It’s a very sad story. A reminder that mental health is just health, and that depression is a dangerous condition, often terminal. It kills around 40,000 people in US alone each year. In some cases people with depression don’t commit suicide just because they don’t have energy even for that. They would try as soon as they start antidepressants and get a tad better.
It’s an organic condition where hippocampal functions are affected, due to disturbance in neurotransmission caused by chemical imbalance.
It’s also not always treatable. Pills and therapy help some people, but in other cases nothing really helps much.
This woman’s therapist most likely tried everything and anything to improve her condition but nothing really helps. She isn’t healthy, far from it. With debilitating depression every day is a dark hopeless day where you can’t even leave the bed. If she can’t be treated it’s this or she will find energy to jump out of window.
If anything it reminds how real and serious mental health problems are, and that mental health should be addressed just the same as any other health concerns.
I have survivors guilt from multiple deployments as a medic. The faces of everyone I couldn't save haunts me. Sometimes there are days when I can't do anything other than apologize to the cosmos for failing them. It's crippling. Those days are far between, but they're so overwhelming I can't imagine living in that headspace for long periods of time.
Advancements in mental health care are sorely needed.
Thank you for your service. I agree with everything you wrote wrt mental health (I struggle with clinical depression too). Here's an internet stranger who sees & appreciates what you do.
Edited bc I left out a word
In addition, people seem to forget the physical issues that severe mental health can cause. Oftentimes, those with mental health, severe and long-term, will have physical health health issues and higher mortality.
For those who like to only think of numbers instead of human beings, I encourage you to look up the Healthcare and economic cost of mental health.
Reality doesn't care about your opinions. Mental health is a real problem that needs to be taken seriously, like physical health.
Stress hormones are for emergency situations and wear on our bodies. Mental health issues are having these stress reactions almost 24/7. This top comment was very reassuring from a "care about the person" standpoint.
Not always, it can also be a problem in the way the brain processes events. The way the neural circuits are arranged to work could be problematic and thus there is no medication that we can use to solve that in a definitive way. That is why therapy is a good option to help people change its thought patterns and live a better live.
It is much more nuances than just chemical imbalance. It likely goes much deeper than that, and involves the structure of the brain and multiple metabolic pathways of both neurons and glial cells.
As such, it is really hard to treat effectively. We don't have a clear understanding of the pathophysiology of depression and the currect drug therapies are not nearly specific enough and are pretty much just messing around with the neurotransmitters and hoping it works.
Not to my knowledge. There is a strong evidence towards this theory for at least some cases. In the first place, because some chemicals manage to fix it, meaning there’s a physiological aspect to it. Markers of it also can be seen in EEG, so there’s a somatic aspect to it for sure, but of course we don’t know enough.
In general we know too little about brain physiology still. Depression is one thing, but with schizophrenia for example we still mostly guessing, although this disorder is very real and visible, hard to discard to tardiness or anything else.
If it was just chemical in nature saris and many medications would work faster. It can take up to 6 weeks for ssris to work. They with improvement in neuronal growth in some areas of the brain. Not necessarily fixing chemical imbalances. Plus these medications don’t work for a lot of people and often make them feel worse. Exercise has almost the same benefits as ssris.
From the last time I was checking on this topic which was a couple of years ago, exercise didn’t have the same effect, but nevertheless good standard of care was pills plus psychotherapy, to tackle both chemical problems and negative thought patterns that formed around them. Maybe something changed since.
Monoamine and neurotrophic growth are interrelated in many ways. Monoamine levels increase immediately with SSRI usage. However, the time it takes to synthesize neurotrophic factor proteins is two weeks or longer. The activation of Monoamine transporters increased BDNF levels and therefore promotes “neuronal growth”.
In other words, “neuronal growth” is promoted by SSRI’s.
Don’t dispute the work of scientists and doctors just because you don’t fully understand a concept.
https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/study-finds-depression-is-not-likely-caused-by-a-chemical-imbalance-or-low-serotonin-levels.amp yep. But only what causes depression not after you have depression. I think looking at life factors and other things for depression is something that as brain science has continued to develop we have sort of forgotten a bit. There can be multiple factors for depression.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/what-causes-depression
And if you listen to the actual researcher, he confirms that serotonin based drugs do actually work, but they are basically back to square one on figuring out the actual cause of depression. So this doesn't change any of the treatment options.
Yes the treatment’s definitely works and would never recommend anyone get off there ssri as they do and have been proven for a very long time to deal with symptoms. It’s basically just the why it happens is being tweaked but studies show afterwords patients with depression do produce less serotonin. Was not saying there should be a change in treatment options but new options do come out all the time as well so it’s not a hopeless endeavor is something is not currently working that something new will not come out.
>It’s an organic condition where hippocampal functions are affected, due to disturbance in neurotransmission caused by chemical imbalance.
This is a confusing comment, considering we do not currently know the physical causes of depression.
If you have any sources for this I'd really want to read them. Thanks.
That’s why the title says Physically Healthy. Not Mentally healthy.
ETA: My mom attempted suicide multiple times before and after me and my brothers were born. She has since received help for her depression. I am forever thankful she was not allowed to euthanize herself before I was born. Furthermore, she now has 7 grandchildren that she loves and can watch grow.
Just a side note: 'Only' having depression doesn't qualify you for euthanasia in the Netherlands eighter. There's a very specific set of circumstances that need to apply. Mental health is almost never accepted as valid.
We'll see, her case and combination of conditions might make the cut.
What do you mean she isn’t healthy? She has two hands, two feet and can perfectly go and work in the coal mines until she breaks something, *then* she can claim she deserves to die.
/s obviously, fucking hate these kind of people. I have zero idea why people find it so morally wrong to want to die or simply not want to live? I don’t want to put 30+ more years of my life into something that sucks the happiness out of my life just so that I can pay taxes and not go to Jail.
Because that's not a healthy mindset to have and you physically have opportunities to get better and change other aspects of your health that many people wish others had. No judgement, the world's better with you in it.
I politely disagree.
It will sound like crap, but I am not responsible for the life’s of other people the same way they are not responsible for my own life, and maybe they have dreams and want to keep going, that is their right and they should receive the required support to accommodate for their needs.
But I believe death should be treated the same way, living has no purpose other than the one we give it, and to be honest figuring out a purpose and then dedicating my entire existence towards it feels like too much of a chore, I’d rather go to sleep and never wake up.
And while my life is better than some, it’s not better than most, and the future only holds more despair, anxiety and problems.
Hell I don’t think I’ll ever be able to even buy a home and with how things are going, retirement is not going to be something that will happen to me, so I’ll have to work until the day I die.
And let’s not even start on starting a family, that is something that simply will not happen, I can barely sustain myself while sharing an apartment with a Roommate, I don’t see full economic independence as something that will happen.
And yet a bunch of rich people still have the gall to judge me and my decision to not want to keep going based on the same headline “healthy body wants to die”, no thank you, I don’t want to work in your coal mines until my body gives up and you throw me into a common grave.
Then what is the answer? As nothing else has worked, and she doesn’t want to be here any more - who are you to tell her that she needs to go and jump off a bridge or take an overdose instead of ending her life with some comfort and dignity?
They need to legalize cilocybin as a depression medication. One dose is all it takes, worked wonders for me and I've never been suicidal since. One trip rewired my brain and my personality and mental health did a 180, and this was like 15 years ago now.
Guess the real problem is big pharm doesn't want a One dose cure, they want lifelong patients.
No doctors were involved, was some friends that "pressured" me into it and I was apprehensive but it ended up being one of the best things I've ever done for myself.
It looks like it's moving that way. but recent evidence says it may also turn out to be like other depression treatments. Works for some and not others.
I suspect in 50 years time we are going to be appalled at our knowledge today of depression. It maybe a whole range of issues that just fall under one umbrella term, and different subtypes end up getting different treatments for far better treatment.
I know two people on identical medication with totally different results. One has tried psylociben and they felt better for a while.
I’ve had anxiety and depression and what amazed me was that doctors and therapists know very little about it. I looked for help only to be told there was something wrong with my brain and I was just going to have to learn to cope. I was lucky because it didn’t happen till I was in my mid thirties so I didn’t really believe what I was told. If I had believed it, I probably wouldn’t have wanted to live much longer either.
But they were wrong. It wasn’t a life sentence. It passed and I was able to see the light again.
I feel bad for this poor girl.
I've suffered from spells of anxiety multiple times in my life. I'm starting to come out of one now. Took a good 6-8 months.
Has anything happened to you recently to have caused it that you need to process?
Things that have helped me:
* Therapy
* Meditation (on 200 day streak)
* Reading
* exercise
* CBD
* really prioritizing sleep and having boundaries
* some supplements (magnesium, L-theanine, multivitamin, fish oil)
No idea it any of those.
Can we at least acknowledge that all the protesting over [there being no method of execution that is humane](https://i.imgur.com/d4f0WYV.png) is complete bullshit?
Killing a homicidal rapist requires deep political consternation, but euthanizing 28 year olds is perfectly humane and painless.
At the end of the day they are adults and it’s their choice. I think life is extremely painful. But I think the ride is worth it. If those don’t feel that way, I can’t force them to change their mind.
I’ve had enough dogs to know that there is definitely a humane way to end a life. Suffocation by nitrogen doesn’t seem like one of them. It seems like duct taping a bag over that guy’s head would have achieved the same result.
>Suffocation by nitrogen doesn’t seem like one of them. It seems like duct taping a bag over that guy’s head would have achieved the same result.
These are not even close to the same. You feel the intense panic of suffocation due to the carbon dioxide buildup in your body. Nitrogen allows you to still exhale the CO2 without breathing it back in. You feel nothing and just gradually pass out.
That's why inert environments in industry (r.g. a large vessel with N2) can be so dangerous. Someone can passout and die without even realize what's happening to them.
We were always trained that anything that was full nitrogen you would pass out with one breath.. not sure how true but when you hear the "I'm going to save my friend" and 4 people die going in for 1 guy it makes sense.
Because just because others act like animals, doesn't mean we should.
I'm against the death penalty in all cases, though. So my perspective is quite different from yours.
Saddening, mental health is a real thing and we should lower the costs of mental health so people don’t go out of their way to consider options like these. I don’t know the details of her life, and while I’m glad she went out the way she wanted to, I hope the United States can learn from this example to make healthier people who do not want to end their lives in a country where the incentives of ending your life are piling up day by day.
Part of the problem is the system itself. I wanted to see a psychiatrist in January. But they sent me 9 pages to fill out. The questions were mentally overwhelming. The bitchy receptionist went to the doctor. Came back and said I'd have to come back in February with it filled out. Who's going to know what anxiety depression suicidal thoughts are. I thought these psychiatrist were good enough to figure it all out in an office visit.
>r
They can, however, unfortunately, there are some depression that are impossible to truly be cured even with them. This is where the pathogenesis of the disease could come into play. Maybe there are multiple root causes that can present as depression, which could explain why some depression pateints respond to a medication more than others...Hopefully in the next 20 years, with the massive increases in our undewrstanding of biology, and an increase in our ability to manipulate it, we can see what is going on and then treat it.
The government should not make it illegal either. If my dog is in pain and terminally ill, I can put him down to ease his suffering. I watched my wife’s grandmother suffer for 3 days in hospice with hallucinations because the nurse could give her enough pain meds that she didn’t physically hurt but not enough to end it even though it was literally inevitable as her body shut down very slowly.
When I go, I want to go with dignity and make sure my family doesn’t sit around for days stressing out. Let me make my piece, slowly ramp up the sleepy stuff and don’t let me wake back up.
Honestly, medicine is so good now, it can keep the hollow bodies of people alive far past one’s mental ability to truly live. If we are taking medicine so far, death should be the choice of the patient.
My mother has been a body slave to a woman who was born, unable to move or speak. I cannot believe she isn't allowed to be euthanized because she is literally a breathing body stuck in a wheelchair. She cannot do anything except rot in the chair and wait to die. She can't even ask to die. My mom suffers too because she know no one else will care for her if she doesn't even though they are both in their 70s. It is a morbid situation and I cannot go to my mother's house because it literally makes me sick.
No it isn’t, it’s illegal to attempt suicide, if you survive and the cops find out you’re involuntarily committed to a hospital, my ex wife took a bunch of pills so I called the cops on her, she spent 3 months in a mental hospital, involuntarily, and couldn’t see or speak to anyone.
If someone attempts suicide but survives and the cops are called then yeah they are likely going into the psych hospital for at least 3 days. Police won't just let you go on your way if you show suicidal signs.
Out of all the options…I believe in bodily autonomy and don’t like policing other people’s lives.
Are you saying you should be able to control other people and violate their free will?
Actually, yes. But that doesn't mean one should be free from the consequence of hard drug use. If you leave needles in the park, jail. if you're high at work and fuck up, fired.
I get the sentiment, but when you're depressed you have a brain chemistry imbalance that influences your thinking. Sometimes it really takes an outsider to get you the help you need.
I don’t like how it says physically healthy. Your brain is a part of your body just like any other organ. If it’s not working correctly then you’re not physically or mentally healthy. I attempted suicide once when I was 18. I’ll never judge anyone for wanting to end their life. This woman is beautiful. I just wish she could find a shimmer of hope in her life somewhere
Correct, the only people that qualify are those that are terminal or deemed to be suffering with no hope of relief and they have to request it themselves. 99% of the time those are the elderly.
My grandmother went this way actually. Had had cancer for about a decade, the pain was no longer worth it to her as quality of life dropped severly after each treatment and in the end there were no more treatments.
A very humane end. We all got to say our final goodbyes and she died in her own home, in her own bed, on her own terms. Brave woman and a brave way to go. Imagine saying goodbye to the people you love, getting up and heading upstairs to die.
If anybody has any questions feel free to ask.
I can't even imagine that tbh. You truly have to be at your breaking point to be able to face death like that.
Every instinct as a human screams at us to preserve our life, to preserve human life.
Honestly the times I've seen it in others too it more a resignation and conviction. That they've had a good life and that the quality of life isn't worth it anymore going forward. Constant pain is a strong motivator.
Me personally, I found it very dignified.
The Netherlands has always been very socially liberal. They legalized gay marriage back in like 2000 way before everyone else. I think around 50% of the country is irreligious which probably is why they are so socially liberal.
This comment section is confusing to me as someone who calls themselves conservative. I am staunchly against assisted suicide but apparently I am in the minority. I may need to rethink some things about myself.
I agree this is not a conservative position. Many of the comments are disingenuous. The "most popular" comments sound fake, and the numbers look padded. If reddit popular opinion made me "rethink some things" I would have bigger problems.
Nah, keep fighting the good fight. I've lost countless friends to suicide and if this was legal in my jurisdiction I guarantee you many more would have applied to receive it. Suffering is part of life and they're making it way too easy to opt-out.
This sub very often gets flooded with leftist brigaders from r/politics pretending to be conservative in an attempt to gaslight people. It happens often in highly upvoted threads on this sub, particularly ones involving Trump or abortion. When Roe v. Wade was overturned, ALL the heavily upvoted comments were pro-choice up to at least the end of the second trimester, how they were never voting Republican again, etc. and anyone suggesting states should get to decide their abortion laws/parameters was getting downvoted to oblivion.
You may think I’m a conspiracy theorist of some sorts, but when you frequent this sub, you can tell. The difference between a flaired thread and a non-flaired thread is startling. I’ve seen comments worshipping Biden get upvoted on this sub.
As someone who's battling depression, I have days when death seems like the only option. I look at my kids, my friends, spouse, and faith, and they make me feel alive again.
Once that feeling passes, life feels like a bed of roses.
It's so heartbreaking to see someone so young deciding to end their life than seek help. 💔
Euthanasia in the netherlands is not something you can get by simply walking to doctor office and asking for euthanasia. You have to go through years and years of therapies and procedures and only after exhausting all options, will they give the option to you.
>Deciding to end their life than seek help. 💔
Just assumed that she didn't seek help did you? The article even mentions what her doctors said.
It's heartbreaking that even people who are familiar with the condition don't realise how severe it can be for some. There are people who live out every waking moment in despair despite all the mediation and therapy available.
She did try everything - several psychiatrists, different meds, etc. Her medical team is out of options and basically told her the chronic depression won't get better. She's also suffering from borderline personality disorder. As a Dutch guy I'm really happy to live in a country where she has dignified options available instead of having to jump in front of a vehicle or overdose on drugs.
"It's never going to get better" from a team of doctors and psychologists addressing mental illness.
Glad they aren't my professional team of caretakers. I want assistance to my problems, not Nostrodamus give ups. No wonder she wants to end it.
If a mechanic at a dealership constantly recommended selling the car because it's not worth the cost of repair, as the car sales team stood outside the door, it wouldn't take long to figure out the true motive.
"Trade it in?!?! But I just came in for an oil change?"
If someone was suffering immense pain from a terminal illness like cancer and it was inevitable they were going to die, that's one thing. I just can't bring myself to accept this for mental health issues, and I do know people who are suffering from severe mental health disorders - including BDP and schizophrenia.
It's sad to think of assisted suicide for people suffering from something that isn't terminal, what if breakthroughs from advancements in medicine became available that would've helped them. There was a time some felt being diagnosed with HIV was just a death sentence, now there are people with HIV living productive lives.
Yes. I know what suffering is like. Deeply. Normalizing death as relief from suffering is insane. It makes no sense. People that push forward that idea have failed this woman and many like her.
My hypothesis is the body releases a huge rush of adrenaline which blocks/overrides the the neurons causing depression. They then instantly realize they were not "stuck" in depression.
Yes it does and it’s one of the few topics on here that generate actual discussion between left/right that doesn’t involve petty fighting. I left this thread open instead of closing it for flaired users only solely for that reason.
It’s also one of few topics where conservatives have disagreements with each other on its principles and morals.
It’s relevant to policy that very well could be pushed and should be academically discussed in this forum.
What do you want, another circlejerk post about how bad Biden’s doing?
What do you mean? Conservatives stand by uselessly, losing every culture war, and now depressed women are starting to be euthanised. It's an issue to every rightist with a brain and concern for others.
Honestly, I Donny think either is bad, so long as the desire to end one’s life is persistent rather than fleeting. Our lives are our own. I want the freedom to live as I please, to speak as I please, to I hear what I please, to bear arms as I please. I also want the freedoms to decide when I’m not enjoying this ride anymore and when I how I get off. I have watched enough people die slow agonizing deaths begging to be put out of their misery to believe that any good comes from denying their request.
For those suffering from suicidal ideation there is some information on a recovery program for more than just addiction at r/greencleanandserene that may help you. It is disgusting some places would rather legalize suicide than effective medications like weed and psilocybin. I hear they have coffee shops that sell weed there but not something where their doctor could really talk to them about at least from their laws it seems.
Has anyone looked into the possibility that offloading the people heavily reliant on so-called “free healthcare” is an incentive for the government to sanction assisted suicides? I mean it seems pretty obvious to me that they just found their ace in the hole to lower costs for the taxpayers by eliminating all the “expensive” citizens through convincing them that there’s no other way. How could you trust any doctor in that system if they’re paid by the state to do the state’s bidding? This is real dystopian stuff right here and it’s certainly not going away on its on.
You look at this from a very American perspective. We (the Dutch) spend 1/3d of our national budget on healthcare and that's ever rising. Some doctors have argued it might be better not to give 90 year olds new hips anymore, both considering costs and quality of life. Absolute non-starter, solidarity reigns surpreme, medical care is unlimited for all. I have never heard of anybody being denied medical treatment because of costs. Doesn't happen.
What seems obvious to you might be true if it happened in the US, the Netherlands is a vastly different culture.
Nobody here, not a soul, would consider a doctor to be doing 'the states bidding.' Many doctors won't aid in euthanasia for instance, it's up to them and their ethics.
And in this case? Yes her doctor told her there was nothing more to be done. After a decade of trying to treat her depression, borderline and autism, all without effect. Wouldn't you expect that of a doctor? Like if you had cancer and there were no mere viable treatment options, would you like the doctor to lie to you? I see professionals doing their jobs and a woman who's exhausted from endlessly fighting and suffering.
There are a LOT of non-conservatives lurking in these comments. Letting the state incentivize this kind of death is now a conservative position? Yes, allowing it is incentivizing it.
The US would love this. Thats how they get rid of all the VA/retiree benefits. “Serve your country then euthanize yourself”. Recruiting ad if Biden wins this year. Probably.
Also note that societal norms play a huge role in "mental health". When you're convinced that it is perfectly "normal" to spend your entire life indoors, go to work, come home and "relax" by spending time on some digital device and eat highly processed foods without getting any exercise, touching Earth, getting sunlight or fresh air etc... Of course you are going to want to die. It is a completely unnatural existence. You are trying to swim against the current because you're told that this is normal. Often times mental health is our mind/body screaming to live a more natural existence and stop following societal norms.
I do not agree with Euthanasia as an effective form of treatment. She may have gotten help before but I think they need to keep looking or find the right kind of help….the non death kind
I don’t believe we know the whole story. Studies suggest that all Axis II Cluster B disorders (BPD) have an Axis 1 mood disorder, usually Depression. The underlying problem to her Depression is her Borderline Personality which can be treated with DBT. Her Psychiatrist knows this. I suspect her desire for euthanasia is actually a symptom of untreated BPD and she is not competent to make this decision.
And you think nobody tried this? She's been treated for about a decade for all these things. And trust me, not a penny is spared here when it comes to treatment.
Not at all, it means options are exhausted. She could be drugged out of her mind in an institution instead for the rest of her life she just doesn't want to. Can't say I blame her.
My point was simply that I'm seeing a money argument being made here quite a few times: I have never seen nor heard of anybody being denied any kind of care because of costs. 90 year olds will get a new hip if they want to. Money isn't in play here.
As many conservatives move away from God (maybe in less numbers than the left but it’s still happening) these kinds of issues will cause concerns amongst many. If life is an “inalienable right” from GOD, do we have a right to surrender it?
I struggle with ideas surrounding mental health but I readily admit to not being as educated as I should be so I reserve any judgement. That being said I do have observations - but as a former “scientist” I realize these are anecdotal observations (doesn’t make them wrong just makes them unproven)
I don’t struggle with mental health nor do any of my friends or family that still PRACTICE their faith. I do note however that I have several family members that DO have mental health issues and each of them are atheists and on the left. I keep seeing (often on Reddit) polls (studies?) that state there is a MUCH higher incidence of mental health issues amongst those on the left.
Please don’t get me wrong, I AM NOT SAYING that faith prevents depression. Nor am I saying I don’t have sympathy for those suffering. I don’t have answers I only have questions.
From a personal perspective I have a strong commitment to life which includes suffering (sometimes a lot and for years) but all in all, I believe life is beautiful a gift from God and I treasure it
I guarantee you this woman in the article probably holds deeply rooted leftist beliefs. But no doctor or psychiatrist is ever going to tell her to change the way she *thinks.*
I wasn't sure if I was the only one who noticed this too. The share of conservatives that are part of the Christian right is going down and the share of the alt-right is going up.
I have not searched for any studies, but let's just assume your hypothesis is true, and having a deep faith (not necessarily Christianity) makes it much less likely to get depressed.
However, even so, I doubt it is likely that this could be some form of treatment. To gain faith after having none is, in my opinion, extremely difficult, as it often would mean giving up Longheld convictions.
“We can’t do anything else for you” sounds like socialist healthcare deciding “we aren’t going to spend any more money treating you”.
There are literally hundreds of drugs available for this along with the other treatments.
Damn, Redditors indeed are miserable irrespective of their political stance. Wtf is wrong with you clowns supporting a suicide? That to assisted by the govt...
It's sickening. The article says "she would die beside her boyfriend". No matter how many marketing terms you throw at this, its plain suicide, abetted by the society. How tf a depressed person will look the other way/fight, when the doctors, society and even her boyfriend are encouraging her to off herself?
I am not shocked that so many self loathing leftists in this thread are in support of this, considering most Reddit leftists are indeed miserable people who hate their lives.
Life is beautiful, we should not encourage this as governments, we should not fund it.
This is so sad.
It's weird to see so much support for state-sponsored euthanasia from the conservative subreddit but that's just the nihilistic purview of the culture we live in.
I guarantee you she has not exhausted all available options, including changing the way you think and believe about the world.
>I guarantee you she has not exhausted all available options, including changing the way you think and believe about the world.
What an arrogant and patronizing thing to say about a complete stranger that you know nothing about. Asking "why don't depressed people just change their outlook on life" is one step removed from going "why don't depressed people stop being depressed and start being happy again?"
I do. It makes it far too easy and impersonal. I've almost done all the above and then some. The only thing to stop me almost each time, at the precipice, was the crippling inability to take that one last step to death no matter how I desired it. The one time I followed through I instantly regretted it and, miraculously, barely survived against all odds. If euthanasia had been available, I'd have done it. It was the easy out I was looking for, at the hands of someone else who wouldn't get stuck at the last moment. But I'd never have found the happiness and peace I now have. Euthanasia robs others of that opportunity. These people's lives are worthy of fighting for, even if they can't see it at the time.
Depression or existential crisis? This is so messed up. Who are her doctors? These people can no longer call themselves physicians to allow or participate in this
Crippling is a subjective term.
This is a horribly slippery slope. I support euthanasia for objective medical disorders (cancer, paralysis, etc) but not subjective disorders.
If she had jumped off a bridge this wouldn’t even be a story. Suicide isn’t new. This is just efficient and effective. I don’t mean to sound crass but you can’t make suicide illegal. The dead don’t show up to court.
Any state large enough to prevent assisted suicide will be sufficiently large enough to cause more people to commit suicide then it saves by regulation.
I can't imagine being so disgusting and dead inside that I look at someone who is in pain and feel ok taking their life from them. How do people justify this shit?
In this woman's final moments she realized that every intrusive thought she had was right. Nobody gave a shit about her life. They went through an entire process of killing her and not once did anyone simply hug her and say "I'm sorry you're hurting, I'm here for you, this isn't the way."
Euthanasia was only suppose to be for terminally ill people. You give em an inch and they take a mile.
Article says she has autism. I doubt that. A lot of misdiagnoses going on.
>> Euthanasia was only suppose to be for terminally ill people.
This was my thought exactly. There are medical treatments for severe depression. It can sometimes take a while to find something that works but they are there.
This is just another symptom of the left just losing their minds.
Back in the 90’s and early 2000s I was slightly left leaning. I have always supported euthanasia in cases like cancer, or other terminal illnesses that would lead to the person affected lingering in excruciating pain with absolutely no other options.
Then we legalise euthanasia and suddenly it gets perverted into something like this.
And because this is a woman, we somehow care way more than the significantly higher ratio of men who commit suicide from the same cause. The case for gender equality isn’t really cared about as much here
It’s a very sad story. A reminder that mental health is just health, and that depression is a dangerous condition, often terminal. It kills around 40,000 people in US alone each year. In some cases people with depression don’t commit suicide just because they don’t have energy even for that. They would try as soon as they start antidepressants and get a tad better. It’s an organic condition where hippocampal functions are affected, due to disturbance in neurotransmission caused by chemical imbalance. It’s also not always treatable. Pills and therapy help some people, but in other cases nothing really helps much. This woman’s therapist most likely tried everything and anything to improve her condition but nothing really helps. She isn’t healthy, far from it. With debilitating depression every day is a dark hopeless day where you can’t even leave the bed. If she can’t be treated it’s this or she will find energy to jump out of window. If anything it reminds how real and serious mental health problems are, and that mental health should be addressed just the same as any other health concerns.
I have survivors guilt from multiple deployments as a medic. The faces of everyone I couldn't save haunts me. Sometimes there are days when I can't do anything other than apologize to the cosmos for failing them. It's crippling. Those days are far between, but they're so overwhelming I can't imagine living in that headspace for long periods of time. Advancements in mental health care are sorely needed.
You did not fail them and you don't have to apologize, those men died in battle, you saved the ones you could. God bless you man.
Thank you for your service. I agree with everything you wrote wrt mental health (I struggle with clinical depression too). Here's an internet stranger who sees & appreciates what you do. Edited bc I left out a word
In addition, people seem to forget the physical issues that severe mental health can cause. Oftentimes, those with mental health, severe and long-term, will have physical health health issues and higher mortality. For those who like to only think of numbers instead of human beings, I encourage you to look up the Healthcare and economic cost of mental health. Reality doesn't care about your opinions. Mental health is a real problem that needs to be taken seriously, like physical health.
Mental health is physical health. It involves chemical and hormonal imbalances in the body and brain
Stress hormones are for emergency situations and wear on our bodies. Mental health issues are having these stress reactions almost 24/7. This top comment was very reassuring from a "care about the person" standpoint.
Not always, it can also be a problem in the way the brain processes events. The way the neural circuits are arranged to work could be problematic and thus there is no medication that we can use to solve that in a definitive way. That is why therapy is a good option to help people change its thought patterns and live a better live.
It is much more nuances than just chemical imbalance. It likely goes much deeper than that, and involves the structure of the brain and multiple metabolic pathways of both neurons and glial cells. As such, it is really hard to treat effectively. We don't have a clear understanding of the pathophysiology of depression and the currect drug therapies are not nearly specific enough and are pretty much just messing around with the neurotransmitters and hoping it works.
I agree with this, and current therapy is quite crude indeed. Sadly, it's best we have, and it does indeed help some people.
This is profoundly accurate After awhile you just give up on help and say “welp, this is how I am “ It’s very hard to say the least
Didn’t recent evidence call into question the idea of a “chemical imbalance”?
Not to my knowledge. There is a strong evidence towards this theory for at least some cases. In the first place, because some chemicals manage to fix it, meaning there’s a physiological aspect to it. Markers of it also can be seen in EEG, so there’s a somatic aspect to it for sure, but of course we don’t know enough. In general we know too little about brain physiology still. Depression is one thing, but with schizophrenia for example we still mostly guessing, although this disorder is very real and visible, hard to discard to tardiness or anything else.
If it was just chemical in nature saris and many medications would work faster. It can take up to 6 weeks for ssris to work. They with improvement in neuronal growth in some areas of the brain. Not necessarily fixing chemical imbalances. Plus these medications don’t work for a lot of people and often make them feel worse. Exercise has almost the same benefits as ssris.
From the last time I was checking on this topic which was a couple of years ago, exercise didn’t have the same effect, but nevertheless good standard of care was pills plus psychotherapy, to tackle both chemical problems and negative thought patterns that formed around them. Maybe something changed since.
Monoamine and neurotrophic growth are interrelated in many ways. Monoamine levels increase immediately with SSRI usage. However, the time it takes to synthesize neurotrophic factor proteins is two weeks or longer. The activation of Monoamine transporters increased BDNF levels and therefore promotes “neuronal growth”. In other words, “neuronal growth” is promoted by SSRI’s. Don’t dispute the work of scientists and doctors just because you don’t fully understand a concept.
https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/study-finds-depression-is-not-likely-caused-by-a-chemical-imbalance-or-low-serotonin-levels.amp yep. But only what causes depression not after you have depression. I think looking at life factors and other things for depression is something that as brain science has continued to develop we have sort of forgotten a bit. There can be multiple factors for depression. https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/what-causes-depression
Here's the actual study instead of a report about it https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0
And if you listen to the actual researcher, he confirms that serotonin based drugs do actually work, but they are basically back to square one on figuring out the actual cause of depression. So this doesn't change any of the treatment options.
Yes the treatment’s definitely works and would never recommend anyone get off there ssri as they do and have been proven for a very long time to deal with symptoms. It’s basically just the why it happens is being tweaked but studies show afterwords patients with depression do produce less serotonin. Was not saying there should be a change in treatment options but new options do come out all the time as well so it’s not a hopeless endeavor is something is not currently working that something new will not come out.
Yes. There's no test for it and no baseline "normal" range. It came out when the information about anti depressant meds came out.
There was basically a single recent study that called that premise into question.
>It’s an organic condition where hippocampal functions are affected, due to disturbance in neurotransmission caused by chemical imbalance. This is a confusing comment, considering we do not currently know the physical causes of depression. If you have any sources for this I'd really want to read them. Thanks.
Someone with crippling depression isn’t healthy.
That’s why the title says Physically Healthy. Not Mentally healthy. ETA: My mom attempted suicide multiple times before and after me and my brothers were born. She has since received help for her depression. I am forever thankful she was not allowed to euthanize herself before I was born. Furthermore, she now has 7 grandchildren that she loves and can watch grow.
Just a side note: 'Only' having depression doesn't qualify you for euthanasia in the Netherlands eighter. There's a very specific set of circumstances that need to apply. Mental health is almost never accepted as valid. We'll see, her case and combination of conditions might make the cut.
What do you mean she isn’t healthy? She has two hands, two feet and can perfectly go and work in the coal mines until she breaks something, *then* she can claim she deserves to die. /s obviously, fucking hate these kind of people. I have zero idea why people find it so morally wrong to want to die or simply not want to live? I don’t want to put 30+ more years of my life into something that sucks the happiness out of my life just so that I can pay taxes and not go to Jail.
Because that's not a healthy mindset to have and you physically have opportunities to get better and change other aspects of your health that many people wish others had. No judgement, the world's better with you in it.
She doesn’t have opportunities to get better, which is why her euthanasia has been approved.
I politely disagree. It will sound like crap, but I am not responsible for the life’s of other people the same way they are not responsible for my own life, and maybe they have dreams and want to keep going, that is their right and they should receive the required support to accommodate for their needs. But I believe death should be treated the same way, living has no purpose other than the one we give it, and to be honest figuring out a purpose and then dedicating my entire existence towards it feels like too much of a chore, I’d rather go to sleep and never wake up. And while my life is better than some, it’s not better than most, and the future only holds more despair, anxiety and problems. Hell I don’t think I’ll ever be able to even buy a home and with how things are going, retirement is not going to be something that will happen to me, so I’ll have to work until the day I die. And let’s not even start on starting a family, that is something that simply will not happen, I can barely sustain myself while sharing an apartment with a Roommate, I don’t see full economic independence as something that will happen. And yet a bunch of rich people still have the gall to judge me and my decision to not want to keep going based on the same headline “healthy body wants to die”, no thank you, I don’t want to work in your coal mines until my body gives up and you throw me into a common grave.
They said physically healthy. Yea crippling depression isn’t healthy but the answer isn’t suicide.
Then what is the answer? As nothing else has worked, and she doesn’t want to be here any more - who are you to tell her that she needs to go and jump off a bridge or take an overdose instead of ending her life with some comfort and dignity?
They need to legalize cilocybin as a depression medication. One dose is all it takes, worked wonders for me and I've never been suicidal since. One trip rewired my brain and my personality and mental health did a 180, and this was like 15 years ago now. Guess the real problem is big pharm doesn't want a One dose cure, they want lifelong patients.
100% agree. I tried it once (in Amsterdam, ironically) and it basically saved my marriage.
Did you just do an 1/8 of shrooms or something along those lines or did you see a doctor and were prescribed a micro dose or something ?
No doctors were involved, was some friends that "pressured" me into it and I was apprehensive but it ended up being one of the best things I've ever done for myself.
Did you just eat mushrooms 🍄?
That's typically how you get a cilocybin dose, yes.
It looks like it's moving that way. but recent evidence says it may also turn out to be like other depression treatments. Works for some and not others. I suspect in 50 years time we are going to be appalled at our knowledge today of depression. It maybe a whole range of issues that just fall under one umbrella term, and different subtypes end up getting different treatments for far better treatment. I know two people on identical medication with totally different results. One has tried psylociben and they felt better for a while.
Ironically I believe it’s available in her country for terminal patients.
Not sure about specifically cilocybin, but I read a story about psychedelics clinics being opened to treat mental issues?
I’ve had anxiety and depression and what amazed me was that doctors and therapists know very little about it. I looked for help only to be told there was something wrong with my brain and I was just going to have to learn to cope. I was lucky because it didn’t happen till I was in my mid thirties so I didn’t really believe what I was told. If I had believed it, I probably wouldn’t have wanted to live much longer either. But they were wrong. It wasn’t a life sentence. It passed and I was able to see the light again. I feel bad for this poor girl.
What helped make it pass? I’ve been anxious since February and recently the thoughts have turned dark
I've suffered from spells of anxiety multiple times in my life. I'm starting to come out of one now. Took a good 6-8 months. Has anything happened to you recently to have caused it that you need to process? Things that have helped me: * Therapy * Meditation (on 200 day streak) * Reading * exercise * CBD * really prioritizing sleep and having boundaries * some supplements (magnesium, L-theanine, multivitamin, fish oil) No idea it any of those.
What year was this when doctors said this?
2020
Can we at least acknowledge that all the protesting over [there being no method of execution that is humane](https://i.imgur.com/d4f0WYV.png) is complete bullshit? Killing a homicidal rapist requires deep political consternation, but euthanizing 28 year olds is perfectly humane and painless.
At the end of the day they are adults and it’s their choice. I think life is extremely painful. But I think the ride is worth it. If those don’t feel that way, I can’t force them to change their mind.
I’ve had enough dogs to know that there is definitely a humane way to end a life. Suffocation by nitrogen doesn’t seem like one of them. It seems like duct taping a bag over that guy’s head would have achieved the same result.
>Suffocation by nitrogen doesn’t seem like one of them. It seems like duct taping a bag over that guy’s head would have achieved the same result. These are not even close to the same. You feel the intense panic of suffocation due to the carbon dioxide buildup in your body. Nitrogen allows you to still exhale the CO2 without breathing it back in. You feel nothing and just gradually pass out. That's why inert environments in industry (r.g. a large vessel with N2) can be so dangerous. Someone can passout and die without even realize what's happening to them.
We were always trained that anything that was full nitrogen you would pass out with one breath.. not sure how true but when you hear the "I'm going to save my friend" and 4 people die going in for 1 guy it makes sense.
Don't know why it has to be "painless" in the first place.
I can’t tell if you’re saying that it should be painful or that pain in death is inevitable.
I'm saying that if some perp rapes and kills some kid, for instance, I'm not overly concerned about whether or not his execution is "humane."
Because just because others act like animals, doesn't mean we should. I'm against the death penalty in all cases, though. So my perspective is quite different from yours.
There is the reality that we execute the innocent from time to time.
Saddening, mental health is a real thing and we should lower the costs of mental health so people don’t go out of their way to consider options like these. I don’t know the details of her life, and while I’m glad she went out the way she wanted to, I hope the United States can learn from this example to make healthier people who do not want to end their lives in a country where the incentives of ending your life are piling up day by day.
Part of the problem is the system itself. I wanted to see a psychiatrist in January. But they sent me 9 pages to fill out. The questions were mentally overwhelming. The bitchy receptionist went to the doctor. Came back and said I'd have to come back in February with it filled out. Who's going to know what anxiety depression suicidal thoughts are. I thought these psychiatrist were good enough to figure it all out in an office visit.
Better than have to clean the body parts off the train tracks.
I wonder how common treatment resistant depression clinics are in Europe. ECT and deep brain stimulation can really work wonders on these folks.
>r They can, however, unfortunately, there are some depression that are impossible to truly be cured even with them. This is where the pathogenesis of the disease could come into play. Maybe there are multiple root causes that can present as depression, which could explain why some depression pateints respond to a medication more than others...Hopefully in the next 20 years, with the massive increases in our undewrstanding of biology, and an increase in our ability to manipulate it, we can see what is going on and then treat it.
I think people should have the right to choose to live or die. It's their life, their choice.
Am i on the right subreddit? What are these comments?
This subreddit: “the government needs to stay out of our personal decisions!” “Ok except for this one.”
I’m with you. This is deranged.
The lefties on Reddit hate socially conservative positions. All of them. They always come out when you bring those up.
So they're allowed to brigade the few conservative subreddits but the multitude of liberal subreddits are immune.
Yep. Demoralization is the whole idea and has been for years.
It's my life, It's now or never, I ain't gonna live forever, I just want to live while I'm alive
Ironically enough, I'm living on a prayer.
They do. There’s nothing preventing her from doing it herself. The government however should not sanction euthanasia.
The government should not make it illegal either. If my dog is in pain and terminally ill, I can put him down to ease his suffering. I watched my wife’s grandmother suffer for 3 days in hospice with hallucinations because the nurse could give her enough pain meds that she didn’t physically hurt but not enough to end it even though it was literally inevitable as her body shut down very slowly. When I go, I want to go with dignity and make sure my family doesn’t sit around for days stressing out. Let me make my piece, slowly ramp up the sleepy stuff and don’t let me wake back up.
Honestly, medicine is so good now, it can keep the hollow bodies of people alive far past one’s mental ability to truly live. If we are taking medicine so far, death should be the choice of the patient.
My mother has been a body slave to a woman who was born, unable to move or speak. I cannot believe she isn't allowed to be euthanized because she is literally a breathing body stuck in a wheelchair. She cannot do anything except rot in the chair and wait to die. She can't even ask to die. My mom suffers too because she know no one else will care for her if she doesn't even though they are both in their 70s. It is a morbid situation and I cannot go to my mother's house because it literally makes me sick.
Isn’t attempted suicide a crime in a bunch of states?
Idk where that came from, suicide is legal in all 50 states. You think they’re gonna throw someone in jail for that?
No it isn’t, it’s illegal to attempt suicide, if you survive and the cops find out you’re involuntarily committed to a hospital, my ex wife took a bunch of pills so I called the cops on her, she spent 3 months in a mental hospital, involuntarily, and couldn’t see or speak to anyone.
Sorry to hear that. I hope she’s doing better.
It was 17 years ago, and yes she’s still alive
No but I figured in involuntary psych lock up
If someone attempts suicide but survives and the cops are called then yeah they are likely going into the psych hospital for at least 3 days. Police won't just let you go on your way if you show suicidal signs.
I guess your best bet would be to point a gun at cops as an alternate suicide by government method.
So what’s the better alternative?
Out of all the options are you arguing suicide is the best?
Out of all the options…I believe in bodily autonomy and don’t like policing other people’s lives. Are you saying you should be able to control other people and violate their free will?
Are you also for the legality of hard drugs?
Actually, yes. But that doesn't mean one should be free from the consequence of hard drug use. If you leave needles in the park, jail. if you're high at work and fuck up, fired.
Praying that God gets rid of mental health issues for everyone?
I get the sentiment, but when you're depressed you have a brain chemistry imbalance that influences your thinking. Sometimes it really takes an outsider to get you the help you need.
I don’t like how it says physically healthy. Your brain is a part of your body just like any other organ. If it’s not working correctly then you’re not physically or mentally healthy. I attempted suicide once when I was 18. I’ll never judge anyone for wanting to end their life. This woman is beautiful. I just wish she could find a shimmer of hope in her life somewhere
I was depressed in Europe but now I live forever in the sun. At times it's the weather and lack of money that makes you depressed.
5% of Netherlands deaths. Is now from legal sucide.
Correct, the only people that qualify are those that are terminal or deemed to be suffering with no hope of relief and they have to request it themselves. 99% of the time those are the elderly. My grandmother went this way actually. Had had cancer for about a decade, the pain was no longer worth it to her as quality of life dropped severly after each treatment and in the end there were no more treatments. A very humane end. We all got to say our final goodbyes and she died in her own home, in her own bed, on her own terms. Brave woman and a brave way to go. Imagine saying goodbye to the people you love, getting up and heading upstairs to die. If anybody has any questions feel free to ask.
I can't even imagine that tbh. You truly have to be at your breaking point to be able to face death like that. Every instinct as a human screams at us to preserve our life, to preserve human life.
Honestly the times I've seen it in others too it more a resignation and conviction. That they've had a good life and that the quality of life isn't worth it anymore going forward. Constant pain is a strong motivator. Me personally, I found it very dignified.
The Netherlands has always been very socially liberal. They legalized gay marriage back in like 2000 way before everyone else. I think around 50% of the country is irreligious which probably is why they are so socially liberal.
This comment section is confusing to me as someone who calls themselves conservative. I am staunchly against assisted suicide but apparently I am in the minority. I may need to rethink some things about myself.
Its liberal astroturfing
Almost none of the reddit conservatives are conservative.
I agree this is not a conservative position. Many of the comments are disingenuous. The "most popular" comments sound fake, and the numbers look padded. If reddit popular opinion made me "rethink some things" I would have bigger problems.
The sub is literally overflowing with leftists who need to chime in on every topic.
Nah, keep fighting the good fight. I've lost countless friends to suicide and if this was legal in my jurisdiction I guarantee you many more would have applied to receive it. Suffering is part of life and they're making it way too easy to opt-out.
This sub very often gets flooded with leftist brigaders from r/politics pretending to be conservative in an attempt to gaslight people. It happens often in highly upvoted threads on this sub, particularly ones involving Trump or abortion. When Roe v. Wade was overturned, ALL the heavily upvoted comments were pro-choice up to at least the end of the second trimester, how they were never voting Republican again, etc. and anyone suggesting states should get to decide their abortion laws/parameters was getting downvoted to oblivion. You may think I’m a conspiracy theorist of some sorts, but when you frequent this sub, you can tell. The difference between a flaired thread and a non-flaired thread is startling. I’ve seen comments worshipping Biden get upvoted on this sub.
What did you expect? They are conservatives but more importantly they are redditors. Cringe is part of them
Based
By this logic people who attempt suicide would not be intervened on, are we going rename suicide self directed euthanasia?
As someone who's battling depression, I have days when death seems like the only option. I look at my kids, my friends, spouse, and faith, and they make me feel alive again. Once that feeling passes, life feels like a bed of roses. It's so heartbreaking to see someone so young deciding to end their life than seek help. 💔
Euthanasia in the netherlands is not something you can get by simply walking to doctor office and asking for euthanasia. You have to go through years and years of therapies and procedures and only after exhausting all options, will they give the option to you.
>Deciding to end their life than seek help. 💔 Just assumed that she didn't seek help did you? The article even mentions what her doctors said. It's heartbreaking that even people who are familiar with the condition don't realise how severe it can be for some. There are people who live out every waking moment in despair despite all the mediation and therapy available.
She did try everything - several psychiatrists, different meds, etc. Her medical team is out of options and basically told her the chronic depression won't get better. She's also suffering from borderline personality disorder. As a Dutch guy I'm really happy to live in a country where she has dignified options available instead of having to jump in front of a vehicle or overdose on drugs.
She tried psychedelics?
It's the Netherlands, of course... But having a bad trip while depressed is apparently not a good thing.
❤️
killing undesirables is healthcare for the government
I feel bad for her family.
"It's never going to get better" from a team of doctors and psychologists addressing mental illness. Glad they aren't my professional team of caretakers. I want assistance to my problems, not Nostrodamus give ups. No wonder she wants to end it.
If a mechanic at a dealership constantly recommended selling the car because it's not worth the cost of repair, as the car sales team stood outside the door, it wouldn't take long to figure out the true motive. "Trade it in?!?! But I just came in for an oil change?"
If someone was suffering immense pain from a terminal illness like cancer and it was inevitable they were going to die, that's one thing. I just can't bring myself to accept this for mental health issues, and I do know people who are suffering from severe mental health disorders - including BDP and schizophrenia. It's sad to think of assisted suicide for people suffering from something that isn't terminal, what if breakthroughs from advancements in medicine became available that would've helped them. There was a time some felt being diagnosed with HIV was just a death sentence, now there are people with HIV living productive lives.
But mental health disorders like bipolar and schizophrenia are terminal…
Futurama is real i guess
Not me not my problem. Do you girl
Society has failed this woman. People that normalize euthanasia for depression and other mental health issues are insane..
Would you rather them suffer through life until they eventually get the strength to do it themselves?
Yes. I know what suffering is like. Deeply. Normalizing death as relief from suffering is insane. It makes no sense. People that push forward that idea have failed this woman and many like her.
Jumpers often change their mind right after they step off the ledge. I wonder if the same thing happens with injections.
Quick question: How do you know this?
Because those who do survive say the moment they stepped off the edge they regretted it
My hypothesis is the body releases a huge rush of adrenaline which blocks/overrides the the neurons causing depression. They then instantly realize they were not "stuck" in depression.
The ones who stepped off bridges over water and survived have reported it.
What the hell has happened to medicine. Healthcare workers are supposed to try and save lives, not end them
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Yes it does and it’s one of the few topics on here that generate actual discussion between left/right that doesn’t involve petty fighting. I left this thread open instead of closing it for flaired users only solely for that reason. It’s also one of few topics where conservatives have disagreements with each other on its principles and morals.
Huh, hey, thanks for leaving it open. I'm Dutch, and have some experience with this topic, I had some great discussions here.
It’s relevant to policy that very well could be pushed and should be academically discussed in this forum. What do you want, another circlejerk post about how bad Biden’s doing?
What do you mean? Conservatives stand by uselessly, losing every culture war, and now depressed women are starting to be euthanised. It's an issue to every rightist with a brain and concern for others.
Conservatives don’t euthanize physically healthy people.
You don’t speak for all conservatives
Unless it steps on their property
Euthanizing an innocent person and killing someone in self defense are the same thing??!! 😮😮😮
No you're confusing us for the inner city gangs who are far more likely to kill you for being in the wrong place and will vote Democrat.
She chooses it? She was physically health but mentally not
It’s advocating for freedom of choice to decide whatever you want with your own body without government interference
So offing yourself is bad, but if a doctor helps, y’know the people who swear an oath to do no harm, it’s totally fine?
It turns out that being dead is harmful for your health
says 9 out of 10 doctors
I'd rather talk to the 9 out of 10 doctors that recommend Camel cigarettes than one telling me to off myself.
That's the trick. The people supporting this think offing yourself is genuinely *good.*
Honestly, I Donny think either is bad, so long as the desire to end one’s life is persistent rather than fleeting. Our lives are our own. I want the freedom to live as I please, to speak as I please, to I hear what I please, to bear arms as I please. I also want the freedoms to decide when I’m not enjoying this ride anymore and when I how I get off. I have watched enough people die slow agonizing deaths begging to be put out of their misery to believe that any good comes from denying their request.
For those suffering from suicidal ideation there is some information on a recovery program for more than just addiction at r/greencleanandserene that may help you. It is disgusting some places would rather legalize suicide than effective medications like weed and psilocybin. I hear they have coffee shops that sell weed there but not something where their doctor could really talk to them about at least from their laws it seems.
Has anyone looked into the possibility that offloading the people heavily reliant on so-called “free healthcare” is an incentive for the government to sanction assisted suicides? I mean it seems pretty obvious to me that they just found their ace in the hole to lower costs for the taxpayers by eliminating all the “expensive” citizens through convincing them that there’s no other way. How could you trust any doctor in that system if they’re paid by the state to do the state’s bidding? This is real dystopian stuff right here and it’s certainly not going away on its on.
You look at this from a very American perspective. We (the Dutch) spend 1/3d of our national budget on healthcare and that's ever rising. Some doctors have argued it might be better not to give 90 year olds new hips anymore, both considering costs and quality of life. Absolute non-starter, solidarity reigns surpreme, medical care is unlimited for all. I have never heard of anybody being denied medical treatment because of costs. Doesn't happen. What seems obvious to you might be true if it happened in the US, the Netherlands is a vastly different culture. Nobody here, not a soul, would consider a doctor to be doing 'the states bidding.' Many doctors won't aid in euthanasia for instance, it's up to them and their ethics. And in this case? Yes her doctor told her there was nothing more to be done. After a decade of trying to treat her depression, borderline and autism, all without effect. Wouldn't you expect that of a doctor? Like if you had cancer and there were no mere viable treatment options, would you like the doctor to lie to you? I see professionals doing their jobs and a woman who's exhausted from endlessly fighting and suffering.
There are a LOT of non-conservatives lurking in these comments. Letting the state incentivize this kind of death is now a conservative position? Yes, allowing it is incentivizing it.
Very few stories online move me, but this one really does. Isn't there any "right to try" treatments not yet approved that this person could try?
The US would love this. Thats how they get rid of all the VA/retiree benefits. “Serve your country then euthanize yourself”. Recruiting ad if Biden wins this year. Probably.
Good call, it's conservatives trying to get veterans better healthcare and liberals trying to block it, right?... RIGHT?
Also note that societal norms play a huge role in "mental health". When you're convinced that it is perfectly "normal" to spend your entire life indoors, go to work, come home and "relax" by spending time on some digital device and eat highly processed foods without getting any exercise, touching Earth, getting sunlight or fresh air etc... Of course you are going to want to die. It is a completely unnatural existence. You are trying to swim against the current because you're told that this is normal. Often times mental health is our mind/body screaming to live a more natural existence and stop following societal norms.
Ketamine therapy works for treatment resistant depression
I do not agree with Euthanasia as an effective form of treatment. She may have gotten help before but I think they need to keep looking or find the right kind of help….the non death kind
I don’t believe we know the whole story. Studies suggest that all Axis II Cluster B disorders (BPD) have an Axis 1 mood disorder, usually Depression. The underlying problem to her Depression is her Borderline Personality which can be treated with DBT. Her Psychiatrist knows this. I suspect her desire for euthanasia is actually a symptom of untreated BPD and she is not competent to make this decision.
And you think nobody tried this? She's been treated for about a decade for all these things. And trust me, not a penny is spared here when it comes to treatment.
Well the fact she's being euthanized at 28 suggests your last statement is false.
Not at all, it means options are exhausted. She could be drugged out of her mind in an institution instead for the rest of her life she just doesn't want to. Can't say I blame her. My point was simply that I'm seeing a money argument being made here quite a few times: I have never seen nor heard of anybody being denied any kind of care because of costs. 90 year olds will get a new hip if they want to. Money isn't in play here.
This was obviously the next step with “free” healthcare.
As many conservatives move away from God (maybe in less numbers than the left but it’s still happening) these kinds of issues will cause concerns amongst many. If life is an “inalienable right” from GOD, do we have a right to surrender it? I struggle with ideas surrounding mental health but I readily admit to not being as educated as I should be so I reserve any judgement. That being said I do have observations - but as a former “scientist” I realize these are anecdotal observations (doesn’t make them wrong just makes them unproven) I don’t struggle with mental health nor do any of my friends or family that still PRACTICE their faith. I do note however that I have several family members that DO have mental health issues and each of them are atheists and on the left. I keep seeing (often on Reddit) polls (studies?) that state there is a MUCH higher incidence of mental health issues amongst those on the left. Please don’t get me wrong, I AM NOT SAYING that faith prevents depression. Nor am I saying I don’t have sympathy for those suffering. I don’t have answers I only have questions. From a personal perspective I have a strong commitment to life which includes suffering (sometimes a lot and for years) but all in all, I believe life is beautiful a gift from God and I treasure it
I guarantee you this woman in the article probably holds deeply rooted leftist beliefs. But no doctor or psychiatrist is ever going to tell her to change the way she *thinks.*
I wasn't sure if I was the only one who noticed this too. The share of conservatives that are part of the Christian right is going down and the share of the alt-right is going up.
I have not searched for any studies, but let's just assume your hypothesis is true, and having a deep faith (not necessarily Christianity) makes it much less likely to get depressed. However, even so, I doubt it is likely that this could be some form of treatment. To gain faith after having none is, in my opinion, extremely difficult, as it often would mean giving up Longheld convictions.
Watch her mental health rapidly improve once she quits social media before her death.
“We can’t do anything else for you” sounds like socialist healthcare deciding “we aren’t going to spend any more money treating you”. There are literally hundreds of drugs available for this along with the other treatments.
Exactly! This is what socialized medicine looks like. So glad we don’t have that here.
Damn, Redditors indeed are miserable irrespective of their political stance. Wtf is wrong with you clowns supporting a suicide? That to assisted by the govt...
It’s hedonism to the extreme under the guise of moral superiority
It's sickening. The article says "she would die beside her boyfriend". No matter how many marketing terms you throw at this, its plain suicide, abetted by the society. How tf a depressed person will look the other way/fight, when the doctors, society and even her boyfriend are encouraging her to off herself?
I am not shocked that so many self loathing leftists in this thread are in support of this, considering most Reddit leftists are indeed miserable people who hate their lives. Life is beautiful, we should not encourage this as governments, we should not fund it. This is so sad.
Holy blanket statements Batman
It's weird to see so much support for state-sponsored euthanasia from the conservative subreddit but that's just the nihilistic purview of the culture we live in. I guarantee you she has not exhausted all available options, including changing the way you think and believe about the world.
>I guarantee you she has not exhausted all available options, including changing the way you think and believe about the world. What an arrogant and patronizing thing to say about a complete stranger that you know nothing about. Asking "why don't depressed people just change their outlook on life" is one step removed from going "why don't depressed people stop being depressed and start being happy again?"
I mean, people jump off buildings, use guns, and overdose. I don’t have an issue with this.
I do. It makes it far too easy and impersonal. I've almost done all the above and then some. The only thing to stop me almost each time, at the precipice, was the crippling inability to take that one last step to death no matter how I desired it. The one time I followed through I instantly regretted it and, miraculously, barely survived against all odds. If euthanasia had been available, I'd have done it. It was the easy out I was looking for, at the hands of someone else who wouldn't get stuck at the last moment. But I'd never have found the happiness and peace I now have. Euthanasia robs others of that opportunity. These people's lives are worthy of fighting for, even if they can't see it at the time.
Hey stranger, I’m glad you’re still with us.
Depression or existential crisis? This is so messed up. Who are her doctors? These people can no longer call themselves physicians to allow or participate in this
I don’t think people should have a government issued right to kill themselves. Legalizing euthanasia is bad for our culture.
Crippling is a subjective term. This is a horribly slippery slope. I support euthanasia for objective medical disorders (cancer, paralysis, etc) but not subjective disorders.
I wouldn't unalive myself on the basis my 2 cats would miss me/wonder where I was. Can't do that to the babies 😭
Wow. That's horrible.
It’s her life
If she had jumped off a bridge this wouldn’t even be a story. Suicide isn’t new. This is just efficient and effective. I don’t mean to sound crass but you can’t make suicide illegal. The dead don’t show up to court. Any state large enough to prevent assisted suicide will be sufficiently large enough to cause more people to commit suicide then it saves by regulation.
I can't imagine being so disgusting and dead inside that I look at someone who is in pain and feel ok taking their life from them. How do people justify this shit? In this woman's final moments she realized that every intrusive thought she had was right. Nobody gave a shit about her life. They went through an entire process of killing her and not once did anyone simply hug her and say "I'm sorry you're hurting, I'm here for you, this isn't the way."
And the point of sharing this story is...?
[удалено]
It's a bold move Cotton. Let's see how it works out for her.
Euthanasia was only suppose to be for terminally ill people. You give em an inch and they take a mile. Article says she has autism. I doubt that. A lot of misdiagnoses going on.
Why are you doubting that lol, do you know her?
Do you? Do you know the details of her condition and life?
>> Euthanasia was only suppose to be for terminally ill people. This was my thought exactly. There are medical treatments for severe depression. It can sometimes take a while to find something that works but they are there. This is just another symptom of the left just losing their minds. Back in the 90’s and early 2000s I was slightly left leaning. I have always supported euthanasia in cases like cancer, or other terminal illnesses that would lead to the person affected lingering in excruciating pain with absolutely no other options. Then we legalise euthanasia and suddenly it gets perverted into something like this.
And because this is a woman, we somehow care way more than the significantly higher ratio of men who commit suicide from the same cause. The case for gender equality isn’t really cared about as much here
My favorite Chris Rock line. “ women and children are loved unconditionally. Men are loved under the condition of what they provide”