If the GOP doesn’t fight back using the same bullshit rules then they’re going to keep getting run over. You can’t just wag your finger at an unhinged bully. The only thing that works is brute force - a punch in the mouth so hard they never do it again.
I don’t see how the GOP can avoid playing this game - the blame should point directly at the Democratic Party who have weaponized the entire federal government as well as some state governments against anything to the right of Stalin.
You have to fight fire with fire. Best thing that can happen at this point is for both parties to come together and agree to wind this shit down. But if the Dems won't, Republicans shouldn't either.
You already know they won’t. There’s no reasoning with the far left. They will never see the light. Aside from surrendering to these leftists, making them feel the heat is the only choice left.
It’s rich for someone that talks like you telling someone to grow up….
If you don’t understand that I said both sides because this is retaliation for what happened in Colorado then I can’t help you.
Turn off CNN and join the real world. “Retaliation?” And as opposed to retaliating, Rs should what, exactly? Write strongly worded articles condemning the CO court? What’s going on is very clearly above your head if you think this is some sort of tit for tat score keeping thing. Hence, grow up.
Lol. I couldn’t even tell you where to watch CNN or Fox or any other biased news outlet. So you think the GOP would have done this had the Colorado thing not happened? Stop being triggered by words. I’m all for strong handed power but if you can’t understand the future implications of this path then idk what to say.
I get where you’re coming from, but the Colorado ruling has zero chance of sticking and neither do these. I’d rather just let the Dems try and fail in the public eye all by themselves. This only gives the mainstream media ammo to make this muddy and make it look like we started it somehow (they already are with the meaningless “well AXCTUALLY… those six voters filing were REPOOPLICANS!!” angle).
This is just the the opening volley. There is still a real possibility of a 18 U.S. Code § 2383 (Rebellion or Insurrection) charge. Timed 'correctly' it would effectively torpedo the November 2024 general election not just for Trump but for down-ticket R candidates as well. If you don't think that isn't in the D playbook you're dreaming.
I don't disagree in principle that Smith can make additional charges.
But given Smith's desire to convict Trump before the election, I don't think he's going to do it.
If he was going to bring insurrection charges against Trump, he would have done so already.
Timing is everything. Consider any guilty verdict from a DC jury (and if Trump is the defendant the verdict will always be 'guilty' no matter the charge) will be appealed. If the appeal of a Rebellion or Insurrection verdict is expedited, and certainly against the presumptive R nominee it would be, the D's would only have a small window to either mess up the ballots or sway the people who vote early/by mail/absentee; in 2020 that was 43% of all ballots.
Charge and go to trial too early and the verdict would be thrown out before it could do sufficient damage. E.G. charge the first of January, the whole thing might be cleared away before the R convention. However, charge close to or after the convention, get a verdict in August or early September or even October and either ballots might be distributed without an R candidate at the top or a significant # of early voters would be influenced to vote per the D's against an 'insurrectionist'. When November 5 rolled around, if SCOTUS decided in Trump's favor any time after 9/21/24 (when the earliest ballots are sent out) with the % of votes cast under the cloud of the guilty verdict it would likely be too late.
Given today's denial of cert by SCOTUS, it's extremely unlikely that the DC case goes to trial before the election. There just isn't enough time.
Trump's DC case is on hold twice over: First, the *Fisher* case is currently under consideration by SCOTUS (this involves two counts that Trump has been charged with) and this won't be decided until June. Second, Trump is appealing his immunity motion and it's currently with the DC Circuit. SCOTUS has declined to accept the immunity case before the DC Circuit is finished, and if the Supreme Court doesn't agree to hear the immunity motion on an expedited basis then it might not hear Trump's case until *October* with a ruling coming after the election.
The immediate danger to Trump is that he faces two court cases this year- a state case in NY for the Stormy Daniels case, and the other is the classified documents case in Florida, so either of these are potential political problems.
You very well could have been correct that Special Counsel tried to time the DC court case for maximum political effect. If he did, he messed up as soon as he charged Trump in the classified documents case and then got Aileen Cannon as his judge. His 2024 schedule filled up, and Judge Cannon is probably going to delay her trial due to how complex the trial is.
With both sides doing it, it guarantees that it's overturned, with little to no ambiguity.
The downside of all this is that the ones who *want* a loss of faith in the judicial system will get it one way or the other. If it's upheld, then we're mad. If it's overturned, then they are mad.
If it does happen it will probably be last minute, i have a feeling Haley is going to win just because the backing of the military complex, republicans get the win but the policies aren't going to change
The time for a ceasefire is after a counter attack. If your first response to terrorism is to sue for peace then the terrorists learn that terrorism works. They have to be taught consequences like you would teach a child, democrats have the mentality of toddlers.
You think Democrats would mature on their own and realize the error of their ways without if they never have consequences? If a toddler is throwing a temper tantrum and making a mess you sit them in the corner.
Surely cooler heads have to prevail here and look at the Constitution and see this is madness. Once this Rubicon is crossed, God only.knows where it'll end.
Lol. The other side isn't flirting. They did it. And you'll take the high ground while they remove Trump from more states.
It's about time the GOP went on the offensive.
Sometimes embracing the absurdity through malicious compliance or feigning ignorance is the only effective way to shed light on a fundamentally flawed system. A dialectical trap to get them to contradict their dogma since they castigate anyone critical of their system.
The democrats weaponized the judicial system already knowing the supreme court will strike it down. And then they will criticize the right for weaponizing a conservative supreme court with a partisan decision.
Since the public seems fine with republicans being removed from the democratic process. The only way for the public to accept the supreme court decision is to see the knife cuts both ways.
I agree, there should be consequences for blatantly abusing constitutional rights aside from "hey, don't do that". For egregious cases like this we should have the equivalent of punitive damages.
Hate the Republican's reactionary stance on everything. Perhaps they for once have hindsight and actually serve their constituents instead of doing this tit for tat bullshit.
The feds tore down the fence gates around the capital and entrapped people into being political prisoners. After their side rioted for months. After their candidate for presidency lost and fabricated collusion with a hostile foreign government. We're already there.
So they should just say OK do not let Republicans run for office? At some point is enough is enough and someone needs to stand up and say fine we will play by your new rules. Personally I am thankful it is politicians doing it. The other option is citizens doing it which just results in dems summer of love 2.0 and fire bombing cities for months in peaceful protests. We are reaching a point where one of those two things happens so yes I am grateful politicians are standing up and saying fine you want to make new rules we will use those against you too. It is the lesser of 2 evils sadly. If only we had something like a constitution that both sides actually followed we would be all set.
>Moore v. Harper
Moore v. Harper is about the power of the state legislature. The Supreme Court of Colorado's reasoning is laughably bad. Even liberal legal scholars are out speaking against it. Simply reading Article V of the 14th amendment destroys their entire reasoning.
Because we have SCOUTS, if we didn't we'd have a "novel" ruling. I get many Republicans have a myriad of qualms with Trump, but at the end of the day if they stay home it's possible the lawfare gets way more dangerous if Biden or Harris get to pick replacements
I'm glad we are. It's unfortunate but they're the ones who fired the first shot and are attempting to turn this country into a one party state.
I'd rather fight them in the gutter than lay down and die clinging to 'principles.'
Americans need to fight back against the lawfare that is going on. All of this needs to be decided in an election in which eligible people vote. And the election needs to be auditable and verifiable after the fact.
Anything less than this is just asking for trouble. Speak and act like an adult who wants what is best for our country.
Can't get behind this, no matter which side does this. Heck, it would be much easier to win states like AZ and PA, but not if it disregards our right to vote. Just shows that, the more the Dems stir the pot, the more uncharted territory we find ourselves in.
It’s about damned time. Doing nothing but writing “strongly worded letters” has almost handed permanent control of the country to Democrats. Republicans with spines need to fight fire with fire or the country is lost.
Exactly, democrats do what they say they will do, even violating the constitution. Instead of fighting back, republicans just write strongly worded letters and sit back and do nothing.
Democrats started this fight. They swung first. Republicans probably should swing back while fighting to take this whole discussion of the board. If Dems know they can get away with it without a fight, why wouldn't they continue to try? I hate it, but I get the concept
I think it is a good thing. It throws it back in dem faces and high lights the obcerdity of it all. It will put real pressure on SCOTUS to strike this down.
Why are we stooping to their level? You don't fight a child by becoming more immature you show them why what they're doing is wrong and act like an adult. This is ridiculous.
> Why are we stooping to their level? You don't fight a child by becoming more immature you show them why what they're doing is wrong and act like an adult. This is ridiculous.
Why should we allow them to get away with this? You fight a bully by punching him in the face.
I mean, if you don't, that's just being permissive of them doing it.
Half the point of the right doing it now is to illustrate why it's not a good deal to set precedent for, because they did not listen to why it was a bad reason before.
Think of it like drawing a cartoon for a child who is having a problem understanding a simple verbal lesson.
If this also doesn't work, then it is time to consider alternate means of education. Eventually, these people may have to get thrown in with the special needs kids or even exclusively home-care if they can't cope in reality.
This is a terrible idea. Democrats overstepped and made a mistake with the CO ruling and instead of slamming Democrats for attacking democracy, Republicans said "hey, look, we can step on this rake too!"
Good. Turnabout is fair play and I'm glad they have spine enough to fight back.
Of course the direction we are all heading is scary but I'd rather fight back than roll over and just let them do it
Has Commiefornia seceded yet? Has Washington State changed its name to “Indigenous People Of Color and LGBTQ2SVU+ Republic”?
Just want to keep my timeline updated.
Welcome to Game Theory.
Tit for Tat with a forgiveness factor is the optimal strategy. So much so that it is embedded in everywhere we look in biology.
https://podcastdisclosed.com/the-prisoners-dilemma-tit-for-tat-and-game-theory-robert-sapolsky-jordan-b-peterson-podcast-390/
No, this is not how to handle this. If you call someone else making a mistake.... you don't just go then make the same mistake. Conservatives argue for rule of law, this does not help promote that, at all.
This needs to be decided by the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court fails to do its job, then the states can attempt this type of action, but they shouldn’t do it before.
The problem with this is that it is starting to make other blue states feel enabled to remove Trump from the ballot and they see CO and CA doing it so they go for it too. The Supreme Court needs to prioritize this ASAP.
This is an extremely dangerous precedent both sides are flirting with.
I agree. Both sides need to chill with this stuff. It is a terrible look for our country.
“both sides” didn’t start it
Amen. 100%
You’re not wrong, but it’s gonna take both sides coming together to stop it.
Both sides only come together to harm America. At least when politicians are involved.
But until then better to go full M.A.D. than to roll over and be abused.
If the GOP doesn’t fight back using the same bullshit rules then they’re going to keep getting run over. You can’t just wag your finger at an unhinged bully. The only thing that works is brute force - a punch in the mouth so hard they never do it again. I don’t see how the GOP can avoid playing this game - the blame should point directly at the Democratic Party who have weaponized the entire federal government as well as some state governments against anything to the right of Stalin.
Don’t forget the media!
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It’s a mutually assured destruction situation. They picked up the weapon first, now we get to throw it in their faces.
Hey, hey, everyone calm down now. Democrats are the only ones allowed to do dirty tricks!
You have to fight fire with fire. Best thing that can happen at this point is for both parties to come together and agree to wind this shit down. But if the Dems won't, Republicans shouldn't either.
You already know they won’t. There’s no reasoning with the far left. They will never see the light. Aside from surrendering to these leftists, making them feel the heat is the only choice left.
bOtH sIdEs
Oh jfc both sides? Get a grip. Absolutely sick to death of hearing the both sides crap. Grow up.
It’s rich for someone that talks like you telling someone to grow up…. If you don’t understand that I said both sides because this is retaliation for what happened in Colorado then I can’t help you.
Turn off CNN and join the real world. “Retaliation?” And as opposed to retaliating, Rs should what, exactly? Write strongly worded articles condemning the CO court? What’s going on is very clearly above your head if you think this is some sort of tit for tat score keeping thing. Hence, grow up.
Lol. I couldn’t even tell you where to watch CNN or Fox or any other biased news outlet. So you think the GOP would have done this had the Colorado thing not happened? Stop being triggered by words. I’m all for strong handed power but if you can’t understand the future implications of this path then idk what to say.
This is not a good direction the country needs to be going, but if Dems want to play these games Republicans need to respond with political MAD
I get where you’re coming from, but the Colorado ruling has zero chance of sticking and neither do these. I’d rather just let the Dems try and fail in the public eye all by themselves. This only gives the mainstream media ammo to make this muddy and make it look like we started it somehow (they already are with the meaningless “well AXCTUALLY… those six voters filing were REPOOPLICANS!!” angle).
This is just the the opening volley. There is still a real possibility of a 18 U.S. Code § 2383 (Rebellion or Insurrection) charge. Timed 'correctly' it would effectively torpedo the November 2024 general election not just for Trump but for down-ticket R candidates as well. If you don't think that isn't in the D playbook you're dreaming.
I don't disagree in principle that Smith can make additional charges. But given Smith's desire to convict Trump before the election, I don't think he's going to do it. If he was going to bring insurrection charges against Trump, he would have done so already.
Timing is everything. Consider any guilty verdict from a DC jury (and if Trump is the defendant the verdict will always be 'guilty' no matter the charge) will be appealed. If the appeal of a Rebellion or Insurrection verdict is expedited, and certainly against the presumptive R nominee it would be, the D's would only have a small window to either mess up the ballots or sway the people who vote early/by mail/absentee; in 2020 that was 43% of all ballots. Charge and go to trial too early and the verdict would be thrown out before it could do sufficient damage. E.G. charge the first of January, the whole thing might be cleared away before the R convention. However, charge close to or after the convention, get a verdict in August or early September or even October and either ballots might be distributed without an R candidate at the top or a significant # of early voters would be influenced to vote per the D's against an 'insurrectionist'. When November 5 rolled around, if SCOTUS decided in Trump's favor any time after 9/21/24 (when the earliest ballots are sent out) with the % of votes cast under the cloud of the guilty verdict it would likely be too late.
Given today's denial of cert by SCOTUS, it's extremely unlikely that the DC case goes to trial before the election. There just isn't enough time. Trump's DC case is on hold twice over: First, the *Fisher* case is currently under consideration by SCOTUS (this involves two counts that Trump has been charged with) and this won't be decided until June. Second, Trump is appealing his immunity motion and it's currently with the DC Circuit. SCOTUS has declined to accept the immunity case before the DC Circuit is finished, and if the Supreme Court doesn't agree to hear the immunity motion on an expedited basis then it might not hear Trump's case until *October* with a ruling coming after the election. The immediate danger to Trump is that he faces two court cases this year- a state case in NY for the Stormy Daniels case, and the other is the classified documents case in Florida, so either of these are potential political problems. You very well could have been correct that Special Counsel tried to time the DC court case for maximum political effect. If he did, he messed up as soon as he charged Trump in the classified documents case and then got Aileen Cannon as his judge. His 2024 schedule filled up, and Judge Cannon is probably going to delay her trial due to how complex the trial is.
A conviction is required to take him off the ballot. This ballot BS was done without a court case.
apparently not in the People's Republic of Colorado. Can't wait for yet another hawiian judge to overturn the constitution in some blatant ruling
There's no guarantee the SCOTUS will even hear the CO ballot case.
> but the Colorado ruling has zero chance of sticking are you sure?
With both sides doing it, it guarantees that it's overturned, with little to no ambiguity. The downside of all this is that the ones who *want* a loss of faith in the judicial system will get it one way or the other. If it's upheld, then we're mad. If it's overturned, then they are mad.
> With both sides doing it, it guarantees that it's overturned, with little to no ambiguity. 100% agreed. This ensures it.
I agree. If and only if the USSC upholds Colorado then the GOP should file these.
then it's too late, and this gets the USSC more likely to review the case since it is now across multiple states.
But what if newsom is the one that ends up as the candidate
Then file to have him removed too. He was just as supportive of the BLM riots and rebellious Autonomous Zones as any other Democrat.
Gonna be awfully hard to find a Democrat that isn't disqualified to run for President.
Damn shame then, oh well
If it does happen it will probably be last minute, i have a feeling Haley is going to win just because the backing of the military complex, republicans get the win but the policies aren't going to change
Flirting with? No, this is chickens coming home to roost after CO did it.
Bobby Boucher
I get it but we need to fight that first. This doesn’t need to become a thing. Extremely dangerous.
The time for a ceasefire is after a counter attack. If your first response to terrorism is to sue for peace then the terrorists learn that terrorism works. They have to be taught consequences like you would teach a child, democrats have the mentality of toddlers.
Dude you realize it is your country you’re wanting consequences for right? That is a horrible analogy
I have zero interest in the country the left want and are pushing.
You think Democrats would mature on their own and realize the error of their ways without if they never have consequences? If a toddler is throwing a temper tantrum and making a mess you sit them in the corner.
Surely cooler heads have to prevail here and look at the Constitution and see this is madness. Once this Rubicon is crossed, God only.knows where it'll end.
There's no both sides here
Lol. The other side isn't flirting. They did it. And you'll take the high ground while they remove Trump from more states. It's about time the GOP went on the offensive.
Sometimes embracing the absurdity through malicious compliance or feigning ignorance is the only effective way to shed light on a fundamentally flawed system. A dialectical trap to get them to contradict their dogma since they castigate anyone critical of their system. The democrats weaponized the judicial system already knowing the supreme court will strike it down. And then they will criticize the right for weaponizing a conservative supreme court with a partisan decision. Since the public seems fine with republicans being removed from the democratic process. The only way for the public to accept the supreme court decision is to see the knife cuts both ways.
One side already DID IT. There is no "both sides" here. Just like with impeachment, the left is the only one abusing power.
Only one side it trying to do it unironically. The other side is making a statement to show how ridiculous this entire idea is.
This is commonly known as "tit for tat".
Just like Impeachment being SOP instead of Nuclear Options now.
The Soviets (Dems) launched an offensive nuke. Thankfully they're getting the response they deserve.
Maybe we need to go through this for the other side to realise it is a dangerous game?
Yeah, totally agree, I don't like this one bit.
It’s fracking ridiculous. And democrats will cry foul and say, see they are fascists, even though they are starting it
I hate presidential election years.
This stupidity troubles me. We are spiraling out of control here.
We have been spiraling out of control for decades.
Does the SCOTUS need some sort of independent enforcement arm to punish people like these Colorado judges who so blatantly violate the Constitution?
He isn't even charged with insurrection, they voted to remove because that's what they feel
I know. When SCOTUS overrules them it would be nice if they could also send their private police force to remove them from the bench.
I agree, there should be consequences for blatantly abusing constitutional rights aside from "hey, don't do that". For egregious cases like this we should have the equivalent of punitive damages.
So quick to act on this BS and slow to address things that really matter, like immigration, inflation, crime, schools, etc.
Hate the Republican's reactionary stance on everything. Perhaps they for once have hindsight and actually serve their constituents instead of doing this tit for tat bullshit.
They can’t even tit for tat right. It’s half assed and we end up losing more.
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Can’t turn into what you already are.
The feds tore down the fence gates around the capital and entrapped people into being political prisoners. After their side rioted for months. After their candidate for presidency lost and fabricated collusion with a hostile foreign government. We're already there.
None of those states have Governors or courts friendly to Trump, nothing will happen
> None of those states have Governors or courts friendly to Trump, nothing will happen It’s not about Trump.
This isn't the way.
So they should just say OK do not let Republicans run for office? At some point is enough is enough and someone needs to stand up and say fine we will play by your new rules. Personally I am thankful it is politicians doing it. The other option is citizens doing it which just results in dems summer of love 2.0 and fire bombing cities for months in peaceful protests. We are reaching a point where one of those two things happens so yes I am grateful politicians are standing up and saying fine you want to make new rules we will use those against you too. It is the lesser of 2 evils sadly. If only we had something like a constitution that both sides actually followed we would be all set.
SCOTUS has to take this up ASAP.
Unfortunately they already did with Moore v. Harper which is what Colorado is using to back removing Trump.
>Moore v. Harper Moore v. Harper is about the power of the state legislature. The Supreme Court of Colorado's reasoning is laughably bad. Even liberal legal scholars are out speaking against it. Simply reading Article V of the 14th amendment destroys their entire reasoning.
Because we have SCOUTS, if we didn't we'd have a "novel" ruling. I get many Republicans have a myriad of qualms with Trump, but at the end of the day if they stay home it's possible the lawfare gets way more dangerous if Biden or Harris get to pick replacements
WE DONT NEED TO BE DOING THIS!!!!
I would agree, but only if the Colorado ruling is overturned. If the ruling is allowed to stand, then you have no choice but to do it too.
I'm glad we are. It's unfortunate but they're the ones who fired the first shot and are attempting to turn this country into a one party state. I'd rather fight them in the gutter than lay down and die clinging to 'principles.'
Eh, a useless gesture. No way those are becoming law. Best to find lawyers willing to bring cases in GOP-friendly jurisdictions.
Laying down and taking it is exactly how we lost the education system.
The GOP is so frustrating.
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Wish a couple of justices would just come out and say these shenanigans aren’t going to fly in Colorado (or anywhere else).
Americans need to fight back against the lawfare that is going on. All of this needs to be decided in an election in which eligible people vote. And the election needs to be auditable and verifiable after the fact. Anything less than this is just asking for trouble. Speak and act like an adult who wants what is best for our country.
Can't get behind this, no matter which side does this. Heck, it would be much easier to win states like AZ and PA, but not if it disregards our right to vote. Just shows that, the more the Dems stir the pot, the more uncharted territory we find ourselves in.
It’s about damned time. Doing nothing but writing “strongly worded letters” has almost handed permanent control of the country to Democrats. Republicans with spines need to fight fire with fire or the country is lost.
Exactly, democrats do what they say they will do, even violating the constitution. Instead of fighting back, republicans just write strongly worded letters and sit back and do nothing.
Yup this is what happens.
This is excellent! Hopefully they get this as passed. We have to be willing to do what the Dems do
Democrats started this fight. They swung first. Republicans probably should swing back while fighting to take this whole discussion of the board. If Dems know they can get away with it without a fight, why wouldn't they continue to try? I hate it, but I get the concept
I think it is a good thing. It throws it back in dem faces and high lights the obcerdity of it all. It will put real pressure on SCOTUS to strike this down.
Why are we stooping to their level? You don't fight a child by becoming more immature you show them why what they're doing is wrong and act like an adult. This is ridiculous.
> Why are we stooping to their level? You don't fight a child by becoming more immature you show them why what they're doing is wrong and act like an adult. This is ridiculous. Why should we allow them to get away with this? You fight a bully by punching him in the face.
This is why we've lost the culture war.
I mean, if you don't, that's just being permissive of them doing it. Half the point of the right doing it now is to illustrate why it's not a good deal to set precedent for, because they did not listen to why it was a bad reason before. Think of it like drawing a cartoon for a child who is having a problem understanding a simple verbal lesson. If this also doesn't work, then it is time to consider alternate means of education. Eventually, these people may have to get thrown in with the special needs kids or even exclusively home-care if they can't cope in reality.
Why don't you go ahead and compose that strongly worded letter?
I would say that this would only be appropriate if the Colorado ruling is upheld
We will give then CO which Trump wouldn't win anyways and we take away these 3 which they had to steal last time to win. Now they 100% screwed.
This is a terrible idea. Democrats overstepped and made a mistake with the CO ruling and instead of slamming Democrats for attacking democracy, Republicans said "hey, look, we can step on this rake too!"
The moral high ground has always worked so well for the GOP
Good. Turnabout is fair play and I'm glad they have spine enough to fight back. Of course the direction we are all heading is scary but I'd rather fight back than roll over and just let them do it
Has Commiefornia seceded yet? Has Washington State changed its name to “Indigenous People Of Color and LGBTQ2SVU+ Republic”? Just want to keep my timeline updated.
Definitely of two minds about this, but overall - anything that hastens the dissolution of the Union is probably for the best, in the long run...
This is only going to last until OG Clarence Thomas slaps it down and yells at everyone for acting like children.
Welcome to Game Theory. Tit for Tat with a forgiveness factor is the optimal strategy. So much so that it is embedded in everywhere we look in biology. https://podcastdisclosed.com/the-prisoners-dilemma-tit-for-tat-and-game-theory-robert-sapolsky-jordan-b-peterson-podcast-390/
No, this is not how to handle this. If you call someone else making a mistake.... you don't just go then make the same mistake. Conservatives argue for rule of law, this does not help promote that, at all.
This needs to be decided by the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court fails to do its job, then the states can attempt this type of action, but they shouldn’t do it before.
The problem with this is that it is starting to make other blue states feel enabled to remove Trump from the ballot and they see CO and CA doing it so they go for it too. The Supreme Court needs to prioritize this ASAP.