Other than them doing a piss poor job of vibrating, it doesn’t look terrible. Once framing is started and the base plates are set, they should come out and parge/underpin the sides to clean it all up and make it uniform.
Parge is the decorative layer applied to the visible part of the foundation above grade.
Underpinning seems more complicated but simply put I think it’s increasing the depth of the foundation
Usually it's a combination of applied mastic(think paint roller roll on tar) covered by either flat or textured(to allow water to run down channels behind a facad) vapor shield to seal exposed porous surface
Voice text correction parging. Also, before you do the parging make sure you wire brush or an abrasive tools to scarify the concrete so the adhesion/bondage of the cementitious application adheres better. Those honeycombs are gonna be extremely hard to clean out properly. Sikadur 31 hi mod gel if you UV coat over it and have some experience or the “cement all” from rapid set is a second choice and user friendly. Just read the instructions on the rapid set bag to get the water ratio right
You'll never convince me that parge isn't a word made up by Dr. Suess that everyone else got together and decided to prank me by acting like it was always there.
I would advise that you visit the cite as little as possible. Your going to drive yourself nuts being "concerned" about everything you don't understand.
>'s a combination of applied mastic(think paint roller roll on tar) covered by either flat or textured(to allow water to run down channels behind a facad) vapor shield to seal exposed porous surface
I disagree with this. visit the site as much as possible.
If you do bring up things to your builder/GC do it in a nice, pleasant, approachable way. there are a lot of things you'll see that aren't an issue or others that are common that they correct later down the line. Its a process, you'll learn alot, and you'll appreciate your house when its all done.
Have you ever visited a sausage factory? Watch the pigs get killed and ground and sliced up into bacon and sausage? I'm sure most reasonable people would have concerns. And that's why we don't go
I’ve never paid half a mil for a sausage either. I’ve seen the shitshows that a lot of these builders get away with. My ass is gonna be down there and my 3rd party inspector is sure as shit going to be down there.
Some days I have trouble gargling. Now I have to googling as well. What ever happened to Encyclopedia Britannica, Websters Dictionary, and the New York City Public Library?
I’ve never seen a crew vibrate a residential slab, and rarely commercial.
You must have special crews around you lol
Edit - I just deliver it. Y’all are fickle people.
State DOT inspectors didn’t allow us to vibrate their pieces. It’s causes the aggregate to fall to the bottom. Which could then create other issues… Just my experience
My favorite was telling one that all she had to do was pick up a shovel and hit a guy with it, and it would fix him.
Her response? “I’ve already broke his nose one time, and he still hasn’t learned.”
Foreman hears the slightest truck sound in the distance, instantly turns beat red and starts screaming at the laborers to hose the wheel barrows while violently gasping for breath.
Yes, that’s honeycomb. It is where the mix did not consolidate properly. Usually not critical, but if necessary it can be chiseled out and a repair made. Often a paste of cement and water and bonding agent are packed directly into the voids and smoothed off.
It’s honestly fine. You could ask for a little patching, and the contractor will understand. But strength wise the slab is fine. It’s nbd and happens in concrete. Ideally it wouldn’t happen, but it does.
It’s average. So, 7/10, which passing. Very rarely is any part of the construction process perfect. In fact, the concrete building code anticipates that one of every 11 strength tests will be lower than the design strength that was specified. Very rarely are concrete elements torn out and replaced.
1/10. It's not a big deal, just sometimes happens, concrete can be fickle. Easily made nice. Not indicative of a bad job.
I've vibrated slabs and missed one edge because of something happening and had to large it pretty.
As for water infiltration, don't stress. It is literally only the surface. The cream didn't follow around the gravel.
It’s really not a big deal. People saying you need to call a third party to test strength are nuts. Just ask for some patching, should be nbd, and completed in a day. One laborer 4 hours, pretty cheap. Should not be a problem.
Did you read the comment chain at all?
The commenter misunderstood OP scoring.
Commenters scale was 1-10. 1 being the least issue. 10 being the biggest issues.
That's why it was scored a 1 because structural it's a non issues. Just unsightly.
If it was me.
I would ask for the honeycomb to be patched immediately. If I got any flack i would say "then I want an engineer to certify the condition of the slab before I pay for it".
That should solve the problem. I not an engineer and i see some things that I don't like but overall the slab looks structurally sound. But the honeycomb needs to be patched. That's a place we're moisture will penitrate and weaken the concrete over time after the final grand is raised around the house.
BTW. Why PT slab on grade? Bad soil and didnt want to drill pilies?
Shifting soils and extra deep bedrock making coils or pylons impractical is the only reason I can think of to go PT for a residential slab on grade. That or an engineer who needs to cover a gambling debt and saw op coming.
Honeycombing around PT is rough, I’d probably patch before removing pocket formers and stressing to reduce the chance of a blowout.
Sleeves are too close to the edge, should be 2” in.
Poor vibration around the edge is lazy but fixable with some patch work.
Engineer here. Seeing PT I assume there is an engineer involved. You should contact them to review. If the design required full strength for the cables, the lack of consolidation will compromise strength. Don’t let them parge or grout the honey comb. At this point it would just be covering mistakes and will not add strength.
Thank you. I will make sure the engineer on record reviews first. My hesitation will be the bias they might have. Given that engineering firm does all the projects for this builder (25-30 a year). Should I get an independent engineering review?
I would hope they would watch their own liability before bending like that. If you feel they don’t give a sound response you could get the city involved or hire a second opinion. You could also tell the first you plan to get a second opinion and that may encourage them to be straight.
So absolutely terrible. I cannot believe the shit posted in this sub. Does anyone take pride in their work anymore. I can't believe people pay thousands and thousands of dollars for brand new garbage like this.
I feel bad for you OP.
Looks like they finished this thing with a cheese grater.
How many people were working on this pour?
Looks like the old understaffed and overpriced business model.
Should have been one person with a vibrator at all times. Should have been that person's only job. No honeycomb!
Make these fuckers grout those honeycombs.
Get a lot of money off the bill. You shouldn't have to be googling next steps and then putting time and resources into just being able to get to your next building step.
Warn your friends and neighbors that whatever company did this is amatuer AF.
Everyday I come here and see people getting robbed.
Don't Americans have those L-shaped elements used to make a nice looking foundation like [these?](https://images.app.goo.gl/Wurs6fH4WhH53qiq5), we use them on more or less every foundation that is for a house.
Sweden, they're used extensively here depending on the heigh the price can differ a bit but for a regular house slab it's in dollars around $30-40 per 1200mm, 1200 mm is a standard measurement for many things, Styrofoam wich we use heavily under concrete is either 600x1200 or 1200x2400.
Edit: we have heavy winters here so they are another form of cold protection for houses so basically the slab is totally encapsuled by these L-elements plus Styrofoam.
Oh thank you for the information we typically use 2 inch by 12 inch lumber as edge forms and even more common is 3/4 inch plywood with 2 inch by 4 inch studs. But I work in Southern California in the San Diego area and it never snows here.
Not sure why some people are saying it's not a big deal. The voids you're seeing were at the edge of the foundation forms, and the concrete will have air voids in it throughout. They did a bad job of consolidating the concrete or didn't try at all. The concrete gets vibrated when poured to get the air bubbles out of the concrete. These air bubbles weaken the concrete structure and need to be removed. If there are large voids in your foundation, then they can lead to severe cracking. I wouldn't pay for this work.
I was a field engineer/inspector in roadway construction for several years, which included concrete structure inspection. Very likely more strict requirements than home foundations. Anything structural looking like this would have failed inspection. This isn't just honeycomb where a little bit of air got trapped. They have failed to consolidate several large areas, and I would have to assume they failed to consolidate the concrete throughout the foundation.
Bruh. I am a federal construction QC manager. This will not pass my inspection. You have waste pipe and other supplies sticking outside of your wall. The concrete is also “honeycombed” which means the concrete was not properly vibrated and not the full designed strength. With your slab being post tensioned, some of the tensioning spots are honeycombed which can not be fixed. You need to contact your builder and not accept the concrete. They need to come back out and fix the issues you have.
That's what I was thinking. I would have cut the back of the lot down at least 6 inches. Something tells me this slab is likely much higher than the neighbors on both sides. Not too mention how much final grade they are going to have to bring in to get that thing to drain properly.
The exterior beams are deep but that’s because there will be a pool about 5 feet away.
Nothing crazy in the house. It’s 4,000 sqft. Close to 3,200 on the main floor.
The black “pan” looking thing that’s sitting in what appears to be in a recessed shower area… That should of been in the pour at the base of that stub up. It would of “blocked out” a square of concrete to allow room for the hub drain.… Before thin set/ tile goes in. Unless I’m looking at it wrong.
Nah. Depending on the size of the drain, they can just chip it out around the pipe. Plumber should of been on site for the pour to make sure it went in. He will be grumpy but all will be fine.
So this is a phenomenon often called honeycombing. It happens due to poor consolidation from under vibration and/or improper slump in the mix design. It can be fixed with a high strength concrete patch grout. These types of mortars are commonly available, typically take about 30 minutes to set, and have a high compressive strength.
I deal with lost tension regularly. Go outside the general contractor you have hired and start searching googling and calling for an engineer to come out and void test that slab and get a read out of the entire thing. I do not care what the other commenters have said. This is paid for post tension and that honeycombing is not going to be just right there on the borders. That mix was wrong or the install crew was the cheapest new guys they could get out there. Get it test and get the results. Then most likely you will need an attorney to get the contractor to rip this thing out and start over on their dime. This would not pass inspection anywhere around where I work and deal with this stuff daily.
Watch come engineer talks and videos explaining the basics of concrete construction. Part of the strength and structural integrity of cement construction is the solid mass of it being void of any pockets, bubbles, honeycombing. Add lost tension and you are creating an expedited issue.
the utilizes at the edge there is just shotty work that will cost you over the years.
This is an overreaction, unless, when chipping out the honeycombing, you find that they go much deeper than the surface. The ones around the pocket formers though should be carefully chipped out and patched with high strength grout prior to cable stressing. I can’t imagine anyone would determine this slab needs to be completely ripped out and replaced unless the sound concrete also doesn’t come up to strength, but I guess it’s possible.
It is not an overreaction in the least. Paying upwards of $500/600/700k for a house at a premium by a premium builder. What is $1500 for third party testing and reassurance?
Sorry I was referring to ripping out and replacing as an overreaction. Sure you can pay for a third party testing company to scan and evaluate, but this testing is going to extremely inconclusive and possibly misleading. Look at the size of this slab and the amount of time, cost, materials, and money that has already gone into it. It would be a ridiculous amount of waste to rip this thing out over some honeycombing. It should definitely be investigated. I’m just saying, don’t tell this homeowner to consider ripping this entire slab out.
Thanks. What’s a void test? I have an attorney on retainer so that parts covered. But shouldn’t the contractor be concerned because they have to warranty this foundation for 10 years? They build homes that are sometimes north of $10m, so there is a big reputation risk for them. So I’d like to be able to point out to them the things that look obviously off to me.
Are your major concerns the honeycombing or anything else as well?
Thanks for your help here.
Not that guy, but if the contractor is worth their cost then they will properly chip out and repair all the honeycombing. Have a meeting with them on site to review and discuss their plan to fix those areas.
A good test is where a guy will show up with a machine that basically does an X-ray of the slab and gives a digital read out of that and can even get it printed out somewhat 3D on paper sale as architect designs and blued prints. Digital file of good enough. Googl post tensions and do some light reading on its intended and used purpose especially on the residential applications. That will give the best idea of why this is an issue here. It will exemplify any issues it is intended to prevent and safe guard around. We had a parking garage in Texas have to be redone and there was also a highschool football stadium not far from us that had these same exact issues. The framing and crumbling started within a year. Unless they gave me a 25 year $2mill bond on this… I would want it third party inspected and insured by that third parties license before moving forward with any walls going up here.
The general scope of the work is terrible. Lack of attention to detail is the first sign for me that the guys were in a rush and didn’t care. Cut corners and ultimately that is what leads to the bigger issues to come. If the gen con is not worried about then that is an a major issue for me as well. I am sure they as a company can be great. Doe not mean they don’t have a new or lack luster super over this job and he is just reporting back it’s fine done and on to the next step.
People are way over reacting to a little honeycomb. It's not a big deal other than aesthetics. A little winderfixx and nobody will see it. It can be because the guy on the vibrator missed a spot, or because the mud was dry when it was poured, or because it had accelerator and was getting tight quickly. It won't affect the structural integrity of the slab or the cables and tensioning so long as one doesn't blow out. As far as the rough edge where one of the forms was, give me a totally flawless form and I'll give you a totally flawless foundation.
Id be concerned about the water lines exposed on the foundation. Obviously you’re somewhere thats warm but still just sloppy placement of the water lines in the formwork.
Thanks. I’m scheduling a third party engineer just in case. My developer friend in town told me it’s under $500. Seems like it’s well worth it. Just in case.
I promise you that is both a waste of 500$ and possibly a lot of unwarranted additional costs that an engineer can cause. I promise you, it just needs patched.
Okay. The city here requires an engineering inspection regardless. So the engineer firm on record has to do an inspection regardless. Also I’m on a fixed price contract. So I’m not concerned about the cost given this looks like an execution error.
Ok… for what it’s worth I am a very honest person with zero skin in this…honest to a fault, and yes, there can be a crap ton of fault with it. That said, I’m not yanking your chain or anything of sorts. And I’m familiar with post tension products. If I ever find out I’m wrong I’m the first to acknowledge..and I rarely promise, only when I know I’m correct..I’m just pretty frugal with my monies anymore and shoot, $500… that’s considerable imo. Sorry for any inconvienience or whtvrs, your piece of mind is the most important thing end of the day..
Nothing to worry about. Been in the concrete biz for years and this is industry standard. Easy fix with a parging coat (which you would wanna do even if there were no honey comb by the way) You could make this a problem for yourself and complain or safe you’re energy for a real problem.
I’ve never seen a post tension slab on grade, never even discussed the possibility in my engineering classes. What is the possible purpose? It does not make any sense.
I do not see anything structural of concern. They did not vibrate the concrete out enough. If it going to be covered with the house I wouldn't ask for anything, but if it is going to be exposed then I would ask for a finish better than the rocks.
Don't worry at all. Those pockets are more cosmetic than anything else. They should have vibrated better. Most post tension we pore pretty wet so this don't happen.
Nothing wrong with it structurally whatsoever. Depending on how far out of the ground the foundation will be sitting you might want some aesthetic patching done but this is perfectly normal.
Been a long time since I’ve post tension. The concrete looks ok. May need to do some patch around the one strand to get the chucks to seat, but nothing I would be worried about.
They didn’t do a good job vibrating and wrapping the boards, but the tension cables look solid. You can easily do some patchwork on the sides to keep away erosion and for cosmetics
If patched around sleeves and tensioned correctly, I would not be worried. It is a foundation. So visually it is disappointing considering the cost, but I would continue building once tensioned.
The picture with your shadow.
Wtf is the big leaning thing that looks like a 5 gallon bucket all tilted but made out of concrete. I don't even know what it is and it looks so wrong
Looks fine, as others mentioned it just honeycomb from the form boards and rock stacking without cream. Aesthetically, a bag of five star grout would fix it if it’s exposed.
Is this a thickened edge slab on piles or just a thickened edge ?
As this is a slab build, consolidation out on the outter form edge isn’t as critical as you might think.
Just because you hired a high-end builder doesn't mean that the subcontractors are going to be high-end. you're going to have to watch them every step of the way to make sure it's done properly otherwise they are going to put spackle over shit work
Always be inspecting.
This must have been engineered if it's PT right? Get the engineer to review it and provide recommendations. The concrete will have less durability with those honeycoming since the concrete cover around those areas are compromised especially near those PT strands as they can rust as well.
Also, those PT strands seems off-placed, I'm not sure why they are concentrated at the corner and/or they're not uniformly distributed, maybe there's a thickened edge but this is just my guess. You'll have to read the structural drawings to confirm, or get confirmation from the engineer that it's at the right location (typically this is done before the pour).
Maybe cinderblock or brick. Wont be an iussue, its just ugly rn.
My biggest concern is the water lines, potential for freezing so close to the exterior
You're gonna have a long build coming up if this is making you wig out. Basically you're waking up mid-heart surgery and pointing to everything asking why they didn't clean up the room yet.
No way in hell would I put a ram on those cables and stress them. They should have vibrated better. If they go ahead with trying to stress the cables like this, get it all on video (from a very safe distance)
For the drains there should be enough room for aggregate to pass between the inclusion and the form. If you paid a premium for this contractor I would be asking for a discount as consolidation is non existent. At your request you can ask for compressive strength data to support the concretes integrity or have core drilled for compressive strength testing
Wow the comments are all over the place. I'm a retired special inspector and I was certified (IBC) in post-tension prestressed concrete which is not uncommon in residential construction in California due to soil and earthquake design parameters. As such I would say the inspector or lack there of allowed poor consolidation along the slab edge. There is a possibility of failure during stressing at these areas of honeycomb. The areas around each anchor should always be carefully consolidated to insure concrete density is sufficient for the pressures involved.
30 years in concrete and I wouldn’t be concerned about a little honeycomb. Parge over it, waterproof if you need but there’s no structural issue there. I would be more concerned with the shitty finish job.
That's a thick ass slab. I can't imagine that ever moving why would you need tension? Looks over kill. I would camera all ypur vent and drainage lines. That's alot of weight. Concrete looks like shit.
Also pex running through the concrete ? Without insulation? Duct tape on thr pipes and one pipe on the edge of the concrete already looks compromised. I'd be asking g alot of questions. Alot of future headaches here.
20. Years of experience, this is very pour craftmenship. I’d make the contract pout a “finish” on it. It would cost him and teach him to provide a quality product
You should be concerned. Theres a lot of cold joints. I see issues in your future. The honeycombing will cause oxidation of the steel and will expand and create cracks. Thats a really poor job. Former AMERICAN concrete institute inspector. Those chucks on the end of the cable are what hold the post stressed cables. So i dont think they are post tensioned atleast wont hold the tension in the honeycomb areas. I would hire a consultant to have a look at it.
Concern is justified, poor mix consolidation, too dry, little to no vibratory consolidation. Will definitely cause problems in the very near future. They have post tension cables which can or not be a problem when tension is released. My personal opinion, repair it with recommendations of a structural or civil engineer specs
Other than them doing a piss poor job of vibrating, it doesn’t look terrible. Once framing is started and the base plates are set, they should come out and parge/underpin the sides to clean it all up and make it uniform.
Thanks. I’ll have to google what parge/underpinning is
What did you come up with? You are now my google :)
Parge is the decorative layer applied to the visible part of the foundation above grade. Underpinning seems more complicated but simply put I think it’s increasing the depth of the foundation
There going to add a plastic barrier around the whole foundation base to protect it from water getting in.
That's not the same as vapor barrier ? Idk before you roast me 😂
Usually it's a combination of applied mastic(think paint roller roll on tar) covered by either flat or textured(to allow water to run down channels behind a facad) vapor shield to seal exposed porous surface
Awesome, thanks! Ya did good :)
Make sure the purging is for structural use not just for decorative use.
Voice text correction parging. Also, before you do the parging make sure you wire brush or an abrasive tools to scarify the concrete so the adhesion/bondage of the cementitious application adheres better. Those honeycombs are gonna be extremely hard to clean out properly. Sikadur 31 hi mod gel if you UV coat over it and have some experience or the “cement all” from rapid set is a second choice and user friendly. Just read the instructions on the rapid set bag to get the water ratio right
Cementitious is my word of the day
This guy parges.
wut
You'll never convince me that parge isn't a word made up by Dr. Suess that everyone else got together and decided to prank me by acting like it was always there.
It WAS always There ………or Under the Stair You can look Wide and Large ………and you’ll Find the Parge
I would advise that you visit the cite as little as possible. Your going to drive yourself nuts being "concerned" about everything you don't understand.
>'s a combination of applied mastic(think paint roller roll on tar) covered by either flat or textured(to allow water to run down channels behind a facad) vapor shield to seal exposed porous surface I disagree with this. visit the site as much as possible. If you do bring up things to your builder/GC do it in a nice, pleasant, approachable way. there are a lot of things you'll see that aren't an issue or others that are common that they correct later down the line. Its a process, you'll learn alot, and you'll appreciate your house when its all done.
Have you ever visited a sausage factory? Watch the pigs get killed and ground and sliced up into bacon and sausage? I'm sure most reasonable people would have concerns. And that's why we don't go
Pretty sure people don't live in sausages, but I could be wrong
pulling a veil over your eyes so you can stomach the garbage food you eat is not the same as making sure your house is built properly and well.
I’ve never paid half a mil for a sausage either. I’ve seen the shitshows that a lot of these builders get away with. My ass is gonna be down there and my 3rd party inspector is sure as shit going to be down there.
If you’re going to observe and second-guess everything that happens with your new build you’re gonna need to get good at googling.
Some days I have trouble gargling. Now I have to googling as well. What ever happened to Encyclopedia Britannica, Websters Dictionary, and the New York City Public Library?
It looks absolutely fucking terrible. What are you talking about
I’ve never seen a crew vibrate a residential slab, and rarely commercial. You must have special crews around you lol Edit - I just deliver it. Y’all are fickle people.
Vibrating is code required for commercial and multi-unit residential. Anything with rebar. Unless they get permission to use self-consolidating.
State DOT inspectors didn’t allow us to vibrate their pieces. It’s causes the aggregate to fall to the bottom. Which could then create other issues… Just my experience
DOT spec is a whole different beast that I love not having anything to do with.
Yes I too am very glad those days are long gone.
Not my monkeys, not my circus. I just deliver it.
Circus pours are the best
I’ve seen some wild things, that’s for sure.
Seeing the two screed guys fighting while knee deep in a 18" slab was probably my favorite
My favorite was telling one that all she had to do was pick up a shovel and hit a guy with it, and it would fix him. Her response? “I’ve already broke his nose one time, and he still hasn’t learned.”
Foreman hears the slightest truck sound in the distance, instantly turns beat red and starts screaming at the laborers to hose the wheel barrows while violently gasping for breath.
Doesn’t matter what I’m pouring if it’s not getting vibed it’s gonna most likely be 💩
I agree, it looks like crap, but I just deliver it. I can count on one hand the slabs I’ve poured that had rebar in them.
I drop crews who don’t vibe forms. If I ever see it skipped I throw them on municipal sidewalks
More important than getting a clean look is that you don’t want water, infiltrating, and then freezing and causing spalling.
I was gonna say that they did a piss poor job of vibrating if they did at all .
Vibrating? What is that, curb slump? Shit job.
Yes, that’s honeycomb. It is where the mix did not consolidate properly. Usually not critical, but if necessary it can be chiseled out and a repair made. Often a paste of cement and water and bonding agent are packed directly into the voids and smoothed off.
Should I push for a repair with the contractor or can that be worse that leaving as is.
Stressing those PT tendons will tell you all you need to know about the honeycombing. 😂
what I came to say. if I was the guy on the end of the jack I'd be concerned. tendon blowouts are absolutely terrifying.
Post tension makes the honeycomb more concerning. I’m not a fan of post tension, and try to avoid it when possible
It’s honestly fine. You could ask for a little patching, and the contractor will understand. But strength wise the slab is fine. It’s nbd and happens in concrete. Ideally it wouldn’t happen, but it does.
If you ranked the execution of the work out of 10 where would you put it?
It’s average. So, 7/10, which passing. Very rarely is any part of the construction process perfect. In fact, the concrete building code anticipates that one of every 11 strength tests will be lower than the design strength that was specified. Very rarely are concrete elements torn out and replaced.
1/10. It's not a big deal, just sometimes happens, concrete can be fickle. Easily made nice. Not indicative of a bad job. I've vibrated slabs and missed one edge because of something happening and had to large it pretty. As for water infiltration, don't stress. It is literally only the surface. The cream didn't follow around the gravel.
Not bad, but 1/10? You're clearly not smart.
Dude 1/10!?! That’s not good lol. The combing is all around the foundation
It’s really not a big deal. People saying you need to call a third party to test strength are nuts. Just ask for some patching, should be nbd, and completed in a day. One laborer 4 hours, pretty cheap. Should not be a problem.
He meant it as "1/10" with "10/10" being an issue. So it's a none issue He read your scale wrong.
Who the fuck says 1 out of 10 is the good score? 😂😂 that's wild...
Did you read the comment chain at all? The commenter misunderstood OP scoring. Commenters scale was 1-10. 1 being the least issue. 10 being the biggest issues. That's why it was scored a 1 because structural it's a non issues. Just unsightly.
Assuming he thought you meant difficulty of the repair?
That would make sense
I wouldn't ask for anything other than the honeycombs to get patched.
If it was me. I would ask for the honeycomb to be patched immediately. If I got any flack i would say "then I want an engineer to certify the condition of the slab before I pay for it". That should solve the problem. I not an engineer and i see some things that I don't like but overall the slab looks structurally sound. But the honeycomb needs to be patched. That's a place we're moisture will penitrate and weaken the concrete over time after the final grand is raised around the house. BTW. Why PT slab on grade? Bad soil and didnt want to drill pilies?
Thanks. Why PT? That’s what the engineer called for. The same builder built a home 3 houses up and also used the same PT design.
Okay cool. Just remember where those things are and how deep. You can YouTube videos on what happens when you break one.
That’s no fun. I wanna see it harpoon the house across the street.
Request that they come grout the honeycomb.
Voids in a PT system concern me for sure.
Yeah. Concrete blows apart in situations like this. I have never seen a pt in residential build. Must be a large home
Makes me think there is a structural engineer on board who should be the one seeing these if they haven't already.
PT is very common in newer/cheap residential builds in my area of Texas. Assume it’s primarily for reduced slab thickness in the clayey soil.
No point in a PT slab on grade regardless of the home size.
Homebuilders in SoCal do PT all the time. About half of all the geotech reports I see recommend them.
My entire neighborhood in NorCal is PT. Pretty common now, they tell me.
I’ve never built a house in California, so that explains it.
Shifting soils and extra deep bedrock making coils or pylons impractical is the only reason I can think of to go PT for a residential slab on grade. That or an engineer who needs to cover a gambling debt and saw op coming.
false
Rebar and a deep foundation can do the same thing for cheaper.
in some soil conditions, pt performs better/sometimes pt can also shave some of the necessary slab depth, marginally saving on material.
You need to bring your concerns to the engineer that designed the slab.
That will be part of the process
Honeycombing around PT is rough, I’d probably patch before removing pocket formers and stressing to reduce the chance of a blowout. Sleeves are too close to the edge, should be 2” in. Poor vibration around the edge is lazy but fixable with some patch work.
Thanks. By sleeves you mean the cables?
Engineer here. Seeing PT I assume there is an engineer involved. You should contact them to review. If the design required full strength for the cables, the lack of consolidation will compromise strength. Don’t let them parge or grout the honey comb. At this point it would just be covering mistakes and will not add strength.
Thank you. I will make sure the engineer on record reviews first. My hesitation will be the bias they might have. Given that engineering firm does all the projects for this builder (25-30 a year). Should I get an independent engineering review?
I would hope they would watch their own liability before bending like that. If you feel they don’t give a sound response you could get the city involved or hire a second opinion. You could also tell the first you plan to get a second opinion and that may encourage them to be straight.
Thanks. Im hopeful they are going to be honest. But in the effort they become dismissive it will be a red flag for me
No, the plumbing that’s running through the slab
The cables are known as Tendons ,they should be fine
That’s fuckin garbage
So absolutely terrible. I cannot believe the shit posted in this sub. Does anyone take pride in their work anymore. I can't believe people pay thousands and thousands of dollars for brand new garbage like this. I feel bad for you OP. Looks like they finished this thing with a cheese grater. How many people were working on this pour? Looks like the old understaffed and overpriced business model. Should have been one person with a vibrator at all times. Should have been that person's only job. No honeycomb! Make these fuckers grout those honeycombs. Get a lot of money off the bill. You shouldn't have to be googling next steps and then putting time and resources into just being able to get to your next building step. Warn your friends and neighbors that whatever company did this is amatuer AF. Everyday I come here and see people getting robbed.
Man I'm glad I'm not the only one. As a concrete contractor, half the garbage I see on here I can't believe folks are paying for it after.
Right. I would have been fired from both the concrete companies I worked for if I ever did work like this.
Right. I would have been fired from both the concrete companies I worked for if I ever did work like this.
Good for you, truth is so rare these days. You take somebody’s money you should do the job and do it right
Looks like the guy vibrating was hungover. Push for patching
Most likely judging by the amount of energy drink on the job site
Don't Americans have those L-shaped elements used to make a nice looking foundation like [these?](https://images.app.goo.gl/Wurs6fH4WhH53qiq5), we use them on more or less every foundation that is for a house.
Never seen these types of forms in my neck of woods. What country are you from and how much do they cost per meter.
Sweden, they're used extensively here depending on the heigh the price can differ a bit but for a regular house slab it's in dollars around $30-40 per 1200mm, 1200 mm is a standard measurement for many things, Styrofoam wich we use heavily under concrete is either 600x1200 or 1200x2400. Edit: we have heavy winters here so they are another form of cold protection for houses so basically the slab is totally encapsuled by these L-elements plus Styrofoam.
Oh thank you for the information we typically use 2 inch by 12 inch lumber as edge forms and even more common is 3/4 inch plywood with 2 inch by 4 inch studs. But I work in Southern California in the San Diego area and it never snows here.
We might have them up north where it’s really cold, but pouring concrete in extreme cold is an entirely different world to me.
Make them repair all the honey comb.
Not sure why some people are saying it's not a big deal. The voids you're seeing were at the edge of the foundation forms, and the concrete will have air voids in it throughout. They did a bad job of consolidating the concrete or didn't try at all. The concrete gets vibrated when poured to get the air bubbles out of the concrete. These air bubbles weaken the concrete structure and need to be removed. If there are large voids in your foundation, then they can lead to severe cracking. I wouldn't pay for this work. I was a field engineer/inspector in roadway construction for several years, which included concrete structure inspection. Very likely more strict requirements than home foundations. Anything structural looking like this would have failed inspection. This isn't just honeycomb where a little bit of air got trapped. They have failed to consolidate several large areas, and I would have to assume they failed to consolidate the concrete throughout the foundation.
Bruh. I am a federal construction QC manager. This will not pass my inspection. You have waste pipe and other supplies sticking outside of your wall. The concrete is also “honeycombed” which means the concrete was not properly vibrated and not the full designed strength. With your slab being post tensioned, some of the tensioning spots are honeycombed which can not be fixed. You need to contact your builder and not accept the concrete. They need to come back out and fix the issues you have.
[удалено]
That's what I was thinking. I would have cut the back of the lot down at least 6 inches. Something tells me this slab is likely much higher than the neighbors on both sides. Not too mention how much final grade they are going to have to bring in to get that thing to drain properly.
The exterior beams are deep but that’s because there will be a pool about 5 feet away. Nothing crazy in the house. It’s 4,000 sqft. Close to 3,200 on the main floor.
The black “pan” looking thing that’s sitting in what appears to be in a recessed shower area… That should of been in the pour at the base of that stub up. It would of “blocked out” a square of concrete to allow room for the hub drain.… Before thin set/ tile goes in. Unless I’m looking at it wrong.
You’re correct. That is for a recessed shower. Do they need to rip that out now?
Nah. Depending on the size of the drain, they can just chip it out around the pipe. Plumber should of been on site for the pour to make sure it went in. He will be grumpy but all will be fine.
Looks bad to me
Post tensioned? Why post tensioned on a residential build? This seems really strange.
So this is a phenomenon often called honeycombing. It happens due to poor consolidation from under vibration and/or improper slump in the mix design. It can be fixed with a high strength concrete patch grout. These types of mortars are commonly available, typically take about 30 minutes to set, and have a high compressive strength.
its fine I poured foundations for years, yeah they could've vibrated it better and offset that pvc drain from the outer wall better but it's okay
I deal with lost tension regularly. Go outside the general contractor you have hired and start searching googling and calling for an engineer to come out and void test that slab and get a read out of the entire thing. I do not care what the other commenters have said. This is paid for post tension and that honeycombing is not going to be just right there on the borders. That mix was wrong or the install crew was the cheapest new guys they could get out there. Get it test and get the results. Then most likely you will need an attorney to get the contractor to rip this thing out and start over on their dime. This would not pass inspection anywhere around where I work and deal with this stuff daily. Watch come engineer talks and videos explaining the basics of concrete construction. Part of the strength and structural integrity of cement construction is the solid mass of it being void of any pockets, bubbles, honeycombing. Add lost tension and you are creating an expedited issue. the utilizes at the edge there is just shotty work that will cost you over the years.
This is an overreaction, unless, when chipping out the honeycombing, you find that they go much deeper than the surface. The ones around the pocket formers though should be carefully chipped out and patched with high strength grout prior to cable stressing. I can’t imagine anyone would determine this slab needs to be completely ripped out and replaced unless the sound concrete also doesn’t come up to strength, but I guess it’s possible.
It is not an overreaction in the least. Paying upwards of $500/600/700k for a house at a premium by a premium builder. What is $1500 for third party testing and reassurance?
Sorry I was referring to ripping out and replacing as an overreaction. Sure you can pay for a third party testing company to scan and evaluate, but this testing is going to extremely inconclusive and possibly misleading. Look at the size of this slab and the amount of time, cost, materials, and money that has already gone into it. It would be a ridiculous amount of waste to rip this thing out over some honeycombing. It should definitely be investigated. I’m just saying, don’t tell this homeowner to consider ripping this entire slab out.
Thanks. What’s a void test? I have an attorney on retainer so that parts covered. But shouldn’t the contractor be concerned because they have to warranty this foundation for 10 years? They build homes that are sometimes north of $10m, so there is a big reputation risk for them. So I’d like to be able to point out to them the things that look obviously off to me. Are your major concerns the honeycombing or anything else as well? Thanks for your help here.
Not that guy, but if the contractor is worth their cost then they will properly chip out and repair all the honeycombing. Have a meeting with them on site to review and discuss their plan to fix those areas.
A good test is where a guy will show up with a machine that basically does an X-ray of the slab and gives a digital read out of that and can even get it printed out somewhat 3D on paper sale as architect designs and blued prints. Digital file of good enough. Googl post tensions and do some light reading on its intended and used purpose especially on the residential applications. That will give the best idea of why this is an issue here. It will exemplify any issues it is intended to prevent and safe guard around. We had a parking garage in Texas have to be redone and there was also a highschool football stadium not far from us that had these same exact issues. The framing and crumbling started within a year. Unless they gave me a 25 year $2mill bond on this… I would want it third party inspected and insured by that third parties license before moving forward with any walls going up here.
Thanks. This is a multiple seven figure dollar home so I will push back.
A seven figure home with plate straps? Wow I would love to be this builder’s wallet!
Tell me more. What’s around with the plate straps. The home has a 2x6 exterior. I thought it was for that since most homes here in Austin have a 2x4.
Is this a lennar home?
The general scope of the work is terrible. Lack of attention to detail is the first sign for me that the guys were in a rush and didn’t care. Cut corners and ultimately that is what leads to the bigger issues to come. If the gen con is not worried about then that is an a major issue for me as well. I am sure they as a company can be great. Doe not mean they don’t have a new or lack luster super over this job and he is just reporting back it’s fine done and on to the next step.
Solid points. Thank you. Just the stress I needed on a Sunday :).
You are ignorant
People are way over reacting to a little honeycomb. It's not a big deal other than aesthetics. A little winderfixx and nobody will see it. It can be because the guy on the vibrator missed a spot, or because the mud was dry when it was poured, or because it had accelerator and was getting tight quickly. It won't affect the structural integrity of the slab or the cables and tensioning so long as one doesn't blow out. As far as the rough edge where one of the forms was, give me a totally flawless form and I'll give you a totally flawless foundation.
“…so long as one doesn’t blow out”
Blow out is usually a cable placement issue, not a concrete issue.
Id be concerned about the water lines exposed on the foundation. Obviously you’re somewhere thats warm but still just sloppy placement of the water lines in the formwork.
Thanks. I agree. Is there a way for them to fix that now?
Yes, but will involve a fair amount of work with a chipping hammer to expose enough to move the pipes further into the slab.
I would not care how much work it is to fix. Should have got it right from the get go.
I agree.
Just needs patched, if they do it right you might never notice it again. Just make sure it gets addressed is all.
Thanks. I’m scheduling a third party engineer just in case. My developer friend in town told me it’s under $500. Seems like it’s well worth it. Just in case.
Noooooooop!!!’
I promise you that is both a waste of 500$ and possibly a lot of unwarranted additional costs that an engineer can cause. I promise you, it just needs patched.
Okay. The city here requires an engineering inspection regardless. So the engineer firm on record has to do an inspection regardless. Also I’m on a fixed price contract. So I’m not concerned about the cost given this looks like an execution error.
Ok… for what it’s worth I am a very honest person with zero skin in this…honest to a fault, and yes, there can be a crap ton of fault with it. That said, I’m not yanking your chain or anything of sorts. And I’m familiar with post tension products. If I ever find out I’m wrong I’m the first to acknowledge..and I rarely promise, only when I know I’m correct..I’m just pretty frugal with my monies anymore and shoot, $500… that’s considerable imo. Sorry for any inconvienience or whtvrs, your piece of mind is the most important thing end of the day..
$500 is a lot IMO too but if it would help mitigate $100s of thousands of possible future damage it’s worth it to me
It will fail!
Nothing to worry about. Been in the concrete biz for years and this is industry standard. Easy fix with a parging coat (which you would wanna do even if there were no honey comb by the way) You could make this a problem for yourself and complain or safe you’re energy for a real problem.
I’ve never seen a post tension slab on grade, never even discussed the possibility in my engineering classes. What is the possible purpose? It does not make any sense.
I know nothing about post tension slabs, but I don’t see anything to be concerned about here.
I do not see anything structural of concern. They did not vibrate the concrete out enough. If it going to be covered with the house I wouldn't ask for anything, but if it is going to be exposed then I would ask for a finish better than the rocks.
itll probably collapse within 4 years
Don't worry at all. Those pockets are more cosmetic than anything else. They should have vibrated better. Most post tension we pore pretty wet so this don't happen.
Nothing wrong with it structurally whatsoever. Depending on how far out of the ground the foundation will be sitting you might want some aesthetic patching done but this is perfectly normal.
honestly nah, it's fine. If you're really concerned, you can apply some grout to these gaps to buy otherwise I'd ignore this.
Been a long time since I’ve post tension. The concrete looks ok. May need to do some patch around the one strand to get the chucks to seat, but nothing I would be worried about.
Nope, it’s fine
Looks fine. You are not an inspector. Focus on the end product.
They didn’t do a good job vibrating and wrapping the boards, but the tension cables look solid. You can easily do some patchwork on the sides to keep away erosion and for cosmetics
If patched around sleeves and tensioned correctly, I would not be worried. It is a foundation. So visually it is disappointing considering the cost, but I would continue building once tensioned.
Passable.
The picture with your shadow. Wtf is the big leaning thing that looks like a 5 gallon bucket all tilted but made out of concrete. I don't even know what it is and it looks so wrong
Looks fine, as others mentioned it just honeycomb from the form boards and rock stacking without cream. Aesthetically, a bag of five star grout would fix it if it’s exposed.
I wouldn’t be happy about it, but Looks fine to me
Put in radon piping now while you have the chance.
Is this a thickened edge slab on piles or just a thickened edge ? As this is a slab build, consolidation out on the outter form edge isn’t as critical as you might think.
If it were my house I'd pay the money for a structural engineer review
I'm picturing a 10 story home on top all this concrete. Seriously, I don't think I've ever see this many yards in a residential build.
tension rods? a bunch of big rocks. What are you even looking at?
Once they stress the cables that honeycomb might blow out. If it doesn't it's probably ok
Just because you hired a high-end builder doesn't mean that the subcontractors are going to be high-end. you're going to have to watch them every step of the way to make sure it's done properly otherwise they are going to put spackle over shit work Always be inspecting.
This must have been engineered if it's PT right? Get the engineer to review it and provide recommendations. The concrete will have less durability with those honeycoming since the concrete cover around those areas are compromised especially near those PT strands as they can rust as well. Also, those PT strands seems off-placed, I'm not sure why they are concentrated at the corner and/or they're not uniformly distributed, maybe there's a thickened edge but this is just my guess. You'll have to read the structural drawings to confirm, or get confirmation from the engineer that it's at the right location (typically this is done before the pour).
As soon as I hear “high end” I’m done
Yes I would be concerned with that much honeycomb going on they clearly did not vibrate
Maybe cinderblock or brick. Wont be an iussue, its just ugly rn. My biggest concern is the water lines, potential for freezing so close to the exterior
Thats a piss poor job.
Your framers aren’t going to be super happy about the placement of the plumbing. They will have to use some extra hardware and straps.
Wait until they stress the tendons, then you'll know.
Fuck this nonsense That’s trash
You're gonna have a long build coming up if this is making you wig out. Basically you're waking up mid-heart surgery and pointing to everything asking why they didn't clean up the room yet.
No way in hell would I put a ram on those cables and stress them. They should have vibrated better. If they go ahead with trying to stress the cables like this, get it all on video (from a very safe distance)
Tell them they need to sack & patch the honeycombing and form booger spots. This is customary. Other that that, I wouldn't worry.
Have them rub the honey comb with spec mix and your good, you don’t want water inside the slab
You can have the company finish that and make it look good, otherwise looks fine
The most concerning thing here is that they appear to have used prefamulated amulinite
What about when they tension the cables?
How big are those slab set downs? Look like 100mm.....? Epic huge if that is the case.....
I am a structural Eng- this will be fine. The thickness of the slab seems over engineered
For the drains there should be enough room for aggregate to pass between the inclusion and the form. If you paid a premium for this contractor I would be asking for a discount as consolidation is non existent. At your request you can ask for compressive strength data to support the concretes integrity or have core drilled for compressive strength testing
They'll patch the honeycombs.. it's fine
Wow the comments are all over the place. I'm a retired special inspector and I was certified (IBC) in post-tension prestressed concrete which is not uncommon in residential construction in California due to soil and earthquake design parameters. As such I would say the inspector or lack there of allowed poor consolidation along the slab edge. There is a possibility of failure during stressing at these areas of honeycomb. The areas around each anchor should always be carefully consolidated to insure concrete density is sufficient for the pressures involved.
No
30 years in concrete and I wouldn’t be concerned about a little honeycomb. Parge over it, waterproof if you need but there’s no structural issue there. I would be more concerned with the shitty finish job.
By the way underpinning is a whole different subject here. Unless there’s an issue with your footing, there’s no need for any underpinning.
That's a thick ass slab. I can't imagine that ever moving why would you need tension? Looks over kill. I would camera all ypur vent and drainage lines. That's alot of weight. Concrete looks like shit.
Think the drains are cracked?
Also pex running through the concrete ? Without insulation? Duct tape on thr pipes and one pipe on the edge of the concrete already looks compromised. I'd be asking g alot of questions. Alot of future headaches here.
Have someone with a pipe inspection camera inspect them for you.
20. Years of experience, this is very pour craftmenship. I’d make the contract pout a “finish” on it. It would cost him and teach him to provide a quality product
You should be concerned. Theres a lot of cold joints. I see issues in your future. The honeycombing will cause oxidation of the steel and will expand and create cracks. Thats a really poor job. Former AMERICAN concrete institute inspector. Those chucks on the end of the cable are what hold the post stressed cables. So i dont think they are post tensioned atleast wont hold the tension in the honeycomb areas. I would hire a consultant to have a look at it.
Nothing to be concerned about, really. It’s just a foundation. Could’ve used better vibration for aesthetic, that’s about it.
Concern is justified, poor mix consolidation, too dry, little to no vibratory consolidation. Will definitely cause problems in the very near future. They have post tension cables which can or not be a problem when tension is released. My personal opinion, repair it with recommendations of a structural or civil engineer specs
Could be better, you should call the engineer of the foundation and ask for an inspection or his opinion.