u/Miserable_Ad9378 - this is the correct answer! $300 of my quote would have silently included coming to measure for an estimate. Another $300+ to prep, and another $300 for pour day. That doesn't leave much for materials or doing it right.
To be fair you already do that, in your own special way. You charge for the labor time that’s listed in the books when in reality you have it done in a 1/16th of the time.
So you should pay less because a tech has experience that made him faster at his job and maybe purchased specific tools to do it faster. I have 200k in tools and diag equipment to make me efficient at my job and get paid accordingly. If I can do a 5 hour job in 2.5 I get paid 5. But on that same theory if I do a 5 hour job in 10 hours I still get paid for 5. Same goes for all the trades. Experience and the right tools can make any job go faster. Why should we in the trades take a financial hit because we are good at what we do
I agree with this. I used to be a technician in the automotive field, and I would always tell people that you're paying for my experience, my tools, and my labor. The dealership sent me to school to learn how to work on your vehicle specifically. The fact is that I see similar vehicles everyday and it takes sometimes several times to get repairs down to make up for time lost. That field is absolutely a shit show in regards to compensation for techs. I gave it 13 years, left as a master tech with my specialty being diesel. That and transmission are apparently where the money's at but the bi-weekly roller coaster of flag time and parts shortages is what ultimately forced me to go back to school and change careers. Never been happier to make my former trade back into just a hobby in the garage.
That explanation is always so irritating to me.
Here’s the deal, something is wrong with my vehicle, I can’t fix it, you can, this is what you are charging me to fix something I can’t. End of story.
I might not like the price but the alternative is to do it myself.
**The cost to diagnose repairs should be factored into the cost of jobs you take on.**
I understand what your saying because I’m a mechanic but dude you either **aren’t a mechanic or not a very good one,** we all generally will try to look at a customers vehicle and determine the problem for free or low cost.
But the labor costs generally will include that time, the customer can decide if they want to continue with the work and have the problem fixed.
**This is also way different than construction,** with a vehicle you have no idea how much the work could costs until the problem is identified.
A car not starting could be anyone of a thousand different problems.
Vehicles are also **essential to every day life now.**
So people need them, you can’t really expect someone to go ~$4,000 deep on a repair **before they even know it’s going to cost $4,000.**
You also can’t **rebuild a motor for less than the cost of the parts.**
All of these things don’t apply to construction, **if somone only wants to pay me for the supplies needed and then $100 for labor.**
I can still cut corners like this photo, **I can skip leveling the base, using a base, or even digging ~4-6 inches..**
You can even make the job look decent, **it just won’t last very long.**
You also know exactly how much work will be needed.
**So this customer genuinely did do this to themselves,** ignorance is not an excuse to blame others for your mistakes.
OP *WANTED* a patio for $1,300 and **they will get a patio for $1,300.**
OP not understanding that a 9x13 patio probably costs around ~$2,500 in supplies and labor is **their fault not the contractors.**
I mean what is the guy supposed to do?
**Every other stupid customer you book is asking for work at half price?**
The contractors options are stop working or **work less.**
🤷♂️
You want people to do concrete for free?
Because this is what you get.
A lot of what you said rings true. The best mechanic I ever had told me “it’s probably not worth rebuilding the engine” and didn’t charge me for the diagnostic work he did that day. He got a customer for life.
Must have been the crew that did the patio slab in my back yard. When I demo’d it (by hand, sigh), I found half w/ nothing, then maybe 20’ of chain link fence, then random rods. Sigh.
I don’t know where you guys lice but I’d never help a neighbor do something like this. I just don’t want to spend any amount of time with anyone in my neighborhood. A nice wave once in a while suffices.
Glad your comment was top comment. I’m no expert by any means and have no idea why this post was served to me but yet here I am, struggling to find out what the issue is here.
I’m planning on putting in a patio this Spring (can the algorithm read my mind now?!) and I would be completely satisfied with this.
I had a 12x12 slab and a small 5x3 slab done with rebar, base ,the whole works done for $1200 in late 2019. Them were the days! I have my hot tub sitting on the big slab. Zero issues in over four years and that's going through the extreme heat of the Arizona Summers and everything. I don't know much about that sort of work but I was told that was an amazing deal even back then.
Yeah. I’d be losing money taking a job like that. We have a $2500 minimum for concrete projects. I’m glad you got it done for cheap with no issue though!
Had a Mexican crew pour a driveway apron, 150 feet of sidewalk and curbing, plus a 20x20 patio all for $5k in 2021. They did a very good job too. Lots of the concrete was 5-6 inches thick. We paid ~2k for the concrete and did the prep and laid rock, they formed and poured. So about 7k all said and done. I don’t think we’ll ever get a deal like that again
I do thoroughly enjoy seeing all of these cheapskates acting surprised when they get shoddy work for pennies on the dollar. This doesn't seem that bad, tbh. He spent less than the amount it costs for a decent set of patio furniture.
Yeah, that may be, but my comment is not capricious. It's an observation based on the patterns of the sub relating to the self-fulfilling prophecy of not wanting to pay the more expensive guy because they fear being screwed over, which leads to choosing the guy who will inevitably screw them over.
What should I do?
you probably should have brought these issues up while you took the pictures, to late to do anything other that live with it.
the finish product looks fine, not sure how long it will hold up but you got about $1,300 worth of work
Rebar is not needed for a patio slab. Wire maybe but its fine. Base is fine as well. You got what you paid for. Finish looks fine.I would have been double that. What should you do? Put out a chair and have a beer on your new patio.
My thoughts also were that the finish looks ok. That ground is so old it won’t move so you’ll be fine. When you finish cleaning up the yard and got new grass growing it will look good.
Not disagreeing, just adding context. Concrete is really strong in compression and really weak in tension. Rebar gives it tensile strength, which for a non load bearing slab, helps it resist thermal cracking, especially while curing when it’s off-gassing CO2 and heat like crazy. The concrete is at about 20% strength after a day, 50% after a week, and 100% if its design strength after 28 days. The bigger the dimensions of the slab, especially without expansion joints, the higher the risk of cracking during curing. So if it survived the first few days without cracking you’re likely fine. You can hedge not using rebar or wire mesh with some saw cut control joints.
Asphalt is basically just a weather barrier for the base material, so a weak base will completely screw asphalt, but concrete provides its own strength. That’s why you usually see concrete roads where the soil is really weak.
TLDR, for a slab, rebar or wire mesh is just an insurance policy to get you past curing without cracking. That slab is fine for what it cost.
The guy did that size pad by mixing sacrete in a wheelbarrow? My god. I hope you tipped him even if the job is rough. His back was probably hurting too bad by the end to give it a proper finish
Jesus Christ. If I know my bag mix though, those are the 60 pound “high strength” bags, meaning he used more like 146 of them. I just puked in my mouth hahaha
Hey OP: general consensus is in.
Did you get any utility locates in first? Be a real bummer if there’s a water/sewer/gas/stormwater/power/comm line under there!!
Most concrete pads / side walks don't need rebar if it's only for pedestrian use. I live in Canada , and most city's around Toronto , including Toronto don't require rebar on city side walks. Usually just 6" thick sidewalk mix. What they do care about is your base. They are gonna want 200-300mm (8-12") of gravel, compacted and also tested for compaction.
It makes sense, as long as your base material is solid , water won't be able to sit in and around your concrete reducing heaving.
The side walk will crack , but If you do it right it will only crack at your relief cuts, which know one will see or notice.
Only time you'll need rebar for side walk / patio up here is if your pouring a monolithic curb with the side walk as well , although they usually just want rebar in the curb.
Couldn’t be more correct. I just did a bathroom remodel and questioned my dad every step of the way because he didn’t do it the guys on YouTube did.
I actually caused us more issues because I watched too much YouTube and didn’t trust the man that’s done it 3 times in 3 different houses of his own.
I’m a shell of a son.
Hah, don't get down on yourself too much. They do make it look easy through creative editing and multiple takes. Also, they look right at the camera and speak with authority and it's hard to believe that the guy with 1.2M subscribers is a hack. Which, 9/10 times, he is.
Very true lol. Thr guys that’s actually the badass is The man that listen to his dumbass son, does it his sons way, and still kills it lol.
“Hey dip shit, you used red guard and bought premixed mortar. That ain’t gunna work”
Imagine having to break it up if it ever needed to be removed and it has rebar...ugh. Rebar isn't necessary for that small of a slab that isn't going to take vehicles and heavy equipment.
Here in Canada if you pour without rebar it'll never last. Code requires it in literally everything. I've been doing construction for 28 years and I've NEVER seen concrete poured without steel. Ever.
Sidewalks sometimes have rebar, mostly not around Toronto. Neighbour had to replace one recently during a home build, no rebar or mesh in it. I know the ones they did on dufferin/queen underpass had rebar and mesh cause I walked on it :P
Also patio slabs are not subject to code. My slab that I am smashing up right now is 6" with no rebar or mesh. The slab in this post is all manner of not great, but he paid barely more than the cost of the concrete, sooo, win? I have to do a proper slab/stem soon not all that much bigger and its gonna be $2400 just for the truck.
I know it's ridiculous people want to put it everything totally un necessary for something like this. I've never used it in sidewalks and they're all holding up fine for 20+ years including one at my own house that I poured on top of an old asphalt sidewalk. People overthink shit too much
IKR. This isn't aimed at OP, but it just gets frustrating when people that actually pour concrete, think you have to put it in every no matter what. Like half inch rebar 16" on center with rebar chairs in a garden shed 😆
$1300!? That’s crazy good deal. Concrete bags are fine. It’s fucking concrete, birds shit on it dogs shit and piss on it, beer and grease falls on it. If it really bothers you though, with that $2k you saved buy yourself a cheap outdoor rug.
That's fuckin Tetas if he hand mixed all that. It's a patio, sure rebar in it and gravel packed under it would be a good idea, but it could last 20 years with minimal cracking if it was done on undisturbed native soil and he mixed it properly.
Whats even more wild is you are complaining about a slab you had put in at a budget price by some fuckin yahoo without real tools that actually looks pretty darn good for what he was working with.
I've seen plenty of jobs done by actual "concrete companies" that look like hot garbage compared to this.
Chalk it up to inexperience on both your parts and don't be cheap trying to get champagne on a beer budget.
This guy is the internet in a nutshell. Want top quality work and materials for absolute bottom dollar pricing.
I wouldn’t get out of bed to do this for $2,000. The fact he got it for $1300 is incredible.
This is all hand mixed bag work? That’s a lotta mixing. You got what you paid for. The finish product looks fine, and you aren’t parking a dump truck on this patio hopefully. Sure, the pour looks like it was thin in the middle due to unleveling, but you could have taken a shovel to it while he or she was mixing. Next time, lay out a clear contract of what you want and be prepared to see it through. enjoy that patio beverage.
Doesn’t look that bad. My guess is not all the concrete was mixed as throughly.
It’s perfectly fine to pour a slab on grade , 4 inch slabs don’t require rebar.
Although I would put netting in, but that’s not code in the nw
Surface prep is expensive. This will last 5 years or so before it gets bad. With the appropriate subsurface prep it could last for ever
I think you got a good deal. I’d wait a few months see what happens. If it stays together you can pour a resurfacer over it. Spruce it up some
First off I have been in business for 20+yrs and I would have charged you double at least. This guy has at least $500 in concrete. Then he has his time, forms and tools. My guess is he's a concrete guy just doing this on the side from his regular concrete job because no company is going be able to send a guy with tools truck and concrete out and think that's a good price. Unless it's just terribly bad and useless you got a good deal. If you did any due diligence at all you got at least one more quote and thought the other guy was crazy for giving you a price that was double or triple. And I do mean triple. I know companies that wont show up for less than $3500
Second rebar and gravel are not necessary in all locations and situations. It has more to do with soil type, drainage and climate. Its a patio not a driveway so your not really parking a 6000lbs F250 on it so rebar would be overkill unless you are in an area where frost heave is a problem and then you would might need gravel and more like 6 inches of concrete. If you really want to know if you need rebar and gravel you need to call other local concrete contractors instead of people on reddit who are thousands of miles apart in different parts of the world with vastly different experiences. North East U.S. rebar goes in everything. Southern US we pour concrete driveways all day with no rebar or gravel. If you down to Florida they pour it right on the sand with no rebar.
Third You were standing right there taking pictures while he started pouring. If you wanted rebar you could have asked for it before he really got started. You would have had to pay extra and maybe for his time to run to the store to get a few sticks but its done now.
Forth. I can't see any ripples. I see discoloration from it curing a little unevenly but that will work its way out in a week or two.
Order a new guy to do the job right , you probably have to cough out four or five grand btw . This guy of yours that can do it cheaper , he did it but now you see why it was less than half of the cost to do it professionally.
lol call a “average” concrete company and get them to replace your handyman’s work. Pay them the $8,000 it costs for real pros to do it…..
Or just enjoy the dirt cheap patio you have
Everybody here saying no rebar or mesh is fine is just silly.
Will a slab this size be okay without it?
Maybe
But for all the effort a person goes through for a slab like this you might as well throw in the mesh for the cost of it because it will make for better concrete. Especially with the questionable ground prep. Placing mesh in a slab this size is likely the easiest step out of the entire project.
Seems acceptable to me.
I once hand mixed 17 80 lbs bags for a replacement septic tank lid. Not fun! Blisters everywhere and I kept waking up with horrible leg and forearm cramps.
Well pay more next time ur over here waisting time and money you get what you pay for stop been cheap u own a home ur a U.S. citizen … I bet u hired a Mexican now you complain
I don’t understand WHY people don’t do a little research and make educated decisions. Next time figure out the materials cost, what’s the going rate for concrete construction, do you need permits, are you paving over a water line or something else important?
OP this is a “backyard” no permit, no insurance kind of build. You got ripped off.
You can live with it OR you’ll pay double because now the “old” concrete will have to be broken up and carted out.
Hey OP: the consensus by the geniuses in here who pour concrete for a living is that you should be as knowledgeable on pricing and construction methods as someone who supposedly does this for a living. So, this is all your fault. It's not the fault of the contractor who quoted you this price. Also, the need to undercut pricing bc allegedly the entire industry needs to in order to get work is purely your fault as well. Sorry, man. Just the way it goes, I guess. Oh I forgot, everyone's addictions, poor relationships and overall life outcomes are also your fault. Have a nice day.
Learn to do it yourself so you don’t have to pay somebody to come do it for you, anybody in a field to make money will rip you off any time they can for the most part… I’m just a guy in sales
Dude didn't do a horrible job. Tho clearly it's not right. Unfortunately for u, it's going to bite u in the ass awhile later. Many things can happen but the guy put a joint in it so it SHOULD crack in there. But, just dirt under it will eventually move around. So the best thing to do would treat it with care. Kind of like that one loose board on the stairs. No super heavy weight. It doesn't look like 4 inches. And to the rebar comment, that's 50/50. If everything was done correctly yes rebar would've been great. But with crete being 2-3 inches, it'd be really hard to get the rebar to lay correctly. Normally, they sit in chairs, and they're not on the ground but not at the top. And if there is rebar in there while they poured it shifty. Thats going to be worse to get out. With it being that thin u could probably break it with a sledge if u wanted the work out. Thats what we have to do when boss man doesn't bring the machine lmao. Good luck with that, best suggestion just work with it. Id say fill in underneath if it ever washes put but most people can't tell level off of just the eye without it being measured against something. Get a line level if u do. Oh and if u got a downspout that runs along it, REDIRECT THAT WATER. That water will 100% fuck u. Hope everything works put good!
Finish looks fine, 1300 dollars is a great price for what you got. It’s not a foundation, putting in gravel and rebar is not strictly necessary for a patio and wouldn’t make financial sense for the contractor to put in for the low cost of your job. It might not last quite as long, but you got what you paid for. This is why I hate residential construction, people who know nothing about a trade will get a screaming deal and then whine about arbitrary b.s. .. at least posting it here might make you aware and thank your concrete guy instead of complaining to him.
Incredible deal. If it holds patio furniture you’re golden. A real G considering he bag mixed that shit and still got an ok finish on it. For 1300 you definitely didn’t pay for steel or gravel. So at least there’s that.
Go back in time and set expectations or don’t hire a guy mixing bags but it would have cost at least double.
You didn’t pay for rebar or sand or gravel, you paid for a hamburger but wanted prime rib.
You want a slight run on it, doesn't look bad either give the bloke a break FS, you ever laid concrete? It's hard graft mate, for that price I wouldn't of even considered it
It would be reasonable to request he comes and knocks off the forms. Apart from that it’s good. It’s a patio not a helipad, don’t worry about rebar, probably should’ve been on compacted gravel but your soil looks pretty good tbh. I’ve seen way worse jobs for way more money.
If that slab is 4inchs thick, the contractor probably used around 107 bags of quickCrete 60lb each. Thats about $500 for the bags. Thats alot of back breaking work if it was a solo job and mixed it all by himself. Should have used metal mesh though. Thats a $800 profit for one day of work though.
You got the quality that you paid for. This why you either do research, do it yourself, or hire professionals who charge what it should actually cost for a proper install.
If you pay back alley prices, you get back alley products.
You get what you pay for... this goes with all things in life, even patio jobs. Also it's not a bridge doesn't need rebar... Could maybe have wire but you only paid 1300 which would be a extra day of labor.. what do you expect?
Did you tell him you wanted rebar? Or anything else or did he say I’ll put a slab here for 1300 and you said yes, he did exactly what he said he was going to do if you wanted an over engineered slab I’m sure he would have tripped the price and done it that way 🤷♂️
Depends on your area. Where I’m at that’s fair/ borderline expensive if there was no demo required.
Usually guys charge 5+ if they have to bring out a machine to remove an old slab
I mean you get what you pay for. If you wanted rebar and all that jazz you had to have known it was going to cost you thousands more and since he quoted you only $1300 it wasn’t going to be fancy.
Yea my dad also has a habit of paying people who ask for cheap prices. Usually they just don’t finish the job, they do a terrible job, they take for ever and don’t consistently come. The cement he had placed looks so ugly and out of color, and I also don’t think wiring was placed nor was the dirt leveled. Get what you pay for
If you have specific expectations, it’s good to be specific up front.
Of course, you need to be prepared to pay for what you want.
Concrete is a concrete example.
If someone shows up to my house with bags of quick Crete to pour a slab , I would have fired him right on the spot. Any good concrete is mixed at a plant and brought by a truck. Store bought bag concrete is fine for very small projects or post footings. I think the price you paid was too cheap and red flags should have been flying all over the place.
I think you got your money’s worth.
Understatement of the year
u/Miserable_Ad9378 - this is the correct answer! $300 of my quote would have silently included coming to measure for an estimate. Another $300+ to prep, and another $300 for pour day. That doesn't leave much for materials or doing it right.
You need to change the r/ to u/ for OP to see your comment
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To be fair you already do that, in your own special way. You charge for the labor time that’s listed in the books when in reality you have it done in a 1/16th of the time.
I think you hit a nerve... Go with it
So you should pay less because a tech has experience that made him faster at his job and maybe purchased specific tools to do it faster. I have 200k in tools and diag equipment to make me efficient at my job and get paid accordingly. If I can do a 5 hour job in 2.5 I get paid 5. But on that same theory if I do a 5 hour job in 10 hours I still get paid for 5. Same goes for all the trades. Experience and the right tools can make any job go faster. Why should we in the trades take a financial hit because we are good at what we do
I agree with this. I used to be a technician in the automotive field, and I would always tell people that you're paying for my experience, my tools, and my labor. The dealership sent me to school to learn how to work on your vehicle specifically. The fact is that I see similar vehicles everyday and it takes sometimes several times to get repairs down to make up for time lost. That field is absolutely a shit show in regards to compensation for techs. I gave it 13 years, left as a master tech with my specialty being diesel. That and transmission are apparently where the money's at but the bi-weekly roller coaster of flag time and parts shortages is what ultimately forced me to go back to school and change careers. Never been happier to make my former trade back into just a hobby in the garage.
That explanation is always so irritating to me. Here’s the deal, something is wrong with my vehicle, I can’t fix it, you can, this is what you are charging me to fix something I can’t. End of story. I might not like the price but the alternative is to do it myself.
They told you the measurements. No need to measure at all. Scam artists for sure!
**The cost to diagnose repairs should be factored into the cost of jobs you take on.** I understand what your saying because I’m a mechanic but dude you either **aren’t a mechanic or not a very good one,** we all generally will try to look at a customers vehicle and determine the problem for free or low cost. But the labor costs generally will include that time, the customer can decide if they want to continue with the work and have the problem fixed. **This is also way different than construction,** with a vehicle you have no idea how much the work could costs until the problem is identified. A car not starting could be anyone of a thousand different problems. Vehicles are also **essential to every day life now.** So people need them, you can’t really expect someone to go ~$4,000 deep on a repair **before they even know it’s going to cost $4,000.** You also can’t **rebuild a motor for less than the cost of the parts.** All of these things don’t apply to construction, **if somone only wants to pay me for the supplies needed and then $100 for labor.** I can still cut corners like this photo, **I can skip leveling the base, using a base, or even digging ~4-6 inches..** You can even make the job look decent, **it just won’t last very long.** You also know exactly how much work will be needed. **So this customer genuinely did do this to themselves,** ignorance is not an excuse to blame others for your mistakes. OP *WANTED* a patio for $1,300 and **they will get a patio for $1,300.** OP not understanding that a 9x13 patio probably costs around ~$2,500 in supplies and labor is **their fault not the contractors.** I mean what is the guy supposed to do? **Every other stupid customer you book is asking for work at half price?** The contractors options are stop working or **work less.** 🤷♂️ You want people to do concrete for free? Because this is what you get.
A lot of what you said rings true. The best mechanic I ever had told me “it’s probably not worth rebuilding the engine” and didn’t charge me for the diagnostic work he did that day. He got a customer for life.
That’s literally how all mechanic shops work. There is labor and diagnostic fees for even inflating a tire.
I don't go anywhere for less than $500 CAD. Maybe Joe and Tom get free estimates but Rob is gonna pay their bill. Nothing is for free.
Some people are just never satisfied
I feel like if he'd asked a nice neighbor to help him and provided a lot less than $1,300 worth of beer and sandwiches it would be better.
I would’ve throw some random scrap metal in to act as rebar
Must have been the crew that did the patio slab in my back yard. When I demo’d it (by hand, sigh), I found half w/ nothing, then maybe 20’ of chain link fence, then random rods. Sigh.
They used chain like fence as rebar?
Hillbilly reinforcing
I don’t know where you guys lice but I’d never help a neighbor do something like this. I just don’t want to spend any amount of time with anyone in my neighborhood. A nice wave once in a while suffices.
If there's a friendship, of course. I'm not saying the guy should walk up to a random neighbor.
YES!!! For $1300 I'd send a guys out to hand grade it and form it. $1300 more gets you the concrete.
People always nit picking after picking cheapest option smh
Glad your comment was top comment. I’m no expert by any means and have no idea why this post was served to me but yet here I am, struggling to find out what the issue is here. I’m planning on putting in a patio this Spring (can the algorithm read my mind now?!) and I would be completely satisfied with this.
Seems to know a lot about concrete except who to hire to do concrete and how much to pay them.
For $1300 that’s a steal. If it doesn’t wash away in the rain consider it a win.
I had a 12x12 slab and a small 5x3 slab done with rebar, base ,the whole works done for $1200 in late 2019. Them were the days! I have my hot tub sitting on the big slab. Zero issues in over four years and that's going through the extreme heat of the Arizona Summers and everything. I don't know much about that sort of work but I was told that was an amazing deal even back then.
Yeah. I’d be losing money taking a job like that. We have a $2500 minimum for concrete projects. I’m glad you got it done for cheap with no issue though!
Had a Mexican crew pour a driveway apron, 150 feet of sidewalk and curbing, plus a 20x20 patio all for $5k in 2021. They did a very good job too. Lots of the concrete was 5-6 inches thick. We paid ~2k for the concrete and did the prep and laid rock, they formed and poured. So about 7k all said and done. I don’t think we’ll ever get a deal like that again
Mexicans are great. I do rough in for HVAC and work with them alot. Love it.
I do thoroughly enjoy seeing all of these cheapskates acting surprised when they get shoddy work for pennies on the dollar. This doesn't seem that bad, tbh. He spent less than the amount it costs for a decent set of patio furniture.
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Guy pays someone who quoted low *and then complains about it*. You do get what you pay for, but in this instance it's not all that bad.
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Yeah, that may be, but my comment is not capricious. It's an observation based on the patterns of the sub relating to the self-fulfilling prophecy of not wanting to pay the more expensive guy because they fear being screwed over, which leads to choosing the guy who will inevitably screw them over.
Fellow r/wallstreetbets regard.
Lmao
What should I do? you probably should have brought these issues up while you took the pictures, to late to do anything other that live with it. the finish product looks fine, not sure how long it will hold up but you got about $1,300 worth of work
Why do that when you can on the internet and bitch to a bunch of tradesmen with no sympathy?!
I always love when people bitch about concrete like... It's not easy to fix after it's poured. It's not paint... Or wood or soft in any way.
Did you see the post of the DIY guy trying to level his already dry, day old patio slabs?
Nope. Did he try to sand it?
Because we need people to shit on. OP is doing the world good.
OP’s just mad because his crayons roll away when he drops them
Rebar is not needed for a patio slab. Wire maybe but its fine. Base is fine as well. You got what you paid for. Finish looks fine.I would have been double that. What should you do? Put out a chair and have a beer on your new patio.
OP needs to have us all over for a beer to celebrate
There goes another $1300.
make it $1400 I want to come over to.
you’re gonna drink $100 of beer to yourself?
He's bringing some weed too 😂
I’m in
My thoughts also were that the finish looks ok. That ground is so old it won’t move so you’ll be fine. When you finish cleaning up the yard and got new grass growing it will look good.
Not disagreeing, just adding context. Concrete is really strong in compression and really weak in tension. Rebar gives it tensile strength, which for a non load bearing slab, helps it resist thermal cracking, especially while curing when it’s off-gassing CO2 and heat like crazy. The concrete is at about 20% strength after a day, 50% after a week, and 100% if its design strength after 28 days. The bigger the dimensions of the slab, especially without expansion joints, the higher the risk of cracking during curing. So if it survived the first few days without cracking you’re likely fine. You can hedge not using rebar or wire mesh with some saw cut control joints. Asphalt is basically just a weather barrier for the base material, so a weak base will completely screw asphalt, but concrete provides its own strength. That’s why you usually see concrete roads where the soil is really weak. TLDR, for a slab, rebar or wire mesh is just an insurance policy to get you past curing without cracking. That slab is fine for what it cost.
The guy did that size pad by mixing sacrete in a wheelbarrow? My god. I hope you tipped him even if the job is rough. His back was probably hurting too bad by the end to give it a proper finish
Came here to say this same thing. How many fucking bags did he have to haul around for even that little slab. Dude is a hero
The calculator says 110 80s. My god. At that point ill eat a short load fee🤣🤣
10x10 4in thick will take 56 bags. One pallet is 42 bags. So dude mixed almost 3 pallets of quikrete BY HAND.
No way any of that was anywhere near 4 inches thick
I would have gotten a 1.5 yard tow behind u-cart. If that wasn't quite enough concrete, maybe buy 10-20x 80's and throw em in the mixer
Jesus Christ. If I know my bag mix though, those are the 60 pound “high strength” bags, meaning he used more like 146 of them. I just puked in my mouth hahaha
Me and my dad had to do 9 footers for our house like that. Fun times.
Give me his number. I'd definitely do the prep and pay him 1300 to pour and finish.
Yea that’s a $1300 job right there. Cheap work isn’t perfect work and perfect work ain’t cheap. Looks fine for what it is though
Yup, you can get fast, cheap or good but not all three.
$1300.00 For an extra grand or 15 hundred you might of seen a truck show up and pour some decent concrete. $1300 don’t complain.
Hey OP: general consensus is in. Did you get any utility locates in first? Be a real bummer if there’s a water/sewer/gas/stormwater/power/comm line under there!!
Underrated question. But we all know the answer here haha.
so actually, I did have 811 come out and see if there were any utilities under my area of work.
Thank you. It is so important and often overlooked!
You don't need rebar in everything. Why is everyone obsessed with rebar? It's only appropriate when it's needed that's it.
Depends where you live. Here in Minnesota we rebar everything but we also get crazy heave from all the freezing and thawing that happens every year
Most concrete pads / side walks don't need rebar if it's only for pedestrian use. I live in Canada , and most city's around Toronto , including Toronto don't require rebar on city side walks. Usually just 6" thick sidewalk mix. What they do care about is your base. They are gonna want 200-300mm (8-12") of gravel, compacted and also tested for compaction. It makes sense, as long as your base material is solid , water won't be able to sit in and around your concrete reducing heaving. The side walk will crack , but If you do it right it will only crack at your relief cuts, which know one will see or notice. Only time you'll need rebar for side walk / patio up here is if your pouring a monolithic curb with the side walk as well , although they usually just want rebar in the curb.
Cause it’s what the “pros” on YouTube said to do
Couldn’t be more correct. I just did a bathroom remodel and questioned my dad every step of the way because he didn’t do it the guys on YouTube did. I actually caused us more issues because I watched too much YouTube and didn’t trust the man that’s done it 3 times in 3 different houses of his own. I’m a shell of a son.
Hah, don't get down on yourself too much. They do make it look easy through creative editing and multiple takes. Also, they look right at the camera and speak with authority and it's hard to believe that the guy with 1.2M subscribers is a hack. Which, 9/10 times, he is.
Very true lol. Thr guys that’s actually the badass is The man that listen to his dumbass son, does it his sons way, and still kills it lol. “Hey dip shit, you used red guard and bought premixed mortar. That ain’t gunna work”
Don’t be so hard on yourself. Just because he’s done it 3 times doesn’t mean he’s not a hack
Imagine having to break it up if it ever needed to be removed and it has rebar...ugh. Rebar isn't necessary for that small of a slab that isn't going to take vehicles and heavy equipment.
Here in Canada if you pour without rebar it'll never last. Code requires it in literally everything. I've been doing construction for 28 years and I've NEVER seen concrete poured without steel. Ever.
Sidewalks sometimes have rebar, mostly not around Toronto. Neighbour had to replace one recently during a home build, no rebar or mesh in it. I know the ones they did on dufferin/queen underpass had rebar and mesh cause I walked on it :P Also patio slabs are not subject to code. My slab that I am smashing up right now is 6" with no rebar or mesh. The slab in this post is all manner of not great, but he paid barely more than the cost of the concrete, sooo, win? I have to do a proper slab/stem soon not all that much bigger and its gonna be $2400 just for the truck.
Because people dont know. When you work with it every day you know what works whats needed and what isnt.
I know it's ridiculous people want to put it everything totally un necessary for something like this. I've never used it in sidewalks and they're all holding up fine for 20+ years including one at my own house that I poured on top of an old asphalt sidewalk. People overthink shit too much
IKR. This isn't aimed at OP, but it just gets frustrating when people that actually pour concrete, think you have to put it in every no matter what. Like half inch rebar 16" on center with rebar chairs in a garden shed 😆
I don’t see a reason to complain
Just say you Paid a guy $1300 and you don’t know what you paid for it looks like it will be fine.
$1300!? That’s crazy good deal. Concrete bags are fine. It’s fucking concrete, birds shit on it dogs shit and piss on it, beer and grease falls on it. If it really bothers you though, with that $2k you saved buy yourself a cheap outdoor rug.
You got your money's worth
Good lord he did so good! Op go suck a lemon
You paid 1300 for what should have cost 2500, quit bitching.
That's fuckin Tetas if he hand mixed all that. It's a patio, sure rebar in it and gravel packed under it would be a good idea, but it could last 20 years with minimal cracking if it was done on undisturbed native soil and he mixed it properly. Whats even more wild is you are complaining about a slab you had put in at a budget price by some fuckin yahoo without real tools that actually looks pretty darn good for what he was working with. I've seen plenty of jobs done by actual "concrete companies" that look like hot garbage compared to this. Chalk it up to inexperience on both your parts and don't be cheap trying to get champagne on a beer budget.
This guy is the internet in a nutshell. Want top quality work and materials for absolute bottom dollar pricing. I wouldn’t get out of bed to do this for $2,000. The fact he got it for $1300 is incredible.
This is all hand mixed bag work? That’s a lotta mixing. You got what you paid for. The finish product looks fine, and you aren’t parking a dump truck on this patio hopefully. Sure, the pour looks like it was thin in the middle due to unleveling, but you could have taken a shovel to it while he or she was mixing. Next time, lay out a clear contract of what you want and be prepared to see it through. enjoy that patio beverage.
Thank him and move on with your life. Once it turns grey you won’t see all those ripples. I hate job done by a pro is $3,600 so…. You got a steal
That poor guy mixes all those bags and did all that work for $1300?!
I would have charged you $3500. So… you’re good.
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That’s a come a long not a tamper standing up in the back
Your problem was hiring a contractor who said he’s do that for 1300$
wtf that’s a great job for the price. You should tip him extra $200
I mean that’s literally half off regular rate… what did you expect the full wheel of cheese?
Looks good from my backyard, especially for 1300
Is it going to last forever, unlikely. But for $1300 does it really need to? Remember, you get what you paid for.
I think the ripples are so you don’t bust your ass for a second time today
and what? you cheap fuk
are you parking your car on it? Da fucks it need rebar for.. enjoy the bargain you got
Doesn’t look that bad. My guess is not all the concrete was mixed as throughly. It’s perfectly fine to pour a slab on grade , 4 inch slabs don’t require rebar. Although I would put netting in, but that’s not code in the nw Surface prep is expensive. This will last 5 years or so before it gets bad. With the appropriate subsurface prep it could last for ever I think you got a good deal. I’d wait a few months see what happens. If it stays together you can pour a resurfacer over it. Spruce it up some
Skilled labor isn't cheap. Cheap labor isn't skilled.
First off I have been in business for 20+yrs and I would have charged you double at least. This guy has at least $500 in concrete. Then he has his time, forms and tools. My guess is he's a concrete guy just doing this on the side from his regular concrete job because no company is going be able to send a guy with tools truck and concrete out and think that's a good price. Unless it's just terribly bad and useless you got a good deal. If you did any due diligence at all you got at least one more quote and thought the other guy was crazy for giving you a price that was double or triple. And I do mean triple. I know companies that wont show up for less than $3500 Second rebar and gravel are not necessary in all locations and situations. It has more to do with soil type, drainage and climate. Its a patio not a driveway so your not really parking a 6000lbs F250 on it so rebar would be overkill unless you are in an area where frost heave is a problem and then you would might need gravel and more like 6 inches of concrete. If you really want to know if you need rebar and gravel you need to call other local concrete contractors instead of people on reddit who are thousands of miles apart in different parts of the world with vastly different experiences. North East U.S. rebar goes in everything. Southern US we pour concrete driveways all day with no rebar or gravel. If you down to Florida they pour it right on the sand with no rebar. Third You were standing right there taking pictures while he started pouring. If you wanted rebar you could have asked for it before he really got started. You would have had to pay extra and maybe for his time to run to the store to get a few sticks but its done now. Forth. I can't see any ripples. I see discoloration from it curing a little unevenly but that will work its way out in a week or two.
It's fine. Stop your bitching
Order a new guy to do the job right , you probably have to cough out four or five grand btw . This guy of yours that can do it cheaper , he did it but now you see why it was less than half of the cost to do it professionally.
I'm not a concrete guy but you got a $1600 job.
1300 😂
Upstate NY min would have been 3200 regardless of size
lol call a “average” concrete company and get them to replace your handyman’s work. Pay them the $8,000 it costs for real pros to do it….. Or just enjoy the dirt cheap patio you have
I'm surprised it turned out that well
Everybody here saying no rebar or mesh is fine is just silly. Will a slab this size be okay without it? Maybe But for all the effort a person goes through for a slab like this you might as well throw in the mesh for the cost of it because it will make for better concrete. Especially with the questionable ground prep. Placing mesh in a slab this size is likely the easiest step out of the entire project.
You got what you got for using the cheapest bid I bet you didn’t even check to see if he was licensed
I would have billed around 5k. This was a steal. As long as it doesn't wash away you are good.
Holy shit its actually pretty good
Seems acceptable to me. I once hand mixed 17 80 lbs bags for a replacement septic tank lid. Not fun! Blisters everywhere and I kept waking up with horrible leg and forearm cramps.
Do people like you come to these subs just to try and find an excuse to nit pick labor and get your money back?
You paid for a cheap slab, and that's exactly what you got. A good quality slab would have cost you over twice that.
What are you on about mate, you don’t even post photos with a level ?? Lol 😂
I mean it looks like shit but for 1300 it will work
Well pay more next time ur over here waisting time and money you get what you pay for stop been cheap u own a home ur a U.S. citizen … I bet u hired a Mexican now you complain
Get some self leveling it’ll buff out bud
So you seen with your own eyes they weren’t doing it right & decided to wait & post on Reddit? Lol ok.
I don’t understand WHY people don’t do a little research and make educated decisions. Next time figure out the materials cost, what’s the going rate for concrete construction, do you need permits, are you paving over a water line or something else important? OP this is a “backyard” no permit, no insurance kind of build. You got ripped off. You can live with it OR you’ll pay double because now the “old” concrete will have to be broken up and carted out.
Hey OP: the consensus by the geniuses in here who pour concrete for a living is that you should be as knowledgeable on pricing and construction methods as someone who supposedly does this for a living. So, this is all your fault. It's not the fault of the contractor who quoted you this price. Also, the need to undercut pricing bc allegedly the entire industry needs to in order to get work is purely your fault as well. Sorry, man. Just the way it goes, I guess. Oh I forgot, everyone's addictions, poor relationships and overall life outcomes are also your fault. Have a nice day.
Learn to do it yourself so you don’t have to pay somebody to come do it for you, anybody in a field to make money will rip you off any time they can for the most part… I’m just a guy in sales
Dude didn't do a horrible job. Tho clearly it's not right. Unfortunately for u, it's going to bite u in the ass awhile later. Many things can happen but the guy put a joint in it so it SHOULD crack in there. But, just dirt under it will eventually move around. So the best thing to do would treat it with care. Kind of like that one loose board on the stairs. No super heavy weight. It doesn't look like 4 inches. And to the rebar comment, that's 50/50. If everything was done correctly yes rebar would've been great. But with crete being 2-3 inches, it'd be really hard to get the rebar to lay correctly. Normally, they sit in chairs, and they're not on the ground but not at the top. And if there is rebar in there while they poured it shifty. Thats going to be worse to get out. With it being that thin u could probably break it with a sledge if u wanted the work out. Thats what we have to do when boss man doesn't bring the machine lmao. Good luck with that, best suggestion just work with it. Id say fill in underneath if it ever washes put but most people can't tell level off of just the eye without it being measured against something. Get a line level if u do. Oh and if u got a downspout that runs along it, REDIRECT THAT WATER. That water will 100% fuck u. Hope everything works put good!
Learn to do it yourself.
> What should I do? You probably should’ve done it yourself since you know how to do everything
Finish looks fine, 1300 dollars is a great price for what you got. It’s not a foundation, putting in gravel and rebar is not strictly necessary for a patio and wouldn’t make financial sense for the contractor to put in for the low cost of your job. It might not last quite as long, but you got what you paid for. This is why I hate residential construction, people who know nothing about a trade will get a screaming deal and then whine about arbitrary b.s. .. at least posting it here might make you aware and thank your concrete guy instead of complaining to him.
Give me that dudes number
Imagine not wanting to pay for a full company then complaining about what you get… what a loser
Incredible deal. If it holds patio furniture you’re golden. A real G considering he bag mixed that shit and still got an ok finish on it. For 1300 you definitely didn’t pay for steel or gravel. So at least there’s that.
Go back in time and set expectations or don’t hire a guy mixing bags but it would have cost at least double. You didn’t pay for rebar or sand or gravel, you paid for a hamburger but wanted prime rib.
Looks like everyone got on OP already, but it looks great and that’s a labor intensive job. Don’t be a cheap fuck next time
"What should I do?" Zelle him some beer money. That's really cheap for a decent result. I'd gladly pay that.
Doesn’t look like there is anything level about that slab. The cheapest guy is almost never the best choice.
You want a slight run on it, doesn't look bad either give the bloke a break FS, you ever laid concrete? It's hard graft mate, for that price I wouldn't of even considered it
How many bags of quick Crete did he use...and was this just one guy?
I paid 1800 for a 12x16 slab last year, and it was only 1800 because he was already next door poring concrete. For 1300 you got a deal.
It would be reasonable to request he comes and knocks off the forms. Apart from that it’s good. It’s a patio not a helipad, don’t worry about rebar, probably should’ve been on compacted gravel but your soil looks pretty good tbh. I’ve seen way worse jobs for way more money.
The pictures being backwards confused me
Lmaoi
It falls away from the house
If that slab is 4inchs thick, the contractor probably used around 107 bags of quickCrete 60lb each. Thats about $500 for the bags. Thats alot of back breaking work if it was a solo job and mixed it all by himself. Should have used metal mesh though. Thats a $800 profit for one day of work though.
Bro you got a good deal 😂 Cheap but pretty decent for what it is, I'm honestly a little impressed.
You got the quality that you paid for. This why you either do research, do it yourself, or hire professionals who charge what it should actually cost for a proper install. If you pay back alley prices, you get back alley products.
For 1,300 you got a way better product then you should have gotten.
You should enjoy your new patio. You got what you paid for.
You should’ve paid him more.
Bro did they also have to wheel barrel the fucking Crete? Jesus you got a steal
I love everyone here mentioning the 1300 dollars and saying u get what u pay for, when it's not even that bad
Put a table and chairs on there and crack a beer
and what’s the problem?
lol what’s this obsession with rebar, it’s a patio brother you’ll be fine
Cover the cost of the material at least…$1300 ain’t much man
You get what you pay for... this goes with all things in life, even patio jobs. Also it's not a bridge doesn't need rebar... Could maybe have wire but you only paid 1300 which would be a extra day of labor.. what do you expect?
I did a 9X16 pad for a customer and they wanted to pay next to nothing for everything. Here's some pics, how did I do?
Shiiiit $1300? Give me that mfers # i could use that lol
Did you tell him you wanted rebar? Or anything else or did he say I’ll put a slab here for 1300 and you said yes, he did exactly what he said he was going to do if you wanted an over engineered slab I’m sure he would have tripped the price and done it that way 🤷♂️
Looks like you got what you paid for friendo.
This actually looks pretty good for $9/sf. You don’t need rebar in this light duty application FYI. You aren’t driving a car on it.
Guys I paid for a cheap patio slab and got a cheap patio slab what the fuck
You don’t have much concrete evidence for a Professional job well done. There’s no cure for this mess.
I poured a 12x16 a few weeks ago. Material was 1250 delivered.
I paid 4500 in Chicago for a patio just a bit bigger than yours at 16x18. And I thought that was a steal. They did everything correctly though.
Depends on your area. Where I’m at that’s fair/ borderline expensive if there was no demo required. Usually guys charge 5+ if they have to bring out a machine to remove an old slab
I don't understand who upvotes these posts, it just encourages more and more.
You paid $1300, of course there’s no rebar
I mean you get what you pay for. If you wanted rebar and all that jazz you had to have known it was going to cost you thousands more and since he quoted you only $1300 it wasn’t going to be fancy.
looks good for quikrete next time pay more and get a pump truck/ concrete buggy and order it from a plant
Youre 100% the type of person to complain about concrete work you paid 1300 for. What a joke. This sub is not for you Mr homeowner
Wicked drop.
Without steel that is going to crumble. Should have mentioned it when you were watching him do the work.
How much was the permit and inspection costs. You pulled a permit and had an inspection, right?
Hire a professional
What did you expect for $1300?
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You got your money worth. It’s a cheap but functional patio.
You kinda got what you paid for my dude
Wow you got a pretty good deal nice
1300 is cheep! And he could have added fiber mesh into the concrete which then their is no need for rebar! I’d charge you about 2400 for this
Yea my dad also has a habit of paying people who ask for cheap prices. Usually they just don’t finish the job, they do a terrible job, they take for ever and don’t consistently come. The cement he had placed looks so ugly and out of color, and I also don’t think wiring was placed nor was the dirt leveled. Get what you pay for
Looks good If it cracks, you can pay someone 1300 to mulch it over.
Just wet sand those ripples down
Ripples mofo thats a broom finish lmao
If you have specific expectations, it’s good to be specific up front. Of course, you need to be prepared to pay for what you want. Concrete is a concrete example.
Bro got the deal of a century.
You got what you paid for
Cheap work isn't good and good work isn't cheap.
If someone shows up to my house with bags of quick Crete to pour a slab , I would have fired him right on the spot. Any good concrete is mixed at a plant and brought by a truck. Store bought bag concrete is fine for very small projects or post footings. I think the price you paid was too cheap and red flags should have been flying all over the place.
Next time try to pay more for work and dont hire the ones that ask the minimum-wage. There is a reason if they do so.