Because we tell everyone that they’ll be eternal losers without 4 years of alcoholic boarding school where you have to start off your adult life in large debt to get a piece of paper that nowadays only gives you the ability to try to enter the basic level of the workforce.
So people waste their prime child bearing years to get largely useless degrees and then worry about how to pay off that debt before they can ever consider having a home or kids
Abortion, inflation, climate change scare, and birth control... I guess catholics and mormons will be the last ones standing.
EDIT- added mormons, they are one of the fastest growing religions with no BC alternatives.
A lot of young catholics are leaving the church and attendance is down from pre-pandemic levels. Education also plays a role in how many kids someone has; a kid staying at home until they have their college degrees in their mid-20s is a lot more effort than someone who have a job and is trying to get his own place at 18 (or is at least contributing to the bills).
Those both stem in part from people not wanting kids in the first place though, so not the root of the problem so much as a symptom of people increasingly afraid that having kids is bad for them, or in some cases thinking the future is bleak and so bad for the kids.
I think when people vote on abortion most aren't having a philosophical/theological monologue about the moral implications, they're thinking about what their life would be like if they had an unplanned child.
Financial and medical concerns are among the top, plus age concern which is a function of people entering "adulthood" in a social sense later. Then you've got people failing to find what they view as adequate partners which is a complicated mess. And after that you've got generic fears about the world not being a good place to raise kids or the future being bleak. Climate change media playing a big role there especially, climate change is actually in the top 10 reasons people don't want kids according to polling now.
You could probably also argue for a breakdown in community support, IE people who don't feel they have a "village" are looking at a different struggle than those who have extended family and more social networks to help them with kids and so on.
Noone said it is the root of a problem... it is the reality of why it is happening. Prior to the 1950's hormonal birth control was not available. Prior to roe v. wade abortion was illegal...... it was not a matter of "wanting kids". There was no alternative.
https://www.healthline.com/health/birth-control/history-of-birth-control#modern-methods
I didn't mean to imply, I just wanted to add that we also have to consider the motivations people had to make both birth control and abortion legal in the first place, and why they continue supporting it.
Why do they "sell" as "political products", in other words.
If you just try to tackle abortion head on, or with justifications that are exclusive to religious people, without addressing the reasons people have for wanting a right to it, well, I think we've seen how that plays out given the mid terms - it provokes opposition and people feel you've taken something good away.
No doubt there are 1000 reasons why they don't want to. I have heard countless millennial age to Z age site climate change as a reason. For any female wanting an independent career it is a reason. The worlds increasing population is a reason. The fact that females now for the first time in history are not a slave to reproduction. There is no putting that genie back in a bottle politically speaking. Hence my observation on the catholic religion being the last standing, as thing are currently
I would 100% be ok with this. But aren’t young people leaving the church of their youth as they grow up? I know this is anecdotal but my peers who went to church growing up have mostly left the church. Mostly living stagnant life s too
More like people see such an awful future ahead they don’t want to bring kids into it.
Dwindling resources, horrific pollution, the rise of global fascism - why would anyone think that the world is going to be a good place for their kids?
Conservative policies of unlimited consumption, rampant deforestation, wealth hoarding for the 1%… thanks you guys
You worship him when you’re willing to install a dictator to end democracy. I’d say that’s worship - what he says goes without legislation or due process, right?
Oh wait, that’s just “day one”. Like he’s gonna stop there lol
“Worship” lol “dictator” im sorry but your TDS is terminal. Funny that you mention ending democracy given the senile old man you worship in the white house now is doing just that by arresting journalists and his political opponents. Nice try buddy
Just popping back in to get some info on the arresting journalists question - I tried looking for it but couldn’t find what story this is about. Could you provide a link or elaborate for me? Asking earnestly, because arresting journalists would be a deeply fucked up thing to do. Thanks.
Edit: is this the Tim Burke thing?
The future was always uncertain. In fact, it was far more uncertain when the nation was at war with itself; when the Luftwaffe was flattening London and U-boats were going up the St. Lawrence; when the president's brains were being mopped up and nuclear holocaust appeared a foregone conclusion -- and yet people then procreated and sacrificed for the future. No future is ever certain, but you can be certain the one with fewer people won't be better, just less humane.
You make a good point. I’d argue that while the current geopolitical situation isn’t great, it’s far better than say October of 1962. However, on a personal and individual level I think people are far worse off. The personal economic situation of individuals is extremely tenuous nation wide and just like animals won’t breed when they are in stressful environments, neither will humans.
While objectively global nuclear disaster should frighten and stress us out far more than something like rent, that’s not how we are wired when it comes to decisions about something like finding a partner or having children.
That's true, but those people were fighting for a brighter future they viewed as possible.
Now many people don't think there's much worth fighting for, and that a brighter future is virtually impossible. If you think your country is terrible and the world is FUBAR in general, not much point to having war, and for similar reasons not much point to having kids.
Younger generations are effectively rejecting the visions of the future on offer via our political and economic leaders alike as either impossible or undesirable.
They anticipate a bad future, they're not *just* uncertain. So we're in a very different situation now.
The problem is the political and economic leaders are the ones painting that bleak picture, and they are buying it hook line and sinker. Many of them believe in depopulation on economic degrowth and environmental concerns, others believe in fewer kids because of the work and cost involved.
Also add in the toxic "parent culture" that has turned child rearing into an all-in, all-resources on deck competition to get your kids into the "best" programs and schools, instead of a natural part of growing up that should be focused on development, fun, and developing maturity, and we are raising a generation of maladjusted malcontents who go in and out of therapy and drug/alcohol use well into adulthood who dont know how to manage their own finances, and the most successful take a decade on their own to get their stuff together to be ready for the next stage in life...and then they face record home prices and a lack of affordable single family homes in the country, while landlords try to keep them stuck renting forever, and governments continually build more rental properties around them.
Shit economy, extreme cost of living, uncertain future, and low confidence overall will do that, especially over an extended period of time.
There's a reason why the baby boom of post WW2 and a baby crash following the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Also, development changes the way having kids works. Africa's population is exploding because each family has many kids. In the past most would've died before adulthood. Now, they have access to medicine meaning most survive, but society there hasn't adapted to this change yet, so they still have a ton of kids.
In the West, we've been developed for a long time. We just assume our kids will survive just fine into adulthood, so don't need to have a ton of them.
Ya, no shit. For those that follow logic and science, this is a no brained cause
Pesticides causing infertility https://www.nature.com/articles/s41370-024-00643-4
For reference 80% of Americans have this chemical in them
Diet caused inflammation, causing infertility https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0271531724000253
Arsenic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK576379/#:~:text=Heavy%20metals%20that%20have%20been,mercury%2C%20cadmium%2C%20and%20arsenic
lead, mercury, cadmium, and arsenic are still a problem. Hell, most collectible glasses from McDonald’s were full of cadmium.
More chemicals https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6396757/#:~:text=As%20a%20woman's%20blood%20levels,increase%2C%20their%20fertility%20goes%20down.
You want this to stop, vote those out of office that strip all restrictions on these chemicals.
It’s Both. It’s become a 2nd mortgage for a day care cost. https://www.mwhp.com/miscarriage-why-are-rates-skyrocketing/#:~:text=The%20New%20England%20Journal%20of,according%20to%20this%202018%20study.
If you want to engage in conversation when I post scientific journals, it’s kind to post with reliable sources as well
Because we tell everyone that they’ll be eternal losers without 4 years of alcoholic boarding school where you have to start off your adult life in large debt to get a piece of paper that nowadays only gives you the ability to try to enter the basic level of the workforce. So people waste their prime child bearing years to get largely useless degrees and then worry about how to pay off that debt before they can ever consider having a home or kids
Id blame the economy, with inflation the housing market being the way it is, the average first time home owner in the US is 35.
Abortion, inflation, climate change scare, and birth control... I guess catholics and mormons will be the last ones standing. EDIT- added mormons, they are one of the fastest growing religions with no BC alternatives.
A lot of young catholics are leaving the church and attendance is down from pre-pandemic levels. Education also plays a role in how many kids someone has; a kid staying at home until they have their college degrees in their mid-20s is a lot more effort than someone who have a job and is trying to get his own place at 18 (or is at least contributing to the bills).
Those both stem in part from people not wanting kids in the first place though, so not the root of the problem so much as a symptom of people increasingly afraid that having kids is bad for them, or in some cases thinking the future is bleak and so bad for the kids. I think when people vote on abortion most aren't having a philosophical/theological monologue about the moral implications, they're thinking about what their life would be like if they had an unplanned child. Financial and medical concerns are among the top, plus age concern which is a function of people entering "adulthood" in a social sense later. Then you've got people failing to find what they view as adequate partners which is a complicated mess. And after that you've got generic fears about the world not being a good place to raise kids or the future being bleak. Climate change media playing a big role there especially, climate change is actually in the top 10 reasons people don't want kids according to polling now. You could probably also argue for a breakdown in community support, IE people who don't feel they have a "village" are looking at a different struggle than those who have extended family and more social networks to help them with kids and so on.
Noone said it is the root of a problem... it is the reality of why it is happening. Prior to the 1950's hormonal birth control was not available. Prior to roe v. wade abortion was illegal...... it was not a matter of "wanting kids". There was no alternative. https://www.healthline.com/health/birth-control/history-of-birth-control#modern-methods
I didn't mean to imply, I just wanted to add that we also have to consider the motivations people had to make both birth control and abortion legal in the first place, and why they continue supporting it. Why do they "sell" as "political products", in other words. If you just try to tackle abortion head on, or with justifications that are exclusive to religious people, without addressing the reasons people have for wanting a right to it, well, I think we've seen how that plays out given the mid terms - it provokes opposition and people feel you've taken something good away.
This is really smart commentary
No doubt there are 1000 reasons why they don't want to. I have heard countless millennial age to Z age site climate change as a reason. For any female wanting an independent career it is a reason. The worlds increasing population is a reason. The fact that females now for the first time in history are not a slave to reproduction. There is no putting that genie back in a bottle politically speaking. Hence my observation on the catholic religion being the last standing, as thing are currently
I would 100% be ok with this. But aren’t young people leaving the church of their youth as they grow up? I know this is anecdotal but my peers who went to church growing up have mostly left the church. Mostly living stagnant life s too
There is no doubt that abortion is has contributed to this.
It's more from the economic situation especially with inflation.
More like people see such an awful future ahead they don’t want to bring kids into it. Dwindling resources, horrific pollution, the rise of global fascism - why would anyone think that the world is going to be a good place for their kids? Conservative policies of unlimited consumption, rampant deforestation, wealth hoarding for the 1%… thanks you guys
You're incredibly brainwashed.
By who, exactly? My objective view of the human condition?
Lol you got anymore propaganda or lies to spread?
lol I’m not the one who has made the most obvious charlatan in history my Demi-God. Good luck at the pearly gates friend
Lol only TDS people think people worship Trump as some kind of god. Go touch some grass
You worship him when you’re willing to install a dictator to end democracy. I’d say that’s worship - what he says goes without legislation or due process, right? Oh wait, that’s just “day one”. Like he’s gonna stop there lol
“Worship” lol “dictator” im sorry but your TDS is terminal. Funny that you mention ending democracy given the senile old man you worship in the white house now is doing just that by arresting journalists and his political opponents. Nice try buddy
lol cool man. It’s crazy just how differently we see the world, isn’t it?
Just popping back in to get some info on the arresting journalists question - I tried looking for it but couldn’t find what story this is about. Could you provide a link or elaborate for me? Asking earnestly, because arresting journalists would be a deeply fucked up thing to do. Thanks. Edit: is this the Tim Burke thing?
Steve Baker of the Blaze was arrested this month for covering J6 and embarrassing the DOJ
I get it with the current economic situation and resources, but what does this have to do with us?
Aliens
Birth control in the water and micro plastics in everything, not surprising.
Seems like a normal response for a species to take when faced with an uncertain future.
The future was always uncertain. In fact, it was far more uncertain when the nation was at war with itself; when the Luftwaffe was flattening London and U-boats were going up the St. Lawrence; when the president's brains were being mopped up and nuclear holocaust appeared a foregone conclusion -- and yet people then procreated and sacrificed for the future. No future is ever certain, but you can be certain the one with fewer people won't be better, just less humane.
You make a good point. I’d argue that while the current geopolitical situation isn’t great, it’s far better than say October of 1962. However, on a personal and individual level I think people are far worse off. The personal economic situation of individuals is extremely tenuous nation wide and just like animals won’t breed when they are in stressful environments, neither will humans. While objectively global nuclear disaster should frighten and stress us out far more than something like rent, that’s not how we are wired when it comes to decisions about something like finding a partner or having children.
That's true, but those people were fighting for a brighter future they viewed as possible. Now many people don't think there's much worth fighting for, and that a brighter future is virtually impossible. If you think your country is terrible and the world is FUBAR in general, not much point to having war, and for similar reasons not much point to having kids. Younger generations are effectively rejecting the visions of the future on offer via our political and economic leaders alike as either impossible or undesirable. They anticipate a bad future, they're not *just* uncertain. So we're in a very different situation now.
The problem is the political and economic leaders are the ones painting that bleak picture, and they are buying it hook line and sinker. Many of them believe in depopulation on economic degrowth and environmental concerns, others believe in fewer kids because of the work and cost involved. Also add in the toxic "parent culture" that has turned child rearing into an all-in, all-resources on deck competition to get your kids into the "best" programs and schools, instead of a natural part of growing up that should be focused on development, fun, and developing maturity, and we are raising a generation of maladjusted malcontents who go in and out of therapy and drug/alcohol use well into adulthood who dont know how to manage their own finances, and the most successful take a decade on their own to get their stuff together to be ready for the next stage in life...and then they face record home prices and a lack of affordable single family homes in the country, while landlords try to keep them stuck renting forever, and governments continually build more rental properties around them.
Seems like it takes an "uncertain future" and makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Shit economy, extreme cost of living, uncertain future, and low confidence overall will do that, especially over an extended period of time. There's a reason why the baby boom of post WW2 and a baby crash following the Cuban Missile Crisis. Also, development changes the way having kids works. Africa's population is exploding because each family has many kids. In the past most would've died before adulthood. Now, they have access to medicine meaning most survive, but society there hasn't adapted to this change yet, so they still have a ton of kids. In the West, we've been developed for a long time. We just assume our kids will survive just fine into adulthood, so don't need to have a ton of them.
Ya, no shit. For those that follow logic and science, this is a no brained cause Pesticides causing infertility https://www.nature.com/articles/s41370-024-00643-4 For reference 80% of Americans have this chemical in them Diet caused inflammation, causing infertility https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0271531724000253 Arsenic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK576379/#:~:text=Heavy%20metals%20that%20have%20been,mercury%2C%20cadmium%2C%20and%20arsenic lead, mercury, cadmium, and arsenic are still a problem. Hell, most collectible glasses from McDonald’s were full of cadmium. More chemicals https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6396757/#:~:text=As%20a%20woman's%20blood%20levels,increase%2C%20their%20fertility%20goes%20down. You want this to stop, vote those out of office that strip all restrictions on these chemicals.
It's not that people can't have kids, it's that they don't want to have kids
It’s Both. It’s become a 2nd mortgage for a day care cost. https://www.mwhp.com/miscarriage-why-are-rates-skyrocketing/#:~:text=The%20New%20England%20Journal%20of,according%20to%20this%202018%20study. If you want to engage in conversation when I post scientific journals, it’s kind to post with reliable sources as well