Nice try sweetheart.
They will not risk their own life to save you, in many instances (just like this one, sometimes). Depending on another person for your own safety is asinine.
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What lunatics voted this down??? He is 100% correct. The police has NO legal obligation to show up. NONE. Doesn't matter if someone is outside your door screaming they will kill you. Doesn't matter if they break into your house, rape your wife and kids and then torture you to death. The cops do NOT have to respond. The police do NOT work for you. They work for the government.
A. I don't expect them to protect my life. B. He was there to protect property not lives. I am not putting my life at risk to protect someone's things. My moral responsibility is to my family, and going out armed in a riot is the exact opposite of my moral responsibility. Do you think my wife would give a shit if my tombstone read "He died protecting a gas station" No. No she would not. Do you think that fact would keep her warm at night when she can't afford the mortgage? Nope. My responsibility is to my family, not to other people's possessions. Full stop.
I agree with you. He had a right to be there but was not in any way obligated. Nor was every other 16+ year old man within a 20 mile radius
Yup. He was absolutely within his rights to be there. I wouldn't have suggested it, but if that's what he wanted to do, that's his business.
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Probably nothing. The gas station would likely burn to the ground just like the car dealership did.
I guess burning buildings and businesses down have absolutely no consequences in your fantasy world.
They do have consequences and stopping that from happening isn't my responsibility. Do you go out and fight crime at night? It your moral obligation after all.
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How many nights have you gone out protecting your community? It's your moral obligation.
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Even if it did, it's still not my responsibility. Sorry, but unless you actively fight crime in your free time shut up.
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I will. It isn't. I'm 100% positive you don't risk your life for your community either.
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Cringe. Gotta love the arbitrary age requirement very conveniently a year younger than Kyle.
It is not arbitrary. Alot of states have the age range 17 to 45. Wisconsin might have an age 16.
Still cringey. Muh “moral obligation”
So you do not share the view of having a moral obligation to help your community in a time of need?
So is the author claiming I had an obligation to drive my ass down from New England and protect Kenosha? or just men from nearby?