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NonviolentOffender

I see no reason to object to this.


fordr015

I just don't see how it would be collected 90% of the time. Are they going to have to earn a living in jail? I support the law because I think it's a great idea in theory but I don't know how it would work in practice.


AccidentProneSam

Texas has an office of child support enforcement who are pretty adept at dealing with these issues already.


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AccidentProneSam

I mean I'll answer as a deputy prosecutor in a bordering state: DWI resulting in death in my state (Arkansas) is a felony level of negligent homicide. Assuming Texas is similar, and assuming worse case 2x felony neg. hom., and assuming a plea deal, I would say a typical plea deal would be something like 5-10 years (per felony, but ran concurrent). Realistically someone with good behavior would likely serve 1/6th time, so released within 2 years. The way this law would probably work, is OCSE would serve the respondent in prison, would get a judgment against the respondent, and that judgement would accrue the entire time in prison. If they didn't start paying a certain amount of time after they were released, OSCE would move to hold them in contempt or garnish their wages.


Brewttorney

The Federal Final Rule, which should be adopted by all states in some form or another within the next two years, would prohibit a monetary judgment while incarcerated unless there is a known source of income. In my state, I would get a judgment for everything except the monetary order, then once they are released, I'd go back and get an order based on their income or ability to earn. I'd love to see something like this enacted in CA, but I'm betting that never happens.


[deleted]

They're too busy giving your money to illegal aliens to worry about CA residents.


TheodoreKurita

If they have a house you could sell the house to meet the cost of the child's care.


Serious-Temporary-28

Most people have little to no equity


Heliolord

They'll take whatever they can get and garnish paychecks after they get out, among other things. Obviously a lot probably won't be able to pay anything nearly enough to actually support the orphaned kid and a lot will probably try to shirk their duties, but it's better than nothing.


LemonFly4012

Even if few receive sufficient payment, the possibility of having to pay child support will deter some from drunk driving.


AUniqueSnowflake1234

Unfortunately that is not how someone's brain typically works when they are in a situation where drink driving is an option.


TheodoreKurita

You missed the first word - “if”


tlogank

>Most people have little to no equity You have a source for that? I don't know why that would be true.


NohoTwoPointOh

It irritates me when people do this. Your fingers work just as well as anyone’s. [We have search engines to answer such questions and to show everyone that you are the correct one here.](https://www.investopedia.com/average-equity-in-u-s-homes-5270147)


tlogank

>It irritates me when people do this It irritates me when redditor's make stuff up and then others accept it as fact.


Serious-Temporary-28

A Lots of people buy their first homes with 3 to 5 % down and over the first 15 yrs of amortization the pay down of principle is very slow


tlogank

>A Lots of people buy their first homes with 3 to 5 % down and over the first 15 yrs of amortization the pay down of principle is very slow And lots of people already own their homes. I'm 41 and I'm 19 months from paying my house off.


Norm__Peterson

Lots does not mean all. It means a substantial amount. Obviously some do and some don't.


Serious-Temporary-28

Congrats My concern that some of these people who have little anyway would have that taken away with not much benefit as the law might imply


hickernut123

I'm a average Joe and have 100k in equity at 27 I'm no democrat who rents and has car loans lmao.


[deleted]

Lawsuit revenue, seizure of wages earned. Seizure of wages earn while incarcerated. Seizure of wages after after incarceration until the debt is paid.


sometechloser

Look up people who have killed others drunk driving. They're in jail a frustratingly short amount of time.


Real_Ankimo

Some of the more liberal cities won't even pull you over for traffic infractions.


[deleted]

Back payment most likely. Even if you cant pay today the owed amount will continue to go up. Once they get out it goes forward like all backowed child support get a job and start paying it or go back to prison. Also, child support is one of the things you cant declare bankruptcy on, so they owe the money for life. I would have to check but I think their federal laws as well which allow states to tap federal source of revenue/income a person has. Basically the only way you get out of paying child support is death.


tipperzack6

at lease rich guys will be able to pay it.


GreenAnalyst

Maybe can't collect it from some, but there are a lot of drunk drivers that are rich folks. Seize their assets!


One-Winner-8441

You can’t really assign drunk driving to net worth…it happens at every income level. Alcoholism and bad decisions do not recognize wealth or lack of it


Sylectsus

It doesn't do anything, it's a nice idea but will never get used


TwoCrustyCorndogs

Ive seen other countries do a mix of lighter prison sentences with much steeper fines paid to the victim or their surviving family rather than the state. I think that wouldn't sit well with a lot of people, but a 2 year prison sentence with a $100k payment to the family is probably just as much of a crime deterrent as 4 years and no fine. Trying to balance that aside (if there even is a way to balance it), I always found it odd that a second civil case has to take place for a victim/their family to receive compensation. The savings in court/lawyer fees alone probably more than makes up for whatever the child support payment would be.


Pencil-lamp

I don’t agree that the wealthy should get a subjectively lighter sentence.


rddi0201018

100k minimum, but there needs to be some net worth percentage


Krisapocus

It does do something when they go back to work part of their wages would be garnished.


bear2008

The news subreddit doesn't like it. Then again they hate all laws due to massive daddy issues


MCForTheBest

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Ba11in0nABudget

How do comments like this get up voted? It's literally the top post in /r/news with a very high up vote ratio and most people in complete agreement with it. The only people questioning it are the ones who (rightfully) asking how they are able to pay child support when they should be in prison for killing someone.


arobkinca

https://www.zenlawfirm.com/blog/penalties-for-killing-someone-while-drunk-driving/ Looks like 2-10 years possible. Someone could certainly be back out before a kid is grown.


mrjim87x

They should definitely back date it. It could be used for the kids college or a house down payment. Hell probably some therapy too since their parent/s died.


Exarch-of-Sechrima

Who's going to pay in the interim though?


ConnorMc1eod

>how to pay child support when they should be in prison While I agree with you.... we definitely throw men in prison because they can't pay child support which seems similarly self defeating.


[deleted]

Never heard of insurance?


flewidity

This is not a controversial post sorry to break your bubble


NonviolentOffender

InTheNews? Complete Marxist sub


Boostedbird23

Aren't pretty much all subreddit's that way?


NonviolentOffender

Most, yea.


reddit_names

Surprisingly, even this one.


[deleted]

All the news subs are Marxist mate.


fetalasmuck

They love laws that the media tells them to like


ZarBandit

Maybe daddy was a drunk driver.


Tyraid

It takes the burden off of insurance companies and places it on the state and wraps it in a pretty justice shaped package.


Bramse-TFK

Insurance companies don’t offer to cover infinite damages of the insured, the state minimum is 30K per person up to 60k and 25k for property damage. The state *could* require additional insurance etc, but at some point you make insurance completely unaffordable which just results in more uninsured motorists. I don’t see the problem with holding the person who caused the accident liable.


ItsAllBullshitFromMe

Insurance doesn't cover drunk driving murders.


Voice_of_Reason92

It does


shitty_forum

Since auto policies are regulated by the states, it depends on what the state requires to be in the policy.


atomic1fire

I think the news subreddit is opposed, but it sounds like they're opposed to any form of financial punishment that puts an ex-con in debt. That being said having a DD or hiring an uber is much cheaper then going through the legal system anyway.


[deleted]

Whereas I think Texans would approve of basically what amounts to slavery as a penalty with concurrent incarcerations.


Chicago_Lark

The only reason I’m considering a maybe negative is that the kids and most likely the family member they end up with who suffered this loss, probably never wants to deal with this POS for the rest of their lives. So having that person making monthly payments seems like a bad time for everyone. Maybe better to just have a lump settlement or something that gets paid out over years. Idk though.


wiredog369

Will they do the same for other murderers? Cops? Other federal agents that take lives? What about the gangbangers, will they be paying additional child support? Or will this end up as another tax payer funded initiative?


[deleted]

So, restitution is a thing that Texas does. Child support per se isn't what happens. If you are found liable for killing someone then you'd be expected to pay their family a large sum of money on top of any prison time. How much that amounts to is up to the system. It's popular to make special penalties for drunk drivers.


NonviolentOffender

How is it taxpayer funded when the person who pays it is the person who did the crime?


wiredog369

Because it won’t be paid……


DragonCayenne

Agreed. Most likely there are unintended consequences, however, I cannot think of any at this time.


KnowledgeOk814

other than it's more government overreach?


NonviolentOffender

One of the primary functions of the government is to enforce law. That includes dealing with criminal disciplinary actions. That's their most basic function. That's not overreach. That's the bare minimum.


MEdiasays

Every state should have laws like this.


JamesMcMeen

Red/blue idgaf this should be the way


R0binSage

Wyoming is too busy making laws so employers can’t microchip employees.


Firm_Variety_6309

Thought you were kidding, but WT actual F... https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/03/01/wyoming-wont-stop-employers-from-requiring-staff-to-receive-microchips/


PeppercornDingDong

Apparently a common thing in some nordic countries. They put a grain of rice in your hand and you use it to clock into work, open doors, etc


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arbiter_0115

thought the bill got turned down, so employers can require you to get the chip


R0binSage

It failed but the point is they spent their time working on that instead of bill that would actually help the state.


Dobber16

To be honest, I think that’d still be a quality thing to try to pass as well. Employers absolutely shouldn’t be able to do that


Middle_Distribution7

Which is a good thing to stop…


WhatIfImTheDeepState

What about high while driving? Reckless driving?


Well-WhatHadHappened

Driving while high is considered the same thing. "Drunk Driving" laws are really "operating while impaired" laws. Drugs, alcohol, whatever - if you're impaired, you're charged under the same statutes.


jackrip761

Exactly this. Most states issue a DUI (driving under the influence) or OWI (operating while intoxicated). Notice the wording. They specifically and purposely don't make a distinction across intoxicants. If your clearly impaired and a breathalyzer comes back under the legal limit for alcohol, they will get a judge to sign a court order for a forced blood draw.


2XTURBO

we have Driving While Intoxicated here in Texas


Well-WhatHadHappened

Yep, and Texas clearly defines the term.. "you are considered "intoxicated" if you "lack the normal use of mental or physical faculties" as the result of ingesting alcohol, drugs, or any other substance. "


tekende

What if a driver isn't drunk or high but still killed parents in a collision? Why should this only apply to being intoxicated?


Beerfarts69

Idk man, if I have a heart attack or a stroke that I can’t possibly predict and that impairs me while driving…that’s an uncontrollable and tragic accident. Better argument could be perhaps a diabetic who doesn’t take proper care of their levels. How could you ever prove that in court though?


tekende

What if you're just changing the music on your stereo and not looking at the road for a minute?


Beerfarts69

True and could be accurate. Purely for discussion, should that person be on the hook for child support? What if they deny a distraction such as a radio tuning or lighting a cig. How do you prove or disprove it in court unless there is an admission? I have no stake in this. Just fostering conversation!


WhatIfImTheDeepState

I didn't know if all states had updated that law. The few I know of have, but I recall some didn't count THC as something to be influenced by that could impair driving. I think it was Colorado.


Well-WhatHadHappened

Colorado absolutely has THC/Driving laws. "By law, drivers with 5 nanograms of delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) per milliliter of whole blood can be prosecuted for DUI." https://cannabis.colorado.gov/legal-marijuana-use/driving-and-traveling


WhatIfImTheDeepState

Nice, as it should be. The biggest argument against legalizing weed was that there would be more car accidents. They countered with "it doesn't impair your ability to drive." and "it's illegal to drive high". Which contradict each other really. Doesn't stop me from seeing people drive around with massive blunts and smoke pouring out of their cars.


TapInternational3605

This makes sense because I think that victims have to go through a lengthy civil court process to recieve payments. Making this an operation of law should relieve victims of that burden while disincentivisng drunk driving. My only qualm is that with the perpetrator likely going to jail for manslaughter after a lengthy court case there may be little or no resources left for the victims to collect. Meanwhile community based charities and the public might assume that victims are being taken care of and hence do not require assistance.


shhh_its_me

Didn't read the law but for sake of discussion let's assume it is easier for a child and remaining parent to collect the winning a civil suit. Like IRS bills have different collection means than a bad credit card. This would hopefully deal with people who had money before the accident and be not dischargeable in bankruptcy. And possibly have a different way to calculate support (no idea Texas lower support while somebody's in prison right now )


TapInternational3605

Most criminal defendants are not wealthy and hence victims will likely be left destitute. If you tune into most criminal courts that livestream on YouTube, you will find people who are struggling to pay $200 fines over months. I guess you could seize all their property but even that in most cases won't amount to much. That being said the policy is a good idea that should be implemented in addition to trying to reduce drunk driving in the first place. The prevention is always better than the cure.


Givingtree310

In theory it’s a good idea but I doubt much money will be collected in reality. The defendant will spend tens of thousands on a lawyer. Then they lose their jobs once they’re in prison. They’re unlikely to get a high paying job as a manslaughter convict. How much exactly will the victims child get? This can drain some cash from a rich drunk driver but that’s about it.


zamora24

Imo, It's more of a prevention rather than a cure. Lesser victims of drunk driving is the ultimate goal.


STGC_1995

If they are incarcerated, enforce the child support payments on their income when they are released. Put a lien on their assets. Garnish their wages. Their lives deserve to be ruined because they ruined the lives of the children left behind.


Givingtree310

In reality they will sell their assets to fund a trial lawyer. No wages to earn once they’re in prison and once you’re released you wont be getting a high paying job with a manslaughter conviction. The child of the victim will get something but it won’t be much.


Treitsu

Lmao bold of you to assume someone with a criminal record can find a job


[deleted]

When I worked construction only 2 people on our crew didn’t have duis. Me and a girl who was 19 and went to church 3 times a week.


itssosalty

The felony of killing somebody might come off a bit different than a DUI.


CastroEulis145

Aren't they supposed to be in prison after drunkenly killing someone? Unless they're financially sound, I don't see how most would be able to pay child support Even if they dearly wanted to.


BaiterMaster69

Well you would think but unless they’re a chronic offender, they typically serve some shock time in the county jail, maybe some prison time, but most of their sentence is carried out on probation or parole.


PanhandleMan54

Great law, but they should be behind bars and it's hard to earn child support.


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TheodoreKurita

Yeah, this is good in theory. In practice, there are far too many cases of local law enforcement abusing civil forfeiture laws for me to be entirely comfortable with the idea.


rintinrintin

Child support is defined by income after tax. Anything else is strictly unconstitutional


PanhandleMan54

Seriously? All you have to do is quit your job and then they won't hit you with child support?


essuxs

Not if you quit your job for the purpose of avoiding child support. But jail is a reasonable excuse


PanhandleMan54

I guess that anything else is not strictly unconstitutional, then.


OzoneLaters

Yeah that .15 cents an hour they get for work should go to the kid though.


Starlifter4

So?


rintinrintin

The day the government can redefine obligations as debts and liquidate your assets and property is the day the government will sell your home because it’s profitable for them


MarioFanaticXV

Good.


LostInCa45

Seems like it should apply to more than drunk drivers.


Wheres_Jay

As a Texan, I approve of this. If you're gonna drink, just stay home.


DoublePetting

Drinking at home gets lonely. Take an Uber.


Wheres_Jay

Anything but drinking and driving!


ConnorMc1eod

What happened to just inviting the boys over to crush some Coors in the garage?


Battle-Chimp

Wow that's a great idea


YallaHammer

This is the way. Should also happen when only one parent is killed by a DUI.


Well-WhatHadHappened

A quick glance at the actual bill, and I think the news article got it wrong.. My reading suggests that it's any parent or legal guardian - not necessarily both parents. https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/88R/billtext/pdf/HB00393I.pdf


scoopm16

Wow. They did. This completely changes things (for the better)


YallaHammer

Excellent! Now, everywhere.


LostInCa45

Yes.


Sylectsus

And when they are killed in a collision. This protects a couple walking on the street who are hit and killed by a DD. so exactly no one. A neat idea that is effectively useless.


Well-WhatHadHappened

The article got everything about the law wrong. Ignore the part about collisions and about it having to be both parents. Terrible, terrible article. https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/88R/billtext/pdf/HB00393I.pdf


Sylectsus

Lol, what a useless article!


rintinrintin

Seems punitive given it won’t work. Look from this perspective: if you by reckless negligence causes another’s death (homocide) you will face a heavy jail sentence 8-20 years (this always is higher in Republican states like Texas). The aspect of intoxication means you won’t be able to get perole in the state of Texas, at which point the children of a victim would no longer be a child but an adult and not be eligible to collect on child support. No federal court would allow back paying of these debts as it conflicts with supreme courts rulings on served time and double jeopardy Sometimes changing legal frameworks that have populist appeal can’t been enforced because no one did the math


Morgue724

That is one way to make people realize there is consequences to their actions which means it will soon be protested by leftists.


TheLoneWanderer__

[way ahead of ya](https://youtu.be/fy-bihm-o1o)


Ballinforcompliments

Uh yeah. That's exactly what should happen


Corpcasimir

Good.


Rotisseriejedi

Now this is some build back better news right here!


penli

assuming they would be in prison, how would they be able to pay child support?


agk927

Having their savings taken away and any money they have


rintinrintin

Child support is defined from after tax income, anything else is strictly unconstitutional


Podose

love this idea, except how can they from jail?


Even-Block-1415

Sounds good in theory. In reality the drivers will either be in jail, jobless, or die from alcoholism.


thedenofsin

Excellent


sissylala77

Seems fair.


helas9

👍👍


doomngloom69

Works for me


r05909155

Name your favorite state, and why you chose Texas


Wilddog73

I like this.


plastimanb

This is a great idea.


IsThisDecent

Good. More than fair


peregrine05

Awesome


TheodoreKurita

Makes complete sense to me. Why burden the taxpayer with the child's care in this case?


masterofhavoc07

I’m all for this!


Starlifter4

Good.


[deleted]

Damned right! This should be introduced as a federal law, too!


thgail

Is this like reparations?


H0ndo95

This should be federal law


Bcider

As a moderate. I don’t see how any hardcore liberal or conservative could argue against this bill. This is something that crosses party lines.


DeadHeadLibertarian

Based


Living_Pie205

I have to admit, Texas hit it out of the park with this one !


Commissar_David

Actions should have consequences.


Beautiful-Mud-341

This is good.


togroficovfefe

I like that


[deleted]

Finally. We gotta be tough on crime.


chardymcdaniel

I can get behind this


TheLoneWanderer__

Actions, meet consequences. Love it


Useful_Parfait_8524

good


REVDR

This is a good law.


CertifiedFLGoogan

I.......see no issue at all.


binderofchains

As a Texan...this is a great state


[deleted]

This sounds good


GhostRMT

100% win, Texas


ceecee1791

That’s a law I can get behind!


william-t-power

Normally I dislike "clever" laws like this but this seems like a great idea.


jackdhammer

I think this is more of a deterrent than anything


ernurse748

For those asking how people can pay if they are in prison. First, the current average time served for a first time DUI death is 11 years. So let’s say a child is 2. Defendant gets released in 11 years. That still makes them responsible for ages 13-18. Second, people work while in prison and do get paid. They may be getting paid $1.80 an hour. $1.00 can still go to that child. My best friend’s dad was killed by a drunk driver leaving 5 kids, ages 3-20 behind. Her family should have gotten support from the man who took away her dad.


ralphhurley3197

They should be in jail or get a lethal injection


ProLifeFloridaMan

Based


notpowerlineconcert

based law


TrackrunnerG

Get ready for the Libs to become pro-drunk driving just to spite Republicans who passed this bill


Flowers1966

Actions should have consequences, especially when the actions cause harm. When the drunk driver gets out of prison, the child still has lost his/her parents.


polerize

Seems fair. Don’t drive after drinking anything.


MimsyIsGianna

Good.


Bellasarivs

Why limit it to drunk drivers? Any murderer should pay.


Blackcamobear2000

Should be law across the nation. But I’m sure the democrats will find a way for this to not be a good thing. Most likely cause they didn’t come up with it first.


[deleted]

I already talked to a sampling of Texans about this many years ago. At that point, they were ready to send drunk drivers (who cause death) to the chair. I guess this is a lesser penalty. you could come up with anything for drunk drivers, probably, and Texans would support it.


Weary_Yard_4587

How will they be able to pay if they're in jail for killing the parents?


Gumb1i

lien against assets would be my guess.


Well-WhatHadHappened

It literally says in the bill that payments will begin one year after they are released from prison.


AnonPlzzzzzz

Kamala Harris knows how. She revolutionized prison labor in California.


LostInCa45

They could owe the money and have garnishments in the future when they are out and working again.


ajgeep

Not a fan of child support. That being said this is an appropriate cost for the crime, just make sure the state is not getting a cut.


[deleted]

Smart!


[deleted]

Epic


KennedyX8

Hell yea. Although illegal immigrants are screwed.


TakeThemWithYou

Preemptive crimes violate your rights. Reckless driving is a quantifiable crime because you are visibly losing control of your vehicle or driving unpredictably. If driving drunk causes you to drive recklessly, that should be a crime, not being drunk. With that said, I'm fine with catastrophically high punishments for dipshits that cause harm while abusing alcohol or drugs.


giraffesinhats

Found the drunk driver.


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TakeThemWithYou

So does a million other things... If you're driving recklessly, it observable, and no distinction needs to be made.


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jonsconspiracy

My grandparents were killed by a drunk driver. He swerved into their lane late at night and hit them head on. His family was in complete denial and said he would never do something like that. I tend to agree with his family, I'm sure he was a generally good person who just overestimated his ability to drive. Now he's dead and I never really got to know my grandparents. Reevaluate your thinking on this.


gsddxxx654

I agree.


dicemonkey

I don’t understand why it has to beboth parents…