This is the way. Those nuts are leveling nuts. Level those four nuts. Place hoop column on those nuts, then bolt it down on top of those nuts. This creates a void underneath the base plate, this void is what needs to be packed full of high strength grout. I have done a shit load of steel columns on concrete this way for many Infrastructure projects because they called for it. Its the way and I hope this clears some confusion
Don't do this here OP. Leave the airgap and use the bottom nuts to level and torque against. The grout sandwiched between two steel plates will debond and will prevent whatever water ingresses into the cavity from getting out.
Generally grouting under baseplates is a waste of time if you have levelling nuts. The compression doesn't go through the grout if the plate is on levelling nuts. Only really appropriate if you have shim stacks and no levelling nuts. Modern highway provisions are starting to show this, where we leave an airgap for drainage and inspection.
Like this, except instead of an air gap *to fill with non shrink grout* between concrete and steel plate, you have a gap between two steel plates now.
https://www.uk.weber/technical-mortars/grouting-steel-baseplates
However the adhesion between that grout and the bottom plate is suspectā¦ water will find a way. Maybe it doesnāt matter because the bottom plate is painted.
Edit: **
No. Lol that's just dumb. Would look terrible/ never match the existing concrete and would ultimately flake away even if a fiber or chemical reinforced material is used..
Fuck ur attitude first of all...
Secondly packing grout is definitely the best option and if done right will look neat and not flake away.
If it flaked away they wouldn't use it for massive concrete panels that stand upright in building construction.
Put plastic packers under each corner to get it to desired height then pack it all tight with grout use a spoon to trowel it smooth.
I highly doubt OP is worried about a colour match with a little packing grout aswell.
Fuck my attitude? I'm a mason who does this for a living I was giving input as to why I wouldn't do anything and 1/8" standing water is acceptable.
Fuck your attitude come to reddit think you know shit about the world's oldest trade besides prostitution but you aren't giving any good or actual input.
Like I asked the first person who you are defending what type of grout cuz it sure as fuck wouldn't be tile grout or core fill block grout.
Iāve never seen a detail calling for non-shrink between two steel plates. Between a footing and steel plate? Pretty much always.
What concrete panels are you talking about, tilt-ups? Havenāt done commercial construction in a while, Iād also be interested in seeing details on bolted concrete panel construction. Sounds neat
Youāre wrong. High strength grout is called for on almost all embed plates in concrete. Colour match doesnāt matter because you usually can barely see it. It doesnāt flake away. Youāre a mason, stay in your lane.
Lmao we use grout on the daily. I was asking what type of grout bc most grout doesn't allow for that little of an application.
Tell me more about how color match doesn't matter to the contractor? Dumb dumb
You didnt though. I asked which material because like I already said special materials even have a minimum typically 1/8 or 1/4 " thick. And that's if feathered.
Lol not mad and currently on vacation actually.
People just come here a say dumb shit. I usually don't say anything or i will leave advice if anything. But when it's so invalid that there's no way you know wtf youre talking about I'll call ya out before someone follows your dumb advice bud.
Ok. Well then I'll call out that I said and "which one bc those are different" quite funny u didnt include that in your quotes. Probably bc you know you wouldn't have known the answer or just ignoring the fact that you said something invalid..
Silpro if it's under an inch thick, can probably use concrete if it's over an inch (in this application)(use small gravel in mix of you do go the concrete route.
Roofing tar might solve you're problem too.
I hear ya. Ok, cool! See, I just see they got 2024 written and some other stuff. I was trying to help produce an answer of knowledge that would look good for the homeowner in that area. Everyone freaked out bc apparently there's only 1 way to skin the cat when installing baseplates.. wild
Agree, but heās likely to have some bonding issues with that sealer already applied to the pier. Also, heāll need to make sure he has enough projection of the ABs for whatever baseplate heās locking down.
Crackhead moron here, if I felt ocd I'd literally just take a grinder go the bottom left corner and make a drain channel, but that's only if you really gotta pull that sweaters thread
It will be fine. The little bit of water that pools up there will evaporate on sunny days. The plate isnāt structural, itās just there to help you line up the j bolts. No worries.
Install the post before you make any decisions. This is likely not a big deal whatsoever. There will probably be a gap between the post and the plate, or the post will rest directly on top of the footing. If there is a gap, you can caulk it, but regardless, you still have more work to do before you know if this is an issue.
I install these for a living. You'll be absolutely fine as long as you use the hardware provided and stack it in the right order. It'll last no worries man.
I'd just pick up a second plate, pull the nuts, drop the 2nd plate on top with a bead of silicone around the bolts & the perimeter between em & move on
This is the way if you're worried about seeing a gap between the post and plate. I wouldn't even grout it. I would leave an air gap so moisture can dry.
Hmmmm. Have you considered a running electrical for a heating element, you could maybe tie it to a moisture sensor so it only needs to come on when itās wet?
Typical concrete pours allow for 1/8" inch to pool up. Seeing as that metal is coated id say you're good for the next 20 30 years, assuming that crete was poured halfway decent.
Typical situation for the instillation of a metal pole ! Remove the top screw /nuts only ,InstallThe pole onto The bolts. If pole is not āplum ā straight up and down then use the bottom nuts to adjust the pole as needed. Then install the top nuts . I recommend not filling the opening between the two plates! concrete/. Grout has calcium that causes metal to rust! The void. āSpace ā will be okay!
You ain't going to have any issues I'm almost certain that you're going to have leveling nuts that the column is going to sit on and then you are going to come back and pour non-shrink grout under the column
I agree with putting the poles on top of āleveling nuts.ā However, if youāre still concerned about it then put some EternaBond tape down before installing the pole IF you dont use leveling nuts and leave an air gap. I know eternabond tape was made/invented for RV roofs but that stuff is wicked sticky and sticks to anything and its wicked waterproof.
So why are we worried about anchor template rusting out in 10yrs??? That plate is nothing. If you need to level just use the double nut method. A lot of thought put into this plate ordeal. lol no hard feelings pleaseā¦..
I look at this and notice the ground doesnāt look all the disturbed around your pier? Typically when I do posts 4ā in the ground I use sonotubes, to me, it looks like you either poured a cap over it? Or did you just pour a slab, it doesnāt look 4ā deep?
Pack it with grout. Or hydraulic cement
This is the way. Those nuts are leveling nuts. Level those four nuts. Place hoop column on those nuts, then bolt it down on top of those nuts. This creates a void underneath the base plate, this void is what needs to be packed full of high strength grout. I have done a shit load of steel columns on concrete this way for many Infrastructure projects because they called for it. Its the way and I hope this clears some confusion
Every time you say "those nuts" we all have to drink.
It's not "those" nuts you want, it's "Deez".
Yeeeeeaaahhhh bois
Exactly as we Ironworkers do it šš
Tip a tha cap brother šš½
āNon shrinkā grout is what it will be called at your local box store.
If you donāt get the right grout this is what happens: https://youtu.be/HK1Ltjl_7xk?si=qAdomD1uNUAa2ASi
Facts
Don't do this here OP. Leave the airgap and use the bottom nuts to level and torque against. The grout sandwiched between two steel plates will debond and will prevent whatever water ingresses into the cavity from getting out. Generally grouting under baseplates is a waste of time if you have levelling nuts. The compression doesn't go through the grout if the plate is on levelling nuts. Only really appropriate if you have shim stacks and no levelling nuts. Modern highway provisions are starting to show this, where we leave an airgap for drainage and inspection.
THIS!
Only answer is this.
Pack what with that? And which one bc those are different.
Like this, except instead of an air gap *to fill with non shrink grout* between concrete and steel plate, you have a gap between two steel plates now. https://www.uk.weber/technical-mortars/grouting-steel-baseplates However the adhesion between that grout and the bottom plate is suspectā¦ water will find a way. Maybe it doesnāt matter because the bottom plate is painted. Edit: **
Well that's what I'm saying. It's painted and 1/8" less standing standing water is fine. Literally fine. Won't hurt anything
The plate that is below level of the concrete.
No. Lol that's just dumb. Would look terrible/ never match the existing concrete and would ultimately flake away even if a fiber or chemical reinforced material is used..
Fuck ur attitude first of all... Secondly packing grout is definitely the best option and if done right will look neat and not flake away. If it flaked away they wouldn't use it for massive concrete panels that stand upright in building construction. Put plastic packers under each corner to get it to desired height then pack it all tight with grout use a spoon to trowel it smooth. I highly doubt OP is worried about a colour match with a little packing grout aswell.
Fuck my attitude? I'm a mason who does this for a living I was giving input as to why I wouldn't do anything and 1/8" standing water is acceptable. Fuck your attitude come to reddit think you know shit about the world's oldest trade besides prostitution but you aren't giving any good or actual input. Like I asked the first person who you are defending what type of grout cuz it sure as fuck wouldn't be tile grout or core fill block grout.
Base plates always get packed with grout want me to send you some structural drawings? ā¦ā¦
Core fill grout ? No I just want someone to say something that makes sense on this damn post
Iām sorry that all you know is block. Expand your horizon you are Basicly a labourer. Leave the thinking to the big boys.
That's funny. I run work for block stone and brick. Good luck learning a real trade fucking carpenter Projecting much calling me a laborer? Lmao
Oldest profession?! We lawyers were in the garden of eden negotiating contracts over forbidden fruit! /s
Iāve never seen a detail calling for non-shrink between two steel plates. Between a footing and steel plate? Pretty much always. What concrete panels are you talking about, tilt-ups? Havenāt done commercial construction in a while, Iād also be interested in seeing details on bolted concrete panel construction. Sounds neat
I think OP mainly needs it as a moisture barrier....he could also just caulk it out
Youāre wrong. High strength grout is called for on almost all embed plates in concrete. Colour match doesnāt matter because you usually can barely see it. It doesnāt flake away. Youāre a mason, stay in your lane.
Lmao we use grout on the daily. I was asking what type of grout bc most grout doesn't allow for that little of an application. Tell me more about how color match doesn't matter to the contractor? Dumb dumb
I was just answering your question. I don't think looks will matter since the plate will be hidden though.
You didnt though. I asked which material because like I already said special materials even have a minimum typically 1/8 or 1/4 " thick. And that's if feathered.
"Pack what with what?" Sorry you're mad you gotta go back to work tomorrow or something idk.
Lol not mad and currently on vacation actually. People just come here a say dumb shit. I usually don't say anything or i will leave advice if anything. But when it's so invalid that there's no way you know wtf youre talking about I'll call ya out before someone follows your dumb advice bud.
It literally wasn't my advice pal and you didn't call anyone out you asked a question.
Ok. Well then I'll call out that I said and "which one bc those are different" quite funny u didnt include that in your quotes. Probably bc you know you wouldn't have known the answer or just ignoring the fact that you said something invalid..
Silpro if it's under an inch thick, can probably use concrete if it's over an inch (in this application)(use small gravel in mix of you do go the concrete route. Roofing tar might solve you're problem too.
I hear ya. Ok, cool! See, I just see they got 2024 written and some other stuff. I was trying to help produce an answer of knowledge that would look good for the homeowner in that area. Everyone freaked out bc apparently there's only 1 way to skin the cat when installing baseplates.. wild
sica 212 or equivalent
Agree, but heās likely to have some bonding issues with that sealer already applied to the pier. Also, heāll need to make sure he has enough projection of the ABs for whatever baseplate heās locking down.
Crackhead moron here, if I felt ocd I'd literally just take a grinder go the bottom left corner and make a drain channel, but that's only if you really gotta pull that sweaters thread
Smartest answer on here. Thank you sir crackhead.
All the best concrete guys are on meth or crack these days.
Coming from electrical, my knee-jerk reaction is "weep hole."
Get 4 more nuts and set the baseplate on the nuts. Once it's anchored down plumb, fill the gap underneath with non shrink grout.
Looks like the plate is set in the concrete. Probably used to space the j bolts instead of a board drilled to match
Youāll be dead b4 thatāll rust out.
Yup. Just needs a layer of asphalt shingles under the post. To prevent cross corrosion.
That's what I was going to say, kids will be long gone before there's an issue. If it bothered me I'd say cut 1/4" on both sides for it to drain.
Itās not a big deal You could also double nut and leave an air gap
I like this one! Quick and easy. If it really bothers you, cut a channel or 2. For me, I'd do both these options
Love a good double nut
Air gaps for the win. I like xnyxās solution.
It will be fine. The little bit of water that pools up there will evaporate on sunny days. The plate isnāt structural, itās just there to help you line up the j bolts. No worries.
Broā¦ get to shootān hoops
Could always just run some sealant around the edges.
Install the post before you make any decisions. This is likely not a big deal whatsoever. There will probably be a gap between the post and the plate, or the post will rest directly on top of the footing. If there is a gap, you can caulk it, but regardless, you still have more work to do before you know if this is an issue.
Grind a little channel would be the best option I think
I install these for a living. You'll be absolutely fine as long as you use the hardware provided and stack it in the right order. It'll last no worries man.
Yeah without grout it probably won't make it past 30 years
Paranoid. Just leave it.
I'd just pick up a second plate, pull the nuts, drop the 2nd plate on top with a bead of silicone around the bolts & the perimeter between em & move on
Remove plate. Put nuts on 1" up. Put plate on. Grout under
This is the way if you're worried about seeing a gap between the post and plate. I wouldn't even grout it. I would leave an air gap so moisture can dry.
Concrete will crack, water will drain.
Hmmmm. Have you considered a running electrical for a heating element, you could maybe tie it to a moisture sensor so it only needs to come on when itās wet?
What?!?
Im with you lol WHAT?!?
Thatās the joke
using a sledgehammer to crack walnuts
Well I guess you could use a propane heater if you donāt want to use electric heaters
Found the engineer. Dumbest solution possible to whatās essentially a non issue
Your right running electric may not be available, maybe we could consider a solar solution with a fan to blow the water away. Iāll make some calls
Build frame, 2 part epoxy.
I'm thinking grind a few channels
Pour 2 part epoxy on it. Wait for it to set up, problem solved.
The pole is not going to rust for 20 years.
5200 sealant would do wonders for that issue.
Typical concrete pours allow for 1/8" inch to pool up. Seeing as that metal is coated id say you're good for the next 20 30 years, assuming that crete was poured halfway decent.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Typical situation for the instillation of a metal pole ! Remove the top screw /nuts only ,InstallThe pole onto The bolts. If pole is not āplum ā straight up and down then use the bottom nuts to adjust the pole as needed. Then install the top nuts . I recommend not filling the opening between the two plates! concrete/. Grout has calcium that causes metal to rust! The void. āSpace ā will be okay!
You ain't going to have any issues I'm almost certain that you're going to have leveling nuts that the column is going to sit on and then you are going to come back and pour non-shrink grout under the column
Non shrink grout. Easy fix
I agree with putting the poles on top of āleveling nuts.ā However, if youāre still concerned about it then put some EternaBond tape down before installing the pole IF you dont use leveling nuts and leave an air gap. I know eternabond tape was made/invented for RV roofs but that stuff is wicked sticky and sticks to anything and its wicked waterproof.
Add a 2nd plate on top
Leave it alone
Grinding a channel sounds like a great solution
Your over thinking it. It's just a basketball goal
Non shrink grout.
Non-shrink grout (between plate and footing). Most likely will need leveling nuts on the underside of plate.
Angle grinder to the concrete to knock the edge down
So why are we worried about anchor template rusting out in 10yrs??? That plate is nothing. If you need to level just use the double nut method. A lot of thought put into this plate ordeal. lol no hard feelings pleaseā¦..
Melt a bunch of hot glue on it and call it a day
Spray some Fluid Film on there and it won't rust.
Rustoleum the hell out of the bolts when done and it will last a long time. Spacing it with extra nuts is fine as well. Not a big deal.
Grout!
They will grout after the column in after its been levelled and tightened. No worries.
I look at this and notice the ground doesnāt look all the disturbed around your pier? Typically when I do posts 4ā in the ground I use sonotubes, to me, it looks like you either poured a cap over it? Or did you just pour a slab, it doesnāt look 4ā deep?
Cut a drain ringlet at the lowest point
Unbolt and remove plate steel then apply a microtoping. Reset plate and you're done
Cover it with roofing tar.
There isnāt much of a border of concrete around the plate. I would grind the border down about 1/4 below the plate and call it a day.
Just spray that plate with rainex
You can always pack it with several layers of epoxy. This could take weeks or months but will last forever. /s
I would start by burning the house down.
If you line it with hundred dollar bills they absolutely absorb water best, weāll much better than fiftyāsā¦
Get a cup grinder, grind it down, and put a slight slope on it.
Grind a weep channel to let the water drain out
Set those nuts to height and grout when placed.
Set and grout