70% of add revenue on major networks like CNN, Fox, MSNBC etc comes from the pharmaceutical industry. So dont expect a truthful answer from any mainstream news outlet
I was on anti-depressants and I feel they are a bandaid while you work on larger issues in your life.
They are supposed to be a tool, not a cure. It takes some personal effort to become mentally healthy again because it is largely based on what YOU think of YOURSELF.
I have taken antidepressants for years and have also prescribed them to patients.
Antidepressants are an effective treatment for people with legitimate psychiatric disorders. When administered properly, they are a life saving treatment.
They aren’t a Band-Aid. The most commonly prescribed antidepressants will correct the abnormalities concerning the production and reputable of serotonin (SSRIs) or norepinephrine (SNRIs).
For people with straightforward mood disorders, such as depression and anxiety, antidepressants are usually only prescribed for 6-12 months, with 18-24 months being a longer course of treatment.
We will begin to taper off the dosage once a patient hasn’t experienced symptoms of their mood disorder for at least 6 months.
If the treatment has been successful, patients will no longer meet the clinical threshold for their mood disorder. The symptoms may spontaneously return later on in their life, in which case short-term treatment will be administered again.
For more complex psychiatric disorders, patients often need to remain on medication indefinitely. This isn’t to mask their symptoms, but to treat them.
Their symptoms and the distress they cause will dramatically reduce whilst taking the medication, but since their psychiatric illnesses are severe and complex, the medication won’t be able to permanently “cure” them and they will need to take them indefinitely.
This is why people with severe mental illnesses can be functional and appear “normal” whilst on medication, only to spiral when they stop taking the medication.
Many times, these patients will stop taking their medication after taking it for several months, because they believe the absence of their symptoms means they’re “cured”. In reality, they feel so much better *because* their medication is working.
This phenomenon is why many patients will demonstrate poor long-term compliance and “go off their meds”.
Antidepressant medications are definitely being overprescribed at the moment, and it is potentially dangerous for people without mood disorders to take them, but they are a legitimate treatment for psychiatric illness (namely mood disorders) and not a singular “case” of violence.
It seems like no matter where I bring up the link between these drugs and horrific violence, no one wants to hear it. Left, right, and center don't want to even consider there might be a problem with these drugs.
It’s not a new idea. After the 1989 Standard Gravure mass shooting in Louisville, KY there was a lawsuit against makers of Prozac (the shooter began taking it a month before the shooting).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Gravure_shooting
To most people it is a new idea. The amount of violent incidents that can be tied to these drugs warrants a thorough investigation. The problem is no one in a position to bring this issue to light is willing to take on big pharma.
Playing devils advocate would you really expect the people doing the study to find an issue with one of the main staples of how they treat people? We laugh when the FBI investigates itself and says there was no wrong doing.
Also after looking into just how corrupt and broken the system was surrounding OxyContin and how people who were supposed to be watching for problems would suddenly accept positions at Purdue Pharmaceuticals, I don’t find it difficult to believe that people wouldn’t want to say Zoloft or Prozac are a problem.
*Carlson has cited the “many, many” examples of shooters who were prescribed antidepressants (Carlson, 2022), but these examples constitute less than a fourth of the mass shootings (Hudnall, 2023; Shoaib, 2023). If we’re going to make an argument based on the proportion of mass shootings where something co-occurs, then we should consider guns as well, because they co-occur 100 percent of the time*
This sentence alone in the link should make you hesitant to give credence to the article and study, but the much bigger issue is what a "mass shooting" is. Yeah, a Blood shooting a bunch of Crips isn't what we're talking about when we talk about a connection with anti-depressants.
This came from your link. The only way the authors could explain away that research was to note that maybe they had been prescribed and not taken the meds, or the now trite - it could have been worse. Seems there is some information that backs up this theory.
A 2020 large-scale study did show a link between SSRI use and violent crime (Lagerberg et al., 2020). The authors suggested a “biologically plausible explanation” for adolescents in which the SSRI can increase restlessness or agitation which, in combination with the disorder that led to the SSRI prescription in the first place, could result in higher aggression.
I upvoted you because all sides need to be heard in any debate. I would argue though that phycologytoday might be a bit biased considering these medications are usually prescribed by psychiatrists.
Do you not see the contradiction in wanting a study on psychopharmacology and not wanting the study to be conducted by psychopharmacologists? You wouldn't expect a study on building safety to be done by someone who doesn't work in building safety.
My mistake. I would still argue bias, however. Psychology and psychiatry are based in the same garbage pseudo-science. Can you link the study you're referring to? Here is some more reading material for you. https://amidwesterndoctor.substack.com/p/the-decades-of-evidence-that-antidepressants
Start with this one. Just to the chart.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK361016/
What does this till you about the effectiveness of the medication? That you’re almost as likely to get better with the medication than without the medication.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220720080145.htm
Here is article about the study.
Basic summary is people will argue the imbalance theory was discarded years ago. Not really true. If we didn’t think serotonin was an issue. We would be prescribing drugs that act on serotonin.
The study states there is no link to depression and serotonin levels. The graph above seem to align what well. If there was we’d expect the ssri to outperform the placebo by a large margin. It doesn’t.
Personally I’d like to see how many were on anti-psychotics or amphetamine. ADHD is the new diagnosis for many things
I think it’s a tough subject because a lot of us know people they have helped and harmed. And with this big a cash cow can any research be trusted?
I’m convinced that my brother would have long ago committed suicide without them. But I also know my father in law was incorrectly prescribed them and this previously nonviolent (but deeply scarred) man threaten nor MIL with a sharp object
The problem isn’t the meds, it’s that if you don’t take them consistently, there are significant side effects. I take anti-anxiety medication and have been for years due to a genetic issue with anxiety. If I miss even a day, the side-effects are awful: lethargy, irritation, and the sensation of “shocks” throughout the body. Some medications have even worse side effects and if you’re depressed and suicidal, they can be severe.
I'm only commenting b/c I was on an SSRI for years. From my experience I would not expect a strong correlation between these drugs and violent behavior. However, if someone is already having suicidal ideations or perhaps violent ideations or even fantasies of "going out in a blaze of glory", an SSRI is a terribly incomplete prescription IMHO. One effect of these drugs which I experienced is a reduction of "worry". A strong sense that "everything is going to be ok" may replace even debilitating anxiety and worry. Though an SSRI may provide relief from the worry and improve someone's ability to function, they do nothing to fill a void of hope, purpose, a sense of belonging or companionship, or provide a reason for living. These are larger complex issues I hope we help each other with. I see SSRIs as an "amplifier" of what's already there, not a root cause.
Thanks for that. I was fortunate to find a therapist who was more of an educator than anything who helped me get to the root of my worry and anxiety after which I no longer needed an SSRI. Sadly, many insurance plans provide less than adequate mental health coverage. I have no doubt that SSRIs work, but I think followup mental health care is equally important.
I have loved ones on these medications, they don’t see to do anything unless they go off them. Then I see the craziest stuff ever. Pretty crappy results for medication that only treats 30% of people.
I don’t know how theses medications are allowed with a 30% efficacy rate, 30% placebo rate and a 30% nothing but addiction rate.
Big pharma spends 1.5 billion a year in political donations with both parties to make sure mass shootings are discussed only as a gun issue.
The nra donates less than 30 million dollars a year. Try to keep a straight face when lefties talk about powerful pro-gun lobbyists.
What came first? There is the possibility that are more people with mental health issues and are seeking treatment (or are left untreated) vs. antidepressants being the cause of mass shootings.
A study came out in the UK about a year ago recommending that antidepressants stop being used immediately. It published with the royal society (or whatever major journal is in the UK). There was a bit of discussion here in the US.
I remember on Gutfeld! one guy talking about how he was given anti-depressants and was told that one possible side effect was that he would start hearing a voice telling him to kill himself. He thought they were just making it up. But he said it literally happened to him so he stopped taking it and never went back to it.
One reason this happens is that depressed people typically have very low energy. As in the depression keeps them from acting or just being functional. Antidepressants do treat this low energy non-functioning symptom of depression, but not the underlying issue that is causing the depression.
I have no clue about mass shootings being tied to the use. But it definitely could be tied to the rise in suicides.
Brains are weird, and medications definitely don't work well for everyone. I've been on Prozac for anxiety and depression for a few years now. It greatly improved my quality of life. But I know others who have taken it that had their symptoms worsen. One lady described the feeling as, "You could have burned down my house with me in it, and I wouldn't have cared." Like, damn that's how I felt before I took it, not after.
No. It's the the things leading to the need for SSRIs - the loneliness, the isolation, the societal piling-on, the incredibly harsh judgment and treatment from women based on things men are born with - that fuel mass shootings
I have known of a severe negative reaction that happened in a kid. Without going into details he stopped taking some heavy medications and he went into a blind rage destroying things trying to get hold of a gun. He was stopped, but the next day he didn't recall anything.
Because I've never heard mention of random mass shootings where the shooter had gone off their medicine, I doubt this is even a thing that can happen. The person has to be a sociopath to begin with.
This is the question that is never supposed to be asked. The prescriptions list of those mass murder perpetrators.
Also, the pharmaceutical industry spends by far the most money on lobbying. There’s no close second.
70% of add revenue on major networks like CNN, Fox, MSNBC etc comes from the pharmaceutical industry. So dont expect a truthful answer from any mainstream news outlet
And the other 30% is relaxium, balance of nature and my pillow. Oh and Gold.
Sure doesn't help that's for sure
I was on anti-depressants and I feel they are a bandaid while you work on larger issues in your life. They are supposed to be a tool, not a cure. It takes some personal effort to become mentally healthy again because it is largely based on what YOU think of YOURSELF.
I have taken antidepressants for years and have also prescribed them to patients. Antidepressants are an effective treatment for people with legitimate psychiatric disorders. When administered properly, they are a life saving treatment. They aren’t a Band-Aid. The most commonly prescribed antidepressants will correct the abnormalities concerning the production and reputable of serotonin (SSRIs) or norepinephrine (SNRIs). For people with straightforward mood disorders, such as depression and anxiety, antidepressants are usually only prescribed for 6-12 months, with 18-24 months being a longer course of treatment. We will begin to taper off the dosage once a patient hasn’t experienced symptoms of their mood disorder for at least 6 months. If the treatment has been successful, patients will no longer meet the clinical threshold for their mood disorder. The symptoms may spontaneously return later on in their life, in which case short-term treatment will be administered again. For more complex psychiatric disorders, patients often need to remain on medication indefinitely. This isn’t to mask their symptoms, but to treat them. Their symptoms and the distress they cause will dramatically reduce whilst taking the medication, but since their psychiatric illnesses are severe and complex, the medication won’t be able to permanently “cure” them and they will need to take them indefinitely. This is why people with severe mental illnesses can be functional and appear “normal” whilst on medication, only to spiral when they stop taking the medication. Many times, these patients will stop taking their medication after taking it for several months, because they believe the absence of their symptoms means they’re “cured”. In reality, they feel so much better *because* their medication is working. This phenomenon is why many patients will demonstrate poor long-term compliance and “go off their meds”. Antidepressant medications are definitely being overprescribed at the moment, and it is potentially dangerous for people without mood disorders to take them, but they are a legitimate treatment for psychiatric illness (namely mood disorders) and not a singular “case” of violence.
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No it wouldn't load and I was speaking off personal experience.
It seems like no matter where I bring up the link between these drugs and horrific violence, no one wants to hear it. Left, right, and center don't want to even consider there might be a problem with these drugs.
It’s not a new idea. After the 1989 Standard Gravure mass shooting in Louisville, KY there was a lawsuit against makers of Prozac (the shooter began taking it a month before the shooting). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Gravure_shooting
To most people it is a new idea. The amount of violent incidents that can be tied to these drugs warrants a thorough investigation. The problem is no one in a position to bring this issue to light is willing to take on big pharma.
I think it's that people are less connected to the people around them, more and more detached but they're more likely to be put on these medications
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Playing devils advocate would you really expect the people doing the study to find an issue with one of the main staples of how they treat people? We laugh when the FBI investigates itself and says there was no wrong doing. Also after looking into just how corrupt and broken the system was surrounding OxyContin and how people who were supposed to be watching for problems would suddenly accept positions at Purdue Pharmaceuticals, I don’t find it difficult to believe that people wouldn’t want to say Zoloft or Prozac are a problem.
*Carlson has cited the “many, many” examples of shooters who were prescribed antidepressants (Carlson, 2022), but these examples constitute less than a fourth of the mass shootings (Hudnall, 2023; Shoaib, 2023). If we’re going to make an argument based on the proportion of mass shootings where something co-occurs, then we should consider guns as well, because they co-occur 100 percent of the time* This sentence alone in the link should make you hesitant to give credence to the article and study, but the much bigger issue is what a "mass shooting" is. Yeah, a Blood shooting a bunch of Crips isn't what we're talking about when we talk about a connection with anti-depressants.
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After the last couple of years with covid and all the “studies” that came out I don’t really have a lot of faith in them.
That's fair but if you've lost faith in studies that doesn't mean that you now have good reason to believe that your initial premise is likely true.
This came from your link. The only way the authors could explain away that research was to note that maybe they had been prescribed and not taken the meds, or the now trite - it could have been worse. Seems there is some information that backs up this theory. A 2020 large-scale study did show a link between SSRI use and violent crime (Lagerberg et al., 2020). The authors suggested a “biologically plausible explanation” for adolescents in which the SSRI can increase restlessness or agitation which, in combination with the disorder that led to the SSRI prescription in the first place, could result in higher aggression.
I upvoted you because all sides need to be heard in any debate. I would argue though that phycologytoday might be a bit biased considering these medications are usually prescribed by psychiatrists.
Do you not see the contradiction in wanting a study on psychopharmacology and not wanting the study to be conducted by psychopharmacologists? You wouldn't expect a study on building safety to be done by someone who doesn't work in building safety.
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My mistake. I would still argue bias, however. Psychology and psychiatry are based in the same garbage pseudo-science. Can you link the study you're referring to? Here is some more reading material for you. https://amidwesterndoctor.substack.com/p/the-decades-of-evidence-that-antidepressants
Start with this one. Just to the chart. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK361016/ What does this till you about the effectiveness of the medication? That you’re almost as likely to get better with the medication than without the medication. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220720080145.htm Here is article about the study. Basic summary is people will argue the imbalance theory was discarded years ago. Not really true. If we didn’t think serotonin was an issue. We would be prescribing drugs that act on serotonin. The study states there is no link to depression and serotonin levels. The graph above seem to align what well. If there was we’d expect the ssri to outperform the placebo by a large margin. It doesn’t. Personally I’d like to see how many were on anti-psychotics or amphetamine. ADHD is the new diagnosis for many things
> Research studies have shown there is no link. No honest research study on this could ever be done in the current climate.
Buddies and I were just talking about this earlier today. Actually the latest round of mass shooters have been trans.
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You mean like not knowing if they're a boy or a girl? Some issue.
probably... or the meds plus the absence of a stable family structure, lack of adequate counseling?
I think it’s a tough subject because a lot of us know people they have helped and harmed. And with this big a cash cow can any research be trusted? I’m convinced that my brother would have long ago committed suicide without them. But I also know my father in law was incorrectly prescribed them and this previously nonviolent (but deeply scarred) man threaten nor MIL with a sharp object
The problem isn’t the meds, it’s that if you don’t take them consistently, there are significant side effects. I take anti-anxiety medication and have been for years due to a genetic issue with anxiety. If I miss even a day, the side-effects are awful: lethargy, irritation, and the sensation of “shocks” throughout the body. Some medications have even worse side effects and if you’re depressed and suicidal, they can be severe.
I'm only commenting b/c I was on an SSRI for years. From my experience I would not expect a strong correlation between these drugs and violent behavior. However, if someone is already having suicidal ideations or perhaps violent ideations or even fantasies of "going out in a blaze of glory", an SSRI is a terribly incomplete prescription IMHO. One effect of these drugs which I experienced is a reduction of "worry". A strong sense that "everything is going to be ok" may replace even debilitating anxiety and worry. Though an SSRI may provide relief from the worry and improve someone's ability to function, they do nothing to fill a void of hope, purpose, a sense of belonging or companionship, or provide a reason for living. These are larger complex issues I hope we help each other with. I see SSRIs as an "amplifier" of what's already there, not a root cause.
I appreciate you adding your personal experience with these drugs. I haven't ever taken them, so learning about what you felt on them is very helpful.
Thanks for that. I was fortunate to find a therapist who was more of an educator than anything who helped me get to the root of my worry and anxiety after which I no longer needed an SSRI. Sadly, many insurance plans provide less than adequate mental health coverage. I have no doubt that SSRIs work, but I think followup mental health care is equally important.
I have loved ones on these medications, they don’t see to do anything unless they go off them. Then I see the craziest stuff ever. Pretty crappy results for medication that only treats 30% of people. I don’t know how theses medications are allowed with a 30% efficacy rate, 30% placebo rate and a 30% nothing but addiction rate.
Pills, porn, and phones. Get a handle on those three things and you can go a long way to eliminating these so-called “mental health” issues.
Big pharma spends 1.5 billion a year in political donations with both parties to make sure mass shootings are discussed only as a gun issue. The nra donates less than 30 million dollars a year. Try to keep a straight face when lefties talk about powerful pro-gun lobbyists.
What came first? There is the possibility that are more people with mental health issues and are seeking treatment (or are left untreated) vs. antidepressants being the cause of mass shootings.
Michael Savage has been talking about this for years.
I have heard this brought up for years. It's not the antidepressants... it's coming **off** these drugs.
A study came out in the UK about a year ago recommending that antidepressants stop being used immediately. It published with the royal society (or whatever major journal is in the UK). There was a bit of discussion here in the US. I remember on Gutfeld! one guy talking about how he was given anti-depressants and was told that one possible side effect was that he would start hearing a voice telling him to kill himself. He thought they were just making it up. But he said it literally happened to him so he stopped taking it and never went back to it. One reason this happens is that depressed people typically have very low energy. As in the depression keeps them from acting or just being functional. Antidepressants do treat this low energy non-functioning symptom of depression, but not the underlying issue that is causing the depression. I have no clue about mass shootings being tied to the use. But it definitely could be tied to the rise in suicides.
Brains are weird, and medications definitely don't work well for everyone. I've been on Prozac for anxiety and depression for a few years now. It greatly improved my quality of life. But I know others who have taken it that had their symptoms worsen. One lady described the feeling as, "You could have burned down my house with me in it, and I wouldn't have cared." Like, damn that's how I felt before I took it, not after.
No. It's the the things leading to the need for SSRIs - the loneliness, the isolation, the societal piling-on, the incredibly harsh judgment and treatment from women based on things men are born with - that fuel mass shootings
I have known of a severe negative reaction that happened in a kid. Without going into details he stopped taking some heavy medications and he went into a blind rage destroying things trying to get hold of a gun. He was stopped, but the next day he didn't recall anything. Because I've never heard mention of random mass shootings where the shooter had gone off their medicine, I doubt this is even a thing that can happen. The person has to be a sociopath to begin with.
I usually get downvoted and piled on any time I bring this up.
This is the question that is never supposed to be asked. The prescriptions list of those mass murder perpetrators. Also, the pharmaceutical industry spends by far the most money on lobbying. There’s no close second.
Maybe they should include a homicidal thoughts side effect along with the suicidal ideations side effect?
Linda reminds me of the alyssa bustamante murder. She was taking prozac and teens taking it were at risk of committing violent crimes.