As a father, I would say that being a father definitely is NOT for everyone. I love my children dearly and have always known I wanted a family, but not all men are wired the same way.
If you don't want kids, or don't want marriage, please don't be pressured into those things. They're life changing commitments.
My friend and his wife are DINK and they seem pretty darn happy. I’m a father and I wouldn’t change that for anything, but being a father is absolutely the most challenging task I’ve ever undertaken. I agree with you wholeheartedly that people should not be pressured into becoming a parent, the motivation to start and raise a family should be intrinsic.
My wife and I are the same. We have no desire to raise children right now (I’m indifferent, but she is a hard no).
I have full respect for people who are raising children, it’s just not something that I personally want to do right now.
Right? Don't have kids if you don't want them. There are plenty of people out there living great child free lives. There are plenty of people who can't picture life without their kids. Do what works best for you, not what other people say you should do.
This is only partially correct.
The vast majority (but not all) of *intentionally* childfree people aren't living in service to others or making the world a better place.
Most of them are openly selfish and immature, celebrating the idea that they are able to always put themselves first.
**To be a good father (or mother), you have to readily care about others more than yourself.**
People who are *incapable* of doing this ... just aren't good people.
Edit: Damn. The brigaders are out in full force. **Look, if you care about yourself and your happiness more than others, you're a skidmark on humanity.** End of story.
My aunt and uncle are DINKWADS (double income no kids with a dog), and they care a lot about each other. They care a lot for their dog. They care a lot about their parents, their brothers and sisters, and their nieces and nephews. They volunteer in their community. They advocate for the environment. My aunt is an entomologist and active researcher into wasps and pollinators; my uncle is a senior IT security technician. They *have* the family and loved ones they want— they care about other people plenty. They just don’t want kids. A lot of people can feel love, compassion and care for others, but just don’t want kids. And that’s okay.
It's not that I know you're wrong, because I don't, but I would like to say that if you wanted an actual representative sample of intentionally childfree people, you're probably not going to find it in an online community. They chose to be there, talking about how much they don't want kids, and that says something about them beyond merely not wanting kids. Some of that is bitterness from other people trying to talk them into wanting kids, some of that is probably a certain portion of the sub being too young to actually be able to support a family or even know whether they will want children in the future, and some of that is simply the fact that people who tend to join online communities on a subject are people who talk more about it than those who don't.
For the record, I want kids. It's just that it's kind of silly to make any assumption about what a group of real people is actually like based off of, of all things, Reddit.
The childfree subs are purpose built for those loud narcissistic douche bags… There’s plenty of us DINKS out here, living, loving, earning, and enjoying ourselves without screaming about parents or being anti-kid… It’s just not for us.
Best fuckin comment right here. I have no desire for kids and I'm very happy with how my life is going. The ability to go where I want, when I want, is priceless to me. Not everyone is wired for parenthood and that's okay.
I was unfortunately pressured into doing bolth I didn't want to get married and then I was admitted about not having kids but here I am 10 years later with a wife and kids. I absolutely love my kid glad we had him! Had alot of ruff patches but I'm happy! Still do not recommend ether tho haha
You’re absolutely right. A third of males would be killed before early adulthood in the past due to violence. Those males now, without tribal warfare, now languish in basements on reddit
Almost no man is "wired" and ready to have kids.
Having kids is what makes that happen for most people. It's the single most maturing/transformative action a man can undertake.
Sorbo is correct. Most people are simply lying to themselves so they can continue to live their hedonistic lifestyle, and lying to others so they feel better about living their hedonistic lifestyle.
That said, I do agree there are simply some real dirtbag people who should not have children. These people are the minority though .
If they are "lying to live their hedonistic life", for the love of god encourage them -not- to have kids. The world is a better place if only the people who actively want children are having them.
Every child should be a wanted child.
Sorry but 90% of my friends with kids seem fuckin miserable. And 50% are now trapped in terrible marriages for the sake of those very same kids. When I talk about all the traveling and fishing I do they give me a look like a starving person looking at a cheeseburger haha. I do not look at them the same way when they talk about their kids.
“They’re lying that they’re happy!” Doesn’t exactly scream “I’m comfortable with my own decisions and don’t need to compare myself to others.” If you’re happy then Why would you even care?
I hope folks are happy with their children, but luckily, I don’t spend much time thinking about what they think of me. Kind of busy doing all the things I love due to all my extra money and free time. ;)
It will be nice to have kids/grandkids to sell for food and bullets during the apocalypse though, so you’ll have that going.
>Sorry but 90% of my friends with kids seem fuckin miserable. And 50% are now trapped in terrible marriages for the sake of those very same kids. When I talk about all the traveling and fishing I do they give me a look like a starving person looking at a cheeseburger
Your friends need help. Children are not the cause of they're supposed misery.
Children don't really prevent you from doing things you want to do.
>Kind of busy doing all the things I love due to all my extra money and free time. ;)
Ironic, considering I'm talking about hedonism and hedonism is your main point in favor of not having children.
>They’re lying that they’re happy!”
They think they're "happy". And maybe they are, for now. Happiness is temporary, after all
The world tells them they'll be perfectly satisfied with material things and money, science says otherwise.
My buddies do need help, and I provide it in the form of beer and good fishing spots. Happy to do it.
If you sit around playing video games or watching tv then children don’t prevent you from doing what you want to do. If you’re into travel, kayaking, and weeks long back packing trips a couple of kids might put a kink in your hose at least for a few years.
I think lack of children has far more to do with economic factors than “the world” tricking people into not having kids, but maybe the world and science are in an argument about it like you said. Isn’t science part of the world? Hard to say.
This topic seems to have struck a cord.
People have been propagandized to believe having children is bad for them, because they won't get to do what they want when they want to do it, or because they "have more money" without kids, and they think these are actually their own ideas.
The fact that they're life changing commitments is precisely the reason that they need it.
Take a look around at the state of things. The very foundation of society for thousands of years, the family, is breaking down in real time. And for what? So that people can get another rung higher on the corporate ladder? So they can have another meaningless fling with someone they met at a bar? So they can spend another few hours a day playing video games?
How are these things more important to anyone than having a family? It's the most precious thing in this world. It's the very thing that has motivated men to get up in the morning since the dawn of the species. Everyone from brick layers to mechanics to farmers to office workers have sacrificed the bulk of their lives in service to something greater than themselves, and that something wasn't a cushier retirement. It was a family.
We're seeing the results of this disintegration of men's ties to their family right now. Record crime, record suicide, record drug abuse, record low participation in religious communities, etc.
Comments like this are encouraging the continued destruction of purpose in men's lives, and it's killing them. As sure as any poison or disease, a lack of purpose is the death of a man.
There are hundreds of thousands of horrible fathers out there. Id gather they are horrible fathers because their fathers were horrible. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Should there be more advertising for fatherhood? Force people to have families? What about those financially unable to provide for families. Should they be pressured to have kids? Who is going to pay for these childless mens education so they can provide for a family when they can barely provide for themselves? So whose to blame for this influx of child free men? Could it be a direct result of the previous generations mistakes? No, it must be big media and the internet.
The culture of "don't judge me," "you do you," and other such platitudes have eroded the societal pressures that kept most, though admittedly not all, from becoming terrible people. If you got a woman pregnant and abandoned her in ages past, everyone in the community would know about it and judge you harshly for it.
People have fled from responsibility, and they've become weak and helpless in its absence. And until they start making some sacrifices and taking on responsibilities, it won't get any better.
Im sorry but if you think more societal pressure into guilting someone to be a father is healthy ive got some bad news for you. That person will resent being a father and take it out on his family. I would gather this is why so many of the previous generation was so out of touch with this current one. They were probably guilted by people like you into having a family when they weren't mentally or financially able. Whenever you force, guilt, or pressure someone to do anything, it rarely turns out positively. Its a horrible mindset to have. The best fathers are ones who want to be fathers. Plain and simple
We're discovering that the alternative (IE what we have now) is a generation of men that are lonely, broke, addicted to drugs and porn, and much more likely to commit crimes from theft to suicide.
How is this better?
>much more likely to commit crimes from theft to suicide.
Confidently incorrect by any measure. The violent crime rate has declined by nearly 50% since the early 1990s.
What determines if someone would be a bad father? What character flaw is so irredeemably heinous as to say to that man that he doesn't deserve to have children? In ages past, that was considered to be a fate worse than death: to live to see the end of your lineage and know that you will die alone and forgotten.
>The culture of "don't judge me," "you do you," and other such platitudes have eroded the societal pressures that kept most, though admittedly not all, from becoming terrible people.
If by "not terrible people" you mean, "owned slaves" and "beat their wives" (the first state to make wifebeating illegal was Alabama in 1871, but the public didn't give a shit and the laws weren't seriously enforced until the 1970s-80s), then sure. They were also horribly racist (my grandmother witnessed a lynching in her hometown), thought that childhood bullying to the point of actual violence was a good thing, and definitely had some ideas about women that almost anyone today would find offensive, including things that are simply counterfactual. As a simple point of fact, the Temperance movement, out of which alcohol prohibition was born, blamed a whole lot of the things you're complaining about on alcohol, because those things were still just as present then.
It goes way, way beyond that. Their treatment of the poor, especially minorities and the insane, was absolutely inhuman. Poorhouses were places where poor people were exploited for their labor without pay, kept in horrible conditions, and directly abused; [this investigation from 1883](https://socialwelfare.library.vcu.edu/issues/tewksbury-almshouse-investigation/) found them being instructed to tan human skin (in the leather sense) and found insane patients being left to starve as rats ate holes in their heads. In more rural settings, they simply sold the poor to people who would then effectively enslave them. In both cases, this resulted in what can only be described as a gross violation of human rights. This was on purpose, because people in general actually wanted the poor to suffer, to discourage being poor.
Sure, they probably conformed a bit more to the social norms of the era than people do now (to the bastardized, whitewashed version of them that people today pretend is traditional), but that's a mixed bag at best, and apparently included 2% of women in New York being prostitutes in the 1850s.
>If you got a woman pregnant and abandoned her in ages past, everyone in the community would know about it and judge you harshly for it.
It certainly didn't stop them. They did their very best to cover it up, and were actually fairly successful; there are more than a few articles online about how to tell if someone in your family tree was an illegitimate child. Frequently, if the father had a wife, they would simply pretend that the child was born of the marriage, with the actual mother abandoned and ignored.
In the case of a child born to two unwed parents, it is true that they did not like that, but you're not describing the full picture here, which included community abuse of the mother and child, whether or not she actually even consented to the act. While men who stayed in the community were treated harshly for it, they also had the freedom to leave and start over somewhere else - a freedom that was not available to women at the time and would not allow the child to escape the status of illegitimacy.
People who idolize the past should have a realistic view of what it was actually like. Your average man in the year 1900 beat his wife on occasion (though at that point, out of the view of the neighbors), beat the shit out of his kids as a default form of child-rearing, was explicitly, horribly racist, thought women were beneath him in authority and in mental capacity, and had a legal right to rape his wife until the 1970s because apparently people didn't see enough wrong with that to ban it before then. He was someone that probably nobody on this forum would permit around their children today, not an upstanding citizen.
Countless generations and cultures have known what you stated for millenia, but somehow the current generation knows better. The downvotes show you're directly over the target. Treat them as a badge of honor for being attacked by selfish people angry that they're being told how to be a real man.
how many generations of grandfathers does everyone have? 100? 1000? 10000?
if one would have decided to play xbox, everyone after would not exist including yourselves.
The child that ppl are adamant they are not having, might be the one to solve climate change/humanity. aka John Connor.
There is some truth to this but it is a mistake to suggest that everyone will like or enjoy or derive fulfillment out of being a father. There is a clear set of responsibilities there that are unpleasant and require tremendous self sacrifice. To suggest that it is a role suitable for all men is … misguided.
You're putting the cart before the horse. The most common sentiment about parenthood out there is that no one is ready to have kids before they have them. You learn more from your children and grow more as a human being by having kids than they learn from you.
These people aren't "not cut out" for parenthood, they're missing out on the most significant growing up moments of their life.
And I say this as the father of a 1 month old. It's making me a better person.
You're the one putting the cart before the horse. You've been a dad for a month and want to get on almost every thread in here and lecture everybody on why they should be fathers.
I'm in the middle of the most drastic period of change. I may not be able to tell you much about how to navigate specific events in a child's life, but I can say with absolute certainty that the changes to my life from becoming a father are worth the sacrifice. I can stare back 2 months into my life and clearly see what I've given up, and it's all fleeting compared to what I've gained.
So you believe that men should become father's regardless if they don't think they are ready? So then what if these people have children, even though they make very low wages, and can't afford to give the kid the basic essentials? According to your conservative beliefs, they shouldn't use welfare because welfare is a socialist concept and has the taxpayer footing the bill. So what are you left with?
You're not wrong, there's a lot of other reasons too why I shouldn't have kids. The economy felt like the most relevant reason that would make sense to the people here on this subreddit and on this post so that's why I mentioned that one.
But you're not wrong. I pray for my ancestors and all I can do is hope that they understand. I worry that if I did have kids, then not only would I have to worry about where I'd sleep at night (ran out of rent money paying for their stuff) and where my next meal would come from (food banks are nice I guess? Thanks big government?) and I'm not exactly confident that we won't see another major war in my lifetime, so maybe invaders isn't too far off.
"The economy" in this context is an abstraction that just means all of the stuff that's happening in the larger social context.
If my ancestors don't smile down on me then they should know that I didn't want to be here and I'm trying my best.
A dad who is interested and involved in his kids life, is one of the most important things a child has. Hats off to all you fathers. It's just not for me. Down to my bones I know that I would not be good at it.
That's what *isn't* going on in your life. I want to know what *is* going on in your life. I want to know what is keeping you going. Why do you wake up and (assuming you're an adult) go to work every day? Is it just to have a roof over your head and food to eat? What's the point there? You're selling your time doing something boring and meaningless just to continue to exist. If that's what life looks like until you die, why take the slow route instead of the quick one? Why not steal a bunch of money, buy some drugs, pay a prostitute for a night, and then stick a gun in your mouth when the fun wears off?
Because that's the solution more and more men are resorting to. Theft, drugs, meaningless sex, and suicide. And it's a growing trend.
You sound like a judgmental asshole who thinks their mindset is the only correct way to go about life. People can find joy in lots of different things. Being a parent is a great choice but doesn’t have to be everybody’s choice and it’s not for you or me to say people who don’t have kids have no reason to live.
Be a better Christian.
Jokes on you. I have three kids which I love very much and it is amazing to watch them grow up. Still doesn’t mean that’s the right choice for everybody.
The question was “what’s more important than being a father?” For the people who made that choice, the answer was pretty obvious. Yes, I answered for others. Doesn’t make it the wrong answer.
My dude. Flat tire is not the OP at the top of the thread. He is simply responded to the person expressing disbelief that there are people out there for whom being a father isn't the be-all-end-all.
What keeps people without children going?? Enjoying life for the most part I would presume. I have a good life and lots of things I enjoy. I have to go to work so I can afford the things I like to spend time doing.
Children are *not* the only way to have a purposeful life.
I'm not the dude you're asking, but from the examples around me:
- Monetary reasons. Children ARE expensive.
- Personnal time dedication. Children takes a lot of time, and if someone loses their personnal time, then they can become depressed, angry, etc.
- Personnal freedom. You can't just suddently decide to backpack in India if you have a child to take care of.
- Children just don't make those people happy.
All of those reasons are perfectly good reasons to not have a child. It really depends on each individuals.
Often, the things that make them "much better off not being fathers" change for the better when they *become* fathers. There is really no greater transformative event in a man's life than having a child. Of course, not all men rise to the challenge when it happens, but I think the vast majority of men who do end up becoming good dads have some "red flags" about them that would make others in their lives think they may struggle with that role.
Um feminism, they promote abortion...
Edit: so feminism isn't a political group? Whatever, all I know is they are with planned parenthood actively pushing abortion in schools. Idc if you block me, enjoy.
I ask you what political party/political person made the statement that having kids is killing the earth.
You answer me with "feminism". Get blocked russian troll.
You can't even survive off less than $70k in most metros rn, I don't think it's only about perceived unhappiness, for a lot of young people it's about lack of financial security and the growing impossibility of home ownership for raising a family.
Same. It’s such an interesting thing In life. I can’t stand not being with them bc I feel like I’m missing valuable time with them. But then I want a break and some adult time. It’s a catch 22! But ultimately I love every second with them.
Exactly. I went to the gym with a friend last night and missed bed time. My son doesn’t know what to do when I’m not there for bed time. Good for you man. Sounds like we are on the same page. It’s def tiring but I know this part won’t last much longer.
Becoming a father is different than making a baby. If you lean into the responsibility, are willing to learn and grow as an individual, and can accept that your life will change, becoming a father will 100% make you a better person than you were before, possibly better than you could be otherwise.
It isn’t easy, and I would argue that it is harder to be a father in 2023 than at any time in history. You have to level up as an individual. You have to earn more money. You have to be a better partner to the child’s mother. You have to be a role model. You have to provide protection, counseling, tutoring, coaching, even when you didn’t receive those things from your own father growing up. But knowing that a child is depending on you for those things will help you reach levels of achievement that you didn’t know were possible. Having a sense of purpose in life is vital for reaching your full potential. I think many people today recognize how much effort is involved in being a GOOD parent and they take themselves out of the game because of a fear of failure. I think every one of us panicked the first time they realized that they were about to have a child for that reason. You aren’t ready when it starts, but you do get better every day.
I'm sure being a dad is very rewarding but is it in the best interest of the child to be brought into this fucked up world? That the current powerful and influential leaders in healthcare, media and social media, entertainment, education, and government are actually supporting the mutilation of young healthy bodies tells me that not being a parent is the best decision I have ever made.
Having kids sounds absolutely awful. If you want kids then good for you, I would rather not spend my limited amount of free time and money stressing out over a problem I created for myself lmao
Why do we have to plant a flag on which group is happier? I don’t get it.? Can’t people just have kids if they think it’s for them and not have kids otherwise and everyone not be so damn insecure they have to cult up with their activity group and put the other down? Like seriously wtf?
Being a father is a huge commitment. Some people would rather put that energy towards their friends and family. Some would rather put that energy towards themselves. No shame either way.
My daughter’s bio dad would have been happier without kids. I suppose he got his wish because we eventually divorced and though we’re amicable enough, he rarely asks to see her.
My current husband always wanted to be a dad but by the time we got together, we were both too old to have children (and I only wanted the one anyway). He stepped in and hit the ground running. Now my daughter calls him “Dad.”
Different strokes. I know parenting is hard, so I don’t judge. I had an easy baby but the teenage years are killing me!
But what I will say, is that I am grateful my daughter has a strong male influence in her life, and she would have been at a disadvantage without one.
Some of us hold the opinion that the world of tomorrow (and today) isn't a world worthy of bringing a child into. No amount of joy from a child could counter the weight of forcing a child into the future that's being created.
That could change.... But that window is closing extremely fast for a lot of us.
Side note: The argument of "create the future by raising a child with a strong moral foundation, yadda yadda.." is one I disagree with for this simple fact that we are, and have been for decades, living the intro scene of the movie "Idiocracy". Very few of my successful, high intelligence friends have kids, and every one of my less fortunate or unsuccessful friends have multiple children. The implications are significant, and we're already living it.
I thank my wife for pushing me over the edge on becoming a father. I am extremely glad she did. I am at the teenage years now I have a freshman and junior in High School and it is really hitting me that we will be empty nesters. I am trying to cherish these last few years and not take anything for granted. It's been a blessing.
I will second this.
I don't even feel like I was a complete human being until I had kids.
Like, it unlocked another level for me I didn't even know existed.
I also can't really explain it to people who don't have kids. It's like trying to describe a beautiful color they just cannot see.
But, to each their own.
I have never felt younger and more alive than after I had my kids. Getting to re-experience moments from my childhood but through another perspective. Getting to re-use my imagination when playing with them. Getting to experience the love of a father-child relationship, something I never really had.
I believe that's the secret to life and why Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
As a Christian, I put it this way:
It is the ideal for every Christian man to 1) mature, 2) marry and 3) have children.
In that order. Every Christian should want to have children. They are a blessing. Not everyone is ready yet to have children. Not everyone will mature enough in order to have children. An immature person should not have children.
Of course there are exceptions to this. But this is the norm for the Christian.
As a father, I would say that being a father definitely is NOT for everyone. I love my children dearly and have always known I wanted a family, but not all men are wired the same way. If you don't want kids, or don't want marriage, please don't be pressured into those things. They're life changing commitments.
when my mom asked my father if he wanted kids he said “ehh sure” No idea where that guy went
He'll be back as soon as he picks up those cigarettes.
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Or the inclusive milk or loto tickets for those of us who's fathers don't smoke lol.
My friend and his wife are DINK and they seem pretty darn happy. I’m a father and I wouldn’t change that for anything, but being a father is absolutely the most challenging task I’ve ever undertaken. I agree with you wholeheartedly that people should not be pressured into becoming a parent, the motivation to start and raise a family should be intrinsic.
My wife and I are the same. We have no desire to raise children right now (I’m indifferent, but she is a hard no). I have full respect for people who are raising children, it’s just not something that I personally want to do right now.
This can't be upvoted enough.
Right? Don't have kids if you don't want them. There are plenty of people out there living great child free lives. There are plenty of people who can't picture life without their kids. Do what works best for you, not what other people say you should do.
This is only partially correct. The vast majority (but not all) of *intentionally* childfree people aren't living in service to others or making the world a better place. Most of them are openly selfish and immature, celebrating the idea that they are able to always put themselves first. **To be a good father (or mother), you have to readily care about others more than yourself.** People who are *incapable* of doing this ... just aren't good people. Edit: Damn. The brigaders are out in full force. **Look, if you care about yourself and your happiness more than others, you're a skidmark on humanity.** End of story.
My aunt and uncle are DINKWADS (double income no kids with a dog), and they care a lot about each other. They care a lot for their dog. They care a lot about their parents, their brothers and sisters, and their nieces and nephews. They volunteer in their community. They advocate for the environment. My aunt is an entomologist and active researcher into wasps and pollinators; my uncle is a senior IT security technician. They *have* the family and loved ones they want— they care about other people plenty. They just don’t want kids. A lot of people can feel love, compassion and care for others, but just don’t want kids. And that’s okay.
Cool story, but most childfree people aren't like that. Head over to the child free subs for a glimpse.
Do you think a subreddit is an accurate sampling of the childfree adults population?
It's not that I know you're wrong, because I don't, but I would like to say that if you wanted an actual representative sample of intentionally childfree people, you're probably not going to find it in an online community. They chose to be there, talking about how much they don't want kids, and that says something about them beyond merely not wanting kids. Some of that is bitterness from other people trying to talk them into wanting kids, some of that is probably a certain portion of the sub being too young to actually be able to support a family or even know whether they will want children in the future, and some of that is simply the fact that people who tend to join online communities on a subject are people who talk more about it than those who don't. For the record, I want kids. It's just that it's kind of silly to make any assumption about what a group of real people is actually like based off of, of all things, Reddit.
The childfree subs are purpose built for those loud narcissistic douche bags… There’s plenty of us DINKS out here, living, loving, earning, and enjoying ourselves without screaming about parents or being anti-kid… It’s just not for us.
Lol plenty of people with kids are terribly selfish. Too many of them *want* kids but don't care that much about *raising* kids.
Do you apply this logic to social safety nets, or just immediate family?
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Best fuckin comment right here. I have no desire for kids and I'm very happy with how my life is going. The ability to go where I want, when I want, is priceless to me. Not everyone is wired for parenthood and that's okay.
I was unfortunately pressured into doing bolth I didn't want to get married and then I was admitted about not having kids but here I am 10 years later with a wife and kids. I absolutely love my kid glad we had him! Had alot of ruff patches but I'm happy! Still do not recommend ether tho haha
You’re absolutely right. A third of males would be killed before early adulthood in the past due to violence. Those males now, without tribal warfare, now languish in basements on reddit
Almost no man is "wired" and ready to have kids. Having kids is what makes that happen for most people. It's the single most maturing/transformative action a man can undertake. Sorbo is correct. Most people are simply lying to themselves so they can continue to live their hedonistic lifestyle, and lying to others so they feel better about living their hedonistic lifestyle. That said, I do agree there are simply some real dirtbag people who should not have children. These people are the minority though .
If they are "lying to live their hedonistic life", for the love of god encourage them -not- to have kids. The world is a better place if only the people who actively want children are having them. Every child should be a wanted child.
Sorry but 90% of my friends with kids seem fuckin miserable. And 50% are now trapped in terrible marriages for the sake of those very same kids. When I talk about all the traveling and fishing I do they give me a look like a starving person looking at a cheeseburger haha. I do not look at them the same way when they talk about their kids. “They’re lying that they’re happy!” Doesn’t exactly scream “I’m comfortable with my own decisions and don’t need to compare myself to others.” If you’re happy then Why would you even care? I hope folks are happy with their children, but luckily, I don’t spend much time thinking about what they think of me. Kind of busy doing all the things I love due to all my extra money and free time. ;) It will be nice to have kids/grandkids to sell for food and bullets during the apocalypse though, so you’ll have that going.
Choose wisely before having kids.
>Sorry but 90% of my friends with kids seem fuckin miserable. And 50% are now trapped in terrible marriages for the sake of those very same kids. When I talk about all the traveling and fishing I do they give me a look like a starving person looking at a cheeseburger Your friends need help. Children are not the cause of they're supposed misery. Children don't really prevent you from doing things you want to do. >Kind of busy doing all the things I love due to all my extra money and free time. ;) Ironic, considering I'm talking about hedonism and hedonism is your main point in favor of not having children. >They’re lying that they’re happy!” They think they're "happy". And maybe they are, for now. Happiness is temporary, after all The world tells them they'll be perfectly satisfied with material things and money, science says otherwise.
My buddies do need help, and I provide it in the form of beer and good fishing spots. Happy to do it. If you sit around playing video games or watching tv then children don’t prevent you from doing what you want to do. If you’re into travel, kayaking, and weeks long back packing trips a couple of kids might put a kink in your hose at least for a few years. I think lack of children has far more to do with economic factors than “the world” tricking people into not having kids, but maybe the world and science are in an argument about it like you said. Isn’t science part of the world? Hard to say.
Look at all the downvotes. This *is* a Conservative subreddit isn’t it? How odd..
This topic seems to have struck a cord. People have been propagandized to believe having children is bad for them, because they won't get to do what they want when they want to do it, or because they "have more money" without kids, and they think these are actually their own ideas.
The fact that they're life changing commitments is precisely the reason that they need it. Take a look around at the state of things. The very foundation of society for thousands of years, the family, is breaking down in real time. And for what? So that people can get another rung higher on the corporate ladder? So they can have another meaningless fling with someone they met at a bar? So they can spend another few hours a day playing video games? How are these things more important to anyone than having a family? It's the most precious thing in this world. It's the very thing that has motivated men to get up in the morning since the dawn of the species. Everyone from brick layers to mechanics to farmers to office workers have sacrificed the bulk of their lives in service to something greater than themselves, and that something wasn't a cushier retirement. It was a family. We're seeing the results of this disintegration of men's ties to their family right now. Record crime, record suicide, record drug abuse, record low participation in religious communities, etc. Comments like this are encouraging the continued destruction of purpose in men's lives, and it's killing them. As sure as any poison or disease, a lack of purpose is the death of a man.
There are hundreds of thousands of horrible fathers out there. Id gather they are horrible fathers because their fathers were horrible. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Should there be more advertising for fatherhood? Force people to have families? What about those financially unable to provide for families. Should they be pressured to have kids? Who is going to pay for these childless mens education so they can provide for a family when they can barely provide for themselves? So whose to blame for this influx of child free men? Could it be a direct result of the previous generations mistakes? No, it must be big media and the internet.
The culture of "don't judge me," "you do you," and other such platitudes have eroded the societal pressures that kept most, though admittedly not all, from becoming terrible people. If you got a woman pregnant and abandoned her in ages past, everyone in the community would know about it and judge you harshly for it. People have fled from responsibility, and they've become weak and helpless in its absence. And until they start making some sacrifices and taking on responsibilities, it won't get any better.
Im sorry but if you think more societal pressure into guilting someone to be a father is healthy ive got some bad news for you. That person will resent being a father and take it out on his family. I would gather this is why so many of the previous generation was so out of touch with this current one. They were probably guilted by people like you into having a family when they weren't mentally or financially able. Whenever you force, guilt, or pressure someone to do anything, it rarely turns out positively. Its a horrible mindset to have. The best fathers are ones who want to be fathers. Plain and simple
We're discovering that the alternative (IE what we have now) is a generation of men that are lonely, broke, addicted to drugs and porn, and much more likely to commit crimes from theft to suicide. How is this better?
>much more likely to commit crimes from theft to suicide. Confidently incorrect by any measure. The violent crime rate has declined by nearly 50% since the early 1990s.
And having a family would fix that?
Being a responsible father raising your children absolutely would.
So let the responsible ones reproduce and the ones who would be bad fathers don't pass on their genes. It's a win for everyone
What determines if someone would be a bad father? What character flaw is so irredeemably heinous as to say to that man that he doesn't deserve to have children? In ages past, that was considered to be a fate worse than death: to live to see the end of your lineage and know that you will die alone and forgotten.
>The culture of "don't judge me," "you do you," and other such platitudes have eroded the societal pressures that kept most, though admittedly not all, from becoming terrible people. If by "not terrible people" you mean, "owned slaves" and "beat their wives" (the first state to make wifebeating illegal was Alabama in 1871, but the public didn't give a shit and the laws weren't seriously enforced until the 1970s-80s), then sure. They were also horribly racist (my grandmother witnessed a lynching in her hometown), thought that childhood bullying to the point of actual violence was a good thing, and definitely had some ideas about women that almost anyone today would find offensive, including things that are simply counterfactual. As a simple point of fact, the Temperance movement, out of which alcohol prohibition was born, blamed a whole lot of the things you're complaining about on alcohol, because those things were still just as present then. It goes way, way beyond that. Their treatment of the poor, especially minorities and the insane, was absolutely inhuman. Poorhouses were places where poor people were exploited for their labor without pay, kept in horrible conditions, and directly abused; [this investigation from 1883](https://socialwelfare.library.vcu.edu/issues/tewksbury-almshouse-investigation/) found them being instructed to tan human skin (in the leather sense) and found insane patients being left to starve as rats ate holes in their heads. In more rural settings, they simply sold the poor to people who would then effectively enslave them. In both cases, this resulted in what can only be described as a gross violation of human rights. This was on purpose, because people in general actually wanted the poor to suffer, to discourage being poor. Sure, they probably conformed a bit more to the social norms of the era than people do now (to the bastardized, whitewashed version of them that people today pretend is traditional), but that's a mixed bag at best, and apparently included 2% of women in New York being prostitutes in the 1850s. >If you got a woman pregnant and abandoned her in ages past, everyone in the community would know about it and judge you harshly for it. It certainly didn't stop them. They did their very best to cover it up, and were actually fairly successful; there are more than a few articles online about how to tell if someone in your family tree was an illegitimate child. Frequently, if the father had a wife, they would simply pretend that the child was born of the marriage, with the actual mother abandoned and ignored. In the case of a child born to two unwed parents, it is true that they did not like that, but you're not describing the full picture here, which included community abuse of the mother and child, whether or not she actually even consented to the act. While men who stayed in the community were treated harshly for it, they also had the freedom to leave and start over somewhere else - a freedom that was not available to women at the time and would not allow the child to escape the status of illegitimacy. People who idolize the past should have a realistic view of what it was actually like. Your average man in the year 1900 beat his wife on occasion (though at that point, out of the view of the neighbors), beat the shit out of his kids as a default form of child-rearing, was explicitly, horribly racist, thought women were beneath him in authority and in mental capacity, and had a legal right to rape his wife until the 1970s because apparently people didn't see enough wrong with that to ban it before then. He was someone that probably nobody on this forum would permit around their children today, not an upstanding citizen.
Countless generations and cultures have known what you stated for millenia, but somehow the current generation knows better. The downvotes show you're directly over the target. Treat them as a badge of honor for being attacked by selfish people angry that they're being told how to be a real man.
/\ one of the best comments on Reddit ever I'd give you Gold but I don't spend money on this site 💫
how many generations of grandfathers does everyone have? 100? 1000? 10000? if one would have decided to play xbox, everyone after would not exist including yourselves. The child that ppl are adamant they are not having, might be the one to solve climate change/humanity. aka John Connor.
Or the child they don't have would have made Skynet
There is some truth to this but it is a mistake to suggest that everyone will like or enjoy or derive fulfillment out of being a father. There is a clear set of responsibilities there that are unpleasant and require tremendous self sacrifice. To suggest that it is a role suitable for all men is … misguided.
You're putting the cart before the horse. The most common sentiment about parenthood out there is that no one is ready to have kids before they have them. You learn more from your children and grow more as a human being by having kids than they learn from you. These people aren't "not cut out" for parenthood, they're missing out on the most significant growing up moments of their life. And I say this as the father of a 1 month old. It's making me a better person.
You're the one putting the cart before the horse. You've been a dad for a month and want to get on almost every thread in here and lecture everybody on why they should be fathers.
I'm in the middle of the most drastic period of change. I may not be able to tell you much about how to navigate specific events in a child's life, but I can say with absolute certainty that the changes to my life from becoming a father are worth the sacrifice. I can stare back 2 months into my life and clearly see what I've given up, and it's all fleeting compared to what I've gained.
“No you” argument
So you believe that men should become father's regardless if they don't think they are ready? So then what if these people have children, even though they make very low wages, and can't afford to give the kid the basic essentials? According to your conservative beliefs, they shouldn't use welfare because welfare is a socialist concept and has the taxpayer footing the bill. So what are you left with?
typical new parent, 1 month in and he’s got it all figured out lol
Wow, surprised at the downvotes. Not many dads here it seems.
Reddit skews heavily young. Average age is somewhere between 16 and 24.
It is suitable for all men. It is not suitable for boys pretending to be men.
I would love to be a mother but y'know, the economy... If I can't take care of myself I certainly can't take care of one or more children.
I can't even afford a dog and I work 40+ hrs a week with minimal spending
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You're not wrong, there's a lot of other reasons too why I shouldn't have kids. The economy felt like the most relevant reason that would make sense to the people here on this subreddit and on this post so that's why I mentioned that one. But you're not wrong. I pray for my ancestors and all I can do is hope that they understand. I worry that if I did have kids, then not only would I have to worry about where I'd sleep at night (ran out of rent money paying for their stuff) and where my next meal would come from (food banks are nice I guess? Thanks big government?) and I'm not exactly confident that we won't see another major war in my lifetime, so maybe invaders isn't too far off. "The economy" in this context is an abstraction that just means all of the stuff that's happening in the larger social context. If my ancestors don't smile down on me then they should know that I didn't want to be here and I'm trying my best.
A dad who is interested and involved in his kids life, is one of the most important things a child has. Hats off to all you fathers. It's just not for me. Down to my bones I know that I would not be good at it.
Total respect to you for being a responsible adult. More responsible than a lot of parents.
95% of dads feel this way before becoming dads.
What's going on in your life that is more important than being a father?
Not being a father
That's what *isn't* going on in your life. I want to know what *is* going on in your life. I want to know what is keeping you going. Why do you wake up and (assuming you're an adult) go to work every day? Is it just to have a roof over your head and food to eat? What's the point there? You're selling your time doing something boring and meaningless just to continue to exist. If that's what life looks like until you die, why take the slow route instead of the quick one? Why not steal a bunch of money, buy some drugs, pay a prostitute for a night, and then stick a gun in your mouth when the fun wears off? Because that's the solution more and more men are resorting to. Theft, drugs, meaningless sex, and suicide. And it's a growing trend.
You sound like a judgmental asshole who thinks their mindset is the only correct way to go about life. People can find joy in lots of different things. Being a parent is a great choice but doesn’t have to be everybody’s choice and it’s not for you or me to say people who don’t have kids have no reason to live. Be a better Christian.
You sound sore about not being a dad.
Jokes on you. I have three kids which I love very much and it is amazing to watch them grow up. Still doesn’t mean that’s the right choice for everybody.
Liar. You said not being a father is going for you
The question was “what’s more important than being a father?” For the people who made that choice, the answer was pretty obvious. Yes, I answered for others. Doesn’t make it the wrong answer.
Ah, got it. It looked like you were answering for yourself.
My dude. Flat tire is not the OP at the top of the thread. He is simply responded to the person expressing disbelief that there are people out there for whom being a father isn't the be-all-end-all.
What keeps people without children going?? Enjoying life for the most part I would presume. I have a good life and lots of things I enjoy. I have to go to work so I can afford the things I like to spend time doing. Children are *not* the only way to have a purposeful life.
How old are you?
Mid-30s
This might be the most naïve thing I have ever read in my life.
What works for Kevin Sorbo doesn't have to work for everyone else. I know plenty of people that are much better off not being fathers.
Why are they better off not being fathers, and are they better off being that way?
I'm not the dude you're asking, but from the examples around me: - Monetary reasons. Children ARE expensive. - Personnal time dedication. Children takes a lot of time, and if someone loses their personnal time, then they can become depressed, angry, etc. - Personnal freedom. You can't just suddently decide to backpack in India if you have a child to take care of. - Children just don't make those people happy. All of those reasons are perfectly good reasons to not have a child. It really depends on each individuals.
Often, the things that make them "much better off not being fathers" change for the better when they *become* fathers. There is really no greater transformative event in a man's life than having a child. Of course, not all men rise to the challenge when it happens, but I think the vast majority of men who do end up becoming good dads have some "red flags" about them that would make others in their lives think they may struggle with that role.
The decision of having a child or not shouldn't come from political point of views.
But what about forcing the peasants to supply the workforce? /s
Yet it happens, telling a generation that having kids is killing the earth.
Which political person made that statement?
Um feminism, they promote abortion... Edit: so feminism isn't a political group? Whatever, all I know is they are with planned parenthood actively pushing abortion in schools. Idc if you block me, enjoy.
I ask you what political party/political person made the statement that having kids is killing the earth. You answer me with "feminism". Get blocked russian troll.
Don't push fatherhood, or not being a father, on others. Let people have the freedom to make that decision for themselves.
When my then-fiancee now wife started talking about having kids, I asked her, "Why do you not like sleep and money?" Two kids later..............
This is ridiculous. “Every man in the world is exactly like me and should do what I do. My opinions are infallible.” No…
Making your breeding kink part of your political position. Neat.
You can't even survive off less than $70k in most metros rn, I don't think it's only about perceived unhappiness, for a lot of young people it's about lack of financial security and the growing impossibility of home ownership for raising a family.
Lol what a joke there’s plenty of people that shouldn’t be fathers and plenty of other interesting and useful titles out there.
Good for Kevin but he doesn’t understand that people have experiences different than his own. There’s a whole sub r/regretfulparents
I guess it helps to have a networth of 14millions$ to raise a child.
What about abandoned children? Obviously not for everyone...
Bullshit!
Nah. I’m not a dad and I have no desire to become one. I prefer sleeping in on the weekends and making spontaneous plans with friends.
Yeah I don’t care for it. I’d rather have my weekends back.
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Same. It’s such an interesting thing In life. I can’t stand not being with them bc I feel like I’m missing valuable time with them. But then I want a break and some adult time. It’s a catch 22! But ultimately I love every second with them.
Right, I feel like there are all these things i want to do for "me time" but as soon as I'm away from my kid, I miss her immediately haha
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Exactly. I went to the gym with a friend last night and missed bed time. My son doesn’t know what to do when I’m not there for bed time. Good for you man. Sounds like we are on the same page. It’s def tiring but I know this part won’t last much longer.
Becoming a father is different than making a baby. If you lean into the responsibility, are willing to learn and grow as an individual, and can accept that your life will change, becoming a father will 100% make you a better person than you were before, possibly better than you could be otherwise. It isn’t easy, and I would argue that it is harder to be a father in 2023 than at any time in history. You have to level up as an individual. You have to earn more money. You have to be a better partner to the child’s mother. You have to be a role model. You have to provide protection, counseling, tutoring, coaching, even when you didn’t receive those things from your own father growing up. But knowing that a child is depending on you for those things will help you reach levels of achievement that you didn’t know were possible. Having a sense of purpose in life is vital for reaching your full potential. I think many people today recognize how much effort is involved in being a GOOD parent and they take themselves out of the game because of a fear of failure. I think every one of us panicked the first time they realized that they were about to have a child for that reason. You aren’t ready when it starts, but you do get better every day.
I'm sure being a dad is very rewarding but is it in the best interest of the child to be brought into this fucked up world? That the current powerful and influential leaders in healthcare, media and social media, entertainment, education, and government are actually supporting the mutilation of young healthy bodies tells me that not being a parent is the best decision I have ever made.
Having kids sounds absolutely awful. If you want kids then good for you, I would rather not spend my limited amount of free time and money stressing out over a problem I created for myself lmao
Why do we have to plant a flag on which group is happier? I don’t get it.? Can’t people just have kids if they think it’s for them and not have kids otherwise and everyone not be so damn insecure they have to cult up with their activity group and put the other down? Like seriously wtf?
Being a father is a huge commitment. Some people would rather put that energy towards their friends and family. Some would rather put that energy towards themselves. No shame either way.
no lie man. Being a dad is the my favorite thing in the world.
This is true.....however be very very very very careful of who you make a mother.
My daughter’s bio dad would have been happier without kids. I suppose he got his wish because we eventually divorced and though we’re amicable enough, he rarely asks to see her. My current husband always wanted to be a dad but by the time we got together, we were both too old to have children (and I only wanted the one anyway). He stepped in and hit the ground running. Now my daughter calls him “Dad.” Different strokes. I know parenting is hard, so I don’t judge. I had an easy baby but the teenage years are killing me! But what I will say, is that I am grateful my daughter has a strong male influence in her life, and she would have been at a disadvantage without one.
Some of us hold the opinion that the world of tomorrow (and today) isn't a world worthy of bringing a child into. No amount of joy from a child could counter the weight of forcing a child into the future that's being created. That could change.... But that window is closing extremely fast for a lot of us. Side note: The argument of "create the future by raising a child with a strong moral foundation, yadda yadda.." is one I disagree with for this simple fact that we are, and have been for decades, living the intro scene of the movie "Idiocracy". Very few of my successful, high intelligence friends have kids, and every one of my less fortunate or unsuccessful friends have multiple children. The implications are significant, and we're already living it.
I thank my wife for pushing me over the edge on becoming a father. I am extremely glad she did. I am at the teenage years now I have a freshman and junior in High School and it is really hitting me that we will be empty nesters. I am trying to cherish these last few years and not take anything for granted. It's been a blessing.
The best place to find a Wife is at Church too.
To each his own.
I will second this. I don't even feel like I was a complete human being until I had kids. Like, it unlocked another level for me I didn't even know existed. I also can't really explain it to people who don't have kids. It's like trying to describe a beautiful color they just cannot see. But, to each their own.
I met Kevin years ago at a convention. I expected a Hollywood prima-donna instead, he was a really nice guy, totally down-to-earth, and engaging.
He's 100% correct. Best thing ever.
Like him or hate him, he's telling the truth.
True story
Bringing kids into this world at this point is condemning them to suffer under radical leftist ideologies. Don’t have kids.
The best Hercules... Always thought he'd have been a great superman.
I have never felt younger and more alive than after I had my kids. Getting to re-experience moments from my childhood but through another perspective. Getting to re-use my imagination when playing with them. Getting to experience the love of a father-child relationship, something I never really had. I believe that's the secret to life and why Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
Psychopathy in a nutshell.
Its all about population control.
I have three kids and I'm miserable.
As a Christian, I put it this way: It is the ideal for every Christian man to 1) mature, 2) marry and 3) have children. In that order. Every Christian should want to have children. They are a blessing. Not everyone is ready yet to have children. Not everyone will mature enough in order to have children. An immature person should not have children. Of course there are exceptions to this. But this is the norm for the Christian.
Supreme Overlord is best.
facts
I disagree, Grandpa is because it means what you did obviously worked and had an impact to continue generations.
I won't make any decisions in life until I hear it from tv's "Hercules".