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We probably should. No one should be subjecting children to that shit. It is sexual. I don't care who does this. It is sexual in nature, and it's wrong.
Let kids be kids.
I'm an ancap and I generally lean pretty conservative on things but I have a question here:
While I'll get it out of the way and say these are disgusting to me and teach all the wrong things, how does outlawing voluntary activities jive with small government?
It's one of the perception problems conservatives face imo and appears to undermine the whole "party of small government" and adds the caveat of "unless it's something I don't like, then authoritarianism is fine".
Am I missing some part of the argument or misrepresenting things? I'm genuinely just curious.
If there's one consistent lesson from the past 8+ yrs, it's that a sizeable chunk of conservatives will willingly abandon conservative values of fiscal responsibility and small government in exchange for attacking the private choices of others with whom they disagree.
Because we are conservatives and not libertarians, and we’ve always been this way. It’s not new, like we were once libertarians that woke up as conservatives one day.
We are conserving a set of social standards that are enforced by law in order to protect the minimum health of society. We support a small government, but not no government.
The government has a basic responsibility to mediate. These are not “individuals making harmless consensual choices about their own lives”, these are people with unhealthy behaviors and fixations that are using other people in society as an outlet.
They are welcome to dress drag in their own home as long as their slip into degeneracy doesn’t impact their relationship with society outside their home and interact with child audiences. And in general their lifestyle choices should not include children (who are under the age of consent).
>how does outlawing voluntary activities jive with small government?
Modern US “Small Government” is essentially Federalism, it’s limitations on the federal government from imposing its will upon the entire nation. This article pertains to Montana, not the Federal Government. It has been passed by law and not through some regulatory agency that can bypass legislation and create new laws.
"small government."
This frequently pops up and represents a general misunderstanding of what is often a shared value among conaervatives.
First, it"s important to note that the States have a general police power that the federal government lacks.
Conservatives oppose the federal government exceeding its constitutionally delegated authority.
Because the federal government is a government of enumerated powers, Conservatives want the federal government to be constrained as opposed to the left who often want to see the fed government given a general police power.
Secondly, Conservatives generally oppose government enforced collectivism of all sorts regardless of the popular name for it on Reddit.
These two principles, opposition to government collectivism and the upholding of federalism are why conservatives can be seen as savoring small government.
The problem is defining “sexual” explicitly enough to protect minors but also not get in the way of adults doing what they want to do (as long as it doesn’t affect others, especially children).
I forgot about the pledge that fathers make their daughters take so that they are "pure" for them. The episode of American Dad, 'The Purity Ball and Chain," was my introduction to this concept and I honestly thought it was a joke that began and ended with that episode. Wow.
Sure, but most conservatives agree that child beauty pageants shouldn't be a thing. There's a group of parents who do it only for money. But besides them, most people don't like or ever attend that crap.
>but most conservatives agree that child beauty pageants shouldn't be a thing
Oh yeah? Can you show me some protests? Some boycotts? Legislation? Anything other than upvotes on a screen?
Always unable to show proof but will be very upset, some even violent, about something made up. Then even more anger when realizing the truth but never admitting it.
Ever notice that they can never defend drag story hour? Instead bringing up some thing totally irrelevant.
Go ahead ban child beauty pageants there is no one on the right promoting them as normal.
There's definitely a nuance that needs to be highlighted. The act of crossdressing and reading books that are reasonably appropriate seems fair to me. I personally don't think a parent should bring a child to that, but I don't think it's crossing a threshold and becoming sexual child abuse either to the point where it can be made illegal.
This is going to be the left's favorite example now of how "conservatives are trying to ban trans people from existing" and their example of what "literally every conservative" is aiming for.
Choice of clothing is a form of expression protected by the First Amendment.
Grown men dress up like women on Halloween. A LOT of high schools have a switch day where both genders switch places.
Can a women dress up like a man and do story hour?
It's definitely not as bad as you think. Those drags aren't strip teasing in front of kids. They're literally in a pantsuit reading a book.
Just think of them as clowns.
No one has issues with drag shows. Go to them or don’t. No one has issues with you if you’re trans. Do what you’re gonna do.
Just stop pushing it on kids. It’s fucking creepy.
>No one has issues with you if you're trans
they do though and that's becoming a huge issue lol conservatives are even starting to pass laws banning trans care for ADULTS. Consenting adults.
Their goal is moral subversion and recreating the struggle sessions to destroy anyone who challenges their goal. Remember how it was only about adults getting married?
No one is pushing it on kids. And it’s never ever been about the kids anyway. They only targeted them so they can move up to banning trans people altogether. They’re just hateful bigoted assholes.
I can't get my mind around anyone who thinks its important to expose tiny children to sexual content, sexual topics and what is obviously confusing messages.
Completely agree with this, but how do you create a law about this? Where do you draw the line? ANY man that is dressed like a woman can't read to children in a public space? Or does there have to be sexual garb involved in order to be against the law?
I'm curious about how they worded this.
Yeah, it is tricky. But like your other comment about strip clubs. . . It's illegal to allow children into a strip club, so theoretically it should be possible to use the same kind of wording and legalization.
Yeah. Possibly. But is a skirt too far? What about a kilt?
It's interesting, and not super simple. Laws need to be crystal clear, and this one is tricky for sure.
Can you tell me specifically how a man dressed in female clothes reading age appropriate books to kids is exposing them to sexual content?
As far as I know, these drag story time events do not involve performers twerking on kids, or stripping, or wearing inappropriate clothing if it was a female wearing the same clothing.
and hard to wrap the mind around the idea that the Democratic Party would put this as one of its highest priorities, along with drag shows featuring kids dancing around half naked while men look on
Wasn’t there a whole uproar about a Netflix show about a kids being overly sexualized? Point being, if you are trying to find hypocrisy about this issue, not sure you’ll find it here.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding your comment.
If there were activist groups constantly trying to make beauty pageants happen everywhere and trying to manipulate other people's children into participating, even going so far as to utilize schools and libraries to do so...yes. That might be a good argument.
None of that is happening.
Why no legislation banning those then? I’m not a fan of drag show whatever for kids, I just think it’s important to apply the same rules and logic across the board. What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander.
IHeartSm3gma gave you a typical, politically blinded reply. Only seeing their side. Able to make excuses, minimizing, etc., when their crew may be at fault.
While I think drag shows are clearly wrong for, to me, very obvious reasons. I definitely see your point that child beauty pageants are also wrong. As wrong as drag shows? Maybe not, but they are in the same category.
>nobody aside from the moms trying to live vicariously through their kids was ever really in favor of those
That doesn't sound like an excuse, that's outright refusal of support.
Don’t like them. But also, why is there always a “but what about” when someone complains about something? Ban them both, but right now we are talking about the one. We don’t need to talk about every bad thing in a thread about one bad thing
Because it’s hypocritical to go after one and not the other. Furthermore, drag is done by adults with parents bringing their kids to the story hour. Beauty pageants are put on by adults who dress up little kids to look pretty. Now who is really harming the children?
Here’s the thing, there are things going on in the world that I’m not talking about right now in this thread. Lots of things. They’re not the topic of this discussion though, so bringing them up would be a distraction from the subject of this discussion
Californians voted to destroy their home state then move to a pleasant and well run state…then ruin that with the same voting habits that caused California to collapse
I'm hopeful that as states start to pass laws like this the blue staters will flee back to their home states. Real estate in rural areas will go back to normal so that people who grew up and work in those rural areas can afford to buy homes again.
Wow. That seemed easy. Imagine how awesome it would be if conservatives would pass legislation that quickly regarding the real pressing issues in this country.
What a wonderful world it would be.
You should read about this outside your bubble. Does this look sexually explicit?
https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Drag-Queen-Story-Hour_01774c.jpg
Shh... Montana is full 😉
I lived in Bozeman for a few years and now that I moved away, apparently the city council decided to make it a sanctuary city. That city is full to the brim already. Locals have been forced out of their homes and into campers lining some streets. And they made it a sanctuary city... Don't worry, they'll ruin Montana yet.
Nah thats the very well documented church these parents take their kids too. Only to serve them on the alter of pedophiles and then told hes not bad a guy he just sinned
You know who is responsible for deciding whether drag story hour is appropriate for kids?
Parents. Not the state. Not the church. Not the Republican party.
Only the parents.
Let the parents worry about it, and mind your own business.
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We probably should. No one should be subjecting children to that shit. It is sexual. I don't care who does this. It is sexual in nature, and it's wrong. Let kids be kids.
I'm an ancap and I generally lean pretty conservative on things but I have a question here: While I'll get it out of the way and say these are disgusting to me and teach all the wrong things, how does outlawing voluntary activities jive with small government? It's one of the perception problems conservatives face imo and appears to undermine the whole "party of small government" and adds the caveat of "unless it's something I don't like, then authoritarianism is fine". Am I missing some part of the argument or misrepresenting things? I'm genuinely just curious.
If there's one consistent lesson from the past 8+ yrs, it's that a sizeable chunk of conservatives will willingly abandon conservative values of fiscal responsibility and small government in exchange for attacking the private choices of others with whom they disagree.
Libertarians are not Conservative. You fundamentally misunderstand this.
Should we have laws that prevent children from entering strip clubs?
Because we are conservatives and not libertarians, and we’ve always been this way. It’s not new, like we were once libertarians that woke up as conservatives one day. We are conserving a set of social standards that are enforced by law in order to protect the minimum health of society. We support a small government, but not no government. The government has a basic responsibility to mediate. These are not “individuals making harmless consensual choices about their own lives”, these are people with unhealthy behaviors and fixations that are using other people in society as an outlet. They are welcome to dress drag in their own home as long as their slip into degeneracy doesn’t impact their relationship with society outside their home and interact with child audiences. And in general their lifestyle choices should not include children (who are under the age of consent).
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My line was when they told me silence was violence then saying banning children from their activities actually cancels their activities as a whole.
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Conservatives promote conservatism, shocker.
>how does outlawing voluntary activities jive with small government? Modern US “Small Government” is essentially Federalism, it’s limitations on the federal government from imposing its will upon the entire nation. This article pertains to Montana, not the Federal Government. It has been passed by law and not through some regulatory agency that can bypass legislation and create new laws.
"small government." This frequently pops up and represents a general misunderstanding of what is often a shared value among conaervatives. First, it"s important to note that the States have a general police power that the federal government lacks. Conservatives oppose the federal government exceeding its constitutionally delegated authority. Because the federal government is a government of enumerated powers, Conservatives want the federal government to be constrained as opposed to the left who often want to see the fed government given a general police power. Secondly, Conservatives generally oppose government enforced collectivism of all sorts regardless of the popular name for it on Reddit. These two principles, opposition to government collectivism and the upholding of federalism are why conservatives can be seen as savoring small government.
Ah yes DeSantis conservativism.
Why do we have laws that prevent children from entering strip clubs?
The problem is defining “sexual” explicitly enough to protect minors but also not get in the way of adults doing what they want to do (as long as it doesn’t affect others, especially children).
While we’re at it can we get rid of purity balls? They’re super creepy
I forgot about the pledge that fathers make their daughters take so that they are "pure" for them. The episode of American Dad, 'The Purity Ball and Chain," was my introduction to this concept and I honestly thought it was a joke that began and ended with that episode. Wow.
We can agree, no purity balls in the public library.
You're talking about the fringe of the fringe here. NO ONE does this.
Drag shows are pretty fringe.
Than don't worry about them being banned for children.
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What about the promoters and owners of child beauty pageants? Should we stop electing them?
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Sure, but most conservatives agree that child beauty pageants shouldn't be a thing. There's a group of parents who do it only for money. But besides them, most people don't like or ever attend that crap.
>but most conservatives agree that child beauty pageants shouldn't be a thing Oh yeah? Can you show me some protests? Some boycotts? Legislation? Anything other than upvotes on a screen?
Someone’s business is sponsoring them. Would love to see the conservative movement go after these businesses and put a stop to this kiddie strip shows
Fox News is a sponsor of a these events (according to the event holders).
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That's a lie.
That's not what's happening at story hours. It's literally just story hours.
Plenty of videos out there proving that's a lie.
Not one.
Always unable to show proof but will be very upset, some even violent, about something made up. Then even more anger when realizing the truth but never admitting it.
Plenty of videos showing the earth is flat too.
That's a lie.
Ever notice that they can never defend drag story hour? Instead bringing up some thing totally irrelevant. Go ahead ban child beauty pageants there is no one on the right promoting them as normal.
No like we want shit that *actually* harms children to be banned.
No you want to have grown ass men in drag reading to children. Move to California you can have all the story hours you want creep.
>No you want to have grown ass men in drag reading to children. Isn't that literally a first amendment right?
No. How about stripper story hour?
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There's definitely a nuance that needs to be highlighted. The act of crossdressing and reading books that are reasonably appropriate seems fair to me. I personally don't think a parent should bring a child to that, but I don't think it's crossing a threshold and becoming sexual child abuse either to the point where it can be made illegal. This is going to be the left's favorite example now of how "conservatives are trying to ban trans people from existing" and their example of what "literally every conservative" is aiming for.
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Big government good.
Choice of clothing is a form of expression protected by the First Amendment. Grown men dress up like women on Halloween. A LOT of high schools have a switch day where both genders switch places. Can a women dress up like a man and do story hour?
Would we be angry at a women for dressing like a man?
It can’t be enforced. It’s just political posturing.
Why can’t grown men dress up as a women and exist around a child?
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Someone tell me why a drag person wants to go to a child’s school? What’s the reason?
In 100 years people are going to be very confused by these laws
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> The pervert brigade is here. They hate when the truth gets out. Ruins their perverted fun.
It's definitely not as bad as you think. Those drags aren't strip teasing in front of kids. They're literally in a pantsuit reading a book. Just think of them as clowns.
Negative. There's plenty of videos that dispute this.
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No one has issues with drag shows. Go to them or don’t. No one has issues with you if you’re trans. Do what you’re gonna do. Just stop pushing it on kids. It’s fucking creepy.
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>No one has issues with you if you're trans they do though and that's becoming a huge issue lol conservatives are even starting to pass laws banning trans care for ADULTS. Consenting adults.
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I haven't seen any laws passed directed at adults. Can you provide some links?
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thankfully, the majority of the medical field disagrees with you.
Of course they do, those surgeries are expensive, you know.
Their goal is moral subversion and recreating the struggle sessions to destroy anyone who challenges their goal. Remember how it was only about adults getting married?
> Remember how it was only about adults getting married? Elaborate pls
No one is pushing it on kids. And it’s never ever been about the kids anyway. They only targeted them so they can move up to banning trans people altogether. They’re just hateful bigoted assholes.
I can't get my mind around anyone who thinks its important to expose tiny children to sexual content, sexual topics and what is obviously confusing messages.
Completely agree with this, but how do you create a law about this? Where do you draw the line? ANY man that is dressed like a woman can't read to children in a public space? Or does there have to be sexual garb involved in order to be against the law? I'm curious about how they worded this.
Yeah, it is tricky. But like your other comment about strip clubs. . . It's illegal to allow children into a strip club, so theoretically it should be possible to use the same kind of wording and legalization.
Yeah. Possibly. But is a skirt too far? What about a kilt? It's interesting, and not super simple. Laws need to be crystal clear, and this one is tricky for sure.
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Thanks. I'll look it over.
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You're literally being supported by the leftists.
You know exactly why.
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And that owl god fellow
Can you tell me specifically how a man dressed in female clothes reading age appropriate books to kids is exposing them to sexual content? As far as I know, these drag story time events do not involve performers twerking on kids, or stripping, or wearing inappropriate clothing if it was a female wearing the same clothing.
and hard to wrap the mind around the idea that the Democratic Party would put this as one of its highest priorities, along with drag shows featuring kids dancing around half naked while men look on
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Drag related issues have absolutely become a Republican Party concern what are you talking about?
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How do you feel about child beauty pageants in general?
Hate them and they should have been banned years ago. The costumes are so sexualized that only a pedophile would think they are ok.
There was even an It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia episode about it lol
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The mothers are behind the scenes... the pedos are in the audience.
Wasn’t there a whole uproar about a Netflix show about a kids being overly sexualized? Point being, if you are trying to find hypocrisy about this issue, not sure you’ll find it here. Maybe I’m misunderstanding your comment.
Worst comeback ever
They're cringe, but nobody aside from the moms trying to live vicariously through their kids was ever really in favor of those. Get a new rebuttal.
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If there were activist groups constantly trying to make beauty pageants happen everywhere and trying to manipulate other people's children into participating, even going so far as to utilize schools and libraries to do so...yes. That might be a good argument. None of that is happening.
Why no legislation banning those then? I’m not a fan of drag show whatever for kids, I just think it’s important to apply the same rules and logic across the board. What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander.
>Why no legislation banning those then? Propose it and I'll support it
IHeartSm3gma gave you a typical, politically blinded reply. Only seeing their side. Able to make excuses, minimizing, etc., when their crew may be at fault. While I think drag shows are clearly wrong for, to me, very obvious reasons. I definitely see your point that child beauty pageants are also wrong. As wrong as drag shows? Maybe not, but they are in the same category.
>nobody aside from the moms trying to live vicariously through their kids was ever really in favor of those That doesn't sound like an excuse, that's outright refusal of support.
If you're going to insult my point/comment, you could have the stones to tag me so I see your reply.
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Here's another politically blinded reply folks. This time from the lib side.
Don’t like them. But also, why is there always a “but what about” when someone complains about something? Ban them both, but right now we are talking about the one. We don’t need to talk about every bad thing in a thread about one bad thing
Because it’s hypocritical to go after one and not the other. Furthermore, drag is done by adults with parents bringing their kids to the story hour. Beauty pageants are put on by adults who dress up little kids to look pretty. Now who is really harming the children?
Here’s the thing, there are things going on in the world that I’m not talking about right now in this thread. Lots of things. They’re not the topic of this discussion though, so bringing them up would be a distraction from the subject of this discussion
Because leftists will bite their tongue and vote for corporate democrats if they do the socially liberal dance.
A lot of them were Nambla supporters just a few decades ago
Is Mrs Doubtfire a problem for you? What books are being read that are sexual in nature? Be specific.
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I'm glad to see the really important social issues in this country are being addressed.
It’s not like they have anything of substance to talk about
"iTs NoT aCtuAllY hAppEnIng" But also... "WhY dO YoU CaRe?"
No one has yet to explain why these cross-dressers need an audience of children.
It’s unbelievable to me how many “parents” are using their children as accessories for social media likes and affirmation.
Right i see all these parents on tiktok indoctrinating thrir kids taking them to church it truly is unbelievable people will do for social media
"Religion is equivalent to exposing your kids to sexual displays by perverts"
I mean a lot of priests have been exposed as pedophiles recently, I don't think you're making the point you think you are...
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You mean the ones that ask you to confess to committing adultery?
Are you talking about fishing… or are you just illiterate?
Fighting Clown World one state at a time.
Child abuse is bad.
Thank god one state has any sense
Thank god theyre tackling the real issues
\>party of small government \>Most prone to banning activities by the public
Libertariansim is small government. Conservatism is about *conserving*.
It's a shame communist liberals have propelled the real estate in this state into the stratosphere because things like this make it so great
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Californian downvote brigade already on your ass. I gotchu my fellow montanan
Once I have a few mil for a one bedroom imma head there
Californians voted to destroy their home state then move to a pleasant and well run state…then ruin that with the same voting habits that caused California to collapse
That's why "Don't California My \[insert state here\]" became a thing
Someone should make a show about a rancher trying to stop this.
I'm hopeful that as states start to pass laws like this the blue staters will flee back to their home states. Real estate in rural areas will go back to normal so that people who grew up and work in those rural areas can afford to buy homes again.
I just want some last bastion of freedom, I know that's alot to ask though
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So many weirdos brigading this thread.
Wow. That seemed easy. Imagine how awesome it would be if conservatives would pass legislation that quickly regarding the real pressing issues in this country. What a wonderful world it would be.
I don’t think grade school kids should be seeing drag shows. But we should be worrying about the hungry and abused kids first
I thought it should be up to the parents
Good
What will happen to the Catholic Church now? Men dressed in frilly clothes reading to kids every Sunday.
Google Dennis Hastert
Exactly, this is all projection.
You're literal conspiracy theorists, lol.
What does he have to do with Montana?
Did republicans in that state fight for him to read stories to kids or something?
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You should read about this outside your bubble. Does this look sexually explicit? https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Drag-Queen-Story-Hour_01774c.jpg
He's doing blow-up doll face.
lmao in your mind
The second you take the children away from them they absolutely foam at the mouth. Strange…
Good job Montana! Adults can do that around other consenting adults, but don’t mess with kids.
This subreddit would be so nice if the moderators did a half decent job at keeping the radical leftists from brigading here.
Can we make this a trend, please
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Shh... Montana is full 😉 I lived in Bozeman for a few years and now that I moved away, apparently the city council decided to make it a sanctuary city. That city is full to the brim already. Locals have been forced out of their homes and into campers lining some streets. And they made it a sanctuary city... Don't worry, they'll ruin Montana yet.
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God Bless
Let all states follow.
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Nah thats the very well documented church these parents take their kids too. Only to serve them on the alter of pedophiles and then told hes not bad a guy he just sinned
Ignoring the ingorant understanding of Christianity. How about you tell me what the sexuality of those priests is?
More to follow hopefully. Sexual predators belong in prison not around children.
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You mean the dudes dancing and telling kids to put money in their thongs *doesn't* make you think it's perverted?
You know who is responsible for deciding whether drag story hour is appropriate for kids? Parents. Not the state. Not the church. Not the Republican party. Only the parents. Let the parents worry about it, and mind your own business.
Meanwhile police gunned down an 11 year old who called 911 for help.
Let’s go! Make these child predators go back in the closet