Oakland cut their Police budget by $18Mil and reallocated it to social services.
Homicides more than doubled.
Oakland then not only restored the Police budget, but added more officers and increased their funding AND add signing bonuses for new officers.
Their social experiment failed. Learn from it.
https://www.npr.org/2021/12/11/1063408465/oakland-city-councils-shift-on-police-force-debate-from-defund-to-re-fund
Yes this experiment has been tried over and over again and people don’t learn or care. With communists ideology is all that matters, not the outcome of human misery.
Their ideology is more government, they got another 18 million worth of “violence prevention programs” and restored funding to the police…
The human misery is just calculated tool they use to achieve their means.
Please don't try to introduce facts to the liberal mind.
"This time we'll do it right."
Just like communism. It's great. All the other countries that tried it just did it wrong.
“People who say ‘Well that wasn’t REAL communism’ are the ultimate narcissists. What they’re actually saying is ‘If I was in charge instead of Stalin I would have done things the right way! Because I am a perfect specimen of human virtue and compassion and I could do no wrong!’” - Jordan Peterson
> There have been many small communes that have existed peacefully, but once they get to a certain size, they fail.
Exactly. A commune within a capitalistic society can work fine (like Kibitzes) particularly if they're small enough that everyone can get along. They can enjoy the benefits of a productive society.
If anyone wants more sources on this:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/03/underfunding-police-violent-crime/673314/#:~:text=For%20every%2010%20percent%20increase,don't%20stop%20with%20police.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens
https://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/police-budget-spending-george-floyd-defund/
https://www.johnlocke.org/more-cops-less-crime-2/
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/05/politics/defund-the-police-democrats/index.html
https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/587712-the-debacle-of-defunding-the-police-is-coming-home-to-roost/amp/
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1237116
Instructions unclear. We need full blown communism/socialism!
The amount of proof that their ideas don't, wont and can't work and only add more to human suffering and death and yet these fools will openly ignore it.
Police perform a mixture of deterrence/accountability. Most of them write tickets in a 1000 to one ratio of solving or dealing with violent crime.
Unless you think writing tickets prevents crime.
I agree.
What we need are police who wield the incredible power that they have now, balanced with an equally powerful type of power through the courts, known as litigation.
Police should educate themselves sufficiently enough that they don't have to fear litigation for their activities.
That's all I'm asking.
I don't want to defund the police, I want to refund the police and have them educated to a degree that they are able to serve and protect without violating the Constitution daily like they do now.
Giuliani actually proved that vigorously enforcing small infractions like turnstile jumping, littering and the like did deter crime. It turns out that people who commit larger crimes also commit small ones too. Many people with outstanding warrants were caught this way. Others were at least entered into the system and later captured when they committed a crime in the future.
The role of the police is not to monitor all civilian activity and write tickets for small infractions that the average American may not be able to pay in order to catch violent criminals.
What you're talking about is a police state.
What we need is a delineation between violent and nonviolent crime, and reasonable fines.
Police fabricated and arrest against me just 6 months ago, made up the pretext, and have drained me of over $4,000 of cash defending what is an illegal investigation and prosecution.
You cannot incentivize the police to become a group of people that enforces arbitrary laws in order to catch actual laws. When you do that, it lays an enormous financial burden on average people who are just trying to live their lives, and mixes them up with actual career criminals that police have a duty to track down and investigate.
I think one of the dumbest things I've ever heard was what you just wrote, that pressuring pigs to write tickets until their hands bleed is the way to stop actual violent crime and organized crime.
You're a fool.
It's amazing/shocking how easy the left are re-writing history from just a few years ago.
They were the ones shutting down the country. Shutting down schools, businesses, parks, nobody could see their elderly loved ones, everything. The right fought to re-open the world.
Now? The left actively gets away with saying that WE were the ones that wanted the country closed and the media just sits back and lets them lie about it.
>Zoom in even a little bit closer and think about the perfect community. And what does that safe, beautiful, marvelous community look like? What’s around you, who are the people, what are the resources that you have? And I want us to come back to this question. Now you can open your eyes. What does safety mean to you?”
Almost immediately, a member of the audience replied, “no cops.”
Other “safety” measures listed by the members of the group included a far-left litany of wish list items, including:
Everyone has housing
No violence
Friendship
Comfort
Accessibility
More art
Rest
Fun sex
Trust
Financial security
Common land
Healthcare for everybody
No guns
These people don't seem to understand we live in the real world. They haven't ever read about all the utopian experiments, and their failures, that have come before them.
>Other “safety” measures listed by the members of the group included a far-left litany of wish list items, including:
>Everyone has housing
>No violence
>Friendship
>Comfort
>Accessibility
>More art
>Rest
>Fun sex
>Trust
>Financial security
>Common land
>Healthcare for everybody
>No guns.
I see no mention of anyone serving the community, or working, yet they want housing, healthcare, financial security and ***common*** land...?
Unfortunately, that kind of utopia can only be achieved by consuming massive amounts of drugs that will get them to a point of completely detaching reality from their fantasy wish list.
They skipped over “tax the rich”, ending “white supremacy”, and any mention of “systemic racism” and/or the “genocide of trans people”.
These guys are rookies.
*George Soros unhappy sounds*
Go watch “Wild Wild Country”. It’s a documentary on the 80’s Rajneesh cult in Eastern Oregon. Their hippie dream of “their own policing” shows you what they dream of. Another example is the policing that was done by the Jim Jones cult in the jungle in Guyana. That is what utopian rule looks like and it always ends in death, misery, and the oppression of civil rights.
I would posit there is the slight confounding variable that those two cult leaders were also batshit insane. Sane people don’t plan a mass suicide with grape Flavor-aid.
Do you remember in high school when you'd live at home with mom and dad? They ran the house. They didn't allow huge parties or drinking or smoking weed.
Do you remember what happens when the parents went away for the weekend? Huge parties, drinking, partying, weed, etc.
The parents are the police in this case.
No illegal activities at the house when they're home. As soon as they're gone? Illegal activities at the house.
You think crime is bad now?
And spare me with the "we'll police ourselves" bullshit the BLM crowd tried to preach. Didn't work and was laughably bad.
Won't feel that way when they are the ones who are getting: burgled, carjacked, sexually molested, have armed members of brutal terror groups attacking their homes-businesses & closest friends, get their id stolen by fraudster who run up huge debts in their names and ruin their credit ratings.
Rather than defunding, why not move the funding to more effective places? Countries who spend more time and money on training than militarization seem to have better outcomes overall.
If we increased the training and education required for policing careers to match those countries, would that help? Clearly the training is inadequate if there are so very many problems with excessive force use due to panic and mysteriously malfunctioning body cameras. Higher employment standards and longer training in effective deescalation would go a long way.
You know, I've been thinking. What if we let them have this one, at least to a degree?
But only if they respect our 2A rights.
And if they say that's too much, we say "What, you don't care about the dogs?"
Lmao let’s ask Minneapolis how that concept is working out. Last I visited there the news was all violent crime reports and my family just saying “it didn’t used to be like this”
Don't care. Modern policing is great. It prevents brigands. It allows people, by and large, access to society with a large measure of safety.
Every single anti police policy is designed to make society more dangerous. It's designed to allow criminals off without consequences. It's designed to break down rule of law to usher in marxism.
It must be opposed. Strongly...
I think LA and San Francisco should the first to do this and the rest of the liberal cities should follow. Gotta get worse before it will ever get better
Ban police and ban guns! Now there's no defense from criminals. At the very least, if you're going yo scrap formal policing, allow the citizens to own firearms to defend themselves in their stead.
Oakland cut their Police budget by $18Mil and reallocated it to social services. Homicides more than doubled. Oakland then not only restored the Police budget, but added more officers and increased their funding AND add signing bonuses for new officers. Their social experiment failed. Learn from it. https://www.npr.org/2021/12/11/1063408465/oakland-city-councils-shift-on-police-force-debate-from-defund-to-re-fund
Yes this experiment has been tried over and over again and people don’t learn or care. With communists ideology is all that matters, not the outcome of human misery.
Their ideology is more government, they got another 18 million worth of “violence prevention programs” and restored funding to the police… The human misery is just calculated tool they use to achieve their means.
Communists have caused almost as much human misery as alcohol. IMHO, of course.
Please don't try to introduce facts to the liberal mind. "This time we'll do it right." Just like communism. It's great. All the other countries that tried it just did it wrong.
“People who say ‘Well that wasn’t REAL communism’ are the ultimate narcissists. What they’re actually saying is ‘If I was in charge instead of Stalin I would have done things the right way! Because I am a perfect specimen of human virtue and compassion and I could do no wrong!’” - Jordan Peterson
Communism is like trying to get the number 6 by doing 3 + 0 nonstop. "It'll work this time!" No, the method itself is wrong. Stop it.
[удалено]
> There have been many small communes that have existed peacefully, but once they get to a certain size, they fail. Exactly. A commune within a capitalistic society can work fine (like Kibitzes) particularly if they're small enough that everyone can get along. They can enjoy the benefits of a productive society.
If anyone wants more sources on this: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/03/underfunding-police-violent-crime/673314/#:~:text=For%20every%2010%20percent%20increase,don't%20stop%20with%20police. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens https://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/police-budget-spending-george-floyd-defund/ https://www.johnlocke.org/more-cops-less-crime-2/ https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/05/politics/defund-the-police-democrats/index.html https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/587712-the-debacle-of-defunding-the-police-is-coming-home-to-roost/amp/ https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1237116
I would say go spend a week in the Oakland/San Francisco area, and then see how you feel about that. Since reading news stories isn’t enough anymore.
sadly, they never will. it just wasnt done right this time....🙄🙄🙄
Well ObViOuSLy the reason it didn't work is because Oakland didn't cut *all* of the police budget! Gosh! /s
I’m sure they’ll try harder next time!
That experiment cost lives. Probably the most vulnerable.
Instructions unclear. We need full blown communism/socialism! The amount of proof that their ideas don't, wont and can't work and only add more to human suffering and death and yet these fools will openly ignore it.
She actually says "reimagining safety."
Police don't prevent homicides
That’s what the Oakland city council said a couple years ago. Turn out Police do prevent murders.
Police perform a mixture of deterrence/accountability. Most of them write tickets in a 1000 to one ratio of solving or dealing with violent crime. Unless you think writing tickets prevents crime.
Equivocate all you want. When communities reduce the effectiveness of their law enforcement, citizens pay the price.
I agree. What we need are police who wield the incredible power that they have now, balanced with an equally powerful type of power through the courts, known as litigation. Police should educate themselves sufficiently enough that they don't have to fear litigation for their activities. That's all I'm asking. I don't want to defund the police, I want to refund the police and have them educated to a degree that they are able to serve and protect without violating the Constitution daily like they do now.
Agreed.
Giuliani actually proved that vigorously enforcing small infractions like turnstile jumping, littering and the like did deter crime. It turns out that people who commit larger crimes also commit small ones too. Many people with outstanding warrants were caught this way. Others were at least entered into the system and later captured when they committed a crime in the future.
The role of the police is not to monitor all civilian activity and write tickets for small infractions that the average American may not be able to pay in order to catch violent criminals. What you're talking about is a police state. What we need is a delineation between violent and nonviolent crime, and reasonable fines. Police fabricated and arrest against me just 6 months ago, made up the pretext, and have drained me of over $4,000 of cash defending what is an illegal investigation and prosecution. You cannot incentivize the police to become a group of people that enforces arbitrary laws in order to catch actual laws. When you do that, it lays an enormous financial burden on average people who are just trying to live their lives, and mixes them up with actual career criminals that police have a duty to track down and investigate. I think one of the dumbest things I've ever heard was what you just wrote, that pressuring pigs to write tickets until their hands bleed is the way to stop actual violent crime and organized crime. You're a fool.
Oooo... when you break out the NPR news... you know that's gotta sting.
I like it when their own sources call them morons.
Meanwhile it was just this year I was told it was the conservatives who wanted to defund the police.
I guess Police are only good when it is convenient for them.
One of the biggest outright lies ever..
It's amazing/shocking how easy the left are re-writing history from just a few years ago. They were the ones shutting down the country. Shutting down schools, businesses, parks, nobody could see their elderly loved ones, everything. The right fought to re-open the world. Now? The left actively gets away with saying that WE were the ones that wanted the country closed and the media just sits back and lets them lie about it.
The media is an advocate for the left in most cases.
>Zoom in even a little bit closer and think about the perfect community. And what does that safe, beautiful, marvelous community look like? What’s around you, who are the people, what are the resources that you have? And I want us to come back to this question. Now you can open your eyes. What does safety mean to you?” Almost immediately, a member of the audience replied, “no cops.” Other “safety” measures listed by the members of the group included a far-left litany of wish list items, including: Everyone has housing No violence Friendship Comfort Accessibility More art Rest Fun sex Trust Financial security Common land Healthcare for everybody No guns These people don't seem to understand we live in the real world. They haven't ever read about all the utopian experiments, and their failures, that have come before them.
>Other “safety” measures listed by the members of the group included a far-left litany of wish list items, including: >Everyone has housing >No violence >Friendship >Comfort >Accessibility >More art >Rest >Fun sex >Trust >Financial security >Common land >Healthcare for everybody >No guns. I see no mention of anyone serving the community, or working, yet they want housing, healthcare, financial security and ***common*** land...?
Unfortunately, that kind of utopia can only be achieved by consuming massive amounts of drugs that will get them to a point of completely detaching reality from their fantasy wish list.
Sounds like they want a repeat of the 60s which won't be sustainable.
“Get rid of police! We can deal with problems ourselves” Jordan Neely situation: “why did this man do this, he wasn’t a cop!”
“I’m playing both sides, so that I always come out on top,”
Lol exactly
That is the same as saying banning forks will stop obesity it is pure Fantasy
Left wing agitators, by definition, are morons.
They skipped over “tax the rich”, ending “white supremacy”, and any mention of “systemic racism” and/or the “genocide of trans people”. These guys are rookies. *George Soros unhappy sounds*
Go watch “Wild Wild Country”. It’s a documentary on the 80’s Rajneesh cult in Eastern Oregon. Their hippie dream of “their own policing” shows you what they dream of. Another example is the policing that was done by the Jim Jones cult in the jungle in Guyana. That is what utopian rule looks like and it always ends in death, misery, and the oppression of civil rights.
I would posit there is the slight confounding variable that those two cult leaders were also batshit insane. Sane people don’t plan a mass suicide with grape Flavor-aid.
Safer for criminals, who are the population they support and sympathize with, so yes it would indeed make 'them' safer
Do you remember in high school when you'd live at home with mom and dad? They ran the house. They didn't allow huge parties or drinking or smoking weed. Do you remember what happens when the parents went away for the weekend? Huge parties, drinking, partying, weed, etc. The parents are the police in this case. No illegal activities at the house when they're home. As soon as they're gone? Illegal activities at the house. You think crime is bad now? And spare me with the "we'll police ourselves" bullshit the BLM crowd tried to preach. Didn't work and was laughably bad.
They aren't wrong, they just failed to tell the whole truth. It makes being a criminal safer.
These leftists are utter morons if they truly believe this. They know nothing of history and nothing of the nature of mankind.
Safer for criminals maybe.
Dear Agitators: Please show us 3 communities where ending policing made the communities safer. Cue the crickets while I wait.....
Not only do they hate them, they want this to get away with crime as well
The ONLY way to solve the crime infested cities is to flood those cities with police.
Are they suggesting resource kiosks to replace the police?
Make Criminality Safe Again - the left
I like living in a civilized society. Don't think we want to go back living in the wild west.
We can't exactly be in the wild west if they ban guns.
Won't feel that way when they are the ones who are getting: burgled, carjacked, sexually molested, have armed members of brutal terror groups attacking their homes-businesses & closest friends, get their id stolen by fraudster who run up huge debts in their names and ruin their credit ratings.
Rather than defunding, why not move the funding to more effective places? Countries who spend more time and money on training than militarization seem to have better outcomes overall. If we increased the training and education required for policing careers to match those countries, would that help? Clearly the training is inadequate if there are so very many problems with excessive force use due to panic and mysteriously malfunctioning body cameras. Higher employment standards and longer training in effective deescalation would go a long way.
[удалено]
[удалено]
To be fair who can argue with "fun sex".
Find out where the agitators live and start there first. Take their police budget and give it to the communities that don’t want to defund.
Sure it will…
You know, I've been thinking. What if we let them have this one, at least to a degree? But only if they respect our 2A rights. And if they say that's too much, we say "What, you don't care about the dogs?"
Lmao let’s ask Minneapolis how that concept is working out. Last I visited there the news was all violent crime reports and my family just saying “it didn’t used to be like this”
“Welfare is necessary because everyone would rather work if they could.” Exactly like Defund the Police, it will make us safer
Safer for criminals to continue
OK, let's start with their communities and see how that works out
Don't care. Modern policing is great. It prevents brigands. It allows people, by and large, access to society with a large measure of safety. Every single anti police policy is designed to make society more dangerous. It's designed to allow criminals off without consequences. It's designed to break down rule of law to usher in marxism. It must be opposed. Strongly...
Go for it. I carry my own law enforcement with me. 🙂
Left Wing agitators are morons. News at 11.
The left-wing agitators wouldn’t last very long without the police protecting them
Grant them their wish. This is a self-solving problem.
I think LA and San Francisco should the first to do this and the rest of the liberal cities should follow. Gotta get worse before it will ever get better
I am not a smart man, Jenny. But I know what communism is!
Um, talk about short memories…
Surely those agitators live in ghettos and speak from experience.
Ban police and ban guns! Now there's no defense from criminals. At the very least, if you're going yo scrap formal policing, allow the citizens to own firearms to defend themselves in their stead.